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View Full Version : Hunt Gallery (or The Scarecrow) - My entry for 3D Awards 2004


Antropus
03-05-2004, 10:37 PM
Hello again.

My entry for 3D Awards 2004

Not much to say. This is my attempt to 3D Awards 2004 (unpublished work).
- Maya for modelling and render (default render)
- All textures hand painted in photoshop.
- I've used an additional pass for final composite: Dirtmap shader for ambient occlusion in Mental Ray.
- Original size: 2594x3800 px

Yeah, I think I have not much chance but I'll try :shrug:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by the autor
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I admit to be quite disappointed with some artists sometimes and, as artist and creator, in a certain way embarrassed by some comments I read here.
But for not hurting the feelings of the people that understood this image in a wrong way, I talked with the plumbers and them, also very sad, left a message before leaving :)

http://www.3d4all.org/antropus/pics/scarecrow2.jpg

I hope this post can serve as a great experience. Even in the year 2004, we can find this type of mentality. But I know... we are all guilty. I think this forum is an AWESOME CG ARTISTIC COMMUNITY, IMO. For the respect that I have for you as ARTISTS, black, white, yellow etc and mainly for the respect that I have for this great community, I've edited my image.

Sorry if I've offended somebody but, I repeat, WITHOUT ANY INTENTION. Be happy, open your minds and respect your human brothers :wavey:

Best regards,
Krishnamurti M. Costa
CG Artist

Antropus
03-05-2004, 10:37 PM
Another closes:

http://www.3d4all.org/antropus/pics/close2.jpg

http://www.3d4all.org/antropus/pics/close4.jpg

http://www.3d4all.org/antropus/pics/close6.jpg

retrop
03-05-2004, 11:21 PM
dude, you rock !!
(yeah, first one :P )

Jesse-Irvin
03-06-2004, 12:14 AM
Awesome, I love that guy!

But uhh... a old white woman with a bunch of Trophy heads of a black man... That either some rough Jungle Fever or she's been hunting negros... Being black myself but having seen your facial animation with this character I can't help but not take it seriously... but stilll.... I noticed..

Antropus
03-06-2004, 12:23 AM
retrop,
Thanks :)

3d43Jesse,
oh buddy... my movie is not serious and she don't hunt black people, just Plumbers :) As my Plumber character is black and he is in trouble in the hands of this old lady, I made this scene just as a teaser for my movie and my entry in 3D Awards at the same time. No racism from my part, just a comic scene, believe me.

Thanks for your comment :thumbsup:

Mr.Vengeance
03-06-2004, 12:35 AM
Great Work! i hope to see your picture at 3d award 2004 :)

dunadan
03-06-2004, 12:37 AM
AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I HOPE YOU WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XxBrianxX
03-06-2004, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by 3d43Jesse
Awesome, I love that guy!

But uhh... a old white woman with a bunch of Trophy heads of a black man... That either some rough Jungle Fever or she's been hunting negros... Being black myself but having seen your facial animation with this character I can't help but not take it seriously... but stilll.... I noticed..

i thought the same thing.. awsome job..but a white lady holding a big gun with several black mens heads on the wall...wow..you may not mean to send a strong message.. but your gonna end up sending that message whether u mean to or not...i guess we can only wait to see what you come up with.. but id becareful... skating on some pretty thin ice... but based on render quality and modeling awesome job.

shiver nasty veins...shiver

Antropus
03-06-2004, 02:56 AM
dunadan,
thanks for your words!

XxBrianxX,
The only strong message that I see in this image is the doubt on who is alive or dead. Judging by the straw that springs from some parts of the old, I believe that the "white" old lady is the only "stuffed animal" in this gallery. The plumbers seem to be very alive and happy, don't you think? ;)

Come on guys, this is a comic image done with fictitious characters. If I turned the old lady black and the plumbers white this subject would be resolved? Think about that.
I think CG is not the right place for racism. Is the right place for art and creativity, much nobler things.

I don't like any type of racism, even of those that seek the racism where it doesn't exist. The human being is only one, woman, man, black, white, yellow, purple... so, please, be not racists with my work or with another human beings, real or cartoon ;)

swardson
03-06-2004, 06:04 AM
very funny idea. I like it. I could just see some old lady walking down the hall of a grungy old building with a rifle grunting at me. Hehe very funny. Good luck. :buttrock: :buttrock:

abonora
03-06-2004, 06:34 AM
Good work as usual antropus! the characters are great and I don't believe that the skin color is going to be a problem, that is most likely going to fade away once you set the background of each character more clearly in your short.
Although I think you have a compositing issue in the image, Looks like the old lady is not interacting at all with the plumber, and I don't know if it's just me but the wall color kinda helps separating everything, maybe looking at another camera angle and changing the color of the wall would help, anyway i hope that you know what i mean.

Great Job again! :beer:

Antropus
03-06-2004, 06:47 AM
musicraker,
yeah! A great scene you imagined man! hehehehe
Thanks :)

abonora,
a good point man! I've tried another colors before and don't find better solution than this neutral one :shrug:
When I tried to make the wall darker, the image becomes a bit confuse and heavy, but feel free for some paint overs. I'll appreciate any contribution :)
I have another issue: the wood of the weapon over the wood of the chair. Any tips? Paint over?

Thanks again.

Antropus
03-06-2004, 06:49 AM
musicraker,
yeah! A great scene you imagined man! hehehehe
Thanks :)

abonora,
a good point man! I've tried another colors before and don't find better solution than this neutral one :shrug:
When I tried to make the wall darker, the image becomes a bit confuse and heavy, but feel free for some paint overs. I'll appreciate any contribution :)
I have another issue: the wood of the weapon over the wood of the chair. Any tips? Paint over?

Thanks again.

obs.: please moderators, delete the duplicated post above. Thanks

rami
03-06-2004, 07:29 AM
those legs freak me out! and whats even worse are those spiney things poking out of her! omg!
great detail though

stenarts
03-06-2004, 08:34 AM
Hey,

tell me what else then taking a breath and falling backwards into the chair we can do here. Thatīs a level of quality and very good skills I cant say more about then, WOW!

STEN

Tycane
03-06-2004, 02:42 PM
i am black myself and i didn't even notice it till jesse said it(the hunting negro thing)but ok,geusse it will send a message if you look at it that why(the old lady must be southern).

but personally i think antropus took that head because he already made it and made it easier on himself by just using that one.

antropus:perhaps take that old guys head you made(the one of wich the eye in you avater is)and throw that on a few plaques.
that will take away from that wrong message.

But Great work as always,though the enviroment is less detailed then your usuall work imo

Antropus
03-06-2004, 03:40 PM
rami,
oh man! I think her legs are sooooo sensual LOL
Thanks

stenarts,
heya neox! Great work you guys are doing with STEN ;)
Thanks for your words buddy.

Tycane,
it is a conceptual subject, not about the easier part. This image I made for 3D Awards but will serve also as a teaser for my short movie, and everything is part of the same project. Therefore the only character that can be in the wall is the plumber. The other guy will just appear about 10 seconds in the film. The main characters are really the old lady and the plumber. But don't worry, she just scares the plumber in the film, but doesn't hunt him, hehehehe.
About the environment, I prioritized the characters in this work. I tried to work with a quite neutral background to highlight especially their facial expressions.
Thanks for the very good points buddy ;)

XxBrianxX
03-06-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Antropus

XxBrianxX,
The only strong message that I see in this image is the doubt on who is alive or dead. Judging by the straw that springs from some parts of the old, I believe that the "white" old lady is the only "stuffed animal" in this gallery. The plumbers seem to be very alive and happy, don't you think? ;)

Come on guys, this is a comic image done with fictitious characters. If I turned the old lady black and the plumbers white this subject would be resolved? Think about that.
I think CG is not the right place for racism. Is the right place for art and creativity, much nobler things.

I don't like any type of racism, even of those that seek the racism where it doesn't exist. The human being is only one, woman, man, black, white, yellow, purple... so, please, be not racists with my work or with another human beings, real or cartoon ;) [/B]


oh i agree with you dont get me wrong i dont feel you are trying to portray racism. But for those who you cant explain this to... might be a different story... i live here near detroit, Mi in teh US.. dunno if you know our reputation..especially about race.. but its not a pretty one. Thats the only reason i thought about it.. I do like like your work and i do find it comedic and you got mad skillz my friend mad skillz.

Antropus
03-06-2004, 06:44 PM
XxBrianxX,
Hey! Thanks my friend!

Here in Brasil (where I live) our population is a great mix (I myself think that I have a bit of Brazilian Indian blood running in my veins :) ). Oh man! We are all from the same race: human. Same number of chromosomes... same capacity, but for some reason, not the same opportunities :shrug:

Thanks again buddy :thumbsup:

tyio
03-06-2004, 07:47 PM
godlike :eek:

Did you do any compositing for the render or all in one way ??


How much time ?? for rendering ?


go and win :thumbsup:

lildragon
03-06-2004, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Tycane
i am black myself and i didn't even notice it till jesse said it(the hunting negro thing)

Likewise, it's plugged now for the artistic quality it carries, I thought it was quite funny actually and never thought about the above until it was mentioned. Great work Antropus and I know you meant no harm.

salud

Joebount
03-06-2004, 10:10 PM
Really fun and well done !:buttrock:
What does she has on her right heel an knee ? woodshards ?

Cheers-

Kirt
03-06-2004, 10:14 PM
Great image except for the duplication of the same guy for the busts on the wall. Unless they are sextuplets and that point is important in your film, I think you should change up the heads and put other plumbers on the wall.

It would probably help the racial confusion also if several of them where different races. But, I didn't see the issue when I first looked at it.

JeffPatton
03-06-2004, 10:24 PM
Wonderful work! Your theme (plumber & old lady) reminds me of a show that use to come on TV several years ago called "The Super". Eddie Murphy did the voice of the maintenance guy and it was pretty funny (IMO).

Nothing really to crit, in my eyes it's perfect! :thumbsup:

oxyg3n
03-06-2004, 10:38 PM
ANtropus,

I think that you do good work. The facial animation you did on that guys is one of the best I have seen on this forum. I loved it.

Antropus
03-06-2004, 10:49 PM
tyio,
thanks man! I've rendered this image in about three passes for color and basic light. The first includes old lady, floor and furniture. The another pass is for the plumber heads, clock and some cockroaches. The last one is for the wall.
After, I made another 5 passes in Mental Ray, using Dirtmap shader (one for old lady alone, another for three heads, another for 2 heads, another for one head and clock etc). This 5 ambient occlusion passes were combined in one and composed over the color passes.
I think the 8 passes took me about 5 or 6 hours to render, in 3800x2590px

lildragon,
thanks a lot for the plug and kind words man! Yeah, I was concerned, but now I am calmer. Thanks ;)

Joebount,
Straw, hehehehe
thanks

Kirt,
Thanks! Well buddy, like I told to Tycane before, the duplicated issue is conceptual. Try to imagine that the six heads are in fact the same and unique one ;)
My movie has only one plumber, a funny guy, heheheh

folical9,
thanks! I'm curious about the show you have mentioned. I love Eddie Murphy work!

oxyg3n,
A great honor to know that my work can inspire somebody. Many thanks my friend!

vizion
03-06-2004, 10:54 PM
Awesome job antropus. Great characters and textures. As far as the whole racial message is concerned...i got one thing to say..You people read wayyyyyy too much into a picture. Nice job.

DJB343
03-06-2004, 10:55 PM
Awesome work my friend !

About the Racial alagation's, think of it this way, what if he had a white head on the wall and a black lady with a rifle ..... would there be any controversy over that, i dnt think so ! I think the whole white and black issue is old news to be honest with you, i dont think its fair on Antropus after all the work he has put into this image and animation to basically be called a racist .... if tht was me i would be really quite hurt considering all the work he has put into this image

Anyway, love your work man ..... and im totally 100% behind man:bounce:

JeffPatton
03-06-2004, 10:58 PM
Oops, it wasn't called "The Super". It was "The PJ's. What can I say, it's been a while. Here's a link I found to some show notes and pictures.

http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/mill/1999/01/25mill.html

AJ
03-06-2004, 11:36 PM
Antropus,

I'll admit that I like this piece because I know/recognise your work already, but ignoring my own slant/opinion - it's damn good anyway!

:D :D :D

smileyPotato
03-07-2004, 12:04 AM
i read your response to the whole racism thing, but still, my first reaction to this picture was that it is racist. I know the animation when viewed will come across as completely fine, but just letting you know that many will view this as a controversial image, and i'm not sure that's the vibe you want for a promo.

i have seen yuor test animations for this and it is impressive, it all is really. but i just thought you may need a heads up, nothing personnal.

CourtJester
03-07-2004, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by DJB343
About the Racial alagation's, think of it this way, what if he had a white head on the wall and a black lady with a rifle ..... would there be any controversy over that, i dnt think so !

That is unmistakeably true, and that's the really ironic comment on racism itself... it's an equal-opportunity vice. I did notice that angle as soon as I scrolled down to the old lady, but on my part it has more to do with my studies of certain politico-philosophical movements than it does with me (I'm a pasty white euromongrel Canadian).

I do think that this is mindblowing work, I love the expressions on the plumber's faces. That character has tons of comic potential all by himself. I applaud everyone in this thread for being able to recognize both the art and the possible "issue" of this work in a professional manner. In fact, I see this as a good jumping off point for an interesting discussion: to what extent is the artist responsible for the "effect" of a work, and how much the viewer? Does this proportion vary from work to work, and if so, what determines that?

oolong
03-07-2004, 12:31 AM
Wow that is incredible. Great detail on the legs! Her face really freaks me out, it captures the perfect calm insanity in her.

If the heads on the wall were white people, racists would be saying "Why is it all whites! Racist!". You cant win. I live in philadelphia, i know what racism is. Ive been jumped 3 times in the past 4 months by groups of blacks and yet it fails to get on the news, or even followed up on. Then 1 black gets in a fight with 1 white, HATE CRIME! The cops are all over it as is the media(racist). My city is run by a racist mayor, and is a leader in affirmative action(actually racist against both blacks and whites). We even have all black clergys, and black police forces(racist).

Its ridiculous to even bring up the subject of racism in this artistic concept! Its obvious you people dont even know what racism actually is, so dont ever bring it up again. Honestly, i dont care about racism(either way), its the stupidity that bugs me. The stupidity of racists, and those that hide behind, and benefit from racism. I dont want to get this topic locked, so if anyone has any comments on this, please email instead of replying! My email is oolong@hotmail.com.

By the way, i love the top middle expression with the snots hanging out of his nose :) But the shadows and shading on the walls and heads dont seem as solid as the foreground objects like the woman though.

catbert
03-07-2004, 12:36 AM
the black dude reminds me of the young one's landlord. and cockroaches are creepy.

but i love this work!

SpaXe
03-07-2004, 01:12 AM
Wow you've got the POWER~!:D

Digital Backlot
03-07-2004, 01:23 AM
interetsing depiction of racism I've ever seen, you sure have balls man.

hmm...At least you're honest with us on your stance...... . .. . .


Good luck with your uh.. safety.


JK

kryoboy
03-07-2004, 01:59 AM
love the style, that old lady looks damn funny. She must be a possesed woods wookie.

the characters are great, i bet the guys heads are like man this b!$#& is crazy, she got u too! oh man she told me she had a leaky fauset, i bent over to take a look, next thing i knew i was staring at my ankles.

I live in southren lousiana, and the old lady reminds me of some of the raciest, beleive the fear of god and drink this snake venom or your going to hell, woods wookie who shot her sinning alcholoic husband over a the moonshine, ive seen at the county fair.

froggyplat
03-07-2004, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by Antropus
As my Plumber character is black and he is in trouble in the hands of this old lady, I made this scene just as a teaser for my movie and my entry in 3D Awards at the same time. No racism from my part, just a comic scene, believe me.


your intent may not be racist, but IMO it shows poor judgement on your part. i would seriously reconsider letting this work represent you without revising it in some way...unless you want it to be controversial.

ps i took the time to read your comments and others before jumping to conclusions...but not everyone is going to do that...nothing personal.

grafikdon
03-07-2004, 02:18 AM
To be honest, we are all guilty of making mountains out of a mole hill. When I saw the work, I was so amazed and my jaws dropped(no kidding) the moment I scrolled down, my heart skipped a beat. As a black man I was a little suspicious about the message of the image but when I realized it was nothing but an outstanding work of art, I pulled myself together.

There are things we just have to ignore and move ahead. It may not occur to us that we are looking at an honest depiction of a character and her capabilities as the case may be without any malevolent intentions.

Either way there will still be complaints. If the reverse was the case, believe me it wouldn't be any different. I remember back in 2000 when we hung our comic strips for critique, my hero was a black man and the villains were white. Some of my white classmates didn't find that funny. No amount of explanation could help.

In the end what counts is the artist's intention and not what we think a work portends. With all speculations cast aside, you did a wonderful job my friend and I am not kidding.

See my movie:Fugitive Prince (http://www.mayhemproductions.org/home.htm)

DDS
03-07-2004, 02:30 AM
I see a lot of envy over this board...calm down people, this is not racism...
Do all the girls call most of the 3d works as sexist?...

Absolutely amazing man!:beer:

TiSOy
03-07-2004, 02:40 AM
The artwork is awesome,,,I love it.....Im not a racist, but the first time I saw ur work, it pops into my head that people might think differently. I understand ur point of view,,,but it would be nice if u put few different race head instead of all black,,,,:hmm:

Pony
03-07-2004, 02:50 AM
I thank DDS, and grafikdon for there well made post. I second them.

Antropus, This is so amazing !! really top shelf work.
Its very nice to see this level of work being devoted to something else besides over skinny girls, or muscle bound "heros".

shadowkeeper
03-07-2004, 02:53 AM
wOW! I saw your animation before with that head and wow! Nicely done. I can't find out apropriated words to congrat you!:bounce: :applause: :bowdown:

Racism here? hmmmm.... It represents racism in diferent views:
If you're a black skinned person, you may be offended by this picture but if you're a white skinned person, then, you (racists) may be a litle satisfied only watching this picture.
I'm a black skinned guy. I called all my black skinned brothers and friends and... they said that this offends them.
Honestely, I'm not offended because this is just an artwork.

Just hope that the owner of this picture isn't in trouble with other black guys that walk arround here.

Best regards,

El Shadow

macke
03-07-2004, 03:14 AM
Racism schmasism. If the lady was black and the dude was white, not nearly as many voices would have been raised. I don't know the intent, but I see NO racism what-so-ever in this picture. I can clearly see the point of view stated, but I cannot comprehend it.

I see this as a brilliant piece of art and as some previous poster said: You sure have balls.

All the while I, and probably many others, will see this as nothing but the piece of art it is, many more will, undoubtedly, see it as a racist piece. In my opinion, **** that. This is simply art, no matter if the dudes on the wall are black or white or stripey. Kudos to you man! Awesome work!

Matthew Moran
03-07-2004, 03:21 AM
:buttrock: Those textures are soooo good! Best of luck to you at the awards.

firstsingle
03-07-2004, 03:24 AM
Hang in there Antropus. The world is nearly cured of it's sickness. Through music and film The world is becoming one minded. Art and music will bring us all together. Blacks is my color not my heart. Just continue to make great art!!

paconavarro
03-07-2004, 03:33 AM
Those details are awesome... great great wor...!!!!

Antropus
03-07-2004, 03:36 AM
I'm very happy for two things:
a lot of people have appreciated this image in the absolutely right way, as ARTISTIC PIECE. But I'm very happy too because I get an unexpected feedback, about the racism subject. I think the contemporary art (which includes CG art IMO...) has the obligation to make people think about social questions. Even without this intention, my work made people think about the "racism" issue and for that my work reached something much bigger than I waited. Is not this the function of CG as ART FORM? Making people think BESIDES the image instead of simply observe an image passively? Maybe I have gotten an approach of my work in CG with the proposals of the contemporary art and maybe for that, my work today (as student of fine arts, last period) is more complete thanks to their observations.

But...
independent of this subjects, I truly noticed some racist comments here in this post. But can just be my personal perception, as well as some they might have noticed this from my part, thing that didn't exist ;)

Thank you for the wonderful and unexpected feedback. The ART thank you A LOT :beer:

dunadan
03-07-2004, 04:32 AM
Something to keep in mind...


When the day is long and the night, the night is yours alone,
When you're sure you've had enough of this life, well hang on
Don't let yourself go, 'cause everybody cries and everybody hurts sometimes

Sometimes everything is wrong. Now it's time to sing along
When your day is night alone, (hold on, hold on)
If you feel like letting go, (hold on)
When you think you've had too much of this life, well hang on

'Cause everybody hurts. Take comfort in your friends
Everybody hurts. Don't throw your hand. Oh, no. Don't throw your hand
If you feel like you're alone, no, no, no, you are not alone

If you're on your own in this life, the days and nights are long,
When you think you've had too much of this life to hang on

Well, everybody hurts sometimes,
Everybody cries. And everybody hurts sometimes
And everybody hurts sometimes. So, hold on, hold on
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on
Everybody hurts. You are not alone

jStins
03-07-2004, 04:39 AM
Antropus, very nice work as many others have said. :thumbsup: I've been following this guy for awhile now and cant wait to see the final animated short.

I dont think you intended to make this image racially motivated, and your comments back that up.

However, it was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw the image. I'm not suggesting you change the image, thats totally up to you. Just be prepared for negative reactions from people, beacause there will be many. :hmm:

Thanks for the detail shot of the vieneey leg :surprised

elnady
03-07-2004, 04:46 AM
Great job:bounce:

AlbertoGarcia
03-07-2004, 05:00 AM
hey Antropus, great work man. the modeling, texturing, and lighting just amazing. I even saw the little animation you made with the head a while back. Really good.

On the other hand, a white lady killing black men and then putting their heads up for display will not go well with everyone, and will even be offensive. I think it is too much of coincidence that all the plumbers were black. From what you've written i get that it wasn't your intention but you will not have the luxury to explain yourself every time your image is shown. Some of us might get caught up on the technical merits of your work (because this is what we all have in common) and miss the subject matter, but when an "everyday" person sees this you will get a very different reaction. I would strongly suggest that you revise your work.

Antropus
03-07-2004, 05:40 AM
--------------------------------------------------------
removed by the artist
--------------------------------------------------------

oolong
03-07-2004, 05:48 AM
If the reverse was the case, believe me it wouldn't be any different.

Yeah youre right, it would be WAY more popular! :p Hehe, beleive me.

Lol antropus, hilarious new alien hunter image =) But something caught my attention. I see the aliens all have african american characteristics. Are you being racist?! You beleive black people to be deformed looking aliens?! Hehe im just playing, but dont think it wouldnt be thought of like that ;) I love both versions and it wasnt poor judgement on your part. You created an honestly unbiased and amazing peice of art in a realistic and unracist manner.

REZI-st
03-07-2004, 06:02 AM
amazing work :buttrock: nice textures , good idea , grandma is very good and same fulsome :thumbsup: :beer: :love:

AnimBot
03-07-2004, 06:05 AM
Hey Antropus I can certainly relate. In Highschool I did a picture that was a parody of a drawing one of my friends drew of himself. His drawing was of his head on a dog's body. Later I duplicated the image and drew myself into the picture holding him on a leash. The next day I came in and found out my teacher loved it so much he put it in the display case at school. The students all saw me, a black male, holding my friend, a white male portrayed as a dog, on a leash. As innocent as it was people took it as a very aggresive statement and I must admit I would have taken it the same way If I didn't know the backstory behind the image. Long story short they took the picture out and I got to explain what the image was about in the paper. I didn't fight to keep it in there and I was actually relieved because I didn't want that image representing me as a person. If I had a choice I would never had let my teacher put that picture in there.
As for your image I have no problem with it personally and like everyone else I think it's really damn good (especially the animations I've seen of the plumber:drool: ).When it comes down to it though people will see an image of a white women holding a gun with black men mounted up on a wall and you might not be there to explain it's supposed to be comical.

AnimBot
03-07-2004, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by Antropus
ok ok guys... I made another version called "The Martians Hunter" :cool: ... better?
http://www.3d4all.org/antropus/pics/martian.jpg

ps.: no Martian was hurt or molested in the development of this image :love:

Nice!!! :applause: Funny stuff man.

sizzlebits
03-07-2004, 06:12 AM
awesome work. I love it. In response to the racism factor, I think that people are overtly sensitive. If it were a black man with a bunch of white women's heads up there, I don't think that the response would be the same. I could be completely wrong, but that is my feeling... call it educated intution.

P.S. I am doubting that anyone will agree with this, but I think that the concept of racism is rather comedic. The idea that someone would dislike someone else because of a physical attribute is silly. Dislike people for the right reasons, such as actions. What's next... people with hazel eyes strapped to the whipping post?

oolong
03-07-2004, 06:13 AM
el_shadow wrote:
if you're a white skinned person, then, you (racists) may......

Lmao, way to be subtle about it =)

tarun_don
03-07-2004, 06:41 AM
:buttrock: :buttrock: (i wanted to fill it with these)

martians ha ha ha!! AAmmAAzzing :applause:

what i can't help but say is how stuffed brain people are, i am scarred by the thoughts of people... i some time think people who let the innocent child die inside them are the ones who drift to thoughts such as racism........

"please i wanna be friends with that same funny innocent child inside u because inside i am still that .. :) "

cheybea
03-07-2004, 07:45 AM
thats the scariest, wrinkliest, grundgiest old lady i have ever seen
your textures are wonderful wonderful wonderful
i kinda wish the back wall color was different...that grey isn't hittin it for me
but other than that..the colors are bright and vibrant
anway, theres no point in me giving my 2-cents on the supposed "racial issue"....eh, nevermind...i'm from the south (good 'ol alabama)..and yeah, i'm black....but my 1st response was with laughter..doesn't offend me one bit...i've seen your work...and i know that you would never do something intentional to hurt others

but ya know..not everyone will look at this in an artist view..depending on where you show it

anyway
I LOVE IT
I LOVE IT
and keep up the good work
:thumbsup:

-chels

eezie
03-07-2004, 08:12 AM
I usually enjoy your work too..

But the first thing i did when i saw this was send it to everyone on my aim list... from all races and they all replied with the same "oh my god thats SO messed up". I can definately see this being posted on places like bangup.com and stileproject for the whole "black man heads on the wall" thing.

as far as that copped out "if the races were reversed" thing is conserned, im black. and i wouldve found it the other way to be pretty racist too. Growing up where the original image was seen to be how people thought in real life.. to moving to go to college to an area where the REVERSED is what is overheard its easy to see from different angles. But, also, you're not from this country, so I can gather why you couldve been blind to what the big fuss was about.

Nevertheless, i DID laugh when i saw it, but im not right in the head so i mean.. whatever. Cant wait to see the finished product man. impressive work... but damn.

JamesMK
03-07-2004, 08:13 AM
Really great image! The lighting is a bit dull (imo) and I would have loved to see this with some jolly nice sunshine coming in through a window/door/skylight/whatever - mostly because that would make the absurd situation even more powerful (just imagining now those warm yellow beams with dust particles and flies dancing, and then: old granny with the gun and those heads... yeehaw!) - - -

Anyway, full score for originality and detail! Those legs are... :argh:

AAAAaand I don't see the racist connection. This is CLEARLY a militant feministic piece of propaganda - y'all see that it's a woman with a gun, and a lot of male heads on the wall right? ;)

phoenix
03-07-2004, 08:27 AM
lovely work .... i love the over all feel

DazP
03-07-2004, 08:45 AM
This is technically and artistically amazing work.

Furthermore, accusing the artist of racism is silly, but equallly so is saying 'lets not make a mountain out of a molehill' or 'lets not let racism affect CG' since many of you are totally missing the point of why this image is even an issue. And it is, in my opinion, an issue.

The fact of the matter is, this piece feels like its set in the southern states of the US. It feels like an old colonial or even plantation house in somewhere like Louisiana. It clearly depicts an old white woman houseowner proudly standing over her trophies of hunted young black males.

My point here is, that your 'intent' is completely irrelevant. I absolutely guarantee you that this image will be offensive to some, and, even cultural differences allowing, it's extremely naiive of you to think that this image would not be controversial. Yes it's a shame, and we may not like it, but I assure you that it will still be controversial. It's up to you as an artist as to wether or not you want to spend a lifetime explaining and defending it.

Cod
03-07-2004, 08:50 AM
WOW! Absolutely amazing!

Antropus
03-07-2004, 09:27 AM
I talked about my intention previously. My position and intention are clear in my mind and I don't intend to feed still more that issue. Each person think different... as human beings, and I think CGTalk is a great forum. So, I think this is very normal to happen here :)
Each one carries their own prejudice in their own heads. I have black friends and I didn't see anybody offended with this image... but of course, we live in Brazil (maybe the racism here is more light than in another parts of world). Lildragon as the great artist that he is, noticed my intention, as well as most here. Some insist on continuing feeding the controversy. What can I say is: go ahead guys... are your feelings... I can't do anything to change your mind ;)
I think if we do some statistics here, we will see that maybe have more white people than black people offended with this image. Perception truly strange, full of prejudice... and coming theoretically from the most opened heads of the universe: the ARTISTS heads (all from HUMAN race in my mind). Lamentable, but a good post :)

GavinG
03-07-2004, 09:55 AM
Who else is sick of the politically correct?

I like the image, at first I thought you got lazy and just merged 2 of your pieces together, but now after reading your story it makes much more sense and deserves much more merit than I thought.
:blush:

I'm sure your work was full of innocence and meant no harm towards anyone, it's just been dragged out into something its not. Good work, can't wait to see that short nd good luck with the awards.

Gavin

Sicco
03-07-2004, 10:10 AM
Awesome awesome awesome..knowing that you will animate it just as superb.

Did you get your facial setup from the book stop staring..or do you use your own??? just wondering..


I am a big fan of your work dude .. keep on doing it !!!


:buttrock:

Sicco

ThomasMahler
03-07-2004, 10:37 AM
First of all, cool work. You're always managing to bring in a "painted feeling" into your images, Antropus - thats really great, I cant wait till the short is finished, although it seems to become a really "disturbing" one, according to the description on your page. Artistically, theres nothing to complain, it's really, really well done!

About the racial issues: Well, maybe racial discussions are commonplace in the US, but believe me, I'm from Austria and no one here would think about your image being rassistic. It's just a funny image, too funny to think about a deeper background. I, personally, want to sit back, just look at some piece of art from a guy on the other side of the world and enjoy what I'm seeing.

Guys, you're really taking things like that too seriously - It's art and art is debatable, but hey... I think that image was intended to be funny and nothing else.

agflash
03-07-2004, 10:46 AM
two words:
SCARY COOL
^^

EdySusanto
03-07-2004, 11:15 AM
hi antropus,
i've always been a fan of your works bro :)
isn't it been a while since these characters been created for your movie? ( its been a while since my last visit on your site 2 month ago if i'm not mistaken, and these plumber man n old nanny r finished )
is the movie done?
realistic texture. n really amazing facial expression for the plumber man :)
hope to learn more from u bro :) really nice work.
frant page is always worth for your work :)

Troy
03-07-2004, 11:26 AM
Brilliant work Antropus, you're an amazing artist.

All I thought of this image before I read some of the thread, was that this is an old lady who hates plumbers..nothing more, and that was your intention.

great work, and when will the film be finished?

le_faya
03-07-2004, 11:37 AM
Damn beautiful image and really funny...BRAVO :buttrock:
(and this is not because the guy is black that we can speak about racisme....men stop to close your mind :D

yeoj3d
03-07-2004, 11:55 AM
wow it is amazing artwork and i loved that facial animation u posted of the plumber a while ago. Yer one of the best 3d artists on cgtalk. Good job

I live in America and here this image is considered racist, because of the 400 years of white farmowers using black slaves for free labor. So most other countries that don't have that in their history would not consider this racist. That is why the only people in this thread that are mentioning the racism in this image are Americans. I am a fan of your artwork, but i did think about racism as soon as i saw this image. We only see that connection because of the brutal history our country had against blacks for so many years.

But the art is perfect, and you definitley are one of the best cg artists in the world, your work is incredibly good.

lildragon
03-07-2004, 12:14 PM
Antropus I'm really impressed with how well you're handling the responses in this thread, it shows you have strong character and believe in what you do, my advice to you is to take it as a learning experience, cause even though you may not see it, there's always something to gain from responses like the ones you recieve here.

Continue to creat great art like you have been.

Also peeps please remember the 2nd point in the CGTalk Policy http://www.cgtalk.com/policy.php

salud

MDB101
03-07-2004, 12:34 PM
There is nothing ugly; I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object be what it may, light, shade, and perspective will always make it beautiful.
Prejudice begins with ignorance and ends with understanding.
Once we realize that imperfect understanding is the human condition, there is no shame in being wrong, only in failing to correct our mistakes.
Have respect, and more of it than what you have already earned.
Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. Everything you can imagine is real. If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance on it!
Remember, people will judge you by your actions, not your intentions. Other then that great works! keep it up.

shadowkeeper
03-07-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by oolong
el_shadow wrote:


Lmao, way to be subtle about it =)

By saying that statement I'm not affirming that all white skinned guys are racist. I was talking about the other side : about racist white skinned guys ONLY!
Hope this is not a misundertood!:thumbsup:
Anyway, I already said that this is just an artwork and a well done artwork. So... PEACE AND LOVE:wip: :beer:

VagabondDead
03-07-2004, 01:24 PM
I also think your work is absolutely amazing. I immediately recognized the character from the previous animation. Your expressions are just incredible.

And of course (I like following trends?) regarding the racial issue: I also immediately thought of racism when I saw the picture. But I certainly didn't think of the artist as being a racist. I pictured a deep Southern woman straight from the Preacher comic series (someone in Rev. Custer's twisted family, no doubt). I don't understand how anyone could assume that the artist is a racist just because he portrayed what appears to be a racist. Can we assume Spielberg is a Nazi for directing Schindler's List? I know that the artist actually didn't intend any type of racial understones at all, but I will agree with the previous posts that mentioned it WILL be perceived by many people.

However, I really want to stress my belief that the artist shouldn't be considered a racist for depicting racism (unintentional or not). I think the absolute best (only?) way to bring issues like racism and sexism to light is to show them and all art has shown such things without people making assumptions on the artists.

Locutus
03-07-2004, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by froggyplat
your intent may not be racist, but IMO it shows poor judgement on your part. i would seriously reconsider letting this work represent you without revising it in some way...unless you want it to be controversial.

ps i took the time to read your comments and others before jumping to conclusions...but not everyone is going to do that...nothing personal.
I have to agree. Being a CG artist and instructor, one of the things I teach my students is that as artists we can express our selves any way we want, but there are often consequences for the choices we make in our imagery. When I came to CGTalk today and saw this character on the front page , I immediately clicked on it to see the work, because I think your work is phenomenal and wanted to see more. As a black man, however, your work appears racist. Sure maybe I could be called overly sensitive, but if you've ever studied the history of this country (USA), specifically racism, you would know that your work is VERY similar to the racist cartoons that were often printed in newspapers.

Incidentally, I've let some of my non-CG friends look at this piece, with out giving any indication as to the what they might see, all of them were offended.
I also showed it to some of my friends who are into CG (including my wife who is white), they all said "wow that looks great, but.......the subject matter appears racist"

Your work could really give a bad impression of this website. You might want to consider reading these forum rules:
- Potentially inflammatory discussions or comments regarding social issues
These include, but are not limited to, topics such as racism, sexism, religion, xenophobia or homosexuality.

- Hate speech
Derogatory, anti-social or inflammatory remarks aimed at any group of people, with the intention to incite a mass response are not only a crime in most countries, but are also totally unacceptable here.

- Racial slurs
No matter how amusing some people might find them, most users consider jokes, or underhanded comments, directed at any race or culture highly offensive.
I don't know if your work violates these rules, but they surely would come close.

I applaud your skills and understand your motives, but I question
your judgement as well.

Vnuk
03-07-2004, 03:41 PM
Yeah...very very nice work Antro.

Her legs are kinda scary :) :beer:

Monolith
03-07-2004, 04:24 PM
Dude... I just realised those bags are not a vest she wears... Eww... Damn. :surprised
Now i have to go and find a pic of an absolute and pure beauty to get rid of this pic which already burned deep into my mind.

Btw... What's up with those Composition Main Lines?

Hmm... You shouldn't have left the picture without a comment about the story or the background about it like you did with this thread. Gives the ppl to much ideas to think about.

Bah... Those bags... Can't get then out of my mind... Uhh... >__<#

ThomasMahler
03-07-2004, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Monolith
Bah... Those bags... Can't get then out of my mind... Uhh... >__<

Hehehe - I always show Antropus work to my family, because he's one of my favourite artists. Those "bags" were the first thing my brothers saw when I showed them the images! ;-)

That really has to be the ugliest old woman I've seen in my whole life - good for nightmares. But I guess that's exactly what Antropus intended to achieve - If so, he's done a marvellous job!

thorn3d
03-07-2004, 07:14 PM
I'm not typically a Politically Correct guy... and I get tired of people constantly finding insult where it doesn't exist.

Having said that, my first impression from your image was "Oh... my... god."

Perhaps it was not your intent to depict an old white woman hunting black men for sport. However, that is indeed what I see. It's rather irrelevent that it's some sort of teaser pic, for a movie i've not yet seen.

The fact that you turned them all green is sad in a way... and nearly insults those that mentioned the issue. The respondants didn't create the issue - the picture did.

The image is what it is. It's technically and artistically well-done, no doubt about it. I don't question your motives, but your judgment is another matter.

Respectfully,

thorn

azazel
03-07-2004, 07:45 PM
an old white woman hunting black men for sport

I see only an old woman hunting men for sport. What does skin color matter?
Nice stuff Antropus, keep it up.

FluKe73
03-07-2004, 08:06 PM
Im not a racist... so i saw peoples on the wall not black peoples. The picture could of course be offending and i understand the guys seeing it as racism, but look further.

Black are just peoples as white, yellow or whatever. We are all the same.

Love the work by the way, but it is kinda grose - being humans hangning on the wall.

richd
03-07-2004, 09:54 PM
1st thing i noticed about the pic was you copied the head 6 times except changed there facial expression; different faces would be more pleasing but obvioulsy more difficult.

2nd thing I noticed was the old lady and how freakishly decayed she looked and great detail on her.

3rd thing i noticed was it seemed to have a racial message here, im sure it didn't. Im sure this is just a controversial piece more than art. it seems to have worked with all the comments so far.

overall the models and texture are well executed but there is misguided message that needs to be fixed.

hyst
03-07-2004, 10:05 PM
Yeah very stylish !

The old woman is scary, details are amazing but what's wrong with her eyes ^^

gj and gl for 2004 ^^

Antropus
03-07-2004, 10:32 PM
Thanks a lot to all of you guys!
I really appreciated ALL the comments posted here.

I've edited the first image and removed another one... sorry if you've liked more the original :shrug:

Cya :wavey:

richd
03-07-2004, 11:07 PM
maybe u should of put an asian, black, mexican, chinese, white guys head up there so there'd be no confusion.lol

Locutus
03-08-2004, 12:43 AM
I'm sorry that some of us disappointed you, but your disappointment in us doesn't make our points any less valid.
It could be that you weren't raised in the US and haven't seen first hand the type of racism that still exists here. I don't know.
However, as I said earlier your work is great and I truly respect you as an artist.

dunadan
03-08-2004, 12:52 AM
Pandora's Box is Open....can we shut quickly?

eezie
03-08-2004, 01:02 AM
you didnt nessisarily have to take the head down alltogether either.. dropping a few plummer-like items about would've DEFINATELY cleard alot of this up. Or a hat with the plumming company's name. or just ONE head.. and the plummer stuff.

now i feel all overly sensitive about it all seeing that you changed your image all together... this very thread has been linked to 3 other forums i post at and its sad to say that it got as lot more heated in those forums than here.

honestly, i was more offended that it was PERFECTLY FINE to some people than i was offended by the ACTUAL image.
...my childhood just got hurled back into my somewhat adulthood. sorry you felt the need to take it ALL of it down.

Antropus
03-08-2004, 01:20 AM
Sorry fellow... I just want to know if you are calm now... maybe more happy. I did what I thought was the best thing to do in the actual circumstances. Please, now respect my decision to put down "all together", as you said. My work, my reputation. So, certainly is the maximum that I can do for you guys. Now look forward, not to back. Make your art and be happy :)

thanks

dunadan
03-08-2004, 01:33 AM
A little less freedom, hmmm that's all I have seen here...

iXaarii
03-08-2004, 01:47 AM
she's definitelly lil' ol' lady quality

Hexodam
03-08-2004, 03:13 AM
aw man, I loved the original

it was realy brilliant, but people often see what they want to see in a picture and I saw something fun, intersting and amazingly well done.

Emmortal1
03-08-2004, 03:45 AM
This is utterly pathetic and makes me sick to my stomach to see someone CHANGE their artwork to please someone else. Sad and pathetic is all I can say.

Munsrik
03-08-2004, 05:25 AM
I loved those faces you had on the wall. It must have been hard to take them off, and I commend you for it. Its always difficult to know what people will think. Keep going, man. You have my support, for what it's worth :thumbsup:

Pyke
03-08-2004, 05:55 AM
I honestly prefered the original. I thought it was more interesting, funier, and in general I just loved looking at all of your fine details and expressions on the faces of the heads on the walls....
Its still my background. :)

That said, and commenting of the racist issue. All i have 2 say is this. PATHETIC!
I live in South Africa, which is perhaps one of the most racially sensative countrys in the world. I consider myself a proud African. I feel Africa in my blood, in the air that I breath, see it outside my window every single day.
When I 1st saw this image, I though 'HOLY MOTHER thats a fantastic image!', becuase of its artistic merits, and comical subject matter. *Old wowman hunts guys and puts there heads on plaques.*. Then somebody 'pointed out' that they were black, and the woman was white-and I just shew that a 'sh*t storm' was about 2 hit.

To the overly sensative people out there who think that art should be censored - grow up. Look past the skin. Accept the work for what it is: A damned funny, extreamly well executed, visually interesting piece of art.

Censorship has never been a good thing. Not in the 'old' American government, not during apartheid, and not now.

And by the way-im a white African.

loked
03-08-2004, 03:17 PM
Hey All,

Okay, I just finished reading this entire thread just so I dont throw something out there that is completely irrelevant.

Okay, I'm a white South African too and I spent most of my childhood and a 97% black school. I was the only white kid at the school who wasnt a child of a teacher or something of that sort. The reason I mention this, is because I've really had first hand experience with racial issues. Especially in a country like South Africa.

I think we can all agree that Antropus had no intention of being racist. That should be respected and at no point should anyone accuse him of being racist (not that anyone has as far as I can recall). However, irrespective of his intentions, he might a probably will still offend people. Alot of people are saying reverse it and put a black women and a white man, but that's a silly argument. The reason it comes across as being racist is because of the fact that through history this picture is a true depiction of alot of tragedy that has occured. If you put a nazi with a gun and a jew on the wall, that would probably offend a hell of a lot of jews and if you reversed it, you'd probably offend some people but not to the same extent. I guess the point I'm making is that you have to look at this image in context with society. This forum is a universal forum as is art, so arguing that Antropus is brazilian, doesnt really mean that those that are offended have no ground to stand on.

I guess the bottom line is. If you firmly believe in your art and you dont care much for how people feel about it, then let them argue all they like. If on the other hand Antropus does not want this kind of a reputation and would rather prevent controversy, then do as he did :)

No matter what anybody says here, this image can be offending and it's completely up to Antropus whether he doesnt mind offending people or not (clearly he doesnt want to offend people).

Lastly but not least. I dont think anyone here really has the right to tell another whether or not he or she should get offended by something. We all come from different backgrounds and have had different experiences. So we are all entitled to feel as we please. Obviously some people are unaware of your experiences and might offend you unintentionally as has happened here, but you are still 100% entitled to your own emotions and feelings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sheeeeew, thats was a lot of typing.

BTW, I'm a huge fan of your work Antropus :)

later:wavey:
loked

Banshee
03-08-2004, 04:03 PM
I did NOT read the whole 7 pages of comments but I clearly understood what is going on here...

Why donīt you simply put faces of black AND white people on the wall (maybe itīs been suggested here before, sorry then).

Iīm from Germany and I absolutely know what it means to have a bad reputation in a political meaning, believe me! Man, Iīm 24 years old and still have to suffer from Germanyīs past. You donīt get rid of that once you got a reputation like that...

Your art IS great and I wouldnīt mind this picture as it was in the original.
But be sensual and make the best out of it! Iīm sure, youīll succeed in whatever you wanted to achieve.

Locutus
03-08-2004, 04:20 PM
It's also about perspective. People who have felt the effects of racism are going to perceive work like this with more sensitivity than someone who hasn't been on the receiving end.
As I said earlier, anyone familiar with US history would immediately recognize the similairties between this piece and the racist cartoons that used to get printed in newspaper and the propaganda that followed. I do realize that this was not the intention, but the similarities exist nontheless.

gent_k
03-08-2004, 05:21 PM
Great image Antropus,
i saw the characters rendered individually(in your site).

Great composition.

froggyplat
03-08-2004, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by loked

Lastly but not least. I dont think anyone here really has the right to tell another whether or not he or she should get offended by something. We all come from different backgrounds and have had different experiences. So we are all entitled to feel as we please.

Loked, I think your comments are 100% on target.

No one has accused Antropus of being racist, because I think most people are intelligent enough to know the difference between the artist and his work. Antropus chose to change his image, which I think is wise, but that was his choice. It has nothing to do with censorship. Whether or not he did it to please other people or because he had second thoughts about it should only matter to Antropus.

Emmortal1
03-08-2004, 08:12 PM
Art isn't going to be pleasing to everyone. You said yourself you don't think he's racist, that is the end of the discussion. Everyone is different and trying to please everyone and make everyone feel all happy and warm inside with your work is NEVER going to happen. Causing someoene to change their artwork over YOUR personal feelings is the WORST thing that anyone can do. I am sickened by this.

loked
03-08-2004, 08:21 PM
Hey Emmortal1 :)

I really cant agree with you. I dont think anybody here forced Antropus to change his art. They merely just gave their opinions on whether it offended them or not. He made the decision to change it, nobody else. If he didnt care about how people felt, then he had no reason to change it, but he obviously did and therefore you and everybody else will have to live with his decision.

later:wavey:
loked

Antropus
03-08-2004, 09:22 PM
Oh well... :rolleyes:

I'm Brazilian but I thought to have writing in english before. Maybe with bold you can understand better:

"I did what I thought was the best thing to do in the actual circumstances. Please, now respect my decision to put down "all together", as you said. My work, my reputation. So, certainly is the maximum that I can do for you guys. Now look forward, not to back. Make your art and be happy :)".

I can't write more clear and I can't help you anymore. For me this post is in the exact way that some people wants: dead.

I will not send this work to 3D Awards because I have absolutely NO CHANCES right now. I think a respectable jury don't deserve what I heard and I felt here.

Thanks

theglenster
03-08-2004, 10:34 PM
truely a dark day in the history of CGTALK when an artist is forced to change his interpretation of art to please a minority.
like coments passed before, if there was a flip side and it was a black lady with a collection of white man heads it would have had the same stunning impact, imo.
with the greatest respect i can aford to the artist, i praise your work and can only look forward to your future works, well done!

does the word racism still exist because some wont let it die?

come on people, show respect where it is due!

dmonk
03-09-2004, 12:09 AM
Antropus: Your work is great first of all.

I didn't want to write in this thread because I do think it got a bit out of hand. Being black myself, I did not initially notice the racial thing, because I recognized the characters from before and had seen them posted. After I picked my tongue of the ground from being impressed I did notice the whole racial thing. Obviously you didn't intend it to be taken in the way it was taken, but what is done is done. It is sad that you had to change you original image and I'm sorry you felt that pressure to do so. Just be a bit more conscience though in the future. As a person who has experienced racism firsthand it does sting a bit, but people can put two and two together and tell that you meant no harm.

Keep creating Beautiful work and I'll keep being a big fan.:thumbsup:

No worrys buddy!

does the word racism still exist because some wont let it die?

Racism is still very real. Just because you might see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Fire_Master...
03-09-2004, 12:20 AM
dude that is so friggin creepy you rock :bowdown:

ibeliveicanfly
03-09-2004, 05:17 AM
woooooow!!!!
:thumbsup:
great all

protohiro
03-10-2004, 05:12 AM
--I don't want to get involded in this anymore, deleted my comment--

CourtJester
03-10-2004, 08:28 AM
The world is becoming one minded.

WE ARE THE BORG....

So much for real (intellectual) actual diversity.

Antropus, I respect your desire to maintain your reputation. I don't blame you for being conciliatory.

As for those of you who think that covering your censorious, race-obsessed impulses with the fig leaf of "as a person of X race", well you clearly do not understand that the prerequisite to racism is precisely that sort of *race consciousness*. And rather than help eliminate it (as a step towards the colorblindedness once held as an ideal by liberalism), you have helped exacerbate it.

Well, nice going. I, for one, am disgusted.

Tycane
03-10-2004, 11:33 AM
wow this is lame
Seems we arent as far with racisme as i thought,if you even have to consider what skin colour your character should get NOT because it might suit his character but more if it is "politicaly correct"

Pers. i had really hoped that atleast a tight CG community like this one here would rise above things like this,seems i'm wrong.

jdsb
03-10-2004, 02:49 PM
heres my reaction:
plumber+old lady+antro= :eek: :eek: :eek:

this image is greeeeeat even if u crop the remaining image in half :surprised

greeeat work antro.great work.

Wi_2
03-10-2004, 02:56 PM
jeez.. are u all f%$n mad..??
racism.. like common..
if those heads where white.. nobody would do a thing..

i know real racism exists.. but sorry u guy's ur really overreacting here..
ur using this as some kind of excuse.. that's lame..

lamer then any kind om discrimination..
just get the fu3k over it..
if he would really want to hurt u he would..

aargh.. can't stand this kind of crap..
we are all humans here.. so act like one..
damned just get over it.. past is past.. if u can't how can the bad side..?

nice work though :) sorry for the trouble..

loked
03-10-2004, 05:53 PM
Wow, but some people are ignorant. I think this discussion is really not gonna get anywhere and this post is becoming a political thread which really shouldnt be it's purpose.

So I'm done with it and I think Antropus is an incredible artist. I take my hat off to Antropus and I'm sorry he had to change his work.

later:wavey:
loked

3D-ima Green
03-10-2004, 09:40 PM
heh, funny image.. :)

very good work antropus!

BonoMan
03-10-2004, 10:03 PM
Huh...I thought it was funny.

I live in Mississippi...king of racism (although it's really not as bad as you'd think...). And most of us young 'uns around here have progressed in our ideals and racism isn't an issue with us. However with the older crowd (ESPECIALLY the old ladies around here) it still exists. But it doesn't exist on a damaging level really...it's actually just kinda sad. And when we, black or white, hear some old lady make some stupid racist comment we just laugh it off and feel sorry for them and usually make fun of whatever he or she said later on. They're just stuck in their old ideals and they aren't really in a position to be really damaging.

So I thought this image was just pokin' fun at old racist white grandmas. I thought it was pokin' fun at racism.

Locutus
03-11-2004, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by theglenster

does the word racism still exist because some wont let it die?

Dude, unless you've been on the receiving end of racism, you really can't make such a comment.
Originally posted by CourtJester

As for those of you who think that covering your censorious, race-obsessed impulses with the fig leaf of "as a person of X race", well you clearly do not understand that the prerequisite to racism is precisely that sort of *race consciousness*. And rather than help eliminate it (as a step towards the colorblindedness once held as an ideal by liberalism), you have helped exacerbate it.

Well, nice going. I, for one, am disgusted.
You are entitled to your opinion and feelings, but it doesn't change how people have and will continue to react to work like this.

mosconariz
03-11-2004, 02:09 AM
Misundestanding killed art!!!
:cry:

Spritemare
03-11-2004, 03:01 AM
would there happen to be a link to the original?

annaleah
03-11-2004, 03:31 PM
whoops

annaleah
03-11-2004, 03:35 PM
Maybe it wouldve suited everyone better had it been of anorexia nervosa inflicted or bulimic supermodels with huge breasts and low IQs.....














Annaleah

unwrap
03-11-2004, 04:46 PM
She's stunning!!! :eek:

GrantMan
03-11-2004, 07:37 PM
This is getting rediculous. I understand each sides view on this topic. Racism is a horrible thing and I wish there were some way to just open everyone's eyes. But until that day comes, we need to use common sense. If the original image posted actually offended someone, to them I say "give me a break." The artwork was solid, the woman was stuffed, the image was comical, and the artist even explained his position when this racism topic began. People are too sensitive if this is going to cause an artist to change his image. Now he's removed the plumbers and left a message for everyone. But should he have had to? Racism is tossed around way too much without solid reason and is one of the reasons we're losing our freedom of speech. Antropus had every right to post that image with his own personal interpretation and shouldn't have to explain himself to these overly sensitive people who look for reasons to cry "racist.":rolleyes:


Antropus, you did an awesome job here! I'd seen the plumber and the old lady separately and loved them even more when combined. (And not because I'm racist.) Sorry you've hit such a nerve, I know it wasn't your intention. Keep up the good work and don't let people influence your artistic decisions.

:applause:

rafaelgm
03-19-2004, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by Antropus
Oh well... :rolleyes:

I'm Brazilian but I thought to have writing in english before. Maybe with bold you can understand better:

"I did what I thought was the best thing to do in the actual circumstances. Please, now respect my decision to put down "all together", as you said. My work, my reputation. So, certainly is the maximum that I can do for you guys. Now look forward, not to back. Make your art and be happy :)".

I can't write more clear and I can't help you anymore. For me this post is in the exact way that some people wants: dead.

I will not send this work to 3D Awards because I have absolutely NO CHANCES right now. I think a respectable jury don't deserve what I heard and I felt here.

Thanks
What is going on here? Antropus, you did an amazing work!!!

But it seems people can't make a picture of an old lady with a gun and some heads on the wall.

If the lady was black and the heads were white, SOME people would say:
"- What? The black lady killed the white guy? Black people are killers? You racist!!!"

If the lady was white and the heads were black, SOME people would say:
"- What? Black people deserve to die? WTF! You racist!!!"

If the lady was black and the heads were black, SOME people would say:
"- What? Black people killing and black people dying? You racist!!!"

If the lady was white and the heads were white, SOME people would say:
"- What? No black people in the picture? What's the problem with black people? You racist!!!"

So, Antropus, I'm very sorry, that's what we call in portuguese a "sinuca de bico" (i'm Brazillian too). That's why I said people can't make a picture like this. Here in Brazil there are not BLACK people, or WHITE people, or even BLUE people, but there are only PEOPLE. Like Antropus said, here we have a big mix of races, it's a very heterogeneous country. You could have posted this image in any Brazillian contest and noone would feel bad about it (neither black people nor white, red, orange...). That's why I love my country! But when you submit an artwork in a foreign forum, there are those people who think different. Damn, racism is only in people's minds. I've read this post and I'm a bit confused.

Well, anyway, KEEP WORKING man, you are a really good person, I know you're not racist, you are the man! You have great skills! You know that and we all know that too. Just be more careful when creating an artwork, because not everyone thinks the same way we think.

"People have to free their minds..."

(Excuse my bad english...)

Locutus
03-20-2004, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by rafaelgm

Damn, racism is only in people's minds. I've read this post and I'm a bit confused.



Unfortunately, Brazil and the US have cultures that are different. In the US racism doesn't just exist in people's minds, it is still a stark reality. Sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist won't solve the problem.
Brazil doesn't have the history of hate the US has and therefore you have no idea what it's like.
I don't dispute Antropus' ability, nor do I think he is racist. However, if someone from another country is going to post work like this in a US forum, that person needs to understand that it's going to hit some nerves. Making light of how people HONESTLY feel is insulting and adds to the general insensitivity to the reality of racism in this country. The fact that you have not experienced it makes you unqualified to comment about whether or not racism exists and it shows in your post.
In this country, an image like that LOOKS as if it supports racism, even though it was never, ever intended to do so.