Page Curl Using SplineControl

[Bytehawk]

nice one. thanks

[mdunakin]

Thanx, and I only hope it "helps" people out, as it has been "vitually" ignored by the general public and people who make tutorials.

Even NewTek has barely even touched on the subject.
I do everything now a days that needs to be moved along an editable path, using this thing.

.........................md :)

[Bytehawk]

I once thought about doing something similar with morphs. But it didn't work out and I put the project aside for a cold winter evening. I might get back into it an complete it with your excellent tutorial. Cheers,

[mdunakin]

Thanx, and I'd like to see your morph version, if you figure it and all. I know that there are lots of ways to get the same things done, so it's always fun to see another method work.

Anyway, someone in the NewTek newsgroup pointed out that the link to the image didn't work quite right.

It only worked in IE, but not in Netscape or Mozilla.
I saved it out again with the .jpg added and that fixed it.
http://www.md-arts.com/PageCurl_SplineControl_Render_1.jpg

Enjoy! :)

[uncommongrafx]

I'm curilous, you two:
how does this compare with the inertia way of doing it? You know, put a weight map on the page, flip it with a rotate and add inertia to it controlled by the weightmap.

I like the spline, Mark. I really need to start playing with splines more. And will. :scream:

Morphs just sound tedious. :surprised

[mdunakin]

I haven't actually tried that method yet, but I would want to know how it would work inconjunction with using a morph map.
Because you'd need one if you were to have it at it's resting position in an open book. I think, that is?


http://www.md-arts.com/SplineControlPageFlip_Render_1.jpg

P.S. If anyone wants the SplineBook files, I'll post `em up?

[scotttygett]

It's sounds like an interesting plug-in.

The morph method of doing this is to create a page, save it, and then morph it partway turned, and save that version as another object, and then completely turn it, and save that version. When you load the morphs, you do an old fashioned "MTSE" instead of "Morph Mixing."

It doesn't have to be too complicated, if you're working with quads, but remember to set sub-d order to whatever works in Layout, I think it's last...

In case someone comes here looking for the info,...

In my experience, this method isn't scott-proof, because with multiple pages (a book), the morph has to be animated on two or three parented sets of Nulls to account for the shifting binding. Even with a clip-board, this can turn into a mess otherwise...

[mdunakin]

scott tygett, yes.

I have already had a sample of doing it that way at my site for several years.
If anyone wants it, just follow the link at the bottom of this message and look under the Downloads section.
It's the first one there, I think.

I just never bothered to make a tutorial for it, as IMO it's far too tedious for any practical use. If you need to make any changes, you're screwed.
But, if you like it how it is, then it's fine.
The one I have at my site, which looks like the book above, is all done with the "MTSE" method.

There "IS" however, a MAJOR screw up with saving the SplineControl out.
I wasted half the day yesterday trying to find a "decent" workaround and so far I haven't.

Which sort of waste's the point in even using the SplineControl.
But, I haven't yet given up, as I still have a couple of ideas to try out.

So, my other suggest would be to use the ShiftSplineControl, which can be found at Flay.
Look at the samples they give you and work from there.

At least as far as I know, when you save out a scene using that plugin, it always loads back in the same way you saved it out before.
Personally, I can't see why this hasn't been fixed.
I've also had someone else confirm that it still acts the same way in 8, so that tells me no one ever bothered to even make sure it worked correctly, i.e. being able to save it out and THEN reload that scene and have it be the same way as you saved it.

I guess, that NewTek didn't think anyone was using it for anything, or something? So why bother with it?
That's the only thing I can think of why they wouldn't pay any attention to it?

Anyway, I'm gonna try out a couple of other things to see if that'll save it out properly, as it seems to me, when I first tried this plugin, I used to be able to save it out and reload it back in and have it still work as before.

maybe it has to do with the axis? Like maybe it can ONLY be used on a certain axis or something, in order to be able to be saved out properly?

Don't know what's up with it yet though.

I'll be back with whatver my final findings are.

............................md :)

[uncommongrafx]

Mark,
I think your findings will bare out what it has for most : Fi's version of this is just superior and no more time need be spent on the SplineControl that comes with lw as it's just lame.

[mdunakin]

Yep.
I pretty much just use IT now a days.
But, I'm also the type of person who "tries" to make things that come standard with LW, to work.

Cuz for the main reason, that a lot of these 3rd party plugins some times dissapear, or the text is in some other language or something and they don't explain it well enough.

I know it took me a little while with screwing with it a bit before I finally figured out, that those little handles do absolutely nothing, and the only way you can adjust the spline, is by using the normal XYZ and HPB axis'. Unless you've figured out how to grab the handles and make them work, as they appear to be meant to do?

Personally, I would've thought that NewTek would have bought out that much beetter plugin instead and used it, just like they bought out a few other plugins that were hangin around.

But, I'm also glad they didn't, as this makes it still free for all of us :)

.........................md :)

[scotttygett]

Without beating a dead horse, isn't there a tutorial in someone's book on doing this with IK bones?

This page turning thing would probably benefit from a CGTalk search.

[uncommongrafx]

Actually, the book I'm thinking of uses the technique I spoke of: The LW 6.5/7.x Project Handbook, Patrik Bek, pg. 358.
The best technique I've seen as it's as much a sim as anything else. That is to say, I make it and assign its 'real world attributes' and I get what I want just from a keyframed movement in layout.
And Mark, I'm with you on the ALL lw effects. I have a lot of plugs that go unused nowadays because of the learning that has occured. But there are the mainstays like Relativity, TransMotion and my lil' ole Shave that will always have a place.
I'm about to settle down and learn lw all over again. This is going to be fascinating. I already think I know a lot. hehe But that's gonna change in a week.
Looking for work,

[mdunakin]

scott tygett: wrote:
Without beating a dead horse, isn't there a tutorial in someone's book on doing this with IK bones?

This page turning thing would probably benefit from a CGTalk search.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
yep, this subject has been brought up before on a section on this page turing thing, but there isn't one on using the Spline Control.

Other then that one I posted up about the PageFlipBook thing a few months ago. Which showed this same or similar thing.
But back then, I didn't know how to fix the screw ups that SplineControl does when you save it.
Now I know, and things are fine.
Just ONLY use the Z axis to make your Spline on, and things will be fine.
Also, I think there was the famous one that shows the PageFlipping thingy for a magazine.
OK, found it here:
http://forums.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/16991.html

That's a great tutorial too.
I also like the Page Roll by Proton.
Haven't tried that one yet with the SplineControl, so I don't know if it would work out right or not?

............md :)

[mdunakin]

OK, I just made a quick test, and yep!
You can use the SplineControl to roll a page too.
No more need for bones.

http://www.md-arts.com/PageRoll_SplineControl_Render_1.jpg
http://www.md-arts.com/PageRoll_SplineControl_Render_2.jpg
http://www.md-arts.com/PageRoll_SplineControl_Render_3.jpg

And the files for it also:
http://www.md-arts.com/PageRoll_SplineControl_Files.zip

And of course, if you wanted to make it more detailed and/or smooth, you'd just add more nodes to the SplineControl.
And you could also spend some time and have the shape of the spline change over time to give it some more realism.

..................md :)

[policarpo]

Looks cool.

Can you use the Spline Control to animate multiple objects in a scene...just wondering how you would handle a multipage book with the plug-in?

Any thoughts?

[mdunakin]

Once I've setup one page, I'd clone it a few times and then save out each one individually with different names.
Then load each into Modeler to rename the surfaces.
Then reload them back in.
Now just open the graph editor for each page and set the times for each page by selecting all curves and then dragging them on the time line to where you want then to start flipping.

At least, that's how I'd probably start.

..........................md :)

[policarpo]

so if you needed to flip 20 or 30 pages this is what you would do?

any chance you could tie the whole thing to an expression to make it less of a headache?

[mdunakin]

Sorry, but I don't know expression at all.
Though, it still seems to me that no matter how you go about it, you would still have to change the surfaces names differently for each page anyway. And that's the parts thats a pain.
The Layout part of it, would take a few minutes to setup, once you have your first page setup.

............................md ;)

[policarpo]

Very cool...keep us posted.

:beer:

[Willax]

Md I have been trying to perfect a page turn for quite some time because it is a staple in my video production business. However, my results could use some refining. I like your method as opposed to mine. (I used bones) It has been a real pain to set area of influence for the bones and weight maps, etc, but it looks like yours works much smoother. Any chance of putting a tut on your site with this procedure?

[TYROT]

dear mdunakin

I know this is almost 2 years old thread...man we are all getting old.

I was really turning pages of my Life! with Bones, this really helped me alot. Thanks mate..Sorry i was a bit late:)

Best

[adrencg]

I've found that using a sequence of morphs is the best way to do something that is complicated, but short in duration...so an elaborate rig setup is not in order.

I animated an entire nerve-sparing prostate surgery in this fashion. The huge network of nerves and veins, along with the fact that layers of tissue needed to be snipped and removed (and it all needed to be one shot) led me to try animating the whole thing in model, like you would claymation. Page turning would be simple compared to this.

Open your vertex map panel(F8). Make your first morph. call it x.01. Xelect the morph in the VMAP panel and copy the morph. Name x.02. Make your changes. And so on.

In layout add morph mixer to the object. Here's the tricky part. The morphs need to criss-cross each other through the sequence(there's a plugin that does all of this, I prefer the old-school way).

Let's say there's an increment of 10 frames between each morph. Go 10 frames on the timeline. Hold Shift + Ctrl and and hit the K button in the morph sliders panel on x.01. A keyframe has been made for all morphs at frame 10.

Go to frame 20. Shift + Crtl click the K button on morph x.01 again. The slider has jumped back to 0 %. Drag x.02 to 100.

If you repeat this process, when you play back everything, sliders will criss-cross values, all the way down the panel through the animation. When one is going up, the previous one will be on its way back down.

I only animate in modeler like this when it looks like an animtion setup is just going to be too time consuming. Changing things can be hard, but I'm used to this technique and work through just about any problem that arises.

Mike

[mdunakin]

Thanx guys, and YES I already had made the tutorial a long time ago,
but had to take it down, since there was a bug with the SplineControl.
But!, it has now been fixed finally in the 8.5 version,
so now I can repost up that tutorial for you.
Refering to the PageFlipBook tutorial.

I'll get it posted later today and let you know when I do.
Sound good?

...........................md :)


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