PDA

View Full Version : XSI v.4.0 Defines New Standards for 3-D Content Creation


Pages : [1] 2

JDex
04-19-2004, 04:38 AM
New version delivers customizable architecture and advanced production tools;
entry-level version delivers unprecedented capabilities at breakthrough price

NAB 2004, Las Vegas (Booth #SL4761) - April 18, 2004 - Softimage Co., a subsidiary of Avid Technology, Inc. (NASDAQ: AVID), today announced the availability of SOFTIMAGE®|XSI® version 4.0 - the latest version of the industry\'s leading nonlinear 3-D production environment. SOFTIMAGE|XSI version 4.0 delivers advanced toolsets, dramatic performance enhancements, and significant advancements to the core architecture of the software, including new customization, project management, and workgroup capabilities. In addition, to bring Softimage\'s professional animation software to a wider audience at breakthrough prices, this new version is now available in three distinct configurations: XSI Advanced, XSI Essentials, and the new entry-level XSI Foundation.

\"With the rapid adoption of SOFTIMAGE|XSI as the primary tool for many major 3-D productions, we\'ve invested heavily to enhance version 4.0 with ground-breaking functionality that addresses the continuously changing demands of our customers. The industry has been waiting for this type of product, and we\'ve delivered it with SOFTIMAGE|XSI version 4.0,\" said Gareth Morgan, Softimage\'s senior product manager. \"Our customers develop the most sophisticated 3-D content out there - and they count on the flexible and open architecture of XSI to get the job done right. Whether it\'s the deep and intuitive implementation of the mental ray® renderer, the nonlinear workflow tools, or the industry-standard scripting language support, SOFTIMAGE|XSI v.4.0 makes the development of high-end 3-D content easier and faster. And, with XSI Foundation, we\'ve designed an extremely cost-effective package to place a professional Softimage solution within the reach of any artist or animator.\"

SOFTIMAGE|XSI offers a number of features that streamline the production process while simultaneously allowing for fast viewing and reduced memory overhead in complex production situations. Using Reference Models and Reference Animation, animators and technical directors can create lightweight scenes, minimize memory usage, and share animation scenes by off-loading animations and partial animation sources to external files. New motion trails, ghosting, and advanced scene playback options also dramatically enhance the in-context visualization of animated content.

More @ XSIbase (http://www.xsibase.com/news.php?detail=916)

And the official info (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v4)

Array
04-19-2004, 04:47 AM
yay!

I specifically like this part:

entry-level version delivers unprecedented capabilities at breakthrough price

:beer:

SheepFactory
04-19-2004, 04:53 AM
base must have leaked this early cause softimage site is not updated yet :shrug:

JDex
04-19-2004, 05:14 AM
SI's online store is updating as we type... YEAH!!!


Do a little dance... make a little love... get down tonight... get down tonight...


Grrr.... longest backup in history... 14min

wmendez
04-19-2004, 05:27 AM
Not a leak, we just post as we get the press releases. Look for some updates on Soft's site soon if not tomorrow.

Good things are coming!

Array
04-19-2004, 05:33 AM
They're still selling Softimage|Toonz?

:eek:

skello
04-19-2004, 05:34 AM
Ahhh!!!! finally....my precious :bounce:

alben
04-19-2004, 05:51 AM
i wonder if the softimage site will include some demo video of xsi 4.0 along with the press release. Anyways, it is good to hear that 4.0 has finally arrived. Now let see the competition between xsi 4.0 and maya 6

Array
04-19-2004, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by alben
Now let see the competition between xsi 4.0 and maya 6

What's the point? Just pick a tool that works for you and use it.

alben
04-19-2004, 05:59 AM
What's the point? Just pick a tool that works for you and use it.


Sorry i mean by the company's business strategy against each other.

implicit
04-19-2004, 11:58 AM
wow, cant await to see

StephanD
04-19-2004, 12:12 PM
I'm glad for both Maya and us Xsi users they're both excellent programs.

LucentDreams
04-19-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Array
They're still selling Softimage|Toonz?

:eek:

Its not SoftImage, its Digital Video Toonz sold and distributed by softimage.

policarpo
04-19-2004, 03:19 PM
Sweet...XSI is within our grasp.

Great news...I am glad this finally happened.

I wonder what tools are missing from the Foundation version (I hope they provide a pretty little chart for us to see). As a print designer I don't need much. :beer:

EdHarriss
04-19-2004, 04:05 PM
Looks like loads of fun. :)

Joel Hooks
04-19-2004, 04:13 PM
What a great move on their part. I've wanted to switch to XSI, or at least add it to my toolset, for a couple of years. This will certainly place it within the range I'd consider.

:thumbsup:

tsuru
04-19-2004, 04:26 PM
XSI v4.0 page on the official website (http://www.softimage.com/products/XSI/v4/)

Have fun :)

Recursive
04-19-2004, 04:34 PM
This isnt much of an update though.
Perhaps this will lead to some plugins with the new plugin architecture
Only things I would find interesting would be uv unwraping and material library


imo the maya6 update looks more sexy(writing this because the press release seams to want to compete with maya due to it being released so close to the maya 6 information)

implicit
04-19-2004, 04:35 PM
the site just got more & more updated and it should be full in few moments.

thanks softimage!

now please just release it for mac osx g5 too and life will be beautiful!

alphatron
04-19-2004, 04:47 PM
So many new features and improvments. The beefed up material editor looks particularly fantastic!

Also, the fact that you can layer and mix dynamic simulations in the mixer is incredible. I can't wait for a detailed PDF outlinng all the new features. Anyone know an ETA on that?

BeWare
04-19-2004, 04:51 PM
great news from Soft! Their entry-level package sounds really interesting ($1,995USD)! A dream come true for price-sensitive folks!:bounce:

JDex
04-19-2004, 04:52 PM
I'm not so big on the XSI vs Maya thing... but this made me laugh.

If you got it, flaunt it... (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v4/XSIvsMaya/)

Stimpy
04-19-2004, 04:55 PM
http://www.softimage.com/home/Press/PressReleases/040418_NAB_syflex.htm

Under this agreement, Syflex's cloth simulator will be seamlessly integrated with the new SOFTIMAGE®|XSI® v.4.0 Advanced non-linear animation software.

kamil_w
04-19-2004, 04:56 PM
>>I'm not so big on the XSI vs Maya thing... but this made me laugh.

It is crippled with misinformations and lies.

Dirty marketing.

pur9e
04-19-2004, 04:57 PM
http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v4/XSIvsMaya/

This one is my favorite.

JDex
04-19-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by kamil_w
>>I'm not so big on the XSI vs Maya thing... but this made me laugh.

It is crippled with misinformations and lies.

Dirty marketing.

Prove it... love to see them pointed out with actual facts... as many in the Maya community often can't supply.

alphatron
04-19-2004, 05:01 PM
Syflex cloth too? Too good to be true. The whole dynamics system seems completely revamped. I wonder if the particles will get a similar treatment.

motoxpress
04-19-2004, 05:02 PM
Did anyone notice the student pricing? $295 for the Advanced ($8995) version? Pretty aggressive I'd say when compared to 3DS and Maya.

GL

JDex
04-19-2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by motoxpress
Did anyone notice the student pricing? $295 for the Advanced ($8995) version? Pretty aggressive I'd say when compared to 3DS and Maya.

GL

Oh yes... I noticed... I noticed quite well thanks... :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

StefanA
04-19-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by green86
This isnt much of an update though.
Perhaps this will lead to some plugins with the new plugin architecture
Only things I would find interesting would be uv unwraping and material library

imo the maya6 update looks more sexy(writing this because the press release seams to want to compete with maya due to it being released so close to the maya 6 information)

This is actually a HUGE update. You will notice this when you are using it. I can't say much since I'm under NDA, but it is more "under the hood" than what you see.
Maya6 isn't that impressive though. The faster Mental Ray implementation is nice, as well as a few new dynamics things. But no major overhauls. Sadly Alias has almost done what discreet did with MAX (in terms of version numbers). But it's still a damn good product, and it will be interesting to see what will happen to Alias under new management.

Either way, people on both sides (Alias and Softimage) will be happy campers. And discreet can slowly die in the dust left behind :)

stefan andersson

kamil_w
04-19-2004, 05:09 PM
>>Prove it...

Among Maya 6 innovations there are

retarget solver which allows you to transfer mtion between diffrent skeletons (human to bird for example)

v.1.0 Paint Push - Soft Modification

paint push was to compete with artisan and it was a joke

soft mod in maya is diffrent

v.1.0 PSD Support Adobe Photoshop file support

compare these to and see for yourself

v.3.0 Image Based Lighting Rendering Image-Based Lighting

the same - Maya has 3+1 approaches to ibl

hair in Maya has self collisions, constraints, passive fills, per follicle control with lots of unique options and more none of which in XSI

there is more (alot more)

3Dfx_Sage
04-19-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by motoxpress
Did anyone notice the student pricing? $295 for the Advanced ($8995) version? Pretty aggressive I'd say when compared to 3DS and Maya.

GL
ohhh........ ohhhh my..... I WANT!

This will definitely help to increase the XSI userbase tremendously. At a price like that, how can any student not want to grab a copy?

StephanD
04-19-2004, 05:10 PM
The Foundation version is the one I'm keeping my eye on. :thumbsup:

Fred Heys
04-19-2004, 05:11 PM
Its all good, I cant wait for this guy to come out, I just hope the software firms wont run each other into the ground with such harsh competitiveness........

Fred Heys
04-19-2004, 05:13 PM
Its all good i cant wait to check this one out, I just hope the 3d software firms dont run each other into the ground with such harsh competitiveness!

kamil_w
04-19-2004, 05:13 PM
---

DKnight
04-19-2004, 05:13 PM
@ JDEX : proove

XSI MAYA 6
v.4.0 Smooth Polygon Smooth
-> Polygon smooth was already in maya 5

v.3.5 Pivots Scale/Rotate Components About Object Pivot Point
-> Maya has pivot manipulations since ages

v.4.0 Ghosting Control what types of objects are ghosted
-> ghosting already available in Maya 5

v.1.0 Paint Push Soft Modification
-> Maya already had brush based geometry manipultaion in v 5

v.1.0 Deforms Ability to deform particles
-> maya has deforms since ages

v.1.0 mental ray® mental ray shader manager
Maya already has MR since v.5

v.3.0 Image Based Lighting Rendering Image-Based Lighting
-> maya has HDRI since v.5

so much about the :" we had the cool the features before Alias" crap

kind of : XSI:" we can do explosions since 1850 , Alias needed until 1940 - well they do nuclear explosions , but who cares - explosion = explosion " :p :bounce:

implicit
04-19-2004, 05:15 PM
hehe: http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v4/XSIvsMaya/

implicit
04-19-2004, 05:18 PM
why should they post untrue things... hmm

KolbyJukes
04-19-2004, 05:21 PM
Whoa! some great news today! XSI 4 and MAYA 6! I can't wait to try out the new XSI, and a new MAYA is always great.

:thumbsup:

-Kol.

KidderD
04-19-2004, 05:23 PM
Wow a real app war... no one is ever going to fall for that kind of pathetic comparison for marketing, so don't worry about it. I was wondering about one thing though, that I have to admit I am curious about, what kind of fluid implementation is in xsi? Any examples would be great. thanks

BonoMan
04-19-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by JDex
Prove it... love to see them pointed out with actual facts... as many in the Maya community often can't supply.


You, seriously, have got to be joking...

- Annotation mode has been in Maya before...I don't know why SI is claiming it's a new feature to Maya.

- Poly Smooth and Poly Bevel are both in Maya already and have been for some time...I don't know why SI is claiming it's a new feature to Maya.

- As for scaling/rotating components about object pivot points..you could already do that and I don't know why SI is claiming it's a new feature to Maya.

- Improved Trax Editor? Well yeah it's improved but it's been in there for a while ...and SI claims that it has an Animation Mixer since version 1.0...ok...so? Does that mean we won't see an "improved Animation Mixer" in future versions? I bet we will...

-Character Menu? What is that in SI? And is it the same thing as the Character Mapper in Maya? What is the Character Mapper in Maya? I'm pretty sure it's something that's been there before just got a redesign in the UI.

- How does the Template in SI compare to the Redirecting Animation in Maya?

- They compare "control what types of objects are ghosted" to just "ghosting" in SI...well "ghosting" has been available in Maya for a while.

- What's neutral pose? Does that just mean setting the "skin" pose or the "initial" pose? If so you can do that in Maya.

- I can't believe they have the gal to compare the "paint push" to soft modification....they are COMPLETELY different...Maya has had their "paint push" (aka Artisan) in Maya for YEARS now.

- I'm pretty sure QuickStretch and "restricting direction of a jiggle" are different....

- They are comparing "deforms"..just general DEFORMS...to the "ability to deform particles".....uh...what the hell? Well Maya has had just general DEFORMS for years now...christ.

- The PSD support is more extensive than SI's

- they compare having "Mental Ray"...just having MR....to "mental ray shader manager"...? WHAT? (Although I will agree Maya's implementation of MR...at least up to version 6...was the worst)

- Image based lighting I'm not too sure...I'd be SI has Maya beat on that...until now.

- You've been able to render particle motion blur in maya forever...why are they claiming this as a new feature to Maya?

- Hair system I'll agree on and

-Fur on SubD's I'll agree on (since I'm assuming you can do fur on subD's in SI...if not then that's another moot argument by them).


Also it's totally unfair how they compare the "new innovations" in XSI to Maya. Everything they list is by no means an "innovation"...And a lot of the stuff they list as "new innovation" in XSI is already in Maya...

Why do they list Variable Audio Editing as a new feature in XSI but not Maya? You can do it in the Maya 6 trax editor.

There's probably a million other things I could pick at but I won't...it's merely underhanded marketing on XSI's part. It's really unfair...

That's like XSI saying "hey we've improved our renderer." and then Maya saying "so what we've been able to render since Maya 1.0!" It's totally out of context and unrelated.....


so there.

StefanA
04-19-2004, 05:28 PM
No fluids in XSI, la maison (french company) has made their own fluids plugin to XSI. But I don't think they will ever release it to the public. The was some examples of it on a webpage, but I don't remember the link.




/stefan andersson

JDex
04-19-2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by kamil_w
>>Prove it...

Among Maya 6 innovations there are

retarget solver which allows you to transfer mtion between diffrent skeletons (human to bird for example)

v.1.0 Paint Push - Soft Modification

paint push was to compete with artisan and it was a joke

soft mod in maya is diffrent

v.1.0 PSD Support Adobe Photoshop file support

compare these to and see for yourself

v.3.0 Image Based Lighting Rendering Image-Based Lighting

the same - Maya has 3+1 approaches to ibl

hair in Maya has self collisions, constraints, passive fills, per follicle control with lots of unique options and more none of which in XSI

there is more (alot more)

mmmmmkay... just to juxtapose your position. I say it is all lies and misinformation! Really I could care less, but I find it so amusing when people toss around slanderous statements (or accusations of slander) while providing no documentation, sources or other credible foundations of fact. You still provided none, but I am quite confident that you are correct on all accounts... or am I???

Edit... and that goes for you too DKnight and BonoMan... as I use them both I can't help but laugh at the "my app is better than yours" from users and the companies. They're both commendable applications.

CGmonkey
04-19-2004, 05:32 PM
Gah why is it so important for you to convince others that YOUR 3d application is the best? Is it to confirm that what you chose is the best and that you haven't wasted your money?

This is excellent news.. I will buy a student license just for the sake of it. Even though I'm a hardcore maya user.

KidderD
04-19-2004, 05:33 PM
Stefan A

Thanks, although I find this statement on the xsi site interesting then.

All simulation effects within XSI share the same integrated forces and dynamics environment, so dynamic constraints, particles, fluids, cloth, and Rigid & Soft Bodies all work together seamlessly.

BonoMan
04-19-2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by JDex
mmmmmkay... just to juxtapose your position. I say it is all lies and misinformation! Really I could care less, but I find it so amusing when people toss around slanderous statements (or accusations of slander) while providing no documentation, sources or other credible foundations of fact. You still provided none, but I am quite confident that you are correct on all accounts... or am I???


This comment absolutely astounds me....

A.) No one is tossing around slanderous statements...if anyone is being slanderous it's XSI for that lame "comparison" chart...

And what more documentation do you want? What proof are you looking for? Just pick up a copy of Maya and you'll seee....it's not like we're claiming Maya has some outrageous super secret "make it beautiful" button. We're just stating that things the XSI chart says are "new" to Maya AREN'T NEW. If Alias chooses to improve a feature in Maya it doesn't make it a NEW feature.

Ask ANYBODY that's worth their salt in Maya to look at that chart and they'll tell you that apparently nobody at SI has picked up a copy of Maya since V3.

This isn't to say that XSI is bad by any means. With their student pricing I can't wait to try my hand at it as I've been very impressed with stuff coming out of that program. But that chart they put up is pure unadulterated bullshit. Simple as that.



edit:

Originally posted by JDex


Edit... and that goes for you too DKnight and BonoMan... as I use them both I can't help but laugh at the "my app is better than yours" from users and the companies. They're both commendable applications.

See this is another thing that pisses me off....You made an accusation...YOU got called on it and now you're trying to backpeddle and be all "hey guys I laugh at ya'll b/c ya'll are all 'my app is better than yours'" Well that won't fly with me...as I said earlier I think they're both great and I can't wait to try out this latest version of XSI. But I think you were contributing to the "my app is better than yours" argument and just got called on it.

JDex
04-19-2004, 05:39 PM
:rolleyes: You're a funny guy, I like you. :p

Lighten up dude. Saying that SI's info is all lies is accusing them of slander. If that is your claim, back it up, that's all... I have and use them both for their strengths. You need to eat some chili and cool out.

Edit, or is it libel... lol that's why I'm not a lawyer.

StefanA
04-19-2004, 05:40 PM
KidderD: well.... in a sense all particles are "fluids". But what I meant was that they don't react as fluids does in Maya. Cause I think you are refeering to "fluid dynamics" right?

best regards

/stefan andersson

KidderD
04-19-2004, 05:42 PM
Stefan A

Yes, I was, I was just curious... hey there's a reason why most big studios have BOTH of these apps.

BonoMan
04-19-2004, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by JDex
:rolleyes: You're a funny guy, I like you. :p

Lighten up dude. Saying that SI's info is all lies is accusing them of slander. If that is your claim, back it up, that's all... I have and use them both for their strengths. You need to eat some chili and cool out.

No...it's not slander. Slander is a false and malicious statement with intent to injure.

XSI started it with that lame chart...and it's false..and their intent is to injure Alias' sales. THAT's slander.

Us maya users proving it wrong is NOT slander.

And you keep saying 'back it up.' Do you want me to go make quicktimes of me using all those features in Maya 3 or 4? Seriously what proof do you want.

But hey...you use Maya yourself you say...so you should know that that XSI chart is wrong. So fire up your copy of Maya and get the proof for yourself....ugh. I'm done.

StefanA
04-19-2004, 05:44 PM
btw people.... CALM DOWN!! this "vs" list is just a PR trick to get people talking. I use both Maya6 and XSI4 and I still think both softwares has their place in production. None of them replaces the other. Both are great tools and I enjoy the updates that are made by both sides.

And another thing... IT'S JUST A SOFTWARE... chill down...

stefan andersson

JDex
04-19-2004, 05:44 PM
Ah I love forums and the you edited you post while I was posting, so you're a backpeddler... dude, I was typing before you responded. F'it... keep up your trolling...

Equinoxx
04-19-2004, 05:45 PM
Could you guys please SPARE the comparission in a flamatory fashion, before I lock down BOTH threads.

It's ok to compare the two new releases, but keep it civil for gods sake.

BonoMan
04-19-2004, 05:47 PM
edited to end the argument...

sorry Equinoxx

RmachucaA
04-19-2004, 05:49 PM
V4 has practically sold itself :wavey:

it has all i asked for and more, not to mention the new sticker price.

version
04-19-2004, 05:50 PM
So, has anyone figured out what the exact differences are between all versions?

Rodi
04-19-2004, 05:54 PM
Truespace is the 'mother' -no contest-:rolleyes:

alphatron
04-19-2004, 05:57 PM
I'm personally waiting on a detailed PDF listing all the new features in detail.

kamil_w
04-19-2004, 06:01 PM
http://www.highend3d.com/xsi/archive/sp.3d?mail_id=69069

Thanks

alexx
04-19-2004, 06:13 PM
*LOL*

now i am *really* interested in one thing:
who (alias or avid) has a really finished package that is ready to sell and who just throws it on the market because the other company does and has a fully bugged version then...

i hate it when competition comes to such a point.. i dont want to be a paying beta tester.. in neither way :/

cheers

alexx

Mastakojo
04-19-2004, 06:15 PM
So i guess soon every 3D softwares gotta copy each other features and would end up be the same,. except the name :cool:
just kidding
I ve been a maya user for 2 years now but the price of XSI is so tempting (299$ compare to 699$ for maya, student liscense of course). I wonder if the switch would be difficult, about the workflow and is it worth it....

EdHarriss
04-19-2004, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by alexx
i dont want to be a paying beta tester..

Hopefully that will not be the case, I know they've done quite a lot of beta testing on XSI.

fr3drik
04-19-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by motoxpress
Did anyone notice the student pricing? $295 for the Advanced ($8995) version? Pretty aggressive I'd say when compared to 3DS and Maya.

GL

Exactly what are you allowed to do with this student version and what would be the difference between student version and their EXP?
Is the student version aimed towards schools or actual students?

JDex
04-19-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by fr3drik
Exactly what are you allowed to do with this student version and what would be the difference between student version and their EXP?

No locked features or limitations other than you cannot use it for commercial use.

3Dfx_Sage
04-19-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Mastakojo
I ve been a maya user for 2 years now but the price of XSI is so tempting (299$ compare to 699$ for maya, student liscense of course). I wonder if the switch would be difficult, about the workflow and is it worth it....
I strongly suggest downloading XSI EXP and learn a bit about it. I've found some .pdf's on softimage.com on switching from Maya to XSI. It's a bit daunting at first if you've pretty much only used Maya, but diversification is good and once you figure out the basics it's not really that different. Plus, once you've learned your second app your third one will be even easier :P

by the way, those of you who want those .pdf's can get them here (http://www.softimage.com/education/Xsi/SelfPacedLearning/Tutorials/default.htm?sorttheme=1442) but you'll have to login to the site (free to make username, if you d/l EXP or own XSI you should already have made one)

antweiler
04-19-2004, 06:46 PM
Mastakojo, the first 2 weeks will be hard, but when youre familiar with maya, you will learn xsi fast. maya and xsi are more similar to each other than maya and max. xsi will force you more to its specific workflow, which might be a good thing, or not.

agreenster
04-19-2004, 06:47 PM
Who was it who once said:

"Do the best you can, where you are, with what you have."

Software isnt 1% as important as the talent/work ethic you bring to it. I mean, lots of studios are still using Maya 3.0 (or earlier) right now and are doing fantastic work!

And look at our friend Victor Navone, scored a job at Pixar by using Animation:Master! I think that proves that talent/ability is key, not whether or not you use Maya v8.0 or XSI v13.5

Noxerus
04-19-2004, 06:56 PM
Personally, I'm waiting for someone to write a Renderman connection on that new rendercore of XSI.. now THAT would be useful! :beer:

HapZungLam
04-19-2004, 06:59 PM
but personally if you ask me go back to use Soft | 3D, I ain't able to create the stuff that i am making today.

gathering
04-19-2004, 07:00 PM
Is it possible to apply procedural bump onto a surface without projection (x,y,z or UV) via mentaray now? It was an issue in previous versions.

JDex
04-19-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by gathering
Is it possible to apply procedural bump onto a surface without projection (x,y,z or UV) via mentaray now? It was an issue in previous versions.

It's a good question... one that we will hopefully get some word on now that 3.3 was anounced.

Mastakojo
04-19-2004, 07:10 PM
Thx for the tips, well maya isnt my first 3d software, i used 3d max 3 b4, and try all the demo version (4.2 and 5), but i just like the maya workflow better, and last year, my school was teaching it, ;p, eventhough i didnt learn much from there, but i had a lot of time to spend witht that software tha tnow i feel very comfortable doin game models , high res and animation, rendering is another story:rolleyes: i guess ill download softimage for hl2 and see which one suit me better,

Martin_G_3D
04-19-2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by JDex
I'm not so big on the XSI vs Maya thing... but this made me laugh.

If you got it, flaunt it... (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v4/XSIvsMaya/)

I think its very childish behaviour.

Unprofessional.

Not a professional way to promote your product at all. You should just promote your own software, and then let the people decide.

Not just childish dissing maya.

Heber
04-19-2004, 07:11 PM
ah yes! ive been hearing about it for too long now its all confirmed ! , this is a great release and i cant wait to get my hands on it:)

dur23
04-19-2004, 07:31 PM
:buttrock: :bounce: :buttrock:

shingo
04-19-2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Martin_G_3D
I think its very childish behaviour.

Unprofessional.

Not a professional way to promote your product at all. You should just promote your own software, and then let the people decide.

Not just childish dissing maya.

Oh come on guys, you're all carrying on as though no one has ever done this before. Alias have many times. I remember well when XSI 1.0 shipped, Alias tried to debunk the news by claiming that non-linear animation had been a feature Alias animation products from the days of Power Animator and that TRAX (which was due for release at about the same time) would deliver the same functionality as XSI had anyway. They also went on to suggest that the industry wasn't interested in NLA anyway.

Whether the comparison is true or not depends on how you look at it. Is it new or isn't it vs does it work properly in the new build. I mean, Maya could juist as easily produce a list of new features in 4.0 that are already in Maya. So what? And most XSI users would probably agree with it.

As of v 5.0, highend3d.com was full of long threads complaining about the absence of many of the features that are now being introduced in 6.0, so to say they have always been there (just becasue they are avilable in the form of a MEL script) is either a matter of perspetive, or simply denial.

Shingo

gmask
04-19-2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by JDex
Prove it... love to see them pointed out with actual facts... as many in the Maya community often can't supply.

Jdex.. I think i will have to put you in a headlock and change my avatar to the Tron guy just to spite those comments. :rolleyes:

Ok so I did some research on these features in XSI versus Maya and maybe some of them aren't completely comparitable but here's what I see the list more as. Anyway we really don't need a flame war over this.

Auto-Hide Layouts______________Icons in the hotbox
Custom Display Host____________Maya does have an API/SDK
XML Table of Contents___________woohoo can I make myhomepage with it?
2-D Raster/Vector Paint__________You can paint with PFX in 2d
Character SDK_________________Maya does have an API/SDK
Construction Modes_____________Contruction history
Variable Audio Editing
Metashaders
Multi-Workgroups_______________Alienbrain® Studio for Maya
FG Lookup/Preview______________Got it
MXF Support___________________Personally I have no use for MXF
Plug-in Renderers_______________Mental ray is a plugin renderer
Reference Animation_____________New Trax editor wLibrary/ you can also get Alienbrain® Studio for Maya
Relational Views________________Hypergraph? could not find an explaintion of this feature on the XSI website
Simulation Ghosting
Dynamic Motors_________________couldn't find an explaination of this feature on the XSI website


One thing XSI doesn't have that Maya does.

An Oscar :p

shingo
04-19-2004, 07:42 PM
One thing XSI doesn't have that Maya does.

An Oscar :p [/B][/QUOTE]

Maya doesn't have an Oscar, Alias does and so does Softimage.

AD

wmendez
04-19-2004, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by StefanA
No fluids in XSI, la maison (french company) has made their own fluids plugin to XSI. But I don't think they will ever release it to the public. The was some examples of it on a webpage, but I don't remember the link.

/stefan andersson

Here is the link
http://grabiller.3dvf.net/site/content/gal_rnd_fluids_eng.html

Recursive
04-19-2004, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by StefanA
This is actually a HUGE update. You will notice this when you are using it. I can't say much since I'm under NDA, but it is more "under the hood" than what you see.
Maya6 isn't that impressive though. The faster Mental Ray implementation is nice, as well as a few new dynamics things. But no major overhauls. Sadly Alias has almost done what discreet did with MAX (in terms of version numbers). But it's still a damn good product, and it will be interesting to see what will happen to Alias under new management.

Either way, people on both sides (Alias and Softimage) will be happy campers. And discreet can slowly die in the dust left behind :)

stefan andersson

Oh, I dont doubt it, every release of XSI so far has been a major update.

Just reading through the webpage makes me think "but none of this will make my work easier"

Guess i'll just havto wait and see

skello
04-19-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by green86
Oh, I dont doubt it, every release of XSI so far has been a major update.

Just reading through the webpage makes me think "but none of this will make my work easier"

Guess i'll just havto wait and see

Have you seen the construction modes video yet?...Looks to me like that alone will streamline and speed up your workflow tenfold :drool:

lukx
04-19-2004, 08:13 PM
yeah! People just take a look at those 3 videos at the bottom of the page
http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v4/features/

lipsync one, showing this construction mode is awesome.

StefanA
04-19-2004, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by wmendez
Here is the link
http://grabiller.3dvf.net/site/content/gal_rnd_fluids_eng.html

Yep! that was the one I was thinking about. Pretty amazing... it shows that it's possible inside XSI to.

thanks for the link Will

best regards

/stefan

raffael3d
04-19-2004, 08:21 PM
Softimage also just announced that the Syflex Cloth simulator will be integrated into XSI 4.0

http://www.xsibase.com/news.php?detail=919

Heber
04-19-2004, 08:24 PM
this keeps getting better and better syflex now?? great,

but why wasnt this added on the softimage site? is there any more features not yet listed?

gmask
04-19-2004, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by shingo
One thing XSI doesn't have that Maya does.

An Oscar :p

Maya doesn't have an Oscar, Alias does and so does Softimage.

AD [/B][/QUOTE]

Just doing my share to spread around inaccuracies.. :blush:

You're right though Alias was awarded and Oscar and so has Avid.. I couldn't find anything about Softimage being awarded one... though all of these companies have been used for a huge number of Oscar winning films.

KaB
04-19-2004, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by raffael3d
Softimage also just announced that the Syflex Cloth simulator will be integrated into XSI 4.0

http://www.xsibase.com/news.php?detail=919

I must say, I am impressed with this. I am a Maya user but this is defiantly turning my head. I will be watching SI to see what happens next.

shingo
04-19-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by rayfusion
this keeps getting better and better syflex now?? great,

but why wasnt this added on the softimage site? is there any more features not yet listed?

You bet! :bounce:

Digital Backlot
04-19-2004, 08:35 PM
I think we've come to a point in history where anyone of them, Maya Max, and XSI will do the tricks. It's just a matter of which one is your company using these days. I've used them all and they all do about the same thing. Some faster and some slower in areas. I happen to use max simply because it has been the Industry standard for making games over the last 11 years. Now if I was going into the film biz again, I'd pick Maya just because it has a better foot hold in the marketplace. I loved using Lightwave while working at Foundation. At first I thought it sucked but, after "learning" it lol I found it to be a very fast modeling packadge but later found that Max could do alot of the same things. and look, everyone is using it!

So this whole, "my software is better" is just as sad as saying my PC is better then yours...

We could allways going into Mac VC PC but let's not waste our time with that one...

All I know is, a new version of XSI means (just like all 3D software) look forward to new bugs that they'll have you purchase so as to have the public bug test for them through pain and suffering. yippee.....

surripere
04-19-2004, 08:40 PM
All the heated debates about software package supremacy is a part of human nature. It's the same with religions, Mac vs. PC, nationalism, etc... People are just insecure about whehter they've made the right choice with the group that they identify with themselves and have to over-compensate by being so in-your-face and zealotous about defending it. It's probably the one aspect of humanity that will lead us all to total self-destruction.

Iysun
04-19-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Martin_G_3D
I think its very childish behaviour.

Unprofessional.

Not a professional way to promote your product at all. You should just promote your own software, and then let the people decide.

Not just childish dissing maya.


I personly love it. its just friendly competition :D, which is better for us consumers

and yes its here!!!

BonoMan
04-19-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by surripere
All the heated debates about software package supremacy is a part of human nature. It's the same with religions, Mac vs. PC, nationalism, etc... People are just insecure about whehter they've made the right choice with the group that they identify with themselves and have to over-compensate by being so in-your-face and zealotous about defending it. It's probably the one aspect of humanity that will lead us all to total self-destruction.


I agree with this...

But I'd also like to say that most of the 'heat' is never really software vs software...it may be like that for the first few posts of any argument but it generally just boils down to person against person with all regards to what we're actually arguing about thrown out the window.

implicit
04-19-2004, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by skello
Have you seen the construction modes video yet?...Looks to me like that alone will streamline and speed up your workflow tenfold :drool:

where did you see the construction mode video?

afaik there are only 3 "free" new features videos and the rest would be only screenshots, no?

Ezz
04-19-2004, 09:02 PM
http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v4/features/

at the buttom the lipSync video

Very cool stuff...
And please notice the points on the subD-model

Nice

foxco
04-19-2004, 09:16 PM
Hugs computer


cant wait to use it =D


if anyone gets the full list of new features lplease post it


/xsifox:thumbsup:

ps the new construction mode. is F***ing sweet

implicit
04-19-2004, 09:18 PM
ezz, what do you mean about the points? what's so different about them now than it was before?
i dont see any difference.

ChristianFischer
04-19-2004, 09:21 PM
phantom points like in lightwave :)

you can manipulate the points directly instead of having to deal with the control cage ...

StephanD
04-19-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Chrischan
phantom points like in lightwave :)

you can manipulate the points directly instead of having to deal with the control cage ...


:buttrock:

lukx
04-19-2004, 09:24 PM
on subD-model, points didn't snap to wire in XSI 3.5.

implicit
04-19-2004, 09:37 PM
oh yes thats true, noticing it right now, it felt so familiar i thought it was always there.

cool, very nice.

onlooker
04-19-2004, 09:39 PM
It's to bad for Mac users they don't make a Mac version. But it's good for Alias. They have the Mac side all tied up other than Lightwave, but that's not in the same class of application is it.

I'm glad to see you guy's got an update. I'm excited for you!

shingo
04-19-2004, 09:46 PM
You're right though Alias was awarded and Oscar and so has Avid.. I couldn't find anything about Softimage being awarded one... though all of these companies have been used for a huge number of Oscar winning films. [/B][/QUOTE]

Softimage were awarded an Oscar back in the Jurasic Park days of Soft 3D. It was a while ago. Don't expect too many people to remember.

raffael3d
04-19-2004, 10:06 PM
for the oscar discussion: in 1997 Softimage was awarded with an Oscar plaque (not the actual oscar, but a technical award by the Acdemy), for the invention of Inverse Kinematics.

Commiekeebler
04-19-2004, 10:39 PM
Inverse Kinematics? Now there's an Oscar!
No question about it. Hell I'd give 'em two for that.

Commiekeebler
04-19-2004, 10:43 PM
Personally, really happy with soft modification in Maya. It was lagging behind in that area, now it's got the best implementation of the idea that I've seen.

The flexibility of first moving the point, then be able to adjust the radius of its effect is just plain nice - very tactile and customizeable. Now I'm curious what soft of implementation of the magnet/soft selection/soft modification does XSI have. Gotta ask the resident XSI fan at work tomorrow.

shingo
04-19-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Commiekeebler
Inverse Kinematics? Now there's an Oscar!
No question about it. Hell I'd give 'em two for that.

Actually I thought it was for the charcter module.

ostov
04-19-2004, 10:46 PM
I remeber hearing some talk about a build in 3d painting system. Is this the fx tree painting? Somebody should quote me on this... :)
Nice features and let the fire burn out ;)

Shinova
04-19-2004, 10:46 PM
I'm happy they've bumped down the price by a fairly significant degree. :)

shingo
04-19-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by ostov
I remeber hearing some talk about a build in 3d painting system. Is this the fx tree painting? Somebody should quote me on this... :)
Nice features and let the fire burn out ;)

It's actualyl part of the compositor. A full raster and vector paint system with tracking, bsed on the now deceased but still powerful Matador Paint app. But no, it isn;t "yet" a 3D package.

implicit
04-19-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by onlooker
It's to bad for Mac users they don't make a Mac version. But it's good for Alias. They have the Mac side all tied up other than Lightwave, but that's not in the same class of application is it.

I'm glad to see you guy's got an update. I'm excited for you!

yes a mac version of xsi would be a dream. unfortunately xsi seems being programmed in a fashion that doesn't really allow the porting quickly (mainwin-something), that works mainly with windows & linux. but then again if it works on linux it should be able to run on os-x too. it's maybe just a matter of user-requests. maybe.

Annuostivix
04-19-2004, 10:58 PM
haha, did anyone notice...

foundation - everyhting you need
essentials - everything you want
advanced - everything there is

So... The essentials package covers everything we need and want, I'm assuming. I guess the advanced package is all the dumb stuff we don't need or want :D ;)

Mazer
04-19-2004, 11:03 PM
Annuostivix :applause: nice one.

Well and exacly what is "everyhting I need" and what's the diference between everything I need , "everything I want" and all the rest that "I don't need or want" (why should I buy that one :surprised )

rock
04-19-2004, 11:04 PM
I have to say the pricing is tremendous. But cheaper price will always be welcomed.

XSI Experience - everything you need but don't want; everything you want but don't really need. :)

Originally posted by Annuostivix
haha, did anyone notice...

foundation - everyhting you need
essentials - everything you want
advanced - everything there is

So... The essentials package covers everything we need and want, I'm assuming. I guess the advanced package is all the dumb stuff we don't need or want :D ;)

rock
04-19-2004, 11:08 PM
I have to say the pricing is tremendous. But it could always be cheaper.

XSI Experience - everything you need but don't want; everything you want but don't need. :)

Originally posted by Annuostivix
haha, did anyone notice...

foundation - everyhting you need
essentials - everything you want
advanced - everything there is

So... The essentials package covers everything we need and want, I'm assuming. I guess the advanced package is all the dumb stuff we don't need or want :D ;)

raffael3d
04-19-2004, 11:10 PM
good new pricing structure!


2'000 for foundation
4'000 for essentials
9'000 for advanced

maya pricing:
2'000 for complete
7'000 for unlimited

quid
04-19-2004, 11:19 PM
the pricing is great--it'll help many people I know buy seats.

about the alias vs xsi page, people need to lighten up. that was pretty funny and i'm a maya user too. if they just added some flies buzzing around the maya side of the table and i would have hurt myself laughing.

Nocturn
04-19-2004, 11:37 PM
Exactly, it's all in the spirit of healthy competition. I'm sure both teams are proud and serious of their work, but you need to act childish and immature SOMETIMES :p It's good for the soul hehe...

Now where are those damn pdf's???

gjordan
04-19-2004, 11:40 PM
that student pricing is a steal, now i guess students wont actually steal - xsi4.0

but i wonder whats tha catch, i havent found nething bad bout the student deal yet.

and its the advanced versions at $295


i might actually buy it this time and get the box wit the cool design and all the manuals and video stuff

JDex
04-19-2004, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by quid
about the alias vs xsi page, people need to lighten up. that was pretty funny and i'm a maya user too. if they just added some flies buzzing around the maya side of the table and i would have hurt myself laughing.

Exactly! :beer:

MCronin
04-20-2004, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by shingo
Softimage were awarded an Oscar back in the Jurasic Park days of Soft 3D. It was a while ago. Don't expect too many people to remember.

They weren't awarded an Oscar, It was a Scientific and Engineering award for the actor module of Softimage. Not the same thing as an Oscar. The only companies who have actual Oscars for software AFAIK are the guys who did Ultimatte, Pixar for Renderman, Alias for Maya, and the ProTools guys.

Other than that they have all been lesser awards. Alias and Wavefront each picked up one, Pixar picked up a couple, Softimage picked up one, SideFX picked up a couple.

Also, IK was not invented by SI, and I don't even think they were the first to implement it in software.

wmendez
04-20-2004, 12:14 AM
The following was just posted on the XSI Mailing List from the author of the now infamous XSI VS Maya page



Hi everyone

Chinny here - the author of XSI vs Maya.

Today Softimage and Alias announced our latest offerings. Today being the first day of NAB. As such we knew there would be alot of "oooh what's new" threads on many forums.

So to answer you all...yes this comparison was done in a way to make fun of all the times that XSI's true innovations have been debunked by our competitors, as well as to get everyone talking.

It has been an enormous effort by everyone at Softimage to bring this version to market. As you all know we try and balance the huge ammount of customer requests while at the same time maintain a consistent level of innovation. Without innovation the industry would become one stagnating jam-pot.

We also have hundreds of new features and enhancements to almost every aspect of the software. The whole feature list will be ready for when we ship and so we will not need any more comparisons - the list will speak for itself.

I know you will all enjoy the new innovations in XSI v.4.0 and you'll probably wonder how you ever did without them!

I will now go back to being the "laid back" person most of you know, in my reclining chair by a Vegas swimming pool :-) (I wish)

Chinny

anesthan
04-20-2004, 12:30 AM
Hi

Not sure if anyone actually noticed that the educational prices were upgrades and not full versions. Does anyone know what the full educational prices are if you don't have an earlier version of xsi.

Thanks
Anesthan

SheepFactory
04-20-2004, 12:32 AM
i love you softimage :love:

EdHarriss
04-20-2004, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by rayfusion
this keeps getting better and better syflex now?? great,

but why wasnt this added on the softimage site? is there any more features not yet listed?

You have no idea. :)
There is so much in this release.
I wish I could tell you.
We will just have to wait for the list from Soft to come out.

SheepFactory
04-20-2004, 01:08 AM
the Syflex partnership is on the softimage website:


http://www.softimage.com/home/Press/PressReleases/040418_NAB_syflex.htm

implicit
04-20-2004, 01:29 AM
ed. why do you know more than we do, you little pervert :scream: making us even more impatient.

wonder what those other things would be then. i guess just "small" but usable things like those ghostpoints (?)

Mazer
04-20-2004, 02:25 AM
Ok, so, without going into new features, I'm looking at 3.0 experience right now, what modules do I have to remove to get "foundation"?

SheepFactory
04-20-2004, 02:30 AM
actually foundations has more features than 3.5 essentials.

you get cloth and softbody , which was only included in advanced before.


So pretty much you just remove hair and fx tree and you get foundations.

EdHarriss
04-20-2004, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by implicit
ed. why do you know more than we do,

Maybe I beta test for soft?
Maybe I just know the right people?
Who knows...?
Its a mystery.

Reo
04-20-2004, 02:39 AM
i just pee'd my self....

drool

new toys

withanar
04-20-2004, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by EdHarriss
Maybe I beta test for soft?
Maybe I just know the right people?
Who knows...?
Its a mystery.

I know you, but I consider myself a left person.

The dramatic irony is tangible, innit?

As a hardened industry vet, I love this phase of the 3D game. To me, it feels like advancing a character level in my metaphorical 3D power user RPG. Ad though you've been fighting in the dungeons of production for a long time and your gear is starting to weigh you down.

With the next big release, you get a shot in the arm, a new sword, and bonus armor. It's time to go after bigger, badder monsters. But even more fun is seeing the ways everybody else is going to creatively combine new legos A thru Z once a larger user base has at them.

Mazer
04-20-2004, 03:13 AM
So pretty much you just remove hair and fx tree and you get foundations.

Hum... that would be too good to be true... you are maibe descriving essencials?

I'm gessing it would have the dinamics, minus syflex, no hair, no compositing, no nurbs,and none of those flashy new things ( those we dont need nor whant :D ) ?

Ed, you can't say anithing more can't you ;) ?

SheepFactory
04-20-2004, 03:15 AM
mazer no its true and yes it good. It has all the flashy new improvements to modelling and animation + full particle suit + mr with two render nodes.

essentials has the rigid body dynamics and some additional satellite render nodes.

its a great deal the foundations package is not stripped of anything by any means.

you can see whats in what at the softimage website.

holosynthetic
04-20-2004, 03:22 AM
I didn't want to read through the whole thread, besides i doubt its in here, but is there any information about xsi 4.0 being compatible with 1024x768 resolution monitors (i prefer 15" monitors and thats the highest it will go) and it seems the demo of 3.0's lowest resolution setting is just above the one i need...i don't feel like buying a new monitor just to try out a software to see if i like it

thanks for your help :)

TiSOy
04-20-2004, 03:27 AM
NIce to see that XSi ver came out,,,,,,The student pricing sounds pretty good.....Come to think of it,,,thats a good strategy to get new users to use xsi and move to xsi.......maybe maya should bring there student price down too.....but either way, they both good.....:beer:

JDex
04-20-2004, 03:28 AM
From what I understand... they revamped the layout system so smaller layouts are more feasible...

BeCOOL_MiN
04-20-2004, 03:30 AM
awesome...

I just check some video about XSI 4.0 on their website...


I think "construction mode" is the one of best thing that is new in XSI 4.0

Can't wait till try!

:thumbsup:

Mazer
04-20-2004, 03:40 AM
Sheep Factory

Dam! It is a very good deal :beer:

motoxpress
04-20-2004, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by anesthan
Hi

Not sure if anyone actually noticed that the educational prices were upgrades and not full versions. Does anyone know what the full educational prices are if you don't have an earlier version of xsi.

Thanks
Anesthan

Nope. those are for the full version. Either a permanent license ($295) or a 1 year license ($175).

Edu store (http://store.softimage.com/store/Products/Details/default.asp?fam=false&ITEMID=182)

I don't see anything about the word 'upgrade' on this page.

mx

bmwolf
04-20-2004, 04:46 AM
I can't believe the student prices. it's a godsend to all us poor as hell students. even the comercial prices sound good. so the store says ships in 4-6 weeks. any idea when they will release the full spec sheet? and is it always a 4-6 week wait when you order from them or is it just because it's brand new?

Locutus
04-20-2004, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by motoxpress
Did anyone notice the student pricing? $295 for the Advanced ($8995) version? Pretty aggressive I'd say when compared to 3DS and Maya.

GL
I've been interested in XSI for some time, but I have always been turned off by it's price.
Not any longer. As an educator this price point is amazing. Currently I teach and use Lightwave, however, with it's $295 education license price point, I will probably make a change.

The Softimage XSI user base will most definitely grow, now that it's ed. license is less than ALL of the other 3D apps ed. license price.
3dsmax - $500 educ.
Lightwave 3D - $395 educ.
Maya - $800 educ.

Truly awesome.

Signal2Noise
04-20-2004, 06:06 AM
I must admit this looks really sweet. I've long considered plunking down the chump change for this app but it has been out of financial reach. Until now it seems.

I also like Avid's tag lines for the three suites:

Everything you need
Everything you want
Everything there is

Pretty clever marketing :thumbsup:

3Dfx_Sage
04-20-2004, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by Signal to Noise
I also like Avid's tag lines for the three suites:

Everything you need
Everything you want
Everything there is

Pretty clever marketing :thumbsup:
would have been much better as:

Everything you need
Everything you want
Everything you can dream

Renderman_XSI
04-20-2004, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by holosynthetic
I didn't want to read through the whole thread, besides i doubt its in here, but is there any information about xsi 4.0 being compatible with 1024x768 resolution monitors (i prefer 15" monitors and thats the highest it will go) and it seems the demo of 3.0's lowest resolution setting is just above the one i need...i don't feel like buying a new monitor just to try out a software to see if i like it

thanks for your help :)

From what i understand, it would adapt to your resolution, last i heard. :bounce:

derelict
04-20-2004, 07:01 AM
Commercial SRP: $ 8.995*
Student/Teacher price: $ 295*

anyone feel like enrolling for class?

derelict
04-20-2004, 07:05 AM
edited

-JT-
04-20-2004, 07:06 AM
So now XSI foundation is 2000$ !? like Maya complete, so technically 3dsmax is the most expensive one now !!!
They'll be forced to change, competition is healthy...

And the essential question : XSI 4, MAYA 6, 3DSmax 6, LIGHTWAVE 8... who will reach 10 first ???? ;)

lukx
04-20-2004, 07:41 AM
I got the feeling that 3dsmax is far, far behind competition.

neods
04-20-2004, 07:46 AM
Discreet can't keep those prices for long, and max has some good points like Vray, Reactor and the polygon tools.. but Maya and definetly XSI are getting a huge leap technicaly, when compared to the slow old max..

-JT-
04-20-2004, 07:49 AM
What about Character studio ?? Many studios wouldn't want to drop max because of this.
What's the equivalent for Maya and Xsi ?

michaeli
04-20-2004, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by -JT-



And the essential question : XSI 4, MAYA 6, 3DSmax 6, LIGHTWAVE 8... who will reach 10 first ???? ;)

Cinema4D , I'm sure. ;)

mankor
04-20-2004, 08:34 AM
What about Character studio ?? Many studios wouldn't want to drop max because of this.What's the equivalent for Maya and Xsi ?

the standard bones in these pakages far exceed anything character studio can do..(if you want proof just look at half life 2) maya and xsi have non linear animation by default without an expesive plugin(cs) and both have prebuilt biped rigs and many other premade rigs all of which can be customised, resized and reused for diffrent models with animation and mixed with another models preexisting animations and its all very simple to do(can be done in seconds)...

Nocturn
04-20-2004, 08:38 AM
So we'll have to wait about 1 month until we see the full feature list? Why???:cry:

The cloth in foundation, I take it then it's the "old" cloth from XSI Advanced?

acidboy
04-20-2004, 08:49 AM
Nocturn: a month? u mean that literally?
If so, where'd ya hear that?

It's kinda annoying not having any idea when xsi4 is gonna be released....well actually it's driving me nuts :cry:

Nocturn
04-20-2004, 09:10 AM
Well, just from looking at the SI store. It says XSI Foundation: "Pre-order item. Will ship in 4-6 weeks".

Why they don't post a feature list now....

Commiekeebler
04-20-2004, 09:28 AM
Alright, it's settled: the guy who wrote this XSI vs Maya list is a bozo.

The guy must be the marketing type who doesn't really know both software packages well. Apparently it was all just a big joke.

In the list, they decided to compare XSI Paint Push to Maya new soft modification. Why?!

XSI Paint push is like the Artisan in Maya.

XSI has its own soft selection called 'proportional' or something like that and Maya's new soft modification tool copies it 1 to 1, feature for feature, down to the interface.

So, both apps have the stuff now. But the guy who wrote that list is a bozo. See, he must have been joking, because if he were serious he'd put an effort into the list to make sure it doesn't have such silly errors. So there.

Anyhow I've had enough software flame wars for three lifetimes so I'm gonna say: both software pieces are great, too bad they're run by bozos and that's my two cents.

(Softimage are bozos because of the immature bozo list, Alias team are bozos for including soft modification in this version only and not two releases ago!) :)

implicit
04-20-2004, 09:48 AM
it's a big big pity that softimage is selling the new features video now.
of course there are many, but still. it was a nice service and a big appetizer for users & others.
at least they could have made them available for download (& a bit cheaper) and not letting us wait 4-6 week preorder-waiting.

version
04-20-2004, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Sheep Factory
actually foundations has more features than 3.5 essentials.

you get cloth and softbody , which was only included in advanced before.


So pretty much you just remove hair and fx tree and you get foundations.

Nice, it gets better and better, Foundations is gonna be perfect for many people.

Stone
04-20-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by -JT-
And the essential question : XSI 4, MAYA 6, 3DSmax 6, LIGHTWAVE 8... who will reach 10 first ???? ;)

considering lightwave used 15 years to get to 8 they wont make 10 for another 4. it annoys me though that the other packages have these scheduled release dates, and force full point versions out wheter or not there is enough new improvements for them.

i personly dont care to much for the fancy features and useless feature comparrison charts. loads of features doesnt make a good program, and it always comes down to the 'feeling' the program has to it.

now, im a modeler and to me maya has the worst modeler out there, while xsi is second to lightwave. perhaps with v4 they will get closer still to lightwave. heard they copied the knife tool, which is a step in the right direction.

/stone

Nocturn
04-20-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Commiekeebler
(Softimage are bozos because of the immature bozo list, Alias team are bozos for including soft modification in this version only and not two releases ago!) :)

Go back to your tractor factory, russky :scream:

I'm kidding, I'm kidding...

Funny how these threads always end up EXACTLY the same. You got one bunch saying the new features are a bit lackluster and don't justify the upgrade, then the other bunch saying they don't care for the new fancy features....

How do you think this software gets made? You think a bunch of SI programmers lock themselves up in a room for six months, trying to come up with cool stuff, and what they THINK the customers and the market wants?

They go to the companies, they look at how people work everyday, what's practical about their app, what's not etc...

And what's with the freaking knife tool?? Almost every time you see a post about modeling in XSI it's: yeah but does it have a knife tool? OH MY GOD, IT DOESN'T HAVE A KNIFE TOOL!!! What a tragedy! If you want to split a row of polys all around the mesh, just use the split edge hotkey, and press mmb on an edge, bam, polys are split. Use the ctrl key to also place the new edges exactly inbetween two existing rows of egdes. If you want to split a portion of the mesh, just use the add edge tool. I mean when you have a reasonably evolved mesh, using the knife tool to cut across the whole mesh isn't practical at all, so it's not THAT useful.

Just chill out and admire the work of those brilliant SI programmers, they deserve it. How can anyone doubt that this release is the biggest change in XSI yet. It's huge!

zandernice
04-20-2004, 11:54 AM
Im getting Maya 6 because its 2 more than softimage 4.

alexyork
04-20-2004, 12:31 PM
I'm sticking to MS Paint... that thing has per-pixel painting! Beat that softimage.... j/k lol.

EdHarriss
04-20-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Nocturn
The cloth in foundation, I take it then it's the "old" cloth from XSI Advanced?
Yes, you are correct.
The new (Syflex) cloth is what you get with the new Advanced.

StephanD
04-20-2004, 01:43 PM
I was spoiled by EXP,too bad the hair module isn't in Foundations but I'll live with it I mean,the price.

I remember first hearing about Langlois back then when he created it and it's amazing how far this product has gone eventhough I have no idea how many companies owned it after he sold it.

Softimage is a Legend in Québec province.

yog
04-20-2004, 01:53 PM
Now if Softimage would offer a cross grade on top of the new price I would be there like a shot :beer:

Either that or I'll have to start searching the streets for a student willing to order for me :p

Silver_Angel777
04-20-2004, 02:06 PM
Hi !

anyone know which is the best software to buy for someone like me !?

I want to get back into my CGI stuff, but have only used 3D Studio Max in the past.....but being a 3D modeler in the past whilst being into product design etc, and just being someone who isn't the best 2d artist, but flies with real 3D model making so much so i can entirely model from imagination without needing sketchwork, as I can think to sculptures far better than sketch development........well my question is, as a natural sculptor and modelmaker type, which software should I go for, ......SOFTIMAGE or MAYA...... i haven't the money or resources or time to experiment with them as you only know iif it's for you when you get to be able to use such softwares properly and have experience, and i can't do that.......what i need to know is which program best suits and best helps a natural sculptor achieve his results, if he is best suited to working in real 3D but needs a software solution to work in the CGI industry....

I guess any true sculptors and model makers out there who know what I am going on about, please let me know your experiences.....I do know a friend once said SOFTIMAGE was probably more for true sculptor thinking types, but was harder to use than MAYA< and he also said 3D MAX was easiest to use of the lot and had some great renders.....

Cheers...

EdHarriss
04-20-2004, 02:10 PM
Read this (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19315). It may help you out a bit.

AdrianLazar
04-20-2004, 02:39 PM
as a natural sculptor you should try z-brush

Commiekeebler
04-20-2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Nocturn
Go back to your tractor factory, russky :scream:

I'm kidding, I'm kidding...



Hmm, go bomb a third world country, american.

So am I. Cheers. :wavey:

substrauss
04-20-2004, 03:00 PM
Amazing

substrauss
04-20-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Nocturn
Go back to your tractor factory, russky :scream:


You are stupid :thumbsup:

substrauss
04-20-2004, 03:08 PM
Oh and about XSI 4.
If the majority doesn't change to it within the next two years, it's because of incomprehensibly colossal innovations in other packages.
Softimage has lowered its price, like we all wanted. It's listening and responding, unlike other new packages ;)

Commiekeebler
04-20-2004, 03:21 PM
Two words: Price War.

Gotta love it.

PokeChop
04-20-2004, 03:33 PM
Never considered trying XSI.

Until now.

Thanks Avid.

mummey
04-20-2004, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Commiekeebler
Two words: Price War.

Gotta love it.

IF only is were so simple:

1. My school is currently only Alias and Discreet for 3d modeling.

2. Our guy who knew XSI switched to 3dsmax because its what the place uses.

3. We just got rid of our Avid workstations and replaced them with Mac G5's running Final Cut Pro.

We're not big on Avid right now...

-B

shingo
04-20-2004, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by walshbem
IF only is were so simple:

1. My school is currently only Alias and Discreet for 3d modeling.

2. Our guy who knew XSI switched to 3dsmax because its what the place uses.

3. We just got rid of our Avid workstations and replaced them with Mac G5's running Final Cut Pro.

We're not big on Avid right now...

-B

Apple are big on education. Always have been. So it's stands to reason that FCP would be a no brainer for most education facilities.

implicit
04-20-2004, 05:53 PM
thats why i say, please softimage release xsi for mac.

Nemoid
04-20-2004, 06:17 PM
Wow the price of 4 is really tempting !! :applause: :applause:
is there a XSI 4 detailed feature list yet? want to know more about this puppy....

3dtutorial
04-20-2004, 06:21 PM
thats why i say, please softimage release xsi for mac.

Don't hold your breath -- that is never likely to happen.

Cheers,

JRS

shingo
04-20-2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by 3dtutorial
Don't hold your breath -- that is never likely to happen.

Cheers,

JRS

Never? Hmmm, strong words. It stands to reason that if there is a market opportunity then Softimage would be shooting themselves in the foot not to.

As popular as the Mac is (and is spite of the questionable hype about PIXAR), it is yet to establish itself as a popular 3D platform. Until it does, the cost benefits of porting to OSX are not entirely clear.

EdHarriss
04-20-2004, 06:27 PM
Until there is mainwin for mac or XSI stops using mainwin in its porting process, a mac XSI is not very likely.

3dtutorial
04-20-2004, 06:29 PM
Never? Hmmm, strong words.

Yup, and I stand by them.

I know of what I speak ;)

Cheers,

JRS

SheepFactory
04-20-2004, 06:56 PM
hey joe , are there any v4 tutorial vids in the works?

it would make perfect sense for you guys to release some new vids when v4 ships since there'll be a horde of new users hungry for training.

3dtutorial
04-20-2004, 07:06 PM
Hi Sheep Factory,

At the moment most of the stuff we have coming over the next few months is still XSI v.3X based -- but of course it will still all be applicable to V4.

We are working with V4 now and will have V4 based training later in the year.

And yes, v4 brings a tonne of new stuff to learn about -- even us ;)

But we need to clear the queue of 3.x based production that is still in the pipeline and there is a lot of it still to come.

Stay tuned.....

Cheers mate,

Joe

wmendez
04-20-2004, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by anesthan
Hi

Not sure if anyone actually noticed that the educational prices were upgrades and not full versions. Does anyone know what the full educational prices are if you don't have an earlier version of xsi.

Thanks
Anesthan

Is ths what you need?
http://store.softimage.com/store/products/family/educational/acad_st.asp?fam=true

version
04-20-2004, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by 3dtutorial
Yup, and I stand by them.

I know of what I speak ;)

Cheers,

JRS

I think we're seeing the Mac gain back where it lost out for years, the aydio/video market, it's what Apple are really pushing now. XSI on the Mac? I'm not for it just now even though I use the Mac for mostly everything bar 3D.

The demand isn't there, the cost to port without mainwin (there won't be a mainwin on OS X in the near future) would be a burden to SI. We just have to look at the competing pakages that are on the Mac just now: Lightwave, it's core component, the HUB, is virtually useless at times, creatong more problems than needed; Maya, I thin kwe all know the issues there on the Mac, it's, for me, the worst port out of any of the other Maya releases. That's not even touching 3rd party developers, and hardware manufacturers support.

One other thing to note, is that if SI did undertake a port of it to OS X, then how muuch would that impact on the already strong, and workking versions out there? Would development cycles slow down, etc?

Anyhoo, SI have just released an amazing deal, one which wold make any sane person buy a PC to use it :p

Renderman_XSI
04-20-2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Nocturn


And what's with the freaking knife tool?? Almost every time you see a post about modeling in XSI it's: yeah but does it have a knife tool? OH MY GOD, IT DOESN'T HAVE A KNIFE TOOL!!! What a tragedy! If you want to split a row of polys all around the mesh, just use the split edge hotkey, and press mmb on an edge, bam, polys are split. Use the ctrl key to also place the new edges exactly inbetween two existing rows of egdes. If you want to split a portion of the mesh, just use the add edge tool. I mean when you have a reasonably evolved mesh, using the knife tool to cut across the whole mesh isn't practical at all, so it's not THAT useful.




I disagree, a knife tool is VERY useful. What if you want to make a cut at a certain angle, i.e. 45 degrees. Sure you can use the Split edge hotkey and tag some points and eye ball it, or use the inputs in the MCP. 45 degrees is too easy, what if you need a cut at 27 degree, what now? With a knife tool its possible. With split edge you can only draw edges parrallel/perpendicular to one mesh. Now what if you need to cut mutliple mesh at 45 degree angle. I'll be damn if i have to do it one by one. So the knife tool is very very useful,. its speeds up production. Time is money.

a knife tool is very useful for technicail modeling; house, cars,product design,etc. So are booleans, i think they improve on it in XSI 4.0.

You have to realize technicail modeling accounts about half of the modeling done, the other half would be organic/character modeling.

To be honest, im just happy that Softimage added the knife tool, and better booleans..that alone was enough for me(thats not to say i dont need anymore tools, a shell/solidify operator would HELP alot, and of course a interactive array drawing tools) :applause: :applause:

shingo
04-20-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Renderman_XSI
I disagree, a knife tool is VERY useful.

I used to think that a knife tool would be uncecessary until I saw the implementation in 4.0 and I have certainly changed my mind. As usual, Softiage have gone beyond just implementing the simplistic versions in other apps and taken it the extra mile to make it incerdible versatile and useful. I can't go into details about it, but hte options are quite estraordinaty.

Renderman_XSI
04-20-2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by shingo
I used to think that a knife tool would be uncecessary until I saw the implementation in 4.0 and I have certainly changed my mind. As usual, Softiage have gone beyond just implementing the simplistic versions in other apps and taken it the extra mile to make it incerdible versatile and useful. I can't go into details about it, but hte options are quite estraordinaty.

Knowing Softimage mentality, im sure they did. they usually stay 2 steps ahead of the game ;) . And if they ever add Fluid Effects, it would probably be 2 steps ahead of Maya's own(which probably hasn't been updated since its introduction)

Softimage is here, and they mean business. They are the only company that really realy listen to their users, that didnt take 3 versions( Alias ) :rolleyes:

SheepFactory
04-20-2004, 09:06 PM
renderman xsi can we leave maya bashing outside this thread please. There is no need to start a flamewar,

StephanD
04-20-2004, 09:09 PM
Judging from the actual polygon tools I have no doubts.

I can't even figure what/how they should be improved and I think that's what they want people(and competitors) to see.

MJV
04-20-2004, 09:15 PM
Did they raise the price of Advanced? Wasn't it $7000 before, or even $4000 for a competitive upgrade?

Nocturn
04-20-2004, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by shingo
I used to think that a knife tool would be uncecessary until I saw the implementation in 4.0 and I have certainly changed my mind. As usual, Softiage have gone beyond just implementing the simplistic versions in other apps and taken it the extra mile to make it incerdible versatile and useful. I can't go into details about it, but hte options are quite estraordinaty.

Damnit I'll go nuts if I have to wait a month before they post the full features list :cry: :cry:

I'm sure they went a lot further then just a knife tool, and that it will prove useful. For me the biggest improvement in modeling so far (from the little info available on SI site) is the vertices directly on subds. That will speed up modeling quite a bit. Points always disappear inside the mesh and you have to switch to xray or toggle subd off to grab those points. It's annoying when you're trying to fine tune the mesh and watch for smoothness. Now there's no need for that :)

Merci aux québécois! hehe

erikN
04-20-2004, 09:30 PM
$295 is a great student price but I think many of you have missed an important point..

are you even allowed to buy it?

the qualifications for being allowed buying it are not easy to live up to...

read this:

http://www.softimage.com/Products/Xsi/v4/educational/student-teacher_info.asp

down in the bottom left side..

substrauss
04-20-2004, 09:32 PM
I don't understand how XSI wouldn't run on a Mac. OSX is UNIX-based, granted it's BSD, but it would only require a few subtle changes to the linux code to port it to OSX. :shrug:

SheepFactory
04-20-2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by MJV
Did they raise the price of Advanced? Wasn't it $7000 before, or even $4000 for a competitive upgrade?


No advanced was $12000 before , the prices you mention were the trade up super promotion , which ended last month.

rock
04-20-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by erikN
$295 is a great student price but I think many of you have missed an important point..

are you even allowed to buy it?

the qualifications for being allowed buying it are not easy to live up to...

read this:

http://www.softimage.com/Products/Xsi/v4/educational/student-teacher_info.asp

down in the bottom left side..

I think you should go to a willing student in a nearby campus and pay him/her some money to go through the trouble to get his transcript and proof for you.

What is alarming still is that now, XSI student version price = 6 weeks of flipping hamburgers at McDonalds :)

For a lot of companies, there's little excuse of not getting both Maya and XSI.

The price also show that LW marketing is very good, since they don't release the product until almost a year after announcement to get price lock down. Things now changed for a lot of those buyers, potentially.

MJV
04-20-2004, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Sheep Factory
No advanced was $12000 before , the prices you mention were the trade up super promotion , which ended last month.

Oh, the trade up super promotion. Well well.

In other words (for the simpletons here) last month it was $4000, and this month it's $9000. Exuse me if I don't fall down with joy or trip over myself ordering software that's now more than twice as expensive as it was a month ago.

alphatron
04-20-2004, 09:58 PM
Sorry MJV, That was the price of Essentials, not advanced. Advanced was the same price as it is now. No reason to be upset now ;)

Renderman_XSI
04-20-2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by substrauss
I don't understand how XSI wouldn't run on a Mac. OSX is UNIX-based, granted it's BSD, but it would only require a few subtle changes to the linux code to port it to OSX. :shrug:

There was a thread on highend 3d site, where one of folk at SI explain why porting to Mac OSX wouldnt be fusible at the moment. what it boils down to is, money and support.

Mainwin is not on Mac, one factor, probably the biggest factor.

Money, if they port a Mac version are they going to get the investment back and some?? As it stand, IMHO Apple isnt serious about 3DCG, if they were they would offer DDC graphics card on top of the usually gaming cards.

Support, the Mac OSX GUI , and the way it operate is different from WinXP/Linux. That would also mean, they would have to buy Macs..thats more money. The Mac architecture is different. WinXP/Linux you can run on the same hardware.

Personally, i dont think a quick port for the Mac is going to do it justice, due to is architecture.

there will be a Mac port when pigs fly. I dont dislike the Mac/Apple. but a Mac port is not fusible until the top issues are addressed.

and oh yeah, XSI 4.0 rulez!! :drool: :wip: :beer:

quid
04-20-2004, 10:02 PM
one thing that I find pretty interesting is the intergration of mentalray 3.3 in xsi 4.0... mentalray just posted the specs on v3.3 and it has hardware rendering support for Nvidia FX hardware (beyond the existing opengl shadow acceleration in 3.5).
Does anyone know if this is enabled in 4.0??? Also there is an improved ability to handle sub surface scat. I wonder if that is implemented too. Any one know?

foxco
04-20-2004, 11:14 PM
WWWAAAA i want the full new features list :cry: where where is it

lol

/fox

Ps. the I am 4 Backgrounds are sweet Getem!!!!:buttrock:

MJV
04-20-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by alphatron
Sorry MJV, That was the price of Essentials, not advanced. Advanced was the same price as it is now. No reason to be upset now ;)

So wait a minute, just to be sure that I have got this straight now. The $4000 price was a limited "trade up super promotion" that is no longer available because it ended last month. That was for the Essentials package, which now that the Trade Up Super Promotion has ended, is back to selling for it's normal price of $4000. The Trade Up Super Promotion special price of just $4000 is no longer available, unfortunately, but you can still buy Essentials for the normal price of $4000, which after all is only zero cents more than the Trade Up Super Promotion deal.

Is that correct?

zaam
04-20-2004, 11:50 PM
Nope.

The $4K was for Advanced. Essentials was 2K.
Not a bad deal.

alphatron
04-20-2004, 11:52 PM
You've overcomplicated it. The super-promotion price became the retail price. that's it. Just like what happened with Maya.,

MJV
04-20-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by zaam
Nope.

The $4K was for Advanced. Essentials was 2K.
Not a bad deal.

Correct. So why are people now suddenly excited about the opportunity to buy foundation for $2000 when they could have purchased Essentials for the same price a month ago? Are people so easily marketed to that a little announcement show hype can make them forget that they're worse off now than they were before?

alphatron
04-20-2004, 11:59 PM
Because Essentials was never $2000. The promotional price of $2000 was only for tradeups from competing packages. Clear now?

MJV
04-21-2004, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by alphatron
Because Essentials was never $2000. The promotional price was $4000. Furthermore, the $4000 pricetag was only for tradeups from competing packages. Clear now?

No. Essentials was $2000, and Advanced was $4000. Providing proof of ownership of a competing package is nothing to most people who whould be first time XSI buyers. It's basically just a vehicle that all companies use for calling it a promotion and thus being able to withdraw it at will.

Since you don't have the basic facts straight maybe you should stick to those things you do have the facts for.

alphatron
04-21-2004, 12:29 AM
I made a mistype and corrected it. Lighten up.

MJV
04-21-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by alphatron
I made a mistype and corrected it. Lighten up.

Sorry, I'm not mad at you, I'm just kind of confused by the sudden excitement over the opportunity to buy XSI for prices double that of a month ago. I don't find it exciting at all...

alphatron
04-21-2004, 12:37 AM
It was made clear that the promotions were of limited time. Also, add the 4 free rendernodes that are thrown in, as well as Batchserve, and you can see why current XSI users are excited.

JDex
04-21-2004, 12:38 AM
Not to mention that the version called foundations ($2000) in many ways has more bang for buck than essentials does in pre 4.0 versions.

EdHarriss
04-21-2004, 12:39 AM
I think part of the reason people are excited is because the price did not go back up to $11,999 and there is no trade-in paperwork, promotion deadlines or anything like that to complicate things. For people who didn't buy it during the promotion this is good news. For people who did buy it during the promotion, they are happy that they got a deal which they would not have gotten if they had waited. (A reward for jumping on the promotion.) Regardless of what happened in the past, the lower price will probably make it easier for many people to buy it. Not to mention you get a bunch of free stuff with XSI that you didn't get before (like batchserve and satelite rendering.) And you get to keep your old app.

It all works out in the end.

SheepFactory
04-21-2004, 12:55 AM
MJV what part of tradeup you dont understand?

it means you have to turn in your old package be it maya , lightwave , etc + pay the $4000 to get essentials , it was what it was a "limited time promotion" nowhere did it say permanent.

this price drop is from the full list price , + a new version for $1999 which wasnt available before , so naturally people are excited.

RmachucaA
04-21-2004, 01:13 AM
whatever you pay for it, its worth everypenny and more....

MJV
04-21-2004, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by Sheep Factory
MJV what part of tradeup you dont understand?

it means you have to turn in your old package be it maya , lightwave , etc + pay the $4000 to get essentials , it was what it was a "limited time promotion" nowhere did it say permanent.

this price drop is from the full list price , + a new version for $1999 which wasnt available before , so naturally people are excited.

It was $2000 for essentials and $4000 for Advanced. Saying otherwise a whole bunch of times won't make that not so. :rolleyes: Getting hold of a program to trade in is nothing to anyone with the slightest clue.

Doesn't matter if it was a promotion or limited in time or contingent upon trading in another app. The fact remains that you can't get as good a deal today as you could before. So to somehow rationalize that the price has gone down when in fact it has gone up is just mind boggling.

I think the lesson here is that anyone who pays full retail for XSI instead of waiting for the next promotion is a complete idiot.

acidboy
04-21-2004, 01:50 AM
MJV: Your one of those people who love to argue aren't you :rolleyes:

alphatron
04-21-2004, 02:00 AM
The fact remains that you can't get as good a deal today as you could before.

What about 6 free mental ray rendering nodes? And how about Batchserve for free?

Getting hold of a program to trade in is nothing to anyone with the slightest clue.

What exactly is that supposed to mean? Perhaps if you substitute "slightest clue" with "lots disposable income", it may make more sense.

SheepFactory
04-21-2004, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by MJV
It was $2000 for essentials and $4000 for Advanced. Saying otherwise a whole bunch of times won't make that not so. :rolleyes: Getting hold of a program to trade in is nothing to anyone with the slightest clue.

Doesn't matter if it was a promotion or limited in time or contingent upon trading in another app. The fact remains that you can't get as good a deal today as you could before. So to somehow rationalize that the price has gone down when in fact it has gone up is just mind boggling.

I think the lesson here is that anyone who pays full retail for XSI instead of waiting for the next promotion is a complete idiot.


I dont have the slightest clue , can you enlighten me about how to get a hold of another program to trade in?


Well the fact remains that that was a super promotion back than and they were CLEAR that that was the best deal you were ever gonna get before v4 is launched. Now if you have another year to wait , fine wait for another promotion , some of us dont have that time or didnt have the "slightest clue " at the time they had the super promotion so this new pricing is indeed very attractive.

And just a warning , keep your name calling to a minimum please.

rock
04-21-2004, 02:20 AM
I see MJV point. But what I am excited is the student version price. And if you follow this axiom, you will be fine:

A friend of a student is still a student. :)

xynaria
04-21-2004, 04:08 AM
MJV..when car companies do a 'special promotion. it's usually cos they got a production run that is very end of the line they want to get rid of..and surprise surprise they don't offer the new version that replaces it at that promotional price because in the majority of cases it wouldn't make commercial sense to do so.
OK that is perhaps a slightly unfair analogy but SI do have to pay for R&D and by the looks of it they are actually doing some.
I've yet to try XSI but the new deals make me a lot more eager.....would I like them to be at the previous promo price..of course.....would I like them to pay me to start using it...yes of course.....but neither is understandably going to happen..wait as long as you want but comparatively XSI now seem to be offering an attractive deal that arguably the now most expensive entry level 3D software might do well to heed even if the chances of it doing so is negligable. :)

MJV
04-21-2004, 11:20 AM
Alright guys I give up! :cool: I'm glad that you all are happy that XSI now costs twice as much to obtain than it did before. Looking at my old email for the last year or so I see that Softimage has a never to be repeated deal of a lifetime offer on XSI every three months or so, so if looked at in that light one can speculate that the next never to be repeated offering isn't far away. In the meanwhile I can't imagine why anyone would order it when not on sale, but that's just me. I mean can you imagine if someone actaully ordered Advance today for $9000 when they could have gotten it for $4000 a month ago? On the other hand some people like to show loyalty to their new software provider and I can think of no better way than to pay full retail. I'm sure they appreciate it.

Aside from the pricing issue, V4 looks very cool and I'm sure that everyone who has been looking forward to this upgrade will be very happy.

Nocturn
04-21-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by MJV
Alright guys I give up! :cool:

pheeew...

Now where were we? Right, the full features list, post it Softimage!!!!

StephanD
04-21-2004, 11:50 AM
I mean can you imagine if someone actaully ordered Advance today for $9000 when they could have gotten it for $4000 a month ago?



Was it version 4.0 or 3.5 that was offered as rebate??


That's does make a difference.

dmonk
04-21-2004, 12:37 PM
I didn't have $4k last month for a commercial license, but I have $2k this month for a commercial version. Nuff said. Why doesn't everyone calm down this is good for everyone on all sides. More competition, lowere prices, more innovations. Everyone relax already.

MJV
04-21-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by dmonk
I didn't have $4k last month for a commercial license, but I have $2k this month for a commercial version. Nuff said. Why doesn't everyone calm down this is good for everyone on all sides. More competition, lowere prices, more innovations. Everyone relax already.

You didn't need $4K last month. You only needed 2K. And you would have gotten essentials, not the lesser version you'll get now. I'm glad you're ok with it though. :shrug:

SheepFactory
04-21-2004, 02:10 PM
he needed 2k + A PACKAGE TO TRADE IN which also costs money + A MAINTENANCE DEAL in order to upgrade to v4 when it comes out.


suddenly its not 2k anymore


let me break it down for you even better so you can stop beating the horse.


essentials super promo trade in price: $1999

lets say you trade in maya: $1999

maintenance for essentials super promo: $800 (it was $1600 for advanced)

wait that all came to $5000 all of a sudden for essentials and I lost the maya license.


in the light of this , the current $2000 to get xsi 4 IS cheaper.


:rolleyes:

StephanD
04-21-2004, 02:15 PM
Thanks for clearing things up sheep...Hopefully,we can save this thread's bandwith into a more constructive/objective conversation rather than tergiversate about something that should have been made clear(by reading up) a few months ago.

version
04-21-2004, 02:21 PM
How does upgrading a license to a higher work? Say I buy foundation, then want to go up to essentials, or advanced later on, is it a simple case of getting a new license from SI, and I'll be set, or does it involve buying a new package, with the difference being paid?

EdHarriss
04-21-2004, 02:59 PM
All you have to do is get a new license. They way it works now is that you don't need a new version. (The install includes both Ess and Adv versions.)

Ejecta
04-21-2004, 03:49 PM
Do I understand it right in that Foundation does not come with any satellite rendering nodes?

Also what is satellite rendering?

Mazer
04-21-2004, 04:25 PM
I supose the 2 rendering nodes in foundation must be 2 cpu's on the same machine? I can't use 2 single processor machines thogheter?

EdHarriss
04-21-2004, 04:46 PM
You are correct. Foundation does not come with any satellite rendering nodes.

I am pretty sure the 2 rendering nodes in foundation must be 2 cpu's on the same machine. Not 2 machines with 1 cpu each. (at least that is the way XSI 3.51 does it.)

Razorb
04-21-2004, 05:28 PM
We just upgraded all our licenses to 3.51 with maintenance, now we'll get 4.0. Now if i only knew what happened to my other post, where i told eveyone they should learn them all if they want to work, and blah blah blah.

Its affordable for colleges in budget crunch which means students are gonna be at full speed when they leave.

All the apps rock, you just need to learn how to use them, for their strenghs and weaknesses.

PEACE !!!!!!:beer:

MJV
04-21-2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Sheep Factory
he needed 2k + A PACKAGE TO TRADE IN which also costs money + A MAINTENANCE DEAL in order to upgrade to v4 when it comes out.


suddenly its not 2k anymore


let me break it down for you even better so you can stop beating the horse.


essentials super promo trade in price: $1999

lets say you trade in maya: $1999

maintenance for essentials super promo: $800 (it was $1600 for advanced)

wait that all came to $5000 all of a sudden for essentials and I lost the maya license.


in the light of this , the current $2000 to get xsi 4 IS cheaper.


:rolleyes:

First of all, why choose the most expensive software to purchase to get the competitive upgrade deal? Just because it works best for your argument? How about instead of buying Maya to get the crossgrade, how about buying LW on Ebay for $200 or $400? That might work a little better. Or if you're like a lot of people, you already have some software package sitting around that you don't use anymore. That's zero dollars instead of $2000. It's patently absurd of you to suggest that the people who took advantage of the offer all went out and purchase a brand new seat of Maya. At least try to make arguments that are even slightly marginally infinitesimally realistic.

Since you've screwed things so much with the upgrade offer. the rest of what you said is called into question. For example, did the super duper value deal really not include any limited time maintenance? Does the current deal include some maintenance that the super duper value deal did not? If no, then you can't claim that as a difference.

Even if it did require a maintenance contract costing $800, that still means the entire cost of Essentials would only come to $3200, and it would include one year of maintenance, which has it's own value. If you bought Advanced, the savings would be even way more dramatic.

All this is not to say that it's not a great upgrade. It just says the current deal is not a good one, and potential buyers should be advised that waiting for the next promotion could save then as much as $5000, if recent history is any indication.

JDex
04-21-2004, 06:13 PM
:rolleyes: okay... we get it. You're not gonna buy it. :thumbsup:

EdHarriss
04-21-2004, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by MJV
Or if you're like a lot of people, you already have some software package sitting around that you don't use anymore

I see your point. But you still had to pay for it in the first place. Just because I don't drive my car any more doesn't mean that it didn't cost me money when I bought it. If I trade in for another I can't turn around and sell it later to get any more money. It belongs to someone else now.

The idea of buying a cheap license on ebay was a good idea too. But they had a rule that you had to have bought it before a certain date. This kept people from running out and buing a license of something else just to get the promo.

gmask
04-21-2004, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Sheep Factory

wait that all came to $5000 all of a sudden for essentials and I lost the maya license.


You don't lose the license for the software you use to take advantage of the discount.

JDex
04-21-2004, 07:02 PM
You had to turn in the CD's, dongle and literature methinks.

EdHarriss
04-21-2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by gmask
You don't lose the license for the software you use to take advantage of the discount.

Technicaly if you had a license that did not require a dongle, there is nothing that they can do. Legaly, it would be wrong though.

bmwolf
04-21-2004, 07:20 PM
i have to join in here.

nobody said that they were going to go out and buy a new copy of software just to get the promo price of xsi, but you! lets just say that for some odd reason you have already purchased a liscense of maya, max, or lightwave and you now wanted to make the switch. just because you had the copy lying around does not change the fact that you spent the money on that app in the first place. Add that to the promo price of xsi plus maintenece, if you want to get the upgrade, and suddenly the price is not that much cheaper than what it is now if not at all. also i hardly believe that there are enough copies of lightwave on ebay for everybody to buy just to get the promo price.

What about all the new things that are added. lets say at the time of the promo you got a copy of xsi. you needed another 6 cpu mental ray nodes suddenly the price just jumped up another 5000.00. what if you also wanted to buy syflex...add another 2000. batchserve....?

nobody is saying that xsi is now the cheapest software in the world. what they are saying is that for them to add another version(foundation) and tons of new stuff to advanced and still manage to lower the price.. i don't know about you but i think that is great. also for a student...WOW! that is one hell of a price.

just remember that if you are always waiting for a cheaper price you will never get the software. they could run an even better promo later then will you still be singing about the super duper promo price you got. A sale is a sale. i can't figure out why you'd be so upset about something that occurs everyday outside the 3d world.

my 2 cents.
just remember what they say... opinions are like a.................

krisr
04-21-2004, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by bmwolf
you needed another 6 cpu mental ray nodes suddenly the price just jumped up another 5000.00. what if you also wanted to buy syflex...add another 2000. batchserve....?

XSI advanced comes with enough MR licenses to render on 8 CPUs. BatchServe and Syflex are also included :D

gmask
04-21-2004, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by JDex
You had to turn in the CD's, dongle and literature methinks.

With Maya you cannot easily transfer your license to another party plus as Ed stated your install may not even include a dongle. You would certainly need to prove that you own the software but even then simply sending in manuals and CD's doesn't actually prove ownership of a license.

shingo
04-21-2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by krisr
XSI advanced comes with enough MR licenses to render on 8 CPUs. BatchServe and Syflex are also included :D

So effectivley, THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL 8X$2000 FOR RENDER LICS + AT LAST ANOTHER $2000 for Syflex.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

krisr
04-21-2004, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by shingo
So effectivley, THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL 8X$2000 FOR RENDER LICS + AT LAST ANOTHER $2000 for Syflex.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.


Sure does!!!!!! :buttrock: :buttrock:

JDex
04-21-2004, 08:34 PM
Agreed on the dongle... but as to the transfer of liscense... it really isn't a transfer. SI isn't going to use it, most likely destroy it, so transfer is a non-issue.

MJV
04-21-2004, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by bmwolf
i have to join in here.

What about all the new things that are added. lets say at the time of the promo you got a copy of xsi. you needed another 6 cpu mental ray nodes suddenly the price just jumped up another 5000.00. what if you also wanted to buy syflex...add another 2000. batchserve....? .....

Sorry, you fail basic logic 101. If you had bought Advanced a month ago for $4000, along with a support contract, you would get all that for free.

gmask
04-21-2004, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by JDex
Agreed on the dongle... but as to the transfer of liscense... it really isn't a transfer. SI isn't going to use it, most likely destroy it, so transfer is a non-issue.

So do you think Alias is going to transfer your license to Avid who is then going to tell them to purge it from their system? In your own words "prove it". ;-)

I think this is semantical mis-understanding because they used the phrase "trade-in". In the same advert they also say "Protect your existing 3-D investment and upgrade to XSI today! "

So how can you protect you existing investment by throwing it away? They aren't saying "replace" your existing investment.

Anyway just to settle this I have put the question to their sales department and am awaiting a response.

EDIT> Nope you do not forfeit your existing trade-in licenses you only need to prove ownership

JDex
04-21-2004, 09:07 PM
Seems like a silly, pointless promotion then. :shrug: