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dzogchen
01-25-2002, 07:39 PM
Hi,
I am thinking of saving some money to buy a full hair plugin. Which is better? Shave or Sasquatch? Any good reason why etc etc etc.....

Jared

Mike RB
01-25-2002, 07:52 PM
I'm a Shave user, and i have nothing but good things to say about it. Unfortunately im at work and don't have the time to sell you on it. Version 1.5 with volumetric renderer will be you 'very soon' and the price may go up. Now may be the time to buy.

The volumetric renderer will allow shave to do what no other hair renderer does, it will be fully intergrated into the LW rendering pipeline (ie: reflections, refraction, radiosity...) the hair in XSI 2.0 is a port of shave to XSI, and the deal with Softimage is that any new features that go into the XSI version come back to the LW one.

Mike.

ambassador
01-25-2002, 09:12 PM
Sasquatch also does Radiosity, HDRI, caustics, and reflections. It is stable, and fast.

Havent used shave much, but from what ive seen, sasquatch has more options....but in all they both render quickly

im not sure if they have demos, you should check the sites.

Mike RB
01-25-2002, 09:32 PM
No reflections on sas.

Mike

dzogchen
01-26-2002, 11:42 AM
I have checked both websites. Sasquatch doesn't have a demo. There is one for Shave. Not sure if the Shave demo allow you to render. I really like to test the quality of both plugins. I am actually quite impressed with renders of Shave for "Bob with hairs", done by Mike RB. The shine and sheen of the hair is almost real, far better than those I have seen in Shave's website. Not sure if it is Mike's lighting technique or the qualities of Shave. Next come ease of use. Sasquatsch appears to me easier to use. Anyone out there who use these 2 plugins like to share their views?

Mike RB
01-26-2002, 04:31 PM
Ok here are some answers about Shave for you:

The demo does not allow you to render, Joe has said hes considering a watermark version so this may change soon.

Shave right now (v1.4x) is a pixel filter plugin that still works with LW 5.x. Because Joe has kept (up to this point) backwards compatibility with 5.6 there are some pretty weird rules that make Shave sen harder to use. Once you learn them (just like with anything) its pretty easy to use.

Joe has said that 'very soon' there will be a 1.5 of shave. This will be a 6.x plugin and use a volumetric renderer. Which means the hair or instanced objects (dragon scales, trees, feathers...) will have proper shadows , be reflected, use radiosity lighting....

You might have seen XSI 2.0 hair videos. Joe ported Shave to XSI and now all the new goodies he coded for XSI are coming back to shave LW.

Shave is cheaper 485$ Sas is 599$.

Shave comes with Lipservice, an excellent deformation, pupettering and lipsyncing tool. You might have seen a goose animation i was working on last summer http://www.3dluvr.com/blackbourn/wip/goosefinal.avi
its still not finished, but it uses Lipservice for the lipsyncing and it only took be 2 hours to get a full minute of speech synced up.

In Sasquatches defense it is *very* much faster at the render stage of things. But then again if you trying to get your long hair animated with motion designer you might never be satisfied with the results and never put your project to render. Shaves hair dynamics are automated.

Here is a grass test i did will automatic animation applied:

http://www.3dluvr.com/blackbourn/wip/grass.avi

Mike

dzogchen
01-27-2002, 01:02 AM
Thanks Mike for you detailed reply. Any idea when is Shave 1.5 releasing? I have not seen the XSI video but I will check it out. Oh yes one more question, will Shave 1.5 be a free upgrade for owners of Shave 1.4x?

Mike RB
01-27-2002, 04:40 PM
Joe has said 'very soon' for 1.5 and as far as I know he hasent decided on the upgrade, weather its free or not. You might want to contact him directly about that. hipjoey@hotmail.com

Mike

Sama3d
01-30-2002, 08:28 PM
Mike is Right Shave is awsome. I use both shave and sasq and for long hair and fur shave is great. Just cause its easy to style hair in shave UI with autogrooming, and tons of styling tools.
Sasq is limited in styling because your stuck with lw modeling tools so you have to model a wig of about 50 or so poly chains for it to work, plus you have to rely on MD for dynamics. Sasq in my opinion is just good for fur, and shave kinda does it all. (long hair, short hair, fur, poly instances-metapolys)

-Sama

Adam Klein
02-01-2002, 02:37 PM
I really like shave, it is very simple to use and is on the verge of becoming simpler and better, but regardless, it is an invaluable tool to me because once you put hair on one model you'll never forget how, how's that for simple. besides at the Lipservice and Shave group you can ask questions anytime.

But I would also like to stress that LipService is the secret gem of the whole thing, the point displacement from your morph targets are splines not linear so facial animation is soooooooooo much smoother than morph targets or facial bones... both of which I will never use at this point.....

so figure a couple hundred bucks for each and you have you're answer right there!

AK

Adam Klein
02-01-2002, 02:41 PM
Oh, by the way, yes the metapolys are incredible.... I couldn't believe it when joe created that feature ... a dream come true, now trees grass, weeds, rocks, etc. of all shapes and sizes ... I guess Sas must do that too, but dude, it's awesome!! ahhh time for sleepy.

A

CIM
02-03-2002, 04:01 PM
What's the deal with The Shave/Lipservice Yahoo.com group? I signed up like a week ago--still haven't heard from anyone/anything about becoming a member--it still says my membership is pending.

Sama3d
02-03-2002, 07:00 PM
Oh i think you signed up alittle late. Hes not taking any more orders on the software. (takes alot of time out to explain and reteach new users) because hes trying to iron out all the bugs for ver 1.5 which will be amazing. you'll have to wait for that. sorry

CIM
02-03-2002, 07:02 PM
I'm talking about the yahoo group where you can post questions, that type of thing. I know he has suspended orders, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Mike RB
02-03-2002, 10:50 PM
I think hes at an inbetween point where new users are too much work for him, and i guess he extended that to the entire group. Maybe email him personally about it. His email should be on his site.

Mike

dzogchen
02-04-2002, 10:33 PM
Is Shave and a haircut transferable? I am thinking of getting 2nd hand from someone who want to sell it. I will be getting the dongle and the latest plugin version I have to download from the net right?

Mike RB
02-04-2002, 10:40 PM
all you need is the dongle and you will own Lipservice and shave:extreme

CIM
02-05-2002, 01:38 PM
Shave is nice for fast, easy long hair setup--but for most everything else Sasquatch is the better choice. Sasquatch has more tools for styling, fiber type, etc. The dynamics for the fibers are alot better--just not as automatic.

So, unless you plan on only doing long hair setups, you'd be best to get Sasquatch. Sure, Sasquatch is kind of overwelming at first, but once you understand what does what, you'll see the power it has to offer.

Shave is making leap-and-bounds though. It's starting to get lots of cool options.

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