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LittleFenris
03-09-2004, 01:50 PM
I currently have an XFX nVidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB card. I am wondering how much of an improvement the FX 5600 256MB card would be over my current setup?

Basically the ONLY thing the computer gets used for is Lightwave (7.5 for now...8 when its out) and After Effects. Of course I also use Photoshop and Illustrator, but this is mainly a 3D only machine...no games or anything like that (actually i lied...i installed a few demo games to put the new setup through its paces :)). And I'm not spending a stupid amount on a "pro" graphics card...a waste of money for me as a hobbyist. The reason I ask about the FX 5600 is I found a deal for $149 brand new.

Para
03-09-2004, 02:04 PM
Well...if you can't afford anything else, then yes. Otherwise, no.

There's lots of reviews around the 'net, just Google a bit. You can also use Futuremark's ORB (http://service.futuremark.com/servlet/Index?pageid=/orb/login) (Online Result Browser) to compare the speed of you current card to others. Do note that if you don't download the 3DMark03 benchmarking program and run it at least once, you can't do exact comparison.

LittleFenris
03-09-2004, 02:09 PM
You gotta register to see that...I've given way to many sites my info as it is...can you tell me if there is a comparison between my current card and this one i asked about?

And I can afford something else, but I don't see the point in spending a stupid amount of money on a video card when 3D is just a hobby for me. I just thought for $99 if its quite a bit better (twice the RAM and all) that it would be worth it. :shrug:

Castius
03-09-2004, 02:24 PM
You won't see much of a improvment from a 4200 to a 5200. I wouldn't buy anything less than a 5600 from the FX series if i could avoid it. I'm waiting for my new video to arive I got the 5900 xt it was $180 and it will be more than worth it. Look on http://www.pricewatch.com/

Scott

Chaz
03-09-2004, 02:32 PM
From what I hear, the 5200 is in the same class as the Geforce 2/4MX, so as stated above...the 5600 and up would be your best bet...else you might be taking a step down.

I got a 5600XT 256M for about $85 on ebay recently, so if you look you can find a good deal. The card is great!!

ostov
03-09-2004, 02:42 PM
You should not even think about gf5200. The gf4200 and the gf5600 almost got the same speed, I think 5600 beats it in dx9 testes... Wait before buying, they are coming with some new stuff in april I think. It will be much more powerfull :)

Chaz
03-09-2004, 02:47 PM
The new NVIDIA cards that are coming out are supposed to be PCI-X cards, so if you're looking for AGP...now could be time to buy.

policarpo
03-09-2004, 02:58 PM
Keep your current card, save your money and save a little more for fPrime.

fPrime will be more of a benefit than a new video card.

Plus...I had a Geforce 3 Ti 200 on my old P3 450 that just screamed.

Suricate
03-09-2004, 03:22 PM
On the projectMessiah page here (http://www.projectmessiah.com/x2/system_req.htm)
they strongly recommend NOT to use the FX5200 with messiah. I don't know whether that is a driver issue or whether that means anything for the use with LightWave or Photoshop, but that would definitely make me think.

LittleFenris
03-09-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by policarpo
Keep your current card, save your money and save a little more for fPrime.

fPrime will be more of a benefit than a new video card.

Plus...I had a Geforce 3 Ti 200 on my old P3 450 that just screamed.

Good suggestion poli. My current card is having no problems with Lightwave so far, but I haven't done any character animation or complex scenes yet, so I was just wondering. The PC its on is a P3 800Mhz with 512MBs or RAM. I bet the PC itself is more of a bottleneck than anything at this point. :blush: I have considered upgrading the mobo, RAM and processor recently.

Para
03-09-2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Suricate
On the projectMessiah page here (http://www.projectmessiah.com/x2/system_req.htm)
they strongly recommend NOT to use the FX5200 with messiah. I don't know whether that is a driver issue or whether that means anything for the use with LightWave or Photoshop, but that would definitely make me think.

I think it has something to do with the fact that it's almost faster to draw images by hand than let fx5200 draw them.

Of course, if you're not scared and/or feel adventurous, get a Radeon. I'm not promising a 100% proof OGL performance, but...well, it's a choise.

policarpo
03-09-2004, 04:21 PM
Your GeForce 4 card is probably the best setup you can hope for with your current system specs.

A new card definitely will not help you (unless you went for a Quadro 4 or a FireGL card).

I'd just squirrel that money away until you are ready to upgrade your MB and Processor...and then look at getting a new video card.

Cheers.

LittleFenris
03-09-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by policarpo
Your GeForce 4 card is probably the best setup you can hope for with your current system specs.

I'd just squirrel that money away until you are ready to upgrade your MB and Processor...and then look at getting a new video card.

Yeah. I was looking at getting a P4 3.0Ghz with 2GBs of RAM and using a lot of my existing hardware like the video card, sound card, HDDs, etc... Basically just buying a new case, mobo, processor and RAM.

policarpo
03-09-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by LittleFenris
Yeah. I was looking at getting a P4 3.0Ghz with 2GBs of RAM and using a lot of my existing hardware like the video card, sound card, HDDs, etc... Basically just buying a new case, mobo, processor and RAM.

That sounds like a very good plan. Your GeForce 4 in that new system config will hold you over for quite some time as well.

LittleFenris
03-09-2004, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by policarpo
That sounds like a very good plan. Your GeForce 4 in that new system config will hold you over for quite some time as well.

Any suggestions on the best (reliable) mobo brand? I was looking at Soyo or Asus. As for RAM I was looking at PC3200 DDR RAM. Figure best bang for the buck is four 512MB chips so I need a mobo that will support 4 PC3200 chips, a P43.0Ghz with HT and I don't need onboard sound since I have a SB Audigy Gamer 5.1 surround card (PCI).

Also, what is the PCI-X that people are talking about with the upcoming nVidia cards?

policarpo
03-09-2004, 05:36 PM
Also look at MSI for MB's...they make nice tech. :)

samartin
03-09-2004, 05:40 PM
The other thing to do is hold off maybe a while longer, if you have pre-ordered LW8 that is. They claim oGL improvements so maybe your existing spec will do just fine :shrug:

LittleFenris
03-09-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by samartin
The other thing to do is hold off maybe a while longer, if you have pre-ordered LW8 that is. They claim oGL improvements so maybe your existing spec will do just fine :shrug:

I haven't preordered it, but I will be buying it when it comes out. No point having my money tied up in something that I have no clue when it will be out, ya know? But I am definitely buying LW8. :thumbsup:

Para
03-09-2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by LittleFenris
Also, what is the PCI-X that people are talking about with the upcoming nVidia cards?

Not PCI-X, PCI Express. PCI-X is old tech.

It's basically yet another way to plug an extension card to a computer, just like ISA/PCI/AGP. From users point of view it has no meaning except that PCI Express won't of course accept AGP or any other type of cards.

PS. ATi was first with PCI Express, nVidia just made a big fuss about it ;)

TheAlfheim
03-09-2004, 08:06 PM
Hi All......

Ive been able to put a little cash away for a little while, so I'm thinking of sinking some money into a "LW machine" soon. So, along these lines, Ive got a question......

Isnt render speed solely dependant upon raw processor speed (and memory only factoring in when the final frame size fits within the segment memory limit) ?

I was under the impression that the video card would mainly help with things like modeling? Is there more to it? I can see how it'd help in layout too, now that I think of it.

So, to be more general, where's peoples preferences?
Processor speed, graphics card, extra RAM, other?


Cheers,
Andrew

Para
03-09-2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by TheAlfheim
Isnt render speed solely dependant upon raw processor speed (and memory only factoring in when the final frame size fits within the segment memory limit) ?

Yes. LW does not utilize GPU rendering.

I was under the impression that the video card would mainly help with things like modeling? Is there more to it? I can see how it'd help in layout too, now that I think of it.

Video card renders real time stuff, in this case the 2D GUI of Windows/MacOS/whatever and OpenGL viewports of LW (both Modeler and Layout). So, a video card with more OGL power gives you better feedback and more polies to rotate and mangle at 25FPS in viewports than another video card with less power but as I already said, LW doesn't utilize GPU rendering so video card doesn't make your computer render faster the final images.

Processor speed, graphics card, extra RAM, other?

I'd pick processor speed (do not let yourself be fooled by pure MHz counts, they lie) and extra RAM.

pelos
03-09-2004, 08:45 PM
jaja the other day a friend gave me his card, hercules 2, (chipset geoforce2) and before i have a geoforce2 mx,
i dont think the benefits in % will
be equal to the % of money to spend

i dont think you will needing that card, but if you have the money and want a new puppy to play with, give yourself a present every now and then it make of feel humans again!!! jaja:p

nismoS132
03-09-2004, 08:51 PM
just a silly question.

do integrated VGA cards affect rendering speed?
or do they only affect viewport draw speed?

my old PC just went dead after half a year of disuse. i've been thinking of getting an extremely bare system just for rendering, just the mobo, p4 and 512 RAM, my old HDD is probably still useable.

the old card is a geforceDDR. not sure if it's alive.

Para
03-10-2004, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by nismoS132
do integrated VGA cards affect rendering speed?
or do they only affect viewport draw speed?

No, it does not affect rendering speed, only viewport draw speed. :)

nismoS132
03-10-2004, 06:00 AM
woot :scream:

LittleFenris
03-25-2004, 01:33 PM
OK, I was playing a demo of a game called Far Cry and it was choking on the high graphics settings...I don't see how that is possible since I just upgraded to a P4 3.0Ghz and 1.5GBs of RAM with my 128MB GF4 Ti4200 video card. I was wondering what you all thought of the nVidia GeForce FX 5600 256MB video card? I figure 256MBs of video RAM can't hurt for Lightwave as well and at $150 it seems like a good deal. Plus I can put my current video card back in the older PC I took a bunch of parts from to build the new system.

E_Moelzer
03-25-2004, 01:39 PM
Hey!
I am using the FX5200 here without any problems.
It is not that slow and certainly a lot faster than the Gef3 ti200, that I had before that. Actually I think that speed is pretty much OK with LW.
However, if I was to buy a new graphics- card now, I would wait for the 5500, which is almost as fast as the FX 5600, but just as cheap as the 5200.
CU
Elmar

LittleFenris
03-25-2004, 02:13 PM
I guess I'm just annoyed that I just upgraded my PC from a P3 800Mhz with 512MBs of RAM to a P4 3.0Ghz HT with 1.5GBs of RAM and it can't handle this game on high settings. Plus I need a video card for the other machine so it will work again, so I figured I could upgrade my video card in the new system and put the 128MB card in the old system (that worked perfectly fine, I just upgraded cause I could, not cause I needed to :)).

Jonathan
03-25-2004, 02:59 PM
I am using a GF 5600 w/256 mb RAM. It's an okay card. I've got no problems with it. It runs KOTOR pretty good, I've been playing UT2K4 demo without a hitch. I runs pretty well with Messiah:Animate but there are a few OGL refresh issues with the lightwave and modeler. Nothing major, just a slight annoyance. Still I'm looking at the 5900XT for my next upgrade. I would have liked to have had more ram but I made the error of getting cheap ram and it only lasted 6 months. So I forked out the doe and did what I should have done in the first place and bought registered memory from crucial. The pipe between lightwave and messiah is extremely sensitive.

LittleFenris
03-25-2004, 03:14 PM
Jonathan, are you running the latest 56.06 drivers from nVidia on that card? I'm curious about the LW OGL issues. My current system runs the Unreal Tournament Demo perfectly fine (on all the highest settings), its just the Far Cry demo that chokes on the high settings (wow, what a game even on medium settings though!!). I am running 1.5GBs of dual channel PC3200 DDR RAM from Kingston. I actually have 2GBs, but with all 4 chips in the mobo I got the mobo (DFI Infinity) won't start (with 3 its fine though). It's a known issue according to the mobo maker (wish i knew before i bought it) but they said its just a BIOS thing and they are working on an update to fix it. :shrug:

Also, what is the difference between a 5600 and a 5600XT? XFX has a 5600 for $150 and Chaintech has a 5600XT for the same price.

Orkman
03-25-2004, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Para
Yes. LW does not utilize GPU rendering.


Ok this answers some of my questions. Does RAM affect render speed as well? Is it a mix between processor and RAM, or processor alone?



Thanks.

LittleFenris
03-25-2004, 06:00 PM
I believe rendering is completely dependant on the processor. All RAM is for is to handle larger scenes with more objects, or more complex objects easier.

Para
03-25-2004, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by LittleFenris
I was wondering what you all thought of the nVidia GeForce FX 5600 256MB video card?

If you really want to get the fastest possible game experience in Far Cry, you have to go for ATi. As said before (not in this thread possibly, I don't have time to check), nVidia just can't handle DX9 stuff respectfully. So, the choice is between work and play now.

About RAM...The amount of RAM affects the speed between hitting F10 and the actual rendering starting. If you're doing an animation, the "quiet" time between frames will be shorter too.

Jonathan
03-25-2004, 06:19 PM
I probably don't Fenris. I'm very lazy about driver updates because often when I do Premier auto-updates, I get crashes so I don't update much. I did do an online update for my card but I'm not quite sure which driver it is. I updated like december last year so there probably is a newer driver out.

Good question about XT? I'm not quite sure what the difference is. It's what I've always seen when looking at the 5900 boards. HHHMMMMM!!!! Perhaps I need to look into that.

Maybe it stands for Xtra Trouble :P

LittleFenris
03-25-2004, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Jonathan
I probably don't Fenris. I'm very lazy about driver updates because often when I do Premier auto-updates, I get crashes so I don't update much. I did do an online update for my card but I'm not quite sure which driver it is. I updated like december last year so there probably is a newer driver out.

Yeah I think there have been a few updates since then. 56.06 is the latest. If you do a Windows update I think the latest you get for XP are 52.??. I forget the exact #.

Para, I choose work over play in this case. Far Cry is still a crazy game even on medium graphic settings on my nVidia...very beautiful game. But I would rather have nVidia for there OGL support and constant driver updates as Lightwave is the main reason I upgraded the system in the first place. I just wanted to toss a couple new games on the computer to see how it handled them. It handled UT2004 w/o a problem, but Far Cry made my video card cry. :) Oh well. I still might consider the 5600 256MB card since I wanna get my old computer up and running again since there was nothing wrong with it in the first place.

Ramon
03-25-2004, 07:37 PM
Hey guys, I bought a PNY Nvidia FX 5200 from Best Buy. I still have the receipt and I haven't opened it yet. Now, from reading your posts (thank goodness for you all) I may return this card and either wait for the new Nvidia cards you all mentioned that are about to come out or either just jump to a Quardo FX 1000, 1100 or Quadro 900xgl.
Might also look at the ATI 8900 pro.
Hey guys, what do you all think I should look into? Now that I have changed my mind on this card, I might as well go for a card that can handle large scenes (1 million polys with a few textures) with smooth, fast tumbling in open GL.
Am I fooling myself? Any of the cards I mentioned get even close to that? I heard the FX 1000 has overheating issues.

Thanks guys.

LittleFenris
03-25-2004, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Ramon
Hey guys, I bought a PNY Nvidia FX 5200 from Best Buy. I still have the receipt and I haven't opened it yet. Now, from reading your posts (thank goodness for you all) I may return this card and either wait for the new Nvidia cards you all mentioned that are about to come out or either just jump to a Quardo FX 1000, 1100 or Quadro 900xgl. Might also look at the ATI 8900 pro.

If you want this card for Lightwave I would go with nVidia, whichever you choose. I have heard ATIs OpenGL support is no where near as good as nVidia's when it comes to Lightwave. Maybe try an nVidia FX 5700 or 5900 256MB?

Ramon
03-25-2004, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by LittleFenris
If you want this card for Lightwave I would go with nVidia, whichever you choose. I have heard ATIs OpenGL support is no where near as good as nVidia's when it comes to Lightwave. Maybe try an nVidia FX 5700 or 5900 256MB?

Thanks Fenris. eah, I heard that about ATI's cards/drivers but, my old ATI rage pro card (32mb ram) is running without any glitches in LW 7.5. I am concerned about Jonathan's re-draw glitches on his Nvidia card. Maybe it's just his older driver. None the less, a bit un-nerving.

LittleFenris
03-25-2004, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by Ramon
Thanks Fenris. eah, I heard that about ATI's cards/drivers but, my old ATI rage pro card (32mb ram) is running without any glitches in LW 7.5. I am concerned about Jonathan's re-draw glitches on his Nvidia card. Maybe it's just his older driver. None the less, a bit un-nerving.

Well, I've got an XFX nVidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB card and I have never had any problems in Lightwave with it so I can't imagine a newer card having problems. Might be his drivers or setup. (I have the latest drivers straight from nVidia BTW.)

Chaz
03-25-2004, 09:35 PM
I've had a lot of experience in this arena... I just installed the 5600 256MB in an Athlon 2Ghz (and it runs beautifully!!) but had the opportunity to snag a Radeon 9600 for $120 for a spare Athlon I had... 2ghz as well.

Lightwave and XSI love the 5600, and games run pretty nicely too...Halo and Battefield Vietnam look great on them.

With the 9600, I've had some OpenGL errors in Lightwave Layout that don't show up with the 5600. It's mostly harmless stuff...subpatches not showing up for no apparent reason... annoying, but not a big deal. Check out the image below to see what I'm talking about.

Surprsingly, I loaded up Halo on the 9600 and noticed a nice increase in framerate. It looks the same as the NVIDIA image, but runs a bit faster. Guess it comes down to priorities!!

BTW, if you're considering the 5600, keep a look out for the 5700 as well, they're about the same price but a little faster.

http://www.vertex-media.com/images/misc/dexter.gif

Ramon
03-25-2004, 10:12 PM
Wow thanks for the detailed info guys.
So the 5700 would be the fastest of Nvidia's mid-ranged cards?
If these mid-range cards are up to 256mb then what is all the big deal with the FX1000-3000 line of cards? I mean obviously, it has much to do with the actual processor on the card because the ram has much more to do with texture capacity/layers but, is it just a big difference in speed or is the higher price for the FX1000-3000 series justified do to a much faster card or the fact (if so) that their drivers are tested and qualified by DCC apps?

Thanks for the great info guys.

Orkman
03-25-2004, 11:17 PM
Dexter's Laboratory. SWEET! :buttrock:

I run LW on my MAC with Radeon 9800, and have had no problems. Should I assume LW 8.0 will run just as well?

Ramon
03-25-2004, 11:25 PM
Orkman, That's good news. hope all goes well for you in LW8.

Orkman
03-25-2004, 11:30 PM
I do too Ramon. Otherwise I'll be coughing up more moolah for an nVidia, and the MAC side in video cards is so expensive!

I did download the latest driver for the 9800 if it means anything.

Chaz
03-26-2004, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Orkman
Dexter's Laboratory. SWEET! :buttrock:

I run LW on my MAC with Radeon 9800, and have had no problems. Should I assume LW 8.0 will run just as well?

Haha...Dex is almost ready for the Gallery page...this was a preview. My main Lightwave machine is a G5 2Ghz with the 9600...aside from a few minor glitches, it's a great card. Here's hoping 8 works well with it!

architook
03-26-2004, 12:39 AM
LightWave doesn't depend on video card power very much. LW 8 is supposed to improve this, but certainly in LW 7 you won't see much difference among cards (even very low end ones.) CPU speed is much much more important especially for boned characters and expressions and IK rigs.

However looking to the future. video cards in general will certainly be more and more useful. My personal opinion is to get a mid-range GeForce card, maybe the 5700. But even the 5200 is good. Prefer more RAM on the card to a faster one.

Why RAM? Because unlike games, 3D apps tend to want to map a lot of images.

Why Nvidia GeForce instad of ATI? because GeForce is 32 bit floating point. ATI is only 24. I don't know of many apps where the difference currently matters, but I bet that it WILL matter a lot when the cards are used more and more for rendering. the Nvidia cards can do the exact same (32 bit) floating point calculations LW itself uses. ATI's cannot, at least not yet.

Ramon
03-26-2004, 02:06 AM
Ok guys, I did some checking on Tom's hardware.com and it says that the FX 5900 is faster than the ATI 9800 pro, BUT the two are in tight competition ALTHOUGH,.... the Nvidia FX 5900 is considerably louder than the ATI. That stinks. Sounds like that has be a problem with several Nvidia cards.
I like my cards to be relatively quite and very fast.
I might then go for the ATI 9800 pro. Those of you who have the 9800 pro; are you experiencing the same redraw glitches that others have had with other types of ATI cards?
Thanks for all the help guys.

Signal2Noise
03-26-2004, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by LittleFenris
...Also, what is the PCI-X that people are talking about with the upcoming nVidia cards?


PCI Express. You can read an interview with the Chairman of the Board that writes the spec for this stuff here (http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/showtell/story/0,24330,3649748,00.html) . You can then click on the links in the article to find out more info on this new breed of slots.

Not mentioned in the interview but on the show, of which I watched, Pierce stated that PCI Express will be available within the next couple of months. He also suggested for folks to hold off buying mobo's spec'd with PCI Express until around the fall or winter. By then software, drivers, and hardware will have caught up to the demand and the bugs at the consumer level will be ironed out. Sounds promising tho'!:thumbsup:

Orkman
03-26-2004, 03:42 AM
Describe the redraw issue Ramon. I will say that when I go into subdiv mode on a more complex object it slows way down...but I think that is because it is 4xAGP on my MAC. I wouldn't think much other than I have seen it faster on PC with 8xAGP speed. G5 prolly screams.

I hesitate to say much more about 9800 since I am not a very knowledgeable hardware guy. But it has worked great for me.

nvvm
03-26-2004, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by architook
Why Nvidia GeForce instad of ATI? because GeForce is 32 bit floating point. ATI is only 24. I don't know of many apps where the difference currently matters, but I bet that it WILL matter a lot when the cards are used more and more for rendering. the Nvidia cards can do the exact same (32 bit) floating point calculations LW itself uses. ATI's cannot, at least not yet. you need to educate yourself on that a bit more your facts are off.

Para
03-26-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by architook
Why Nvidia GeForce instad of ATI? because GeForce is 32 bit floating point. ATI is only 24. I don't know of many apps where the difference currently matters, but I bet that it WILL matter a lot when the cards are used more and more for rendering. the Nvidia cards can do the exact same (32 bit) floating point calculations LW itself uses. ATI's cannot, at least not yet.

Yes, nVidia CAN do 16bit and 32bit. ATi can do only 24bit.

No, nVidia does NOT utilize 32bit rendering in ANY situation BECAUSE "GFFX on 32bit" could be thought as a definition for the word "slow". GFFX drops every single possible 32bit operation to 16bit operation and this results in incorrect rendering. This is what the true gamers have been fighting against since the release of GFFX.
nVidia has possibly the world's most powerful PR machine on it's side and this has caused numerous problems with the people who've thought that their brand new GFFX 5900 Ultra will run [insert DX9 title here] fast. Also the AA and Anisotropic Filtering is just ugly on any level when compared to ATi's correspondent AA/AF levels. In addition, GFFX takes about 30% performance hit from each AA level when ATi takes only 5-10% performance hit (not real numbers, just pointers to show the difference).
This is why I hope nVidia won't get a foothold on GPU rendering at all in CG industry. They just can't do it right.

Besides, OpenGL is 24bit, it doesn't have alpha (at least I haven't heard of it).

LittleFenris
03-26-2004, 09:01 PM
Well, i think I might just go with the FX5600 since i wanna get my other machine working again, and I refuse to use an ATI card. I have never had any problems with my nVidia cards (had 3 of them on different machines so far) or their drivers. I'll put the 256MB card in the new machine and the 128MB card back in the older one. Then all I need is a hard drive and a couple cables to get it up and running again.

Jonathan
03-26-2004, 09:15 PM
Good Call Little Fenris.

I really don't care about all of this techno-babble because 90% of it, I don't understandy anyway. What I do understand however is ATI's past and piss poor handling of OpenGL. Wasn't it a driver issue or somthing? I really am not sure and I don't really care. When I run Messiah:Animate, I want to see what's in my text feilds. When I was running my 9000, & 9200 boards, I had nothing but trouble. It was then I decided to simply drop ATI all together and get a nvidia board. Haven't looked back ever since.

Ramon
03-26-2004, 11:52 PM
Well, I returned my fx 5200 and was seriously concidering purchasing the 9800 pro but, at $300, I thought I would just hold off on cards just now and wait to see what happens this weekend. I might get hired for a full time (hopefully very well paying) animation job. I'm praying for that. If so, then I'll need to step it up with an Nvidia Quadro FX-1100.

Para
03-27-2004, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by Jonathan
What I do understand however is ATI's past and piss poor handling of OpenGL. Wasn't it a driver issue or somthing?

Yes. Terry Makedon (the leader of ATi's driver department, aka "Catalyst Maker") told me and several others that before the R300 core (= the new Radeons) ATi didn't have any kind of interest towards drivers, but it changed dramatically when they started releasing Catalyst drivers. At the moment a new set of drivers comes out every 4 weeks containing as much bug fixes as possible.

ATis OpenGL aint so bad anymore, but it could be better.


Ramon, good call. The next generation of GFX cards is coming very soon and you'll never know what kind of cards those will be.

Ramon
03-27-2004, 01:11 PM
Thanks Para, I hope so. Does anyone have a general time frame as to when those new cards are coming out?

Para
03-27-2004, 03:23 PM
I'm not sure actually, but I think it will take only couple of months.

oxyg3n
03-28-2004, 07:26 AM
Hi ALl,

I am using a geforcefx 5900 ultra with 256 megs of ram. It runs LW and Xsi wonderfully. It is just a little noisy. That is my only complaint about it.

Para
03-28-2004, 07:29 AM
Is XSI D3D or OGL?

oxyg3n
03-28-2004, 08:23 AM
XSI is ogl.

The only thing that doesnt seem to work right with xsi and my geforece 5900ultra is that when I enable aa or af filtering on my card it make it near imposible to use raycast edges or any other selection method. So, I just have to leave those options disbaled on my video card.

Para
03-28-2004, 09:50 AM
Well, I think that's normal behaviour since GFFX can't handle AA/AF very well at all unlike Radeons.

How noisy exactly is your card? I've heard the noise created by "dust buster" 5200 but not the newer ones...

oxyg3n
03-28-2004, 06:55 PM
I have a thermaltake case with 6 quiet 80mm fans. Once the geforce5900 starts up it is the only fan I hear!

It handles aa and af fine in LW and in games, but there is something about XSI that doesnt like those settings (it just makes selecting things difficult.) That is the only problem I have with it and XSI everything else is fine.

My roommate had a 9800 pro and he had to take it back because it was completely unusable in XSI. And the support forum for xsi is filled with people having difficulties with radeons and XSI.

For professional 3d you are safest to stick with nvidia.

Para
03-29-2004, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by oxyg3n
For professional 3d you are safest to stick with nvidia.

So true. For work, choose nVidia. For games, choose ATi.

oxyg3n
03-29-2004, 04:52 AM
Yes I agree too.

Ati for games nvidia for work.

But my 5900 plays game to my satisfaction too.

LittleFenris
03-29-2004, 02:24 PM
OK, for some reason I can't get any of my nVidia drivers to work with XP now. I have installed them plenty of times before on my old system, but on this new system the only ones that don't completely trash the system and make Windows not run are the ones that Windows Update installs from 10/6/03...version 5.2.1.6 or 52.16 to you nVidia peeps I think. I tried installing the latest 56.?? and I even tried 41.09 from way back when on my new system this weekend and they both locked it up to the point I had to restore Windows...and the latest ones even forced me to reinstall Windows. I have NEVER had this problem before this new system. I'm even using the same nVidia card I had in the old system.

Any ideas? :shrug:

Para
03-29-2004, 02:41 PM
You did remove the old drivers before installing new ones, right?

LittleFenris
03-29-2004, 02:45 PM
Yeah, I installed the new ones right after installing a fresh copy of Windows on the machine so there were never any nVidia drivers on the machine before that. Although in the past I haven't uninstalled the old drivers...oops.

MooseDog
03-29-2004, 03:30 PM
I just upgraded to a P4 3.0Ghz and 1.5GBs of RAM with my 128MB GF4 Ti4200 video card.................... Plus I can put my current video card back in the older PC I took a bunch of parts from to build the new system

sounds familiar:wavey: glad you got the new one together and running, congrats:thumbsup:

LittleFenris
03-29-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by MooseDog
sounds familiar:wavey: glad you got the new one together and running, congrats:thumbsup:

Thanks, the system runs REALLY smooth...and FAST! Only problem right now is the newest nVidia drivers are crashing Windows if I install them, and the motherboard I got (DFI Infinity) won't let me install all 4 of my 512MB RAM chips. 1.5GBs (3 of them) are fine, but all 4 (2GBs) and the motherboard won't start. It's a known problem according to DFI, but I can't get anyone to respond to emails or calls if there are new BIOS to fix the problem. I'm a bit annoyed with the company and wish I had done with ASUS or Soyo or something. Its a great mobo with awesome features, but I ordered 2GBs of RAM cause it said the mobo could handle 4GBs, yet it doesn't cause with all 4 slots filled the mobo won't even start. ugh I'm going to call and bitch at them today and I want an answer. I want all 2GBs of RAM I paid for installed and working properly.

MooseDog
03-29-2004, 05:17 PM
the ASUS does the same thing, sorta. the manual sez that when all four sockets are populated with 1GB DIMMS, the system will detect only three GB due to "ICH5R resource allocation". dunno, might help. although if your mobo just up and refuses to go, they have a pretty serious problem. do they have a BIOS update available on their website?

the nvidia thing is confusing, huh? here's a mistake i made: doublecheck the BIOS to ensure that the AGP is activated/recognized and running. i happily skipped over that part :applause: and only later figured out my brilliance.

good luck:thumbsup:

LittleFenris
03-29-2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by MooseDog
do they have a BIOS update available on their website?

here's a mistake i made: doublecheck the BIOS to ensure that the AGP is activated/recognized and running.

According to the first and only tech support person they said that there are beta BIOS for the other models of mobos they make that fix this RAM problem, but he wasn't sure about my mobo. So it seems luckily its just a BIOS issue so I'll just hang in there with 1.5GBs of RAM until there is an update for the BIOS that fixes it. I'm too lazy to take apart the whole system to send this mobo back for a different one. :shrug:

And yeah, the AGP is enabled and working in the BIOS. Not sure wtf the problem is with the nVidia drivers. Luckily Windows Update has version 52.16 drivers that work fine on the computer. :) I also went ahead and downloaded the 52.16 drivers from nVidias site so I won't have to use Windows Update if I need to ever reinstall Windows again...and I know those drivers work with XP.

Thanks for the advice. I just gotta sit back and wait til DFI gets off there butts and fixes the BIOS for my RAM problem. :hmm:

oxyg3n
03-29-2004, 05:34 PM
Did you install the latest service pack for winXP and all the critical updates, after you reinstalled it??

Try that.

LittleFenris
03-29-2004, 05:39 PM
I have done all the critical updates and SPs and all that now. When I first reinstalled Windows I hadn't done the updates and the nVidia drivers crashed the machine everytime. I'm afraid to try the newest drivers now cause it took me all damned day to reinstall all my software, drivers and all that. :surprised

Orkman
03-29-2004, 05:44 PM
Ok I am paranoid about Radeons and OGL issues now. What problems in LW should I be looking for? The only thing I have noticed is that in modeler when I rotate the object when it's in Subdiv mode it's slower than my nVidia at work.

I don't notice anything else that is a problem. Can anyone enlighten me on OGL issues or what redraw issues the ATIs seem to be prone to? What I should expect to see?

Thanks. What a great thread. Very educational.

Para
03-30-2004, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Orkman
I don't notice anything else that is a problem. Can anyone enlighten me on OGL issues or what redraw issues the ATIs seem to be prone to? What I should expect to see?

Two issues with ATi&LW I've noticed:

Cursor redraw problem - when you select, alt-tab to another application, move or rotate any viewport, the cursor will leave a trail of itself to screen. It "disappears" though when you do something I already listed again...or actually just changes place :P

The second issue is a shading issue in Modeler OGL. Materials with basic color and some specularity sometimes get a nice blocky look, kinda like smoothshaded polies with flat shaded specularity. I have no idea what causes this but because it only happens in Modeler, I don't mind.

Orkman
03-30-2004, 03:20 PM
Thanks Para,

I haven't seen either of those so I'll cross my fingers it works well with LW 8.0!

LittleFenris
03-30-2004, 04:39 PM
I don't know wtf is going on with my computer, but ANY nVidia drivers (even the ones from Windows Update now) seem to lock up Windows to the point it won't even start in anything but Safe Mode. The weird thing is both times this has happened I tried installing a floppy drive in the computer and immediately after that this happens. When I start Windows in Safe Mode it tells me the nVidia display drivers seem to be causing the conflicts, so I uninstall the drivers and the computer starts back up fine. Problem with this is I can only run 1024x768 at 32bit and I can't install the monitors drivers to change the refresh rate. :(

Anyone have a clue why this would be happening?

BTW, I am running Windows XP Professional with all the updates and service packs.

Jonathan
03-30-2004, 04:47 PM
I still run win2K on my desktop. The only machine that I have with XP on it is my Notebook.

Still I have a similar problem with my hp drivers for my fax/printer. It causes win2K to crash with blue screen of death if I boot with it on. Sometimes when I turn it on while windows is running, it crashes with blue screen of death or it just causes the machine to reboot and then crash to blue screen of death. Then other times it works and boots just fine. It's the craziest thing. I thought it was a virus at first but installed the drivers on a fresh machine and it did the same thing. I never did find a solution to the problem.

AAAHHHHHH the days of Windows NT. How bright they were.:cry:

LittleFenris
03-30-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Jonathan
AAAHHHHHH the days of Windows NT. How bright they were.:cry:

Thing is I never had a problem with XP and the nVidia drivers on the Dell I had before I upgraded (took a lot of parts from the Dell for the new machine). I am really regreting building a PC myself. Its been a complete PITA getting it running and staying running. Go Dell!!!!! I had that Dell together for years w/o one damned problem. I've had this custom built PC for like a week and its been nothing but a headache so far. Guess thats what I get for upgrading. :(

MooseDog
03-30-2004, 07:29 PM
a thought shaun; if you are booting the comp with a newly plugged in/installed drive of any sort, the BIOS may be automatically, behind your back, changing your boot configuration and creating the new drive you just installed as your bootable drive. ASUS at least does this tomfoolery.


go IMMEDIATELY to the BIOS from turning the comp on and check the boot configuration, and re-jigger it to your liking.

aahhh, i smell frustration:wip: . now go get'em:thumbsup:

LittleFenris
03-30-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by MooseDog
go IMMEDIATELY to the BIOS from turning the comp on and check the boot configuration, and re-jigger it to your liking.

aahhh, i smell frustration:wip: . now go get'em:thumbsup:

you sure thats frustration you're smelling?! :blush: Anyways, yeah, I'm frustrated. I mean my display drivers crash Windows for no apparent reason now...the floppy drive seems to cause the weirdness with the display drivers. I mean I need a floppy drive to flash the BIOS when they update them to fix my RAM problem (whenever that happens). I should have just stayed with the Dell...it worked w/o a hitch EVERY time I turned it on. :banghead:

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