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A.v.K.
03-08-2004, 05:32 PM
Hello,
here is my latest personal project. It started just as a shader test, but I had to add a scene and finish it.
All done in Cinema 4D v8.5 and Bodypaint 3D.
Please give me your C&C.

(Edit: I removed all old images and replaced them with the updated version. Thank you all very much for your comments and critics. I still have to fix some minor things, but I think it looks much better now because of your input.)

http://www.vreel-3d.de/WIP/busstop.jpg

Frank Dodd
03-08-2004, 07:20 PM
I know that feeling, you start out with a shader test and end up with a 20 minute animation :)

It's a very nice looking image well modelled and assembled, the scene seams to be seriously lacking some shadow detail at the moment though.

Which shaders were you testing?

cgg
03-08-2004, 07:38 PM
great texture work :thumbsup:
more shadows plz :wip:

A.v.K.
03-08-2004, 08:05 PM
Thanks a lot for your comments so far!
I rendered it in 2 passes, one for the background and one for the girl. I lightened up and desaturated the colors in photoshop to get a more fall season like appearance. Maybe I desaturated and brightened too much :-)
Here is the original version as it comes out of Cinema 4D. Better?

(Edit: Image removed for faster loading)

A.v.K.
03-08-2004, 08:14 PM
Sorry Frank, forgot to answer that shader question. I wrote some shaders for the skin and a plugin for the hair (my own type of SweepNURBS objects, if you are familiar with Cinema). Using Shave wasn't an option the time I modeled the girl as it was too slow and the AA wasn't as crisp as I wanted it to be. The new Shave version looks much better now, but I'm too happy with the hair as it looks like now to make it all over again ;-)
If you all still think the scene misses some shadows I'll have to rework the light setup. Please keep the C&Cs coming!

KnickKnack
03-08-2004, 08:19 PM
Good Modelling and texturing, bad lighting and composition. Try adding a direct light to cast some proper shadows; it all seems fairly flat and doesn't show off your impressive modelling and texturing skills.

A.v.K.
03-08-2004, 08:35 PM
Thanks KnickKnack,
I'll have a serious look at it and post some updates asap.

struve
03-08-2004, 08:52 PM
Cool! Writing your own hair plugin. I think the lighting looks fine, for the environment. Her face is over lit though. One thing that bothers me is the eyes. She looks drugged. I have to say the leaves and grass look real. And of course the hair is, Fantastic!

struve

A.v.K.
03-08-2004, 09:49 PM
Thanks struve.
I just wanted her to look like being sunken in thoughts (not drugs) while waiting for the next bus. Seems I missed that mark :-(
Could be that the specularity of her eyes is set too high. I'll have to re-check that with the new light setup later.

Btw. I just reduced the amount of ambient- and GI-lighting and strengthened the shadows (see new image within this post. No depth blur applied). I hope you all like this lighting more so I can apply it to the girl, too (she takes much longer to render, so I want to be sure about your thoughts first). Please let me know what you think about this change. Thanks again for your valuable feedback!

(Edit: Image removed for faster loading.)

EF
03-08-2004, 10:21 PM
That graffiti is almost impossible....I mean....It's too small to have so much details...you really need a thin spray-cap to make lines and fills like that.
there are such things as skinny-caps, but I doubt the can get soo skinny.
I know this is a bit nitpicky...but I was an graffiti-artist a couple of years ago so I couldn't help notice. :p


The rest of the textures are great!

flingster
03-08-2004, 10:25 PM
hey Arndt i actually prefer the pastel colour feel to the first image you posted...if it were me i'd extend or exagerate it even more...maybe that wasn't the intension but like the unusual look it has...no crits though bud...

(shaders...huh...hope i don't need to get my wallet ready...heh heh)
:beer:

tcastudios
03-08-2004, 10:59 PM
This is my -very- first attempt for giving CCīs so I might not be very good at it. I like the scene so I make a try. OK?.

So.
1- The basic idea is that she is "into" herself. The fact that she is the only character in the scene makes for a relationship between her and the viewer(us). So then she is not really alone. I am, as a viewer, there as well. I suggest putting a man sitting on the bench looking the other way (back in the scene) as well as someone pretty close behind her on the right side. Then she would be "alone" by herself and we are not "staring" at her.

2- The background on the second render ("Straight out of cinema)" looks darn good. My points would be: Have -some- sort of light, maybe the sun, shine at a part of the tree in the background from left, casting shadows on the busshouse as well(from something on the other side of the street).
That will bring in depth and a feeling of life away from her, I think. The only material looking strange is the glass of the busshouse and the clean upper part of the wall(no green dirt as it has in the lower part).

3- The "camera" seems very strange. I would suggest using the "Tiltcamera" so there is no fisheye distorsion. I think that would make the background more "calm" and "common" and add natural depth..
The "fisheye" might be the reason why her head looks to big, as well.

4- Put the trash as close as you can to the camera as a foreground object (To be slightly blurred). Put some trash in it.

5- The girl need to have some sort of light comming from the right to "cut her out" in the scene and have her own right side(our left) darkened to make contrast.

Cheers and sorry if I donīt make sense.....

Lennart

iXaarii
03-08-2004, 11:04 PM
I like the way her geans are done.

f3rry
03-09-2004, 03:07 AM
3- The "camera" seems very strange. I would suggest using the "Tiltcamera" so there is no fisheye distorsion. I think that would make the background more "calm" and "common" and add natural depth..
The "fisheye" might be the reason why her head looks to big, as well.


I agree with this. There is no reason/purpose of setting the camera this way.

Overall... its good

jcbray
03-09-2004, 05:50 AM
Is it just me, or are her eyelids a little big??? *goes looks in mirror*

That's the one thing that disturbs me about her though, other then that, i like it very much.

A.v.K.
03-09-2004, 11:10 AM
Wow, some great feedback so far! Thanks a ton.
I changed the light setup again and added some leave shadows. The camera (fishy lens ;-) is also fixed. You were so right. IMHO it looks much better now. Starting to integrate the girl ...

(Edit: Image removed for faster loading.)

A.v.K.
03-09-2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by EF_studios
That graffiti is almost impossible....I mean....It's too small to have so much details...you really need a thin spray-cap to make lines and fills like that.

The rest of the textures are great!

Thank you very much, EF_studios.
Not being a sprayer myself I wasn't aware of this. I try to rework that texture.

A.v.K.
03-09-2004, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by flingster
hey Arndt i actually prefer the pastel colour feel to the first image you posted...if it were me i'd extend or exagerate it even more...maybe that wasn't the intension but like the unusual look it has...no crits though bud...

(shaders...huh...hope i don't need to get my wallet ready...heh heh)
:beer:

Hi flingster,

well all of these shaders are already available at my company site. Not for free, but well spend money ;-)
I have to agree about the pastel colors. I liked them very much, but as I see it now with enhanced contrast/shadows it isn't bad either.:scream:

tcastudios
03-09-2004, 11:52 AM
Hi. Looks much better!
Two remarks thu.
1- You might need to copy the "sun" source and have the copy be restricted to the leaves on the pavement. The reason is they need a -much- bigger shadowmap (2000x2000 up to 4000x4000 depending on your scenesize) to cast sharper shadows than those made by the bigger objects in the scene. Now they are floating above instead of having contact with the ground.

A common thing I see in many scenes are that the leaves on the trees are very often to big. Making the proportions of the whole picture wrong. I think it might be the case here as well.

2- Decide if it is a morning or an evening scene since the sun now comes in at a low angle. And then set the suncolor to the right time for it. Now it is a plain white unnatural light all over making speculars looking flat. Most notable at the closest part of the pavement along the street. Looks a little too much bumpmapped.

Also,I canīt help thinking that the busshouse should be even less lensdistorted.

Sorry for bitching but I think this is going to be great!
So basically, get the backgound impeckible before adding the front objects.

Cheers
Lennart

A.v.K.
03-09-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by tcastudios
Hi. Looks much better!
Two remarks thu.
1- You might need to copy the "sun" source and have the copy be restricted to the leaves on the pavement. The reason is they need a -much- bigger shadowmap (2000x2000 up to 4000x4000 depending on your scenesize) to cast sharper shadows than those made by the bigger objects in the scene. Now they are floating above instead of having contact with the ground.

2- Decide if it is a morning or an evening scene since the sun now comes in at a low angle. And then set the suncolor to the right time for it. Now it is a plain white unnatural light all over making speculars looking flat. Most notable at the closest part of the pavement along the street. Looks a little too much bumpmapped.

Also,I canīt help thinking that the busshouse should be even less lensdistorted.

Sorry for bitching but I think this is going to be great!
So basically, get the backgound impeckible before adding the front objects.

Cheers
Lennart

Thanks a lot, Lennart. I think you are right about the floating leaves. I try to fix this. The sun is already tinted light yellow, so maybe it's a little too desaturated. I am not sure about that bump issue, as it could be a combination with those particle stones lying on top of the pavement. I'll check that.

A.v.K.
03-09-2004, 09:30 PM
Please forgive me for posting so many updates. I don't wanted this to be a wip presentation, but I try to implement your comments to increase the overall quality.
I have changed the lighting, the leave sizes, the shadowing of the ground leaves and the graffiti. Thanks a lot for your feedback so far. I think it really helped to lift this peace to a new level.

(Edit: Image removed for faster loading.)

tcastudios
03-09-2004, 09:56 PM
Yes! Now it is much more "air" in the scene.
The low sun would call for a warmer morning/evening color, I think. There is just a hint of to sharp speculars at the pavement. (The "sunny" side of all small stuff gets overexposed.)

This is going to be great!

(PS. Tell me when to shut up! :) )

Cheers
Lennart

flingster
03-10-2004, 12:40 AM
don't like the grey behind the tree...to gray for amount of light in scene...:thumbsup:

A.v.K.
03-10-2004, 08:48 AM
Thank you flingster and and tcastudios,

that should be easy to fix. I will start with the foreground then :-)

A.v.K.
03-11-2004, 05:42 PM
Thank you all very much for input. I uploaded the final version to the first post of this thread. Still some things to fix (it looks quite different here compared to Photoshop), but I am already happy with it.
Thanks again!

sadaphule
03-12-2004, 06:52 AM
good work A.v.K. !

great texture work
I think shadow is not final

Prashant Sadaphule

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127125

A.v.K.
03-12-2004, 08:52 AM
Thank you, Sadaphule.
The shadow on the yellow sign is one of those minor things that still bothers me, too.

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