Question: Non Square Textures

[BiTMAP]

i don't quite get what your saying, you should prolly post some images.. But i'll gladly help when i understand, if i can.

[TRyanD]

??

[pseudoBug]

Ok, Maybe this will help.

I'm modeling a toony sword, and I'd like to use a taller texure, because of the fact that I need more vertical space for the blade.

If I select the blade, which is fairly flat, and hit planar map with a tiling checker pattern material aplied. It will map the uv's perfectly in 1:1 ratio, and looks great right?

See here

http://www.tinysuperbug.com/hosted/nonsquare1.jpg

Now, if instead, I have my 128x256 texture applied, the uv area is no longer square, thus not 1:1 and the uv's for the blade are squashed as in this picture.

http://www.tinysuperbug.com/hosted/nonsquare2.jpg

What is the best way to work around this problem? Is it a problem? or do I just not know something?

Thanks again

[Titan]

ok I barely understand what youre asking...but I'll offer this...

first off, the shape of your textures maps greatly depend on the capabilities of your targeted 3D engine.
Most game engines read textures as a power of 2.
example: 128x128, 256x256, 512x512..... done mostly for faster processing reasons.

so if you dont actually intend for your model to be utilised in a game engine then make your textures whatever shape you want.

secondly, it would be to your benefit, assuming you are building a low poly character and weapon, to stick with standard practices and procedures....why not go ahead and spend the time doing it the generally accepted way. It'll only help your portfolio in the end.

third, it makes since to utilise your texture space more efficiently. what I mean is if you can fit the sword or weapon texture onto the same map as the body then do it, if only to expedite processing speeds. if the weapon needs its own texture map, dont make a 512x512 map(exaggerated example) for a sword that is only gonna appear 10 pixels tall on the screen, you can easily conserve space by using a 64x64, or 128x128 texture size.

fourth, from what I can tell of youre texture map, you just need to scale the object UV to fit inside the map, no need to use a taller texture....unwrap the sword, layout the pieces on a square texture in the most efficient way without stretching the mesh, and you should be good to go.....

not trying to sound condescending or anything, I really hope that helps....I know texturing can be a pain to learn.

[BiTMAP]

why not just make the blade thinner and such, leaving room for the other side and the hilt in the same 256² map?

[pseudoBug]

@Titan: Don't worry I know your just trying to help. Not to contradict you or anything, but I was under the impression, and have seen games that do utilize non 1:1 square texture maps, and I figured that since I wanted the blade to have more or as much detail as the hilt/grip/pommel areas, than I would model this assuming I was using one of those engines. (Which could very well be few and far between.) I do however hear what your saying about modeling within industry standards.

As it is, if I do go with a 1:1 square map, The pommel/guard/hilt will get much more detail than the blade, due to the fact that the blade is not going to take up much space. That's not what I was shooting for.

I also was modeling this as if it was a standalone object, not something assigned to a character, so there is no character map to speak of.

I guess I'm not very good expaining what it is I'm trying to get accross, if you just barely understand.

Basicly, when the texture map is not square, as in the screenshot above, when you uv map something, it becomes squished, and thus you must scale it's width back out, if you want it without stretching. I'm simply wondering if it is possible to work with non square textures, and not have to rework the uv's. Hope this helps people understand what it is I'm asking.

I do appreciate your comments though. Thanks.

@BiTMAP: I'm not sure exactly how narrowing the blad would help. I'm trying to increase detail on the blade, hence the taller map.

[BiTMAP]

becuase, you'd be shrinking the entire mapping, if you just made it shorter then you get distortion, but i have another idea. why not rotate it in your 256² map 45 degree's from corner to corner. would that not give you as much area? and perhaps even an easier time to texture?

[Phasmatis]

I know the Unreal Engine can do odd textures; for instance with your blade I personally would use a 64x128 texture or even a 32x128. As long as each dimension is to the power of 2 it shouldn't matter.

[mindrot]

turn off use custom bitmap size.... this might help you.....

Click on show options at the bottom of the uvw editor, and then look to the bottom left of the editor....

Hope this helps..... otherwise ignor me... 'cause I might of missunderstood what you want :P

[pseudoBug]

@BiTMAP: I have thought about the corner to corner thing, but when working with textures, up and down, left to right is best due to the fact that that's the way pixels work. Diagonal tends to be more work.

@Phasmatis: Thanks for the input. Now, when you do work with a non uniform texture, do you also have to rescale width due to the aspect ratio being different? I'd like to AIM you some time if at all possible to discuss this if I can't resolve this.

@mindrot: I've tried that, and all it seems to do is stretch the 1:2 texture out to 1:1 proportions, and then the uv's look right, but not in comparison to the texture. (am I making any sense?)

I did finally get it uv'd, but it took much more time to scale everything to the right proportions due to the fact that when I map something, it is squashed left to right. I applied a tile pattern to my texture in photoshop first, as tiling one in max does not work because it gives me a 1:1 square texture box to lay out uv's.
I guess all this hand tweaking might simply be the only way when it comes to non 1:1 textures.

Here's a quick texture:
http://www.tinysuperbug.com/hosted/toonsword1.jpg

[Phasmatis]

Yeah, map it as if you are using a square texture then if you're using texporter you can then input your dimensions and the texture should be squashed to how you want it.

I don't use any messengers they tend to annoy me sorry. You seem to be on the right track now anyway. :)

So you map it like this
Click Me. (http://www.ghostworld.btinternet.co.uk/BladeUV1.jpg)

I then used texporter with 32 as the width and 128 as the height and I ended up with this. click Me. (http://www.ghostworld.btinternet.co.uk/BladeUV2.jpg)

[Tahl'eN]

Looks nice. I assume 'toony was the intent.

As far as non 1:1 textures go, from what I understand, they're used all the time. Especially on non-PC platforms where ram is an absolute premium. Just make sure both dimentions are power of 2 (though I have heard some odd stories about the PS1).

The trick to making them work right in the UV editor is to scale the UVs properly. So with your 128x256 map, you need to scale the horizontal up by 2. In Maya this is a fairly easy feat, but it's been a while since I poked around in Max. Maybe someone can give us a tip on how to scale a specific ammount in Max?

[pseudoBug]

@Phasmatis: Yeah I don't really use messengers either, I do however have an old version of AIM around just in case I ever need to. Thanks for the tips.

@Tahl'eN: Yep toony was what I was aiming for. Doh! *slaps forhead* Why didnt' I think of that! I checked, and I'm not sure if max standard uv tools has it, but I use Chuggnuts Script tools, and It has a scale input box, easy as pie. Thanks!

[cris castro]

turn off use custom bitmap size then just scale your proyection to get the good proportion and after apply a checker to check uv deformation and export with texporter in square ratios , if that what you mean

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