orc head wip

[damageINC]

I need help getting this bad dude looking really good, and I'd like people's crackerjack opinions. ....please...... :P

[Infuscare]

looks very warcraft 3 ish. Seems pretty kool. You might want to change the background color, or the skin colour so we can actually see something

[Technicrat]

It is tough to make out the details against the current background. Only comment I have from these pics is that there is a fairly obvious seam below the nose and extending down along the lower lip and chin.

[damageINC]

Not so good with rendering stuff effectively as of yet.....but you're right black backgrounds make stuff too hard to see. That and I could afford to make the images larger. I'll repost em tonight. Sorry about that.

[damageINC]

Yeah the seam is there because I don't weld the two halves together for reference shots like that. I don't weld anything until it's exactly as I want it. I am thinking that the lips need deleting and re-working, though. That's the next task after remaking the ears.

[damageINC]

As promised, new pics of the same stuff with lighter backgrounds. They're all a lot bigger, too. Hope this helps.



http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=7757&img=orc_front.jpg

http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=7758&img=orc_front_render.jpg

http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=7759&img=orc_profile_render.jpg

http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=7760&img=orc_perspective_render.jpg

[Technicrat]

Those pics are easier to see. Thanks for reposting. Right now there is no upper lip to speak of. It seems to me that based on the positioning of the brow, cheeks and nose that the upper lip should be pulled up into a snarl. I think this will also enhance the "mean" look your going for in the profile view as well.

In any case I think you're off to a good start. Looking forward to watching this guy come to life. Keep it up!

[PC-Junkie]

could use some fangs/teeth comin out of the lower lip... and the jaw seems kinda fat looking to me.. i allways consider a orc to be a fighter type, so maybe some more bone definition on the face.. good work so far, can't wait to see the rest of him...

[damageINC]

No teeth yet, I'm afraid. I'm still trying to work on the ears....they're about 90% complete at this point. However, I'm having issues with them. They just don't look right to me.....and I can't put my finger on why. Maybe too far back in the head (though I don't think so....the reference I drew had the ears far back on the head). Or are they too crinkly....or maybe that's desireable. At any rate, I need help on them (aside from the very obvious things like where I haven't finished modeling, of course). Thanks.

http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=7995&img=orc_ear_1.jpg

http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=7996&img=orc_ear_2.jpg

[SergeAstahov]

From the side view i can say what is wrong - they're too man like and from the front view, you should rotate them from the head, so we could see the ends of the ears (hope you know what i mean), but not too much.

[damageINC]

I see your point. Damnit.......I actually used my own ears as the basis for them. I figured since they're humaniod, they'd be pointy and big, but more or less like ours......and it took me an ungodly amount of time to get them look like that. Oh well. I think I'll try and rotate them out a tad bit more (I had actually done that last night 'cause the ears looked flat from the front view) and see how that goes; maybe make the opening in the bottom of the ear a bit smaller. I dunno.

[damageINC]

Looks like yourimagehost just moved to a new server. I can only assume that that is why all the photos I linked last night are now saying they've been deleted or moved. My apologies.....I'll repost this and my other thread (yet again) tonight when I get home. Stupid hosting services.....I wish we could just imbed attachments. Oh well.......*sigh*

[damageINC]

I don't have a personal website so I'm kind of at the mercy of free image hosting sites.....and unfortunately mine currently is completely broken. It won't let me view or edit what's currently there. And further it won't allow me to dl any new ones either; which basically translates to all my posts not working. So sorry to those expecting to see pics. Does anyone here have the capacity to hold a small archive of my wips? If so please pmme, I'd be much obliged. Thanks.



NOTE THAT THERE ARE NOW WORKING PICS IN POST 1 OF PAGE TWO. Let me know what's wrong with the ears and head.....I'm uber slow at working on stuff, but need feedback. Thanks.

[foxco]

ya if you want i can host stuff for you

c_lee_fox@hotmail addme to your msn and you can send me a zip file or somthign and i will send the links back to you


/fox

[damageINC]

Much thanks to fox for the free space. I'm attempting to post the finished ears from the front, profile, and perspective views, once again. So here goes:

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/orc_head_front_040526.jpg

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/orc_head_profile_040526.jpg

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/orc_head_perspective_040526.jpg

[damageINC]

As always....I tend to overanalyze things and so I'm spending a whole heck of a lot of time on this portion of the wip. But here's what I'm up to right now. I've made a fake growl face to do some more detailed work on the lips and cheeks. From the new pics, I've made the following changes:

1.) The ears are now turned out to the sides slightly more, and are less pointy and narrow. They're much thicker around the edges, too.

2.) I've re-worked the cheekbones such that they're bulkier and have less of that "flat/slanted" surface right under the eye. I'm debating about which cheek type looks better. Any advice?

3.) It was clear when I made the mouth open and reworked the lips that the underbite was too gorilla like and too far forward from the perspective view. It was also apparent from the front that the lower jaw needed to be both widened and lowered. So those were both done.

4.) Finally, I haven't done this yet, but the smile lines need another set of wrinkles at the corners of the mouth. That'll get done probably on Sunday.

As always, starving for hard critiques. No need to be kind here...it's not looking quite right and I don't know why.

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/mouthNcheek_test_front_040529.jpg

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/mouthNcheek_test_profile_040529.jpg

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/mouthNcheek_test_perspective_040529.jpg

[damageINC]

This will probably be the last post until I get the upper and lower jaws finished for the interior of the mouth. Took another look at the sneak peak trailer for Blizzard's stuff and decided my wip was poopy. So I've attempted as best I could to add a lot more expression and detail to the face. While not quite "there" in terms of quality, I'm happy with the way this is progressing. C&C are always welcomed..........BTW does anyone here know a good way to make a pony tail and braided beard? Is it really as simple as making a low poly dummy object at roughly the shape and size of the hair and then adding hair using a plugin? I'm still a little confused as to how to go about completing this. Thanks.

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/dentures_test_front_040602.jpg

[RhyderKey]

OK

first off nice WIP. here is my imput

1) forehead needs wrinks - the bottom part of the face is full of shape but the forhead is smooth
2) the ears need to go into the head a touch more, just a touch
3) under the eye u have 1 wrinkle which is very sharp, the way to fix this is have a few more winkles under it
4) jaw line to sqaure
5) the nostils are a flared up to much, lower them a tad
6) teeth need gums

[SergeAstahov]

The progress is good, but as i have already mentioned earlier (and you haven't fixed that) the ears are too man like.

And yes, he needs some gums. And i would recomend to make his teeth thicher, because he looks dangerous but his teeth not that horrible.

[lestdog]

I like the ears personanly, what my eye keeps hitting on the nasal cavity there is no bump or at least a hint of a bump from the transition of the upper lip area, I dont know what this area is called. The filrum i think? But I think its because the corner doesnt transition inward, It just stops.

[damageINC]

Hi guys, thanks for the response. Yeah....I tried putting forehead wrinkles in prior, but found them to look really artificial and more like creases than wrinkles.......any advice on how to add splines to the low poly cage to make this less severe?

I worked so hard on the ears that although they're human-like, I think I'm going to keep them. Orcs, are kind of human like.....but yeah, I could either bring them into the head at the front or pull them out away from the head at the back a bit more; I'll work on that.

Not sure what to do about adding more wrinkles to the eyes. I'll post my low poly geometry later tonight, but suffice it to say that it hasn't got tons of room to add spline sets for added wrinklage; I'll see what I can do, though, cause I think you're right.

I think I already took care of the jawline issue when I started to prepare for the neck. It's now much more rounded and chubby looking.....the nostrils have been thickened some, as well.

And finally, I wasn't really sure about the thing under the nose; I put a slight indentation in the middle of the portion above the upper lip.....only very slight since anything more made it look like I took an icecream scoop and had at his face.....perhaps the angle and lighting aren't so good.

[damageINC]

Another quick post. I ended up deleting the eye cavity and the cheeks in order to rebuild it with more edge loops; originally when I put this together it was kind of like.....hmmmm let's patch this together....worrying more about gross anatomy than fine structure or an uber clean mesh. As a result I've had to go back and rebuild just about every major portion of the face at least twice. But some good lessons learned. So here then....is the wip (and before you ask, yes those are placeholder teeth....and yes they will be that thin on top when the bone jaws go in). :P

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/orc_incomplete_040604(grey).jpg

[damageINC]

one more time from another site I post on regularly:

http://www.threedy.com/site/forum/attachment.php?postid=199988

[damageINC]

Here are some updates on the work as it currently stands. I've got the neck and shoulders under way......the pecs are just place holders right now. The neck needs some tendons more defined on the sides.....and I'm debating about how much definition the top of the back and traps need, but overall, it's not bad. If anyone has some critiques.......please lay 'em on me. Thanks.

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/head_shoulders_front.jpg


http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/head_shoulders_profile.jpg


http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/head_shoulders_perspective.jpg

[Cunbelin]

He looks morbidly obese, maybe that's the goal, but if it isn't, I think you should pull the back and neck area back in a bit, though I think you have the right feeling for the bulk of the character overall just putting his shoulders there rather than his back. I wouldn't pull it back in a whole bunch, but enough to give him a more lean feeling.

[damageINC]

I originally had the traps (trapezius) below the ear line, but it just didn't look right. BTW the traps are the muscles that you work when you do shrugs....they're inbetween the neck and the start of the shoulders. The orc I'm making has a base stance like an erect ape would; the upper body is heavy and curved in a slightly forward slouch. The upper back and shoulders are going to be abnormally large.......but I think the slightly hunch back look works here.

You're right about him looking frumpy, though. I've been working on refining the neck a little tonight and got rid of that second skin roll behind the ear......and tried to make the trap angle biased towards the back slightly....but it's still got a lot of work left to do. It's funny, I'm learning so much more about anatomy than I ever wanted to by doing this. Makes me wish I had paid attention more in those life drawing classes back in the day; oh well. Thanks for the comments and keep the crits comin'.

[Cunbelin]

heh indeed, when I doubt I often find going to gray's is useful, not the best picture as far as drawing aids, but for understanding the anatomy of things it is really great:
http://www.bartleby.com/107/

A few anatomy thoughts, if he is hunched over ape-like his rib cage is going to be at an angle, the way you have it set up the front of his rib cage is vertical, and consequently the arching of the back makes him look fat rather than hunched. anyway keep up the good work.

[damageINC]

Didn't get much of a response in the regular critiques forum so I guess I'll just continue on here. Here are some updates. Currently working on the arms of the wip; it's fast becoming an entire orc rather than just a head. C&C welcomed.


http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/arms_front_2.jpg

[damageINC]

Here's a profile shot:

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/arms_profile_2.jpg

[damageINC]

One more shot of the perspective:

http://www.cdis.org/~cleefox/damageinc/arms_perspective_2.jpg

[damageINC]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I last posted. To be honest, I've made far less progress than I would have liked by this time......but all things are a learning experience. In the downtime I ended up making (and consequently deleting) a back for the wip. I've nearly finished the arms and have begun work on the hands. Hopefully I'll be able to post....these two shots are the latest. Both perspective views....one at an angle the other a front view. Note that the green fingers are placeholders as I flesh out how I want the hand to look. Let me know what you think.

[damageINC]

Remodeled the pecs per some requests and begun to work on the midsection a bit. I tried working on the obliques briefly, but didn't like what I had and deleted them. Any comments about what can be improved with the physique would be appreciated.

[SergeAstahov]

The model looks really cool. And you have a huge progress on this model. But i think the neck-chest area could have been smoothier. Especially bitween the chest, some strange wrinkles appear. But if you have the same reference then it's fine. Keep up the good work.

[SergeAstahov]

What i meant was this:

[Breoniks]

I think the "wrinkles" were modeled purposely Hawk, to look like veins or striations from his pecs. Though, I'm not sure if they're looking quite right anatomy wise. I don't think the ones going into the collar bone should be there, instead maybe in the center of his chest? A chest could get those striations when flexed but, its more likely they'd be in the center and, striations in the center would appear first. I think. Also, around the neck, those could be tendons from the neck...? They might be alright but, just look at some reference to double check em Damage. Hope this helps!

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