PDA

View Full Version : Look Ma, No UVs!


SplineGod
03-03-2004, 06:49 AM
Ive found a bit of free time so I decided to see what I could do with procedural maps. This is the first pass at this and its coming along after a few minutes. :)

http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/skin_test2.jpg

NanoGator
03-03-2004, 07:06 AM
Are you using weight maps to give him a five o'clock shadow, or is that a trick of the lighting?

SplineGod
03-03-2004, 09:12 AM
I have about 5 weight maps on it now.
Heres the latest test.
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/skin_test3.jpg

FerryvD
03-03-2004, 09:16 AM
You used the weightmaps in this case to get different color tones in the skin??

I really should go deeper into the weightmap stuff :)

SplineGod
03-03-2004, 09:19 AM
Im using the weight maps more like alpha maps. They can overlap each other and each can be used to effect color, spec, diffuse, bump etc. :)
The freckles, veins in the forehead, stubble, etc etc are all procedurals.

apex
03-03-2004, 12:14 PM
Thats really pretty impressive. It's almost like a 3d paint app within LW if I follow you correctly. Any chance of seeing the different weight maps? And do any of the weight maps overlap each other? (I guess I could wait to see but asked if you didn't post 'em). Oh, and how many layers of procedurals are being created for this thus far?

kenrem

modernhorse
03-03-2004, 12:46 PM
Very impressive Larry, i'm watching to see this progress.

Mattoo
03-03-2004, 01:10 PM
Newtek did a contest about a year back that provided a model for you to texture using only procedurals and weightmaps. There was some really good examples:

contest winners (http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/contests/sept-02/winners/index.html)

policarpo
03-03-2004, 02:22 PM
Thanks for reposting that link Mattoo, that was a really cool contest...a lot of LightWavers submitted some good work.

Dreamwave
03-03-2004, 05:31 PM
the colours look very good, but he has an explosive hair growth and the area around the eyes is a bit rough too.

But the forehead and the colours look very good :thumbsup:

SplineGod
03-03-2004, 07:52 PM
Thanks!
Im still having fun with this. The weight maps do overlap in some cases. Im using some for specific things like specularity, some for color and bump etc. Its very easy to do. :) Its easy to go back
and create or adjust a weight map. Heres the maps I have:

http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/weights.jpg

Philours
03-03-2004, 08:28 PM
Hey Larry, nice job here.
Why wouldn't you try to add some vertex color on top of the procedural map ? Should do the job quite well.

SplineGod
03-03-2004, 09:52 PM
Hi Philours,
That would be an interesting idea too. You could add some color vmaps. Thanks! Ill have to mess with that too.


Anyways here some more tweaks on the weight maps and some values...

http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/skin_test4.jpg

Mattoo
03-03-2004, 10:50 PM
Okay, it's pretty dull and I did this a few years back but I was quite impressed with the results and still looks pretty realistic now.

It's all procedurals/weights/gradients appart from the handle grip holes.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/matthew.p3/hammer0000.jpg

Mattoo
03-03-2004, 11:24 PM
Ugh... how many procedurals...? crikey it's been a while. I've had to dig the model out.....

A mixture of old fashioned fractal noise, dented and crumple with quite a bit of help from the IFW collection, namely IFWDented, IFWHardWood and IFWCrumple all modulated with a few weightmaps it appears.

So it looks like I cheated with the IFW stuff a bit, that collection really was a time saver when I was doing this kinda stuff more often.

CourtJester
03-04-2004, 05:57 AM
Interesting stuff, I hope more people post their procedural-only stuff. I love trying to get the look I want using only stock tools, no images (hence my recurring beef with the bugs that prevent many Textured Filter hacks in Image Ed from being saved). The main reason I didn't enter Newtek's contest was because it was a character, not my area of expertise.

With the exception of the embryo inside, my recent Eggs of Evil (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123479) shot was done entirely using procedurals and gradients.

FerryvD
03-04-2004, 07:16 AM
because of this thread i searched on flay for a nice tutorial to start with.

I found this, it is a nice introduction in weightmap texturing, and i recommend this to everyone who wants to learn this too.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/anttij77/Tutorials/Texturing_With_Weights/Sininenplaneetta_TWW_Intro.htm

colkai
03-04-2004, 08:48 AM
First example of using weight maps for texturing I tried was the simbiont 'dagger' tut - that really opened my eyes.

Larkin
03-04-2004, 09:12 AM
another one:
http://www.andynicholas.com/thezone/index.php?area=showitem&fromarea=art&page=0&order=0&sort=date&article=1

FerryvD
03-04-2004, 12:02 PM
http://www.ferryvd.nl/upload/uploads/hoofdje7.jpg
here's my first induvidial try on weightmap texturing. I used a head of mine which still needed some nice textures.

This technique is amazing

SplineGod
03-04-2004, 04:58 PM
Hey Ferry,
Thats coming along pretty well. I like the technique too. I just wish VIPER would prove more useful with this method. :)

LittleFenris
03-04-2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
I just wish VIPER would prove more useful with this method. :)

FPrime anyone?

I'm definitely going to see how this technique might help out my Rocco model. Thanks for posting this, now I know its possible. :)

SplineGod
03-04-2004, 08:01 PM
The nice thing is that is definately a simple way to enhance a surface. You can combine this with standarded mapping techniques as well as UV maps. :)

Dreamwave
03-04-2004, 08:04 PM
Not sure how that weightmapping works...it it kind of like a UV map that marks where your procedurals are 'procedured'

SplineGod
03-04-2004, 08:07 PM
They can act like alpha maps.
You could apply your procedural and then a gradient above that layer. The input parameter is set to weight and then you specify which weight map. The blending mode needs to be set to alpha.
Once you do that you can determine how far to the edge the procedural goes based on the gradient. Very handy. :)

gerardo
03-05-2004, 05:24 AM
Very interesting thread Splinegod.
There is something curious in your weightmaps, Ive never used negative weightmaps as alphas for texturing (Ive never needed it); tell me please, which is their sense in this case?


Gerardo

SplineGod
03-05-2004, 06:08 AM
Actually Ive found that a 0% weight isnt opaque. Its more like 50% alpha. Heres an example:

gerardo
03-05-2004, 07:22 AM
Of course, but that also depends on the gradient that I use:
http://www.geocities.com/gerardstrada/Ramps.txt

SplineGod
03-05-2004, 07:27 AM
Another thing I liked about using the red and blue was that it was easier for me to see exactly where the red area stopped exactly :)

gerardo
03-05-2004, 07:32 AM
Good point :)

Kruvi
03-05-2004, 11:26 AM
Well thanks this certainly cleared some things up, used weightmaps lately for texturing a WW2 german helmet and I was wondering why the differences wouldn't come out properly, seems I was using to small values there.

But I agree that it's an excellent method, especially when you suck at making your own textures like I do :)

NewAgeTitan
03-05-2004, 06:19 PM
So...if I could master this approach, I could avoid all the stretching
problems I have with UVs?

Hmmm...more R&D time. :shrug:

modernhorse
03-05-2004, 06:45 PM
Ferryvd,

I have a cartooney character I need to texture. I'd like some input into your process (if I may). Feel free to pm me if you wish. Thanks, your character looks great.

Claymation
03-05-2004, 08:30 PM
The more extreme the difference the harder the edge. I tried 400/-400 and it shows up as a pretty hard edge. But at this strength the edges show up somewhat as points coming out the edge.

Jay

SplineGod
03-05-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by NewAgeTitan
So...if I could master this approach, I could avoid all the stretching
problems I have with UVs?

Hmmm...more R&D time. :shrug:

The idea behind using UV maps is so you dont get stretching.
If you get stretching simply adjust your UVs while watching the texture.
A better way is to apply something like a checkboard pattern to your UV map and adjust the UVs until it look pretty even.
Once that works use that UV as a template to make your real texture from. :)
Using weight maps this way can definately be used in place of UVs in some cases or to enhance them.

NewAgeTitan
03-05-2004, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
The idea behind using UV maps is so you dont get stretching.
If you get stretching simply adjust your UVs while watching the texture.
A better way is to apply something like a checkboard pattern to your UV map and adjust the UVs until it look pretty even.
Once that works use that UV as a template to make your real texture from. :)
Using weight maps this way can definately be used in place of UVs in some cases or to enhance them.

Ty Splinegod...

Actually, that is what I was wanting to avoid. It seems like I spend more time tweaking them then what seems reasonable.

I will give the weight maps a try and post something.

CourtJester
03-05-2004, 11:39 PM
Hey Splinegod, in your post regarding weight maps where 0 equals 50%, you may notice that in the 50% zone, the fractal noise, instead of being faded as it ought, it is being "clipped" down. Do you know any way to get around that?

SplineGod
03-05-2004, 11:54 PM
Since the parameters go from -100% to 100% I create a weight map fo the whole head. Its just that he parts where I definately want to see the texture I set the weight to 100% and the parts I dont want to see I set to -100%.
Also as Gerardo showed you can do some clipping by adjusting the keys in the gradient bar.

SplineGod
03-06-2004, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by NewAgeTitan
Ty Splinegod...

Actually, that is what I was wanting to avoid. It seems like I spend more time tweaking them then what seems reasonable.

I will give the weight maps a try and post something.

Tweaking is inherently part of texturing. Its definately the slowest part of the process. Reasonable varies from project to project. UVs or weights arent even necessary to texture. Plenty of good texturing was done with just the standard projections in LW. You can planar or cyclindrically wrap textures and then use alpha maps to blend a planar map down the z axis and one down the x axis so you dont see any smearing.

CGTalk Moderation
01-17-2006, 02:00 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.