TechnicallyArtistic
03-11-2004, 10:48 AM
Ok, so here's an issue that's been kicking me in the face.
I need to create a toon effect for 3d characters for animation. And before you say Tomcat, Expressive Effects or the NPR shader with that Anime girl on the bed example stop there, because I've explored them (at least I think I have.)
What I need the shader to do is seperate the light cast on a model to a shadow and midtone and a highlight. And not necisarily a real highlight, but rather than the shade gradualy falling across that object have three seperate degrees of that. I need it to be from the light, because the models need to be textured and animate also, and continue to look 2D.
Any of the NPR shaders I've tried seem to simply supliment for the light. Like I can chose a shadow and midtone and a highlight color, but it seems those are the colors I'm stuck with no mater the light intesity. That it doesn't change the shade, the tint or the color of the shadow, but rather just increase it's coverage, which doesn't work how I need it to.
Expressive Effects kinda does that, except the highlight is super funky and makes it look like it's shiny like a car.
For anybody that's seen Duex Pieds, that pretty close to the same thing I need, even though I know taht wasn't made in Maya.
Best I can figure if I can get an object put a texture on it, and for the 2D look you use only one or two lights at most at any one time. Then either on the material or light some how you have the light cast in three degrees of light rather than a gradual transition. just as iff you switched a three color ramp from linear to none, that would give me the 2d effect I'm going for.
Also, another theoretical option is to make a shader for the texture, with a flat shade, yet again one that reacts to light. then make something like the backlight shader on http://www.3dluvr.com/pixho/ and something similar and oposite to that for that shadows (hell if I know how) that might achive the look too. Then layer those some how and the highlight and the shadow would act as the highligh and shadow of the texture, but getting them to change the color of the texture rather than just covering it up with a partiay transparent color i'm not sure how to do. Nore how to get them to be the hard light I need them too, so they don't have that gradient look that says 3d.
I'm trying to do this without render passes for render time sake, and the more render efficient methods are what I'm going for.
We're trying out Renderman right now too, because the toon outlines look a lot better than any of the previously mentioned programs, especialy since the lines can taper off rather than being a constant width. Problem is we can't really figure out the program, so if anybody can walk us through on that, or point us in a direction to soembody who can, that would be greatly apreciated.
If what I'm trying to do can be done in any of those other packages tell me about that too. Though only if the line transition quality is decent. We're using poly models, so theres some of that, bad stair stepping shadow crap, but other programs do it better than some. Smoothing the models isn't a real option because it's going to bog down teh aniamtion and rendertime a lot (yes, proxy models, I know, not the answer I'm looknig for) and rendering at 2X resolution isn't an answer since we're going for an animation at HD TV Rez, and I really don't wnat to have to even try to double that.
These toon models have to blend into a 3d scene with other 3d characters, so we have issues with the lighting for both kinds that I'm sure we will be dealing with once we nail down a method for creating the look.
Oh, animating the ramp to change color or adding textures to the ramp colors Isn't an answer we're looknig for either. We've taken a look at that posibility and it just isn't reasonable to pursue.
Also, if anybody lives near Bellevue, WA, USA, and is interested in a project at all, contact me about that, cause we're still looking for specialist to help. I can give you more info if you're really interested, but ony if you're serious about joining on.
Thanks to anybody that can help! This has been a brain buster for a couple weeks. I know lightwave and 3D studio can do this better most likely, but think Maya! Cause I don't wana figure out how to switch all our premade content!
I know somebody has got to have an answer for this mess.
--Evil The Cat
I need to create a toon effect for 3d characters for animation. And before you say Tomcat, Expressive Effects or the NPR shader with that Anime girl on the bed example stop there, because I've explored them (at least I think I have.)
What I need the shader to do is seperate the light cast on a model to a shadow and midtone and a highlight. And not necisarily a real highlight, but rather than the shade gradualy falling across that object have three seperate degrees of that. I need it to be from the light, because the models need to be textured and animate also, and continue to look 2D.
Any of the NPR shaders I've tried seem to simply supliment for the light. Like I can chose a shadow and midtone and a highlight color, but it seems those are the colors I'm stuck with no mater the light intesity. That it doesn't change the shade, the tint or the color of the shadow, but rather just increase it's coverage, which doesn't work how I need it to.
Expressive Effects kinda does that, except the highlight is super funky and makes it look like it's shiny like a car.
For anybody that's seen Duex Pieds, that pretty close to the same thing I need, even though I know taht wasn't made in Maya.
Best I can figure if I can get an object put a texture on it, and for the 2D look you use only one or two lights at most at any one time. Then either on the material or light some how you have the light cast in three degrees of light rather than a gradual transition. just as iff you switched a three color ramp from linear to none, that would give me the 2d effect I'm going for.
Also, another theoretical option is to make a shader for the texture, with a flat shade, yet again one that reacts to light. then make something like the backlight shader on http://www.3dluvr.com/pixho/ and something similar and oposite to that for that shadows (hell if I know how) that might achive the look too. Then layer those some how and the highlight and the shadow would act as the highligh and shadow of the texture, but getting them to change the color of the texture rather than just covering it up with a partiay transparent color i'm not sure how to do. Nore how to get them to be the hard light I need them too, so they don't have that gradient look that says 3d.
I'm trying to do this without render passes for render time sake, and the more render efficient methods are what I'm going for.
We're trying out Renderman right now too, because the toon outlines look a lot better than any of the previously mentioned programs, especialy since the lines can taper off rather than being a constant width. Problem is we can't really figure out the program, so if anybody can walk us through on that, or point us in a direction to soembody who can, that would be greatly apreciated.
If what I'm trying to do can be done in any of those other packages tell me about that too. Though only if the line transition quality is decent. We're using poly models, so theres some of that, bad stair stepping shadow crap, but other programs do it better than some. Smoothing the models isn't a real option because it's going to bog down teh aniamtion and rendertime a lot (yes, proxy models, I know, not the answer I'm looknig for) and rendering at 2X resolution isn't an answer since we're going for an animation at HD TV Rez, and I really don't wnat to have to even try to double that.
These toon models have to blend into a 3d scene with other 3d characters, so we have issues with the lighting for both kinds that I'm sure we will be dealing with once we nail down a method for creating the look.
Oh, animating the ramp to change color or adding textures to the ramp colors Isn't an answer we're looknig for either. We've taken a look at that posibility and it just isn't reasonable to pursue.
Also, if anybody lives near Bellevue, WA, USA, and is interested in a project at all, contact me about that, cause we're still looking for specialist to help. I can give you more info if you're really interested, but ony if you're serious about joining on.
Thanks to anybody that can help! This has been a brain buster for a couple weeks. I know lightwave and 3D studio can do this better most likely, but think Maya! Cause I don't wana figure out how to switch all our premade content!
I know somebody has got to have an answer for this mess.
--Evil The Cat