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hoochoochoochoo
05-05-2004, 03:45 PM
there's a bit more time on this one so I should get this done! :drool:

I'm going to go for a semi-realistic Hairy Troll - maybe something along the lines of a LOTR type charcater. The fur or hair will NOT be all over the figure (think I learned enough about that making Tardy's whiskers)

Drawings tomorrow.

hoochoochoochoo
05-17-2004, 08:09 AM
I'm SURE I had posted more than this????

What's happened to the thread????
What happened to the posts????

H E L P ! ! ! ! !

hoochoochoochoo
05-17-2004, 08:16 AM
just saw Leonards announcement about CGTalk being hacked...

well here we go again...

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll01.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll02.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll03.jpg

hoochoochoochoo
05-17-2004, 08:18 AM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll04.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll05.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll06.jpg

hoochoochoochoo
05-17-2004, 08:19 AM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll07.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll08.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll09.jpg

hoochoochoochoo
05-19-2004, 06:08 PM
Here's the latest after I managed to grab some time before going home.

The head isn't right yet but I better start on the hair/fur/prickles tonight.http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll10.jpg

hoochoochoochoo
05-19-2004, 06:39 PM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll11.jpg

NOW I'm going home.

hoochoochoochoo
05-20-2004, 10:07 AM
another anomaly - I couldn't (whatever I tried) create one last 5 point patch on this model. Eventually I resorted to version 10.5 and that allowed me to create the patch straight away.

strange...

couldn't help tweaking lastnight and this morning and have modified some proportions a bit more.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll12.jpg

Started to create the strange folds at the neck too, not totally happy with them but I'll start on the skin treatment now.

hoochoochoochoo
05-20-2004, 10:23 AM
Played with Porcelain for the first time, very cool! I'm using it on his face as there where only so many tweaks I could do.

Process - apply to group, open attribute shortcuts all the way to surface shortcut and at the bottom is a "normal-weighting" setting. In this case, 5%. I then found strange blackened patches which turned out to be inverted normals. Once I had inverted the normals the patches had a strange look about them, almost like a second skin. This was resolved by closing & re-loading the project.

All in all, very cool! Porcelain now makes AM very very sweet!

hoochoochoochoo
05-20-2004, 11:36 AM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/trollfinger01.jpg

early attempt at the stone hair on this guy. Only one hair emmitter used but the image isn't lying the way I want it to on the finger - it's facing the camera but I want it to lie along the skin surface like flakes (or even shark scales)

HELP??

Obnomauk
05-20-2004, 01:45 PM
hey Hooch nice progress there.

the hair emitter has a Face camera property by setting this to 0% and adjusting the thickness and bow settings of the emitter I think you can get some very acceptable scale/feather looking surfaces.

and with the ability to change thickness over the length of the hair (scale) you can make the shape very believable for whatever kind of scale you might need. Hope this helps.

-David

hoochoochoochoo
05-24-2004, 08:22 AM
did these over the weekend and had a LOT of fun with the new Materials (haven't played with materials since version 8.5) and was truly impressed by the speed of render.
Used to press render then come back 3-4 days later while AM crunched those numbers. Turnaround on 3-4 pass multipass here was 30 minutes max..
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/Granitetroll00.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/pebbledash_troll00.jpg

hoochoochoochoo
05-24-2004, 08:29 AM
I got this from playing with deeply nested material-nodes

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/StoneTroll-First00.jpg

and then I put all the effects I wanted into ONE photoshop file, played with layers and rubbed away to create overlay effectshttp://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/finalstonepsd00.jpg

Next feature request would be to have masking on materials in AM so I could get similar results in future

hoochoochoochoo
05-24-2004, 08:34 AM
This is the closest I got with creating the "Stone" skin material I could. I deleted porcelain as this counteracted the effects I wanted but hey, I finally got to try porcelain out..

Final skin settings -

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/StoneTroll01.jpg

and a close-up of his face

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/StoneTroll_face01.jpg

hoochoochoochoo
05-24-2004, 08:36 AM
close-ups of the hands..

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/StoneTroll_lefthand01.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/StoneTroll_righthand01.jpg

Only problem is the overlaid effects on the tops of the arms follow that nice "square" shaped patch....

mmm.. spray-on materials effects... drooooolll!

hoochoochoochoo
05-24-2004, 11:33 AM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/trollarm01.jpg

not sure why this is happening - maybe I'll need to make decals from the material and then the hair material won't be affected by the image map for the hair/scales or the key-colour I used..
(in this case, yellow 255 or 100% affects the surrounding patches)
but as I'm still using version 11 I may need an update?

hoochoochoochoo
05-24-2004, 02:46 PM
not the best angle but I have to shut down soon so no time to
re-render.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll13.jpg

Re-loading the project after hair/normals changes has become routine. I don't like the faint yellow outline on the scales and I think they're too different from the skin material.

Back at workon Wednesday so I'll post some more developments (but it does feel like I'm talking to myself...) except I don't have version 11 running on my old Macs at home.

<looks over shoulder into darkness...>

modernhorse
05-24-2004, 03:18 PM
Beautiful progress Hoochchoochoo !

This is not a one man conversation. ;)

hoochoochoochoo
05-26-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by modernhorse

This is not a one man conversation. ;)

well.... how about a "one-Troll" conversation then? :p

Have changed (simplified) the image-maps on the hair emitters as the detail was lost anyway, changed the key colour from yellow to sickly green and now there's no leakage.

Oh yes, a tip - if you are modifying your hair in grooming mode and need to correct a mistake simply remove the offending cp's from the emitting group, reload and then re-group them. There's no undo button in grooming mode and this is the next best solution (I found)

Enough talking -
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll14.jpg

hoochoochoochoo
05-26-2004, 01:57 PM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll15.jpg

apologies for the file-size on the last.. I have been reducing the images to 640 x 480 but I liked this one.

hoochoochoochoo
05-26-2004, 03:33 PM
not liking the shoulder on the left - am open to opinion if anyone is willing to voice it.
I also have an unhappy feeling I should have a different type of hair / fur but then it could seem like hair / fur for the sake of it.
Opinions?
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll16.jpg

Doug? Are you still there?

modernhorse
05-26-2004, 03:38 PM
Hooch -
I'm here and ready to offer my opinions. I just can't be silent anymore.

NO do not change the hair. It looks tough, stony and nasty and its perfect. In regards to the shoulder, I think it looks too 'peaked'. Perhaps broaden the area after the armpit a bit to fill out the bicep area a little - tho you might then have to shift the elbow area down towards the hand a little, eh?

To reiterate - don't change the hair !!!

hoochoochoochoo
05-26-2004, 03:46 PM
from a Troll to a Horse...

:beer:

I actually did peak the handles at the shoulder and you've set me to thinking. Cheers again! I'll try and post some variables on the left arm tonight and see what you think.

hoochoochoochoo
05-26-2004, 05:38 PM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll17.jpg

this version of the left arm is closer to the original "photoshopped" version that had random skin effects.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/finalstonepsd00.jpg

I've been staring at reluctant grooming handles too long. However treatment of the scales look unfinished still.

modernhorse
05-27-2004, 02:55 PM
TrollChooChoo -
That first pic of your recent post looks good. Less sharp in the shoulder area. btw - the shoulders as they were weren't a 'show stopper' for me. It was a minor thing. And when you look at the proportions of the entire model its even less of an issue.

Good work as usual.

hoochoochoochoo
05-27-2004, 04:57 PM
TrollChooChoo

I have NOTHING to say.. my mummy loved me even if I DO look like a troll first thing in the morning...

Todays pics (grabbed some free time before I head home in 10 mins)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll18.jpg

a close up of the shoulder -
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll19.jpg

and this one of the back. If it's not onscreen yet, check back in 5 minutes - SmartFTP is doing its best to upload as fast as it can!

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll20.jpg

Lastly, Doug, I DID listen to your opinion - just hadn't time to render it out before (and it takes a while to move those grooming handles into place...)

hoochoochoochoo
06-02-2004, 11:52 AM
having trouble getting an alpha channel to mask out a decalled groove but here's the trolls weapon
(I tried turning the stone material into a decal to cut render time down.)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/crossbow01.jpg.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/crossbow02.jpg

I'm having strange problems with these images- the lycos link doesn't seem to be picking everything up. I've tried the image tab address again and again but not picking up for some reason.

Apologies - but if there is anyone visiting this thread for updates you'll just have to check back later!

modernhorse
06-02-2004, 12:23 PM
Argh! Dirty rotten Lycos ... I hope it's free Hooch.

hoochoochoochoo
06-02-2004, 12:57 PM
Hi Horse dude type person! my previous images are coming up blank on screen too,
have you got the same problem?? I've double checked EVERYTHING and the files are there on the Lycos server, same address as the other ones..

Mind you, funny things always happen near the end of my competitions... ("Outer Limits" music comes on in background.....)

hoochoochoochoo
06-02-2004, 03:08 PM
got an email back from Lycos and they are having problems with the FTP server....

getting the feeling that I should stop entering these darn mini-contests...:sad:

modernhorse
06-02-2004, 03:16 PM
Heya Troll ...er Hooch -

You could attach them to the thread via CGTalk server can't you? I've never been able to do so but you could try.

hoochoochoochoo
06-02-2004, 03:24 PM
here's a try but I had to reduce the heck out of the image...

almost pointless..

modernhorse
06-02-2004, 03:28 PM
Yeah that is teeny. Oh well, I guess we'll just wait on Lycos won't we?

I'm not having much luck finishing up mine and I have no server to blame it on. Just my modeling speed. Bird's feet are really hard. :eek:

Horse out.

hoochoochoochoo
06-02-2004, 03:32 PM
you think that's teeny?? ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED MAN???

:scream: :beer:

here's another pointless image... side view

hoochoochoochoo
06-02-2004, 05:48 PM
working on the tufts of hair that branch from the head of the model - got one "braid" done and hoped to save time by copying and pasting sections of model that had been groomed...

unfortunately, the groomed areas are NOT duplicated. Looks nice though and I'm itching to post an image.

hoochoochoochoo
06-03-2004, 08:26 AM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll21.jpg

hoochoochoochoo
06-03-2004, 11:52 AM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll22.jpg

1 - 2 Not sure whether I like the groomed braids or whether to leave them as they come direct.. any opinions would be appreciated - even if you hate the model.!
3 - these scales work fine close up but feel "lost" from further away in this whole body shot. I'm itching to "grow" these scales more... again any opinions would be appreciated.
4- the last areas to "scale/hair" up. Same general scale design to be used.

Also now ready to rig him so he / it can grab the crossbow ready for posing. That's if MY IMAGES WILL WORK!!!:banghead:

hoochoochoochoo
06-03-2004, 04:56 PM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll23.jpg

Have played with the scales at his/its wrist and now made up one side of the braided hair.

Next job is the other side, the hair that drapes over his/its figure

modernhorse
06-03-2004, 06:39 PM
Hooch -
My opinions now that Lycos has been cooperative ...

I think the hair on the arms looks sort of like moss from a distance. Which is cool, it suits the stoney nature of this guy.

I like the braids as they are in the last post, except the color. I think the red is sort of ... i dunno, innapropriate for this guy. But now that I think of it I don't know his history so maybe it is appropriate. But perhaps a toned down more natural-ish red and a green - like he would have dyed it himself with wild berries or something?

The eyes are perfect. Blank and piercing at the same time. Cool !

I can't wait to see this guy posed. Great job so far.

hoochoochoochoo
06-04-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by modernhorse
Hooch -
perhaps a toned down more natural-ish red and a green - like he would have dyed it himself with wild berries or something?

The eyes are perfect. Blank and piercing at the same time.


Thanks Horse-type-guy.. I loved the idea of using natural materials to dye the colours in. Here's a quick test render for your perusal..
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll24.jpg

Oh yes, the eyes.. I used the X-Ray.mat as a base for his/its eyes.
They do look a bit like they've been plonked into a mesh but there are modelled eyesockets there. It's one of things I'm toying with changing...

modernhorse
06-04-2004, 02:56 PM
Hooch !

GREAT ! Thanks for taking my comments to heart as I think the hair is working much better now. I really think this guy has a ton of personality. That's two competitions and two offbeat/oddball characters (Tardy and now Trolly). Great work.

While i'm here ... how about armpit and crotch hair? Any plans for that?

They do look a bit like they've been plonked into a mesh but there are modelled eyesockets there. It's one of things I'm toying with changing...

To my eyes, its eyes work as they are. That may differ from your opinion but there you have it.

Keep on, this is great!

hoochoochoochoo
06-04-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by modernhorse

That's two competitions and two offbeat/oddball characters (Tardy and now Trolly).

While i'm here ... how about armpit and crotch hair? Any plans for that?


I should really post the last image but I've given up on the side body fur as it looked awful.. armpit & crotch hair huh.....?

Nice idea!

Oh yes.. Tardy never made it to the deadline, (did I ever send you the mesh to try out?) I'm hoping this guy does but I have lip / facial bumps and wrinkles to add sometime soon.

modernhorse
06-04-2004, 03:08 PM
Tardy never made it to the deadline, (did I ever send you the mesh to try out?)

Yes, you did. Have you worked further on him since the end of the competition? I still want to export him to LW, and work with him there. Its one of those things on my list. :)

hoochoochoochoo
06-04-2004, 03:26 PM
thinking about this further Mr Horse-Type-Fella...
do you mean real hairy hair? I'm sitting here trying to figure out what stone hair looks like!

maybe I should look at rock crystals but you never have any round when you need them!

Sorry - Tardys mesh hasn't changed although I've been growing hair on him to learn how to use version 11 hair!

modernhorse
06-04-2004, 03:35 PM
do you mean real hairy hair? I'm sitting here trying to figure out what stone hair looks like! Well, seems as though he's a stoney fella how about little sticks that had lichen or leaves on them (for the crotch). hehe just brainstorming.

You could also use moss or scales like you already have on the arms.

This is fun. My poor job. :rolleyes:

hoochoochoochoo
06-04-2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by modernhorse
how about little sticks that had lichen or leaves on them (for the crotch).

would you like me to do a handstand while I create this from the fur system or can I remain seated??

Originally posted by modernhorse
You could also use moss or scales like you already have on the arms.

Well... I'm going to try and create image maps for the hair.. maybe stone hair with lichen though - like he/its used to lying down amongst other stones. He's way too clean at the moment anyway.

Originally posted by modernhorse
This is fun. My poor job. :rolleyes:

Give me your boss's number, you have way too much time for your hard requests...:drool:

modernhorse
06-04-2004, 03:49 PM
HAHAHAHA ! Good luck with all the changes !!

hoochoochoochoo
06-05-2004, 12:42 PM
hehe! I'll sneak on here when you ain't lokking Mr Horse...

well, here's the model as is so far - body hair starting to be placed. This is just a preview render of the model, all hair emitters set to shaded.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll25.jpg

Then close up renders of two versions of the underarm bodyhair - one uses an image map with a key colour - these ALWAYS have an element of bleed. (I even used screen dumps to color-find in photoshop to get as close a match as possible)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll26.jpg

Side 1 is the hair.mat affected by skin material settings - not ideal
Side 2 is the image mapped hair - the key colour is now affecting the skin patches again. :shrug:

zandoria
06-05-2004, 01:57 PM
Are you putting an image on the emitter? Or are you creating a "properties-driven" map to control color?

Since you have an emitter just for the arm pit, it might be easiest to set it's color properties directly in the emitter, keyframing color along the length, while the brightness attribute gives you a little variation.

Did you forget an emitter for the pubic hair, or does this guy shave:eek:

hoochoochoochoo
06-05-2004, 02:24 PM
hello Will.!
I tried an image on the emitter and that's the result on side 2 of the last image posted.
I haven't tried a properties driving map as I thought version 11's hair didn't use them? You have me thinking again...

as to shaving - hehe! just haven't gotten round to making and grooming it yet!

hoochoochoochoo
06-05-2004, 02:53 PM
gonna get kicked out in a moment so here's my last for the weekend

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/hairytroll27.jpg

Will, I tried the colour changes along the timeline and this was to get greenish (moss? dye?) tips to the hair. There's also a random hair emitter in too.

zandoria
06-05-2004, 05:47 PM
Wow! that last one looks great! I love the moss hair!:applause:

modernhorse
06-07-2004, 12:38 PM
Fantastic job! I agree with Will this looks really great.

Horse out.

hoochoochoochoo
06-08-2004, 04:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys!

Sorry no updates recently - busy at work but rigging is continuing.
Should have him finally rigged by the end of tonight and an environment (suitably rocky - stony) ready for tomorrow evening.

Best wishes to Obnomauk, ModernHorse and TheKamps.. lets see if we can all make the completion date (my First!)

hoochoochoochoo
06-10-2004, 06:46 PM
always HATED posing models as I've not had to do that often enough but here's a preview of one possible pose

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/posed01.jpg

be brutal - I HAVE to finish this tomorrow as I'm not around on the 12th. Going home with my sketch pad to work on poses....

The hands haven't been posed - our security staff are BAWLING at me to go home and the elctricity will be turned off if I don't leave now...

helppppp!

modernhorse
06-10-2004, 07:14 PM
Hey Hooch -
That pose looks cool. I'd like to see one with him leaning against the door of the cave in an disinterested sort of way, maybe be with his crossbow thingie hanging at his side.

Congrats on getting this far - way ahead of me i'm afreard. :rolleyes:

hoochoochoochoo
06-11-2004, 09:27 AM
thanks for the encouragement Doug!

Been very busy with normal duties this week so haven't done as much as I'd have liked.

Almost the final version - render is strangely pale so I may have some tweaks yet.
Thanks for the suggestion but I don't have time for any more big changes and I'm done in an hour and have to go to London yet again so

here's nearly done - may grow the pubic moss up the side of the building... maybe..

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/finaltroll01.jpg

hoochoochoochoo
06-11-2004, 11:08 AM
Hokay, they will wait no more for me -

here's my Final Final image and I can do no more until Monday.

Light lists on the troll made the background very light and the troll very dark..

yes you read that right, have they changed how light lists work???

So, I changed the light list onto THE SET and the Troll came out as I'd hoped when he's lit. I'm no lighting expert so the longer moss hanging down in fronds is a bit dark to see (too dark)

I'm also NOT going to be able to post to Obnomauks Judging thread so that probably disqualifies me but I ain't here tomorrow and he's not posted a thread yet.

Oh yes, the image..
Have a nice weekend all and best of luck the the competitors!


http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/finaltroll02.jpg

JTalbotski
06-15-2004, 08:58 PM
Whoa! How did I miss all this? What a cool character! Gross but cool! Nice work, hooch.

Jim

violet903
06-16-2004, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by hoochoochoochoo
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choochoosplace/cgtalk/troll/finaltroll02.jpg [/B]


You have to make some Dynamics Tests - Showing Potential....

hoochoochoochoo
06-18-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by JTalbotski
How did I miss all this?

Thanks Jim! Means a lot getting a compliment from you! As to your question, I'm probably on a lot of peoples "ignore" list so don't fret about it. Read your reply elsewhere and hope everything in your life is OK again!

Originally posted by violet903
You have to make some Dynamics Tests - Showing Potential....

Thanks Violet, and nice to see Aussies DO have a sense of humour as to the the trolls original inspiration... hehe!

Tests? I'm no animator but would happily give this guy away for anyone to play with. Going to finish the rigging first though.

violet903
06-21-2004, 07:32 PM
I dont know why, but i really like trolls ;) ! You should use him as your Avatar ! Together we will make the A:M forum X-Rated :)

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