Animated Debate over CG Butts

[TheWraith]

rediculous. you nurse off of a breast the first months of your life... and now it's just sinful to show a nipple on tv, but wait, not even that, now a cartoon butt is unacceptable. i'm just getting sick of all the censors. who really cares? it's just a body, just nature. and now we can't even see it in a cartoon.

[flipnap]

Sex is natural too but i wouldnt want to see it in the local mall.. I seriously doubt anybody at CBS said "Hey, that wasnt that bad, I mean, our mothers all have breasts too right?" From my point of view, who cares if they censor it, I dont wwann see anyones butt execpt my girls anyway.. no biggie here :hmm:

p.s. , it not sinful to show a nipple during the superbowl halftime, its against the law.

[Cullen]

Bugs bunny was naked.
Why all the fuss now?

[pseudoE]

to this I say:

http://www.spiral-scandinavia.com/catalog/flags/CF-0068.html?poster=Bart%20Simpson_Butt%20Shot%20Textile%20Poster

[swardson]

Sex is natural too but i wouldnt want to see it in the local mall.. I seriously doubt anybody at CBS said "Hey, that wasnt that bad, I mean, our mothers all have breasts too right?" From my point of view, who cares if they censor it, I dont wwann see anyones butt execpt my girls anyway.. no biggie here

I second that one flipnap.

there is already enough nudity out there that is easy to see, we dont need it shown on channels like CBS, NBC, etc. I say thank you CBS for your good judgement.:thumbsup:

[ShinChanPu]

Originally posted by musicraker
I second that one flipnap.

there is already enough nudity out there that is easy to see, we dont need it shown on channels like CBS, NBC, etc. I say thank you CBS for your good judgement.:thumbsup:

WHY YOU ARE NOT SO WORRIED ABOUT VIOLENCE OUT THERE,MAN??????

MINDS WHICH WORRIES ABOUT SHOWING A NIPPLE INSTEAD OF WARS, MURDERS, AND OTHER TYPES OF ABUSES LIKE MEN KIDNAPPED BY THE U.S GOVERNMENT... OR THINGS LIKE SHOWN AT "MY WEB" LINK (LOOK AT, PLEASE)... ARE NOFUNCTION MINDS!!!

:cry: :cry:

[sforsyth]

Man, is it just me? It seems everywhere I look americans can't do things the rest of the world takes for granted. (street protests being banned, not showing nudity anywhere unless warning about it seems to be the norm now (even for artwork!), blurring out of t-shirts on television shows, censorship of CARTOONS!)

It seems to be getting out of hand, I mean - CARTOONS!
:rolleyes:

Shin Chan Pu: I had a look at your site - my god!

[Lirgo]

America land of freedom!!

[feefunk]

well if anything, it's free advertising for that show.

And well it's not the first time something like that has happened (remember ReBoot and the monobreast?) and it most certainly won't be the last.

But yeah, I wonder how many times on the same episode that was censored, a character shoots another character...:rolleyes:


Some things are just too stupid to be understood.

[halo]

erm, im confused...why is it you cant see "buttocks" but in the early evening you can see actual footage of fatal police shootouts

[MCGrund]

Originally posted by Shin Chan Pu
WHY YOU ARE NOT SO WORRIED ABOUT VIOLENCE OUT THERE,MAN??????

MINDS WHICH WORRIES ABOUT SHOWING A NIPPLE INSTEAD OF WARS, MURDERS, AND OTHER TYPES OF ABUSES LIKE MEN KIDNAPPED BY THE U.S GOVERNMENT... OR THINGS LIKE SHOWN AT "MY WEB" LINK (LOOK AT, PLEASE)... ARE NOFUNCTION MINDS!!!

:cry: :cry:
Yeah, I totally agree with you Shin! When I look at this or other forums I find it very strange that you have to label images showing nudity whereas you don't have to label pictures showing full frontal violence. :surprised

About your weblink: Man, I already knew about this stuff. But seeing all these pictures makes one realize in what a sick world we live in.

[pgregory]

<SARCASM>
I totally agree, and while we're at it, let's ban art galleries. Art? Schmart! that Rubens fellow, no artist just a bl**dy perve! All those fat naked women, breasts and all! Burn them all, that's what I say. And don't get me started on Picasso, rubbish, guaranteed to ruin a young childs mind. Replace it all with more Arnie films, good old American violence, never hurt anyone.
</SARCASM>

It's a CARTOOOOON! :banghead: Get a life!

PaulG

[flipnap]

I would have have to say to these replies. Why bring up the issue of violence? You shouldnt divert the topic with another unrelated one, it doesnt follow logic. Secondly, taking the issue to the extreme is trite and presumptuous. Its like someone saying, "Lets make marijuana illegal" then someone else saying, sarcasticly "Oh sure, what next then we make aspirin illegal, where does it end!!!!".. And as far as Americans not doing what the rest of the world does, thats called "Culture" and you lack understanding of the very definition. Just because your country does something does not mean the rest of the world should do it. And Shin, first off, typing in all caps is considered shouting, and rude. Secondly who says we are not worried about violence? Telling me I have a "No function" mind because I didnt list all 200 of my greatest concerns for this planet paints you as a pompous and closed minded person. I could have just as easily have said to you, "Why are you so worried about violence when so many young kids are dying from drug addiction" .And finally, what does the fact that its a cartoon have to do with its subject matter? What if there was a porn cartoon that got banned. You couldnt then say, "Geez, its only a cartoon".. Im not comparing the censored but issue to the porn, they are very different, but the argument of saying, "Its only a cartoon" is illogical..

[playmesumch00ns]

I think what they're trying to get at is that to most people it seems slightly backward to be worrying about the danger kids (or even adults!) of catching a brief glimpse of a buttock or even--gasp--a covered nipple on TV while daddy's sitting next to them cleaning his M16.

Just seems backwards is all, but like you said, it's called cultural differences.

[daalex]

Euhm... i really don't want to offend anyone, but:
how can you really seriously defend the multi-million dollar reaction (public inquests, etc) after the totally innocuous Jackson-incident?
i can imagine that you don't want to allow nudity on prime time tv, but to go as far as this... is plain silly.
with the money that's been spent on stuff like that, you guys could have rebuilt half of... no, let's not go there. sorry.
couldn't help it.

live and let live, i suppose?

[flipnap]

how can you really seriously defend the multi-million dollar reaction

because it was a multimillion people reaction. Trust me, broadcasters dont give a hoot about morality, they love the money. With that much negative reaction by the public they couldnt afford to not take action. This wasnt the "man" trying to enforce policy, it was an outcry by the american public. The broadcasters couldnt afford NOT to listen. Appearantly the incident wasnt so innoculous to have gotten that many complaints.

[tjnyc]

Well it all comes down to money and politics. Conservatives need to beef up the issue, raise funding, strengthen their conservative base and make a name for themselves like McCarthy did with the communism which hunt and TV Networks don't want to lose ads dollar due because of boycotting from organizied groups that scare sponsors. The Media are always overblowing things like this for ratings.

In the end all parties that have agendas will use this Janet breast-gate to help their cause. The ones that lose out are the consumers and public, who are now being treated like children.

[flipnap]

In the end all parties that have agendas will use this Janet breast-gate to help their cause. The ones that lose out are the consumers and public, who are now being treated like children.

I second that.. very good post

[sforsyth]

I agree flipnap, this thread was not about violence.

On the other hand, neither was it about culture. It's about censorship in the land of the free. I think the problem most people have with it is that we all (3d artists) consider cartoons to be an art form, and nudity in art is not something we normally think of as erotic when presented as art. How many people would be turned on by a cg buttock here? Honestly?
I seriously doubt there are any artists who still snigger at the naked form, and certainly none who take offense at it. As for the public, well, the same rules apply. You don't have to be an artist to appreciate art.

As for your comments about me not understanding culture, well, I'm going to ignore it, as this is no place for a flame war and I'm really not interested in getting involved in one. I keep hearing how the culture of america is one of freedom of expression, but it seems everywhere I look it's being repressed. It was a thread about censorship, that's all.

[Valkyrien]

we see cartoon butts all the time!! just turn on The Simpsons, Futurama, Family Guy...not to mention real butts on NYPD Blue for example :rolleyes:

[flipnap]

Sean, with all due respect, I apologize if I came off sounding smug, it wasnt my intention to insult you. Your comment americans can't do things the rest of the world takes for granted was just a bit misleading. Put simply, grouping the "rest of the world" with your view points sounded as if you didnt understand the definiton of culture. the Gansu Province in China lives a lot different than Ireland, for example. Again I apologize if I offended you. ;)

[psyop63b]

Has anyone mentioned the excessive amounts of baby butts on those diaper commercials? And what about baby girls being shown topless on other commercials for baby products? It's nudy madness I tell ya! Tell that infant to cover up!

[sforsyth]

Hey, no problem. Like I said, I wasn't offended.
I totally agree, the "rest of the world" was far too vague a term.
I've lived 5 years in Denmark and a year and a half in Italy, so I'm not normally inclined to group places so easily. (in both places you'd be amazed at the amount of people who think you either don't speak English (as you come from Ireland), or conversely that you ARE in fact English, as Ireland is somehow mistakenly understood to be a small part of England).

Still though, I am surprised by what seems to be the ever increasing amount of censorship in the States.

[flipnap]

Still though, I am surprised by what seems to be the ever increasing amount of censorship in the States.

yeah so too am I, Its such a fine line, and like tjnyc said, theres a lotta political motivation across the issues.. one thing for sure, Its strange time were living in... " I only hope when the data is analyzed a weakness can be found, its not over yet"

[MCGrund]

Originally posted by flipnap
I would have have to say to these replies. Why bring up the issue of violence? You shouldnt divert the topic with another unrelated one, it doesnt follow logic.
Well, I brought up this issue or rather added up to it because imo it is indeed related to the topic of this thread. In a nutshell this thread is about a censored cg butt and thereby it is also about censorship in general. Therefore it is pretty logical to compare topics (nudity, violence) that might both be taken into consideration for censorship (in cg but also in other fields) and state ones own opinion about this issue.

[colkai]

It's always fascinated me that people scream like mad over the possibility of nudity, but nothing is thought of showing violence, blood and gore.

I guess the ideas is, no sex, be 'pure', but ya can beat the cr*p out of people 'cause that's acceptable.

Seems a little upside down to me, but then hey, I was a child of the 60's & 70's!

[onlooker]

Originally posted by Shin Chan Pu
WHY YOU ARE NOT SO WORRIED ABOUT VIOLENCE OUT THERE,MAN??????

MINDS WHICH WORRIES ABOUT SHOWING A NIPPLE INSTEAD OF WARS, MURDERS, AND OTHER TYPES OF ABUSES LIKE MEN KIDNAPPED BY THE U.S GOVERNMENT... OR THINGS LIKE SHOWN AT "MY WEB" LINK (LOOK AT, PLEASE)... ARE NOFUNCTION MINDS!!!

:cry: :cry:


First off that flash propaganda film was bad. Mostly because it's just that. propaganda. You should link to documentation instead if you want serious people to take it seriously. I have no doubts that none of those are actual iraqi babies.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not based true factual information, but the approach is catered to bring in weak minded idiots that are extremely gullible, and can not think well on their own.
It's also liked to a total, anti america, anti bush propaganda site. That does not help it's credibility at all.
My 2¢

[ShinChanPu]

Originally posted by onlooker
First off that flash propaganda film was bad. Mostly because it's just that. propaganda. You should link to documentation instead if you want serious people to take it seriously. I have no doubts that none of those are actual iraqi babies.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not based true factual information, but the approach is catered to bring in weak minded idiots that are extremely gullible, and can not think well on their own.
It's also liked to a total, anti america, anti bush propaganda site. That does not help it's credibility at all.
My 2¢

Much less than Bush´s explanations about the attacks to Afghanistan and Iraq.... the terrorism... the chemical/nuclear weapons inside Iraq (such a shame!!!!).

And for your information:
-That website is not against EE.UU, but G. W. Bush.
-EE.UU is ONLY a country of America.

[parallax]

Its not about the nipple incident, its about censorship. And its about double standards, and it is about how 'we' (read: certain individuals in the US) are getting a bit carried away here.
How can you ban stuff that is not nearly as damaging as watching violence all-freakin-day. Violence is all over the place, yet there is nothing wrong with portraying that in mass media.
A glimpse of nipple? Dear god! How dare they! Surely in advertising, there is nothing wrong with using women to sell stuff, but this nipple incident is beyond anything we can accept as a people. And if it is illegal, then thats a pretty stupid law. And its hypocritical. The US produces the most porn in the world, surely you can see the irony in that?
The nipple incident being the most sought after on the web simply illustrates that you CAN NOT enforce these stupid rules, as the American people obviously wants to see it. But then again, the people need to be controlled, they do not know what is good for them.
I guess it doesn't fit in the new strategy of the large broadcasters, and surely not in the policy of the neo-conservatives.

I see a trend developing here. We are going back to a 50's kind of era, and we all know who is responsible for that. I see it all over the place.

There is some strange sh*t going on.

[flipnap]

Shin, this isnt really the place to be injecting hardcore political propaganda. You should start PMing people if you have anything to say. I also noticed that you live in the States yourself. One of the best things about America is that you have the freedom to leave the country. I sincerely dont mean this as a flame, but if I were as tormented as you about the administration and goings on in this country, I would pull stakes and move (I wouldnt mind Italy! yes..one day)

and stefan, though we dont see eye to eye here, we can both agree on one thing.. da numba one...

[parallax]

. I sincerely dont mean this as a flame, but if I were as tormented as you about the administration and goings on in this country, I would pull stakes and move (I wouldnt mind Italy! yes..one day)

I would try and do something about it.
I really sincerely hope that the American people will soon wake up and smell the coffee (all Americans that are currently sleeping, that is) I get the impression a very small minority is deciding the fate of the US as a society.

As a citizen of The Netherlands, i find myself in a country that is truly 1 of the greatest democracies in the world. Not because it is the oldest, but because you can truly say and do whatever you want. We don't have censorship, (at least, that is what i like to believe :) ) You can show anything on the telly.
There's nudity, there is violence, but there this self regulation thing going on.


ah what the heck i don't know what i;m trying to say here


/edit

"da numba one" no doubt :)

[ShinChanPu]

Originally posted by flipnap
Shin, this isnt really the place to be injecting hardcore political propaganda. You should start PMing people if you have anything to say. I also noticed that you live in the States yourself. One of the best things about America is that you have the freedom to leave the country. I sincerely dont mean this as a flame, but if I were as tormented as you about the administration and goings on in this country, I would pull stakes and move (I wouldnt mind Italy! yes..one day)


First citizen´s right: If you don´t like something, don´t try to change it... simply go away!!!:D

That´s democracy, for sure!:surprised :surprised

[flipnap]

Propaganda films do not reform administrative evils. Show me a petition for reform and ill sign, give me a booth and ill vote. Im sorry but Im tired of seeing people complain and not do anything about it.. im done..

[feefunk]

Originally posted by sforsyth
How many people would be turned on by a cg buttock here? Honestly?

heheh... I think you would be surprised how many WOULD be turned on...

sad but true.:surprised

[Gein]

Originally posted by feefunk
heheh... I think you would be surprised how many WOULD be turned on...

sad but true.:surprised

I fail to see what would be wrong (and sad) with that. But that's just me. I'm probably twisted... :rolleyes:

Gein

[Kieguy]

LOL...I *just* tuned in (missed the beginning)...and saw it. They evidently didn't cut it out!

Controversy might have been that it definately wasn't as innocent as a baby's butt. Some one drilled a hole in the shower wall while the mom character was in there and uh...well, it was heavilly DOF-ed at least.

(sheesh..and of course I just had to run over and post that. WHAT'S WRONG WITH MEEEEEEE.... :blush: )

:D

[aazimkhan]

I TOTALLY and BLINDLY agree with SHIN CHAN.

HUMANS HAVE THE TENDENCY TO CRY OVER SMALL THINGS.

AND LEAVE TO BIG THINGS IGNORED.

SHIN CHAN, YOU ANIMATION ON THE SITE, ITS TOUCHING. HIT THE AUDIENCE RIGHT IN THE HEAD. ALL THAT WAR HAS REALLY LEFT A UN-CUREABLE SCAR ON THOSE LANDS and PEOPLE.

POOR PEOPLE THOSE, BORN WITH DISABILITIES, AND OTHER DEFORMITIES, DUE TO THE DEADLY WEAPONS USED.

DUE TO INTER-HUMAN GREED.

GOD BLESS ALL.

[KolbyJukes]

I think personally that people these days are way to up tight.

Janet Jackson's boob slipped out on TV...wow...big deal. Who of us haven't seen boobs - nothing new there.

I think the American public (or whoever is freaking out about this) needs to calm down and reconsider their priorities.

I was watching an episode of South Park last night - as usualy Kyle's mom was making a big protest about something (in this case the foul mouths and profance humour of Terrence and Phillip), meanwhile the children were being chased by death. At one point Kyle called his mother begging for help - his mom says she's too busy saving his fragile mind. The kids reflect that perhaps parents are so outraged by sex/violence on TV because they've come to depend on TV as the babysitter/teacher - to take care of their kids. Perhaps these parents should stop protesting janet jackson's boob and a CG butt (:hmm:) and start spending some time with their kids, teach them, impart wisdom, etc.

Just some thoughts from a guy tired of hearing about Janet Jackson's boobs. I'm sure many of the parents out there would disagree with me.

-Kol.

EDIT: Dudes - for the most part I agree with Shin, but lets keep this thread on topic ... and while we're at it ... stop talking in caps - you're hurting my ears.

[GRMac13]

Geez, the conspiracy haze is really heavy in here, it's getting tough to see...no wonder the thread's gone so far off topic. I hate to break the news, but everyone seems to be forgetting that the gov't had nothing to do with the attempted censoring of "Game Over." It was UPN's parent company, Viacom who ordered the producers to cut the scene.

Originally posted by parallax
There's nudity, there is violence, but there this self regulation thing going on.

Apparently, that's the same thing that happened here...Viacom was attempting to regulate itself due to a fear that viewers (read "consumers") would find the material offensive, no doubt due to all the hub-bub over Jackson's Super Bowl nip-slip. The article mentions nothing about government involvement. In fact, the government can't do diddly about it, because there are no clearly defined rules or laws set in place which define what's appropriate or innappropriate for TV. It's all very vauge, except of course for the "seven dirty words" which the FCC declared banned from public airwaves.

Funny how folks get all worked up in a tizzy over this stuff and immediately blame the government, when they have little to nothing to do with it. That said, this thread has been an amusing read.

[SheepFactory]

guys stay on topic please.


So who here has seen the first episode? was it any good? I really want to watch it but i have to cable tv :\

[KolbyJukes]

I've yet to see it, but am very eager to do so...

The production company came to my school recruiting artists, and couple of the grads work there now (one as a lead animator if I remember correctly).

They described it as Family Guy meets Video Games.

-Kol

[Zmei]

Originally posted by GRMac13
Funny how folks get all worked up in a tizzy over this stuff and immediately blame the government, when they have little to nothing to do with it. That said, this thread has been an amusing read.

I think that the main critic was not directed to the US government but to the american public in general.
It was something like "How can millions of american citizens be so outraged about a 3 second nipple slip (wich was in fact covered by a little star) when on their primetime tv they have many acts of full frontal violence and other not so politicaly correct material and they do nothing but watch?"
Of course the US government was mentioned first as a representative of the american people and second to illustrate part of the violence thing I mentioned earlier.

Now on the topic, I don't think that the scene should be cut out as it creates a double standart, until now (before the jackson's incident) cartoon buts were ok, I have seen a couple and I have never felt insulted, but now no kind of nudity is acceptable. I only hope that this issue doesn't escalates anymore than it already has or maybe next year mini skirts and tops will be cut out as well and in a couple years more we will be back on the dark ages where showing an ankle in public was considered to be a very naughty thing.

PS: I totaly agree with kwak's post.

[tx_rx]

Just a thought..(Viacom thinking) " let's try some type of PR in the vein of the superbowl incident and get some free publicity... "

hmm..

My heart goes out to the producers.

Like the sound of it, video game workshop, lucy liu v/o..

:)

edit fixed wrods..

[staticneuron]

All it really comes down to is the large portion of the american public that has nothing better to do than complain about something so trivial. I have seem to run into a lot of whiny people lately and all in all it was not a big deal. Why can many countries across the world show violence and nudity and america can't? Maybe its because it is warping our kids? Or is it the gateway to a higher crime rate?

It still doesn't make sense because alot of the other countries that show more than the US has an incredebly low (in comparison to the us) violence and crime rate. Other countries also seem to have less trouble with thier children. Maybe the american public as a whole needs to calm down a little.

I live in america and for its many faults (large portion of spoiled citizens) it is still a decent place to live.

[agreenster]

But Shin's animation IS alarming, IF those supposed statistics are true.

If they are true, then we're in trouble. 1900 times more likely to have cancer? I find it hard to believe.

Propaganda is all that animation is, unless it can be backed up by some facts. If you have the source of those facts, go ahead and post em or PM me. I think I would be (and everyone else) interested to know if its true.

But if its just another attempt to blame America for all the world's problems, then shame on you for posting the link.

[ShinChanPu]

agreenster... I know how hard is to asume this information. But I can´t allow myself to close my eyes to this. This video is not propaganda... only is using the language in fashion today: IMPACT.

As you asked me, here are some links from only the first page of a Google search (there are more than 100.000 results):

link1 (http://www.cadu.org.uk/)
link2 (http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du.htm)
link3 (http://www.stopnato.org.uk/du-watch/)
link4 (http://www.sundayherald.com/32522)

I advise you to read every link you want on the net, and think about it. Try to be objetive and keep off "What I want believe" thinking. If you wanna reply me, do it, please.

This is not an attempt to blame U.S.A for nothing. Read every documentation and think about freely (of course, be critic if you can afford it)

Note: That video is not made by me. :)

[flipnap]

heres another link to keep an objective mind

http://www.mod.uk/issues/depleted_uranium/misconceptions.htm

[ShinChanPu]

Hahahahahaha..... What would you expect from a Ministry of Defence ????

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.
George W. Bush
State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003

(Can you remember?)

But anyway... you choose what you want/need to believe. That´s your problem.:shrug:

[agreenster]

Hey, Im not attacking anyone or only thinking about "what I want to believe," I just take everything I see from the internet with a grain of salt.

If I believed everything I read, I'd believe all sorts of crazy shit.

Anyway, I'll take a look at those links.

Thanks

[Mouser]

I've read this thread, and think that one of the issues that some people are either unaware of or haven't thought about is that there is nudity on american tv... even on non cable channels.

I think the major problem some people are having with the nipple slip/exposure, is that the superbowl is advertised as a 'family' event. I was at a superbowl party with parents and their children, and would like to think that if they choose to control what their children watch, and don't feel that seeing a man tear a womans clothing to expose her breast is appropriate... then their outrage is acceptable. Many pepole talk about self regulation, but when you have no guidelines, do you have to TiVo every show to make sure someone doesn't pull a publicity stunt like this?

I'm not saying I'm uptight, but I think this situation is being confused with peoples ability to choose. if people are upset, I'll bet most of them are upset not because of the boob, but becuase this was a show that was not supposed to have boobs.

[ShinChanPu]

Originally posted by agreenster
Hey, Im not attacking anyone or only thinking about "what I want to believe," I just take everything I see from the internet with a grain of salt.

If I believed everything I read, I'd believe all sorts of crazy shit.

Anyway, I'll take a look at those links.

Thanks

I agree 100% with you. Sorry.:blush:

[Gentle Fury]

Originally posted by Mouser
I've read this thread, and think that one of the issues that some people are either unaware of or haven't thought about is that there is nudity on american tv... even on non cable channels.

I think the major problem some people are having with the nipple slip/exposure, is that the superbowl is advertised as a 'family' event. I was at a superbowl party with parents and their children, and would like to think that if they choose to control what their children watch, and don't feel that seeing a man tear a womans clothing to expose her breast is appropriate... then their outrage is acceptable. Many pepole talk about self regulation, but when you have no guidelines, do you have to TiVo every show to make sure someone doesn't pull a publicity stunt like this?

I'm not saying I'm uptight, but I think this situation is being confused with peoples ability to choose. if people are upset, I'll bet most of them are upset not because of the boob, but becuase this was a show that was not supposed to have boobs.


I totally understand this point. Now my point is that we are so closed minded here. The human body is a beautiful and natural thing. When i was a kid i was exposed to art. I was exposed to a lot of reneisanse art.....lots of nudity there....it was never meant to be a disgusting or evil thing....it was a normal thing. But we are taught it is taboo.

Personnally I could understand the debate if Justin ripped her clothes off and molested her onstage.....ok, that would be bad for kids to see, as you learn about sex when you get older....that is a natural progression that is meant for when you are older, because there are enough pregnant teens out there.......but exposing a breast and just standing there.....come on!!!

I find it humorous that a parent would allow their kid to watch an event where 40 men beat the living hell out of eachother and get outraged over a breast. I personnally would be more scared of my kids seeing the incredibley violent game than a tit!

Really sad where our values are.

[ShinChanPu]

Originally posted by Gentle Fury
I totally understand this point. Now my point is that we are so closed minded here. The human body is a beautiful and natural thing. When i was a kid i was exposed to art. I was exposed to a lot of reneisanse art.....lots of nudity there....it was never meant to be a disgusting or evil thing....it was a normal thing. But we are taught it is taboo.

Personnally I could understand the debate if Justin ripped her clothes off and molested her onstage.....ok, that would be bad for kids to see, as you learn about sex when you get older....that is a natural progression that is meant for when you are older, because there are enough pregnant teens out there.......but exposing a breast and just standing there.....come on!!!

I find it humorous that a parent would allow their kid to watch an event where 40 men beat the living hell out of eachother and get outraged over a breast. I personnally would be more scared of my kids seeing the incredibley violent game than a tit!

Really sad where our values are.


Exactly the same from me... BTW :rolleyes:

[FloydBishop]

So... umm... did anyone watch the show and see the shot? It looks like they kept it in, but blurred the whole image, kind of like if your eyes aren't in focus.

I think it worked just as well as if it had been clearly focused.

Putting a "Thanks a lot, Janet" sticker over the butt shot would have gotten a laugh though.

[Mouser]

Valid Point about the violence in football Gentle Fury.
Whether or not pro football is appropriate for children is a point that in the U.S. can be left to the parents to decide. But they knew what they were in for when they brought their children. I'm not offended by the nip, but I think that parents should have the option to choose. If you have a young daughter, you decide if you are going to take her to a Britney Spears concert... she doesn't just pop into your living room uninvited..

p.s. I haven't seen the Game Over episode, but from the descriptions I've read here it sounds like they blurred it after the fact to appease Viacom...

[slaughters]

Originally posted by Shin Chan Pu
Much less than Bush´s explanations about the attacks to Afghanistan and Iraq.... the terrorism... the chemical/nuclear weapons inside Iraq (such a shame!!!!).

And for your information:
-That website is not against EE.UU, but G. W. Bush.
-EE.UU is ONLY a country of America. Shin, Please stop. There are other forums where you can rant and rave against America and George Bush to your hearts content. CGTalk really should not be one of them.

[slaughters]

Originally posted by Gentle Fury
...The human body is a beautiful and natural thing... Supermodels and Atheletes bodies are. Your average joe blow off the street now... :)

About the Janet thing.

1) It was not legal

2) It was not culturally acceptable.

I wonder how many people would take a totally different side to this argument if an American had done anything as culturally offensive as this while in another country (like Japan) ?

Respect the culture of other countries guys.

[flipnap]

Slaughters give it up. Your talking to a group who thinks janet jacksons boob is art.

[raz-0]

Originally posted by Gentle Fury
Personnally I could understand the debate if Justin ripped her clothes off and molested her onstage.....ok, that would be bad for kids to see, as you learn about sex when you get older.... [SNIP]

I find it humorous that a parent would allow their kid to watch an event where 40 men beat the living hell out of eachother and get outraged over a breast. I personnally would be more scared of my kids seeing the incredibley violent game than a tit!

Really sad where our values are.

Yeah, but here's the thing. Unlinke nightly news, everyone out on that field agreed to be roughed up. It also is in a very specific context. It really isn't all that violent, and has little to do with values. Heck it doesn't even necesarily reward more force as far as game dynamics. COntextually, it's easy to see why even a parent who think the evening news has become obscene would allow their kid to tune in to the game (especially if you excercise parental control in letting them dwell over players' social lives and thus discourage emulation of such).

The other thing, is that even with art, some things are NOT age appropriate. Exposing a 6 year old to a reubin is going to expose your kid to something ENTIRELY different than exploring the depths of gieger's portfolio for example. It doesn't mean one is art and the other is not. But being art doesn't give it a get out of jail free card. Freedom of speech doesn't mean I have to listen to you or that I have to provide you with a venue for your message.

In the instance of the superbowl, you had a product with certain expectations for what would be in it. If you had asked ANYONE, you would not have gotten an answer from a single person telling you to expect to see a bare breast during it as a result of a scheduled perfomance. The reaction would have been seriously different if the cameras had swept an audience meber who flashed the camera without any knowledge on the behalf of the event schedulers.

People rely on others to be at least reasonably honest about content. You ahd a song some people would have taken objection to without the boob, and you added it. So what would have passed as people ignoring that crap their kids listen to got them loking at it in detail. People got angry about being mislead. It's that simple, and there really isn't anything wrong with anyone's culture about the outrage over it.

What is wrong is that once again, you have a group of people using an honest incident of people being upset to pretend that their offense with one thing extends to a whole category of things. And are attempting to use the momentum of one event to push their agenda. Once again they WILL NOT make any friends doing this just like they haven't in the past. It'll all blow over, but some folks will wind up suffering because some other people are jerks. (those jerks can be MTV for pulling the stunt, the FCC for getting carried away, clear channel for extinding some feigned moral backbone to things that aren't even remotely a parallel, or any number of people).

What happened was basically the moral equivalent of someone bringing home a barny tape and finding porn on it. Except the exposed audience was millions and millions more people, and the discrepency between the expected content and actual content was much, much less severe.

[flipnap]

very well put raz-o...

[FloydBishop]

Don't get this thread locked, ya bums! ;)

Did anyone see the episode? If so, what did you think?

[raz-0]

Originally posted by Shin Chan Pu
But anyway... you choose what you want/need to believe. That´s your problem.:shrug: [/B]

I suggest you do some research of yoru own about the absorption of heavy metals into the human body, rather than simply reading up on the subject after it has been digested by other folks according to their agenda.

All the sites you listed have a severe problem with their logic on most parts, adn avoid delving into the actual science behind what may or may not be causing issues.

most of the sites are complaining about long term effects of waste on the battle field. Which if you stick with that argument, the ministry of defense is largely correct. About the only thing their conclusions don't address is policy regarding quantities of munitions dumped. Witha fast moving theater of conflict, it is quite possible that after the fact you ahve no radiation or toxicity effect greater than existed before hand. However, you have a front that moves back and forth over the same land over time, and even despite the extremely low radiation (think on the oder of a piece of fiesta ware that you can buy in a store and eat off of), if you dump enough of it in a small enough space you can rase exposure levels. Running around saying ban DU is a lot more severe course of action than demanding logical battlefield contamination assessment and cleanup from armed forces around the globe. However, you have a bunch of bliss-ninnies trying to declare world peace by banning military weappons (or other such agenda pushing, like knee jerk environmentalism, groups politically oppsed to those they are attempting to sanction, etc.). In the process of co-opting an issue to push their agenda, they prevent an actual issue worth of discussion form getting proper attention.

In addition to a more effective approach to battlefield contamination assessment and cleanup, It would probably greatly reduce the impact on friendly personnel if the miliary addressed the frequency of any of heavy metal screening on soldiers' blood, and re-evaluation of radiation dose exposure measurement methods with regards to length of tours of duty and where and how units are deployed. It probably wouldn't be a bad thing to consider re-evaluting "workplace" exposure thresholds based on carried loads of radiological materials. (i.e. if you are carrying a load of mineralized heavy metals that have higher than background radiation, the per-annum exposure that is considered acceptable in the workplace for you should be reduced.). And this most affects combat troops. The number one and number two way to absorb heavy metals into the body are respirating vaporized metal, and exposing fine metallic material to stomach acids (i.e. eating it). Beyond that the solubility of the material in water for a heavy metal tends to be low, and even carrying a piece of lead in one's body isn't an overly severe exposure because of pH levels vs. solubility once oxidation is taken into account. But on the field, those who aren't dead, by the nature of the mechanics of DU armor piercing shells are being exposed to a lot of heavy metal in vaporized form. Once it precipitates, it is likely no big deal, but during a certain window, you have potential for severe exposure. With the exception of leukemia cases, most of the symptoms described are on par with the vague and varied symptoms of lead poisoning. There are treatments available for most chemical contamination on par with lead poisoning, but managing carried levels is important in effective treatment and managing the window of debilitation caused by the treatment itself. If you increase the radiological content built up (and it concentrates in the bones, thus the increased prevelnce of leukemia, since the bones are the blood factories of the bodies), you get increased exposure. If you increase exposure and don't consider the level of contamination in exposure management policy, you expose them to longer periods of exposure than you might like as any decontamination process available takes a certain ammount of time, and that time grows with the load carried.

AS for exposure of people to radiation in the middle east, and otehr thrid world nations, you might want to search around for accounts of purchasing radiological material on the "black market" in those regions. (there's actually a pretty good nova special about dirty bombs that covers a lot of the aspects). You are dealing with areas exposed to A) poorly disposed of radiological waste from medical and industrial applications and B) a bunch of uneducated wackos who trade in the stuff because they don't really understand about how one goes from raw material to a nuclear bomb. Those two things likely expose their populations to a more severe radiological danger.

however, you don't see nearly as many people getting bent out of shape about that despite the third world villages that have had to be plowed under anbd other such fun things even though proper policing and enforcement of disposal regulations would be nothing but a win on a health, environmental, and secuiryt front for EVERYONE on the planet.

AS usual an actual issue is getting jerked around by two extreme ends of spin on a topic. You want to froth at the mouth over an impossible cause, howabout you work on that little bit of human nature.

[ShinChanPu]

Well, raz-0... I´m not MD and I´m not going to answer you. But they will:

>>>read this<<< (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11873491&dopt=Abstract)

[ShinChanPu]

...And no.... I didn´t see the episode, Floyd. I ´ve been very busy lately to watch tv. Sorry for kidnapping and mess up your thread, man... :blush: :blush: :blush:

[raz-0]

Originally posted by Shin Chan Pu
Well, raz-0... I´m not MD and I´m not going to answer you. But they will:

>>>read this<<< (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11873491&dopt=Abstract)

did you read your own link? Basically it says that there's a bunch of doctors determining if the same guidlines they use for surgical removal of other metal fragments should be applied to DU. There results so far are that they have inserted items into lab rats, and based on exposure and bodymass, concluded that the DU SHOULD be nephrotoxic (it means toxic to the kidneys), but WASN'T. THe most likely candidates for comparison are lead, copper, brass, steel, and tungsten. Roughly in order of toxicity when introduced to the human body in quantity.

besides basically saying "hmm, weird, this stuff appears safer than we thought under long term exposure", it fails to tell you what standard practices are for surgical removal of fragments. Which is not a failing of the article or research, it's just something you need to knwo to understand the article properly, and they expect their audience to already know it. But lead, quite often, will be left in the body if removal presents a risk of trauma that will be life threatening or irreversible. (i.e. removal endangers a major arty, might cause severe nerve or crtiledge damage, would involve traumatizing an already injured organ, etc.) The lead migrates, but due to the low solubility, it migrates slow enough it doesn't present a significant increase over the background load you get everyday, which your body can flush out over time.

Good link, but it actually supports the ministry of defense article, not your point of view. It is exactly the kind of research that does need ot be objectivly done so that proper policy can be made about duty cycles for soldiers and battlefield remediation, rather than simply going with the most cost expedient solution, or the solution that makes you feel warm and fuzzy despite not having much to do with managing actual harm in viable manner. (i.e. preach all you want, you will not be convincing modern armors to abandon current armor technology on the battlefield anytime soon. Which means they won't be abandooning armor piercing munitions either).

[charleyc]

I have not seen this show, don't see too much tv these days....But I am not so sure this thread is entirely off topic. It may be skirting the edge of CG Talk forum rules, but the topic certainly implies an opinion of censorship. This comes in many forms, and is accepted or not by various people based on their own moral point of view. Perhaps the issues Shin has brought up have deviated from this slightly, I am however, very entertained by raz-o's remarks.

However, pertaining to censorship, wether CG or not, everyone should remember that the US was founded on a belief in the biblical God. It is all over our money and used to be in more federal locations (the pledge of alliegance?). The federal laws of the US are based pretty much on the 10 commandments of the bible (don't murder, don't steel, don't commit adultury...). Going to the biblical end, while nudity is not wrong, lusting after it is considered so. This is why it is not allowed culturally. Obviously since the creation of this nation, many people no longer hold those morals. While this is fine and 100% promoted by the legistalture, polls still show the mojority (greater then 50%) to still hold to these morals. Therefore a true democracy should hold to those views until it is outweighed (give it a couple more years and you all will probably have it). Also, it is usually not the voice of the masses that shouts the loudest, but the voice of the few who know they have to shout to be heard. So while it is ok to persuade others towards your beliefs, if you are the minority, exepct to respect the majority, or go where you are the majority (its a big planet). If you think cg art is exempt from weird people lusting after its images, explain many images at renderosity.com? The human body can be very beautiful, even when it is not naked :)

[ShinChanPu]

raz-0, yes I read the link, of course. Did you?


Nonetheless, further studies of the long-term health impact are needed. DU is mutagenic and transforms human osteoblastic cells into a tumorigenic phenotype. It alters neurophysiological parameters in rat hippocampus, crosses the placental barrier, and enters fetal tissue. Preliminary data also indicate decreased rodent litter size when animals are bred 6 months or longer after DU implantation.
:rolleyes:


Also, it is usually not the voice of the masses that shouts the loudest, but the voice of the few who know they have to shout to be heard.
Absolutely true!!!

if you are the minority, exepct to respect the majority, or go where you are the majority (its a big planet).

Why I think I´ve heard that reasoning before??:rolleyes: I can imagine how happy you´d be if every one thinking different would decide go away... that´t the easiest way to preserve your own ideas and that "majority" (and the fascist way). But be sure that I wont do it... I will keep on SHOUTING to be heard, and I hope some day people will broke the chains of dogmas and begin to analyse every thing is wrong in the beliefs and "principles" of this culture/society.

[charleyc]

Shin, accepting and respecting are two different things. I certainly do not accept the belief system of the majority of mankind. I have what you would consider a very narrow mind about many things. But I do not attempt to belittle or degrade indaviduals who do not share my opinions and beliefs. That is respect. If you are unwilling to accept the majority in a democracy, then you are choosing to add unnecissary conflict to your life and the lives of others. If you choose to do this, ask yourself if you are trying to make others lives better, or your own (concerning censorship), and is it worth disrespecting others in the process. As someone mentioned earlier, it is about choice, do you or do you not have the choice to see what you want. If you have the choice to get cable/satellite and all those premium channels that have all the nudity you could ever want, then why does it have to be pushed to the general access stations where there may be a large number of people who choose not to view (or have their children view) this kind of thing.

[AlbertArt]

AYE TACOS!

If the ass looked like it did in the ANIMATRIX, then I would have liked to see it, but with those characters in Game Over, I wouldn't give a crud.

Thanks


The episode had its funny moments, like the SUBBY instead of subway, etc. I don't think its very different from the material on the Simpsons, actually, i think the Simpsons has their characters tell edgier material. ALso the lipsync, needs work, or maybe they ran out of time, or couldn't spend alot of time on the syncing.

Whats up with all this essay style flame war posts? Damn long enough.

[parallax]

I've asked at least 30+ people about the 'incident', and nobody seems to think it is offensive.

ANd regarding the depleted uranium article, British MoD isn't exactly objective on this part.
There are official UN studies (and dozens to support it) that prove the danger AND the dramatic rise in cancer patients after the use of depleted uranium in munition.
Every scientist who takes himself seriously in this country also seems to think tis is the case.

Its crystal clear, really?

You guys DID follow a science class in high school??

[4SquareKing]

I see this thread has gone everywhere. Here are a few points I would like to say about the show after talking with a bunch of artists at the place I work.

First off lip sync was off and by more than a little that distracted many people watching the show.

The show had some funny spots but overall was not an interesting enough to keep attention of many viewers. Also you do not need crass humor to make a show fun to watch.

The one visual everyone is talking that got edited and people yelling censorship. Question did not need to actually see the butt to make the joke right? A bigger problem is the timing of the joke did not fit. It was like it was put in there but had no "real" meaning.

A side note on censorship and what people are throwing around as such. When you sign up with UPN, Nick or whoever you have to play by their rules since they are paying you. If you do not like what they say or want broadcast or air you work someplace else. People need to know that their work will be reviewed before being broadcast and changes may happen. UPN is not the only place to have animation broadcast.

The place I work at sign a broadcast deal that means we must play by the rules of the people giving us the money to produce the show they want. If we did not like it than we should not have sold the idea and everything else to them.

Another comment about USA being uptight about sex or sexual things and not voilence I think is out of line a little. First off there are many groups that want less of both of those things. It just happens to be the hot topic of the moment because of the superbowel. In two years it maybe something else. A bigger question for congress and this does matter if it is Dem, Rep, or Ind is that do they really have true moral opinion about the laws just passed for the FCC or they doing because it is a good thing to do for their campaigns before an election year?

Back to the SuperBowl I think the general public was not expecting it so that is why you get shock and vocal opinion. My point is if MTV was producing it CBS should have been ready for anything. My personal view is that the SuperBowl half time shows have not been great for many many years already.

I actually hope that Game Over does well so there are more shows in the media we all enjoy or work in and that is animation. If it goes down with others it makes it harder for independent studios to push through. It is like DNA doing Jimmy Neutron it open doors for many projects and I know of a few films from some studios that will be coming to the big screen in the next few years.

4SquareKing

[TheClick]

and I'm just wondering: Who is this Janet Jackson character you speak of?

Is it a carnivore?

[Control-Freak]

So what is next?

Warning Labels on everything?

"Please be warned our Monkeys are Naked" << New Regulation For Zoo's

"Please be aware that this Museum is rated R for Nudity" National Art Shows and Museums will engrave this on the side of thier buildings

"This football game is rated at PG13 for Brief Violence" The Next Superbowl Show


Will our schools have Censorship marks throughout all books to make sure the child is not subjected to these otrosities?

Its ok to send thier children to school to see much much more in school books but its not ok for them to view it with thier children??

[4SquareKing]

Control Freak your name seems to match your tone. Yikes. Lets stay on the original topic that started this thread and not go off on other tangents like Zoos, National Art Shows and Museums, Schools. The original topic was the show on UPN and if that was censorship. The bottom line is if you are selling something to someone and they are giving you money than you have to not have to much issue if they change things. If the person selling does not like that or feels their animation or story is being censored than take your IP and sell or display someplace else.

Funny how people through around the word "censorship" in discussion but in reality there has been no censorship of the show this discussion started upon. Changes happen all the time in movies and special effects do we call those censorship?


4SquareKing

[staticneuron]

This is amazing!

The federal laws of the US are based pretty much on the 10 commandments of the bible (don't murder, don't steel, don't commit adultury...). Going to the biblical end, while nudity is not wrong, lusting after it is considered so. This is why it is not allowed culturally.


The same arguement seems to come out of the people that were offended by the Janet event. First of all if it was an accident then it really shouldn't be a big deal but it happened.

"What if we didn't want to see it?" "What of our children?" "Janet boobs arent art!!"

The taboo of nudity and violence is and will be destructive. "Lusting" is something that come from within and is totally dependant on a pesons frame of mind. The nip slip wasn't done in any provacative way. According to the looks on thier face's it really did look like an accident. As for crying about the what the event will teach your children morally...... you use TELEVISION to teach your children about morality? The way I was raised I was exposed to everything and was told what was considered bad or good in my parent's eyes and they encouraged me to form my own. Trying to hide the world from your children because your to lazy to explain or just to scared isn't an excuse.



1) 1) It was not legal

2) It was not culturally acceptable.

I wonder how many people would take a totally different side to this argument if an American had done anything as culturally offensive as this while in another country (like Japan) ?

Respect the culture of other countries guys.


Are you talking about america. The melting pot of cultures america? Or is there som Prevailing culture some where that you are talking about. And by the way there is a lot of nudity and violence on japanese television. America seems to be the only nation with a large amount of children whos minds are warped by television and video games.


PS. I am sorry for this rant. I really do not mean to offend anyone I just feel that there is a finger pointing problem that needs to be addressed.

[Control-Freak]

Originally posted by 4SquareKing
Control Freak your name seems to match your tone. Yikes. Lets stay on the original topic that started this thread and not go off on other tangents like Zoos, National Art Shows and Museums, Schools. The original topic was the show on UPN and if that was censorship. The bottom line is if you are selling something to someone and they are giving you money than you have to not have to much issue if they change things. If the person selling does not like that or feels their animation or story is being censored than take your IP and sell or display someplace else.

Funny how people through around the word "censorship" in discussion but in reality there has been no censorship of the show this discussion started upon. Changes happen all the time in movies and special effects do we call those censorship?


4SquareKing

Not sure how my post did not reflect the original topic as even you yourself said the original topic is about censorship.

Anyway to answer your question, Yes those are censorsed. As you yourself even said changes happen all the time.

censure
NOUN: 1. An expression of strong disapproval or harsh criticism.



Why would we not see those changes I described above seeing as the public (those millions of people that did not want to see a naked cartoon butt) are the ones that pay for those buildings?

What will be next? Where will it stop?

I am not one to expect the US to return to the days where Elivs shaking his pelvis was the worse thing on TV. However I do think that things will be made harder for all industries if people keep pushing things into the closet after the doors been opened for so long.

[PM5K]

I for one am extremely worried about where the country is going. It seems that it's becoming a puritanical society again where the powers that be are making decisions for us as to what's decient for us to see and what's not. It's a single persons choice: Turn the channel, or don't even watch. Every day I see commercials for guys who can't get it up, is that ok for children to see? What ever, this has been a very touchy subject for me lately and to see it cross over to this show is just plain stupid. There is more seen in Trippin' The Rift and I don't see an out cry over that? ok... enough ranting. Back to modeling my perfect breasts. :)

[4SquareKing]

I am not one to expect the US to return to the days where Elivs shaking his pelvis was the worse thing on TV. However I do think that things will be made harder for all industries if people keep pushing things into the closet after the doors been opened for so long. - Control Freak

Control Freak, I can agree with you on this, nor in reality do I want it to go back to that where there were only 3 "big" networks. This day and age with cable and dish systems people have choices. One person made a comment about Tripping the Rift and I agree with that person there is far worse in that show but since it is on the SciFi channel for some reason the laws of the land state that is ok.

I personally think all broadcasts should be under one standard. I mean if you want HBO and to see the The Sopranos the standard should be the same as watching ER or Fear Factor on the other networks.

My statement about changes was more about if you work at production facility you are seeing changes to script, animation and final edits all the time. If you do work in that environment and we take the logical route of your thought process than we all are part of censorship even before a tv show, feature film or animation are showing to the masses. If in that light than people don't see that as censorship but as of creative decisions or how the production pipeline works. See how that is kinda flip flap and that other get upset about the "censorship" of the butt on UPN for Game Over.

If we go back to Game Over I just hope the lip sync is tighter and the story more enganging so they pick up more than the 6 episodes they have ordered.

4SquareKing

[Supervlieg]

censor the censors!

[F3EF73]

The Simpsons is made by a bunch of Atheists. They make fun and starve believers of religon. Remember that Paul and Linda McCartney episode.

"You believe in God?"
"No believers of God don't drink milk or eat eggs."

They've bashed and made fun of every culture, religon, and gesture of goodwill there is.

The Simpsons rotted your children's minds.

Ban The Simpsons Now.

[parallax]

At first i thought you were serious about the Simpsons, but that was sarcasm,


Right??


(please)

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by parallax
At first i thought you were serious about the Simpsons, but that was sarcasm,


Right??


(please)

Look at the heavenly intro. It's there to lure in any religious believers and slowly psycho induce them into Atheists with every episode. Gambling, drinking, smoking, guns, hell, the devil, bad polictics, secret government clubs. Go ahead, kill your family, no one ever gets hurt.

"You go to church, you're Ned Flanders, you're lefty (leftist)!"

[Supervlieg]

Originally posted by F3EF73
Look at the heavenly intro. It's there to lure in any religious believers and slowly psycho induce them into Atheists with every episode. Gambling, drinking, smoking, guns, hell, the devil, bad polictics, secret government clubs. Go ahead, kill your family, no one ever gets hurt.

"You go to church, you're Ned Flanders, you're lefty (leftist)!"

"life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead"

[AlbertArt]

Oh please, the Simpsons takes stabs at practically everyone, from headliners in the news, to all sorts of current events. I think the series has obviously evolved from its first couple of seasons and has become a mature cultural icon. It represents what "America" and "American humor" is. No one is safe in comedy because everyone is a victim of a joke. Practically every standup comedian does the same thing. If you laugh because its funny, then its funny, if you laugh cause it unexpected, then its funny, if you gasp from what you hear, then the writers know how to push your buttons. One thing for sure is, its a very well written show.:wavey:

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by AlbertArt
Oh please, the Simpsons takes stabs at practically everyone, from headliners in the news, to all sorts of current events. I think the series has obviously evolved from its first couple of seasons and has become a mature cultural icon. It represents what "America" and "American humour" is. No one is safe in comedy because everyone is a victim of a joke. Practically every stand-up comedian does the same thing. If you laugh because its funny, then its funny, if you laugh cause it unexpected, then its funny, if you gasp from what you hear, then the writers know how to push your buttons. One thing for sure is, its a very well written show.:wavey:

"It represents what "America" and "American humor" is."

It's certainly has contributed to what "America" and what "American humor" is today. An immoral, un-ethical, sexist, racist, politically incorrect attitude towards everything. The work of Atheists.

"No one is safe."

Ironic you find humour in this.

"if you laugh cause it unexpected, then its funny"

Next time you explode unexpectedly, I'll be sure to remember that. Just because The Simpsons is presented in a nice animated fashion doesn't make it a good choice of programming for children to emulate from.

"if you gasp from what you hear, then the writers know how to push your buttons."

If that's true, I hope all the writers die then.

"One thing for sure is, its a very well written show."

For idiots to watch. Yes I agree it makes fun of everything and covers a lot of ground with what you said from headliners in the news, to all sorts of current events, but it does it so half-assedly, it might as well not be done at all. Look a 2 second commentary on sex. "If a man slaps you on your ass you should giggle." It crentainly isn't something positive for children to watch and emulate from. Not even night time televison allow for that sort of suggestive behaviour.

[FloydBishop]

Originally posted by F3EF73
The Simpsons is made by a bunch of Atheists. They make fun and starve believers of religon...

The Simpsons are in church more than any other TV family.

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by Floyd Bishop
The Simpsons are in church more than any other TV family.

and every bit portrayed negatively.

[parallax]

You sir, are a religious fanatic and a fundamentalist. We've got enough of those already. Keep those extremist thoughts to yourself please, wishing people dead et all.
This thread is getting close to getting locked or closed.

I think you don't understand the Simpsons.

[AlbertArt]

I'd be interested to know what sort of programs you watch F3EF73. Telling from your reply you seem to be against alot of things. I think you are taking things too seriously or you're just really sensitive. You shouldn't browse through the Gallery forums, you might see something sinful.
So what do you watch, the church channel 24/7? I'd like to know more programs you find evil. Is watching the news evil? Or are you into Reality TV? Is trading spaces OK for children?

Did you really think that just because its animated, that the Simpsons is a childrens show? Do you have children and if so what cartoons do you let them watch?

An immoral, un-ethical, sexist, racist, politically incorrect attitude towards everything. The work of Atheists = FOX Network
I'm a church goer myself, I guess watching this show makes me evil.:applause:

Anyway, of course people will get offended by things in the media, so don't watch it. Don't expose your child to it, keep them sheltered like little monks, so that when its time to grow up, they won't know how to deal with situations and will be living with their parents forever.

Welcome to America.


No one is safe in comedy because everyone is a victim of a joke. Practically every stand-up comedian does the same thing. (Please Don't cut my quotes short.)

"No one is safe."

Ironic you find humour in this. - F3EF73


LOL

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by parallax
You sir, are a religious fanatic and a fundamentalist. We've got enough of those already. Keep those extremist thoughts to yourself please, wishing people dead et all.
This thread is getting close to getting locked or closed.

I think you don't understand the Simpsons.

Look at The Simpson intro, the heavenly clouds, the awing chorus, the golden halo. You yourself were suckered into their religious beliefs. "This is the voice of God." "This is how people act." "This is what people laugh at." "We define heaven." "We define hell."

All religion is, is a service to provide goodwill. The Simpsons plainly does not represent goodwill in any way or form. Just like so many other programs on television now a days. It is worse when The Simpsons takes the guise of goodwill when it obviously does not motivate its viewers to act accordingly.

"I'm a church goer myself, I guess watching this show makes me evil."

Are you a Catholic Priest? Does your local Catholic Priest watch The Simpsons? Does your local Catholic Priest watch pronography? If he watches pornography, would it make him evil?

"...and will be living with their parents forever. "

...and apparently with you spending time with children is bad.

"No one is safe. Welcome to America."

[parallax]

The Simpsons is all of the above and then some.
But it isn't about mindless bashing. Just because YOU can't comprehend the subtelties of sarcasm, cynicism, irony and cliches, doesn't mean its an atheist child unfriendly show. There's more you can learn from the Simpsons then dozens (dare i say 99%) of other shows poluting the minds of people with biased propaganda.

It's perfectly parodizing american society, and its critical. Keeps people sharp.
But i guess you don't like living in a secular society, but you'd rather tell people what to believe.

[AlbertArt]

HAHAH, this guy is impossible. no use in talking to the wall:applause:

[slaughters]

Originally posted by AlbertArt
HAHAH, this guy is impossible.No, he is just a TROLL.

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by AlbertArt
HAHAH, this guy is impossible. no use in talking to the wall:applause:

Well, I don't watch The Simpsons. A lot of people I know don't watch it. Many people don't even watch TV anymore. Maybe you guys are still stuck with the tube.

You've had a flickering screen talk to you all this time. Really I must be an idiot thinking people would change.

[FloydBishop]

So anyway...

Here's a review of "Game Over" from the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/10/arts/television/10HEFF.html

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/02/26/technology/26OVER.topxl.jpg

[AlbertArt]

Gotta register i think.:p

[parallax]

I changed alright.

[sumpm1]

All this heated debate has left me craving..........CG BUTTS

[sumpm1]

Everybody is so uptight here. How can you put a butt and a breast in the same category? Ludicrous! This debate is out of hand. Numerous great statements have been made, but not for the rights of the CG BUTTS. If the question is whether we want nudity on television, obviously it has been banned on the networks for the longest time, that is your obvious answer!


No debate needed on that subject.

The real question for this debate is whether we consider a butt to be obscene nudity, plain and simple, no culture, right and wrong, or morality about it. No one here thinks that cbs abc or nbc should now be airing breasts left and right, we are talking about a butt. I am neutral on that subject because I don't watch tv and I don't care. But if we wanted to see breasts on television, there are plenty of pay channels, videos, and the internet to see that crap on.

Do we consider GLUDIAS MAXIMUS(male or female) to be obscene????? YES or NO, no speeches. I am sure that we have seen a million shower scenes on TV that showed every part of the woman, including the the ASS and all of the BREAST excluding the nipple, or GIRLS GONE WILD commercials that show nearly the entire breast, but blur the NIPPLE. Why now do we make such a fuss over seeing a butt on TV when we have been showing them forever and considering them to be just fine? The lines were already drawn.

I am sure that all of you would say that a true live up close execution would also be too graphic to air. There is also a line of how much REAL LIFE violence we would allow.

[4SquareKing]

Answer as short as I can sumpm 1. No I have no issue with butts. I think there is an issue at UPN because at this time it is hot potato that is all. If Super Bowl halftime show did not do what it did I really think UPN would have not done what it did to Game Over simple as that.

4 Square King

[ShinChanPu]

Originally posted by sumpm1
How can you put a butt and a breast in the same category? Ludicrous!

Of course, man....

I agree with you.



Shin Chan Pu

(Member of the TLMA*)









*Two-legged Mammal Association

[KolbyJukes]

F3EF73

Man, your posts are very hard to follow, when you quote somebody, make it bold, and quote the whole sentence, not just fragments.

The comedy found in the simpsons is so tame compared to most TV shows and Movies. I don't think anyone (except you) really finds it offensive anymore - they've all moved on to be offended by South Park and Family guy. I think you need to learn to laugh at life - there is humour in everything: religion, politics, family life, the media...everything. If you can't find humour in the simpsons, there's obviously something wrong with your sense of humour. I have no idea how you got from the Simpsons to Porn, or how that analogy works...perhaps you could explain this a little more clearly.

Quote: Look at The Simpson intro, the heavenly clouds, the awing chorus, the golden halo. You yourself were suckered into their religious beliefs.

I thought you said they were atheists - heavenly clouds and halos are more Christian conventions then atheistic... besides that, I think you're reading into this stuff way too much

good day sir.
-Kol.

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by KWAK

I thought you said they were atheists - heavenly clouds and halos are more Christian conventions then atheistic... besides that, I think you're reading into this stuff way too much

good day sir.
-Kol.

Just because somebody dresses like a man, doesn't mean they are one. Some people are so easily mislead.

Flickering screen > You

Is that easier to follow?

[F3EF73]

You know, for all intents and purposes. It could a butt shaped rock. Who's to say what's what in cg.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by F3EF73
You know, for all intensive purposes.

Uh...what's an "intensive" purpose? :surprised

[GRMac13]

Maybe this will help...http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/errors/intensive.html

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by GRMac13
Uh...what's an "intensive" purpose? :surprised

intensive - rigorous, serious, thorough, demanding

The most serious purpose.

The most intensive purpose.

It works perfectly fine in a sentence.

[parallax]

Exactly. In fits perfectly in "a" sentence.
But whatever, i guess the heavenly intro was part of a large worldwide plot to turn us into mindless satanic sheep.


You really should get out more.

[Dougs]

I think He actually meant INTENDED purposes? Not that it matters.


They need to bring on one of those child molesting Catholic Priests and beat his Butt with a cane rod. Then we would be even. Now that's what I call censorship!


I think that's the problem with censorship and religion , neither one is any real solution.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by F3EF73
intensive - rigorous, serious, thorough, demanding

The most serious purpose.

The most intensive purpose.

It works perfectly fine in a sentence.

Ah, so what you meant to say was:

You know, for all rigorous, serious, thorough, and demanding purposes. It could a butt shaped rock.

Wow, that actually makes less sense than I originally thought.

Better to admit when you're wrong rather than trying to cover your mistake with an even bigger one. :thumbsup:

Oh, and since we're on the topic of utter confusion:

Originally posted by F3EF73
Who's to say what's what is cg.

Indeed I ask you, what is what is cg? Also, WTMF? :surprised

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by GRMac13
Ah, so what you meant to say was:



Wow, that actually makes less sense than I originally thought.

Better to admit when you're wrong rather than trying to cover your mistake with an even bigger one. :thumbsup:

Oh, and since we're on the topic of utter confusion:



Indeed I ask you, what is what is cg? Also, WTMF? :surprised

Yes, let's ignore the whole topic and focus on grammartik instead. Since we're on the topic of ignoring things.

/ignore GRMac13

[Dougs]

What's a GRAMMARTIK? And I'm sorry if you feel your being ignored.

I know how that feels.


If we censor enough we can wittle it down to one show on tv and that would be the news.

Did you KNOW? Some people find any RELIGION to be offensive?


And they talked and they talked and then they talked some more until they realized, no one was listening. And then they shutup.

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by Dougs

Did you KNOW? Some people find any RELIGION to be offensive?

And they talked and they talked and then they talked some more until they realized, no one was listening. And then they shutup.


Maybe they were listening to the wrong people is all I'm saying.

Grammartik = Grammatik.

[F3EF73]

I find people who type in CAPLOCKS to be offensive, so do many other people. Atheists find religion to be offensive. So what?

[staticneuron]

This is getting silly. Wasn't this about Game Over? Hey, Floyd do you think that Game Over will be popular enough to last?

[NanoGator]

Thank you, Janet.

[Dougs]

I find people who type in CAPLOCKS to be offensive,so do many other people. Atheists find religion to be offensive. So what?

Well, I just thought this thread was about censorship in CG ( ie, Game Over)? And I've always thought that the reason things get censored is because people find them offensive? I think THAT'S WHAT, and yes staticneuron this is getting very silly.

I find myself offensive I'm going to go censor myself. ;) later:

[AlbertArt]

Intents and Purposes!

He was too much in the heat of his typing, he didn't know he messed up...
Foolish people close this thread.:applause:

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by Dougs
Well, I just thought this thread was about censorship in CG ( ie, Game Over)? And I've always thought that the reason things get censored is because people find them offensive? I think THAT'S WHAT, and yes staticneuron this is getting very silly.

I find myself offensive I'm going to go censor myself. ;) later:

Well, why censors television. People have religious beliefs. There are more "real" and revealing nudity on daytime television than "fake" nudity. John Ashcroft wants to censor the internet.
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/12/offbeat.php Bush will follow just to get Christian votes. People tie religion and politics together everyday. Look at the Windows default background. A bunch of religious clouds. GameOver doesn't look like a good show to me anyway. Maybe it has hooks like the Simpsons or South Park. Hence the hiney exposure. It's either sex, race, or religion. Why not just let a bunch of mixed raced Christian Gays and Lesbians run the world. Wait that was Rome. Okay I'm not making any sense now, but I was before. :cry:

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by AlbertArt
Intents and Purposes!

He was too much in the heat of his typing, he didn't know he messed up...
Foolish people close this thread.:applause:

You know if you don't like people disagreeing with you, you can just un-subscribe. You don't need the mods to close the thread for you because you don't like it. You have to throw in some valid arguments in a debate, you know not just inane banter.

[Soeren Nielsen]

<sarcasm>Oh no I looked at the pretty clouds!!! I must be religious now</sarcasm>
Sheez, get this thread over with.
As for the censorship of the cg butt.. I find it really strange that anyone would censor nudity at all, since we all know that a butt is a part of the human anatomy, but thats just my oppinion, you dont need to follow it :)

[gruvsyco]

in all seriousness... who really f'n cares? I gave up on TV almost 2 years ago now... Give me a call when entertainment returns and maybe I'll give a shit.

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by Soeren Nielsen
<sarcasm>Oh no I looked at the pretty clouds!!! I must be religious now</sarcasm>
Sheez, get this thread over with.
As for the censorship of the cg butt.. I find it really strange that anyone would censor nudity at all, since we all know that a butt is a part of the human anatomy, but thats just my oppinion, you dont need to follow it :)

<sarcasm>Yes, why don't we all prance around naked in the streets.</sarcasm>

Just because you want to see other people naked. Doesn't mean other people want to see you naked. That's why we have laws that prohibits such a thing. That's why we have man and woman bathroom stalls so people wouldn't have to see your ass.

Seriously, everyone acts like an idiot on the internet. Why do we have discussions at all? It just promotes idiots with no benefit to society as a whole (Atheists) to say stupid things. No normal, SANE people would ever have enough time on their hands to disagree, since idiots out number us like 5000:1.

Ooooooh look clouds.

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by gruvsyco
in all seriousness... who really f'n cares? I gave up on TV almost 2 years ago now... Give me a call when entertainment returns and maybe I'll give a shit.

Here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1208015#post1208015)

[AlbertArt]

F3EF73, are you suppose to be religious or something? Christian or Catholic cause there is a difference???

your comments sound like you're eating S^%T for dinner, cause you don't sound very CHRISTIAN to me. Try learning about your faith before you even attempt to attack people. You think people are attacking you, well thats cause you don't know what the heck you're saying so I suggest you go read your religious material. OR better yet, watch "The Passion" maybe you could learn something.

HAHAH you edited your intensive remark!! You also edited you attacks on certain people in this society... Why don't you put those comments back so we can see how unreligious you are. You sound worse then the Simpsons, Family guy, and South Park combined.

*now i bet this thread will be closed cause i mentioned the passion. Laughable*

ALso, do you have a problem with nudity??? Cause I know, god never created people with clothes??? IF you think the human body is sinful, then you don't know your religion son.

The biggest uneducated IDIOT here is "F'er"

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by AlbertArt
F3EF73, are you suppose to be religious or something? Christian or Catholic cause there is a difference???

your comments sound like you're eating S^%T for dinner, cause you don't sound very CHRISTIAN to me. Try learning about your faith before you even attempt to attack people. You think people are attacking you, well thats cause you don't know what the heck you're saying so I suggest you go read your religious material. OR better yet, watch "The Passion" maybe you could learn something.

HAHAH you edited your intensive remark!! You also edited you attacks on certain people in this society... Why don't you put those comments back so we can see how unreligious you are. You sound worse then the Simpsons, Family guy, and South Park combined.

*now i bet this thread will be closed cause i mentioned the passion. Laughable*

ALso, do you have a problem with nudity??? Cause I know, god never created people with clothes??? IF you think the human body is sinful, then you don't know your religion son.

Here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1208015#post1208013)

I know God never wrote a page in a book. So I don't know what religion you follow.

[AlbertArt]

NOW I REALLY KNOW< YOU DON't KNOW JACK S(*T. Do you even know the extent of what you're saying???

Since you've been watching this thread very closley, like a rat, then why don't you confront the questions i've posed to you instead of evading it.

What TV shows do you watch?? Are you christian, catholic or just a straight up uneducated ignorant hypocrite?


I know God never wrote a page in a book. So I don't know what religion you follow.

wishing people dead

You are SACRILEGIOUS, not any tv show. But i don't blame you for being so uneducated in your own belief. PATHETIC. I'll send you a bunch of religious website links if you want.

[AlbertArt]

GAME OVER, i hope it lives long on UPN, at least 4 seasons.

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by AlbertArt
NOW I REALLY KNOW< YOU DON't KNOW JACK S(*T. Do you even know the extent of what you're saying???

Since you've been watching this thread very closley, like a rat, then why don't you confront the questions i've posed to you instead of evading it.

What TV shows do you watch?? Are you christian, catholic or just a straight up uneducated ignorant hypocrite?






You are SACRILEGIOUS, not any tv show. But i don't blame you for being so uneducated in your own belief. PATHETIC. I'll send you a bunch of religious website links if you want.

I rarely watch TV. I do not watch TV as if is a religion. What do you think educated is? Memorising Trivia? Knowing all the answers to “Who wants to be a millionaire?”? Knowing every corporate brand and logo, and who said what on which network show? What religion did people follow before Christ? You haven't even seen GAME OVER and you're calling me a hypocrite? Is prejudice a christian, catholic thing now?

[AlbertArt]

You haven't even seen GAME OVER and you're calling me a hypocrite?


NOW, you're IGNORANT... I have seen the show son. I laughed, but i'm laughing even more at you for trying to sway away from what i've been saying. Try reading the thread, cause I posted my comments on the show, WHICH I SAW.

How old are ?? Christianity is not the only religion out there, DUUUHHH.

LOLyou're IGNORANT You make alot of stupid judgements....

You haven't even seen GAME OVER and you're calling me a hypocrite?

AHAHAH, F'er! making a judgement without reading the thread. Fool.

Oh please report me to the moderator for being offensive, cause you need to be offended.

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by AlbertArt

How old are ?? Christianity is not the only religion out there, DUUUHHH.

LOLyou're IGNORANT You make alot of stupid judgements....



AHAHAH, F'er! making a judgement without reading the thread. Fool.

Oh please report me to the moderator for being offensive, cause you need to be offended.

No offense taken. So what you're saying the oldest religion is the correct one?

[F3EF73]

AYE TACOS!

If the ass looked like it did in the ANIMATRIX, then I would have liked to see it, but with those characters in Game Over, I wouldn't give a crud.

Thanks


The episode had its funny moments, like the SUBBY instead of subway, etc. I don't think its very different from the material on the Simpsons, actually, i think the Simpsons has their characters tell edgier material. ALso the lipsync, needs work, or maybe they ran out of time, or couldn't spend alot of time on the syncing.

Whats up with all this essay style flame war posts? Damn long enough.


GAME OVER, i hope it lives long on UPN, at least 4 seasons.

Actually I did read it, forgetful me. Your opinon seem to have changed though.

[AlbertArt]

Actually I did read it, forgetful me. Your opinon seem to have changed though.

Please stop trying to cover up your stupidity. My comment was regarding the ASS. YOU ASS. My view on the show in that first post was clearly positive. Both quotes were positive, so why did you bother posting again? Don't you know how to read? Or better yet, don't you know how to interpret words? You just want to get the last word on this thread... like that means alot:rolleyes:

[F3EF73]

Originally posted by AlbertArt
Please stop trying to cover up your stupidity. My comment was regarding the ASS. YOU ASS. My view on the show in that first post was clearly positive. Both quotes were positive, so why did you bother posting again? Don't you know how to read? Or better yet, don't you know how to interpret words? You just want to get the last word on this thread... like that means alot:rolleyes:

"had its funny moments"
"I don't think its very different from the material on the Simpsons"
"the Simpsons has their characters tell edgier material"
"lipsync, needs work"
"couldn't spend alot of time on the syncing"

<purposely left blank>

[AlbertArt]

YAWN:surprised Is there a reason you left out the rest of the post... there you go again, taking little bits of a post, attempting to twist the original meaning.

BOooooRING.:wise:

[F3EF73]

You win. Said enough.

[parallax]

lol.
Religious clouds:applause:

I have to remember that next time i point to the sky.

[MCGrund]

Man, this thread is getting stupider and more off topic every time I return. From a censored cg butt, to censorship in general (which wasn't off topic imo), to politics, to religion. Though I have to admit that some posts are really funny, yeeha.

All this religious talking and the developpement of this thread show perfectly how nothing causes so many wars as religion does. These are my 2 cents (Euro of course).

[ShinChanPu]

Originally posted by twisted-ankle

All this religious talking and the developpement of this thread show perfectly how nothing causes so many wars as religion does. These are my 2 cents (Euro of course).

Touché. ;)

[Valkyrien]

*pops in*

oh, i see you're still all bitching about last week's news ( :bowdown: )

how's about some discussion of the show?:)

*dives for cover*

[Soeren Nielsen]

seems to me like, if you gave a certain person in here a brick, and TOLD him that it was a brick, he would disagree.
Absolutely no point in arguing about it anymore. Im just looking forward to the show to air here sometime in the next century.

All this religious talking and the developpement of this thread show perfectly how nothing causes so many wars as religion does. These are my 2 cents (Euro of course).

Now aint that the truth, I guess Im in trouble now, cause I accidentally looked at those religious puffy clouds... Damn you puffy clouds!

[Valkyrien]

*looks at the clouds*


ahhh! my eyes!!! my eyes have been soiled!!!

religious clouds....sheesh, even Fallwell's not THAT stupid:rolleyes:

[Valkyrien]

"when someone comes to your door at 10am on a sunday to ask you if you've found jesus, don't you just wanna come ot the door nude and say 'no! comehelp my look for him!'"

~Robin Williams

[parallax]

So..


How about some Jello Cups?:bounce:

[Dougs]

Originally posted by Valkyrien
"when someone comes to your door at 10am on a sunday to ask you if you've found jesus, don't you just wanna come ot the door nude and say 'no! comehelp my look for him!'"

~Robin Williams



Yes my master, you've done well.:D

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