Which skinning method do you prefer?

[Dave Black]

You are correct about physique's user interface being over complex. I've been using it for about 3 years now, and I can say that I understand it fairly well.

Max's skin modifier is not all that bad, but after having the tools available in physique, I just can't use if for bipedal characters...

Try to read up and understand physique. It is daunting at first, but there is a whole lot of is you can just ignore.

[DanielWichterich]

Does someone know where to find good tutorials for skinning?
I have been searching for a long time. What I found was only for very simple characters.
Thanks!

[Sevensheaven]

Thanks for your feedback, 3DZealot. I know Physique is very powerful, but I just wish the skinning would work brilliantly simple and simply brilliant. Also I think the Physique envelopes work better on the meshsmoothed version, because the low-res mesh is too simple to not twist a whole arm in stead of only a wrist, if you know what I mean.

Stange, your request for a good skinning tutorial with biped is a good idea. I'd like to see one too.

Cheers guys,

M7

[Nahaz]

You don't have to use envelopes. I usually assign vertices manually to bones. Don't forget you can use the relax modifier at the top of the stack if certain vertices aren't behaving.

[Sevensheaven]

Originally posted by Nahaz
You don't have to use envelopes. I usually assign vertices manually to bones.

That's what I was planning to do the next time. Gives you far more detailed control, especially when using Physique on a low-poly mesh before meshsmoothing. I assume you're using Physique too? Or MAX's Skin? Or Bones Pro 3? Is there any other alternative?

Another question: to assign vertices manually I assume you use the "old" way in Physique (assigning rigid or deformable vertices)? But do the link settings (like Physique's deformation spline's tension and continuity) still work with the vertex assignment approach?

And what's the best way to avoid flattening parts when bending an arm for example? Do I have to use these "tendons" or so, or is there a better tip?

Don't forget you can use the relax modifier at the top of the stack if certain vertices aren't behaving.

Good tip, but I assume you mean relaxing a sub-object vertex selection, because a Relax over the whole mesh usually also simplifies the mesh as if it's melting wax. Details like the nostrils "melt" away, if you know what I mean.

Thanks very much for your feedback!

Cheers,

M7

P.S.: Nahaz, your avatar reminds me of an old Psygnosis Amiga game called Obliterator. Does it happen to be a character from that game or is it coincidence?

[Nahaz]

They should act exactly like they do when an envelope is used. The only difference is, instead of the envelope doing the assigning and weighting, it's done by hand.

Typically i'll bind physique to the pelvis bone as per normal (creating envelopes). Then i'll select all the vertices, select "no blending", then bind as deformable to every bone. This will roughly assign the vertices to the closest bone. Now i will go through and make sure each vertex is bound to the correct bone. I'll make some of them rigid (the head and feet, etc). I might find that some vertices need some weighting (crotch area, etc), so i will lock those vertices, then open the "type in weights" window, find the bone(s) i wish to influence vertices.

Biped is lacking an ulna bone, so we can't get nice wrist action that way, so in physique we'll change the twist tension for the forearm to 2.0. That will make the wrist behave like a real wrist.

Some areas just wont behave well, typically the armpits. This is where selecting certain vertices at the bottom of the stack and adding relax at the top might help. Similar to where you'd use blend modifier with Bones Pro.

The flattening (lose of volume) usually occurs when you're using pure rigid deformation with weighting. Such as using the Skin modifier without the gizmos. It can be difficult getting the perfect deformation even with the best deformers, sometimes the model structure can be the problem.

I've never touched tendons. I believe they're used for tweeking a muscle at the top of the arm while the fingers are moving, for example.

Yes. That picture is actually from a rezzed up version i was painting in preparation of modelling that charactor. :)

I'm a big Psygnosis fan. :)

[Sevensheaven]

Thanks VERY much Nahaz! Your info is very useful. Is it okay if I save your e-mail address in case I'm about to pull my hair out again next time? Is your e-mail address publicly visible? I can't check this while writing this message.

Anyway, if it isn't public, could you please send an e-mail to james_herriott@hotmail.com with your e-mail address? Thanks again!

Cheers,

M7

P.S.: Psygnosis rules! Or is it "ruled" in the mean time? I'm not much into games anymore, but I used to create my own on the Amiga. Do you happen to be an Amiga veteran?

[cgSquad]

it depends on chracter you modeled and what you want reactions from thire when you animate them.

This is my workflow about skinning.
1 > determine what do you want from your character. does it has dynamic muscles, will you want him to breath(chest moving), etc.
2 > you have skin,physic,bonespro Ok thats nice. check all the features in manual they provide.
3 > do a lot of test with every plugin specially if you working on new things like human etc. do tests and change your decisions until you satisfied with every thing is working in the way you want it to be.
4>pose you char like standing, skitting, jumping and some simple animations .because in my experiance most problems occure after you created animateable skin for you char. because you dont want to go back to skinning and rigging when you are animating.

5> plane every thing before doing it.

and thire are lots more........

[Nahaz]

Yep, i had 3 Amigas, A1000, A500, A1200. Still got my A1000 some where, it's got the signatures of the designers inside the case :applause:

[Sevensheaven]

Thank you too for your feedback, cgSquad. You're right about the relatively large amount of research and experimentation before everything works like you want.

I just wish they'd invent a method to animate the different body parts of a mesh like separate segments and blend the parts seamlessly together.

Nahaz, I have an A1000 with the signatures too (and a print of the paw of Jay Miner's dog). I also have an A1200 and an A4000 and I used to have an A2000 too (but sold that one to buy my A1200). The Amiga revolutionized CGI for the masses. I'm still thankful for that.

Cheers!

M7

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