Apple updates Shake and DVD pro, adds motion

[Lockstar]

Don't forget this.

http://www.apple.com/xsan/

[onlooker]

Apples Pro Digital Production suite is second to none. Did you see that Sh*t! :bounce:

[onlooker]

:D

[Beamtracer]

Motion and Xsan. These are major major releases from Apple.

The title of this thread makes it seem like Apple just released a "point" upgrade to Shake. It's much more than that.

[onlooker]

Motion requires 10GB drive space. That's some serious application there. The updated Apple Pro applications are more than meet that headline. There is a ton of cool stuff, and reading at Apples site right now. The new features of all their Pro Applications are awesome. I've already updated to FCP HD. It was a free update.

http://www.apple.com/software/pro/

[FredSpeaks]

I'd say a big chuck of that 10GB is for the Live Fonts. They take up a big chunk of drive space.

[beaker]

The 10 gig requirement is kinda missleading. Just like Soundtrack, Motion includes around 10 gigs of extra video footage and other stock material for building motion graphics. The actual app is under 100 meg without all the extras installed.

[alphatron]

Is there a definitive feature list strictly composed of additions to 3.5? The features list I see on the site is a mixture of existing features and new features.

[dmeyer]

FCP 4.5
DVD SP 3
Shake 3.5
Maya 6
XSI 4

It's like Christmas, only a lot more expensive... :eek:

[fr32c]

do you know that christmas IS indeed expensive ? but usually not for you :) (i am not discussing here of the existence of santa claus...

What i'm wondering is if there are good journalist reviews ? and more independant too... I saw no demo at apple, and i really wonder how motion is...

the required config is, as usual heavy... will i still be able to do 2D motion on a TiG4 1Ghz ???

fr

[Byla]

Fantastic stuff from Apple...

[Beamtracer]

FCP-HD + Xscan is a powerful combination. Expect to see it driving television newsrooms around the world.

[moovieboy]

Oh my God! Shake is now only $3,000??? And, wow... as a long time user of After Effects, Motion does look pretty interesting... and for only $300? That's damn hard to pass up.

Then on top of it, Apple and panasonic figured out how to do HD over FIREWIRE???

From my tiny-studio, freelancing point of view, my life just got better many times over...

Too bad I couldn't make it to NAB at the last moment. I'd love to play with these new toys.

Yippee!!!! :D

-Tom

[alphatron]

Avid was demoing HD over firewire at the DNA tour last year. This is how MC Adrenalin and Xpress Pro will be working with various formats of HD. However, it will be released in a few months, and knowing Avid, grossly overpriced.

[LustRazor]

buttrock!!!
:buttrock:
Beer!
:beer:
Applause
:applause:

[jeremybirn]

Originally posted by bouchardomac
Apple announced today new updates to a few of their pro applications including Shake 3.5 and DVD studio pro 3. They also added a new application called "Motion" to compete with After Effects. Check it out here: http://www.apple.com/motion/


That's $299? That puts Adobe in an interesting position marketing After Effects for the Macintosh for $1000. Of course Motion doesn't address the VFX functions of Adobe's $2000 Pro bundle, but this seems to hit the base package head-on, even supporting the same 3rd party filters - I wonder if Adobe will slash prices on the Pro bundle to compete, or pull off the Mac?

-jeremy

[beaker]

I doubt it. You dont just drop 50,000 users because someone else entered the ring to compete. Thats alot of money to just throw away. Adobe drops products that don't have enough users to justify it's development. I don't see that happening anytime soon with AE on the mac.

[Game-boi]

Originally posted by beaker
I doubt it. You dont just drop 50,000 users because someone else entered the ring to compete. Thats alot of money to just throw away. Adobe drops products that don't have enough users to justify it's development. I don't see that happening anytime soon with AE on the mac.

It looks like someone forgot why there isn't a version of Premiere on OS X.

[dmeyer]

Originally posted by Game-boi
It looks like someone forgot why there isn't a version of Premiere on OS X.

My guess on that one is that they were bleeding market share profusely to FCP and decided to cut their losses.

[beaker]

Originally posted by Game-boi
It looks like someone forgot why there isn't a version of Premiere on OS X.

No I didn't forget. Adobe only had a 10% userbase on mac when they dropped it. AE's userbase is over 50%. Very different situations. Anyways Premiere was a shitty, bug ridden product at the time, anyone who came out with a good video editor in that price range would have easily beat it in its condition. Vegas Video probably would have kicked its ass if FCP never came around.

AE while it does have some issue is still a very competitive product.

[Beamtracer]

Apple still doesn't have a product to compete with Adobe After Effects Production Bundle. The AE-pro version has features essential for broadcast users.

So Apple Motion will certainly compete heavily with AE-Standard, but not AE-pro. The next level up in Apple's products is Shake, which is a level higher again, and has a price tag up in the stratosphere.

[bry]

Originally posted by Game-boi
It looks like someone forgot why there isn't a version of Premiere on OS X.

Yes there is, Premiere 6.5 was made for OSX.

Bruno

[maX_Andrews]

Create professional motion graphics for film, video, TV and DVDs using Motion, a breakthrough offering self-propelled animation technology and real-time previewing for spontaneous and intuitive motion graphics creation.

I love this sentence :buttrock:

[kromekat]

All we need now are the updated PowerMac G5s at 2x 3Ghz!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[onlooker]

I'm not trying to take this thread off topic but (in what I think was the Apple quarterly conference call) about a week ago they mentioned that they were having trouble shipping the 90 nm G5 Xserves because IBM ran into a snag, and are not delivering any 2GHz 90NM processors to them right now. That says to me that they won't have 3GHz G5's because if IBM's yields on 90 NM 2GHz G5, are so low that Apple can't ship any Xserves. The Yields on 3GHz probably ( most likely) don't even exist yet. They (IBM) has to get them up to 2GHz before they can get them up to 3. What I'm saying is that It's going to be longer than Apple, and IBM expected before the 3GHz G5 is ready.

That is a guess, and I have no inside source, but that seems, and sounds like a reasonable assumption.

[kromekat]

I suspect you may be correct on that - there will have to be some kind of updates though, since it is almost a year since the G5 was released, and there have been no updates other than the 1.8 going dual. :/ - I am just twitcy about it as I have the money waiting for a new machine to take over from my 1Ghz G4! :)

anyway.. back to topic..

I wonder if there will be a Motion Pro to rival AE Pro also!?

[version]

Motion looks set to be the Apple Soundtrack for video, while introducing some nifty new slants on GUI interaction. Some key things seem to be missing if it's going to tackle AE, or even Combustion (please correct me if wrong), such as a decent keyer and tracker.

It looks good though, and for an editor using FCP and needing simple, amd quick compositing tools, it should do ok.

[Lockstar]

Version, is it not just the PRO version of AE that offers Motion tracking/ keying tools?.

Also, Motion supports AE plugins. I think BorisFX provide these tools in one of their plugin bundles.

(I could be wrong, I don't that know much about AE)

[version]

Originally posted by Lockstar
Version, is it not just the PRO version of AE that offers Motion tracking/ keying tools?.


Yeah, me too, I've only used AE for some basic. The standard version has keying and matte tools, but the Pro one has the tracker. The keying tools are qute sweet in AE though, and AE has quite a firm place in studios, running alongside Avid editors, and Discreet's software.

[Lockstar]

I think that this tentative (in respect to features) release is a case of Apple wanting to gauge the demand, rather than being bullish from the offset and offending Adobe. By not offering the features of Adobe AE PRO, they are leaving Adobe with at least one stream of guaranteed revenue.

If Motion is sucessfull, and gains a dedicated user base, one can expect that Apple will begin to implement more features from shake in later versions, eventually becoming a Light Shake. (I presume that Motion's technology contains a lot of Shake code?).

If Motion isn't particurlarly successful, then Apple can still make some revenue by offering an affordable, prosumer app, whilst not stepping on Adobe's toes.

[alphatron]

I don't really see any crossover between Motion and Shake. Shake is primarily a film/HD level compositor, while Motion is specifically designed for motion-graphics. The node-based workflow of Shake is particularly good for very efficient matting and manipulation of images, while the layer-based workflow of Motion and AE are better suited for motion graphics and layer animation. True node-based compositors like Shake, do not lend themselves well to motion graphics, and layer-based compositors are inherently inflexible and inefficient at the type of work Shake is geared to.

[Lockstar]

Thanks Alphatron, I was under the impression that Motion was a kind of feature cut Shake. (I haven't had time to grab the feature pdf yet).

So motion has been created to compliment Shake and Final Cut?

[MacRonin]

Originally posted by Lockstar
Thanks Alphatron, I was under the impression that Motion was a kind of feature cut Shake. (I haven't had time to grab the feature pdf yet).

So motion has been created to compliment Shake and Final Cut?

That is why it is grouped with all the other Apple Pro apps all over the Pro section of Apple's website...

It is another tool for the DCC toolbox, put it in the cubby marked "titling & motion graphics"...

And if anyone noticed, the elements on both the new top-level Shake webpage and the Motion webpages is from the same 'Tokyo' premise...

Shake looks like it is comping the girl into the scene, and Motion looks like the opening titles...

[beaker]

Originally posted by onlooker
I'm not trying to take this thread off topic but (in what I think was the Apple quarterly conference call) about a week ago they mentioned that they were having trouble shipping the 90 nm G5 Xserves because IBM ran into a snag, and are not delivering any 2GHz 90NM processors to them right now. That says to me that they won't have 3GHz G5's because if IBM's yields on 90 NM 2GHz G5, are so low that Apple can't ship any Xserves.
Apple is allready shipping the Xserves, just not the dual ones.

[beaker]

Originally posted by version
Motion looks set to be the Apple Soundtrack for video, while introducing some nifty new slants on GUI interaction. Some key things seem to be missing if it's going to tackle AE, or even Combustion (please correct me if wrong), such as a decent keyer and tracker.
Motion comes with Primate RT, so it does have a keyer. No tracker though. Thats really more of a compositing tool then a motion graphics one.

[Lockstar]

Thanks MacRonin, I am a Maya user, who's just starting to learn video editing with Final Cut.

Love the adaptive Dashboards and Gestures in Motion. Can't wait to use my Wacom with something other than Maya and PS.

Version,

http://www.apple.com/motion/advanced.html

It states that Motion includes Photron's PrimatteRT Keyer. Does this keyer match the quality of AE's?

[version]

Originally posted by beaker
Motion comes with Primate RT, so it does have a keyer. No tracker though. Thats really more of a compositing tool then a motion graphics one.

Yup, that's what I thought, so it'l really be competing at the lower end, next to AE standard.

[Lockstar]

http://www.apple.com/pr/photos/motion/motion.html

You can DL a 400dpi screengrab of the Motion interface. very nice, simple.

The integration with Final Cut also looks impressive.

One thing I can't find though, can Motion deal with Maya alpha channels?

Thanks for the info Beaker

[beaker]

One thing I can't find though, can Motion deal with Maya alpha channels?

Thats a pretty basic feature of any video editing/compositing/motion graphics tool in the last 10 years. It would be pretty stupid if it didn't.

[version]

Originally posted by beaker
Thats a pretty basic feature of any video editing/compositing/motion graphics tool in the last 10 years. It would be pretty stupid if it didn't.

Not a tracker, that alone would set it apart from a simple motion graphics package, to that of a compositor, which is what some are wondering, what is Motion? but since we now know, we can safely say it's a motion graphics app.

[version]

Originally posted by beaker
version: I was refering to Lockstar's question about it supporting Alpha's.

Sorry, my mistake.:beer:

[beaker]

version: I was refering to Lockstar's question about it supporting Alpha's.

I fixed my post to show what question Im answering.

[version]

Is it just me, or did my reply to you, beaker, appear above your post that i replied to?

lol

[Lockstar]

Thats a pretty basic feature of any video editing/compositing/motion graphics tool in the last 10 years. It would be pretty stupid if it didn't.

Sorry for my general ignorance on the subject, I use playdoh, film and cellotape. Harryhausen style, 3fps:)

[Lockstar]

Does anyone know if the behaviors will be fully scriptable, i.e through a terminal (Like Maya)? custom interfaces, behaviors, plugins etc. I get the impression that they are only adgusted through GUI, then saved as a file (much like Photoshop actions or levels etc).

Is AE fully scriptable?, (I thought Javascript was the script language).

[beaker]

FCP has what is called FXscripts and it can be controlled through applescript, so I wouldn't doubt some of that will be in Motion since it is mac only.

As for AE, there is a python module for it that you can script with, not sure about java.

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