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Tommi
04-22-2004, 10:31 AM
Hehe... since many people are complaining about the fact that this Blender forum on CGTalk seems to be quite dead, I want to setup a fun thread:

Things I LOVE about Blender


I haven't been using Blender for a while, but I started doing my first real steps in 3D and animation from version 1.6 or 1.7 or so... Well... a while ago at least :D


I love the new interface with its floating windows

I love the possibility of rendering with an external raytracer!!!

I love UNDOS!!!!!

I love the general improvements in editing meshes - the features resemble more and more the ones from professional software packages



So lets all hug each other and LOVE Blender!!!

pgregory
04-22-2004, 07:05 PM
I love Blender because...

It can always amaze me with another neat little feature I never knew about.

It is so damn fast, to load and use.

Every feature request I've submitted has got the response "you can already do that, just..."

Cheers

PaulG

Apollux
04-22-2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Tommi

I love the possibility of rendering with an external raytracer!!!


Let me give you a sneak preview of the really-close future:
Integrated Renderman support ! (it is already been tested on the CVS version :applause: )

Tommi
04-22-2004, 08:27 PM
Yay!!! That's the kind of spirit I wanted to see :D

Integrated Renderman is awesome, Appolux! Will you post an info here on release?

And pgregory is really right about that "you can already do"... that's kind of weird in the Blender community, but you got to LOVE that :D :bowdown:

Apollux
04-23-2004, 04:35 AM
About the renderman exporter, here is all that has been officially said on the Developer's Mail List ( http://www.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2004-April/thread.html )

Hi,

I have a patch here soon that uses the yafray exporting code to write out renderman files.
Now I'll need someone to help testing it. Anyone here with renderman experience?

-Ton-

I have a little experience with Aqsis and Pixie Ill give her a shot later this afternoon.

Hi all,
Below instructions and code as received in today. Apparently the developer didn't yet choose to go for the yafray route (render faces), but he notes it might be interesting to check out later on.

I'd like to get some feedback on it!

Thanks,

-Ton-

--------------------------------------------------------

Here is the source code for the RenderMan export (so far). Find attached the files needed plus two light source shaders which have to
be compiled for the RenderMan compliant renderer you are using. Its tested with 3Delight and AIR.

Here a few things:

1. The YFexport path is used for RenderMan as well. So don't forget to set it ...

2. Meshes do not take normals into account (yet)

3. If meshes have the Subdivision Surface button pressed they are exported as (catmull-clark) subdivision surfaces.

4. NURBS surfaces are exported but not NURBS curves

5. If there are no lights in the scene (or the lights are of type "Area", "Sun", or "Hemi") I use the defaultsurface shader which comes with every RenderMan compatible renderer to render without lights.

6. If the light type is "Lamp" no shadows are generated anyway.

7. If the light type is "Spot" the rendering of (raytraced) shadows is dependend on the Shadow" button in the Render tab. If pressed the spot lights cast shadows, if not, no shadows are calculated ...

8. The render resolution should be taken into account correctly (e.g. 50%)

9. The used renderer is hard-coded at the moment. I have to change that. A user setting would be appreciated ...

I have a Python version which can render meshes with several materials, with vertex colors, and with proper normals. This is the next step but I might have a few questions for you before I implement this features.

Another thing is the usage of lattices etc. because I might go down the YafRay route for that (taking the "struct RE_Render R" into account instead of getting the scene from "extern Global G"). Anyway, here it is. Let me know what the people are thinking about it etc. ...

Please note that all this is still on develpment and is unlikely to make it on time for 2.33

pgregory
04-23-2004, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by Apollux
[B]About the renderman exporter, here is all that has been officially said on the Developer's Mail List ( http://www.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2004-April/thread.html )

This is all a bit of a shame. I started work on an Aqsis/Renderman integration on Tuhopuu2 recently, because the other Renderman integrations were showing no progress and I needed it sooner rather than later. I have gone down the Yafray route, i.e. proper integration into the rendering pipeline. I've also used a RIB output library, which gives useful things such as proper proven compliant output, which using printing doesn't give, and easy implementation of things like ReadArchive usage.

Along with my work to produce a true integration, another developer (I won't name him in case he doesn't wish to be named here, I'll check) is writing some Renderman shaders that exactly mimic the Blender materials, making it possible to author the comtent completely inside Blender, complete with texturing and materials, and render it in Aqsis.

We are about ready to submit a patch to the Tuhopuu2 mailing list for this, it is just a shame that there are now 2 paths to Renderman support in development.

Cheers

PaulG

Apollux
04-24-2004, 07:00 PM
And who said that only one exporter could exist?

Look at Yafray, we have 3 yafray exporters for Blender.

(and before you even ask: from what I see on the forums, the heave yafray users usually forget about the integrated exporter and go for the Yable-X python exporter).

Let the best renderman exporter to win !!!

mankor
05-04-2004, 07:02 AM
i like this very much..free post effects..and compositor..wow.. along with great 3d tools..even if you dont do 3d with it..It has this great feature for video effects..
http://download.blender.org/documentation/html/c8160.html

bbirras
05-05-2004, 07:45 AM
it´s not going to be an external export-script, but a fully integratet render-option. just like there are two now internal/yafray...there will be others : aqsis,PRman:bounce:
in other words MTor for blender
just wait for version 3.0:thumbsup:

nebcat
05-21-2004, 11:06 AM
Yafray ROCKS!:buttrock:

hanzo
05-25-2004, 08:24 AM
:beer: heeha I think blender is ok, but :wise: pause you guys are sick, :surprised especialy the lady on top, I mean its not a person, a pet, or even a neat paper wait it -- is -- a PROGRAM.

I think you people need to get a life!:lightbulb

barter frog
05-29-2004, 04:20 PM
coming from the "know-it-all"

hanzo
05-30-2004, 08:57 PM
:rolleyes: no offens, and I don't want to start a war but... YEAH I KNOW IT ALL :thumbsup: GET A LIFE, GEEESS... :cry:

I just think you guys are taking this a lil to far..

I like render engine integration and game engine reintegration .... :cool:

Lourdelle
06-07-2004, 11:34 AM
i love Blender and yafray too

blender become a very interesting freeware

Okan
06-07-2004, 11:58 AM
i don't understand one thing...what is this software mania ?
i mean, he loves blender she loves blender so what? who cares ?
if you are gonna use a software, why do you need what other people think about that software..imho, i don't like blender..
maybe you can ask this question about Maya if you are gonna buy Maya but comeon man..it's free..

hanzo
06-07-2004, 05:50 PM
Okan, there doing this so they can find new features LOL :applause: :beer:

So dude u use maya?, cool same here bro.


PS maya "you are a god among ants..." Magneto from Xmen..

bbirras
06-09-2004, 08:45 PM
blender is NOT freeware
it´s open source, meaning you can get the source and do whatever you like with it!

and : blender sucks!
just like maya, houdini, softimage, etc sucks!!

It really does not matter what kind of software you´re using, you´ll allways get to a point when you hear yourself :
that sucks!

in another threat i read once: (quote an unnown) even so maya sets you back a couple of grant, it´s the software that sucks the least...
well that's the one point of view
I find the workflow with maya and houdini sucks!
I can do the same with blender in a spliff/splaff and in maya i still have to open submenues an do a dozen clicks etc.
o.k. it´s far more powerful, but hey
one sets you back 30 grant
the other is a 30 sec download:thumbsup:

so: every software sucks in one or the other aspect
it´s just a matter of personal preference
and in my opinion blender sucks the least (for my needs),
but that is up to the artist to decide............
but don´t get stuck with one soft!! try whatever there is out there and then decide, if you want to spend 30000$ on a tool. Don´t buy it , just because everybody is using it , and ITS NOT used in the end.......$30000:drool::cry:

hanzo
06-09-2004, 11:32 PM
:beer: well sure man blender does suck like all other aps in it's own way, just blender really sucks in about every way that Maya etc doesn't, and it's not the price that makes a software cool LOL it's the software ability and work flow, the artist world agrees about this.:cry:

pS; I almost forgot to mention I have blender on my computer and have had it on my computer for almost as long as it's life time, blender is better then it has ever been right now ( even looks better ) I'm only sorry to say that it pales in comparison to it's altra powerful and intuitive predecessors..

sorry if I offended anyone, but this is just a software.

correction: maya and max price is about one 0 less then what you said, also both maya and max have free versians, they may not be open source but most artist don't know programing anyway..

Apollux
06-10-2004, 12:28 AM
When you talk about Blender's predecesor, you are refering to TRACES, or to the pre-2.30 series?

About the ¨pale-in-comparison-to-the-heavyweights¨, I guess that everybody is pretty aware of that, even before starting Blender for the first time.

However, you should agree, that when compared with the other free/really inexpensive 3D software, Blender is really ahead of the gang.

And with the current pace that the development of new Blender features and refinement of the old feature are taking, I wouldn't be surprized if in 5 years from now Blender is as famous and acepted as Cinema 4D or Houdini.

hanzo
06-10-2004, 07:11 AM
:thumbsup: thanks for the reply..

I'm sorry I was metaphorically speaking of blenders predecessors ( being applications that have came before blender ) not different versions of the same program.

hmm I would think I made that clear in the context clues, but enough with this jibber jaber. what you just said is very true and it will be as good as those other application you mentioned in just a few years, but as we know the world doesn't stand still for blender and every other application out there will become better then it is already.

or in simpler terms, blender will be as good as others in their present state, but by then that caliber will have been obsolete. :cry:

as before I like blender, but the truth is the truth. and as for forcast there is a need for a application like blender in the world so I think it's here to stay.

Apollux
06-10-2004, 02:57 PM
Leaving all blender-specific-love behind, your theory has a fatal mistake. You assume that all apps evolve at the same rate.

If that were true, then the 3D market share of today would be exactly the same as it was 10 years ago, but we know damm well that it has changed.

Some apps droped development, other lagged on their development cycle, others gained speed, new apps are in the market, user tastes changed, etc.

You can already witnest the change rate:

2 years ago, back when Blender was a child of NaN, you could never NEVER never realistically dream of Blender becoming the popularity success it has become, could you?

Back in the NaN days the total user base of Blender was about 1/4 million of users. Nowadays, those are only the hits that the server get on an average slat dot week. The user base must be well over 1 million users :eek:

And about the evolution rate, Blender has evolved more in the last year than it did in the entire NaN age, so it is a fact that his change rate hasn't a constant speed.

When you compare the amount of innovation put into the heavy weights (Maya, Cinema, Max, XSI) from one full version to the other, and you put it besides the amount of innovation that you see from, i.e., Blender 2.20 to 2.30 you easily come to realise that you are infront the same Linux-Windows escenary.

In the beggining Linux was less feature intensive than Windows and it was a geek's toy, but somehot it was gaining popularity faster than Windows. As you can now, it has come to a point where it is actually a thread to the big weighs market share.

I foretell that something simillar will happen to Blender in the next 10 years as more and more non-blender-afiliated programs start to produce data briges to comunica with Blender, specially if the community keeps gaining momentum as it has been over the last year.

You already saw it happening with Torque, Virtualight and Nurbana. Now (as I type) it is happening with Aqsis, Pixie and all the other renderman renderes.

(I didn't mention Yafray because Yafray is a blender-afiliated app.)

The ¨application comunity value¨ of Blender keeps incrementing, and thus it's value as a 3D app.

hanzo
06-10-2004, 07:34 PM
:bounce: wow you want a fight!

to bad I don't I'm only on the side of the truth, and I don't want to go into details, blender basic foundation not even stabilized and in that case blender is evolving much faster then other programs , that's because other industry standard applications are past that stage and are evolving to new, and I mean all new grounds, for example Maya's ground breaking fluid dynamics, ( before said impassable by Maya developers )

At the same time while blender is still back there with that out dated game dynamics thingy, didn't have any raytrace at the time, and community arguing if they should make blender look better. but I don't want to get into the nity grity because some people are really sensitive about it. I could right an essay on the subject though.

also if any artist had the importunity to get max and Maya full, free, and wasn't scared of a learning curve, they would drop blender like a hot unstable neutron, what blender happens to be.

I even had an argument with one headliner about new features in blender at www.blender.org forum. I was arguing that blender needs those new features ( now being implemented ) and that any off them would be welcome to the artist, because some artist take blender serious enough to try and make industry slandered work with it.

that person during the conversation had stated that blender will never be industry standard and it will always just be a hardcore hobby thing for people like himself.. :cry: he was a programer on linux, very sad man..

this argument can go on until one of the moderators stumble in for a breif check and decide to shut the thread down, but I don't think that is good, so I will not post here and about this subject any longer.

bbirras
06-10-2004, 09:31 PM
obviously Maya is the more powerful tool !!

but for small projects - blender is much faster ! it has a super workflow and you can do thinks with a few steps, whilst in Maya you have to open up submenus and do half a dozen clicks before you get there.....

but in the end it really does not matter what kind of software you use, as long as you are comfortable with it

comparing always is difficult, it?s a matter of taste and needs
if you?re a farmer you don?t want a Porsche
if you?re a yuppie you would not go for the pick-up

big studios don?t care for the odd buck more or less, ass long as the output is right, Maya is industry standard for bigger projects, because it?s reliable and has a powerful renderman exporter, another industry standard
things might change when blender finally has a powerful renderman exporter( it?s in the works I think)
blender is good for some video work, stills, have not heard of it being used at big productions, but take a look at the amount of cg-artists involved there, they might have used it for the odd frame/scene

ok blender is buggy, but normally with closing and opening blender it?s fixed
and yeah:
Maya is 30 grant
blender is a 30 sec download :D

I prefer blender, even so I try not to loose workflow with Maya

at the speed blender is developing now, it will be THE artist tool when it gets to version 3.0!!!

as to open-source tools:
as long as you get the same results....
gimp rocks.............pshop is at 1500$
oodraw is cool.........freehand sets you 1000$ back
scribus works..........quark comes not for free
Linux......................win=$$$$$$

but again:
if you need professional tools, because you need professional output you don?t care spending a couple of grants on software, just as a plumber needs a van and tools, because you?ll get the money back!!
it?s an investment

as for now, most of us here don?t do cg work as a way of making a living
so we use blender because it?s free and it suits our needs
it?s a hobby (even so we see us making shrek3 all alone), it might be for presentations at university, at work, etc. it?s definately not for a 300million$ production (as for now)
(XSI, Maya, max, Houdini, and every other professional tool out there have free learning or valuation versions...so go ahead have a try and see that all of them only cock coffee with water.....even so they promise the world) ;) ;) ;)

wow....i got carried away

Okan
06-10-2004, 09:56 PM
you guys dare you make a comparison between Blender and Maya :) ?

hanzo
06-10-2004, 10:03 PM
maya complet 6 $1999
http://store.alias.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=638807&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=41107&CID=0&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0

3ds max 6 $3495
http://estore.discreet.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=613375&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=37482&CID=0&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0

light wave 7 with free upgrade when version 8 comes to town $1595
http://www.newtek.com/buynow/software/lightwave%2Bdfx.html

Softimage|XSI-4 $ 2225
http://store.softimage.com/store/Products/Details/default.asp?fam=false&ITEMID=151


I wont argue but be honest? 220% more functions, 80% more stability in demanding tasks, you have to work some for it, but it aint that bad.

vanderstrat
06-10-2004, 10:13 PM
I wont argue but be honest? 220% more functions, 80% more stability, you have to work some for it, but it aint that bad.

Stability: Not so. Blender has probably crashed once on me in the past month.

b01c

vanderstrat
06-10-2004, 10:21 PM
Anyway what's your agenda here? Someone in the CGTalk blender forum creates a thread where people post why they like blender and you say "why are you people acting like this about software."

Sure, it would be different if this were the general discussion forum. But it's the blender forum.

Kind of makes sense to see this kind of thing here. People like to communicate what they like about something--just part of being a human being.

So: I love blender (and yes I voted that I wanted to have babies with it :p) because it is opensource (using opensource software is an important philosophical choice (for me anyway :p)) and all of the other myriad of things that have been said here.

linux + blender + gimp.

Cheers, (;))

b01c

bbirras
06-11-2004, 10:46 PM
maya unlimited 4.5 sold at 30000 !!!

complete does not mean complete, it means completely incomplete......:scream:

it´s still more complete than blender (functions)

blender is the coolest tool around, because:

1. there are some guys around programming it, just for the fun of it! THANK YOU !

2. you can achieve the same (or nearly the same) results, as you,d be able to do with 1 or 2 or 30thousand $ tools.....just feels geat to see that!

3. it´´s fun to see that, thanks to the , AHH, so easy integration of yafray you get closer and closer to PR, (even so it takes ages to render)
4. it´s fun how it´s developing, because you can be part of it (or at least think you are,because you´re able to follow every step)

5. it´s cool to be legal ! if you don´t have the money:
DO NOT PIRATE !!!!!!!!!!!
get the learning versions of what ever and use:
BLENDER

hanzo
06-12-2004, 12:52 AM
JUST FOR THE SAKE OF WHATS ACTUALY REAL!!

Maya unlimited ( version 6 ) is sixty eight HUNDRED (6800) not thirty THOUSAND ( 30000 ) like you posted above, ( owns again ) about twenty two THOUSAND dollars cheaper then what you guys keep saying? I gave you the link just look!.. and if you think there is that much of a different's, then actually find out?

Maya unlimited ( 6 newest most powerful version) price link at AW

http://store.alias.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=638810&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=41107&CID=0

lets just start learn how to read before just talking. :wip: I'm starting to really dislink this thread.

Apollux
06-12-2004, 01:26 AM
Actually it sales for US6,999.00. That is 1K more, but still nowhere near 30K.

However, and this question goes for Hanzo, DO YOU LOVE BLENDER?

hanzo
06-12-2004, 02:51 AM
Apollux thankyou for understanding!

for others :cry: you guys don't know how to read english numbers!? how old are you O_o

6,999.00 means?

6, thousand 999. nintynine hundred
( sorry ) 00 is cent.......

maybe this would make it simple for you to understand

30000 is 30,000.00

30, is thousand place 000. is hundred down to one's place, and the last is 00 witch would be cents not dollars! Oo..

and for Apollux question I've been working on blender for a long time, years and I countinue to work on blender when in spare time, I know blender amoung many other programs very well. I don't love but apreciate blender for what it is... ( I like it! )
not what it isn't,

and I'll argue with anyone who make out like it's something it's not.. :cry:

bbirras
06-13-2004, 02:59 PM
4.5 unlimited sold at 30!!

anyway

comparing functionality/price
even at 6,999$
blender is the clear winner!

i think we´re getting ridiculus here anyway


blender is a COOL TOOL!!!!

thats why I like it!!
I would even pay for it!!!


whatever tool we use it´s to get to the final render and it really does not matter what we´re using to get there

let´s have a couple of :beer: birras, salut

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