FPrime released next week?

[CourtJester]

Originally posted by little5points
I guess a lot of you still have unanswered questions, but I've seen enough to warrant a purchase.

No kidding. My boss walked out of his office yesterday and said "New Worley video out, now he's doing radiosity" and I just about ran him over to get in and take a look. He was BS'ing me, of course, but given what he's shown, I was ready to believe it.

I'm soooo there.

[LittleFenris]

From Worley's site:

Two final still renders of the complex 2/27 demo scene:
LightWave medium AA render: 7 hours, 29 minutes, 8 seconds.
FPrime render: 30 minutes, 18 seconds.

He took 7 hours off the render with the same quality...thats just insane!

[ages]

What does this mean for lightwaves rendering capabilities? I mean surely ppl at Neewtek are in serious talks with Worley working with him on this one?

Lightwave renderer needs some work, raytracing is very slow, so is radosity.

[little5points]

...and the DOF looks better on FPrime

[Dennik]

15 times faster than LW's renderer! :buttrock:
"Ini mani myni mo, no wonder where my money will go!"

http://home.att.net/~den_nik/temp/worleys_money.jpg

[Signal2Noise]

Betcha this will be the "Mystery Bonus" for us soon-to-be-LW[8]-users.:drool:

[richcz3]

Originally posted by Signal to Noise
Betcha this will be the "Mystery Bonus" for us soon-to-be-LW[8]-users.:drool:
If that were the case...then LW8 should/would be out real soon like because I intend to BUY FPrime the second its released.

richcz3

[little5points]

what if FPrime doesn't work with LW8? ;)

[Fasty]

Originally posted by Signal to Noise
Betcha this will be the "Mystery Bonus" for us soon-to-be-LW[8]-users.:drool:


Don't count on it. :)

[pdrake]

dennik, i'd save another $20 bucks for a new keyboard too.

:p

[Ziah]

Originally posted by pdrake
dennik, i'd save another $20 bucks for a new keyboard too.

:p


ahhaa i also agree pdrake ..hey i wish that fprime bonus would be true but i don't see it as being a bonus its very unrealistic :cry:

[ages]

PROMOTION FOR WORLEY FPRIME -


Act now and you will get $30 off when you purchase FPrime with every F9 key pulled out and mailed in to us...

[js33]

Originally posted by little5points
what if FPrime doesn't work with LW8?

Worley has at least 2 videos using F Prime in 8 already. :buttrock:

I hope this is not the free gift Newtek is promising. Well it would be nice but what if everyone gets F Prime the second it's released only to have Newtek chime in with it being the free gift 2 days later. :D

I think the free Newtek gift will be a drool bucket for everyone that purchases F Prime. :drool: Or more realistically I think they will give us early adopters a free 8 manual. :D

Cheers,
JS

[Andy741]

I thought one of the reasons people buy Lightwave is for it's particular look in the render. Now Worley has duplicated it and it's faster. I wonder if it's integrated into Lightwave or could be a standalone plugin for other apps too.

[js33]

Originally posted by Andy741
I thought one of the reasons people buy Lightwave is for it's particular look in the render. Now Worley has duplicated it and it's faster. I wonder if it's integrated into Lightwave or could be a standalone plugin for other apps too.

Yes we like the LW renderer look but now we can have it at lightening speed. :beer:

I would imagine some of the base code is aplicable to any 3D program but I think F Prime as a final program will be deeply tied into LW and would have to be heavily modified to work on other software.

Cheers,
JS

[ahs]

the two pics are NOT the same quality !!!


cheers
andreas

[Julez4001]

Which one do you consider better?

Hopefully he'll update the site with a full feature list of the "what it can do" and "what it can't".

[ahs]

the fprime one. but thats not the point.

worley says, there NO difference

<<FPrime's engine traces the same geometry, follows the same reflection and transparency ray recursion, and computes and stores the same floating point point color precision as LightWave does>>

and the pics are different ?!

cheers
andreas

[Mattoo]

Yeh, it's also interesting to note that LWs blurry reflections on the ground are better quality than FPrimes (granted, the FPrime DOF is a vast improvement).

[samartin]

I hope he has some way of exporting the image into .PSD, ie. using the layers and building them properly so we can muck around with various elements like the soft reflections...

[yog]

Originally posted by ahs
the fprime one. but thats not the point.

worley says, there NO difference

<<FPrime's engine traces the same geometry, follows the same reflection and transparency ray recursion, and computes and stores the same floating point point color precision as LightWave does>>

and the pics are different ?!


Yeah, what kind of scam is Worley trying to pull, giving us a vastly improved quality of render (at least in DOF and speed), and calling it the SAME as LW ???
I have a good mind not to buy F-Prime, no matter how fast it is :D ;)

I think the point Mr. Worley was trying to make is that he was using the same brute force method of ray recursion and actual objects as Lightwave used as some people had suggested he was using proxie objects and a lower or less accurate ray casting method. Also he makes the point that he is calculating the same colour depth (floating point) as LW, as some people had also speculated he was using a lower colour depth in order to achieve the same speed gains.

BTW - Floating point percision renders in F-Prime, WOOOT :applause:

[Julez4001]

U know ...
I've been asking Newtek for a multipass export that combines psd, rpf, OpenGl render (jetstream or just render whats ont he screen to a file), Comp Assisant (matte and object per render), XSI export manager (where you get directories created for each pass on the fly) but maybe it should go to Worley..I mean if he can do Fprime..surely a render manager is not too far off to hope.

[Cman]

Originally posted by LittleFenris
From Worley's site:



He took 7 hours off the render with the same quality...thats just insane!

Personally I think it looks better than the LW render. So it's 7 hours off AND looks better!! :bounce:

The blurriness is grainy, but the LW blur is just bleh! I wonder if he ran the frame for 1-hour would it smooth out even more?

Also, the grille on the cars in the FPrime are nice and clean, while the LW grille is still aliased!

Very nice. I hope we get to see another video today. :)

[yog]

Originally posted by Cman

Also, the grille on the cars in the FPrime are nice and clean, while the LW grille is still aliased!


Yep I noticed that as well, not a small difference either.

I've got a project going at the momment that has a number of fine grills on it, and at Medium Enhanced AA at 1600x1200 the aliasing is absolutely horrible. This leaves me with a difficult choice, render at twice as big (3200x2400) and scale down in Photoshop, or step up to High or Enhanced High AA. I'm not looking forward to either as the render (with GI) is already over 7 hours.

Heck, I could get F-Prime, throw blurry reflections on half the objects, give it a good dose of DOF blur and still have it render in a fraction of the time :thumbsup:

[little5points]

Anyone else doing the Photoshop layer test (turning the top layer off and on) to compare the renders? :D


It's like going to the eye doctor. "Now which is better? A or B? A? or B?" :)

[Signal2Noise]

Cost of FPrime hasn't been announced anywhere yet has it?

Dennik's got $290 riding on it so hopefully FPrime doesn't go for more than that, eh!?

It's my b-day tomorrow so I'm hoping Newtek's Bonus email notice is a good one! (hint, hint, nudge, nudge, say no more!);)

[Mattoo]

The pricing was stated on the Worley site last week.

".... but we have already decided the price will be only $399. But we will have a generous introductory discount (an even larger than previous tools!) of just $279! We are not accepting orders yet. "

[odinjog]

I'm not a lightwave user but considering it. I am impressed with what I have seen of FPrime. Looking at the Worely web site left me with questions about why you would want to by it when they already have G2. Can someone please explain to me the differences?

[Sil3]

Looks like Dennik not only has the money ready, but he also teared off the F9 key :p

[leuey]

**edit** i noticed I quoted the wrong post - my bad**

yes, layer them up then change the transfer mode to difference and you can see the uh..er... difference between them. The AA and a reflection or blocked shadow is what I see. It practically looks like an edge filter (which makes sense seeing as how the AA is obviously different).

I don't think worley was saying they look **THE SAME**, but that they are both tracing the same rays to the same floating point.


-Greg


Originally posted by samartin
I hope he has some way of exporting the image into .PSD, ie. using the layers and building them properly so we can muck around with various elements like the soft reflections...

[LittleFenris]

Originally posted by odinjog
I'm not a lightwave user but considering it. I am impressed with what I have seen of FPrime. Looking at the Worely web site left me with questions about why you would want to by it when they already have G2. Can someone please explain to me the differences?

Because G2 isn't nearly that fast and it uses buffered info and changes things like lights...its not really a "realtime" render engine which is basically what FPrime appears to be. I'm sure a more technical savy person will chime in with a better answer.

[Finkster]

Originally posted by odinjog
I'm not a lightwave user but considering it. I am impressed with what I have seen of FPrime. Looking at the Worely web site left me with questions about why you would want to by it when they already have G2. Can someone please explain to me the differences?

G2 is basically a surfacing and lighting preview system. You do a regular render and G2 stores all the data about the image and the object surfaces. G2 will then allow you to tweak surface properties of any object, such as diffuse, specular, reflection, colour etc., while providing a real-time preview of your changes. Any changes to your scene (moving lights, objects, surface textures etc.) will not be reflected in the preview and require another render. From what I have seen G2 has an excellent subsurface scattering system as well as several other great shaders, which seems to be as much of a selling point as its preview ability.
F-prime, however just seems to be a regular renderer, but with high quality output and very fast render times - so fast that it may be used as an interactive preview system.

[Beamtracer]

It's a Trojan Horse!

Well, it could be if Worley wanted to. Worley would have the ability to build a full scale renderer that would blow the socks off the whole 3D industry. It could be an alternative to the renderers that people use now.

Making F-Prime as a plug-in could just be a "foot in the door", before it becomes an independent entity.

[CourtJester]

I was looking at the LW DOF shot and thinking that it would stomp the F-Prime shot if it had X-DOF on it..

Then I wondered, can we post-process F-Prime using plugs like X-DOF? Given how faaaast X-DOF is, that could be the ultiamte cool. If not that, at least be able to export depth buffers for post process.

:bounce:

[Cman]

Is XDOF that fast?

[Sil3]

Originally posted by Cman
Is XDOF that fast?

Compared to LW´s own DOF? yah, and it looks like real DOF :buttrock:

Kinda like Fprime speed is in relation to LW´s own render :beer:

[m_luscombe]

So, uh, is that it for the features?

I'm still waiting to hear about SAS and G2 compatibility. These are the two biggest render drains for me (having not explored animation or HVs) and they are Worley products.

They seemed like natural demo material. The lack of a SAS or G2 demo seems to infer that they aren't supported.

[Cman]

Originally posted by Sil3
Compared to LW´s own DOF? yah, and it looks like real DOF :buttrock:

Kinda like Fprime speed is in relation to LW´s own render :beer:

So conceivably, one could take this DOF scene, render HighAA in LW without DOF, apply XDOF and get a good AA image in 30min?

That is excellent!

[gathering]

I would hardly ever use the default reflection blurring with the LW renderer. You cannot set up the sample only the amount of blurryness . So actually it really works well with worley's "adaptive" sampling method and not working well with LW AA because you cannot undersample this blurring effect for one AA pass and render fast lots of samples and get a nice result at the end.

Worley knows what to advertise FPime with.

:rolleyes:

But if you do it in the "right" way you can get acceptable results.

IMAGE!

http://kep.tar.hu/gathering/index.phtml?aid=27632828&pid=4569802

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