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Throbberwocky
04-08-2004, 05:44 PM
Hi there,

there is a neat plugin for AE and Combustion named "ReelSmart Motion Blur" (http://www.revisionfx.com) and there is a maya shader for mental ray (http://www.alamaison.fr/3d/lm_2DMV/lm_2DMV.htm) which is able to render the motion vectors of a scene. This data then can be used with RSMB to create a quite accurate motion blur in post.

Now I was wondering if somebody got the motion vector shader for mental ray to work actually. What options have to be set in the render prefs of mental ray?

Any suggestions?

pierrejasmin
04-09-2004, 02:59 AM
In case you did not see, Luc has added a link for Maya users on his page

http://www.impresszio.hu/szabolcs/MentalRay/lm_2dmvMayaFiles.htm


Pierre
www.revisionfx.com

Jozvex
04-09-2004, 07:10 AM
Hmm, I got it to work but I ended up with nothing in the blue channel, which supposedly determines the intensity of the blur.

:shrug:

mental
04-09-2004, 07:40 AM
first read Guy's notes. most of it applies to both Maya and in post.

http://www.alamaison.fr/3d/lm_2DMV/lm_2DMV.htm

1) under the MotionBlur > Calculation Tab in MR's render globals

- set Motion Blur to 'Exact (Deformation)'
- set Shutter to '0' or a very small number such as '.000001'

this next step is only if you're getting renders that do not match the original footage

2a) MR render globals > Customization Tab

- check 'Export Custom Motion'
- set Motion Back Offset to '0'

2b) MR render globals > Translation Tab

- Export Verbosity > Progress Messages

Perform several test renders at times where the animation moves the fastest. Note the Max Displacement and set the normalization to the next highest value.

preferably you would use a 16bit file format for your output.

with ReelSmart's MotionBlur i believe that Version 3 is needed. you would use the the Vectors suite.

hope that helps
-mental :surprised

/edit: also if you are working with a scene that has multiple characters, each rendered in a seperate pass, you would use the highest common normalization value on all of your passes.

it may sound like common sense but it's just a reminder for folks under tight deadlines and zero sleep... don't ask how i figured that one out :rolleyes:

/edit2: if you're fortunate enought to have access to both ReelSmart's SmoothKit and RSMB. i found that under conditions of extreme blur it helps to render both a SmoothKit pass and a RSMB pass. SmoothKit handles details better while RSMB does very well with the edges. depending on the situation a single RSMB pass may seem too weak.

in post you would first apply SmoothKit (which blurs the details but barely deforms the edges) and then apply RSMB. adjust the amount of blur on both so as not to over do the effect.

pierrejasmin
04-09-2004, 09:37 PM
1) In the case of RSMB, there is no information in the blue channel, that is correct. The alpha of the MotionVectors image is used though to say you are on-off or an antialiased edge (used really as a coverage). Look at the doc in RSMB html manual.

2) SmoothKit will spill correctly outside of an object edges if the RGBA has an alpha that corresponds to the object. In that case the blue channel ("pixel speed") could in theory be edited by a compositor to modulate the direct result of the 3D render.

Pierre
www.revisionfx.com

Gremlin
04-10-2004, 12:25 AM
hmm, this sounds interesting...
i think i'll test it out sometime! :D

Skyros
06-11-2004, 04:23 PM
Anyone know if the lm_2DMV shader is available for Mental Ray in 3dsmax 6?

Thanks

Mike

mental
06-11-2004, 05:46 PM
@Skyros: have a look at this yoni-cohen's 4 posts in this thread. (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=104578&perpage=15&highlight=motion%20and%20blur%20and%20mental&pagenumber=67) i 'think' he describes a way of using the lm_2DMV shader within max in his last post.

hope that helps
-mental :surprised

Skyros
06-11-2004, 07:10 PM
Excellent! Thanks a lot

galactor
06-11-2004, 09:27 PM
Does anyone know if there is a solution/plugin available for Digital Fusion that can implement this blur info?

:: Galactor ::

Powell
06-11-2004, 09:56 PM
You can use the ReelSmart MotionBlur AE plugin with DigitalFusion.:thumbsup:

francescaluce
06-12-2004, 01:21 AM
take care guys.. that a shutter value of zero, as guyrab tut for xsi shown.. in maya will completely off the motion blur features.. I mean no motion blur is calculated.. set a min value instead.




ciao
francesca

Aneks
06-13-2004, 09:11 AM
Don't know about a fusion solution but we are using lm_2dmv and a ndo_idBlur for shake, free macro (Sorry reelsmart !! ) to great effect . Great Shader we are using in producition and are well stoked !!!

hs3d
06-14-2004, 03:42 PM
hi everyone,

MY FIRST POST HERE!
very exited

is anyone working with im2dmv with maya 6.
we manage to use it great with XSI, but with maya we dont get the MAX_DISP information.
any tips?

thnx,

Haim

Aneks
06-15-2004, 12:45 AM
works fine with v6 of maya using smoothkit settings. have't tried RSMB vectors.

Make sure to set Export Verbosity to Progress Messages if you want to see max displace. It will show in the last line of the message in the output window :

ie

PHEN 0.2 info : [lm_2DMV] >> Max Displace -> 11 pixels

hs3d
06-15-2004, 01:29 PM
thnx,
but I still dont get the max displace data.
I do get the motion colors in the render.
can anyone attach a dum sphere scene, with the correct parameters set, so I can see what i'm missing?


Haim

mental
06-15-2004, 03:39 PM
did you read the usage notes for maya i posted earlier in this thread?

Aneks
06-16-2004, 04:54 AM
check your shutter settings too ! like in mentals' notes they wor best if they are waaaay low

anyway here is a file I was slack the max disp should be about 20ish

hs3d
06-16-2004, 09:05 AM
thnx all 4 help.
It's working now!!

I'm too emberssed to tell what I did wrong ....

Haim

pierrejasmin
06-22-2004, 05:51 AM
Does anyone know if there is a solution/plugin available for Digital Fusion that can implement this blur info?

:: Galactor ::
SmoothKit (the AE version) will work in DF -- be careful to make sure the orientation is OK and make sure you work at 16 bpc. I seem to remember the angle 0 is not the same in DF and Combustion. Unfortunately the MotionBlur from vectors is not yet supported in ReelSmart Motion Blur for DF.

Pierre
www.revisionfx.com

vanwyklr
06-22-2004, 05:41 PM
can anyone port this to osx for use with maya and shake?

pierrejasmin
06-23-2004, 01:56 AM
can anyone port this to osx for use with maya and shake?
It's should be available for Shake hopefully real real soon.
Pierre
www.revisionfx.com

DiGiman
06-23-2004, 09:43 PM
I'm trying to install this for Maya 6, but it gives me this error when maya starts.


Warning: (Mayatomr.Nodes) : Node "lm_2DMV" has no ID, assigning a temporary ID. Scene should be saved as .ma (ASCII).
Warning: (Mayatomr.Nodes) : Node "lm_2DMV" not created.


I've installed it the same as any other shader.

Aneks
06-24-2004, 05:19 AM
I beleive that this is because you are using the Maya v.5 ver of the mi include file and the .dll. There is a new recompiled version for Maya 6 along with dirtmap and a bunch of other mr shaders. I cant remeber where I put the link, but jozvex posted a link to them a while back ... go search the threads

Aneks
06-24-2004, 07:28 AM
correction .....


here it is

http://www.impresszio.hu/szabolcs/MentalRay/Maya6Includes.htm

DiGiman
06-24-2004, 04:29 PM
thank you. That fixed the problem, I don't know how I missed that.
:thumbsup:

mikkermik
07-08-2004, 10:57 PM
Hi all,
Not sure if I'm missing something, but I'm having some problems blurring overlapping geometry motion.
I have a character swinging his arms, and one arm passes in front of his body.
I've output the beauty and the vector shader pass and everything is aligned properly.
When I apply RSMB Vector (in AfterEffects) the interior of the overlapping arm blurs, but the edges remain crisp.
Is there a way to blur the edges of the arm as well as the interior?
I've attached an image of the problem.
Thanks,

M

zuao
08-15-2004, 10:10 PM
Hi guys!

I still got some problems with the lm_2DMV Shader in Maya (5+6). Perhaps I've overseen something.

I know the usage and functionality of the Shader very well, because I dealed with it in some project this year very intensely ... in Softimage|XSI. I also reconstructed the Shader as Shadingtree. The ndo_IDirBlur Macro on Highend is some more fruit of my moblur enquiries at that time. That's for me ... some self-adulation ... ah, that feels good :)

Now, my problems..

1) What about this "Motion Blur By" Setting in MR's MotionBlur Options? In XSI there is no Parameter of this kind, but values for "Shutter Open" and "Shutter Close". I should think, that Maya's "Motion Blur By" corresponds to "Shutter Close"? In this case you would have to set this one to "0" too, which besides is not possible and values below "1" didn't had any influence on the rendered image at all. But it has influence on the render output if you raise it to values above "1". What about that?

2) Then at least for me, the value for "Normalize size" in the lm_2DMV shader options just has no influence on the rendering at all. But it should as we know.

I would appreciate some ideas from you.

Thank you and so long,
Nando.

zuao
08-15-2004, 10:36 PM
Hi,

I played some more with the "Motion Blur By" Setting and I have to correct myself. Values less than "1" are scaling the speed value in the rendered output down and up for ones above "1". That's the behavior I would expect from the "Normalize size" Setting, which still is doing nothing.

Regards,
Nando.

pierrejasmin
08-24-2004, 05:10 AM
Hi all,

When I apply RSMB Vector (in AfterEffects) the interior of the overlapping arm blurs, but the edges remain crisp.
Is there a way to blur the edges of the arm as well as the interior?
I've attached an image of the problem.
Thanks,

M
RSMB needs a coverage mask in the Alpha channel (see the hmtl about motion vectors in the RSMB doc). If you don't have a coverage area then RSMB will be incorrect at the edges.

Pierre
jasmin@revisionfx.com

Feel Free to send me a frame and it's motion vectors

pierrejasmin
08-24-2004, 05:20 AM
Hi,

I played some more with the "Motion Blur By" Setting and I have to correct myself. Values less than "1" are scaling the speed value in the rendered output down and up for ones above "1". That's the behavior I would expect from the "Normalize size" Setting, which still is doing nothing.

Regards,
Nando.
In case, are you exporting 16 bits per channel files? Values over 128 might make no sense in 8 bits per channel with RSMB. What is called Normalise in the shader is to be used as Max Displace in RSMB.

Pierre
jasmin@revisionfx.com

Levitateme
08-31-2004, 09:48 PM
I am new to using MR shaders, but could someone please help me on these questions?

1. under create mental ray nodes, i found the lm_2DMV material i put that in my hypershade, now do i just apply that to my scene objects? or does it need connected to another shader somewere?

2. i have all my maya mental ray render globals set from reading this forum, when i render does maya place this data somewere specific? or do i just use the images it renders as the mb data?

zuao
08-31-2004, 10:20 PM
In case, are you exporting 16 bits per channel files? Values over 128 might make no sense in 8 bits per channel with RSMB. What is called Normalise in the shader is to be used as Max Displace in RSMB.
Thank you for your response, Pierre.
Yeah ... using 16 bits and I'm aware of what you've explained. I used the whole feature already in xsi for some time.

But for me the "Normalize" value in the Shader just does nothing. You could set it to any value that's provided there. It has no impact on the rendering result, but it should - independent from bit depth. Perhaps the AETemplate for the Shader is not working properly? I'm wondering why nobody replies on that issue, neither positiv nor negativ.

sofar, next days I should have some time to take a closer look on that "nothing-is- happening-thing"

ciao,
nando.

zuao
08-31-2004, 10:34 PM
1. under create mental ray nodes, i found the lm_2DMV material i put that in my hypershade, now do i just apply that to my scene objects? or does it need connected to another shader somewere?

You could simply connect the lm_2DMV "OutValue" to the "mi Material Shader" Attr. of some ShadingGroup. (I would suggest you leave some Maya Material Node connected to the ShadingGroup otherwise you will get some problems to Assign the Shader)


2. i have all my maya mental ray render globals set from reading this forum, when i render does maya place this data somewere specific? or do i just use the images it renders as the mb data?
No, there is no "extra" data. Your rendered images are color coded motion vectors that go as input for the RevisionFX RSMB or Smoothkit Plugin.
If you've set the Render Globals like suggested at the very beginning of this thread, objects that got the Shader assigned should appear in shifting psychedelic colors as they move.

ciao,
nando.

Levitateme
08-31-2004, 10:58 PM
Thanks very much zuao, that is my problem then i didnt connect the node to anything. going to try that now. thanks again.

Levitateme
09-01-2004, 09:23 AM
Here is a test i get outta mental ray. is this look right? cause it looks nothing like the creator of this shader, like his snake has many many colors, all my test are basicly flat looking...

http://www.chemicaldust.com/zauo.jpg

Levitateme
09-01-2004, 11:13 AM
Well i am still getting the same results i dont konw why i cant get this shader to work. they should have depth to them or something cause they still dont look right.

pierrejasmin
09-04-2004, 06:43 AM
Here is a test i get outta mental ray. is this look right? cause it looks nothing like the creator of this shader, like his snake has many many colors, all my test are basicly flat looking...
There is two shaders in one
You are using ReelSmart Motion Blur mapping here (X and Y motion where 0 in 16 bpc is at 32767). The Max Displace is to ensure you fit and have the maximum subpixel resolution when not working in float. If you have Shake, AE or Combustion or DF (only as AE plugin now) you can download RSMB demo from our website

The image you refer to shows the Directional Blur mapping we use in SmoothKit where X and Y are angles and Blue is Speed.

Pierre
RE:Vision Effects

sunit
11-02-2004, 04:48 PM
Anybody using this motion vector shader:

http://www.alamaison.fr/3d/lm_2DMV/lm_2DMV.htm

with displacement in MR (maya)? I have yet to be able to get it to work. It seems fine without displacement attached to the shadergroup...

-sunit

thobry
11-04-2004, 07:47 PM
I am using Maya6/Menta Ray3.3.1 and After Effects 6 with the latest RSMB plugin demo version.

I downloaded the cube maya scene file (from and earlier reply) and it was a big help in confirming that my settings matched those in the example file.

SETUP: I have a stick (poly cylinder 1x20 units long) spining on Z axis. I have applied this lm_2DMV shader and set it to SmoothKit at 16 normalize.
My Max displace is: PHEN 0.2 info : [lm_2DMV] >> Max Displace -> 5 pixels
camera shutter is 144 (default)
render global motion blur is ON and set to exact. shutter is .001. motion blur by 1.0
export custom motion is checked and back offset is 0.5.

CURRENT ISSUE:
I render the 60 frames of it rotating and load that into AE6.
The render does not have any alpha - I am rendering RGBA 4x8 byte (TIFF images).
I choose to ignore alpha. I load the Color pass render of the stick and set up the RSMB 3.0 to use the "rainbow" render for the vector source.

It seems that the motion blur vector map that is being applied to the cylinder is not correct. one end of the stick blurs beautifuly white the opposite end does not blur at all.

I would expect that BOTH ends should blur the same and the center should have almost no blur.

Anyone have some ideas?

See images:

http://sprue3d.com/maya_problems/stick_example.jpg

zuao
11-06-2004, 11:46 AM
@thobry (member.php?u=23047)

Could one use RSMB 3.0 with a Smoothkit Motion Src?
I'd thought you'll have to render RSMB Motion Data (switch in lm_2dmv Shader) to use RSMB 3.0.
The Smoothkit Package is another one from Revision, where the Directional Blur Plugin is included, that you would use with the Smoothkit Motion Vectors.

thobry
11-09-2004, 01:03 AM
I have been trying anything just to get this technique to work. So far the RSMB vectors will render very flat... yellow looking. I then crank the blur by frame to 4 and i get a color ramp that looks like what i need. I send that to AE in the RSMB plug in and it sort of works but has a smeared directional blur look rather than more blur on the ends of the stick and less at the center. oh well.

i will keep trying stuff until i get a good result... or someone has some tips for me to try.

thanks

zuao
11-09-2004, 08:18 AM
some hints:

1) the camera shutter value isn't taken into calculation at all

from the docs:
The mental ray for Maya renderer draws its shutter setting from here in the Render Globals Settings window, unlike the Maya renderer (for which the shutter setting is on the camera).
2) the back offset value should be set to '0' as stated here:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1261672&postcount=4

3) increasing the "motion blur by" value won't make the motion blur neither better nor realistic. it's the wrong way, if you want to scale the values in the rendering. therefore one should use the "normalize" value in the shader dialog, but that one isn't working properly ... at least for me as i posted weeks ago.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1545308&postcount=33
i used the shader in xsi before and there the normalizing is fine, but not so for maya.

Ultrasonic
11-24-2004, 02:29 PM
Hi Guys...

...this us one of my first postings here and I hope I was not too blind to see a solution to my problem...

Think the picture below is self-explaining...

Maya|MR render is 100% ok, but the RSMB Plugin doesn't calcute an exact MoBlur...it seems like it doesn't even take the MotionVectors into account, because all of my tests with other MV's resulted in similars blurs...

The lower half of the MV-Part is Split to green and red in Photoshop for you to see the channels...so don't get confused...

BTW: I thought lm_2dmv sets X-Axis to Red and Y-Axis to Green...IMHO the X-Axis is the Horizontal one, which in my case is the Green Channel...*confused*

http://www.htwm.de/omarkows/xChange/lm_2dmv_prob.gif

coocoo
11-25-2004, 12:50 AM
I have a same question as sunit had earlier about how to get the motion vector from Displacement animations...
I read that it could be done by Displacement shader but I haven't succeeded yet.
Does anybody know?

fredriks
12-09-2004, 12:58 PM
I had the same problem when there were no alpha in the picture... With an alphachannel the motionblur were correct.


/Fredrik

Ultrasonic
12-09-2004, 05:26 PM
Hey Fredrik...

...thanks a lot for your reply...now it works! :thumbsup: With alpha channel...;)

C U
Oliver

pierrejasmin
12-10-2004, 08:17 AM
Hey Fredrik...

...thanks a lot for your reply...now it works! :thumbsup: With alpha channel...;)

C U
Oliver

For the others that still worry or struggle:

http://www.revisionfx.com/generalfaqsMVFormat.htm#alpha

Pierre
www.revisionfx.com

meshman
01-03-2005, 12:34 PM
is there a comnpiled version for osx and maya 6 for this shader somewhere

pierrejasmin
01-08-2005, 02:48 AM
Only Windows and Linux right now. Maybe one day sooner then later :)

Pierre
www.revisionfx.com

meshman
01-10-2005, 08:45 AM
lets hope sooner then. Mentalray is painfully slow when it comes to motionblur......

zuao
03-31-2005, 08:04 AM
Regarding my prior posts, normalizing seems to be fine now - see the "notes" on the La Maison site:

http://www.alamaison.fr/3d/lm_2DMV/lm_2DMV_ref.htm

ciao,
nando.

meshman
04-01-2005, 10:04 AM
has anyone got it to work with maya 6.5 on osx?

meshman
05-31-2005, 06:34 PM
I dont get a alpha when i render with the motion vector shader. Is that supposed to be that way? im using maya 6.5 on a mac.

When i comp it in shake i have to make a mattnode and take the alpha from the oriional image and use that on the motion vector rendered image...

How do you guys post it in shake?

And do you get a alpha out from the rendered image?

zuao
06-01-2005, 09:17 AM
And do you get a alpha out from the rendered image?

setAttr "mentalrayGlobals.passAlphaThrough" 1;

(you would find this under Custom Entities)

ciao,
nando.

tom_c
06-01-2005, 02:06 PM
can anyone port this to osx for use with maya and shake?

Allready done, see the link on the LaMaison page... or my sig...

:-)
Tom

solun
07-22-2005, 08:18 PM
I can only get the lm2DMV_v2.mi file, Where can i get the lm2DMV_v2.dll file now?






thx

lazzhar
07-22-2005, 11:09 PM
It's there in the page:

http://www.alamaison.fr/3d/lm_2DMV/lm_2DMV.v2.0p.zip

solun
07-23-2005, 06:54 AM
It's there in the page:

http://www.alamaison.fr/3d/lm_2DMV/lm_2DMV.v2.0p.zip




got it ,

thx lazzhar!

azshall
07-24-2005, 02:37 AM
setAttr "mentalrayGlobals.passAlphaThrough" 1;

(you would find this under Custom Entities)

ciao,
nando.

Would be nice to just re-code the AEtemplate for this shader to add an option like "Generate Alpha" .. a checkbox.. if on .. will turn on the passThroughAlpha attr .. and off .. it will not ..

i could probably code it up if anyone were interested.

just a thought.

az

lazzhar
07-24-2005, 09:25 AM
Would be nice to just re-code the AEtemplate for this shader to add an option like "Generate Alpha" .. a checkbox.. if on .. will turn on the passThroughAlpha attr .. and off .. it will not ..

i could probably code it up if anyone were interested.

just a thought.

az

That would be nice.

I have a question for you azshall. What's your sampling settings you use for the Motion Vector pass? I really find it very slow to render this pass in 5/6 minutes(in my case) while the Maya Software could render Motion Vectors very quicky.

techmage
07-24-2005, 03:30 PM
I played around with the shader and the AE plugin a little, still havent used it on a real project yet, so I only know the very basics of the workflow. But after reading this thread and about the alpha channel I've got a bit confused. Any moving object is supposed to have the vectors rendered out and then masked to only overlay that object, right? But what if you have a scene where there are characters walking around and the camera is also moving in an interior enviroment? Are you supposed to render vectors for the character and the character itself in a seperate pass and then comp it into the background which would also need it's own vector pass?

azshall
07-24-2005, 06:25 PM
I played around with the shader and the AE plugin a little, still havent used it on a real project yet, so I only know the very basics of the workflow. But after reading this thread and about the alpha channel I've got a bit confused. Any moving object is supposed to have the vectors rendered out and then masked to only overlay that object, right? But what if you have a scene where there are characters walking around and the camera is also moving in an interior enviroment? Are you supposed to render vectors for the character and the character itself in a seperate pass and then comp it into the background which would also need it's own vector pass?

Good question. I've never encountered that in a shot yet.... You should do a simple test of this.

az

azshall
07-24-2005, 06:28 PM
That would be nice.

I have a question for you azshall. What's your sampling settings you use for the Motion Vector pass? I really find it very slow to render this pass in 5/6 minutes(in my case) while the Maya Software could render Motion Vectors very quicky.

Generally... for Motion Vectors... this is how I do it..

hide or delete ALL lights...
In the render globals, turn off raytracing, turn off all FG/GI, set shadows to NONE... you can essentially turn EVERYTHING off.. this shader requires none of that. So why leave it on for the renderer to calculate. This will help decrease render time.. As for sampling, play with it... Start out at -2,0 ... render/apply it... how does it look? then try -1,0/0,0 .. etc.. until you get what you want.. remember.. this is a POST APPLICATION PASS ... its not a beauty, you will not actually see the render... so.. you could maybe get away with rendering it at -2,0 and then applying a 1pixel fast blur to the actual map to soften the hardness out of it.. and it should work fine ...

while the Maya Software could render Motion Vectors very quicky.

Well.. Maya Software doesn't render a vector map (that I know) that you can use in comp? You have to apply them with the blur2d.exe that comes with Maya (or am I wrong?). As well... You'd then be limited to the... heh, ...Maya Software renderer.. Unfortunately.

Hope that helps..

az

lazzhar
07-24-2005, 07:24 PM
Generally... for Motion Vectors... this is how I do it..

hide or delete ALL lights...
In the render globals, turn off raytracing, turn off all FG/GI, set shadows to NONE... you can essentially turn EVERYTHING off.. this shader requires none of that. So why leave it on for the renderer to calculate. This will help decrease render time.. As for sampling, play with it... Start out at -2,0 ... render/apply it... how does it look? then try -1,0/0,0 .. etc.. until you get what you want.. remember.. this is a POST APPLICATION PASS ... its not a beauty, you will not actually see the render... so.. you could maybe get away with rendering it at -2,0 and then applying a 1pixel fast blur to the actual map to soften the hardness out of it.. and it should work fine ...


I didnt try but I was afraid that using a very low sampling could give a wrong motion informations. Let's try and see.


Well.. Maya Software doesn't render a vector map (that I know) that you can use in comp? You have to apply them with the blur2d.exe that comes with Maya (or am I wrong?). As well... You'd then be limited to the... heh, ...Maya Software renderer.. Unfortunately.

Hope that helps..

az

We just render the color pass with Mental Ray then motionblur it using the blur2d.exe utility based on the MV rendered by Maya Software. Works fine, and it's a faster solution than this shader..well at least in my case.

anopheles
07-24-2005, 07:49 PM
I just stumbled over this nice shader and because I'm currently working with DF this is
even greater, my image:

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/1525/asasas9jz.jpg

Is it normal that It looks like this? My arm is the only part which is moving so it looks quiet good.

pierrejasmin
07-29-2005, 11:02 PM
That looks fine, zero motion wil be encoded as 32767, 32767
Make sure you render that with alpha so RSMB knows to differentiate between "valid" pixels and crap...

Pierre
www.revisionfx.com

toddgill
07-30-2005, 09:48 PM
We just render the color pass with Mental Ray then motionblur it using the blur2d.exe utility based on the MV rendered by Maya Software. Works fine, and it's a faster solution than this shader..well at least in my case.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what i've been trying to do...In the back of my mind I know I did this a long time ago but i don't seem to see the flags to specify both the image where the vectors reside AND the image to be affected. Can you elaborate on how you did this please?

thx

caretz
08-31-2005, 11:39 AM
anyone using "nd_idblur" seems someone took it off from highend2d free macro for shake
would love to try it out
anyone know or have it msg me plz

ciaoo all

zuao
08-31-2005, 12:01 PM
anyone using "nd_idblur" seems someone took it off from highend2d free macro for shake
would love to try it out
anyone know or have it msg me plz

ciaoo all

hi,

it's called "ndo_IDirBlur" by the way and no, it's there ...
ndo_IDirBlur (http://www.highend2d.com/shake/downloads/macros/filters_effects/2965.html)

have fun,
nando.

cryolab
08-31-2005, 12:01 PM
i can send u the ndo_blur just post your email

caretz
08-31-2005, 12:29 PM
wooowwwaaa

that was fast tnx a lot nando
nevermind cryolab tnx anyway

faaaaasst...wooohhhsss

caretz
08-31-2005, 12:33 PM
I did a quick test and nando is soo coo and free
tnx
grazie ragazzo!
ciaoo

-c

anopheles
11-19-2005, 05:18 PM
I just tried the lm 2DMV in Maya 7

and this is what I get:

http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/9236/zx4ei.jpg

There is def. Motion in The Scene!


What about writing aout Motion Vectors in Maya without rerendering the whole scene!

And what about the "nd_idblur" solution. Is it compatible with Fusion 5?

MasterZap
11-19-2005, 05:41 PM
lets hope sooner then. Mentalray is painfully slow when it comes to motionblur......

Here's a couple of mental ray motion blur tips:

1. The "time contrast" value is actually not a contrast at all... it's really the inverse of the number of temporal samples. So 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 means "five time samples per spatial sample". You can often get away with less, which means a higher value, 0.5 0.5 0.5 0.5 would mean two time samples, 0.33 0.33 0.33 0.33 would mean three.

2. There is a special mode when you set time contrast to 0 0 0 0 which shares samples between spatial and temporal - try it out.

3. If you havn't used the new rasteirizer, formerly known as "rapid scanline motion blur", do so now.

4. Use motion vector export and post process to stuff like RSMB, as noted in this thread. If your app does not allow exporting vectors with shutter = 0.0, set shutter to 0.0001 and make sure to set your time contrast to 1 1 1 1 ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

5. Many apps, for example 3ds max, already include a 2d post blur. In max, you have to turn on mental ray blur, check the "blur all objects", turn mental ray blur off again, set all objects to "image" motion blur, and add the "motion blur" render effect. For other apps - consult your docs.

/Z

pierrejasmin
11-27-2005, 03:27 AM
azshall et al

Actually we've been struggling a bit with the alpha thing and other settings with Maya users support wise, any help would help us have people get better results. And also it does not help that internally we only know Max and XSI.

I get from Maya users sometimes sample frames where the alpha (MV Coverage) needs to be eroded by one pixel for some reasons. Never quite sure if it's sampling values (it seems better right now to have a bit of anti-aliasing) or if It might have to do with us saying that "The values of shutter and shutter delay of .5 (in Maya) gives you a centered frame without blur." Is this a lie? I think so. First we would like this to be from 0 to 1 (from current frame view before motion to full frame interval motion transform). Also 0.5, 0.5 gives half lenght vectors. And I am under the impression that setting 0.5, 0.5 offsets the actual vertex location from which Motion is rendered? According to MR doc yes.


In XSI we have to Enable Motion Blur but set it Shutter Open and Close to 0.0, 0.0 so it does not Motion Blur the Output Shader.

Enable corresponds to Mental Ray -motion argument

-motion on|off3.2

"Normally the -shutter option controls whether motion blurring is enabled, and turns it on if there is a nonzero shutter interval. The -motion option overrides this and turns motion blurring on or off explicitly. For example, it is useful to define a zero shutter interval and then (order is important) turn motion blurring on, so that shaders get a correct file:///C:/Softimage/XSI_5.0/Doc/mental_ray/manual/images/327.png vector. If motion blurring is turned off, this vector is not computed. " MR manual


Someone else on this thread mentioned time contrast. I have no idea if there is a UI for that in Maya and based on description that follows if we set the Shutter to have zero of interval by setting start and stop to the same value, I for now assumed it made no difference, but could be wrong. That said if there is a UI for that in Maya somehow, to make sure it has no effect, one would need to change that value (either 0 0 0 0 or 1 1 1 1 (unclear) and render the 2DMV pass again and see if they get the exact same result.

(From http://www.lamrug.org/resources/motiontips.html although it's about controlling MR 3D motion blur: The time contrast option controls the number of temporal samples taken per spatial sample location. As depicted, it is approximately the inverse of the number of temporal samples. In a 0-1 interval, the time period between samples is the time contrast value; so, above left, the samples are 0.5 apart. Generally, it represents the fraction of time covered while the shutter is open. Note that all the time contrast arguments should be specified as equal, because in mental ray 3.x, there is no variation according to color.)


From MR manual
-time_contrast r g b [a]

The time contrast (file:///C:/Softimage/XSI_5.0/Doc/mental_ray/manual/node76.html#INDEX185) controls temporal oversampling (file:///C:/Softimage/XSI_5.0/Doc/mental_ray/manual/node83.html#INDEX284) for motion blur (file:///C:/Softimage/XSI_5.0/Doc/mental_ray/manual/node32.html#INDEX60)red scenes. It works similar to the spatial contrast parameter explained above but applies to motion blur only; the number of temporal samples is approximately proportional to the inverse of the time contrast value. The default is 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2. For fast motion blur (file:///C:/Softimage/XSI_5.0/Doc/mental_ray/manual/node32.html#INDEX60), the time contrast must be set to 0 0 0 ...
----



Pierre
pierre@revisionfx.com

pierrejasmin
11-27-2005, 03:59 AM
I see azshall (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=58646) vbmenu_register("postmenu_2243447", true); explains the time contrast setting here:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2243447&postcount=10

I imagine it could even be smaller 0.0001 ?

Also Seth, you say in that thread that you use 16 as Max Displace, Normalize value -- this might not be enough when you have large motion. Right now that means we clamp motion of more then 16 pixels if you do that, on large image size is not that much. (eg 1024/32767 is still approx 1/32 sub-pixel precision, not really significant with MB). Nonetheless the clamping will be gone in the next version when you use float images and your app supports floating point processing so people can have low Scaling value which makes it easier to visualize then a flatter olive image.


Pierre
www.revisionfx.com (http://www.revisionfx.com)

lazzhar
11-27-2005, 08:19 PM
Here's a couple of mental ray motion blur tips:

..

3. If you havn't used the new rasteirizer, formerly known as "rapid scanline motion blur", do so now.

...

/Z

Hi Zap, thanks for the tips.
The problem with rapid motion blur is that you cannot use raytracing coz it turns too slow , that's why they say to avoid it in the MR Doc coming within Maya. And using Shadow Maps is really a pain in MR. Any tips to speed up the motion blur while enabling the raytracer?

pierrejasmin
11-27-2005, 10:22 PM
That would be nice.

I have a question for you azshall. What's your sampling settings you use for the Motion Vector pass? I really find it very slow to render this pass in 5/6 minutes(in my case) while the Maya Software could render Motion Vectors very quicky.

This is not normal. I intuit that there must be a combination of all the flags that end up essentially Motion Blurring that pass (even if on a very small interval). I am going to spend a bit of time in the coming week playing with all these flags (shutter values, samples, time displace) and see what happens.

Pierre

MasterZap
11-28-2005, 06:54 AM
Hi Zap, thanks for the tips.
The problem with rapid motion blur is that you cannot use raytracing coz it turns too slow , that's why they say to avoid it in the MR Doc coming within Maya. And using Shadow Maps is really a pain in MR. Any tips to speed up the motion blur while enabling the raytracer?

But that's just not true.

Raytracing works just fine with the rasterizer.

Yes, there are is a potential that in certain cases, "unnecessary" raytracing will indeed happen, due to the way the rasterizer works... i.e. it may end up performing, say, ray traced reflections for an object that eventually ends up occluded by another object. This case, however, is rare, but *could* happen. Example: You have a reflective floor. If the rasterizer decides to rasterize the floor in one pass, it will rasterize the entire floor, and raytrace every pixel of it... then it takes the next object, which may be, for example, a huge sofa that covers 90% of the floor. And voila, you "wasted" the time raytracing the reflections under the sofa.

But what is more likely to happen is that the sofa gets chosen to be done first, and when this happens, the rasterizer will know the floor behind it is already occluded, and won't render it at all.

So the "rasterizer won't work with raytracing" is largely a myth. The phrasing in the manual may need to be altered not to give that impression.

/Z

MasterZap
11-28-2005, 06:55 AM
This is not normal. I intuit that there must be a combination of all the flags that end up essentially Motion Blurring that pass

As I said above, this may happen in some cases, that you (or the application) does not use a true shutter 0 but shutter 0.00001 or such. If so 1/time_contrast samples WILL be taken if the object moves. So ... set time contrast to 1 1 1 1 !! I repeat set time contrast to 1 1 1 1 !! when rendering motion vectors!!

/Z

lazzhar
11-28-2005, 07:19 PM
So ... set time contrast to 1 1 1 1 !! I repeat set time contrast to 1 1 1 1 !! when rendering motion vectors!!

/Z

Yeah... set time contrast to 1 1 1 1 !! I repeat set time contrast to 1 1 1 1 !! when rendering motion vectors!!
It boosts incredibly the speed up :)

pierrejasmin
11-29-2005, 02:46 AM
"Also Seth, you say in that thread that you use 16 as Max Displace, Normalize value -- this might not be enough when you have large motion.
Pierre
www.revisionfx.com (http://www.revisionfx.com)

Playing with MI2 files in stand-alone I think I see why you are doing this. In XSI if I work with the option "Evaluate Motion SRT at shutter speed" then if one would set a pass with no MB (beauty pass) and a pass with shutter 0.5 0.5, then the second pass would be half a frame warped while still in the same camera view... (not sure this delay value how implemented by 3D hosts make much sense) so it would not perfectly match the original shape. By using a small value if shutter 0.0 does not work (if Maya does not set "motion on" when talking to MR) you make sure they are not significantly misaligned. Thus that would mean if one uses a value of 0.01 for shutter then 1.0/0.01 being 100X, your Normalize value of 16 in shader would equal to 1600 as Max Displace in RSMB for 360 shutter opening equivalent (or 800 for 180 deg). Anyway something to test here later this week.

Pierre

pierrejasmin
12-01-2005, 09:16 PM
After doing some tests yesterday I finally figure out the source of confusion I think.
If one does a beauty render with MB off and an MV render with shutter 0.5 0.5 with Pass Current Alpha checked in Custom Entities, I see a small nudge in alpha coverage, thus one cannot as far as I can see, simply use the color pass alpha rendered with MB off as MV alpha.

To replicate without any special shader. Render a simple scene where objects scale, rotate, translate... with MB off and with shutter at 0.5 0.5 with Exact Deformation and compare the result. I get a small offset (like a pixel). It's a bit confusing as I see as well a lighting difference rendering even if the camera or lights are not animated.

Pierre

pierrejasmin
12-01-2005, 11:30 PM
So I did a small increment on the doc for Maya users for Motion Vectors. Thanks so much for the Custom Entities Alpha thing. I realize now that users who had to erode the alpha in post = users who used the beauty pass alpha... That alignment issue is not much of a problem for Motion Blur but probably is for timewarping.

http://www.revisionfx.com/generalfaqsMVMaya.htm

Would be simpler if Maya did like Max 8 and added a built-in render element for that which sets everything properly automatically.

Pierre
www.revisionfx.com (http://www.revisionfx.com)

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