Beast of Burden - Character - Joril

[Joril]

Hmm, 35 views and still no comments.:curious:
Anyway, this is the result after a few hours of modelling.
I'm not very happy the way it is now though, although it's supposed to be a plant-eater, he still looks to friendly. He also needs a broader body with a bit more folds. The wings need a bit more work too.
Any thoughts or opinions on this? Don't be to shy to let me know. :D
Here's the pic.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob1.jpg

[Joril]

Oh-kaaay, I've been wip-ing.
I'm not very happy the way it is now though
It looked to plain and gave me stomach-aches.
I changed all that. Hopefully I've come up with somthing a bit more... original.
Far from finished, but a step in the right direction.
I'll give him some claws soon and tweak some more.
C&C are welcome.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob2.jpg

[Koma]

nice idea and good start ,but i think the face need some refinment

[otacon]

looks good.:thumbsup: The face reminds me of a raptor.

[Crode]

looks very good so far but you need an elbow in your wing structure, especially if you plan on doing any animation

I did a winged woman a few months back so i did some study on the skeletal structure of birds and its like a whole arm with 2 long fingers. Heres a pic i found:

[hypercube]

Looking cool..I like the body shape/stance a lot better now than the first pic..is it going to 'grip' the burden or still hang from a harness?

I agree some further refinement on the face would be good, but it's early yet..main crit I'd have right now is that the wings seem too 'skeletal', like it's a gathering of bones at the joint instead of under skin/muscles. Good point on the 'elbow' wing structure as well.

Otherwise, good stuff and concept..keep it grooving :thumbsup:

[Joril]

Gabe and otacon: thanks!! Personally I thought the head had something of a birds beak. :D
Crode: thanks for the reference, I added to my reference pictures. It didn't even cross my mind to make an elbow joint, I was using a dragon statue ref that didn't have an elbow. :surprised
hypercube: Well, about the burdon, I was thinking of letting him hold it in his dragon-hand-like claws.like it's a gathering of bones at the joint
Well, actually that was intentional. I put each bone into a seperate layer so I could play around with them to see what looks best. I'm going to "fuse" them together later on.

I'll continue modelling tomorrow, so stay tuned :D

[ZrO-1]

To me the wings look more like bat wings than bird wings. Here is a link to a good picture of a bat in flight with the wings in different positions: http://www.abc-kid.com/bats/index6.html

[Joril]

Added claws, elbow, a pair of new wings (made good use of the subpatch weights) and a lot of tender loving care.
Comments, tips and good ideas are welcome as always. :)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob3.jpg

[ZrO-1]

The wings look much better. Really nice job on them. I also like the feet. They look like they will be holding something. Maybe the straps for the burden? Anyway nice work so far.

[Joril]

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob4.jpg

[rizob]

lookin awsome only crti right now (i know you have a month)
the wings look a little stiff. try to go for that organic continuity.
keep spending that time. this bobs gonna be great

checkout my beast
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12719&pagenumber=2

[Joril]

Thanks rizob, I'm going to spend some more time on the wings next, make em a bit firmer and, thanks for pointing that out, less stiff. I hadn't really noticed.
I'm also going to "link" the muscles on his chest to his wings.
Hmm, I'm gonna get some coffee, than start wipping again. :hmm:

[Joril]

Gave the head and the wings some attention. But now I must find an elegant solution for the stomach. I'm thinking of making him a little fatter around that area.
Meanwhile my computer is being a big nuiscance, it's almost unable to render the subpatched model realtime.
Here's the render:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob6.jpg

Click here for the big picture. (http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob6BIG.jpg)
It's 357kb and 1100 x 1300 pixels big. So please be patient.
C&C is still welcome.

[AroundTheFur]

hey joril sorry i dont reply before i did have my eye on this one and since u gave me some help ill give you some. I think the hands/feet or whatever the bottom limbs are look great, although i have to assume they are arm because of the muscle structure. the empty space on the pecs(?) i guess where the wings come out needs something, maybe another set of arms, i think that would be cool, ass opposed to arms and legs, just having arms. the head looks great id like to see a close up of the eye socket tho so i could better tell whats goin on. hope this helps

[Danko]

Nice model Joril :)
I specially dig on the face. But just a thought... it seems to me that the legs do look more like upper arms. Maybe they should fold first backwards and then forward, don't know if i'm expressing this correctly :( . They actually straight from the hip and bend forward wich in my opinion looks anatomically unnatural. The fact is that I like them cause they look as if holding some weight. If you pull them up under the wings they could work as arms and model a new couple of legs to the beast ;) . Maybe is just me... Anyway, keep doing! :thumbsup:

[Joril]

Cool, thanks! :beer:
I think you could call it his arms. You saw the first model hated it so I wanted to try something new, so I threw the anatomy around, cut the hind legs and put his arms down there, they are needed to haul stuff. It looked kinda cool, so I kept the design :D
I wondered how he would be able to walk, but that's no problem, he can walk on his hand-claws (a bit like a bird) Or I could hang him upside down like a bat, I'll see once I rig him.
You are right about where the wings come out, I'm going to tuck them more into the flesh. (try to anyway)
Oh and here's a close up of the head:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/headclose6.jpg

[Joril]

it seems to me that the legs do look more like upper arms ... They actually straight from the hip and bend forward wich in my opinion looks anatomically unnatural.
That's kinda tha whole point ;)

[AroundTheFur]

im sure you ahvent gotten to the detailing in the face quite yet, and im sure yo have a good idea of what u want, but i fu want my two dollars(damn right) then id say put something around those holes(nostrils/back things), work on the eyes alot, i think it might even look cooler with smaller eyes like that char in ur avatar, the chin and tip of the nose look kind funky, i can put my finger on it but its something wierd. and i would make the spikes coming out have a root of skin and maybe bigger at the base. cool tho like the idea

[Joril]

*eagerly writes down the suggestions*
Actually I was kinda at a loss with the face when I did it very late last night/early this morning. I'm going to make the spikes look more like a dino/dragon-beak or something.
The back nostrils are supposed to be his ears :D
Hmm, the eyes could be smaller, yes. :hmm:
I also thought to add more of the small details like wrinkels with a bump map instead of geometrie, I might kill my pc.

[Joril]

I worked on the head, I'm still not a happy little Jedi but I have to sleep sometime. :D

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/headclose7.jpg

What do you think?

[AroundTheFur]

i think its better, but make that intersection of those muscles more of a cheek bone. looks good bro :buttrock:

oh and maybe make his expression look like hes struggling, you now carrying something heavy.

[Joril]

I worked on the head again, and I changed the connection of the wings - the wing it self is next up. And then finally the armour.
I could keep tweaking the head for ever. I know there's a few flat areas on it. I'm thinking of a bumpmap soon. So that will give it more detail.
Hmm, I hope some people will get to see my work before it gets buried again.
Comment away! ( if you can :p )

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/headclose8.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob8.jpg

For a big version click right here. (http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob8BIG.jpg)
It's as big as the previous big render it might take a little longer to load on slow connections, so please be patient.

[Joril]

I changed the head some more. IMO it's better now.

The "dreads" on the head remind me of the aztecs somehow, So I'm prolly going for that style in armour, trickets and burden. that will be some wooden armor, the aztecs (and mayas and olmeks) didn't know about metallurgy. And Wood is lighter that metal, I don't want my beast to be over-burdened.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/headclose9.jpg

Any comments, suggestions? No? That's ok with me.:hmm:

[Crode]

Im not sure but its looks a little strange on the cheek where that vertical line is split by the mouth. Maybe points of the mouth are too deep into the head... A couple head images back there was one with a quite small mouth and that looks.... better maybe somewhere in between the two or just restructure that vertical seam

[hypercube]

Looking cool, like the more birdlike vibe..the aztec idea sounds great, should really set it apart stylistically too..the wing/shoulder setup is moving in a great direction also.

One crit about the 'dreads', should figure out if they're skin-covered or not, or if they'll hang loose, that sort of thing..right now they flow smoothly out, if they're hornlike you should put a 'base' on them, or etc. figure out what parts of the face are skin-like and which are bone-like, and model that in.

[Joril]

Thanks for the replies guys. :)

Crode: about the vertical line, the way it was before with the small mouth I thought would be impossible for the creature to open and close it's mouth in a normal way.
So I split the whole beak open like you see with regular dragon pics, I moved away from the dino look a bit more then. I'm not sure f I'll change it, because I don't have an alternative (yet).

hypercube: I figured the dreads are not bone, that has been done before alot. They are skin covered and movable, with cartilage (hope I'm using that word in the right way) inside. Much like ears. So they should move around a bit like the long feathers of those South-American tropical birds.
You know what I'm talking about :D

[ZrO-1]

hehehe I'm bad, I didn't even bother to read the other crits that were posted after the new pics. So I guess I might repeat a couple things but I want to get this out before I forget what I wanted to say.

As for the mouth, i like that you made it longer but I think that is should end where that vertical ridge on the cheek is. I would love to see that flxable 'webbing' stretch from the new corner of the mouth forward to where the old corner of the mouth was.

I like the changes you made to the shoulders. Maybe just add in a more defined arm-pit under the shoulders.

As far as the legs. I like that you have them turned around. Bats actually have that same thing. it lets them hang from the rocks with their bellys against the rock instead of their backs. What I'd suggest you do though is to stretch the "biceps" muscles up onto the side of the hip and have them wrap around towards (but not onto) the back.

Whew...... I think I got it all...

[Joril]

I like the webbing in the mouth corner idea. I'm going to do that, sort of.
About the legs, they're not actually legs, they're arms, which can me used as legs.
Bats have legs. My beast has arms with a twistable pulse, so I think he'd be quite able to hang uside down with his belly against the wall :D
I know it's not conventional but, well, think that's just me. :D
Yes, I thought about the armpits and fixed them before. I'll be working on the wings next, once I put up a render of them you'll see the armpits too.
It's nice to know you're thinking this all through, thanks ZrO-1!

[Fedron]

Joril your flying beast is really improving, i love the inverted, uuuu legs? A no, you're saying that they're arms? whatever very cool. Only one think bother me is about the wings i post a mod of one of your pictures to show you. I'don't know maybe you did it like that with an originality purpose.
Cheers, looking forward.

[Joril]

Thanks Fedron!
I know what you mean, however, when I thought about that, I thought "Hey, I'm not modelling a bat here". So, I'm going to modify the wings some more to get a dragon like look.
But I might think about the mod you're suggesting again. Like letting the wing continue a bit longer over the muscles on the armpit and the back.

I actually toyed with the idea to cover his wings with feathers, like the early dino-birds. With that he'd actually resemble the Aztec God Xiuhquaugcôatl (you know, the winged snake). :D

[Fedron]

I see, i think the the feather is a very cool idea AND original. Big feathers similar to giant scales. Yep i know the god you're talking about, but i think it's Quetzacoatl, the feathered snake. hehehe. Whatever keep going dude your in the good path. :)

[rickycox]

Love the wings and the head but something strange aboutthe back legs, looks like arms ready to catch a football??

[Joril]

Hehe, people don't seam to get over the whole arms for legs thing, funny. :D

Anyway, I actually did, a little bit of "work", today. So here's the daily update.
I modelled a feather, a rather simple one, Alot of these are going to cover my creature's wings! :D And if it looks good, it's a keeper.
I think to much detail will only give away that each third of feathers are clones of each other.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/feather.jpg


Edit: I forgot to ask, does anyone think a Saslite feather would look better?

[Gamoron]

Strange indeed. Looks great though, I can't quite see what it will be carrying. I know you're going to surprise me though.

[Joril]

Gamoron: you'll just have to wait and see ;)

A little update for today, I messed around with the feathers, it looks like absolute crap the way it is now, the position of the feathers suck, the wings are to big (I just folded the wings open thats why), the feathers are to big.
I'm rebuilding the wings tomorrow. With feathers. Only this time they'll look good :D
I'll show a render once they're done.

[Joril]

Ok, I've been busy again. Wings, feathers, clones, positioning, expanding selections..... My computer slowing down like hell :insane:
Anyway, I don't actually need crits on this, I could use some good advice on how to make a realistic looking wing.
Here's where I am so far.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob11.jpg

[Joril]

... or should I go back to dragon wings?

[Koma]

i prefer those wing ,really cool ..... keep it up !!!:bounce: :buttrock:

[ZrO-1]

I like the feathered wings more myself. One thing you could do with the wing is 'scallop' the edge of the solid part of the wing and also lay a layer of a simplified version of the feathers over the edge, leaving a few areas out. That would blend the solid wing and the geometry feathers together without going crazy adding all the feathers of a wing.

By the way the work so far on those wings is awesome they look really good already.

[road]

I like the feathered wings better...
I would add a couple of overlapping sets of feathers and make them vary to get a realistic appearance..

[Rex]

wow~I like the feathered wing too~and agree with the road says!you should add some detials on it!
and can you post some closer pics to let me see the detial of your beast?




Check out my Beast of Burden (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12984&pagenumber=2)

[Crash]

nice idea, the detailing of the wings should be easy if you decide to go on the feathered variant, just put on more feathers :p . I really dig the grabing hands, no critiques except maybe the bodys level of detail, but that's not a major problem.

[AroundTheFur]

I hate to be the only one saying this, but with a little more detail i much prefer the dragon wing, it fits the beast more. It has no indication of being bird-like anywhere else, and i know you could have an angel type thing goin on, but he sure dont look like an angel. just a thought, continue. :buttrock:

[iC4]

I like both wings....each has it's own style

if you go for the wings with feathers, just add more feathers and it will look wonderful

http://www.jackals-forge.com/tutor/tut1.html

here you can see what I mean :)

[Gollum]

Im not too fond of the feathers either I have to admit. Maybe they can be dramatically improved upon, but right now I'd rather have the more dragon-like wings back and improved instead. Just my opinion tho.
The rest of the BoB is very cool though, looks like it could lift some pretty hefty loads with those arms/legs, the muscles look very good, as is the head! :)
I'm curious as to how this poor beast is ever gonna get some rest, not having anything obvious to use for landing... ;)

[Joril]

Maybe it's time for a little explanation about the wings.

My Beast lives in the lands of the (not so Ancient) Aztecs, they believe the creature is a gift from their God Quetzacoatl, to help them build those grand stone cities, build out of massive rocks. How else do you believe these rocks got there? (Don't say the Atlantiens build them, might be true but it messes with my story ;) ).
Quetzacoatl is a feathered snake (wings included)(oh and with thanks to fedron), hence the feathered wings.
I'm thinking of calling the beast a Quetzal-Drake.
The drake sleeps like a bat/flying dog (hope thats right in English) or he might sleep like a bird, I'll have to do some more research.
Hope you like the little story :D

But enough talk, here's the update:
I remodeled the feathers because the old were to high poly.
The other additions should be clear.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob12.jpg

A bigger version is available right here !! (http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/bob12BIG.jpg)
The image is 393kb, so please be patient while it loads.

[ZrO-1]

Those wings look goregeous man. Fantastic job on them.

That story is cool too. Well thought out and explanitory. Now you need to start adding in all sorts of Aztec trinkets and decorations to it. ;)

[Joril]

Thanks ZrO-1!

I haven't really worked on it for some days, I've been to busy finishing Warcraft III last two evenings. And been reading on some Aztec culture and history.
for example:
... On the night of the O' Nothing Days, O' priests would dress up as the supreme gods and wait on the top of an extinct volcano. When the evening star reached the top of the sky, the priests would stretch the captive over an altar, or a special stone. Then the high priest would light a fire on the victim's heart and tear it out. After the heart is cut, the priest would hold the heart to the sun, then put it in a sacred dish. Finally, the bodies were rolled down the temple stairs to lie in a heap. Even after that, most victims were happy to die because they thought they would go straight to heaven ...
This has nothing to do with my creature, but what a delightful culture.

All that reading gave me some nice inspiration about the trinkets and armour.
It will have alot of feathers, Aztec symbols and light wooden armour (as mentioned before)
I'll post a real update tomorrow, honestly!!
:D

[nez]

WOOW
great modeling! i love the wings , hand and arms..i love it all!
:)

[Joril]

I started with the armour, it's still all very rough.
I'll be adding more detail and continue teaking tomorrow.
For now ... need sleep, becoming immune to caffeïne.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/armour1.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/armour2.jpg

[Joril]

Been working in the armour this evening.
Hope you guys and gals like it!

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/armour3.jpg

Oh and by the way:
This is my 500th post !!!
:beer: :bounce: :beer:

[Joril]

No comments? I'll be moving on to the bump mapping soon I hope. So I shouldn't spend that much time on armour, so If anyone has something to say about it, I'd like to hear it now.

[ZrO-1]

Hey man, that's looking great. i love how you make the bird-tail part of the beast part of the armor so that it can also keep it's reptillian tail. That was an awesome idea. The Incan serpent head on the armor looks sweet as well. Is that a bump map?

Everything on this rocks right now. I have no crits for you :shrug: :D

[Joril]

As always, thanks alot ZrO-1!
Actually I got the idea for the tail from the Aztec shields which were decorated with feathers.
The serpent head is geometry, I'll give it a jade material colour. The armour itself will be dark painted wood.
All work for tonight :D

[SDIT]

Awesome work. I really like the way you developed the face. I thought maybe for reference you should check the "Black Waltz #3" from FFIX. I thought it could help.
Good work!

SDIT

:thumbsup: :airguitar :airguitar

[Klaymen]

I like the concept of feathered wings, but I do not like the flat area in front of the feathers.. If you dont change that I think you should go bakc to the dragon wings...

[Joril]

SDIT: thanks! I checked out that character, looks nice and feathery :)

Klaymen: I know about the flat area, the thing is, feathers in that area get smaller. making them geometry would kill my nerves and my computer, I haven't got the moster PC some of the people around here have.

I'm working on the (planar) bumpmaps now, but some annoying computer chrashes set me back. I hope I'll get to finish it.

[erilaz]

Now that's cool! The flying repltile really works well! Love the armour idea! :thumbsup:

[derwolpertinger]

i already saw your entry a while ago but great progression you made with it!!:buttrock: only thing that bothers me is that the feather look all too similar-you know: same angles and such. bring in a bit more variation to them. that would make them look more realistic.

[Manicalavera15]

Hi !:beer:
kind realistic wings:applause:
You look for eagle hypogriffe modeling
cool technic, just a crit : wings have so much featherrrrrrr horribleeeeeee (500000000000000000 faces / 2 wings lol)
and your model seems to have few feather...no?

good luck man !
CGtalk BIRD RuleZ !!!:thumbsup:

[Manicalavera15]

Hi !:beer:
kind realistic wings:applause:
You look for eagle hypogriffe modeling
cool technic, just a crit : wings have so much featherrrrrrr horribleeeeeee (500000000000000000 faces / 2 wings lol)
and your model seems to have few feather...no?

good luck man !
CGtalk BIRD RuleZ !!!:thumbsup:

[Joril]

Manicalavera15: Thanks for the comments :)
The feathers alone make for 10192 faces per wing - unsmoothed.
I had to get my calculator and sum up the faces layer per layer to get to the total number because my computer can't render them all realtime.
And to think I even simpified the feather somewhere along the way.

[Mandrake]

oo this is coming really good! I like modelling and I particulary
like a pose. Keep it up..

[deivys20]

hey man, great piece of modeling. I really like your character. keep it up. :thumbsup: I am looking forward to see the textures on that beast.

[Joril]

Thanks for the comments guys! I appreciate it. :thumbsup:

I've been experimenting with colours, aside from: playing Warcraft III, studying, being put back on decaffeïne and not sleeping very well, this is what I have got this far.
I've been working on the bumps too, note that they are incomplete. Only the main body is bumpmapped and various bodyparts have not been welded together yet. Like the arms and the "dreads".
I used about the same kind of colour sceme as the Aztecs used for Quetzalquatl, anyway, I hope I used the right image because I didn't name it :D
I hope you like it.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/colour6.jpg

[OZ]

WAAA!GREAT!!! ..........hey Joril This guy is amazing!:buttrock:

[Joril]

Ok, this challenge is nearing it's end and so I face the final curtain.
I weighted and rigged the model, but due to the high polycount fo the model and a wimpy computer, I didn't get to giving it a final pose. So accept my apologies for that.
I'm looking forward to the next challenge(s). :D

Here's my final picture.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/compofinal1.jpg


[edit]:I changed the final pic with a smaller one for fast viewing, for high res pic, see:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/compofinal.jpg

[levius]

Great idea about these legs/hands ! Congratulation for finishing the challenge :thumbsup:

[Joril]

Thanks, Levius and -OZ- too of course.
I wonder if the pic would have been better if I removed the colours though. Seems to be a common phenomenon. But so is GI ;)

[erilaz]

WAAA! Can't get your images to come up!

[Joril]

Hmm, sorry about that, the image is kinda big, about 266kb. With a little patience it should show up.
I'll change the above picture with a lower res version and post a link to the high res version.

High res final image:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/Taskmaster/compofinal.jpg

[erilaz]

Dang it! I can't even get it to connect with a download manager. Booh! I'll try tommorrow morning!! I wanna see this pic!

[CHRiTTeR]

Great, like your style!

very good use of colors, like that combination :beer:

Gegroet,
CHRiTTeR

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