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jjburton
07-18-2002, 09:47 PM
I'm an animation student trying to learn how to do it. My professor told me that I need to learn to do traditional animation before going to 3d animation.

I'm looking for the cheapest/best traditional animation software that will allow me to just play around with traditional animation with my computer and my graphics tablet (I don't want to have to scan cells).

I've found a piece of software called Flipbook (http://www.digicelinc.com/) that looks pretty good, but I don't know if it's the best route to go. If anyone has used it, please let me know how you like it or if someone has a better route to go, I'm all ears:).

Thanks guys, this is the best online community there is!

ronin
07-19-2002, 07:05 PM
dont listen to teachers :P they always say u have to learn that before that, altho that dont help shizat :P,
u have to learn to play the Clarinette before the sax... .:P
what bunch of crap ^_^, anyway i guess im not helping :p

srv
07-21-2002, 03:30 AM
hey,
tapptoons - free line tester software

http://www.tappsplace.freeserve.co.uk/newanimationsoftware.htm

not bad

unintuitive
07-21-2002, 04:28 AM
That Flipbook proggy looks awesome. They got a letter from Don Bluth personally thanking them for making such great software. I mean, wow. Don Bluth.

I'm downloading the demo as I type this.

AnimBot
07-22-2002, 01:25 AM
dont listen to teachers :P they always say u have to learn that before that, altho that dont help shizat :P,

I totally disagree that the teacher's advice was crap. There are some invaluable lessons that I learned doing traditional cell animation that I would have never learned in 3d because it's not stressed. The biggest thing is Timing!! In 2d there is alot of planning with timing charts. The fact that there is no interpolation with a pen and a pencil forces you to take into account how many frames there needs to be, and where they should be placed to come across believable. However just look at 90% of students demo tapes out there in 3d and you would swear that your vcr is going in slow motion. Because you get imediate results in 3d alot of people neglect their timing and fudge it by moving keyframes around. As a result you see alot of 3d animated works that seem to move in slow motion. I'm not saying you couldn't learn these things in 3d, but what I am saying is you focus on this much more in 2d and it's easier to then transfer it over in 3d. Plus 2d is damn fun :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

jjburton
07-22-2002, 02:20 AM
I've purchased Flipbook Lite and plan on using it to work through the exercises in The Animator's Survival Kit to learn traditional animation. I think it will also be an invaluable tool for working out complicated character movemtents before hand and help to figure out what kind of rigs I'll need to build in a 3d environment to copy the movement.

Thanks again.

skunk184
07-24-2002, 08:42 PM
i dont think you need to learn traditional animation before you move onto 3d......as for learning timing and weight and things ,that just comes with experience , the more you do something the better you get..your timing and weight is nt gonna be great if your just starting whether it be in 2d or 3d....

bentllama
07-25-2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by skunk184
i dont think you need to learn traditional animation before you move onto 3d

BULLCRAP...

...having a 2D background has made every animator I have seen that has touch the computer [9 times out of ten] a better animator...

YOU NEED A 2D BACKGROUND...

nuff said...

eek
07-25-2002, 11:07 PM
The traditional skills are fundamental!:bounce:

Eek!:eek:

ambient-whisper
07-25-2002, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by bentllama


BULLCRAP...

...having a 2D background has made every animator I have seen that has touch the computer [9 times out of ten] a better animator...

YOU NEED A 2D BACKGROUND...

nuff said...
it also depends on what a person does too. i mean usually if a person knows dancing or martial arts. they are usually very familliar with motion. and have good rhytm. some people could get away with it. ;) but ya. "some people" doesnt account for the majority :)

skunk184
07-26-2002, 12:42 AM
BULLCRAP...

...having a 2D background has made every animator I have seen that has touch the computer [9 times out of ten] a better animator...

YOU NEED A 2D BACKGROUND...

....surely the same fundamentals apply whether it be 2d or 3d just a different method of creation...its all movement is nt it .......

srv
07-26-2002, 11:02 AM
I think the difficulty in 3D is that the tools are not designed to create good animation.
This will hopefully change in the future. But at the moment the whole paradigm seems to be wrong.
You can create nice animation with 3D software but you really have to approach it from a traditional animation perspective.
Where you treat each frame as a drawing and you try to keep a strong silhouette and control the timing.
Keith Lango (http://www.keithlango.com/popThru/popThru.html) , a very good animator IMHO describes an excellent approach to try and achieve this workflow.
But it becomes so much easier to undersatand the whole process when you have had some traditional training.
Watch DVD's at 1/12th speed and you start to see what is going on in traditional animation. Quite a lot, but very simple when you break it down.

Dominique
08-11-2002, 03:54 PM
You Should Try AURA

this is great for doing trad. Anim, need a Wacom, no Scanner, no Cam

Roy_Batty
08-14-2002, 06:19 AM
I don't want to sound like an expert, however I worked for over ten years as
a traditional 2D cell animator before I ever touched a computer. Out of that
time four years was spent working for Don Bluth in Dublin Ireland as
a traditional character animator. My experience as a traditional animator
was invaluable in helping Me make the transition to 3D. I would recommend
that instead of trying to learn a 2D animation package, you:

A: take a few life drawing and gesture classes, this will help in understanding
such things as line of action, gesture, poses and most importantly
shilouette.

B: run, don't walk to get a copy of a book called "The illusion of life"
which was written by Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston. Sadly these two men
are all that is left of the original nine old men from Disney. This book is one
of the bibles of animation.

C: Another animation great by the name of Richard Williams, who just published another great animation how to book.

Best of luck :bounce:

bentllama
08-14-2002, 06:30 AM
Nice text Roy. You stated my thoughts rather eloquently. I too was trained first in 2D and it did make the transition into 3D a whole lot better...

TRADITIONAL SKILLS MATTER!

Good luck with your studies jjburton.

pswoods
08-19-2002, 02:59 PM
Here's that Richard Williams book. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0571202284)

This has been a most helpful book in my development.

Then there's this (http://freetoon.com/prestonblair/intro/frame.html), which has a lot of good basic info for free online.

My 2 on cel animation for 3D animators: I think you can get a lot of the meat from some great resources without getting too deep into any new skill (e.g. draftsmanship, software) other than animation. You can get a lot out of going through the Richard Williams book drawing stick figures with a pencil, gum-bound notepad, $9 web cam, and free software.

In other words, I think 2D is an important discipline for CG animators because that's where you will find a century's worth of expertise compiled and codified; but there are some skills - like inking and painting - that don't necessarily carry over 1:1.

Frinsklen
08-24-2002, 11:26 AM
Learning traditional animation may not be necessary, but it will ALWAYS be REALLY helpful to have 2D drawing/animation skills when doing 3D.

And I dont know much about traditional animation programs, but there's one called "CTS" and I've heard it's quite good. It hasn't been mentioned here, I think. If you got one already and you're happy with it, dont pay attention to my suggestion... :hmm:

Cheers

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