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Jozvex
06-18-2004, 05:37 AM
I compiled an Unofficial FAQ (34 questions) with all the information presented so far into a web page, but it appears we cant attach files to this thread!

:surprised

erilaz
06-18-2004, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by Jozvex
I compiled an Unofficial FAQ (34 questions) with all the information presented so far into a web page, but it appears we cant attach files to this thread!

:surprised

If it's a web page, can't you just post a link instead? Or is it an offline html document?

Jozvex
06-18-2004, 07:14 AM
Well yes I would just post a link but unfortunately the hosts of my website are currently changing servers and so I can't upload anything!

Hehe, it's only an 8k zip file too!! I could email it to someone to upload to their site if they want me to.

:hmm:

============
Edit: Someone is going to host it for me, I'll post it soon.

;)

Quizboy
06-18-2004, 08:34 AM
jozvex - send it through to xinxangproductions@hotmail.com and i'll put it up...

Jozvex
06-18-2004, 08:49 AM
ATTENTION!!:

Ehem. In order to spare the nice people of Animation Mentor from repeating themselves many times over now that lots more people are joining the thread, I've compiled an Unofficial AM FAQ so that people don't have to read through all 17 pages of the thread to get all the latest info.

I did not answer any of the questions myself, they are copied and pasted straight from this thread and were answered by AM. Well, maybe I fixed some typos hehe.

There are currently 34 answered questions in this unofficial FAQ, and it is linked at the bottom of this post.

It's setup with links etc so hopefully it's pretty easy to navigate, it's the not the prettiest thing you've ever seen though.

And the questions are in the order in which they were answered in this thread, if you want me to group them based on topic then I suppose I could do that!

Lastly, if AM disagrees with me having made this FAQ then obviously I'll take it down!!

http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/am_faq.html

:thumbsup:

PS. Thankyou to my friend who is hosting the file, my website is non-editable at the moment and attachments seem to have been disabled for this thread??

PPS. Hehe thanks for the offer Quizboy!!

lestdog
06-18-2004, 09:01 AM
nice job jozvex! maybe Jason would be willing to edit his orginal post and paste this in there, that way everyone can easily refer to it and/or tell others to go to the front page for more info.

http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/am_faq.html

Jozvex
06-18-2004, 09:05 AM
Well me and Jason go waaaaaay back. Err, at least 2 weeks that is. So if AM approve of the FAQ then I'm sure I can convince Jason to edit his post.

Besides I bought his book so he owes me big time.

Or something.

:p

lestdog
06-18-2004, 09:22 AM
I got the book as well... So that makes 2 he owes big time!:thumbsup:

and Ill just keep reposting this everytime I blab my big mouth on this thread..

FAQs on animation master people!
http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/am_faq.html

FUG1T1VE
06-18-2004, 09:31 AM
way to go Jozvex. Im sure the folks at AM would appreciate it, that way they dont have to go through the entire thread and search for questions the members posted, It will make things easier for them. But at one time they will go through to read the exitement this has generated. I saw the AM link posted in other sites so they are pretty busy. I was going to do something similar but I fell asleep too soon and the best thing was to repost the FAQ.
:thumbsup:

Hexodam
06-18-2004, 09:53 AM
noticed a typo in the faq ;)
kinks. I contantly look at it on IE

I was kinda disapointed that a price range was not mentioned there, does anyone know when prices will be anounced?

status quo
06-18-2004, 10:31 AM
Hi there,

STATUSQUO:
Thanks for the feedback.
The idea/concept we are putting together, is that through online video classes (where professionals get in detail about how we approach animation), through personal feedback from mentors to students (doing different animation passes and working with them interactively/personally through webcams), along with a good number of other tools (standard forums, chats, guest speakers, live Q&A with opportunity to ask live questions, and more)...we are hoping to create a learning environment that will help the students focus 100% in animation and learn more directly and efficiently because professionals will be working with them personally without having to worry about distance. Me being from Spain, it was a big issue to come to the US to learn animation from people that knew what they were doing, so I think this will help a lot of people all over the world.

THOMAS:
Thanks for letting us know about "Opera". We'll let the technical people working with us know. Our goal is to have the School working on every platform and every web browser that is able to work with Flash.


Carlos.

i think i'd let others test the water first.

:thumbsup:

Quizboy
06-18-2004, 10:42 AM
Good Job Jozvex! Rock the Education Revolution On! :thumbsup:

Pipen
06-18-2004, 11:48 AM
AM seems really nice, and acording to this forum there are many ppl who want to become a AM Student. I was thinking about it, since the limited amount of seats not everyone will get a seat. What about releasing literature (in this case the videos) on DVD so ppl can still learn from the PROs, of course they can't get help and feedback from the AMs. But somewhere in this thread I read that AM is going to be like a community, what about people that purchase the literature on DVD get access to the community, for exampel forums and such and be able to talk with the real students and get help from them. At least I think that helping others improves your own skill. Of course those who purchased it on DVD don't get the personal help from the AM as the real student does..

Maybe a worthless idea, but it was what I came up with last night :)

(My english suck, I know :()

ninjadodo
06-18-2004, 03:38 PM
Just one question really, on top of what's already been said...

In terms of live sessions, how are you planning to deal with time differences?

powerwave3d
06-18-2004, 04:26 PM
Wow, that's a very interesting question Ninja Dodo.

What happens if your mentor is sleeping when you are awake, etc... Guess there'll be mentors from all over the world...

alexandrecollac
06-18-2004, 04:51 PM
good work Jozvex, itll realy help

one more question, when i finish my studies in AM ill still have acess to the forums???

hamu73
06-18-2004, 06:13 PM
would you suggest this instead of an college degree???

or what is the better way to do this before or after you attended college???

so go first to college and then go to AM or the other way round??

what way is better or how do you get more of it??

Alienkissed
06-18-2004, 08:41 PM
this is awesome!

i can't wait to dig into this!
thanks for posting the info guys!

lestdog
06-18-2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by hamu73
would you suggest this instead of an college degree???

or what is the better way to do this before or after you attended college???

so go first to college and then go to AM or the other way round??

what way is better or how do you get more of it??

Thats a tough one, because the details on AM are still a bit vauge. Peoples opinions will vary as well on this too, but I personally believe that nothing beats good old fasioned class room instruction. especially now since we have good college courses for this stuff now. The work coming out of ringling art school for example is amazing. Also for me, My B.F.A. has come in handy from time to time.

But I am not negative towards AM by any means, If I have the cash for it, I'm in big time. You should no doubt get some first class knowlege from these guys. I always say that no one can teach you anything unless they have done it themselves and all these guys at AM are doing it. You've got an all-star cast there.

I would say if you have a chance to go to a fine school like ringling for example, do that, they will keep you on track because its not a learn at your own pace situtation. I think most of the people who will ultimately end up taking advantage of the AM program will be people who are already working in the industry and want to take their skills to the next level and people who are working in a different industry and want to learn CG animation. I'm not sure how many kids will be able to convince thier parents that they want to go to college online.

This is just my opinion though.

alexandrecollac
06-18-2004, 10:06 PM
lestdog- i agree with u when u say that nothing beats a tradicional College, but more about the life experience and the contacts that u make there.
The question of hamu73 is really good, take my example, im cousing architecture, in the half of the 10 semester course and i realized that i dont like it, and im about to give up everything to try to be a 3d animator. Then they came with this idea of AM that allow me to study ANIMATION here in my contry, continue my studies in the college(just to get the certificate), and then apply to a MFA in 3D Animation. So it is very important to know what level i can reach in AM.

it sounds like a dramatic movie :cry: .


Originally posted by hamu7
would you suggest this instead of an college degree???

or what is the better way to do this before or after you attended college???

so go first to college and then go to AM or the other way round??

what way is better or how do you get more of it??

animboom
06-19-2004, 01:00 AM
First of all. Thank you to everyone for your feedback and inquiries. It helps us better gage what is important for people.

First things first: Jozvex Thanks for compiling the FAQ. Some things have changed a bit and a new FAQ will be coming soon.

Thanks for your patience. For people who are antsy I must say that we only announced AM 2 weeks ago from today (Friday June 18th). So please be patient as things take time and our MAIN priority right now is getting things solid for our FALL 2004 launch date.

Our main programmer just had a baby so he's been celebrating this exciting journey. We will get back to the people who signed on to our mailing list some time next week. The response has been overwhelming in a good way. Thanks again.

LONG POST AHEAD:
Some answers to your questions and concerns:

1. HOW MUCH TIME AND HOW WILL MENTORS ACTUALLY HELP YOU LEARN WHEN THEY HAVE FULL TIME JOBS? We are asking for a commitment from our mentors that is roughly equal to someone teaching a class at an art school. However, you must remember that AM classes are pre-recorded video lectures so this time with the mentors will be directly spent on helping make YOUR work better.

2. HOW MANY STUDENTS AND HOW CAN I BE FIRST? We are not concerned with shoving as many people into the program to get your money. It is our priority to focus on giving our full attention to your learning and progression. Students will be accepted on a first come first serve basis.

3. PUT IT ON DVD!!! It's important to know #1 that although the classes are an important part of AM the whole experience lies in the interaction with people. So if you have just a class you will only have the frame of a car, but with the whole experience you will have the engine and you will learn and drive much faster than if you were to push the car Flinstone's style ;)

Again, AM was designed with the question "If we were to start over again how would we want to learn?" I would NOT want to learn through JUST a book or JUST a class. i would want to learn from experienced professionals, and with someone who personally helps me taylor my work and make it better. Books are definitely companions to our program (the illusion of life) is a must have, luckily it's in print again.

4. WHO IS AM FOR? Again, AM is for anyone looking for a dedicated learning experience both cost effecient and time effecient. It's also for people looking to push their learning to the next level and at a flexible pace.

5. DOES AM REPLACE ART SCHOOL? It depends on who you ask. AM is based on what we think would be helpful for someone learning from the ground up. We plan to offer a short film studies course that will also compliment the learning experience (it will be added in our 2nd phase).

6. COULD SOMEONE JUST TAKE AM AND BE READY FOR A JOB WITHIN 1 YEAR? That is honestly our hopes. It all depends on the students level of dedication. But that's what we've designed it for. With the short film study course (which is in development and will be added in our second phase) the school would be a year and a half at a fraction of what an art school would cost in a year and a half.

7. SHOULD I TAKE LOCAL COLLEGE CLASSES OR FULL TIME COLLEGE AND AM AT THE SAME TIME? Local classes on figure drawing are definitely recommended. However, going to art school FULL TIME would require your full time attention, in our personal opinion. AM is really designed as a complete character animation program.

8. DEGREES? CERTIFICATES???? I can only say that we are looking into these issues. Bentagon, I understand that you need a degree in your country for security reasons. That's the exact reason we are looking into it. Although we strongly believe that your portfollio and attitude are #1 keys to getting a job in this industry and with AM being full of professional animators the Networking possibilites are very high.

9. LIVE LESSSONS AND TIME DIFFERENCES? Live Q and A will have to happen on the professionals time. We thought long and hard about this and we have decided to record the live q and a's and offer them for students to view if they miss them. We can not fit to everyone's schedule but we're trying to make it so that no one feels "left out."


Although there hasn't been an offical "mailing list faq" I would hope that answering on this forum (and others) that people feel more like they are dealing with a real person instead of just a mass mailer. We want to make the experience more personable.

Thanks a ton.

-BOOOM

jschleifer
06-19-2004, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by kassun

I was down there when Jason Schleifer was interviewed on the radio show, what an inspirition. Jason How's the puppy (Milo) doing?:)


that was a blast doing the radio show.. the puppy's good, but he's now a year and a half old! and psycho. :)

effilang
06-19-2004, 02:57 AM
Sounds fantastic to me....:buttrock:


*looks round . . . . . . . . . > > > > >

Still nothing said about the price... :shrug: at least a little tip...?

Give us a range. . . .5 thousand? 10 thousand? . . *plzz..its killing me.. I gotta know.

Will we be able to pay in pereodical installments ?

Plzz......for the love of god :cry: . Just those two questions. . . *begs... :hmm:

mmkelly011881
06-19-2004, 04:52 AM
keep on rampin it up! :buttrock:

3dSnail
06-19-2004, 05:31 AM
Thanks for the FAQ :bowdown: Mr Beck :bowdown:

Just a question to anyone, how much is it for art course?
and what would be a fraction of that? :shrug:

Cheers

Jozvex
06-19-2004, 07:57 AM
I've updated the FAQ again. I added the latest topics Bobby just posted, edited some old topics as requested, fixed lots of typos and added some links to the top!

Also, just to be clear, I'm not part of the AM team, hehe. I won't be able to answer PM's on stuff that isn't covered in the unofficial FAQ.

;)

http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/am_faq.html

Imagine how much interest AM will get once students start showing what they've learnt!! Yikes!

lanedaughtry
06-19-2004, 08:41 AM
I'm very excited about this.

Unless the tuition is ridiculous I plan on attending the first available course I can.

As an artist I like the approach you guys are taking and as an instructor I really want to support this sort of community building and colaboration.

-L

Bentagon
06-19-2004, 09:00 AM
I was wondering about this first come first serve basis you were talking about. Wouldn't that mean that if there are 3 times as much applicants as people who actually get in, some people have to wait 2 years? Or when someone can only get the money after a year, or only has the idea of doing this after a year, they have to wait even longer?

- Bentagon

Jozvex
06-19-2004, 09:22 AM
Well as far as I know, each level is only around 3 months long. So if tons of people want to start in level A, every three months a new batch of students should get it as the previous ones move on.

I think.

itamar3D
06-20-2004, 03:22 AM
Im in too, this will be a great investment for all animators

itamar3D
06-20-2004, 03:54 AM
To the mentors
Here in Brazil we do not have a college, we learn with friends and InterNet the art of animation. If the cost will be 1.500, here this cost will be 5.500. This goes to be my chance to learn animation correctly. We are many anciosos, I find that I go to sell my car! hahahaha

Thanx very much

http://itamar.fer.sites.uol.com.br/demoreel/reel_2004C_itamar.avi (http://itamar.fer.sites.uol.com.br/demoreel/reel_2004C_itamar.avi)

right click save target as......

dork vodar
06-20-2004, 07:32 PM
hi guys,

@Jason Osipa
glad to hear from you here! I have reviewed your book and I'm currently working on making some facial animation with a test character. where is Miscy? :) very good book.

the AM project, for sure, seems really really great. I hope that I will have the opportunity to be the first french student! hehe. but, the main question is: how much?

I have a day job, and one little baby to come... but if I have to work 24/24 7/7 to learn animation from mentors, I will do it.
see you there guys, perhaps

animboom
06-20-2004, 08:17 PM
Jozvex is correct. We will take new students every 3 months.

As far as international pricing goes we'll have to figure this out. It may not happen right away. But we'll look into it.

-Boom

Bentagon
06-20-2004, 08:20 PM
great! If I don't get into supinfocom in a year and a half, I'm all yours :D

- Bentagon

clockwerkz
06-20-2004, 09:59 PM
Hiya Boom,

Quick question: I really hate to over-analyze everything you post and stuff, but when you say first come first serve, are you referring to the initial request on the website to list one's e-mail expressing interest?

Secondly, about this whole business with the pricing. So far, you guys have put together an incredible presentation on the site, and it is crystal clear that you all mean business. So whatever you decide in pricing will be as equally thought out and fair, and I have no reservations or worries about that. In my opinion, this is the equivalent of being a high school football player and having NFL players critique your performance, and somehow boost your level of play. So as someone put it, rock on dude. And thanks again.

cW

erilaz
06-21-2004, 12:03 AM
This will be exactly the injection I need. I only have pockets of time during the week, so I can never go and do short courses due to work commitments. The good thing is, it should fall under my work's education payment plan! Yeehaw. :D

powerdan
06-21-2004, 12:22 AM
WOW! :buttrock: ,

I Like this, I hope to be able to pay it. it is seen very good.

I dont live in the USA ( i live in Venezuela) and i believe that this
looks like a great opportunity to learn MORE!!!! :drool:


I'm in (if i can :cry: ).

Guildon321
06-21-2004, 03:10 AM
Hah heres something you probably havnt been asked. Sence its over the computer how old do you have to be to do this.

BrennanClarkson
06-21-2004, 03:13 AM
Ok, I have a question,

This sounds way to good to be true so I just want to verify something, I am an intermediate at modeling but haven't really gotten into animation at all.

So Would I still be able to sign up or would you need someone already working in the industry?

Again very exciting for me, I've been looking for something like this for a while now.

keenasmustard
06-21-2004, 03:23 AM
"As far as international pricing goes we'll have to figure this out. It may not happen right away. But we'll look into it."

Bobby, before I jump to the wrong conclusion and have a heart attack, could you please clarify that statement for us "internationals"? Does that mean that the international pricing won't be figured out right away, and therefore we won't be in the first group to go through?

By the way, I hope you don't mind, but I posted a link to Jozvex's FAQ page for you in the AWN forum.

Can't wait to be a part of this! :bounce:

alexandrecollac
06-21-2004, 03:43 AM
BrennanClarkson - this Faq posted by Jozvex will explain it better for you. but answering your question, no, you dont need to be working in the industry and either to know how to animate, AM goes from 4 diferent levels of skill, from the basics(very important) to the most advanced. http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/am_faq.html

I have another question, it is for anyone who is actually working in animation in US, modeling, or other cg related job. how far can i get without having a certificate, and what usually the industries ask for you to get employed???

tnx

mayakindaguy
06-21-2004, 05:50 AM
Questions:

1) For those in school and wanting to take time off specifically for AM, would AM hold off current student loans from entering repayment because it is considered an educational instituion. Not exactly sure how that all pans out, but would be interested in this specific topic.

2) I know that AM is scheduled to begin in Fall, but was wondering if there was a set date to open that could be officially announced.

Oh, forgot to add the question mark to my questions so here ?

emilioG
06-21-2004, 07:13 AM
you do realize that there is a difference between internet school and real school I hope.
yes there is a big difference. These guys and gals are in the trenches all day. The teachers you have in school sometimes aren't, sometimes are. But none of this is relevant, what is relevant is the fact that you can keep learning here.
If you are in school, just add this as another level of schooling. Not better or worse, that will be up to you, just MORE learning.

lestdog
06-21-2004, 08:17 AM
yes there is a big difference. These guys and gals are in the trenches all day. The teachers you have in school sometimes aren't, sometimes are. But none of this is relevant, what is relevant is the fact that you can keep learning here.
If you are in school, just add this as another level of schooling. Not better or worse, that will be up to you, just MORE learning.
I would think alot of this depends on the individual, I don't always agree that self paced learning situation will benifit most students. Self paced stuff usually starts out like this.. "Yeah! I'm so motivated I'm going to knock out that work and extra credit in a week! whoo hoo!" to "oh I'm so excited about this, I wish I had more time to just finish the work" to " Oh well I'll get to it eventually "

A good art school will keep you on track and make you opperate as if under a deadline.

But you are right the real thing that seperated AM from the rest is the WHO. Who is teaching the course and needless to say, AM has the best of the best lined up.

Larry_g1s
06-21-2004, 08:27 AM
Man this looks, and sounds amazing! Getting closer and closer to making my dream of an animator real! :thumbsup:

Hexodam
06-21-2004, 11:44 AM
Just another comment on the price

The prices for schools in the US is just insanely high and if the prices for AM will be like that I doubt many international students will go to the school. Schools in Europe for example recieve governmental funding as well as intuition fees, and if AM will charge like they do the number of people applying from the US will just skyrocket.

I just see it you are damned if you do and damned if you dont :(

alexandrecollac
06-21-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Hexodam
The prices for schools in the US is just insanely high and if the prices for AM will be like that I doubt many international students will go to the school.

There is one big diference in a traditional College, for example Academy of Art, they told me that my cost per year was going to be something about $30.000 what for me is R$90.000, even if the AM prices were the same itll be an investiment only for one year, and with no food, housing and other expenses.

i did,t realyze that the questions need to be marked, so im posting my last questions again.

1)It is for anyone who is actually working in animation in US, modeling, or other cg related job. how far can i get without having a certificate, and what usually the industries ask for you to get employed???

clockwerkz
06-21-2004, 01:04 PM
1)It is for anyone who is actually working in animation in US, modeling, or other cg related job. how far can i get without having a certificate, and what usually the industries ask for you to get employed???

It's not for anyone who's already in the industry. It's for anyone who has a passion for animation, and wants to learn more. So if that's you, then sign up. :-)

If you want to work in the industry, then you'll want a very good demo reel. Certificates, degrees, etc are nice and all, but the demo reel is your ticket into a company.

That is how I look at this.

cW

Hexodam
06-21-2004, 01:05 PM
There is one big diference in a traditional College, for example Academy of Art, they told me that my cost per year was going to be something about $30.000 what for me is R$90.000, even if the AM prices were the same itll be an investiment only for one year, and with no food, housing and other expenses.

i did,t realyze that the questions need to be marked, so im posting my last questions again.

1)It is for anyone who is actually working in animation in US, modeling, or other cg related job. how far can i get without having a certificate, and what usually the industries ask for you to get employed???like I said it depends, if I compare the 30.000 dollars you gave me here ( no idea what you mean by R$:P) to probably the best cg school in England, one of the best in Europe as well, http://media.bournemouth.ac.uk/.

Since I'm from Iceland a year in that one you are talking about costs about 2.160.000isk per year, and if I was lucky enough to get the EU prices for Bournemouth it would cost me little over 100.000isk per year, still even if I dont get the EU price it costs around 1.000.000isk which is still hell of alot less than 2.16 million. And to go on, a very good Animation School in denmark called Animation Workshop costs about 216.000isk per year. I know for example some people who have gone to Fullsail in the US for two years and that total package has cost them over 7 million isk and I dont think even one thought it was worth the money, just the experiance of going was worth it ;)

hamu73
06-21-2004, 01:07 PM
so we should do traditional art study as well ...and if you want to go to college and do an animation degree would it be better to do the AM course before or after the college...which one first???...where do you get more out of it??? would it be better to do the AM after college cause the mentors at AM have much more knowledge and experience than the school lecturers??

(sorry kind of posted this question before but not really got an answer on this....but thanks to those who answered)

Bentagon
06-21-2004, 01:43 PM
well, that depends I think. If you're trying to get in one of the big schools (ringling, bournemouth, supinfocom, vfs,...), and you get in, just do it and you'll get good in animation nd other things such as storywriting, cinematography, etc. After that, if you still want to improve animation, you can do the courses. If you don't get in, it's probably because of your portfolio, drawing skills, or language skills. This gives you one year to get to know the language better, draw better, and animate better, by applying to AM. When the first 2 improve, and the last one improves a lot (that's what we seem to get with AM), you'll probably get in next year.

And the teachers also depend on what school you want to attend. If you look at some reels/shorts of supinfocom or ringling, you see they have amazing tutors too.

- Bentagon

alexandrecollac
06-21-2004, 05:01 PM
Hexodam - comparing US dollar with Real(R$) - if u spend $1,00 in a candy in the US for example it will cost almost the same in R$ here in Brazil.

clockwerkz - sorry i think i was not clear with that question, what i want is an opinion from the ones who are are actualy working with animation and have more experience and know what the industry will require from me and if only this AM couse is enougth to get a good job in animation. Just trying to take the best choice for me. (poor english,sorry)

Bentagon - You are right when u say that in a good school u learn lots of other things, and so it worth your money, but this background i can get here in my country although the background in animation i can only get in other country(there are no schools of animation here in Brazil) so with this course in AM i can learn animation from the bests here in my house and study the other subjects like storywriting and cinematography in my own contry, what is cheaper for me.

wow, im changing the subject of this post, sorry, lets talk about what AM can make to us and to the world.

furryspork
06-21-2004, 11:50 PM
I've been following all the news about AM since it was first announced, and I think it's a great idea and a wonderful opportunity for anyone who wants to learn animation from the pros.

I would love to take AM classes, but I'm going into my second year at Ringling and I know that I won't be able to take AM classes during the school year. With that in mind, I have a couple of questions:
1) I know that the school is supposed to be a 1-year long program, but would it be possible to begin taking AM courses during the summer, and then complete the remainder of the courses after I graduate? (for example, taking Level A next summer, Level B the following summer, etc.)

-or-

Would it be better just to wait until I graduate and then do the entire program, kinda like graduate school?

2) Since so many people seem to want to be in the first group of AM students, but only a limited number of people will get in, should I go ahead and apply in order to get put on a waiting list or something so that I will be able to reserve a spot for when I want to enroll?

alexandrecollac
06-22-2004, 12:48 AM
just another question.

1)There are going to be more people aplying than the number of vacancies. How are u going to select who will enter and who will have to wait??

erilaz
06-22-2004, 12:55 AM
just another question.

1)There are going to be more people aplying than the number of vacancies. How are u going to select who will enter and who will have to wait??
Impartial deathmatches. :D

effilang
06-22-2004, 02:03 AM
Well, i can only asume that this is when the First come First serve basis kicks into action . . . :scream:

Mr. Boom sir:buttrock: . . .will you be informing us eager folks anytime soon of the pricing range...?

ROUGHLY? . . . Boom sir :shrug:


S-n-i-F-F....:sad:

skelly6
06-22-2004, 04:42 AM
First off, hello everyone! Shawn Kelly here, and I think you guys might even be more excited about this project than I am! Ha! Actually that's impossible, but I have to say, it's been so inspirational to read all the encouraging posts!

Since I was here tooling around, I thought I'd jump in and clarify about this question. We will absolutely be accepting international students right from day one! One of the aspects of this project that we are most excited about is that there are no longer any geographical barriers for learning this stuff! Anyone with an internet connection can have the exact same chance to learn animation as the person living in LA... Exciting stuff!

As far as pricing goes, it'll be the same for everyone, as our costs are the same regardless of your location...

Anyway - thanks again for all the excitement, you guys!

shawn ;)

==================================
[QUOTE=keenasmustard]"As far as international pricing goes we'll have to figure this out. It may not happen right away. But we'll look into it."

Bobby, before I jump to the wrong conclusion and have a heart attack, could you please clarify that statement for us "internationals"? Does that mean that the international pricing won't be figured out right away, and therefore we won't be in the first group to go through?

skelly6
06-22-2004, 04:56 AM
Sorry, only professional ninja animators can sign up...

Ha! Just kidding! What would be the point of that?! We're here to help ANYONE learn! :)

While I think pros will certainly get a ton out of this program, it's definitely designed to fit anyone from the most novice beginner all the way to those of us who have been working for a while in the industry.

Signing up for our Level A (beginner) course will be perfect for those of you who have never animated a thing in your life...

And just as a side note... one of the most exciting parts about this whole process for me has been having the priveledge to hear what all these animation ninjas from around the world think about animation! And not that I think I'm the best animator around or anything (FAR from it!), but I've been doing this for a little while now, and the AM "beginner" classes have taught me SO MUCH about things I really felt like I had a complete grasp of! ...Just to sit and listen to what Dylan Brown from Pixar says about overlap or what Matt Logue from Weta says about anticipation... Even just basic ideas like those have been amazing for me to listen to, and I've learned so much!

So for those of you out there who are pros, I think even our most beginning classses offer TONS of good stuff to hear... You never stop learning, right?

shawn ;)


======================================
Ok, I have a question,

This sounds way to good to be true so I just want to verify something, I am an intermediate at modeling but haven't really gotten into animation at all.

So Would I still be able to sign up or would you need someone already working in the industry?

Again very exciting for me, I've been looking for something like this for a while now.

skelly6
06-22-2004, 05:00 AM
[QUOTE=mayakindaguy]Questions:

1) For those in school and wanting to take time off specifically for AM, would AM hold off current student loans from entering repayment because it is considered an educational instituion. Not exactly sure how that all pans out, but would be interested in this specific topic.

One of the things we're ironing out over the next couple months is what types of financial aid services we'll be able to offer to our students. As we figure that stuff out, we should find out whether or not we would qualify as an institution that would delay your loan repayments...

2) I know that AM is scheduled to begin in Fall, but was wondering if there was a set date to open that could be officially announced.

I think Bobby already mentioned it, but right now we're looking to launch in Fall 2004!

skelly6
06-22-2004, 05:06 AM
1)It is for anyone who is actually working in animation in US, modeling, or other cg related job. how far can i get without having a certificate, and what usually the industries ask for you to get employed???
Being able to offer a degree is something we're still looking into, but as for getting a job as a professional animator in the US, this will be based almost entirely on your demo reel, and partly on your interview. A degree is nice, in that it shows that you had the dedecation/determination to achieve such a difficult goal, and will definitely never hurt you! However, it doesn't seem to be a large factor in getting jobs until you reach a supervisory or managerial role...

As such, at AM we're dedicated to helping you whip up the most kickass animation reel you can create, and less worried about other things.

If a degree is a goal of yours, AM would definitely make a great companion course to whatever school you would be enrolled in!

yo.

shawn ;)

skelly6
06-22-2004, 05:17 AM
Q1) I know that the school is supposed to be a 1-year long program, but would it be possible to begin taking AM courses during the summer, and then complete the remainder of the courses after I graduate? (for example, taking Level A next summer, Level B the following summer, etc.)

-or-

Would it be better just to wait until I graduate and then do the entire program, kinda like graduate school?
-----
Well, in a perfect world, taking the course all at once would probably be best, but we realize not everyone will be able to fit that into their schedules. We are planning to offer the ability to take the courses in chunks, but we haven't nailed down exactly what the maximum "away time" would be yet...


2) Since so many people seem to want to be in the first group of AM students, but only a limited number of people will get in, should I go ahead and apply in order to get put on a waiting list or something so that I will be able to reserve a spot for when I want to enroll?[/QUOTE]
People who enter their email address into our teaser trailer site will have priority for the launch registration. If you think you might want to get in on the first group, you should probably throw your email in there just in case!

You won't get any junk mail from us or anything, by the way... just a FAQ (coming soon) and priority registration ability...

shawn ;)

ps - How do you study so close to the beach? I think I'd miss half my classes!!! I would, at the very least, be spending a lot of time doing, uhhh.... "weight-shift observation reference" from atop a surfboard... :)

skelly6
06-22-2004, 05:19 AM
Sorry, everyone. I know you all want to know final prices, but with so many factors affecting what we'll have to charge, we're still pinning this down. We'll let you know as soon as we do!

shawn ;)
--------------------------------------------------------

Well, i can only asume that this is when the First come First serve basis kicks into action . . . :scream:

Mr. Boom sir:buttrock: . . .will you be informing us eager folks anytime soon of the pricing range...?

ROUGHLY? . . . Boom sir :shrug:


S-n-i-F-F....:sad:

chymx2
06-22-2004, 12:27 PM
Hi
Not really a question I guess. But just wanted to say earning a degree of some sort from this would be imortant for me. I need to get my company to help pay for tuition and that is the only way they will help is if it's undergrad or grad degree program....so I Will keep my fingers crossed :)

Thanks, it looks exciting

lestdog
06-22-2004, 12:48 PM
somewhere in this thread they said the were diligently looking into that. But I imagine it would take quite a while B4 this school can recieve an accreditation. I know that it took quite a few years B4 the art school I got my BFA in was accredited. You should look into exactly what your employer needs in order to recieve your funding. If all they need is some sort of completion certificate then you're probably Okay. If you need transferable credits leading up to a diploma I would say that AM not even being a recognized institution yet would not be a sure bet.

Opelfruits
06-22-2004, 12:53 PM
i'm not really that bothered if there is a qualification at the end or not, learning from the top pros is much more useful than a peice of paper.

mmkelly011881
06-22-2004, 02:51 PM
welcome to cgtalk shawn and thanks for the answers

keeping my fingers crossed that i check my email about open registration right when it comes out

question: shawn kelly, matt kelly... any "family" discount?? :)

itamar3D
06-22-2004, 03:45 PM
Sr. Kelly

I have one more question. Exemple, I'm participate of level A, and I stopped. Can I return for level B in the other month?



http://itamar.fer.sites.uol.com.br/Reel_2004C_Itamar.avi

right click > save target as...

Stychentyme
06-22-2004, 04:32 PM
I was wondering about the pacing of the courses.

From what I've read, it seems like you could complete the entire program sooner than the 1 year. Say, if someone starts at the beginner level, but then finds himself with more time to spend on the coursework, or just finds that he's advancing faster in knowledge than he thought, he could then go to the next level. You wouldn't have to wait for a pre-determined time to enter the next course, is that right?

How about the instructors? If they notice that a student is getting better faster, .... maybe they have latent talent they never knew existed, can the instructor advise the student in more advanced methods? Would he? Can levels of the course be skipped if your advancing faster than expected? Will the instructors be keeping their eyes out for the way the students are learning?

Not that I think I'm one of the "gifted" ones mind you, I'm just curious. :D

Thanks!

skelly6
06-22-2004, 05:55 PM
Yes, we're trying to set it up in a way that you can take a break between "semesters" if you like, but at this point we aren't sure how long that break could be...

Sr. Kelly

I have one more question. Exemple, I'm participate of level A, and I stopped. Can I return for level B in the other month?



http://itamar.fer.sites.uol.com.br/disco_virtual/Reel_2004C_Itamar.avi

right click > save target as...

abie1
06-22-2004, 06:08 PM
I haven't read the entire thread before making this comment, only b/c it's like TWENTY TWO PAGES right now so forgive me if I say something someone else already has. So far EVERYBODY that has posted, or the majority anyway, would love to enroll to this thing that includes me. However, all I saw was a hand full of these guys wanting to teach in comparison with the people who want to join in. And these guys all have jobs too and lives...are they really gonna be able to live up to what they are proposing...again I don't mean to dump a pen full of ink into this crystal clear glass of water, I'm one of the first in line that want to enroll, but you gotta admit, it seems a little far-fetched, even for these guys. :shrug: :hmm:

BarryRIT
06-22-2004, 07:25 PM
I haven't read the entire thread before making this comment, only b/c it's like TWENTY TWO PAGES right now so forgive me if I say something someone else already has. So far EVERYBODY that has posted, or the majority anyway, would love to enroll to this thing that includes me. However, all I saw was a hand full of these guys wanting to teach in comparison with the people who want to join in. And these guys all have jobs too and lives...are they really gonna be able to live up to what they are proposing...again I don't mean to dump a pen full of ink into this crystal clear glass of water, I'm one of the first in line that want to enroll, but you gotta admit, it seems a little far-fetched, even for these guys. :shrug: :hmm:
I dont mean to speak for the creators, but from what I have gathered, its doable from a combination of only having a limited number of students enrolled at a time + a healthy number of mentors working + only being able to post 1 new exercise to be critiqued a week. At least that is what I have gathered from all the posts so far.

clockwerkz
06-22-2004, 08:53 PM
I haven't read the entire thread before making this comment, only b/c it's like TWENTY TWO PAGES right now so forgive me if I say something someone else already has. So far EVERYBODY that has posted, or the majority anyway, would love to enroll to this thing that includes me. However, all I saw was a hand full of these guys wanting to teach in comparison with the people who want to join in. And these guys all have jobs too and lives...are they really gonna be able to live up to what they are proposing...again I don't mean to dump a pen full of ink into this crystal clear glass of water, I'm one of the first in line that want to enroll, but you gotta admit, it seems a little far-fetched, even for these guys. :shrug: :hmm:

It's my take on this that some of the people who will be mentoring already teach on their own. So it would seem that it'll be easier for them to work from home as opposed to driving to some school and teach. :)

Jozvex
06-22-2004, 10:45 PM
Just thought I'd post to say hi Shawn! And to tell the new people to read the unofficial FAQ that's linked in my sig! It answers like 40 questions including the "don't they have lives, can they do this?" question.

:thumbsup:

furryspork
06-23-2004, 12:52 AM
Hi Shawn!

How do I study?...I don't have transportation to the beach. It's so close...yet too far away to walk. :sad: It's probably a good thing since my grade goes down a whole letter for each class I miss. :argh:

I went to the lecture you and Delio gave at Ringling. You guys are awesome teachers. I can't wait to be a part of AM! :thumbsup:

Thanks for answering my first questions. I have one more:

I've already entered my email address at the teaser site, but when I get the notification of open enrollment, should I go ahead and register or should I wait until right before I want to start the class (which probably won't be until May or later)?

skelly6
06-23-2004, 05:37 AM
Hi Shawn!

I went to the lecture you and Delio gave at Ringling. You guys are awesome teachers. I can't wait to be a part of AM! :thumbsup:

Thanks for answering my first questions. I have one more:

I've already entered my email address at the teaser site, but when I get the notification of open enrollment, should I go ahead and register or should I wait until right before I want to start the class (which probably won't be until May or later)?
Hey! Thanks for the nice words! Delio and I had a BLAST at Ringling. We met a lot of cool people there and had a ton of fun at that presentation! We always have fun meeting animators and talking about our art and ILM, you know?

The short answer to your question is that if you've entered your email address into our teaser page, you should have priority for registration when it comes around. We're still ironing out how long that priority will last, though...

shawn ;)

Bentagon
06-23-2004, 11:40 AM
yeah, but I'm guessing he wants to know (and I do too) whether you can apply and then wait a couple or months before actually starting. What I'd also like to know is if it's possible to cancel it. I might subscribe somewhere in may/june to be able to start in september, but if I get accepted to a good college I'd like to go to, it's only reasonable that I can still cancel that AM course, since you guys said earlier that it would be very hard to combine this with real art college.

- Bentagon

Hexodam
06-23-2004, 04:55 PM
Hey Shawn, thanks for helping us out with all the information :D

I'm from Iceland and I know of quite a few people who would love to be in your school, expecialy since there is hardly any computer graphics schools in the country, except for one Reykjavik Multimedia School I think is the english name, which I have finished.

For us to learn more the only option for us is to go abroad, but with this option it opens up whole new possibilities for everyone :D

But anyway, about the pricing again since that is the biggest factor for me and everyone else around me. Just as a rough estimate, how would it compare to American schools and then to European schools?

foxco
06-23-2004, 05:58 PM
i'm not really that bothered if there is a qualification at the end or not, learning from the top pros is much more useful than a peice of paper.
coudlnt agree more

paper is over rated ;)

/fox

Felipe
06-23-2004, 06:58 PM
Hi,

First of all, I would like to thank you guys, for giving this kind of opportunity to everyone around the world. Since I live in Brazil, it is almost impossible to take any of those art schools. They are so much expensive if you consider the actual currency rate (U$1,00 -> R$3,15) and you still have to keep yourself alive in USA while in school.
After seeing the promo video on the website I felt like a dream comes true situation. Taking classes and interacting with the best animators in the world from the comfort of your home, without having all that expenses to live in USA its too good to be true.

My only hope is that you make it affordable for people around the globe, taking in consideration that not everyone can afford as much as US citizens. You should realize that you wont have a huge amount of expenses since all of us will be using our own computers. You dont need expensive labs and license for every software, as well as, all the related expenses to the actual classrooms, buildind, etc...

Looking forward to get more info about it...

Thx

Felipe

Linus Ericson
06-23-2004, 07:19 PM
I am hoping for that too, only price can stop me from taking this class. :shrug:

SheepFactory
06-23-2004, 07:23 PM
Hey great to see you here Shawn! :)


Ali

alexandrecollac
06-23-2004, 07:44 PM
Hey Felipe, good to see another brazilian guy here.
I think that not only the price but the number of vacancies should stop us too:cry:
I Really hope i can afford it.



Just waiting more news from AM staff...

swadepgh
06-23-2004, 08:21 PM
THanks guys for putting in all of the effort required to start this up. It is nice to know that there is an opportunity like this for those not willing/able to relocate for school.

I will definately be considering it for the fall. :)

skelly6
06-23-2004, 08:30 PM
yeah, but I'm guessing he wants to know (and I do too) whether you can apply and then wait a couple or months before actually starting. What I'd also like to know is if it's possible to cancel it. I might subscribe somewhere in may/june to be able to start in september, but if I get accepted to a good college I'd like to go to, it's only reasonable that I can still cancel that AM course, since you guys said earlier that it would be very hard to combine this with real art college.

- Bentagon

Actually I personally think AM would be a *perfect* companion course to any regular art school. Obviously the more time you can devote to it, the more you'll get out of it, but I definitely think this will be hugely beneficial for current students of art schools...

As for the register and then cancel thing - it won't quite work like that. If you get on our waiting list for priority registration, that doesn't mean that you're locked into it at all, it just allows you to have priority if you want to register when the time comes. By the time you actually sign up and pay to register, that will most likely be just before you'll start classes, so it won't be like you pay months and months in advance... It shouldn't be any problem.

shawn ;)

Bentagon
06-23-2004, 09:21 PM
Actually I personally think AM would be a *perfect* companion course to any regular art school. Obviously the more time you can devote to it, the more you'll get out of it, but I definitely think this will be hugely beneficial for current students of art schools...but if you're a student at Ringling or Supinfocom, or a similar high renomated animation school, would you really have the time to animate for AM nd do things for art school at the same time? (at least without losing your personal life and sleep :p)

- Bentagon

clockwerkz
06-23-2004, 10:47 PM
but if you're a student at Ringling or Supinfocom, or a similar high renomated animation school, would you really have the time to animate for AM nd do things for art school at the same time? (at least without losing your personal life and sleep :p)

- Bentagon
I think you're asking something along the lines of "if I buy Corvette ZR1 can I still drive my friend's Porsche around?" :)

If you have the opportunity to go to a great school, then by all means do it. You'll cover a lot of groundwork in a number of aspects. The great thing about AM is that you can pretty much do it from anywhere as long as you have computer access, so after you've been in school and you get a feel for your courseload, you could sign up then.
Besides, if you're at one of those schools, you're way ahead of the game already. Not like some of us in the boonies that have been wishing upon a star for a godsend like AM!

cW

mmkelly011881
06-23-2004, 11:01 PM
but if you're a student at Ringling or Supinfocom, or a similar high renomated animation school, would you really have the time to animate for AM nd do things for art school at the same time? (at least without losing your personal life and sleep :p)
personal life? sleep? :) great schools are few and far between but both of those are incredible from what i've heard. if the opportunity knocks with schools like those you have to answer... (i didnt when i had the chance so now i'm hoping AM will help rectify my past mistakes) Did anyone here go to School of Visual Arts for animation? How was it? I got in there 4 years ago (as well as ringling) but the $$ would have killed me. Still, i regret not going.

teagan
06-24-2004, 05:46 AM
looks cool. count me in. kinda cool that my husband and i could do this together.

clockwerkz
06-24-2004, 10:55 PM
Kinda quiet here today.. did we all go off to another forum thread somewhere? :)

jennifer1013
06-25-2004, 12:35 AM
I know! This thread has been HOT HOT HOT all week! I'm sure once more info becomes available..this thread will skyrocket again. It will be interesting to see how many pages this thing accumulates before the end!

alexandrecollac
06-25-2004, 12:59 AM
We are all here, eager, just waiting :wise: for news from the AM folks.


This thread is close to the replyes record in the CGNEWS topic of 459 replyes from "MODO: Q&A with Brad Peebler (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114579)". The views record had already been beaten.

Phearielord
06-25-2004, 01:06 AM
yeah?

sweeeeeeeeT:thumbsup:
man, I really want to do this course.....just hope i can get the money together in time!!:scream:

Mooncalf
06-25-2004, 01:09 AM
Kinda quiet here today.. did we all go off to another forum thread somewhere? :)

Shhh... the less people that know about this, the more chance we'll all have of being the first to get in! ;)

- M

P.S. Just kidding, of course. I've been spreading the word far and wide to all the animators and future animators I can grab the attention of. :)

jono338
06-25-2004, 02:03 AM
This thread is close to the replyes record in the CGNEWS topic of 459 replyes from "MODO: Q&A with Brad Peebler (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114579)". The views record had already been beaten.
Let's hope AM doesn't end up the VapourWare that Modo is!!! That's a frightening thought.

Rabid pitbull
06-25-2004, 03:02 AM
I am really excited by the idea of this program. It is an amazing concept to learn from the top producers in the industry, I plan on jumping on this as quickly as it is available. Getting this level of education at my own home is unbeleivable!

Great idea, so come on and hurry up we all are interested and willing.

mmkelly011881
06-25-2004, 07:42 AM
Shhh... the less people that know about this, the more chance we'll all have of being the first to get in! ;)

- M

P.S. Just kidding, of course. I've been spreading the word far and wide to all the animators and future animators I can grab the attention of. :)

Moony.. the key is that ONCE WE GET IN we spread the word :)... not before-hand :)

HamsaPaksham
06-26-2004, 02:29 AM
We are all here, eager, just waiting :wise: for news from the AM folks.


This thread is close to the replyes record in the CGNEWS topic of 459 replyes from "MODO: Q&A with Brad Peebler (showthread.php?t=114579)". The views record had already been beaten.


Huahuahua. Do jeito que voc posta, hein Alexandre? Todas as vezes que eu entro aqui tem algum post teu. Heheheh.
Eu lembro muito bem de um tpico que gerou muitas visitas e controvrsia: "Show a picture of yourself".

Era isto.

alexandrecollac
06-26-2004, 08:46 PM
Huahuahua. Do jeito que voc posta, hein Alexandre? Todas as vezes que eu entro aqui tem algum post teu. Heheheh.
Eu lembro muito bem de um tpico que gerou muitas visitas e controvrsia: "Show a picture of yourself".


E ai tudo bem,
to nervoso esperando eles abrirem logo as inscries.
Num lembro desse post "Show a picture of yourself", foi aqui no cg talk??

Bentagon
06-26-2004, 10:47 PM
could you keep it in English, please? :shrug:

- Bentagon

HamsaPaksham
06-26-2004, 10:55 PM
Ah, faz tempo, no incio quando a Cgtalk recm tinha se separado do CGchannel ainda. Era muito legal, as pessoas colocavam fotos bem divertidas.
Bah, quanto ao Animation Mentor, eu no sei se terei dinheiro suficiente. Eu j fao faculdade e gasto um grana alta...

jschleifer
06-26-2004, 11:01 PM
alta-vista translation:

Ah, it makes time, in the beginning when the Cgtalk just had if separate of the CGchannel still. It was very legal, the people placed amused photos well. Bah, how much to the Animation Mentor, I do not know if I will have enough money. I already make college and expense a high grana...

HamsaPaksham
06-26-2004, 11:05 PM
could you keep it in English, please?

Ah, ok. Sorry.
But Ive watched so many people speaking in another languages here....Spanish, German, French.
And what I was saying was right to my fella Alexandre.

I just told him that the if he keeps posting this way, soon we will break all the records of threads.
And I just remembered how funny the thread "Show a picture of yourself " was, in the time Cgtalk just had split from Cgchannel.

alexandrecollac
06-26-2004, 11:17 PM
HamsaPaksham-"Show a picture of yourself " i would like to see this post, but ve never posted anything there. I think this is a misunderstood.

jschleifer- tanks for the transtation:thumbsup: , but this alta vista translator sucks
It was very legal = It was very cool, grana...= money

HamsaPaksham
06-26-2004, 11:27 PM
Jason :)
I promise Ill never post in Portuguese anymore. But its kind of funny to say things people cannot understand. :rolleyes: Ah, and most of the people think we speak Spanish here in Brazil. Its a surprise that you know we speak Portuguese.


Alexandre:
No, I was just saying it was one of the coolest threads here, but it was a long time ago.

k4k
06-27-2004, 10:30 AM
thanx jason:)

g8 news for me!!

Bentagon
06-27-2004, 11:19 AM
could you keep it in English, please?

Ah, ok. Sorry.
But Ive watched so many people speaking in another languages here....Spanish, German, French.
And what I was saying was right to my fella Alexandre.
no problem, and thank you for translating :). Usually I don't ask to keep it in English but I'm just following this thread very closely, because I'm really interested in AM. So everything that's said could be interesting :)

- Bentagon

jschleifer
06-27-2004, 03:23 PM
well, I kinda know a bit of spanish, so I thought.. nah... not spanish. :)

slaughters
06-27-2004, 04:06 PM
... its kind of funny to say things people cannot understand...I do that all the time :)

oj3332
06-28-2004, 04:16 AM
oops...cleared.

oj3332
06-28-2004, 04:17 AM
omg I am so excited! I am new here and character animation is my weak point that I am desperate to learn :D...

not only is this idea great but this whole thread is...can't believe I've just sat here and read every single post...it's answered so many questions I came looking for :)

going to stick my name down now...hope I can afford it

only thing I'm thinking is would my parents/friends take this seriously? oh well who cares I would!

greetz,
Olz.

clockwerkz
06-29-2004, 12:43 AM
it was at the bottom of the list.. I had to bump it. :-)

Smartypants
06-29-2004, 01:08 AM
I'm very interested in this online school, but I have a few questions about it.

Putting this school together must be a lot of work for these guys. Why are they doing it? They already have successful careers. Is this nothing more than a fanboy shakedown? Are they padding their pockets in the event of industry layoffs?

Don't want to be a killjoy, but I have to wonder...

mmkelly011881
06-29-2004, 04:23 AM
do you think this will hang on front page until the fall?

SheepFactory
06-29-2004, 04:55 AM
The interview is coming up VERY soon :)

mmkelly011881
06-29-2004, 05:01 AM
haha sheep.. quit teasin me!

FUG1T1VE
06-29-2004, 07:02 AM
still waiting :)

LisaT
06-29-2004, 07:05 AM
Phew!! This thread is so long it took forever to get here to the end to post.

Ali Tezel has done a fantastic interview with Bobby, Shawn & Carlos looking at every aspect of Animation Mentor not already covered in the FAQs posted on page 5 of this thread.

This will be published very very soon on CGNetworks - stay tuned!

Thanks in advance to Ali, Bobby, Shawn and Carlos for the article and congrats to AnimMentor for bringing life to a dynamic and groundbreaking tuition/mentoring concept. - Lisa

Jozvex
06-29-2004, 08:23 AM
Sounds great Lisa! I'm assuming you're part of the CGNetworks team so, keep up the great work!

:thumbsup:

________
Edit:

And you're an Aussie! Double great work then, hehe.

Phearielord
06-29-2004, 08:58 AM
Sweeeeet!!!
I've been waiting for this interview for ages!! :bounce:

I just cant get enough of this!!

Jozvex
06-29-2004, 09:05 AM
And now the link vanished?

She must need to wait until it's posted on CGNetworks.com first or something. Lucky we got in fast eh Phearielord!!

EDIT:

Or not, haha. I read the first page and then it vanished into thin air. Never mind! I can wait!

Phearielord
06-29-2004, 09:33 AM
lol!
The same happened to me Jozvex!!!
Oh the torture!!! :banghead:

Opelfruits
06-29-2004, 09:38 AM
i got to read all 3 pages, hehe

andy_maxman
06-29-2004, 12:17 PM
if i were to play smeagol - a jam up with animationmentor would be 'my precioussssssssssssssssss'

why am i getting the shivers.........

SheepFactory
06-29-2004, 04:47 PM
Sorry guys , the interview needs to be checked by the animation mentor guys first. Also there were some questions missing thats why its pulled. It'll be back up shortly.

alexandrecollac
06-29-2004, 10:10 PM
Sorry guys , the interview needs to be checked by the animation mentor guys first. Also there were some questions missing thats why its pulled. It'll be back up shortly.
I cant wait to see it, good luck finnishing it.
:beer:

clockwerkz
06-30-2004, 01:13 AM
Is this a new interview we're talking about?



cW

Jozvex
06-30-2004, 02:23 AM
Yes, a new 3 (or more) page interview article with photos and stuff.

It was posted but it wasn't ready, it existed for like 5 minutes.

:scream:

king21
06-30-2004, 02:48 PM
I hope more info is coming soon.

This school is the only thing that i can't wait spending money on.:D

LisaT
07-01-2004, 08:29 AM
More info is here! As promised, here is Ali Tezel's interview with Bobby, Shawn and Carlos. Four pages of answers and these guys' inspiration...

LINK: http://www.cgnetworks.com/story.php?story_id=2220

Looking forward to the launch of AM now...

mattmos
07-01-2004, 09:20 AM
Nice interview! At the very least it saves you wading through 26 pages of replies in this thread...


Can't wait for more details in the autumn (quaint british version of fall ;-)

MrWyatt
07-01-2004, 10:47 AM
Wow
Cool interview and a good thing this AM stuff. if i win the lottery (not that i ever play) im in. i will graduate from animation class at my uni in two weeks and fairly i still have a long way to go animationwise. Im a quite good modeler and texturer though. I feel so bad for not having to pay for my studies so far, as its usually quite cheap in germany to study. if i lived in the US i couldnt have ever found the money to go to artschool 40 to 70 grand for three years, aaahhrgh. that would have either killed me trying to rob a bank or stopped me from dreaming and go streight to mcdonalds to flip those burgers. i would love so badlly to attend this online class but im afraid at this cost i will have to learn further from books videos and good old practice, practice and practice.
If i get a job that pays well enough for what i allready know (i.e. modelling and texturing) then maybe i will attend some parts .

Jozvex
07-01-2004, 11:05 AM
Great work everyone who put that article together!!

i would love so badlly to attend this online class but im afraid at this cost i will have to learn further from books videos and good old practice, practice and practice.

What do you mean "at this cost"? They haven't annouced any prices and they're trying to make the price as accessible as they can.

MrWyatt
07-01-2004, 12:08 PM
Great work everyone who put that article together!!



What do you mean "at this cost"? They haven't annouced any prices and they're trying to make the price as accessible as they can.
posted earlier by kevan

" 1. Q: How much will AM cost?

A: We have carefully designed AM as a one year intensive character
animation boot camp. Our school will consist of 4 courses, each made up of
12 video classes focused 100% on various aspects of character animation, and
each with a corresponding assignment tailored to reinforcing the topic of
that class. While you are encouraged to work at your own pace, 1 class per
week will get you through a course in about 3 months.

Because we are dedicated to bringing you only the absolute best personal
mentors available, and due to our exceptionally high bandwidth demands, the
cost of a full course will be comparable to art school prices; however, the
intensity of our program allows you to finish in 1/4 the time it would take
at a traditional art school, providing you with a much cheaper and more
focused experience! In order to ensure that AM is as customizable as
possible, students will also have the option to sign up for the individual
classes they are most interested in rather than the entire 12-class course."

mocking bird posted
"the cost of a full course will be comparable to art school prices...
i hope this doesnt mean $40,000 !!
anyone have a closer figure?"

and after that peanuckle posted
"$40,000 crap the art school that I ALMOST went to cost $70,000 for 3 years and they said if you knew it just test out of it. Great I want to test out of what I wanted to goto school to learn more of. I hope this will be less than $10,000 if so I think it would be a good investment. I am REALLY hoping for it to be less than $5,000 though, but I doubt it will.

Tanner"

I dont have any information on the real pricing but reading numbers like that makes me feel dizzy.

if i understood right then kevan quoted something from the makers of AM, at least it seemed like. I dont study in the US so i dont know how much it costs to study there i also dont know if they meant that it would cost as much as a complete 3 year artschool or just one year of artschool as the AM program seems to be just one year long. If it costs as much as a 3 year artschool program to get throu a 1 year course its pretty hefty. if it means that ti costs the same as 1 year ot artschool i think its reasonable . but still a third of 40 to 60 grand is still too much for me, as i missed the last chance to attend the how-to-survive-12-months-without-food-crash-course at uni this semester.

;)

Felipe
07-01-2004, 12:45 PM
Great interview (thx sheep factory), just makes me want to join more and more, but....I was hoping to have some figures like price and number of students/level. Its all so vague. They could at least give us a range like (U$ 5,000 to U$10,000) :)

Cheers,

Felipe

Linus Ericson
07-01-2004, 12:54 PM
I will try to save some money but I hopet that is not betwin $5.000 - $10.000.

BarryRIT
07-01-2004, 01:02 PM
I think they mentioned it will be comparable to an Art School Course in terms of pricing. So Im guessing that each course (Level) for AM will probably be around $1200, give or take a few hundred. Probably looking at $4000 - 5000 for the entire school. Just my personal guestimate. :)

Felipe
07-01-2004, 01:06 PM
Yeah, me too but I really doubt it will be less than 5,000 since an art school costs like 40,000 as we have been reading here so far, and they used an art school as reference. I will be really really happy if we are talking about 500 - 1,000 range per level here :)

keenasmustard
07-01-2004, 02:10 PM
Hey Mattmos: I don't think "autumn" is quaint.... "fall" is quaint. I think the US is the only country that uses that term.... lol

mmkelly011881
07-01-2004, 04:18 PM
great article.. keep the info comin!!

Mooncalf
07-01-2004, 04:53 PM
Well, like everyone else, I super-enjoyed the article. Thanks Ali, and Bobby and Carlos, and Shawn! :)

I love the idea of the 'documenary-style' teaching! One of the steepest learning curves for me has been observing people. Oh, I can watch people, and I can see some general things to take note of--but when I'm in a situation where I'm being shown HOW to look and WHAT to look for, things become so much clearer. And it really feels like AM is going to have a large concentration on observing.

So excited about this program!

Now all that's left is to patiently wait for the "we're open" sign to be hung in the doorway... :)

- M

onlooker
07-01-2004, 05:00 PM
THe Power of the internet at it's best. Too Cool.

Matias
07-01-2004, 05:52 PM
Wow.. i cant believe this is true. It is just fantastic for those who lives far far away (hehe) from any animation or arts school. Thanks a lot animationmentor :).

Greetings from Argentina.

skelly6
07-02-2004, 06:09 AM
I'm very interested in this online school, but I have a few questions about it.

Putting this school together must be a lot of work for these guys. Why are they doing it? They already have successful careers. Is this nothing more than a fanboy shakedown? Are they padding their pockets in the event of industry layoffs?

Don't want to be a killjoy, but I have to wonder...

Totally valid question - I'd be wondering the same exact thing!

Honestly, the whole project is born from two things - our love of the art of animation (watching it, doing it, studying it, talking about it, etc) and our love of teaching.

I was teaching animation classes at the Academy of Art, Bobby was mentoring a bunch of people one-on-one, and Carlos was starting up this whole DVD how-to animation set, so we were all teaching in various ways, and all three of us were discovering that we really loved doing it!

You can read in the Ali's interview how the whole thing fully started, but basically we were frustrated with the way a lot of programs are teaching the technology over the art and wanted to create something for animation students that could help them create a reel that could actually get them hired at a studio. Something that could stand alone as an animation school, but could also be a great suppliment to students who feel like they could use some extra animation help.

The project evolved a LOT (from giving seminars to doing live classes online to doing pre-recorded one-take classes totally ghetto style, to what we have now, fully edited documentaries on aspects of animation combined with input from personal mentors) as we went along, and got bigger and bigger and bigger! There were a few times where I thought "what the hell did I get myself into!?" ha ha ha

But mostly we just kept getting more and more excited with each new idea.

At some point, things kind of changed, at least for me. At first it was something fun to do, and a way to teach animation the way we've always wished it could be taught.

But as the project grew, and we started talking to more and more animation ninjas around the world, and meeting amazing people like Dean Deblois (co-director of Lilo and Stitch), or comicbook heroes of mine like Scott Morse (Soulwind) and Michael Avon Oeming (Powers) who are contributing reference for staging/posing... Well, as things started to get cooler and cooler like that, I think we really developed a love and dedication to the whole idea, above and beyond any base love of animation or teaching. We really wanted to make it something special. It's kind of our baby, you know?

I guess my answer to your question is that we worked on it for two years because we can see the huge potential this thing has to not only help animators all over the world grow in their art, or to help people get the jobs they want; but we see a potential for the project to help grow our art in general, as we bring so many different pros with different points of view together to talk about this stuff... And for us animation supergeeks, that's a very exciting prospect!

What many of you probably don't know about the people you see in our trailer is that not only are they (literally) some of the best animators in the world, but they're very geniune and good people too. People who have found success in their art and want to give back. Just like we want to.

To me, that's what this whole thing is about. And for me, that's worth a couple years of nights and weekends...

(secretly I still took an hour here and there to watch Deadwood and The Shield though! ...heh heh)

-shawn
ps - saw Spiderman2 last night. Doc Ock Rocked! wow. Between Doc Ock and Buckbeak, it's a hell of summer for animation so far!

skelly6
07-02-2004, 06:11 AM
Wow.. i cant believe this is true. It is just fantastic for those who lives far far away (hehe) from any animation or arts school. Thanks a lot animationmentor :).

Greetings from Argentina.
Awesome! Ever since we ditched the "seminar" idea, that has been one of the most exciting parts of this whole project! The idea that we can help to bring together animators from all over the globe to teach students from all over the globe - to me, that's so amazing! Gotta love the internet!

shawn ;)

Jozvex
07-02-2004, 06:44 AM
Hi guys, I've updated the FAQ again today.

I added a new question, added a link to the new article and added links to Bobby and Carlos' homepages (I would love to add one for Shawn but hey, HE'S TOO LAZY to make one!).

http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/am_faq.html

PS. I'm just being annoying Shawn!

alexandrecollac
07-02-2004, 01:56 PM
-shawn
ps - saw Spiderman2 last night. Doc Ock Rocked! wow. Between Doc Ock and Buckbeak, it's a hell of summer for animation so far!
It is going to start today here in Brazil, just cant wait to see this film, it is going to be awesome, at least the trailler is.
I dream one day i will be like this animation ninjas. Im reading the Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston book "The Illusion of Life" and it is very good to see how the animation has evolved from the thirties when they were developing the first concepts and basics to today in this AM priject that will join lots of great animators in the world, to teach and evolve this thing to a higher level once more. congrats:applause:

Just another thing, when are u going to finish with this waiting and r going to tell us more details about how it is going to work and when it is going to start
:cry:


Jozvex - good work keep it comming:thumbsup:

clockwerkz
07-06-2004, 01:30 AM
If anyone is still up in arms about the whole real school vs. virtual school debate, Shawn Kelly posted a reply to this topic at cgchar:

http://cgchar.toonstruck.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=1995&


Listen, these guys are all over the place. They are definitely not crackpots who are slapping together some cheesy web informercial. They are taking the time to answer all sorts of questions from anyone. So I personally cannot wait for this to open up. I don't care what the cost is. For all I care, they could make a killing and travel the world for six months. I know that a year from the time I start, I'm going to be a hell of a lot better because I will finally be able to apply my dedication in a positive direction, and not be re-inventing the wheel in some cases.

cW

mmkelly011881
07-06-2004, 02:53 AM
well said clock, keep the hope alive!!!

FloydBishop
07-06-2004, 03:04 AM
Listen, these guys are all over the place. They are definitely not crackpots who are slapping together some cheesy web informercial.

Also, the school (Animation Mentor) has not been provenyet. Until they get some graduates and prove that the great animators are also great teachers (often not the same thing) they shouldn't really be compared to an institution with thousands of graduates with hundreds or thousands that work in the industry.

It's kind of like all of the third party CG houses claiming they can produce Pixar quality or better. Until they do, it's all talk.

Not trying to be negative, but realistic.

char_animator
07-07-2004, 04:28 AM
In a private college, the tuition for 1 course is around $2,000.

AM said the price would be much cheaper.

I dont know how much is "much".

If I guess that "much" is half, $1,000 for 1 course. $4,000 for total.

Does it make sense?

Quizboy
07-07-2004, 10:37 AM
If you don't mind me taking this conversation in another direction, I would like to discuss the career trajectory of an animator. I am interested in directing films, animated and live-action because live-action seems to be becoming more and more animated anyway. (Spiderman,Hulk,Van Helsing,Matrix,LOTR, etc., etc., etc.)

I am a current animation student (evening school) and I love animation for the opportunity it gives me to try out any and all camera shots I have in mind at a whim. I feel I learn a lot faster about shot-making inside the computer where I have no budget limitations than I could with real world dv or film. (You know no cranes, dollies, or tracks at my ready disposal...)

My Questions:

From the movement you see of people working in the industry, is starting out as an animator a good way to work up toward ultimately directing animated features and possibly live-action later on? Or would I be wiser to simply sharpen my skills as a storyboard/concept artist? Put another way, are there any animators who end up as film directors or is that the exception to the rule? Plus, is it a good training ground for directing or is it a bit too deep in the trenches to get a good overview of the big picture?

I'm working on a short film. If I decide to sign up for Animation Mentor and get in I'd probably take the year off and work on my short film while following the AM program. How much back and forth feedback with mentors will be allowed? Will you guys help me critique and guide the progress of my short film while I am doing the course?

Bentagon
07-07-2004, 12:33 PM
As an answer to your first question, I think it is very unlikely you'll ultimately end up as a live action film director. But if you're talented as a director, and take the opportunity to show that to the company you're working for, they might let you direct a shortfilm. For example, boundin' from pixar is directed by an animation guru that has worked on things like eg. sesame street for his whole life.

As for your second question, I think the answer will be positive. Since they say they want to get as close to their students as possible, I'm guessing they'll give you tips on more then just their courses.

- Bentagon

keenasmustard
07-07-2004, 01:30 PM
Question:

Approximately how much time are you planning to have in between the announcements of official nitty gritty details of AnimationMentor, and the commencement of the first intake? For example, none of us know if we are even on the first "list" of applicants and we don't know official start dates or costs. Once this information is released, how much time will we have to prepare before the course starts? If we are in the first group, but for some reason, (ie raising our own funds or work commitments etc) we aren't able to participate with the classes at that time, are we then dropped back to the bottom of the list, or can we be guaranteed a place in the next intake?

mmkelly011881
07-07-2004, 04:00 PM
i'm pretty positive that nobody is IN right now...
(based on what was said earlier)
invitations will be sent out earlier to ALL who signed up for email notices in the fall

Quizboy
07-07-2004, 05:12 PM
I see for example (using IMDB) that Andrew Adamson, who directed Shrek(s) will be doing a live action feature next (the Lion, the Witch, & the Wardrobe) but looking at his list of credits before I see a lot of Visual Effects stuff. Does that mean he came out of VFX and got the Shrek job, or was he actually an animator? (a lot of these titles you read in someone's credits like digital effects artist or visual effects lead artist or whatever don't really tell much about what a person has actually done or what their specialty is - i mean is a guy a really good matte painter, or is he a compositing wiz, or fantastic at generating 3D dynamics simulations or what?)

I mean I can imagine making the leap quite easily from directing an animated feature to directing a live action feature, especially one that's loaded with effects like he'll be making and especially if the animated feature does as well as Shrek did, but are there any animators who actually end up directing an animated feature?

For guys like you - Bobby Beck, Shawn Kelly, and Carlos Baena, is you guys' goal just to keep getting nicer and nicer animating jobs, bigger toys and fatter paychecks or is there some other longterm master plan at work? Would you like to eventually direct a film, or would you like to expand your skillset laterally? How many other skills have you been able to learn over the years such as compositing or other digital effects, modeling, or rendering if that strikes your fancy and how much support has your company offered for this? Has there been room for delving deeper into MEL (for example) or technical aspects of animating or is that something you've just had to squeeze in time for if it interests you?

I guess I'm just trying to get a picture of what an animation career might look like as I feel it's a very important part of deciding to choose for an all-out exclusively animation program such as Animation Mentor.

skelly6
07-07-2004, 06:08 PM
For guys like you - Bobby Beck, Shawn Kelly, and Carlos Baena, is you guys' goal just to keep getting nicer and nicer animating jobs, bigger toys and fatter paychecks or is there some other longterm master plan at work? Would you like to eventually direct a film, or would you like to expand your skillset laterally? How many other skills have you been able to learn over the years such as compositing or other digital effects, modeling, or rendering if that strikes your fancy and how much support has your company offered for this? Has there been room for delving deeper into MEL (for example) or technical aspects of animating or is that something you've just had to squeeze in time for if it interests you?

I guess I'm just trying to get a picture of what an animation career might look like as I feel it's a very important part of deciding to choose for an all-out exclusively animation program such as Animation Mentor.

Actually, ILM is great for encouraging and supporting the pursuit of any of the other disciplines you mentioned. A lot of people here cross-train in other things, but for the most part everyone is a specialist. I'm pretty sure Pixar is the same way, but I can't speak for them...

For me, my focus is 100% on animation and filmmaking in general, and I actually don't have any real interest in learning any more about other aspects of CG. I love animation, and for me, that's what I want to do, you know? I still have some of the interests I've always had, (such as directing or writing) and do still pursue those, but for the most part I don't want to spend (to me: "waste") any of my time on something that doesn't apply to character animation. I'd rather spend my time in an acting class or something that will benefit me as an animator.

I've done a bit of modelling/texturing/rigging/etc at a previous job and escaping to a big studio where I can focus on growing as an animator is the best thing that ever happened to me career-wise! No lookin' back!

I do realize some people like many different aspects of CG, and in answer to your question, yeah - the studios are filled with specialists but usually offer training programs if you want (or if they need you) to learn about other things... I can't speak for other studios, but ILM's training program rocks, and they're always cross-training people in many different things.

Oh, and in answer to someone else's question, you guys will know a lot more about AM, (schedules, syllabi, pricing, etc) well in advance of enrollment opening up...

shawn ;)

Karlapet
07-07-2004, 06:50 PM
I love the whole thing.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Quizboy
07-07-2004, 07:06 PM
Thanks for your answer. Must be creatively liberating to be able to animate and just animate...wow, a dream. And encouraging that ILM supports cross-training...

What have you seen as the mobility in an animators' career from your eyes? Do animators ever get to direct films, (animated or live) or are the directors of the animated films coming from another discipline (like visual FX, or art department.) What do most of the animators aspire to longterm?

skelly6
07-07-2004, 07:17 PM
Thanks for your answer. Must be creatively liberating to be able to animate and just animate...wow, a dream. And encouraging that ILM supports cross-training...

What have you seen as the mobility in an animators' career from your eyes? Do animators ever get to direct films, (animated or live) or are the directors of the animated films coming from another discipline (like visual FX, or art department.) What do most of the animators aspire to longterm?

Well, there are definitely animators who have proven themselves as directors, such as Brad Bird, Pete Docter, Tim Burton, etc., so it's certainly possible... I think story people tend to move into directing more commonly than animators do, or from a visual effects standpoint camera-people (David Fincher was a camera guy at ILM back in the day) have made the leap, but I don't think there's any real "best way" to become a director. If directing is your dream, then I'd be spending every spare second at film classes and making my own films, you know?

I saw an interview with Kevin Smith over the weekend, and I think he was repeating something he had been told, but I thought it was awesome advice: "If you want to be a filmmaker, be a filmmaker."

He meant to stop "wanting to become a filmmaker" and stop dreaming about someday being a filmmaker and just start making some films. I think the same exact thing applies to animation and most other aspects of CG as well... If anyone has the drive to work hard towards a goal, and the willingness to be open to learning and criticism, then any of these things, including directing a movie, is certainly attainable.

Totally just my opinion...

-shawn

LisaT
07-08-2004, 12:53 AM
Also, the school (Animation Mentor) has not been proven yet. Until they get some graduates and prove that the great animators are also great teachers (often not the same thing) they shouldn't really be compared to an institution with thousands of graduates with hundreds or thousands that work in the industry.
This is a extremely good point, Floyd. Experience and consumate expertise in a given field don't necessarily make that person a good teacher. Teaching is a different skill.

Not to be negative - the AnimationMentor concept is clearly packed with positive aspects! But when I first read the interview Ali did with Shawn, Carlos and Bobby I wondered about the actual teachers. Will the mentors who provide the course content and write the syllabi receive perhaps some quick training on how to teach if they've never taught before? Will there be some sort of quality control at AnimationMentor to make sure the teacher-mentors actually teach and mentor well. Will the students be doing formal evaluations of theit teachers?

Sorry for all the questions - just curious

Smartypants
07-08-2004, 01:40 AM
I'd just like to thank Skelly6 and all AnimationMentor contributors who are taking the time to get on here and provide us with answers. Thanks guys!

And to show my appreciation, I shall bestow upon you... another question!

From what I understand, you have broken down the course of study into different levels. Will you place students into the level that you think is appropriate for them, based on their portfolios/previous experience, or will you let them decide for themselves what level to start at? I have some animation experience, but I'm looking to sharpen my skills and kick myself up a notch. How's that gonna work?

Gingerhammer
07-08-2004, 01:55 AM
What happens to the industry when 1000 quality animators per year add to the already flooded job-seekers market? A world full of creative shelf-stackers?

SheepFactory
07-08-2004, 01:57 AM
What happens to the industry when 1000 quality animators per year add to the already flooded job-seekers market? A world full of creative shelf-stackers?
What happens?

Nothing , the same thing thats happening today. What is your argument exactly? That animation mentor is a risk to your job?

I would worry more about substandart schools turning out substandart students and flood the market.

Gingerhammer
07-08-2004, 02:07 AM
No argument, just something different.
The vast majority of Graduates don't flood the market - they are stuck behind the tidal barrier with very little prospects...

LisaT
07-08-2004, 02:22 AM
Actually AnimationMentor seem to be marketing this as a way for people - even ones who already have jobs - to improve and maximise their natural talents. They already said it's not about churning through as many students as they can but giving really good quality mentoring.

We'll see I guess...

PS: I'm guessing "no prospects" is kind of what "flooding the market" means Gingerhammer

Gingerhammer
07-08-2004, 02:39 AM
"PS: I'm guessing "no prospects" is kind of what "flooding the market" means Gingerhammer"

Yup. Had to re-think that one. I can't even string a thought together coherantly so I'm off to bed!

clockwerkz
07-08-2004, 02:42 AM
No argument, just something different.
The vast majority of Graduates don't flood the market - they are stuck behind the tidal barrier with very little prospects...

I think those who graduate and really have dedicated themselves to what they want to do, eventually find a niche somewhere some place. But only to those that have really busted their ass to do it.
I hear alot about this thing with too many people out in the market, and I think it's not necessarily as bad as it is. I'm not singling anyone out, but the question comes down to dedication. Are you coming home from work and sitting down and trying to learn something new? Are you eating, breathing, and living animation? Or are you surfing these boards, watching TV, and saying "Eventually, I'll get to it.."? Again, I'm not calling you out.. But from what I've seen in the school I was attending, you found that there were a few who complained about the job market being overcrowded, but then they didn't push themselves in their work. And of those who complained, a lot of their work was half-assed, you know? Then there were a few who just stayed quiet and busted their butts working. I'm sure those will get somewhere. Maybe it's work ethic that I'm trying to get at. I dunno.. I'm just a street cop that comes home after 10 hours and sits in front of a monitor and tries to figure out how to bring a character to life. :)

On another note, I can clearly see why AM is going to be a benefit for me.. because I'll have guidance from pros who will edge me along in the right direction. These are high caliber people. Take Shawn Kelly for instance.. the guy works for Industrial Light and Magic. Maybe some of you all on this board have industry contacts and it's nothing major to see someone of this caliber on this site, but to me, it's incredible. When I was a kid I use to go to the bookstore and sit on the floor and read this HUGE ILM book they had. It had all these models from Star Wars and it talked about the making of Star Wars, and I would just be blown away by it. 'Course I was young and that book cost a hell of a lot more than I could afford. And this guy works there. Yet he's on this board taking questions about this program. These people are like pro athletes, in my opinion. We should be asking them to autograph our sketch books or something. lol.

cW

alexandrecollac
07-08-2004, 03:06 AM
clockwerkz - agree with u. It is up to u to work hard, study and learn to be the best, and these ones are the guys that have the best jobs. It is not only a talent thing, ive seen people with talent being overtake by really dedicated guys.(not saying that someone here is this or that). If u have a dream and "bust your ass", like u said, and never give up, u certainly will get there.

Dedication and passion on what u do this is the key

oppps, just to bore, when are u going to start the enrollment??

fluxgrafx
07-08-2004, 03:20 AM
i guess two honest opinions could be this. one, this could make a really good book with dvd or cd. and the other one, at the academy art college and the pixar courses taught there. when you have deadlines and or a grade to worry about, it makes a BIG difference in motivation. it can be done w/o this..but.....i wish all the best for this project.

seasterling
07-08-2004, 03:37 AM
I think Shawn posted somewhere that there will be some sort of system in place to ensure the quality of the mentors. I think he also mentioned that currently there were around 30 of them. I wonder if their ability to critique will be more important than their ability to teach in this case as their lesson plans seem to be already in place for them. Some might be better than others at different levels of the program as well.

Also, not everyone who starts this program is going to finish it, nor does the program ensure you will come out with the ability to be a working animator. I think few will have the dedication and ability to make it to that level even with something as great as AM.

It would be interesting to know how many people have signed onto the AM mailing list. Hopefully those that register will at least have their feet wet in animation so spaces are not wasted. Just hope I get in :scream:

alexandrecollac
07-08-2004, 03:59 AM
It would be interesting to know how many people have signed onto the AM mailing list. Hopefully those that register will at least have their feet wet in animation so spaces are not wasted. Just hope I get in :scream:

probably more than i would like to know:cry:
when they begin the apply they will be flooded by inscriptions

Quizboy
07-08-2004, 10:21 AM
He meant to stop "wanting to become a filmmaker" and stop dreaming about someday being a filmmaker and just start making some films. I think the same exact thing applies to animation and most other aspects of CG as well... If anyone has the drive to work hard towards a goal, and the willingness to be open to learning and criticism, then any of these things, including directing a movie, is certainly attainable.


Thanks again Shawn, I totally agree with this advice and in that vein I am currently working on my own animated short. If I have the opportunity to join AM I will probably take the year off to work on the short while following the AM program. Could I expect to get a lot of back and forth feedback from AM mentors regarding my short while being a student in the program?

I think story people tend to move into directing more commonly than animators do
Sorry, for the industry uneducated of us, what are "story people?" do you mean storyboard artists, concept artists/illustrators? or actual writers?

Bentagon
07-08-2004, 10:21 AM
What happens to the industry when 1000 quality animators per year add to the already flooded job-seekers market? A world full of creative shelf-stackers?This thought had crossed my mind once too, but I found that it is far from the truth. Reels are the most important part of getting a job somewhere, but connections sure help a hell of a lot too. When after a year (or a bit more) you motivated yourself through the 4 courses, and apply for a job in some small or medium company (so no pixar, ILM, etc.). You think you won't get accepted if your reel is good and you've got references from 4 different people of Pixar, ILM, Weta, etc?

Sorry, for the industry uneducated of us, what are "story people?" do you mean storyboard artists, concept artists/illustrators? or actual writers?I think he means all of those people. You've probably already noticed that a lot of directors write or co-write the script or screenplay of their films. A director needs to know how to bring the whole story to life by telling other people what to do. Writers or storyboard artists, etc. already bring their story to life in their own way (writing/drawing), and by doing so, already tell the rest of the crew what direction they should take. Considering this, I think that the leap from "story people" to director is smaller then that from animator.

- Bentagon

Quizboy
07-08-2004, 10:56 AM
Thanks Bentagon, which leads directly to another question:

Pre-Vis...a growing tool for preparation of scenes and putting it all together. What department handles this? Story, or animation? I imagine the Pre-Vis has got to be animated by the animators, so does this mean that the more that 3D Pre-Vis of scenes becomes an across-the-board standard (if it's not already) that animators will become an increasingly integral part of the "story people" side of the team?

oshiroii
07-08-2004, 11:24 AM
Okay, first of all AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARHG HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS THREAD AAAAAAAARHG (*pant*) (*pant*) AAAAAAAAAAARGH It's like 15 pages long, kay, read everything till page 8 and then skipped to 15, com'on, needed to react eh? Will be reading the rest tonight.
Kay, second, I love bobby for reacting about this.
Third I love your site, the second animation made me roll over the floor laughing :) It's really funny, hahahaha
Forth, haha,(superiour laugh) I live in Europe and the Euro is higher than the dollar, so i'll have a discount tja tja tja (dancing around shakin' things)
Fith,I love you all for doing this AM thing, I'll sign up right away when I can!
Sixth, I'll actually get a job, I had a job for 3 years, got fired and thought like hmm, nev0r mind, but nooooow, I'll run the the first stupid job available
seventh, I love this forum for all the nice and cool people posting about,
and last and eighth, forgive my enthoustic post :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

EDIT: OMG this is actually page 29 :argh:

Breinmeester
07-08-2004, 01:26 PM
Quizboy, I seriously (and respectfully) think you are too hung up on the theoratical side of this all. There is no one way or best way set to become a director of either live action or animation. You should just take your shot at it. That Kevin Smith quote is exactly the whole idea!! You want to be a filmmaker? Have you tried picking up a camera already?? Kevin did. He shot a very low budget and very entertaining film called 'Clerks', which became a cult hit and his platform to move on.

Also, you should realize the difference between a director and a filmmaker. Obviously you would have to be both, but there is a significant difference. Directing is a practical job, which envolves telling people what to do and steering everything in the right direction to getting the right film made. A filmmaker is a story teller at first and has chosen film as his medium to get that story across. As we all know it's all about the story, so first be sure you have something to say. Next try to put it on film (or video) and see if you have directing qualities as well. Seriously, there is NO threshold! If you want to be a filmmaker, be a filmmaker!

Sorry, to jack the thread.

Quizboy
07-08-2004, 03:36 PM
Breinmeester, personally I think we could stand to benefit a lot more from a more realistic perspective of what a career in animation actually is than yet another page of gushing about how incredible of an opportunity Animation Mentor is (as much as I wholeheartedly agree.) If we need that re-iterated it'd be a lot easier to just re-read pages 9-29

We can't make the price and sign-up form come out any faster than it will be coming out, and I don't think the AM guys will FORGET to give us the information as soon as it's ready so it makes a lot more sense to try and learn something more about the industry Animation Mentor will be preparing us for.

do you have the answer to my Pre-Vis question? Is Pre-Vis integrating animators more onto the story side of productions?

Breinmeester
07-08-2004, 05:19 PM
Breinmeester, personally I think we could stand to benefit a lot more from a more realistic perspective of what a career in animation actually is than yet another page of gushing about how incredible of an opportunity Animation Mentor is (as much as I wholeheartedly agree.) If we need that re-iterated it'd be a lot easier to just re-read pages 9-29

Hmm, I don't really understand where that's coming from as I didn't even mention AM in my post, nor was I praising it, I was making a point on your goal to become a (live action) director. But for threadjacking reasons, let's leave it at this.

Pre-viz is just that, a pre visualisation of what is about to be made. A storyboard is an essential step for translating the scenario to the screen. With animation or effects shots an animatic or pre-viz is a must as well, just to guide the animators and post production people through the shot. The director (of photography) still has his final say on how it's going to look, it just makes it easier to see what the end result is going to look like. Often smaller and cheaper studios do the pre-viz work and bigger studios do the actual effects shots.
I think animators can best be seen as actors. So they're story interperters rather than story tellers, but there are a lot of animators that feel the desire to tell their own story, so they start writing their own story and set it up to be animated.

skelly6
07-08-2004, 05:29 PM
From what I understand, you have broken down the course of study into different levels. Will you place students into the level that you think is appropriate for them, based on their portfolios/previous experience, or will you let them decide for themselves what level to start at? I have some animation experience, but I'm looking to sharpen my skills and kick myself up a notch. How's that gonna work?

For now, AM students will be starting in Level A and move forward from there. We really feel like that will create the best possible learning environment for the students, as all of the classes build on one another.

However, in the future we are planning to offer a review process for professionals who want to skip a level or two...

That said, I have to say... the "Level A" classes do have a *lot* to offer to all but the most advanced animators. I'm constantly surpirsed (in a great way) by how much I've personally learned from the animators we've interviewed for various classes about concepts that I thought I had a complete handle on! Which, to me, is one of the coolest things about animation - you can never know it all. It's *way* too deep, you know?

Fun stuff!

-shawn ;)

Quizboy
07-08-2004, 07:28 PM
I think animators can best be seen as actors. So they're story interperters rather than story tellers, but there are a lot of animators that feel the desire to tell their own story, so they start writing their own story and set it up to be animated.Yes, this is part of the reason I brought this up. I love the animation I've been learning so far, and I'd like to go much deeper with it. But I can imagine that I'm not the only person who eventually wants to do their own stories and/or their own characters. Animators are highly creative people. But the work itself doesn't seem to leave much room for creativity. Does the industry grind of an animator constantly crunching out someone else's shots and ideas eventually grind the creative life out of them? or are there ways that high-level animators exercise their own creativity on the job? Or does ones level of creative input grow when one becomes a lead or a supervisor?

I'm on the outside looking in, that's why I keep asking these kind of questions from the eyes of those who are on the inside. It's all just to get a real picture of what it is I'm going after.

Viper3d
07-08-2004, 07:31 PM
Wow, I just found this post when I was trying to show someone something from this board... and it could possibly be the answer I'm looking for. I'm really skeptical and I wanted some input on it, as this is my life and career and I don't wanna make the wrong choice.

My problem is, that I have gotten accepted into Ringling School of Art and Design, but I'm poor. I am still planning on going as of right now, but it is so expensive I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now I have loans out for everything (except for about 1 grand a semester that grants took care of).

I will literally have over 120,000 in loans to pay back once I graduate... so I'm freaked out big time... My question to all you computer animators and guru's out there... should I bother with Ringling... or would it be smart to do this from my home?

I have incredibly faster internet here, so thats not a problem...

I read through most of it, but I had some questions and i'm not sure if they were answered later in the posts:

How much roughly, will it be per semester or per class? And will I have a chance of getting in? or will it be full if i try to sign up now??

If I go through this program, would I have the same chance of getting a job as I would if I went to Ringling... (assume that I do my best and my Work is the best it can be)

I've never tried online classes, but I live in a very small town, far away from everything... and I would have to drive over 24 hours to get to Ringling... which I am already planning on doing right now. If this school is going to be around and it will get me a good job if I put forth 110%... I think I should try it... but I wanted to get everyone elses opinion.

Sorry for the long post, I'm just nervous and happy and anxious all at the same time.

- Jason

furryspork
07-08-2004, 10:47 PM
Hi Jason,

As a Ringling student, I think that the Ringling experience is worth it for several reasons. First of all, in terms of getting a job, you have to ask yourself whether you're absolutely sure that you want to be a character animator, or whether you might want to go into some other aspect of CG. Sometimes it's easier to get a job in something like rigging or modeling or lighting than it is to get a job in animation, so if you might want to do something like that, then it wouldn't be the best idea to take only AM classes which focus only on animation. However, if you're absolutely sure you want to be an animator, then AM might be a good choice. This thread that somebody posted earlier has some more information about this subject: http://cgchar.toonstruck.com/forum/...=ST&f=2&t=1995&

Another thing that's great about Ringling that you probably wouldn't have at AM is the fact that our teachers are so completely dedicated to teaching because they don't have full-time jobs outside of teaching. I haven't personally been in any CA classes yet (I just finished my core year), but I've heard from other students that teachers will sometimes respond to their emails late at night to help them with a project long after school hours are over. It's great to have help from people who are currently working at top companies in the industry, but they probably won't have time to be as dedicated to your education as our teachers are at Ringling.

Also, getting help from other students is something that I feel helps me a lot personally. I don't know how AM plans to have their student community set up, and for all I know there might be plenty of student interaction there, but for me I think it's going to be really helpful to be learning in an environment where I'm working in a lab that I share with a lot of other talented people. I think it will push me to bring my work up to a level that will be close to that of my peers, and I'll probably benefit from being around a lot of people who are going through the same things I am, and might have better solutions to some problems than I do.

I think the best decision for me is to be enrolled in both Ringling and AM, but only do AM during the summer, or during other times when I'm not in school, since I think the workload would be too great to do them at the same time. I'm really fortunate that my parents financially planned to have me go to a fairly expensive college (although maybe not as expensive as Ringling) and I already had my heart set on becoming an animator by the time I graduated from high school. My student loan situation is such that I could conceivably be in Ringling and AM, whereas money is going to be a much bigger issue for you paying all of your own tuition.

Honestly, if I had to choose, I don't how I would make that decision. If you don't think you can pay off that much in loans, and you know that you want to do character animation, I would say that you should do AM. On the other hand, it would be really hard not to accept an offer of admissions from Ringling. :sad:

That's a decision I wouldn't want to have to make and I wish you the best of luck.

clockwerkz
07-08-2004, 11:53 PM
I think it's very important to have these discussions about the whole issue of real or virtual schools..

But what I feel is more important is that we keep bumping this thread up! I don't care if people are discussing underwear sizes.. I love coming on to cgtalk and finding new posts on this thread, hoping that there's an update. Plus, I think if we keep it active and popular enough, it'll remain as a frontrunner for any firsthand updates from the fouders of AM.

:-)

cW

alexandrecollac
07-09-2004, 12:36 AM
furryspork - Thanks for the information about Ringling i ve seen some very good Shorts from Ringling students. Just one question how much is it per year, and qhere it is exactly??


clockwerkz - I can see that you are just like me, looking in theis thread and cheking mail every minute of the day, heheh:beer: . These months are the more longer in my life.

Viper3d
07-09-2004, 04:44 AM
Its in Sarasota, Florida and its approximately 30k per year, for 4 years. =(


furryspork: Thats the thing that is keeping me still going... the invitation into the Animation Program. I worked my butt off at community college in art Classes to sharpen my art skills to get into the animation department, and I got in... If they accepted a broad number of people, then I would probably turn it down. I live in Illinois and its going to be an awful long trip down there, as I am going to need to drive down to bring my stuff.

What I want to do is, Modeling and Animation... if its not possible to do both at a big studio, then I'd have to chose the modeling aspect of it. Of course I'd probably get bored of it without any animating along with it as well... so maybe that means I wanna be an animator.. I don't know.

I just don't know what to do... I wanna scream right now. What are the chances that I will get a fairly good job right after college to pay it off... I've also heard that some workplaces will help students pay off their loan in addition to pay.

Its only a month away and I don't know what to do... I've never been so stressed out before. I could go back to the Art Institute In Schaumburg, IL... or I could just do AM... or I could flip out and run to a remote part of the country and live off of nuts and berries.

- Jason

RobW720
07-09-2004, 04:59 AM
well if the cost of it is reasonable (aka not over like 10 grand) ill probibaly do it while i go to school. two schools... TA at school, Tutor at school, outside weekend job and lots of animation.... good bye social life, but thats alright :-D

Breinmeester
07-09-2004, 06:09 AM
Viper3D (jason), I think it's clear you really want to go to Ringling. I don't think a $120,000 loan is unovercomeable, although it will mean you'll have to live in a smaller house then you'd want to. ;) I think you'll regret it your whole life if you don't go. Just my two cents, not trying to make it harder for you... Good luck!!

Bentagon
07-09-2004, 10:51 AM
I agree with Breinmeester on this one...
And I think you'll get plenty of job opportunities coming from such a dedicated college. I've done some research for Bournesmouth University a couple of weeks ago, and found that the courses take 3 years, but you can take an optional year between the 2nd and 3rd year, in which you are placed in a company, so you get industry experience plus a big chance of getting hired there. I don't know if they do something like this in Ringling, but maybe it's something to check out...

- Bentagon

oshiroii
07-09-2004, 11:04 AM
So, I did it, I spend almost 5 hours (of which 2 and a half deep in the night) reading this tread and I can proudly tell, I have read 90% of it. At some part I just got tired with al the :" this is so amazing" "too good to be true" and " you so totally rock..uhm ... Animation mentor" :D

First crit there is I suppose, and I'll post it :eek: Kay, animation mentor is called animation mentor or AM, and AM is also animation master, so I keep screwing up those words (>_<) Tottally frustating.

Questions yes yes hahahhaha

Question 1:
Will you serioulsy get to know guys from the industry. Just pretend I'm getting in your clases and just pretend I'm tottally the master. I work 26 hours a day on the animations (that's what I do now too :argh:) If you look back on course A and I'm about to finish course D I really made progress and you can just say:" well, well, that's just really good animation, HMMhmm, that's a tasty burge... animation" :p Do I get to know industry guys? I mean I know my mentor and my mentor is a big shot animator. If he notice that I'm really driven, enthousiastic and I give quality work and want more, more and more of the precious, will he introduce me to other people like:" Yo, andrew, check out this dude, he's awsume, not perfect, but he has a great talent!" and andrew says, HMMhmm, that IS pretty good worke, for a student, " and shawn say: " ooooow yes" Andrew " hmm I'll see what I can do"

So, do you get to know people after you have finished the classes and shown that you're really, like the above stuff. This is pretty important. I mean, all the guys from dreamworks, pixar, ILM working along with this project, it'd be a shame if you'd work your arse off and not hear a thing after you "graduated" Than it'd be like: " ow yeah, I learned from a pixar animator" " woooow, dude that's amazing, can I have his e-mail?!" " well, uhmm....actually I uhm .. hahaha, I never saw him again after the lessons :cry: ")
That's the thing I wanna know, 'cause else, it'd be kinda useless. I learn to animate really well, but you don't get to know people. And if I work really hard, that's what I want. Get better at animating and getting the profit of knowing people, they are involved so...
If I aint that good at all and don't get to know people, than that's just fine. I didn't work hard enough, too bad!

Second question!
This isn't really a question, but I noticed some stuff on the internet. Take a look at Digital Tutors.com They give excellent training. They're planning to put al there stuff online and work out a system, like, you pay 10 $ per month, and you get acces to everything they have. Is it the same with you guys. I noticed that you just love to animate and want to teach it. Teach it not for the money, but for the love of animating and teaching. So what I assume is that you at least want the bandwidth costs out of it, a bit of money for the software liscense and computer costs and mabe a bit for your selfs. But you already have a job in which you make money. And want to teach for the love of taeching. Same goes for DT, only you have an entire school :applause: QUESTION: Wil it be like that? Will it be like 10 to 20 bucks a month? I mean, you already have like i dunno at least 500 people who want to join, that can only grow to more people. If it's that cheap the whole 3d community will join. If you have like say 200 people per time. So 50 for each level. You'd have 2000 per month, that's prety much for bandwidht isn't it? And that's just 10 bucks, if you'd have 20 or 30 you could pay some people who like to get paid. Like the program0rz, i dunno.
I'd really like some more information about it. That's like the most important thing whether I'll join or not. And a lot of people asked you questions about it and you just turn a bit round the stuff. Is there the posibillity to say like:" Kay, the prices will be anounced at the 14th of july (that's my b-day)And at that day, CG-talk will be exploded with posts. That'd be nice than a vague answer, just N000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!! will do fine too :D

Uhm I probably had another question, but I forgot

thanks in advance
shiroii

ps
You all know which Andrew right?

ow and clockwerkz, you're damn right about people really working their ass of and people who don't really put energy in it and still dare to complain, they suck and are in every school

Ow, if the price is a secret, you can send me a privat message I won't tell :p

oshiroii
07-09-2004, 11:22 AM
Just 2 more questions that popped into my head while fixin'dinner.

QUESTION:1
Will you give tips'n'tricks on how to model your character ready for animation? If you make a still and won't animate, you'll model much differently than when for an animation. I've been modeling now for like more than 2 weeks (in hours) on a character for animation. It's not even near finished, still don't have arms or hands, the feet needz work, the face too. There goes a lot of time in it. I want the right number of edges at places like knees and elbows and minimize them at things like the forarm or other stuff that doesn't bend. You also might give attantion to the rigg. I think this'd be more something for the B or C class, but the rigg is super important. If you screw it up, no way the animting part will be fun. I say this, becuase after the lessons you won't have premade characters.If you draw out a cool character and want to make it. AM isn't there to give it to you, you have to make it on your own. So that'd be a good thing to do besides the animation.

QUESTION 2
Will there be a free preview? More than a trailer, but actually a free lesson, to see how you teach and explain everything. Without the communication between the student and the menor of course. This'd be nice to actually see you guys do it, without paying for it. After that you could deside to do it. I am of course, if it isn't to expensive. If it is expensive and the free preview just so totally rocks that I just have to do it, I might just pay you anywayz, despite of the high prise. It'd also give people more insight of what you're planning to do or what the student is going to get. (the communication can't be there, but you'll have to make that very clear of course)

Please give some shiny answers :thumbsup:

shiroii

alexandrecollac
07-09-2004, 01:42 PM
Wow, it is always expensive. 30K for me it is 90K, dollar here is not cheap. In four years it will be 360k, i can buy a Ferrari with this.
Thinking in prices and decisions on what to do, comes up one question.

- To be an animator it will cost to me lots of money ( that is not mine, is from my parents, i have only 21 and the only money that i got until today was from internships), so i expect at least pay back some of this money to my parents, and to convince them that it is a good investment on me. I would like to know in how many years working in a high level studio with a high level job ill earn sufficient money to pay it back???

Quizboy
07-09-2004, 02:16 PM
Because Animation Mentor is a "pure" animation program I think it's a good idea if the AM guys might share their insights into the inner workings of the industry in the life of an animator. I'm pretty sure that most people (including myself) who are trying to get into animation professionally don't really have a clear idea what it's like to work on a daily basis as an animator.

I can imagine (that like any other discipline) working in the industry is a lot different than being a student. As a student you're pretty much realizing your own vision with each and every project and/or assignment so of course even though it is hard work, it's still a lot of fun to see your visions come true. So these people think "Wow, I'd love to animate professionally!" But animating for a feature is following the exact creative direction of someone else, right down to the keyframes (as far as my limited understanding.) It's a different beast altogether...but as a Ringling student you cover more ground, including concept sketching, storyboarding, modeling, lighting, etc. so if you figure out that you can't cut the hardcore animation grind you've still got options and a basis for shifting gears. What I mean to say is it seems to me one should only choose AM as an exclusive training program if they are absolutely sure they only want to be a "pure" animator. And how do you know that? By having a clear idea of what an animation career really is...

I suggest that the guys of AM add a section to their website like "What is an Animation Career?" that describes from their own experiences what an animation career is really like, to aid interested students in knowing realistically exactly WHAT kind of career Animation Mentor will be preparing them for.

milagroman
07-09-2004, 02:28 PM
Wow, it is always expensive. 30K for me it is 90K, dollar here is not cheap. In four years it will be 360k, i can buy a Ferrari with this.
Thinking in prices and decisions on what to do, comes up one question.

get the ferarri it will be more fun and youll get more chicks.

oshiroii
07-09-2004, 02:35 PM
Quizboy, That's a great idea! We all have some sort of idea, what it'll be like to be a profesional animator, but not what it is in reality, only the idea. It might be a good idea for the mentors to tell everyone what it's like.

alexandrecollac
07-09-2004, 02:50 PM
get the ferarri it will be more fun and youll get more chicks.

Yeaahh:thumbsup: , ...... but ill not have money to gas:cry:


Quizboy- Love the idea it will really help everybody.
In some "real" school of course u are going to learn lots of other subjects, and it can help with other works. But to be an animator, all this is needed. I see AM like an upgrade program specific for animation, but to be a really good animator i dont think it is enough lots of other backgrounds that are taught in the school are needed.

creative destructions
07-09-2004, 02:52 PM
Yeaahh:thumbsup: , ...... but ill not have money to gas:cry:


Set the thing to netural and we'll push your car around town. :thumbsup:

mmkelly011881
07-09-2004, 03:03 PM
great questions oshiroii
i await the answers as well


btw everybody and i don't want to discourage anyone but clock is right.. i think it's important to KNOW... as in KNOW KNOW that not everybody or even most of the people who go to school for animation (probably incl AM) end up getting jobs at major (pixar, ilm, disney, dreamworks, ghibli) studios.. there are some 50000 people that post on this site and at most (and please contradict me if i'm wrong because these numbers are disheartening), possibly 70-100 animators per show and several of them move around from studio to studio. so even if you are top of your class anywhere... still a large possibility that you will never get your dream job.


that being said.. i'm still working my ass off preparing and doing exercises and hope to be in AM :). they can give us the tools, the training and some nudges but the rest (and the rest is alot) is up to us.

keenasmustard
07-09-2004, 04:19 PM
OMG... I think I may pass out... I just typed out the world's longest post, and I hit something wrong, and the page disappeared while I was trying to edit it. I just hope it still comes up on here.. :eek:

Matias
07-09-2004, 05:50 PM
IMO, AnimationMentor will not be (in generally) like other online schools, or monthly paid sites. I think this is more personal, they will see your work, criticize it, and you will be able to start a kind of relationship (could be student-professor, or even maybe friend-friend, why not? :P) with lot of very talented people. And i think, this is the most important thing.
Now, about the price.... i dont really have any idea. Animation Mentor, its oriented to people for all over the world, as i know .. and this is fantastic, couse students and mentors will learn customs, ideas, points of views, hehe just great. The problem with this, is that every country has different dollar prices and for some people it will be cheap, and for others maybe too expensive.. but this always has been a problem, im sure animation mentor will try to do the best for all of us, and for them too.

im really anxious waiting more infooo, this could be the best possibility i could ever have.. and i think im not the only one!

greetings :).

PD:anxioussssssss :P lol

oshiroii
07-09-2004, 05:50 PM
mmkelly011881, I like to think that if I work super hard. Dedicate myself to 3d animation and actually dedicate myself to everything around cg, keep learning and trying new things. Make drawings and storyboards, do projects. I'll get pretty damn far. If I have a job in the future as an cg artist an I have fun and love to do it. I wouldn't care in which studio I'd be. I'll do my job,keep learning and developing my skillz, pass them on to other dedicated people and have fun. Of course I'll try to get to the bigger studios. But I can't expect to be in the big ones in one time. I'll have to start small. That's a fact and it's not too cool. Of course I want to be in the big once, that's why I'll send my resume/reel to every major studio each yaer. (that's not now, but in a couple of yaers from now) I'd like to think that with an attitude as this one. I can get far and eventually will be in a good place. If you work hard and do your most best to make qualiity stuff, now or then, someone will notice it adn you'll move on to a bigger company.

Sorry if I took this to personal :p Just had to say it.

EDIT, thanx mmkelly011881 I think them to be good questions as well, nobody asked them yet (the price thing is being asked a lot, but not in this way and in this context) And I'm really curious for the answers, since this are major important points :)

skelly6
07-09-2004, 07:26 PM
Because Animation Mentor is a "pure" animation program I think it's a good idea if the AM guys might share their insights into the inner workings of the industry in the life of an animator. I'm pretty sure that most people (including myself) who are trying to get into animation professionally don't really have a clear idea what it's like to work on a daily basis as an animator.

Hi Quizboy!

I did an "ask-a-pro" section at the cg-char forum (which was SUPER fun to do!) that answers questions about "life as an animator" as well as tons of animation-specific advice and stuff. Actually, Bobby and Carlos did ask-a-pro forums too! Anyway, if you guys want to check it out, it might answer some of this for you... The posts are really long, but we were careful to answer every question. Hopefully this helps, and it'll actually also give a good idea of the types of things we'll be teaching:

http://cgchar.toonstruck.com/forum/index.php?act=SF&f=11

Bentagon
07-09-2004, 07:47 PM
so much to read, and so little time :shrug: ...
I've read the first two pages of "boom"s thread up there last week, and I can tell you, I've learned some interesting things. I'd really encourage people to read these threads when they've got some time!

and I'm still awaiting the answers on oshiroii's questions ;)

- Bentagon

Quizboy
07-09-2004, 07:51 PM
Thanks for that, Shawn! i'll be reading be reading every single word...even if it takes...good god look at all those pages! Oh well, see you back here next week!

Your effort is very much appreciated.

alexandrecollac
07-10-2004, 01:11 AM
Hello Shawn, good thread in the cgchar i didnt read everything( very long posts), but ill do it later.
I would like if you talk about your experience at Academy of Art Institute, SF(that i was thinking as a choices). and your opinion about other schools and their focus and goals?
Just other question.
- U said that is a good choice to make school and AM together, for me it is impossible becouse of money, but i really would like to make both. So what do you think is better do do first AM or a Traditional School.


ohh i forgot, please read your private messages.

alexandrecollac
07-10-2004, 01:22 AM
Just another thing, this thread is only 12 post from the CGNews posts record:eek:


hheheh

Quizboy
07-10-2004, 01:50 AM
This from Shawn Kelly's extended dialogue on life as an animator in the heart of the effects industry. Over on CG-Char...an invaluable read folks:

That was all it said! I went off to college and studied film (I wanted to be a director at the time) but soon found that I loved writing, and I loved drawing (even though I'm crap at it), and I loved film, and I loved computers! I realized that if you cram all of those together, you end up with animation, so that's the direction I took.
My feelings exactly right now, I mean exactly...Shawn you're like a forward mirror of myself, I hope.
Now I don't feel like such an idiot that I aspire to be a director and love animation at the same time. Let's hope my life is as long as my passion!

effilang
07-10-2004, 01:57 AM
OMG...only 12 posts left... (11 now)

what are we waiting for we gotta etch this thread into the "POST HISTORY" stone slab of cg :scream:

lets seee...what to post what to post...

Animation Mentor sounds like a fantastic place to be. But we all know that Animation is only one part of CG work and the most common combination to come across now adays is an Artist who is equaly good in modeling aswell as animation. . . and althought its not mandatory everyone likes to be able to impress with his modeling skills aswell as his Animation ones.

Will there be any hopes of a Modeling institution with the likes of AM for the future? . . . .MM perhaps:rolleyes: . . er were those cigarattes already. lol

cheeerziooo

{EDIT} . . i guess you can make that 10 posts now...*looks at |Quizboy|*

jono338
07-10-2004, 02:29 AM
Not wanting to dampen anyone's enthusiam, because I'm just as excited about the prospects of what I think AM is / will be, and in the light of that brilliant quote from someone back in this thread <paraphrase> "If you want to be a filmaker, be a filmaker", I'd like to ask all those who are doing backflip-posts about how great all this is, "What are you doing now?".

It's easy to be excited ... and do nothing; as if AM is going to make it all happen for me, and all I have to do is wait, and ask when and how much and ...

So I've started to stop being excited, and start getting ready so when AM does start, I can hit the ground running, and if AM happens to be out of my budget, then at least for the couple of months that this thread will have been going on by then, I've been learning the animation software and animating my butt off!

Step one ... STOP MODELLING! Phew, what a relief it was to get over that one; wanting to animate my own characters / models.

Cheers,
Jonathan.

effilang
07-10-2004, 04:08 AM
nO offence and all jono but what did that have to do with anything?:rolleyes:

Bullseye
07-10-2004, 05:56 AM
I'm gonna have to jump in and defend jono on this one, I feel he made an extremely good point. This class isnt something that is just add water (AM) and you have yourself a brilliant animator. It is still up to that person to put in an incredible amount of effort. These mentors are going to help in any way they can, but it is us (the students) that hold the power to become great animators. Just had to throw my 2 cents in and declare that jonos post was a very relevant one, and something that everyone going into this program has to strongly think about. You need to have drive to get through this program. Those without it, will not benefit in the least.

Rock on Animation Mentor

If you want to be an animator, BE AN ANIMATOR!!

effilang
07-10-2004, 06:06 AM
Thats nice,but i just dont see why people have to make the same point over and over again.

The same principle goes for every Educational Institution and Work Place. If you dont work,you dont get paid. Wether its materialy or experientially it makes no difference.

mayakindaguy
07-10-2004, 07:36 AM
This is not to start a flame, but I understand where both you, Effi, and jono are coming from. It is something that's true and applicable to many things, but I believe it couldn't be emphasized enough especially with the cg industry and within the art schools around. This is because I myself see so much of people getting all hyped up about cool stuff like animationa and cg; thinking they're in love with it and not knowing that love takes commitment, dedication, and quite honestly a lot of work (u can take that in any way u want to).
Personally it was or rather still is really inspiring to hear someone like Shawn, whose already a seasoned animator at a major studio, talk about his love and desire for animation as well as his endless thirst for knowledge to improve his artform. I guess what I'm saying is we all know what this desire is generally, but are we really digging within ourselves to be open, learn, and realize the full potential that we have. I'm kind of a kornball sci-fi geek in some aspects so I'll throw in a Dune quote, "Has the sleeper awaken?!!!" and are you able to keep this enthusiasm because in such a competive industry or world for that matter, this is what separates ninjas from the everyday folk and even ninjas from Hokage to junin and chunin.

Well, anyhoo this is just a friendly reminder for all u great ninjas out there that a good ninja needs a good brain, but a great ninja needs a great heart also. (damn I really suck at those proverbeal<-is that a real word? quotes)
Okay! just...lemme see...alex said 12 posts...so 1,2,3etc. plus mine makes 7...and 12-7=5...Oh!!! just 5 more posts guys!

creative destructions
07-10-2004, 09:27 AM
Is there a beta program for people of interests to register? Starting an educational facility is hardly a simple thing to do. Having been a student for so many years, typically anything that could go wrong usually does. What assurance do students have if anything does go wrong, that blame doesn't fall directly on them? If the pricing is around $30,000, what guarantee do people have that they will all make it to completion? What happens if somebody misses a class? Have connection problems? Are there penalties? Will there be refund for people who wish to drop out of the course midway? Sorry if I'm being cynical, I can see people being excited if completion means a job opputunity to work at Pixar, ILM, etc, but if this program only teaches the basics of animation, it may be to high a hope for dreamers to think they'll have a guaranteed offer at Pixar, ILM, etc, when even now, those places have high requirements, requiring several years of work experience, and several years of working with a major animation package like, Maya, XSI, Lightwave, etc. Again, sorry for being cynical, if animation mentor is what I think it is. A traditional art school with big name animator backers and not a free card to work at Pixar, ILM, etc. Prehaps somebody should state that in big bold letters and not to raise confusion on what other things it could be.

^Abe^
07-10-2004, 09:45 AM
Just posting towards History!

:bounce: just three more to go :bounce:

oshiroii
07-10-2004, 10:03 AM
jono338, who are you gonna animate if you don't have your own character?
just wondering y know... A big part of the animation proses includes the modeling and rigging. How will u animate without that. We all know you have to work for it. If you read all 31 pages and I'm sure you did, these kinda posts have been posted a lot. And we all know it's true, I just like to be excited, I'm working my ass of as an 3d artist, but I like to stay excited :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
I believe that making and developing the character is part of the animation. You make up the story behind the character and give him a character. This is much more fun to animate. Of course you can animate joints and bones without any skin, but that wouldn't be much fun I think

Shawn, thanks for the link I'll read it all!

Shiroii, N0 ANSWERS? O_o :cry: :cry: I had some pretty good questions there!!! O_o (don't want to push you guys and N0, I'm not impationt)

Quizboy
07-10-2004, 10:53 AM
Let's bump us closer to CGTalk history by re-posting the link to Shawn's pretty personal inside look at life inside the animation industry (for those who don't want to go bac a page to search for it):

http://cgchar.toonstruck.com/forum/...php?act=SF&f=11

I think this realistic look at what it's like can really help a lot of us decide if this is really what we want to commit ourselves to do. Long read, but worth it - I'm still working my way through Shawn's 7 pages of posts, and then there's still Bobby Beck's and Carlos Baena's to get thru! Have Fun!

oshiroii
07-10-2004, 02:42 PM
Dear people from animation master.
Some time ago another quistion popped into my head. I know this is question number five, but h. I though:"wait a minute, character animation, hmm, what about more characters."
what if you'd had two character walking to eachother giving eachother a hand or like 5 more character walking about, how to aproach it? If you look at the already existing DVD's (I know this is a school but still) they don't tell you how to aproach it. Jeff lew just talk about CA in general and still for one character. I've just seen that the gnomon character animation DVD III has a two character scene, but I havn't seen it yet, and I'm wondering anyhow.
Most of the time it's all about one character not more characters. I'd like to see how you guys do that kinda stuff. Since that's what you'll have to do a lot in the industry. I personally think you could animate a frame for one character and then another for the second. But you might as well do the first one completely (rough version) And then the second one. Is there some kind of special progress how the people in the industry do this kind of thing? I believe sometimes there are multople animators involved for differant characters, while they're all in the same scene? I suppose it might as well be included (if it's not already)

Another thing I wondered while writing this is:"how far will you go?"
What if we wanted to animate a croud or a flog of birds. Say you want to do the birds, will there be an explenation how to do this with a particle system, while still being able to control al the characters (particle instances) apart from eachother. This is quite advanced and you'll need some programing knowledge. Animators need programing knowledge like MEL too, right? QUESTION: The basic question is. What will be the level of advanceness. I mean we know A is the basic. Well B I can imagine, but what will be discussed in C and D.

Hope to hear from you soon and get some nice anwers :D

shiroii

alexandrecollac
07-10-2004, 06:52 PM
:sad: Sorry, i miss the point. We need more 4 post to the record, someone post in the "MODO: Q&A with Brad Peebler (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114579)" this week. Well have to fight for this.:banghead:


About this discussion about start to animate and try things, i think it is all redundant, everybody knows it,or almost, so jono if u are goig to start to animate right now, ok, congrats and good luck :thumbsup:. And about working the ass of as an 3d artist like oshiroii said, great, i just want to give one peace of advice, im not the best one to say but ill try, it is not about being a 3d artist it is about being an artist, the media doesnt matter, to be a 3d artist you need to be an artist first it is not only to know the program. And it is the same for animation, someone said this in other way. I was reading the Richard Willians book "Animator Survival Toolkit" (very good, i recomend) trying to start my studies in animation and in the begining he "tolds me":
-if u want to learn to animate first learn to draw, really learn to draw.
So i turn of the 3DMax and start just to draw first before going to the animate thing in fact. Im saying all this crap becouse sometimes i see guys trying to go direct to the best part (animate) and forgeting the background around this. How youll ever run if you dont even know how to walk?
Im not saying that you need to know to darw (im not very good in this) or act or anything to be an animator, but every background you have its going to make you a better professional and a better anomator. Maybe every body knows this but i just needed to say.

Sorry to long post.

:bounce: :bounce: We are almost in the posts record, lets flood this thread. And every day we are closer to the AM begining.:bounce:

skelly6
07-10-2004, 09:22 PM
ding
...Most of the time it's all about one character not more characters. I'd like to see how you guys do that kinda stuff. Since that's what you'll have to do a lot in the industry...

...What will be the level of advanceness. I mean we know A is the basic. Well B I can imagine, but what will be discussed in C and D.

shiroii The full syllabi will be announced later - as we get closer to launch - so we can't really get into it yet, but I *can* say that we will definitely be teaching ways to handle multiple interacting characters!

As for a general answer to your question, though, yeah - if the characters don't really interact physically or emotionally, sometimes we'll rough them all in one at a time. If they interact physically you'll have to rough in their poses all at once, and if they interact emotionally you'll at least have to rough in their timings together (maybe do a couple seconds of one character, then a couple seconds of the other, then go back to refining the first, etc). Unless one character stricly reacts (rather than acts) to the other - in that case you could probably fully animate the first character by itself and then put in the second "reacting" character...

gotta jam! Have fun!

Sorry we can't answer all of your questions - we're still a little ways off from announcing *all* of the cool stuff! :)

shawn ;)

alexandrecollac
07-10-2004, 10:51 PM
Shawn Kelly, what kind of courses, like Drawning, acting,... do you think that will be good for us to do toguether with AM.

RayenD
07-10-2004, 11:31 PM
because I'm just as excited about the prospects of what I think AM is / will be, and in the light of that brilliant quote from someone back in this thread <paraphrase> "If you want to be a filmaker, be a filmaker", I'd like to ask all those who are doing backflip-posts about how great all this is, "What are you doing now?".
Just ended rigging a character :eek: (this is my job) who (and bunch of his buddies) I'll animate (this is my job too) later next week and next 8 months or so. :thumbsup:

I hope AM will help me to get to the best part (animation) quicker. I mean, I don't really enjoy rigging.
Personally I am interested in this course because I think it will take me to the core of the stuff I love.

I am sure there will be a lot of people at AM (I believe that at the beginning the majority) who are already working in animation/CG, just because we love to talk to each other and learn new things from each other. For some of us it's more like a religion and I won't say that AM may become an international church :twisted: .

P.S. I also like founders attitude. Sometimes people in this industry become grumpy (for many different reasons, this is not the easiest career path in the world) and cynical and forget that it's all about fun and making people smile. AM founders still seem to have fun. That thing itself makes AM worth my interest.

Just keeping my fingers crossed that prices won't be too high.

oshiroii
07-11-2004, 12:17 AM
Thanx Shawn! I'm reading the stuff on CGchar at the moment. I've read two pages of your thread and 2 from bobby's. I already learned quite some stuff. The drawing method sounds really good and pretty smart. I'll try that out for myself :thumbsup: As for my own questions. I read some more stuff and kinda figured out that in the C and D, which are more advanced, there'll be stuff like more compicated graphs, complicated secondary motions and moving holds, also facial animation (and I assume facial set-ups) and of course the multiple characters.

I think it's very nice you'll have some lessons about multiple characters interacting. :thumbsup:Thanks for the insight info about multiple character information. I suppose there'll be some more info about animation at CGchar's You already gave some good info there, thanx! By reading that, I get really a loooooot more confidence about AM, just check out bobby speaking about it :drool:Seems like you really know a lot of stuff, but I could have expected that :D and I did :p

I'll be awaiting the announcement of the cool stuff. Will they be soon? That'd be really nice :)

skelly6
07-11-2004, 12:47 AM
...I hope AM will help me to get to the best part (animation) quicker. I mean, I don't really enjoy rigging. ...

P.S. I also like founders attitude. Sometimes people in this industry become grumpy (for many different reasons, this is not the easiest career path in the world) and cynical and forget that it's all about fun and making people smile. AM founders still seem to have fun....
Yup - we'll be providing professionally rigged characters for our students to work with. Animation is our passion, and we wanted people to have the chance to *really* concentrate on the art of animation. Modelling, rigging, lighting, etc - these are all very important, rewarding, and complex jobs in their own right. While high-end skills in those areas can be useful in getting a job in games or smaller commercials houses, they won't help you a bit as far as becoming a character animator in a feature studio, so we focus 100% on the animation.

We see a lot of students who simply haven't been allowed the time to properly focus on their specialty (in fact, it's usually difficult to tell if animation even *is* their specialty), and part of the goal of AM is to provide that opportunity to students, as well as professionals looking to grow in their art and move up.

As far as "having fun" goes - I couldn't agree more! To us, if it isn't fun anymore, what's the point? One of the coolest things about a career in character animation is that it'll never get boring (different challenges with every movie, every character, and even every shot) and you can *never* learn all there is to learn about it. So there's always room to grow! What could be more fun than that!? :)

over and out

shawn ;)

keithlango
07-11-2004, 05:27 AM
One of the coolest things about a career in character animation is that it'll never get boring (different challenges with every movie, every character, and even every shot) and you can *never* learn all there is to learn about it. So there's always room to grow! What could be more fun than that!? :)

I've sometimes wondered if bathing in boiling liquid cheese might not be more fun than animating. But I only have those thoughts after I've had to animate on top of mo-cap. :D

-k

RayenD
07-11-2004, 11:00 AM
Keith, I had the same feeling when I had to finish a shot a hour after my kid was born. :eek:

But it's still fun and I am think I am addicted to it.

keenasmustard
07-11-2004, 11:25 AM
Hi guys! I was wondering if the people at AM could possibly point us in the right direction of what we can do to best prepare ourselves before commencing the course? Can you perhaps make a list of some online tutorials or drawing exercises etc?

There is one thing that is lurking in the back of my mind, and it's something that several people have touched on in their posts. The issue is the fact that we won't be learning any modelling or rigging in the course. I certainly understand the philosophy behind having a rigged character ready to go, so we can learn pure animation. The idea of having our own little puppet to add life to, without getting bogged down with the technicalities that lead to his creation, makes sense. I'm very creative at heart, and I personally find the software and tutorials quite daunting, frustrating and uninspiring at times.

The concern I have however, is that although many of us have the dream of being an animator (and an animator alone), the reality is that if (and I dare to say when) we get a job, it's likely to be with a small studio. From what I've gleaned from some of the resumes of the pros out there, they started somewhere small before they went on to the likes of Pixar, ILM etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but small studios don't have all of the production roles dealt out to individuals. Often the "animator" will do modelling, shading, rigging etc too. Isn't that correct? I mean, for example: I've read that we don't need any knowledge of software or modelling or rigging to do AM. So we graduate from the course, extremely well educated by the masters of the animation business. Hopefully we'll have a kick-ass reel, which we take to an employer, but then when we get put in front of the pc, they discover that we can't model or rig etc. Won't we be too specialised for the general industry out there?

I'm not sure if I've missed the point of the aims of AM? Are you really targetting people that already know a 3D package back-to-front, can model and rig, but now need to learn how to animate well? Are you really targetting people to only get jobs with the bigger studios? I seriously doubt that, as I know one of the underlying passions that I've seen Bobby in particular mention numerous times, is the ability to bring this opportunity to people from all over the world. Outside of the USA, and from little of what I've gleaned of the UK, the production houses are much smaller, and/or few and far between. So once again, we'd be facing the necessity of being multi-skilled.

If I'm way off the mark with any of these thoughts, please enlighten me! My suggestion is that perhaps you can point us in the right direction of some decent online tutorials or books we can purchase, that we can study before and during AM. Maybe a pre-course preparation guide could be put together?

Please don't take me the wrong way with this post! I certainly value the opportunity to be in contact with and to learn from some amazingly talented people. I, like so many others on here, can't wait for it all to start! I'm also looking from the realistic perspective of jobhunting down the track. :)

mmkelly011881
07-11-2004, 03:31 PM
for anyone looking for animation practice it might be a good idea to look over in the animation section of CGTALK (yep, it's not only for news and random postings) and join in on animation session 7 "Suspense"

3dSnail
07-11-2004, 03:38 PM
hey mr kelly,

wheres the animation session?...i cant finds it :shrug:

Cheers

keenasmustard
07-11-2004, 03:45 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=152083&highlight=suspense

I'm pretty sure that's it Snail.

alexandrecollac
07-11-2004, 04:27 PM
If I'm way off the mark with any of these thoughts, please enlighten me! My suggestion is that perhaps you can point us in the right direction of some decent online tutorials or books we can purchase, that we can study before and during AM. Maybe a pre-course preparation guide could be put together?


Some good books that i have:
- "Animation Survival Toolkit" from Richard Willians -he was the director of "Who Framed Roger Rabit", very good and pratical, lots of examples of walkcicles) and
- "The Illusion of Life" from Frank Thomas ad Ollie Jonhson - Talks everything about Disney an the discovery of the animation principles.

keenasmustard
07-11-2004, 04:37 PM
Thanks Alex. Yep I recently bought The Animator's Survival Kit and found it's worth every cent I paid for it. I'm about to move to the US and as we have to import Illusion of Life, I'm going to wait 'til I get there to buy that one. (VERY expensive here!)

oshiroii
07-11-2004, 04:58 PM
keenasmustard, Shawn, Bobby

Damn, I had like a major big ass post (again) but after writing it I moved myself in your position and thought "Hmmz, you want to learn to animate and nothing else, that's why you do AM" I personally think that this is a good thing, AM is about animation. Everyone who is serious about it should do it, everyone who is not .... :shrug: gheghe
I think that besides spending a lot of money on AM, you should buy yourselfs some Gnomon DVd's or some DigitalTutors DVD's. Just to be sure you are capable of making your own character and rigg it. I think it'll improve your animation skillz a lot too. You'll have more insight on the process before that, after you've done it a few times, you can just use your character over and over again. And luckely oshiroii can do this :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

Shawn or Bobby, What is your communication level between the different groups. Do the model, rig, animate and render groups meet before making anything?

RayenD
07-11-2004, 05:29 PM
Hey Keenasmustard!

I am in CG/animation for many years, this is my main and only source of income, so maybe my word will be worth 2 cents.
I am in a part of the world in which there is no big studios, so I do only freelance/small studios thing :).

You are 100% right about smaller studios wanting you to do pretty much everything.
You will have to rig, animate, model, sometimes texture. You may be asked to do some technical animation, particles and what not.

It's good and bad. Good because you learn the whole production process. Bad, because you cannot focus.

I think there is only a few studios in whole world, mostly located in US/UK in which you can only animate. I know only few very rare persons who got the job in such studio just after school. Most of them had intership with the particular company before they were hired.

Working in a large company basically requires from you to have some production experience. Teamwork skills, how you handle critique and direction (directing people aren't nice sometimes - they don't have to be, if something in your work sucks they will tell you straight), how you can handle large amount of stress, how quickly you can adapt, how fast you work etc. are I think almost as important as your animation/modelling/whatever skills. It's much easier to do things at home or school than under high production pressure.
Be sure to leave your ego at home and prepare to work 2 or 3 times faster than you have been taught/worked at home. I've seen many, many talented people who have failed at it.

So, back to AM. I can tell you what I think, this is of course speculation, because AM is not tested by anyone outside founders team ;).

If you are beginner, you need to be 1000% sure that animation is what you want to do. Again 1000%. There is no way back. You need to live, sleep and have kids with animation (don't forget about real life though, hehe). Then, with strong fundamentals which AM for sure will give you, you have a good start to start learning.

With AM you will have much better start than for example me, because you won't waste your time (months, years) reinventing the wheel, making mistakes, forgetting bad habits etc.

But AM is not a some magical device which will give you job at Pixar, ILM or Animators From Mars ;) (I don't know who started that rumor anyway ;)). I believe that if someone tries to attend AM (ofrany other course for that matter|) only to find a contact at some particular company will fail miserably.

So, if can can give you my little advice.. go to art/CG school and take AM course concurrently. Or learn on your own things which AM won't teach you (like rigging, modelling etc), but concentrate (like devote 80-90% of your learning time) on animation/AM course. Then if you get hired by smaller/less specialized studio, you won't be staring blindly at monitor when they ask you to make a simple rig then you will make a kick aaa animation!. It will up your chances of finding job a lot. As I said there is only a few studios in whole world who hire pure animators and usually they require some sort of prouction experience.

Of course all of the above may be wrong, AM might be a whole different than I think, but that's what I'd do if I'd be starting in CG today.

alexandrecollac
07-11-2004, 08:42 PM
RayenD - Tankx for the advice. I agree in most with u, the world out there is a jungle and not easy and is better to be prepared for everything in case your dreams didt come true so fast.


Just for History whe have the Post Record :eek:
Animation mentor 482 x 470 MODO: Q&A with Brad Peebler (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114579)
:bounce: :bounce:

oshiroii
07-11-2004, 11:20 PM
RayenD, amen :thumbsup:

barpoet
07-12-2004, 12:12 AM
I am already studying Max at a private college in Sydney, www.madacademy.com.au (http://www.madacademy.com.au/) , but this school is the thing dreams are made of..... lets hope its not like Kamp Krusty .... with MR Black as a teacher :)

keenasmustard
07-12-2004, 02:22 AM
RayenD: Thank you very much for your informative answer. I will definately take on board what you've said.

Barpoet: Hey what's that course like? (I know it's extremely expensive) I've looked at doing it myself, but in a different state. I'm about to move to the US for a couple of years, so I wouldn't be looking at doing it 'til I get back now... but I'd be really interested to hear your feed back!

jono338
07-12-2004, 02:52 AM
jono338, who are you gonna animate if you don't have your own character?
just wondering y know... A big part of the animation proses includes the modeling and rigging. How will u animate without that. We all know you have to work for it. If you read all 31 pages and I'm sure you did, these kinda posts have been posted a lot. And we all know it's true, I just like to be excited, I'm working my ass of as an 3d artist, but I like to stay excited :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
I believe that making and developing the character is part of the animation. You make up the story behind the character and give him a character. This is much more fun to animate. Of course you can animate joints and bones without any skin, but that wouldn't be much fun I think

Shawn, thanks for the link I'll read it all!

Shiroii, N0 ANSWERS? O_o :cry: :cry: I had some pretty good questions there!!! O_o (don't want to push you guys and N0, I'm not impationt)
There are plenty of free models out there. There are a whole bunch of models right here on cgtalk if you go looking, they look pretty cool to me. It's just about focusing on what I want to be best at, animating, and I don't need the "Perfect" model to practice animating on.

keenasmustard
07-12-2004, 03:28 AM
Oops, thanks too to Oshiroii and for your input. I think the Gnomon videos will be the way to go.

skelly6
07-12-2004, 05:23 PM
Shawn or Bobby, What is your communication level between the different groups. Do the model, rig, animate and render groups meet before making anything?

Sure, there is definitely a lot of collaboration between groups, particularly among the leads. From an animation point of view, the lead would hook up with the other groups to ensure that the character will be able to move in the ways he'll need to move, test out the controls, request new ones, etc...

oshiroii
07-12-2004, 09:02 PM
jono338, yes it is true, you can download. But wouldn't have had the experience of modeling and riggin it and preparing it for animation, which I think you need to do fully at least once. If you already did, download away and animate! :D

skelly6, thanks for the answer. I suppose this says enough about not only focusing on animation, at least 10% should track of what's happening in the other worlds. The other 90 % should animate like madman and become super good :thumbsup: I guess that after you've witnessed the rigging and modeling part, you could drop it and only animate.

Bobby and Shawn, I took your advise and I'm trying some 2d animation. It's pretty hard, since you can only see 2 frames animated at a time, I still have to practise a lot to flip 3 images trough my fingers. But after doing only a bouncing ball from this tutorial (http://www.awn.com/tooninstitute/lessonplan/bounceball.htm) I already saw, what's so special about 2D, you really need to plan ahead and set the important keys and then some inbetweens, and later the rest. So you can get the timing and placement right. In 3d animation you can just move a character a few cm if you want, you don't want to do that in 2D and be busy redrawing a lot of frames :D
I got pretty much convinced by bobby after reading his stuff over at cgchar's. In 2d you're also paying more attantion to things like squash and stretch etc, since you have to draw every frame, no computer to calculate it for you. So right now, I'm scanning the images and putting it in the right order and see how it looks :thumbsup:

-shiroii

^Abe^
07-12-2004, 10:22 PM
I have found Plastic Animation Paper plasticanimationpaper.dk (www.plasticanimationpaper.dk) really good for 2d animation, and best of all PAP:shareware is free! Although it has some cool features disabled that are only available to the rich people who can afford the proffesional versions of the software. You really need a Wacom tablet to use it properly. I read a post by someone on the PAP forum that said that small Wacom Tablets (6x8 in their case) are virtualy useless in the program.

That said PAP rocks, ROCKS!

:) :twisted: :)

My_Fault
07-12-2004, 10:38 PM
I have found Plastic Animation Paper plasticanimationpaper.dk
really good for 2d animation, and best of all PAP:shareware is free! Although it has some cool features disabled that are only available to the rich people who can afford the proffesional versions of the software. You really need a Wacom tablet to use it properly. I read a post by someone on the PAP forum that said that small Wacom Tablets (6x8 in their case) are virtualy useless in the program.
That said PAP rocks, ROCKS!

:) :twisted: :)
PAP really comes alive on a Tablet PC. Plus I think it has the single best interface of any program I've ever encountered. I just wish it were a wee bit cheaper for the Broadcast version as the extra features are really nice. The TAB is another nice 2d animation program.

And I can't wait for Animation Mentor to open it's doors!

furryspork
07-12-2004, 11:15 PM
I use PAP shareware with my 6x8 tablet almost every day and I've never had a problem. I only use it for practice so I don't use the whole area of the screen, so I guess if you wanted to make something full screen it might be difficult with a smaller tablet, I dunno. PAP shareware is definately a great program to use for practice since it's free, and, most importantly for me, it doesn't have the system requirements of a lot of the 3D software out there. I pay so much money to use great computers in the lab at school that I don't have the money for a new computer at home. Since I can't really run any 3D programs (I could, but they run so slow there's really no point in trying), I've started practicing 2D animation. PAP makes it so easy because I can use my tablet and I don't have to scan anything or take pictures while keeping the camera still for a long time.

I think that practicing 2D has helped me understand a lot of things that were unclear to me when I was trying to learn 3D on my own. I would definately recommend downloading PAP and trying it, especially if you've never done any 2D animation before. PAP makes it really easy, and best of all, unlike pencil and paper, you still have ctrl Z for when you screw up. :D

alexandrecollac
07-12-2004, 11:47 PM
Plastic Animation Paper, ill try it, but idont have a tablet.
i can use it without a tablet, only with scanned pictures??

^Abe^
07-13-2004, 02:11 AM
I use PAP shareware with my 6x8 tablet almost every day and I've never had a problem.
Great! I only included that info because I have a very large tablet and thought that it would be good idea to let people know that I heard that .

Plastic Animation Paper, ill try it, but idont have a tablet.
i can use it without a tablet, only with scanned pictures??
I've tried to import pictures into PAP but have not been succesful so far (although I can import layouts) You can use a mouse with PAP but that is like trying to draw with a brick.

alexandrecollac
07-13-2004, 02:41 AM
I've tried to import pictures into PAP but have not been succesful so far (although I can import layouts) You can use a mouse with PAP but that is like trying to draw with a brick.
hehee. I heard here in cgtalk once "Drawing with a mouse is like drawing with a bar of soup" (dont remember who). Yes for sure it is impossible.

mmkelly011881
07-13-2004, 03:09 AM
why not just scan them in and bring them into premier (if you have it)... are there any freeware video editing tools that allow you to import frames?

^Abe^
07-13-2004, 07:44 AM
Personally I think if you don't have a graphics tablet it would be a heck of a lot faster and more satisfying to learn to manually flip the pages. Otherwise you would have spend ages scanning the drawings in before you saw any animation.

oshiroii
07-13-2004, 11:49 AM
^Abe^ I've tried that, but what if you have a lot of papers and a lot of big papers, not just small things like an A6 or something. You got any tips, I've already got problems with 3 of them, but I started only yesterday so :p

PAP is a nice program, but only for tablet people, If you don't have one, screw you! It's imposible to draw a circle with a mouse withing one second :( Well, it actaully worked a bit for me, I had this flash project on school and I drew like almost everysingle frame and I had a really cool animation. It took like 3 weeks and that's 6 hours, but it looked really cool. Flash does smooth up your lines though.

Matt, (do you mind if I call you Matt? Since mmkelly011881 is just a bit :p ) Is this posible in Premier? That'd be cool, but I don't have a liscence :sad:
I've searched for some freeware programs, but most of them were crap. I only want to composite my scanned images and play them at the desired framerate. There must be something :argh: ?
If anyone knows a program, send it! Thanks you!

-shiroii