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chrismoose
06-05-2004, 05:08 PM
Hi jin,

You seem to be quite up to speed on the whole painter thing, so i thought i'd ask if you could tell me about the time line of Painter: what came first, what came next, its name number etc, right up to Painter 8 from corel.

The reasons are: is there 2 different progs out there, 1 called painter classic, the other procreate painter classic 2? hence the questions!

The other Q is: I have a new intuos2 and it came with procreate painter classic and in the help splash screen it says its procreate painter classic 2.0.0. Sooo, can this intous bundled software be upgraded to Painter 7 and/or Painter 8? Corel says:

"Upgrade eligibility

Adobe Photoshop & Painter Classic customers now qualify for the upgrade to Corel Painter 8:
Registered users of Adobe Photoshop 5.5 and higher, Fractal Design Painter 4 and 5, MetaCreations Painter 5 - 6 and all versions of Corel Painter and Painter Classic are eligible to upgrade to Corel Painter 8. Trial versions, Adobe Photoshop LE, Adobe Photoshop Elements and Adobe Photoshop Elements 2 are not eligible."
but is this the same software(painter classic) that comes with the tablet(procreate painter classic)?

But no mention about upgrading to Painter 7. Ofcourse we know that companies only talk about current products.

I hope I've made some sense.

regards
chris.

Jinbrown
06-05-2004, 08:00 PM
Hi chrismoose101,

Here's the history of Painter's owners, versions, and release dates as I know them (all versions that are not named "Painter Classic" are full Painter versions providing all of the features, brush technology, and capabilites current at the time those versions were released):

Fractal Design Painter 1 - about 1991

Fractal Design Painter 2 (don't know the release date)

Fractal Design Painter 3 (don't know the release date)

Fractal Design Painter 4 - 1995

Fractal Design and another company merged and became Metacreations.

Metacreations Painter 5 - 1997

Metacreations Painter Classic 1, based on Painter 5 - 1998

Metacreations Painter 6 - 1999

Painter 7 development began.

Corel purchased all Painter products from Metacreations, along with Bryce and KPT.

Corel released the third and final patch for Painter 6, Painter 6.1 - 2000

The original and continuing Painter Developers Mark Zimmer (actually Painters's inventor), Tom Hedges, and John Derry formed their own company and contracted to work with Corel to complete development of Painter 7.

Corel formed a division named procreate to handle all of their graphics programs.

procreate Painter 7 - 2001

procreate Painter Classic 2, based on Painter 7 - 2002

Painter Developer John Derry continued working with Corel to develop Painter 8.

Corel disbanded their procreate division and went back to handling their graphics programs under their corporate name, Corel.

Corel Painter 8 - 2003

Corel released the Painter 8.1 patch - 2003

The only full Painter version available to purchase and for which Corel provides support is the current version, Painter 8 (and with the patch installed, Painter 8.1).

I believe your procreate Painter Classic 2 software qualifies you for upgrade pricing to Painter 8 based on what the Corel site says, but if you want to make sure, I'd suggest giving Corel Customer Service a call at:

1-800-772-6735

If you're not in the U.S., here's the page where you can find contact phone numbers outside of North America:

http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel2/Section/Content&sid=1047022946165&cid=1047022946873


If you haven't seen this already, it's kind of fun.. and amazing.. to look at.

Listing of All Brush Categories and All Brush Variants in the Default Brush Libraries for full Painter Versions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and Painter 8:

http://w3.poporo.ne.jp/%7Edddo/oekakienv/Painters/diffbrush/indexe.html

chrismoose
06-05-2004, 08:44 PM
Jin,

thanks for that extensive reply! its good to know what we're putting our money into.

Chris is just fine, ta.

Yeah, I thought i could find Painter 7 to get as a cheaper upgrade instead of Painter 8. but we'll see.

Excellent! You can be assured of more questions to come!:thumbsup:

In fact..... Are you familiar with a 3dluvr painter lesson done by Even michelsen (which is good) but he says hes using the painter from the intuos box, he says to use the just add water brush in his apple tut, but i cant find it. is there some update or extra brush set i can put into painter classic to lift it up?

The only reason i'm not asking there is i'm not registered there.

cheers,
chris

chrismoose
06-05-2004, 08:51 PM
Hey again!!

I've just seen the link and there is a classic version 1 which has more/different brushes, eg palette knives, more erasers etc.

any way to get a free upgrade?;)

regards,
chris

Jinbrown
06-06-2004, 03:57 AM
chrismoose101,

The Just Add Water variant is found in all of the more recent full Painter versions and was also in Painter Classic 1.

It was left out of Painter Classic 2 but you can use the Liquid's Smear or Smudge variants instead. They're not quite the same but they do smear pixels around which is what the Just Add Water variant does.

Extra brushes and art materials cannot be added to Painter Classic 2 as they could be with Painter Classic 1 and with all full Painter versions.

Nope, no free upgrade to any Painter version, Classic or full Painter versions, unless Santa brings it in December or you have a birthday coming soon and some generous family members.

If you mean free upgrade to Painter Classic 1, it would be, technically, a downgrade since that's the earlier version of Painter Classic, based on Painter 5 and without Layers, Water Color Layers, or Liquid Ink Layers.

Better just bite the bullet and buy Painter 8, or try eBay for Painter 7 (be sure you get the full, legal, registerable software if you buy it from eBay).

XEngineer
07-20-2004, 07:44 AM
Maybe you know this....

I'm currently taking a class that uses Painter, and the teacher still uses Painter 6 because it has separate erasers for hard lines and for brushes like for watercolor. He said that the later Corel Painter versions have taken this feature out. So, I was wondering if Painter Classic has that feature, and whether there were any indications that it was going to be in Painter 9. Do you happen to know?

Thanks!

Jinbrown
07-20-2004, 01:42 PM
Maybe you know this....

I'm currently taking a class that uses Painter, and the teacher still uses Painter 6 because it has separate erasers for hard lines and for brushes like for watercolor. He said that the later Corel Painter versions have taken this feature out. So, I was wondering if Painter Classic has that feature, and whether there were any indications that it was going to be in Painter 9. Do you happen to know?

Thanks!

I don't know who your teacher is or what he means about the Erasers and I'm not sure I know what you and your teacher mean by "this feature" or "this feature" being taken out. You're talking about more than one brush category, Erasers and Water Color and you're also talking about possibly 3 or 4 full Painter versions, plus two Painter Classic versions. I can only assume you're referring to procreate Painter Classic 2 since that's the Painter Classic version currently bundled with Wacom tablets. It's based on the full version, Painter 7.

Comparing the Erasers variant settings in Painter 6.1 (only 4 Erasers variants in Painter 6.1) and Painter 8.1:

Bleach - exactly the same
Darkener - exactly the same
Eraser - exactly the same
Flat Eraser - exactly the same

In Painter 8, there are more Erasers variants, some are the same variant but in different sizes, for a total around 25 variants.

In Painter 6, the Water Colors category has one Eraser variant that can be used while the invisible Wet Layer is still wet (the Water Color paint is still wet):

Wet Eraser

In Painter 7 and Painter 8, the Water Color category uses entirely new technology and the brush variants don't work the same, or look the same, as Painter 6 Water Colors (or Painter Classic 1 Water Colors as it was based on the full version, Painter 5). In both Painter 7 and Painter 8, there are several Water Color Eraser variants:

Eraser Diffuse
Eraser Dry
Eraser Grainy
Eraser Salt
Eraser Wet

In both Metacreations Painter Classic 1 and procreate Painter Classic 2, the only brush controls available are Size, Opacity, Grain, and the Freehand and Straight Lines options.

Metacreations Painter Classic 1 has several Erasers variants:

Ultrafine Eraser
Small Eraser
Medium Eraser
Flat Eraser
Ultrafine Bleach
Small Bleach
Medium Bleach
Fat Bleach
Flat Eraser

Metacreations Painter Classic 1 has one Water Color Eraser variant:

Wet Eraser

procreate Painter Classic 2 has one Erasers variant:

Erasers' Eraser

procreate Painter Classic 2 has one Water Color Eraser:

Eraser Dry

In other words, all full Painter versions and both Painter Classic versions have Erasers category Eraser variants and Water Color category Eraser variants, some more, some less.

If you're using a full Painter version and you don't find a default Eraser variant you like, change almost any other brush variant into an eraser. To do this:

Go to the Painter 8 Brush Creator's General section or the Painter 6 and Painter 7 Brush Controls palette's General section and change the Method to Eraser, then change the Subcategory to whatever works best for you. The Subcategory option automatically displayed when you change the Method to Eraser may be the best one, but don't be afraid to change it, then do some testing to be sure you like it.


Any questions about Painter 9 will have to be answered by Corel and to my knowledge they have not made any announcements yet, even about when Painter 9 will be released let alone what it will contain. The Painter 9 Beta testers are bound by the Non Disclosure Agreement they signed not to discuss anything they learn during Beta testing, during the Beta testing period and any time after Painter 9 is released. Only after it's released will we all be able to discuss what we learn using the released software.

I hope some of this was helpful. If you can clarify what you and your teacher mean by "this feature" being taken out, maybe I can answer your question better.

XEngineer
07-20-2004, 05:26 PM
Thanks Jinny. Obviously I'm ignorant about Painter brushes. I'm just about to start using it.

What you said made sense. The specific example he used was that he could sketch with a brush. Then watercolor over it, I believe on the same layer. Then go back and erase just the sketched brush lines without affecting the watercolor. Or erase just the watercolor without erasing the sketch. He said he couldn't do this in Painters 7+. But, it sounds like you can if you set the brush controls properly. So, I'll have to give it a try once I get a copy of the full Painter.

I might actually be volunteering for the Corel Painter 9 premiere at SIGGRAPH on August 9. So, I'm hoping to see what Ryan Church can do with it.

Thanks again for the excellent, detailed, explanation!:thumbsup:

Jinbrown
07-20-2004, 06:23 PM
XEngineer,

I understand what it's about now.

Let me try to make this as simple as possible:

In Painter versions 6 and earlier (and that includes Metacreations Painter Classic 2 since it was based on the full version Painter 5), Water Color was painted on the Invisible Wet Layer at the Canvas level. While the Water Color remained wet, we could paint or draw on the Canvas using non Water Color variants ("dry brushes") without disturbing the Water Color paint. Likewise, we could paint with Water Color without disturbing anything drawn or painted on the Canvas using non Water Color brush variants, or "dry brushes".

As soon as the Water Color paint was dried, it could be altered with non Water Color or "dry brushes", smudged, smeared, blended, erased with non-Water Color eraser variants, etc.

Water Color was dried using two methods:

Unchecking Canvas > Wet Paint (it was checked while we painted on the Invisible Wet Layer with Water Color variants)

Clicking Canvas > Dry

A lot of Painter 6 users liked working this way and especially liked the old Water Color technology and it's brush variants, which Painter Developer John Derry described as "simplistic" relative to the new (at that time) Painter 7 Water Color technology and it's much more complex brush variants.

With Painter 7 and the new Water Color technology, came Water Color Layers, visible and listed in the Layers palette along with other Layers and Shapes. Now Water Color could only be painted on Water Color Layers, and non Water Color variants could not be used in Water Color Layers. The obvious result was that there was no need to be concerned about Water Color brushstrokes and non Water Color brushstrokes, made with "dry brushes" ever disturbing each other. They were "physically" separated, automatically. Water Color Eraser variants could be used on the Water Color Layer and non Water Color Erasers could be used on other Layers and the Canvas but, like other variants Water Color Erasers could not be used on other kinds of Layers or the Canvas and non Water Color Erasers could not be used on Water Color Layers.

The new Water Color technology introduced with Painter 7 continues to be available in Painter 8 and, in addition, introduced with Painter 8 are the new Digital Water Colors that are very similar to the old Water Colors but they don't need the old Invisible Wet Layer. They work on Default Layers (regular Layers), they also work on the Canvas, and they can be used with other non Water Color brushes, or "dry brushes".

So between Painter 6, 7, and 8 there are three brush categories that use the words "water color":

Old Water Colors (Painter 6 and earlier, and Metacreations Painter Classic 1)

New Water Colors (Painter 7 and Painter 8 and procreate Painter Classic 2)

Digital Water Colors (Painter 8)

There's a lot more to say about the new Painter 7 and Painter 8 Water Color technology as it allows us to do things we could never do before. These brush variants are not easy to learn but they're fascinating and artists who've stuck with it have done some lovely work, more true to traditional watercolors in lots of ways. It's said that it helps if one comes from a traditional watercolor background and I expect that's true.

If you'd like to learn more about Painter 7 and Painter 8 Water Color technology, and Painter 8 Digital Water Color, John Derry has written Visual Guides for both that you can download on the Corel site at:

John Derry's Visual Guides for Water Color, Liquid Ink, Tinting, and Digital Water Color - download in PDF format (http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel2/Products/Content&pid=1047022702185&cid=1047022737328)

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