Which high end Work station brand?

[adren@line]

one of the Boxx reps posts on this board.

I forgot who, search around.

[GregHess]

Why don't you email boxx with any concerns you might have?

I whole heartedly recommend them, and know you'll be more then pleased with their service and support.

[dmeyer]

Go Boxx.

We've got Dell Precision Workstations at work and they are a nightmare.

[JeffPatton]

I'm in the same boat. Will be purchasing a new system ASAP instead of building another one. I've read nothing but positive comments on BOXX systems, and I think that's the route I will take. They seem a bit pricey to me though. Maybe if enough people from CGtalk buy PC's from them we can get a discount? :shrug:

[dmeyer]

Originally posted by folical9
I'm in the same boat. Will be purchasing a new system ASAP instead of building another one. I've read nothing but positive comments on BOXX systems, and I think that's the route I will take. They seem a bit pricey to me though. Maybe if enough people from CGtalk buy PC's from them we can get a discount? :shrug:

Call a sales rep and talk. A friend of mine specced a Dell and a Boxx on the web of identical components, and the Boxx was a bit more. He then called the Boxx rep and told him this, and he worked out a better price.

Doesnt hurt to call. :thumbsup:

[Valkyrien]

or just wait for a BOXX rep to show up in this thread...;)

[theboykidney]

Besides Boxx, is there any other brand that oozes quality?

[GregHess]

Not in the DCC/CG industry...

There are other premiere workstation brands, but their specialties lie elsewhere.

Boxx was building and selling workstations before dell even had a workstation line...

The way I see it, you have three primary choices. You can either spend countless hours learning about computer hardware, eventually coming up with a system spec after visiting tons of forums verifying and reverifying your selection, and build and troubleshoot your own workstation. This is the cheapest in physical cost, and the most expensive in time.

You can go with a mainstream computer maker. Like Dell. Minimal time will be spent specing, because you don't have alot of choices. Then you just have to cross your fingers and hope you never have an issue, or the fellow in India that your on hold for 3 hours with, actually payed attention in his english class.

You can go with a specialty manufacturer. Like Boxx. You might spend a bit more on the system initally, but its not for the hardware, its for the support. Your paying for the right and privledge of speaking to someone who knows what their talking about, and has english and their primary language :).

[Ed Caracappa]

And here's the BOXX guy! Feel free to email me ed@boxxtech.com or call 877-877-2699 ext 313 in the US or 512-225-6313. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

Ed

[Valkyrien]

see? told ya he'd come;) like moths to a porch lightbulb:D:D

[private]

Originally posted by GregHess
Then you just have to cross your fingers and hope you never have an issue, or the fellow in India that your on hold for 3 hours with, actually payed attention in his english class.


That's a pretty rude and pompous thing to say.

[Ed Caracappa]

I'll take that as a compliment :thumbsup:

[theboykidney]

Hi Ed!
You got a UK counterpart?

Who would you say is your biggest competitor?!!! Cheeky, I know, but you have to shop around, cant go spending that amount of money without the proper research!

[Ed Caracappa]

Outside the US we sell through a small but, talented reseller network. You can contact:

European RAID Arrays, Ltd.
Hundred End House Hundred End Lane Hesketh Bank United Kingdom
Website: http://www.e-raid.co.uk
Contact Person: Sales
Phone: 01772 814888
Email: Sales@e-raid.co.uk

Reality Computing
Home Farm Shere Road Albury Surrey GU5 9BL United Kingdom
Website: http://www.realitycomputing.com
Contact Person: Simon Walker
Phone: 01483 202051
Email: sales@realitycomputing.com

As far as competition goes, we run up against Dell and HP most often. Alienware is another company to consider. If you're shopping on price alone, Dell and HP usually offer some great incentives (at least in the US) for the purchase of a single machine.

Part of the value we bring to the table is our focus. Digital content creation is really the only market we play in. We've been focused on DCC from our earliest days and have designed all our systems from the ground up to accomodate the needs of this market. We design and manufacture all our chassis' for ease of access, optomized air-flow, tool-less part removal, and on and on. Additionally, our tech support folks know this market and know the applications our customers use. All in all, these bits and pieces allow us to compete very well against Tier I competition.

Hope this help!

Ed

[GregHess]

Originally posted by private
That's a pretty rude and pompous thing to say.

Guess you haven't called mainstream techsupport lately.

Its not rude or pompous, its the truth. Tech support's being outsourced to India, where they pay a bunch of poor fella's a dollar or so an hour to answer phone calls and flip through the little troubleshooting book. Its not their fault, they need money, and the big companies (Dell, Gateway, etc) are capitalist pigs, looking for any way to save a few bucks.

Then of course thats our fault too, since everyone wants 3 ghz+ performance for under 500 bucks.

Sorry if that offends you, but I'm not making it up.

[dmeyer]

Originally posted by Valkyrien
see? told ya he'd come;) like moths to a porch lightbulb:D:D

LOL. :buttrock:

Not to hijack the thread or anything, PM a reply if you wish but...

Do any BOXX users have any thoughts on the noise level of the machine? I'm also considering one and i really need something nice and quiet.

Thanks

[dmeyer]

Originally posted by GregHess
Guess you haven't called mainstream techsupport lately.

Its not rude or pompous, its the truth. Tech support's being outsourced to India, where they pay a bunch of poor fella's a dollar or so an hour to answer phone calls and flip through the little troubleshooting book. Its not their fault, they need money, and the big companies (Dell, Gateway, etc) are capitalist pigs, looking for any way to save a few bucks.

Then of course thats our fault too, since everyone wants 3 ghz+ performance for under 500 bucks.

Sorry if that offends you, but I'm not making it up.

Greg's right...the overall tech support level in the industry is going right down the drain. I'd rather chew my own arm off than try to communicate with Dell tech support.

[Ed Caracappa]

Just verified that we're running under 50dba on our higher end dual processor configs. To my rock-n-roll damaged ears this is really quiet:buttrock: I've been checking around but, can't find anyone quoting a dba level for their workstations. If anyone can find a dba spec on a competitors site I'd love to see one.

[JeffPatton]

Here's a helpful link about PC noise levels:
http://www.neoseeker.com/Hardware/faqs/kb/3,19.html

apologies if this is going OT. However fan noise level is a concern for my new system as well.

[Ed Caracappa]

That's great stuff! I'm still trying to find a spec on any competitors site that give a noise spec for dual processor workstations. Can't find a one....

Ed

[theboykidney]

hmmm, it seems that Boxx almost have it in the bag for me, although still investigating....my latest lead brings me to www.savrow.com seem pretty good, but havnt heard anything about them.
Has anyone out there?

[powerwave3d]

At work here, we have a contract with Dell and run the high end Precision machines and they are CRAP!
Took a few weeks and explaining but managed to get 3 BOXX machines ordered last week:) Can't wait to get them in here.

[dmeyer]

Originally posted by Ed Caracappa
Just verified that we're running under 50dba on our higher end dual processor configs. To my rock-n-roll damaged ears this is really quiet:buttrock: I've been checking around but, can't find anyone quoting a dba level for their workstations. If anyone can find a dba spec on a competitors site I'd love to see one.

I have a dual G5 that i would regard as extremely quiet, so I went looking for data on how loud it was to use for comparison. I found this PDF on the apple site that seems to list it as < 48 dB idle and < 55dB under load. ( on page 4 near the bottom)


http://a1984.g.akamai.net/7/1984/51/670415dd186633/www.apple.com/about/environment/design/env_attributes/pdf/apes_pmg5_8-11-03D.pdf

I'd say that the Boxx is probably suitable quiet then.

:)

[dvornik]

Best thing about Boxx is that they care about their reputation here. If you have a problem with their machines - just mention it here and see what happens.

Their noise levels are allright, there were some complaints a couple of years ago and it was fixed.

Make no mistake, though - you can built a machine just like that much cheaper. And there are other vendors (not Dell though) that make decent machines and provide good support without specifically targeting this community.

Greg's indian support remark may have sounded demeaning but it's true to the facts. Support suffers greatly from outsourcing.

[JakobG]

You might also want to check out Armari at http://www.armari.co.uk

They also have specialisation in building high-power workstations, more for 3dsmax than maya, but they do cater for all... from your bog standard p4's to the latest opterons etc.

They're also very good for customisation... I ended up with a computer which I bought just before I started getting into 3d, and it ended up being really good for 3d work anyway!

If you do contact them, you may be able to get a better deal if you ask for Paresh Patel and let them know JakobG sent you... although obviously that's up to you. :D

Oh, and they're based in the UK!

[Joel.Hooks]

We switched to BOXX may of last year. I can't say enough good things about them. :thumbsup:

[PixelVampire]

Hey! BOXX MAN!!! What are my options if I am in Switzerland????

[Ed Caracappa]

Clint Welden, who works for me, manages all our International Sales and resellers. His direct line is 512-225-6308 and his email is cwelden@boxxtech.com. He'll take good care of you.

Ed

[FloydBishop]

Hey Ed, I'm in the market for a new kick ass desktop workstation. I just sent you an email.

Can I buy online, or do I have to go brick and mortar? I'm in San Diego, California.

My mail to you bounced back! I'll try again...

[davijin]

I have a dell precision 650 workstation. It works ok but can get loud after a while. mostly because of the huge fans that are needed to cool dual zeons. Its done me well but If I had a chance to trade for a BOXX machine I would.

[dmeyer]

Originally posted by davijin
I have a dell precision 650 workstation. It works ok but can get loud after a while. mostly because of the huge fans that are needed to cool dual zeons. Its done me well but If I had a chance to trade for a BOXX machine I would.

There's an idea...an "I Got Delled" promo.

Trade in your Dell Precision for a price break on a BOXX.

:applause:

[Ed Caracappa]

Floyd,
Call me Monday 877-877-2699 ext 313. I'll hook you up!
Ed

[Ed Caracappa]

dmeyer,
I love it! Not that I want to fight with Dell. They have their place in this market but, that is still a very cool idea!
Thanks,
Ed

[PixelVampire]

Guys not to ruffle any feathers but where does the G5 fit in?

I hear lot of talk from Mac users that creatives are moving back to Apple ...is this true or wishfull thinking on Apple users part?

[Valkyrien]

that would probably be Mac users tooting their own horns, though I may be mistaken:)

even the G5s are only pushing about 1.5Ghz per chip, so a comparably priced Dual Xeon box will get you dual 3.0Ghz chips at around the same price, plus the Xeons have that nice SSE2 intruction set that comes in handy ;)

[JeffPatton]

I have a dell precision 650 workstation. It works ok but can get loud after a while. mostly because of the huge fans that are needed to cool dual zeons. Its done me well but If I had a chance to trade for a BOXX machine I would.

I just purchased a BOXX system (dual 3.2 Xeons). The fans are quite loud on it as well. It's not as loud as my home built system, but it is noiser than I expected it to be. I don't think it's louder than any other dual 3.2 system would be at this point since these chips produce so much heat. I suppose it would be nice if a company offered water cooling in lieu of these loud fans, but I doubt any manufacturers would want that liability though.

I guess it has a lot to do with your environment too. If I were in a busy office, I wouldn't notice the fan noise as much. If you're working from a quiet home office like me, I would recommend a dual 3.06 system since it should be much quieter.

Jeff

[FloydBishop]

Originally posted by Ed Caracappa
Floyd,
Call me Monday 877-877-2699 ext 313. I'll hook you up!
Ed

What time zone are you in? I'm on the west coast.

[Ed Caracappa]

CST so I'm two hours later than you.
Ed

[thomaspecht]

another fine workstation brand that i'd consider was IBM with it's intellistation line.
i remember these machines (m pro) as very stable, not particular noisy and overall very well put together, especially the cooling of a dual machine was pretty neat. unfortunately my experiences with these machines are based on models that were current in '99 - 2001.

[mayakindaguy]

About the xeon fans, I think it's cause the fans are the stock hsf, which are known to create quie a stir. I believe it's the same issue with the opterons as well. Just wondering Ed are the hsfs in the BOXX systems stock and if so is there an option to include a different brand? I can't remember the site, but there was a company that sold specialized hsfs specifically for these loud xeons and opterons.

[Ed Caracappa]

We spent a LOT of time on this as the stock fans and sinks just don't cut it for our customers. I'm happy to share with all of you that we are using an AJIGO heatsink (MF047-04X) with a JMC 60x38mm low speed fan. This is on XEONs only. We've found we get the best thermal/noise results with this combination.

I know people have called this solution noisey but, I don't think you'll find anything much quiter in the competitive market.

Ed

[mayakindaguy]

Nice and good to hear somebody cares. lol. I personally haven't tested any of these hsfs and cannot attest to them personally as I have not been able to make it to the highend dual cpu rigs yet. However, I will say this. Fan noise is often very subjective from person to person. Some will complain about a slight hum and feel that it sounds like the cry of a banshee while others are quite content. For example there are those that complain about WD Raptors being noisy for some reason, saying there is a high pitched whir when booting and clicking sounds when loading. Now I personally find it quiet and the slight sound at boot up is practically inexistant IMO and click isn't the best word to accurately describe that sound although I don't know what is. Well, I guess the point is that sound tolerance simply varies from individual to individual and moving parts aren't going to be completely silent. Perhaps someday we'll all have our computers stuck in a refriderator and be complaining about the light builb going out when we open the case. Hmmmmm not a bad idea actually. Refridejacomp. I like the sound of that.

[maninflash]

Regarding dual setup, fans and noise; Guys, that's why God created Head Phones!

[Pixelmaestro]

I purchased a IBM Z Pro Intellistation. I was cranking on the processor hard and had a blow out. I called support and they sent out an onsite tech with new parts the next day.

I did not find out anything on the website about Boxx warranties, but my warranty with IBM and service was worth every penny. Just something to consider if you have major deadlines looming all the time.

[davijin]

Originally posted by maninflash
Regarding dual setup, fans and noise; Guys, that's why God created Head Phones!

I got 4.1 surround sound on my comp why would I wanna screw that up with some headphones. and even if I didnt have good sound dual processor fans scream louder than a refigerator sometimes, regular headphones wouldnt block it out.

I did not find out anything on the website about Boxx warranties, but my warranty with IBM and service was worth every penny.

BoXX has warranties like every other company. Ive seen them on their site. Im not big on warranties myself though cuz im more of a do it yourself guy. but when my mom bought a compaq in 98 the warranty did come in handy because it broke 9 times in like a 2 year span. :cry: my point: DONT buy compaq/HP cuz they break easy.

[Ed Caracappa]

You'll find a link to our workstation warranty at the bottom of this page. http://www.boxxtech.com/asp/1workstations.asp

[Cman]

Originally posted by davijin
I have a dell precision 650 workstation. It works ok but can get loud after a while. mostly because of the huge fans that are needed to cool dual zeons. Its done me well but If I had a chance to trade for a BOXX machine I would.

Does your Dell really work well? I'm seriously considering turning off one processor to see if it helps speed up the dang thing!

I'm having serious redraw problems, long timeframes to open programs, and sometimes renders don't seem any faster than a Dell 800Mhz system I use on my desk!

The main difference between the system I use at work and yours is I have a Quadro FX 1000 card. Do you think that could muck things up?

Not just poor redraw but slow operation?

[davijin]

Originally posted by Cman
Does your Dell really work well? I'm seriously considering turning off one processor to see if it helps speed up the dang thing!

I'm having serious redraw problems, long timeframes to open programs, and sometimes renders don't seem any faster than a Dell 800Mhz system I use on my desk!

The main difference between the system I use at work and yours is I have a Quadro FX 1000 card. Do you think that could muck things up?

Not just poor redraw but slow operation?

mine works pretty good. I get slow redraw sometimes but mostly because ive ate up too much ram and or the program is fragmented across the harddrive. plus I have a bunch of background apps going as well like viruscan,firewall,irc etc. abiyt the long timeframes for opening programs some programs are gonna take long to load on any comp especially 3d progs like maya or 2d progs like photoshop. The load speeds on my comp have improved from my old 850 mhz p3 but maya still takes like 6 secs to load. assuming you have win xp pro - you may be able to speed up your loads and stuff by getting rid of some of the xp stuff that slows down your comp. you can do this by going to display properties and changing the display mode to classic windows. that should give you system a little boost. turning a processor off will probably slow your comp down even more so I wouldnt do that. I would recommend going to the Bios and changing some stuff like turning HT on and make sure the drive speed is at its max.

[Cman]

Thanks. I finally figured it out!

I had Roxio 6 loaded on there and I discovered, while going through and turning off processes, that when RxMon.exe and DrgtoDsc.exe were off everything went faster.
So I opened the program file and put a "_" in front of both prog names and found that everytime I moved a file Windows tried to run Roxio.
I think Roxio was scanning every file and program to see if it should be involved somehow.

Anyway, now that I've deleted Roxio everything seems great! :thumbsup:

[gustojunk]

Interesting topic, I wanted to jump in since I notice that Ed Caracappa from Boxx is here.

I remember bringing out some of my Dell frustrations with the quality of my M60 and the not so great support, and I remember wishing for a mobile Boxx to ever hit the market.

Well, I'm looking at upgrading my laptop this Fall and I was looking at the GoBoxx, it's very nice BUT it has 2 huge flaws and I can't figure out why:

1. NO Nvidia Quadro FX card (which means no CG shaders, no Maxtreme for Max and ATI open GL problem with Rhino3D)

2. the screen rez of only 1680 x 1050. Why not 1920x1200??? I much rather have a 15.4" screen with 1920x1200 than a 17" lwith 1680 x 1050. It's about pixel COUNT not pixel SIZE.

Being this a machine for 3D artist these 2 no-nos seem to me make very little sense. Do I have any hope to see these features in a GoBoxx by the Fall?

Thanks,

Gustavo

[Ed Caracappa]

Gustavo,

I would have liked nothing better than being able to introduce GoBOXX with a higher screen resolution and nvidia graphics. Neither of these was possible if we were to hit our planned introduction. The decision to launch was made knowing that at introduction, we wouldn't satisfy 100% of the markets requirements.

As with all our products, GoBOXX has a great roadmap and we will continue to introduce ever improving specifications and feature sets.

Ed

[status quo]

2. the screen rez of only 1680 x 1050. Why not 1920x1200??? I much rather have a 15.4" screen with 1920x1200 than a 17" lwith 1680 x 1050. It's about pixel COUNT not pixel SIZE.

I demand the larger screen.

the resolution seems fine.

i'd be more intrensted in a better quality screen than resolution.

a better graphics card is always welcome.

you better buying a desktop if you feel laptops don't offer enough performance.

if i was in the market for a laptop i would buy a GoBOXX.

:thumbsup:

[Joel Hooks]

Originally posted by Ed Caracappa
As with all our products, GoBOXX has a great roadmap and we will continue to introduce ever improving specifications and feature sets.

Ed

I would like my complimentary GoBOXX to be configured with the subwoofer option please.

Please refer to posting here. (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1095257&highlight=goboxx#post1095257)

Thanks Ed!

[Ed Caracappa]

It's true what they say...great minds think alike! I've been pushing for this since I came to BOXX over two years ago so I can't give you all the credit :) Call me if you're looking to buy one and I'll make sure you get a deal...

Ed

[JDaniel]

Whatcha think, dual AMD or dual Intel Boxx?

[gustojunk]

Originally posted by Ed Caracappa
Gustavo,

As with all our products, GoBOXX has a great roadmap and we will continue to introduce ever improving specifications and feature sets.

Ed

Thanks for the reply Ed. It's good to hear that at least you guys are aware that those 2 things I mentioned are major shortcoming for a laptop for CG. I look forward to see what's coming for this Fall.

BTW one of those Dual Core 64 bit athlons would be nice, especially since by then Windows 64bit should be out and I expect 3DSmax and the other big boys to follow suit pretty much right after.

And since you are here, one more thing, I think you guys should also look into making a nice tablet PC also with some real pixels in it, a great looking LCD and a decent size, like 15-17", and not the crap that's out there just for Doctors' offices.

Now, if the touchscreen with a swiveling hinge is an option for a super pimped out Goboxx with that screen rez and quadro card that I mentioned, then we are talking!! I'd be happy to design one for you guys :p

Gustavo

[Silvermyst]

This seems like the perfect thread to post this :)
Ed, sorry to ask this since you seem to be getting swamped :D but, if I said to you I could get an Alienware with the following specs:
MJ-12™ 3200 Extreme
Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional
Enermax EG651P-VE 24P 550 Watt Power Supply
Dual Intel® Xeon Processors 2.8GHz 533MHz FSB w/ 512KB Cache
Supermicro X5DAL-TG2 - Intel E7505 Chipset Motherboard
NVIDIA Quadro® FX 3000 256MB 8x AGP w/Dual DVI
AlienIce™ Video Cooling System
2GB DDR PC-2100 SDRAM Registered ECC - 2 x 1024MB
73.4GB (36.7GB x 2) Western Digital Raptor™ 10,000 RPM HDDs
Lite-On 16x DVD / 52x32x52x CD-RW Drive
Plextor PX-712A 12x DVD±R/W Drive
Creative Sound Blaster® Audigy 2 ZS High Definition 7.1 Surround
(that's all that's important)

for US$4,634.00

And the closest BOXX equivilent I could come up with was:

3DBOXX 8106
Microsoft Windows/
Serial ATA Hard Drives
Dual XEON DP 2.8GHz, 512k cache, 533MHz FSB
2GB DDR266 ECC (2 DIMMS)
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000 256mb DDR
73.4GB (2x36.7GB) 10,000rpm Serial ATA RAID 0 Array
CDRW/DVD Combo 48x24x48x16 w/ NTI CD Maker and powerDVD
8x DVD+/-R, 4x DVD+/-RW, 12x DVDROM, 24x CD-R/RW, 40x CD-ROM
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS (7.1 Surround)
WinXP Professional

for USD$6,496.00

I was wondering why there's such a big difference in price. I've heard nothing but excellent things about BOXX workstations (just look at this thread for example), and I havent heard too much about Alienware systems. And just FYI I'd be using it for programs like 3ds Max 6 and Photoshop mainly.

Thanks :)

[Ed Caracappa]

Silvermyst

I'm only too happy to try and answer your question! What you have from us is International Pricing, not US pricing. That's why there is a difference between us and Alienware. Outside the United States, we do business via a reseller channel. The higher prices reflect the costs associated with taxes, duties, shipping, etc that the reseller has to pay for importing the system. It's always a good idea to deal directly with the reseller in your area as they will be providing you pre and post sales support as necessary. In Australia, our reseller is H-Digital. They have three locations as follows:

H-Digital Pty Ltd.
L1 101 Scarborough Street Southport QLD 4215 Australia
Website: http://www.h-digital.com.au
Phone: 07 5503 0277
Email: sales@h-digital.com.au

H-Digital Pty Ltd.
Suite 31/37-39 Albert Road Melbourne VIC 3004 Australia
Website: http://www.h-digital.com.au
Phone: 03 9820 4555
Email: sales@h-digital.com.au

H-Digital Pty Ltd.
3/1 Ridge Street North Sydney, NSW 2060 Australia
Website: http://www.h-digital.com.au
Phone: 02 9929 0222
Email: sales@h-digital.com.au


I honestly don't know how Alienware conducts business outside the US or if they even do business in Australia. I do know that if you go to their US site, you can configure and price systems with EU pricing (there is a link in the upper left nav bar on their home page) which is significantly higher than their US prices.

Tier I companies like Dell, HP, IBM, etc are able to maintain International prices closer to US prices since they have manufacturing facilities around the world. This allows them to avoid all the duties and other import fees (like shipping).

Give our reseller a call. Write back to me at ed@boxxtech.com if there is anything at all I can do to help you.

Ed

[Silvermyst]

Thanks a bunch Ed! Gonna go try find out some more, get a quote from H-Digital etc.

Also, just out of curiosity, how do you think a dual proc boxx workstation's cooling would handle the disturbing heat of australian summers? :) Thinking along the lines of ~30 C (86 F). Would you think I'd need some sort of extra cooling to handle extra long rendering periods?

Thanks again. Quickest service i've seen and I'm not even a customer :D

[Joel Hooks]

BOXX is located in Austin, Texas. Your summers sound like the arctic compared to Texas :P

Or, to answer your question from a user point of view - they do very well.

[Ed Caracappa]

Your welcome! I'm only too happy to try and help. As for cooling, in simple terms, you'll be fine. Our chassis cools very well.

[Silvermyst]

Thank you both very muchly. Now all I need to do is come to terms with the fact that I'm gonna need to shell out ~$6-7000 (AUD) for one of these babys :buttrock:

[theboykidney]

Well its been a while, but we are now ready to make our order with Boxx! either tomorrow or monday we will be the proud owners of new boxxes. :applause:

Cheers to all who contributed to this thread, I dont think anything other than Boxx had a real chance at the end of the day!

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