Low poly modelling

[mastering3d]

>>I,m looking to do some low poly modelling in max (for my reel)
>>the model as an editable poly with meshtools would I need to convert

If your looking to make a model for your demoreel then make it from what ever you want ,Why are you asking about lowpoly and then saying meshsmooth I just don't under stand that.Did you not say you wanted to make a lowpoly model then why would you use meshsmooth that's no on that if your going for lowpoly.And all so if you was making a lowpoly model for a game then you would use editmesh as the poly count on that is lower then poly .poly will be allot more higher when converted to editmesh ,Try it and see what I mean in the view press Q and you will see the poly count in the viewport.Now convert a poly model to editmesh and see the poly count go up.

Good luck with the demo reel

[thedaemon]

mastering3d u are mistaken ;) max counts the triangle polys no matter what u are in. I would just use edit poly, and either convert to edit mesh, and fix your edges, or manually fix the edges in edit poly/tesselate or something. :applause:

[mastering3d]

"Editable Poly" or an "Editable Mesh"? If it is an editable poly you will find your poly count almost doubles when you convert it down to tri's (editable mesh), which will need to be done before going into a game engine.
But this is not for a game it's no big deal really.

@thedaemon >>I dont think so go and try it for your self and you
will find out.And since you have only been at 3ds max for about 8 months or so what do you no.I have been useing it form day one ,Max 1 that is.So how can you say its not right when I no that it is.I am sure that there are more user's here that can say the same this as me.

Here's an image to show you what I am saying about it.

http://www.nmba18878.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/polycount/mesh%20count.jpg

[reaver]

mastering3d

what the hell are you talking about when did I say anything about meshsmooth!!

I'm not a complete idiot I do know the difference between high and low poly modelling.

Try reading my post again its MESHTOOLS not MESHSMOOTH and if you have'nt used MESHTOOLS before I suggest you go out and get yourself a copy

Also I don't know what version of Max you're using but when I convert an EDITABLE POLY into an EDITABLE MESH and visa versa the poly count remains exactly the same. I've tried it on high poly models and as you show in your pic a sphere.


As you can see here
http://www.imagedesign.org.uk/pics/poly-mesh1.jpg

So I'm wondering why do I have to convert to tri's is it because as you say most game engines use them?

In Paul Steeds excellent book 3d character modelling he uses editable meshes but every low poly Maya model I've seen seems to be in quads, although I heard they have to triangulate them to get a correct face count.

So what gives.

Later.

Nick

[Theta]

It shouldn't matter if it's an editable poly or editable mesh...

The reason you might want an editable mesh is if you want control over the tri's, like in Paul Steed's book where he flips the edges, makes the edges visible/invisible, etc. The tri's are still there in edit poly, you just can't turn them.

When you hear someone say something like "my model has 2,000 polys", it really means 2,000 triangles for the game, not 2,000 4-sided polys.

Of course, thedaemon already said this, so I'm just rambling on :p

[Gamoron]

:scream: this is funny.

[Theta]

the blind leading the blind

[mastering3d]

That happens because when you are in "poly" mode, Max connsiders a quad
face, or larger face (like a 5 sided polygon), as 1 polygon.

In actuality a polygon is defined by three points or a tri.

When you convert it down to "editable mesh" Max triangulates all the faces,
so a quad becomes two tris, and a five sided face becomes three tris, and so
on.

Yes. If you create a simple box, convert it to an editable Poly Mesh,and open the poly counter. You will notice that it displays just 6 polys. The reason is that when in editable poly, there is no hidden edge creating faces like there is when working with an editable mesh. So as soon as you convert the box from an editable poly into an editable mesh, all of the hidden edges are added to the model, hence creating 12 polys instead of 6. Basically when working with an editable poly mesh, a polygon is
considered to be a quad or four point face. In editable mesh, a face is considered to be a polygon.

Understand now ?????

[Wiro]

I don't know why it's different to you Reaver but if I create a sphere and convert it to EPoly I get almost half the polys of EMesh.

Anyway, if you are creating a model to a specific polycount, ALWAYS make sure that true TRIS are counted. So yes, convert to EMesh. Depending on the game engine this may even be a requirement. If it's just for your reel you can do whatever you want to as long as you make sure to count the tris.

In Max's EPolys as in Maya there are no hidden edges. A polygon is treated as a true polygon not as a collection of tris (As mastering3D pointed out). In Maya there is a tool to count triangles so there is no reason to triangulate them, that's why the Maya models you see are all quads.

As for the hidden edges, there is actually a way to flip them in EPoly mode; select a polygon and press Edit Triangulation

Wiro

[reaver]

@mastering3d: Nah.........when you can tell the difference between MESHTOOLS and MESHSMOOTH I might start listening to ya (and if you were'nt so partronizing).

Anyway what freaking version of Max are you using anyway, maybe its still Dos, cause when I make a box in max the poly counter says 12 triangles in poly or mesh.

I think its time you upgraded old boy.

Thanks Theta and thedaemon thats all I wanted to know.

I opened up a low poly cage of one of my high poly head models and pressed "Q" and it said 1796 triangles, I converted to an editable mesh and guess what it said.........wait for it... 1796 triangles.

So unless someone can come up with a better and less condesending explaination than ol' mastering3d over there I'm with you guys on this one and I'm sticking to EDITABLE POLYS and MESHTOOLS.

Keep smiling.

Nick.

[Wiro]

Originally posted by reaver
[BI opened up a low poly cage of one of my high poly head models and pressed "Q" and it said 1796 triangles, I converted to an editable mesh and guess what it said.........wait for it... 1796 triangles.[/B]

That's weird. I'm on 3ds max 4.2.6 and the polycount is definately different. Which is the reason why I've always converted back and forth if I wanted a reliable count.
I'd be interested in knowing why this is. Any script or plugin you are using?

Wiro

[reaver]

Hey Wiro,

Thanks for the reply I've long been an admirer of your work so its nice to hear from you.

I don't know why my version of max is any different to anyone elses (4.2) but in the max manual V.1 page 832 it says the polygon counter counts faces and according to Max (ref V1 page 612) and who am I to argue "A face is the smallest possible mesh object: a triangle formed by three vertices.

That would explain why I get an accurate tri count in Epoly or Emesh.

But anyway enuff already my question has been more than answered. I,m sticking with Epolys.

Cheers.

Nick.

[reaver]

Hey Wiro

No Just Meshtools.

This is getting creepy. Does this happen to anyone else?

[Wiro]

We're...out...of...synch...:D

Wiro

[visualboo]

LMAO....:D

[Chris]

It does it here too, epoly has about half the count of emesh. & converting back & forth changes each time...

Reaver, your not using that 'epoly2' plugin are you? The one which allows you to shift-extrude edges?

[reaver]

Nope:shrug:

When you press "Q" with an Epoly does it say "triangles" in the corner, which I presume means its counting the amount of triangles in the scene or does it say something else "polygons" for example.

[Nahaz]

You can edit the triangulation of an E-poly. The edges don't auto turn like they do in Maya.

You will find that E-poly and E-mesh objects will hardware render (in OpenGL mode at least) differently.

[Wiro]

It says triangles but both in that counter and the one in the Utilities read differently with EPolys and EMeshes

Wiro

[reaver]

Well you've got me.

I think I,m gonna have to sleep on this one.

See you in the funny pages.

Nick.

[mastering3d]

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael B. Comet
To: mastering3d
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:29 AM
Subject: RE:


I'm not sure. Try it and find out. It probably does because Edit Poly has true N sided polys, although you can edit triangulation thru the edit triangulation button to tweak how it flows.

Edit Mesh only has triangles. So it is probably counting each of those individually. Ie a basic square in poly is one poly, but in mesh it is 2 because of the hidden edge, there are actually 2 triangles there.

-----Original Message-----
From: mastering3d
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:58 PM
To: comet@comet-cartoons.com
Subject:


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for meshtool well there great,Thanks for asking LOL...

[xynaria]

Adding to the overall mess :D
from what I've been able to work out so far
If I have an Editable Mesh and bring up the polygon counter the display is in theory an accurate call of the triangle count
If I have an Editable Poly and and bring up the polygon counter the display is nearly half because in theory it seems to be counting n-gons instead consequently the occaissional tri will stop the count being exactly half.
If I put mesh smooth on the counts appear to be the same at one or more iterations.
:)

[Bugcatcher]

Everyone is correct when they say a different poly count is registered dependant whether you are in poly or mesh mode for the reasons mentioned earlier.

I must also be noted that max treats all objects as tri meshes when it renders, so I does not really matter what you use as it will show the same face count in the render window.

If you wish to see a true poly count while working on an editable poly, just place an edit mesh modifier on top of the stack.

Lastly, when you meshsmooth an editable poly it will register an 'editable poly' poly count, whereas if you use the 'HSDS' modifer, it will show a 'editable mesh' count.

Later.

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