Advice for crossing over to Bigger Programs?

[Roger Eberhart]

Most of the game studios use Max or Maya. Still, if you put together a killer demo reel in AM I think you'll be fine. Animation especially is more about developing good timing than knowing a particular software. Same goes for modeling and texturing. You could render out your AM models at 1 poly per patch and they would look just like anything you produce in Max or Maya.

[aes]

Hey All, here's some specific questions.
Right now I'm trying to learn Maya. I miss changing views with the num keys, is there an equivalent hot keys in Maya. Also is there a way to key everything at once, or do I have to start every time by selecting every manipulator and choosing key in the channel box? I also miss being able to grab a null and translating or rotating it without having to hit any keys, am I missing something in Maya?


-Hey Roger,
Thanks for the reply, that seems to be the common view, "spend your time learning to animate, not learnign different programs." But since I am self taught with no experience and I will be competing against people who have degrees and maybe internship experience(or more) I feel like having to be trained on the studios' software (Maya or Max or whatever) will be another knock against me, especially if I can get a basic gist of it on my own. Also I recently saw a post by Michael Smith over on CGTalk where he was posting a walk cycle of a spider thing that a potential employer wanted him to rig and animate, he already is in the industry and they are wanting him to be able to where many hats. So basicly I'm thinking that if I'm going to get in, it will probably be a small shop with out seperate animation and rigging and modeling departments. Also I have recently completed an animation demo with A:M (except a second round of nitpicky clean up) but felt it would be stronger if I could quickly pick up some Maya and Max skills. But if I hear back from the forum that these conditions I am thinking of don't apply maybe I will just start sending out demos now.

-Alonso

[hoochoochoochoo]

I'd like to be an animator, but I figure the little shops often are everything rolled into one so I'm trying to learn modeling rigging and texturing as well. I'll probably be targeting game companies.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=114581

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=95403

[3DArtZ]

AES, good question. While A:M has aided my self taught 3d education and helped build a solid base in many areas of character work, I can't stress the next line I type....
Learn Maya. Maya has a free download from thier site with many tutorials.
If you want to have a shot a getting work, don't have a strike against you by not knowing a major 3d package.
Yes it's true that you can get a job with a killer reel, but it's also true that any american citizen can run for president.
Unless you are a prodigy or something, you might as well be familiar with the industry tools.
Oh one more thing, learn maya. It's free to learn with their demo.
Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com

[hoochoochoochoo]

You could start a war with what constitutes a major 3D package as some people (XSI users) say Maya itself is in need of a serious re-write..
AES talked about Games and my suspicion would be 3DMax or GMax (free) but I posted links particularly as this subject comes up in one guise or another.

Mike, you mentioned one thing I whole-heartedly agreed with and Dalemation mentions in the second link - the self-taught guy slaving over a hot computer has just as good a chance as the guy who learned the software in a college somewhere.

[Kanga]

Hi Aes

Originally posted by Roger Eberhart
Same goes for modeling and texturing. You could render out your AM models at 1 poly per patch and they would look just like anything you produce in Max or Maya.

Roger you are wrong,... I just did it,... it don't work ol buddy! 3d Max 6 only reads 3ds export from AM and it comes out as a mesh not a poly as there is NO .obj support in AM. The mesh is a triangle format which is denser and inflexible compared to the 4 corner poly patch. Maya 5 reads nothing from AM (although Maya 6 is just out). Anyhow it isnt a render you are after, you have a model but what then?

Aes
Maya5 or 6 for specifically the film industry.
3dMax 6 for film, architecture, car design, gaming industry, etc etc,... depends where your interest lies

How to learn either of these,.. do every tutorial you can get your hands on fast, concentrate on tutorials where your interests lie first. Max 6 has a total cd devoted to tutorials which I am ripping through now, but that is stand alone liscence. Maya I am not sure.

Anyhow there are Max and Maya forums here at CGTalk devoted to the separate applications, ask specifics there.

BTW. if Maya is like Max there should be a hot key guide to tell you which keys to hit, there are intro films at the beginning and most poly modellers use more than one view at a time.

Greetings Kanga

[Roger Eberhart]

Kanga,

I wasn't suggesting he export the model to Max, just that he set the render setting in AM to 1 poly per patch. That way he can render a low poly model in AM. Although, now that I think of it, that would probably look like crap because you can't set smoothing groups in AM. Oh well.

[hoochoochoochoo]

Originally posted by Roger Eberhart
Kanga,

I wasn't suggesting he export the model to Max, just that he set the render setting in AM to 1 poly per patch. That way he can render a low poly model in AM. Although, now that I think of it, that would probably look like crap because you can't set smoothing groups in AM. Oh well.

Hi Roger!
if you set the preview shaded Render mode to 1 poly per patch then you are disabling the smoothing effect that AM allows you in the Final Render Setting. I think you are asking AM to do two different things at the same time there!

You can set smoothing at different levels (smoothing groups) using the new Porcelain in version 11 but you disable it if you ask for a preview 1 poly per patch render.

[alfiebabes]

Originally posted by Kanga

Aes
Maya5 or 6 for specifically the film industry.
3dMax 6 for film, architecture, car design, gaming industry, etc etc,... depends where your interest lies
[/B]

I'm really sorry but don't tell anyone to learn 3DMax to work in the Car Design field. Alias Wavefront own that end of the market with StudioTools and Sketchbook pro.

You can get a stunning car model out of most 3D Packages, including Max but the guys I'm still in contact with are all StudioTools users and so are the designers in their studios.

[Ran13]

3d Max 6 only reads 3ds export from AM and it comes out as a mesh not a poly as there is NO .obj support in AM

There is an OBJ HIE file for A:M on the Hash FTP.

Habware has Max 3/4/5/6 OBJ import/export plugs for free, IIRC. (and, if memory serves me right, they support quad polys :) )

I been makin' game models for years with A:M and the engine I'm most familiar with supports smoothing groups in Max. At first I thought there was no way to set smoothing groups in A:M. True, there is no "Set Smoothing group" panel or function in A:M, but if you stop and think about what a "smoothing group" is, you'll realize that with peaked CP's, geometry groups, and group colors, you can easily "force" a smoothing group due to the way most game engines (and DirectX for that matter) handles surface properties.

[Kanga]

Well I made this in AM,... and would never again.
http://www.art-werx.com/amstuff/caroposter.jpg

http://www.art-werx.com/amstuff/carotopposter.jpg

You can make anything in AM
Yes its all about talent and not about software.
Yes you can get around anything and make it work if you put your mind to it.

I am just a little dazzeled by the quality and speed of Max 6 at the moment, I have been loyal to AM since version 8.0

Greetings Kanga

[alfiebabes]

Originally posted by Kanga

Yes its all about talent and not about software.
Yes you can get around anything and make it work if you put your mind to it.


This is a very valid point Kanga, I don't disagree but let me put it this way - the Wavefront tools I mentioned are specifically designed to produce a render much like a car stylist would traditionally produce with marker and pen. They will also produce a more traditional "High Gloss" render like the one you posted and that you will often see in the finished work section of CGTalk. 3DMax and AM can and will produce reasonably similar results if an artist works at it long enough and knows enough about texture maps, lighting etc etc but no designer ever spends that time doing the "shiny render" as we used to call it. You're being paid to design cars, not to spend hours rendering out such images.

Studiotools is not just for nice renders or sketchy renders either - it communicates with the pre-production machinery to produce scale and full size mock-ups to test out ergonomic rigs etc etc etc.
I've read animation studio people talk of a "pipeline" etc... 3DMax and AM good as they are are are tools best equipped for a different industry & pipeline.

Again, I apologise if this comes across wrong - it's not meant to be a rant. You have a great model and the image is one of the better one's I've seen on CGTalk (certainly one of the most artistic car renders) – you haven’t wasted your time either as you have learned invaluable skills and these could be used to sell product stills or finished concept mock-ups etc. AM helped you develop those skills!!

[Bill_Young]

Originally posted by hoochoochoochoo
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=114581

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=95403

You know I wish I had been alerted to a spriticles discussion when it was current... Now... I'm feeling.... The Cumpulsion.... To post to a dead thread!!!:surprised

[hoochoochoochoo]

Now... I'm feeling.... The Cumpulsion.... To post to a dead thread!!!

Good threads don't die, they get revisited and added to from time to time. Can you imagine if this was a mailing list?

We'd have the same discussion every 3months but with threads, if someone asks a question that has already been answered you can post the link so they see all the questions they would have answered!

:beer:

[aes]

Hola,

I haven't visited CGTalk in a while, and here I find my little thread is starting to grow up .sniff. Anyway, just thought I'd mention, I got to work on Maya 5 PLE(takes like 8 hours on a dial up) and feel like I have a fair grasp of it already. Found that the biggest learning curve was in understanding the interface, hot keys, shortcuts, and new windows. But animation is the same, just different words for things. (Have to say I find Maya's graph editor and timeline kind of clunky looking compared to A:M's sleeker style, but thats just visual's)

Amazingly my public library had a Maya 4.5 Fundamentals. So I went through that twice. Crunched through a bunch of tutorials (especially www.thehobbitguy.com ,and low poly character and joan of arc over at www.3dtotal.com, and the ones in the help files) And dowloaded Generi rig and messed around (walk cycles and stuff). I feel like I have the basic idea of everything, enough to say I know it, and feel pretty confident that if I do get a job I'll be able to keep up. Modeling I'm weaker on but that's not my focus, and with more time I'd get faster and better.

But I'm finishing my demo in A:M because I already have models there and it won't have MAYA PLE written all over my renderings. And I want to get it done instead of having another distraction like making a decent model to animate in Maya. Focus and stamina, the best pieces are the ones I finish without getting distracted by learning something new.

So thanks for the help. I'll let you know when I get a job.(I think I can I think I can) Maybe I'll post my demo for crit's when its finished.

-Alonso

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