MAYA realistic human skin shader in discussion

[Tocpe]

Can someone please "donate" a fairly realistic head mesh for us to work with so we can all work with the same subject? That way everyone participating in this thread will have the same subject to compare.

[lazzhar]

Yes, it would be a cool idea, but this thread should be moved to rendering section.

[Tocpe]

Can only the Mods do that? If so, please move this thread. :)

[kiaran]

Cool idea, I'll do my best to help. Unfortunately, I don't have any good head models kickin around. Someone get this thing started!

[Tocpe]

I already got one modeler who offered their model for us to use. I started a thread in the modeling section to ask for a free head (Read here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126968) ) It's a really nice head too. :) I'm gonna give that thread a couple of days to see if we get any other offers.

[peanut]

defenitively cant agree more to whats posted here, i would surely take part in this realistic head texturing journey,

*seal of approval*

[Emmortal1]

I as well, as this is something I've began to tackle and haven't really got involved in any of the other threads going on. I think this would be good for us as a Maya community to see what we can come up with. I'm all for sharing any information that I have come up with.

[kryoboy]

uploading a head you can use if your like im really intrested in partispating in this. give me a moment want to merge the halfs.

[kryoboy]

Here you go guys, im happy to donate this head. cant wait this will be so fun.

*edit* ahh, i see your thread now! =D oh well still I am willing to donate and host my file if you like.

Here is the download


:thumbsup:

[URL=]Download ZIP! 1.45 MB (]Download RAR! 592 KB[/URL) :shrug:


http://www.internetdex.com/headdonate.jpg


Texture test, its low res and ear wasnt finnished, its all finnished in the download and wire.

http://www.internetdex.com/testtex.jpg

[anthonyevans847]

While this is a great idea for the Maya community, might I suggest that people looking for high quality photorealistic renders (for human skin, among other things) try out a renderman workflow as both fakes and real SSS are much easier there. Its quite a steep learning curve, but its well worth the result (and the skill is very marketable), and best of all, its free :)

Liquid for Maya (http://sourceforge.net/projects/liquidmaya/) is a great maya-to-rib bridge, and there are more than a handful of free renderman renderers (with varying levels of compliance), including:
3Delight (http://www.3delight.com/)
Aqsis (http://www.aqsis.com/)
Pixie (http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~okan/Pixie/pixie.htm)
JRman (http://jrman.sf.net/)

And for writing shaders there are also many free options, including some that in part resemble Maya's hypershade like Shaderman (http://www.dream.com.ua/thetool.html).

The beauty of the renderman standard is that the renderer is interchangable (at least in theory) and there are many free shaders (with source) available online (including realistic skin).

Of course, all of this is overkill for simpler projects, but when a large number of people are working together it can really boost productivity.

[anthonyevans847]

Here is my head donation:

Link (http://uk.geocities.com/anthonyevans8475@btopenworld.com/)

Tony

[Tocpe]

something just occured to me, and perhaps its still to early, but this project may outgrow a simple thread...just a thought.

BTW, I put a deadline on the head donations in the head donation thread ( March 5th midnight) that way we can get started asap. Please check out the head thread and see which ones you like. I'm thinking we'll probably want to work on a few different heads running the gammut <sp?> of human face structures. i.e. young, old, male, female.

[TheWraith]

i posted some renderings of a head i could donate on the other thread you started in the modeling section

[Tocpe]

I'd like to thank everyone who offered their models for us to use. :applause: Below you'll find the pics of the heads offered to the group. Please PM me with which head(s) you like the best and think will yield the best results for the shaders.

You'll notice we have one elderly male head, one young male and three young female heads to choose from. Again, to keep this thread from getting bloated with the voting results, PM me with your vote. Here are the heads:

http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/cg/mayashader/heads2.jpg

[Tocpe]

I will keep a running tab of the group's voting in this post. I'll update it as I receive the votes as much as possible.


***EDIT moved the results farther down in the thread - keep scrolling...***

[Morganism]

This is a good idea for a thread.
Some of you may have seen this tutorial (http://www.3dm-mc.com/tutorials/maya/texturing/), but it's got a pretty complicated skin shader network (that I don't entirely understand) and might have some insight to offer. The shader network is on page 5.
Stephen Stahlberg also outlines some skin shader concepts on his website (http://www.androidblues.com/shadetut.html)
So, that might be a good place to start, or to build ideas off of.

[KaB]

Another head if you need one.

http://www.planetquake.com/kabalarena/files/head.jpg



Download (http://www.planetquake.com/kabalarena/files/head.zip)


Looking forward to see some nice shader networks.

[Tocpe]

I have been playing with is idea the last couple of days since starting this thread...I'm wondering if a discussion this complex will be best served by using a thread? I mean this project could get very deep and wide very quickly. Especially if we start getting into theory discussions on the various parts of a shader. I can see how this thread could get very muddled quickly and if we start different threads for these theory discussions, they could get lost in the CGTalk forums.

So I whipped up a quick web site for us to use that might make this process a little less painful. Please take a look at it and tell me if you think the group could benefit from a larger forum.

Here's the URL: http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/index.php

[eYadNesS]

Originally posted by Tocpe
So I whipped up a quick web site for us to use that might make this process a little less painful. Please take a look at it and tell me if you think the group could benefit from a larger forum.


You are jumping the gun a bit... :hmm:
Please don't make us understand you wrong!... :sad:

[Tocpe]

:) I might be. I think this project might be a bit more complex then it seems right now and we may need to have more room to really tackle it well and clearly. The site only took about 30 minutes to set up so if we decide it's overkill it's no big deal, I can delete it. I just have this creeping feeling that the information/techniques we discover while discussing this project may not be as easy to understand/follow if presented in a typical thread format.

Besides, when we're done with the skin shader, we can use the site to work on other kinds of shaders. :)

[eYadNesS]

I see asking CGTalk admin-s for creating a sub-forum for this in Maya forum will be better!... :shrug:

[Tocpe]

you're right it could be

[eYadNesS]

You could ask Leigh or Leonard about that, and give your reasons, aims, etc..
Or make a thread in CGTalk Support Forum asking for that...

[Tocpe]

I asked lildragon since he's one of the Mods in the Maya section.

[eYadNesS]

I prefer to make a thread in CGTalk Support Forum, because there Leigh will answer you, plus we will stand with you for creating like this sub-forum...

[Tocpe]

How does the rest of the group feel about moving this thread to a dedicated site? Or a new forum? (if the mods will create one for us) I'm interested in what the group as a whole feels would be best for this discussion. I'm not disreguarding your suggestion eYadNesS, I just wanna get a reading on what the group as a whoile thinks. :)

[anthonyevans847]

IMHO, we should at least get started with the shader itself, rather than focusing on all that stuff just yet!

When we need to move the discussion, we can... its no big deal since by then we already know where this is going and how complex it will be.

For the time being, IMO, its fine the way it is. Plenty of people are willing to participate right here, and there is no need for a dedicated website.


Tony

[Tocpe]

Any more votes on the head?

The vote total as of 11:00 am Central Time on March 9, 2004:
BazC: 0
Kyroboy: 0
TheWraith: 0
Lyr: 3
Anthonyevans847: 0

I'm gonna close the voting on Wednesday 3/10/04 12:01pm Central time to help speed up the process so we can get started on the shaders. So get those votes in! :)

[Tocpe]

Well, it looks like we'll be working with Lyr's head first since a whole whopping 3 of us cast our votes. :) I've contacted Lyr and will post a link(s) to the model for download when it is ready. Keep an eye on the thread.

[rebeldreams]

OK, here's my 2 cents' worth; consider me IN!

Let us try and define the terms here; when you say "skin shader" I am assuming you mean an actual shader node in Maya itself, rather than a shader network? As was pointed out earlier, networks exist, although they are a bitch to sort out sometimes. That said, knocking together a shader itself as a plugin is not something I would relish on my own - kudos to those out there who can do it!

Now I find (together, probably, with most of you) the Maya Skin Shader solution ot be inadequate. it's a nice "toy" shader, but it doesn't allow for the sort of subtelty that a true skin shader should give.

So, here are some ideas:

- True SSS implementation
- Some sort of layer implementation to allow for attaching file textures and/or generating textures (for things like veins and subsurface "blotches"
- a range of "presets" for things like "baby skin" and "old skin", for example.
- "peachfuzz" layer as in the Skin Shader from Alias

All these must be controllable, of course...

And finally... here's my version of Stahlberg's skin network. I'll post the actual network itself when I get home (I'm at work right now!)
=====================
http://crashrender.com/Man_test.jpg
=====================

I'll keep on contributing as and when I can!

~Callum

[Tocpe]

Lyr will be UVmapping his model this weekend so we should have a workable model soon! :bounce: :applause:

Something just occured to me though, how should we handle different versions of Maya. I mean should we make the shader for users of 5.0 only and try to get the best result with MR, or possibly compromise the quality and make it available for say, Maya 4 and later?

And what about a standard lighting rig/scene for GI/FG?

I'm thinking that way we're all rendering with the same presets/starting point. I think it might be a good idea to redistribute a complete "base" package to the group: model, lights, scene elements (floor/walls,etc) and rendering settings.

Anyone have good experience setting that up so the skin will have the best possible lighting? If we set up a scene what scale should it be at? 1:1?

Questions, questions, questions...boy, I'm full of them today! ;)

[Emmortal1]

I think setting out a strong definition of what our goals here are should be the first thing that we accomplish. What exactly are we going for? What rendering platform will we use, Maya's or mental ray for Maya? Is this going to be a plugin (single node) shader written in C++, or is this going to be a shading network? Will there be a strong implementation of the BSSRDF standard or will there be a fake involved? For lighting purposes will there be a standard 3-point lighting setup or will there be GI/HDRI/FG involved? Since this is a Skin Shader set up, what will be the point of painting out custom maps for the head, i.e. color, diffuse, ambient, specular, reflectivity etc ? I think these questions need to be settled before we move on.

[rebeldreams]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
Since this is a Skin Shader set up, what will be the point of painting out custom maps for the head, i.e. color, diffuse, ambient, specular, reflectivity etc ?

Well, speaking personally, I would like the ability to import some sort of map; even the best skin shader in the world will not be controllable enough to give the sort of variation in tone necessary to skin a head realistically if it's procedural.. unless we are going to an undreamed-of level of control here, where you can specify lips and pigmentation blotches, freckles and wrinkles.. :surprised

[Tocpe]

Emmortal1 you hit the nail on the head. If we're gonna develop a plugin all I ask is that we make it available for multiple platforms.

I'm a little new to Maya shaders so I'm probably gonna have to leave some of those questions up to the more experienced users. I know personally I would like to see a very versatile and realistic skin shader developed. Yeah, yeah, I know, "have my cake and eat it too". :)

[Emmortal1]

rebeldreams: I fully agree, I wasn't implying that this would be an end all be all to skin shading for Maya, but my point was that if this is going to be a plugin then there wouldn't be really any point in mapping out a head so we can paint textures for it. I think there might be confusion between shaders and textures. There are already plenty of techniques for painting realistic human skin so there really isn't a point in going over that here. I think the point of this, or what I am getting from it, is a shader developed that has the ability to plug in custom painted texutres, but also has a strong base with a robust feature set available to work from.

This really wouldn't be extremely difficult to do, implementing the BSSRDF standard would probably be the most difficult part of it with that being relative. The next most difficult part would be porting this to Maya, Mental Ray for Maya, Mac, PC, and Linux.

[rebeldreams]

Emmortal, I apologize if I got hold of the wrong end of the stick of your comments. I understand what you mean now, and I agree fully.

Of course, one could describe this as a special case implementation of BSSRDF, but I imagine we should look into the other aspects of skin shading that have so far been missing from SSS shaders.

[Emmortal1]

It's all good brother, just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page.

I've been using several implementations of the BSSRDF shader (mark davies and Wang Wei's) have although both are good for what they are they each have their limitations. Wei's being the newest he hasn't implemented a lot of the features that Davies has, but I think a cross platform solution would be most benificial to the community as there seems to be a lack of that all around.

As far as putting this shader into a reality, I think it would be great to start an open source project that way we can get as many people working on it as possible and if one person drops off the development then there will always be the possibility of someone else helping out with it because as we all know, our schedules can be very hectic at times.

What are everyones thoughts on this so far?

[rebeldreams]

I suggest firming up our requirements a little more and then maybe assembling a team and heading over to sourceforge. They have a ready-available CVS that we can use, and a bunch of readily-available resources.

Just a suggestion of course. :beer:

As for requirements, I suggest the old standard for Maya projects; start on Win32 and port out.

I think a good-quality BSSRDF shader in native Maya would be good, if it could be done; Mental-Ray's shaders are very flexible, but the do force certain requirements on you; if we prodce a true BSSRDF for Maya native, it should be presentable in MR and (hopefully) any other renderer that can use the Maya renderer API to export out the shader data.

Who wants to break out the renderer SDK with me? :D

[Garma]

Originally posted by rebeldreams
Who wants to break out the renderer SDK with me? :D

I am certainly interested. Too bad I see this thread a little late. I've been playing around with the idea of getting the hang of the sdk for a while now, this is an excellent opportunity.

However i'd like to make a few notes.

DOn't underestimate the size of this project. For it to work you need programmers and artists, you need to plan your time, make deadlines set up cvs or vss etc. etc. Sourceforge is a very good idea, however VSS is integrated in microsoft visual studio, might be easier.

IF it works, it can rock. Maybe you should make a collaborative project from it? dunno if that forum allows programming-stuff though. I think you should move away from maya to enlarge the amount of people that may be joining. plugins are portable and you need all the manpower you can get.

I'd definately try to get Leigh and Stahlberg in, or at least crit the results from time to time. Decide whether you want it to be a plugin or just a shader. Define what kind of skin you are going to make, or else what the parameters are which will be adjustable. Make diagrams of the structure of the result. Look at other shaders and find out what's wrong with them. You need to decide whether you go for purely realism or also take rendertime into account.

good luck, I hope it will work, just don't underestimate it.

[Tocpe]

rebeldream & Garma:
I anticipated that this kind of project might require a larger area for tackling this kind of project. At the beginning of the thread I was wondering about this myself. So I set up a website just for this project, anticipating that we may need it once we began to define what exactly we needed. Take a look and see if you guys think it'll work for us:
http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/

It's an alternative to sourceforge, and we'd be able to set it up however we'd like. What do you guys think?

[Garma]

very good idea to put up a website, I saw it. eventually you might consider extended linking and such. I mean you might link the forum to the cvs and such, I see possibilities. but that's all for later phases.

For now I would create forums regarding the different stadiums of the project. for example, you are in brainstorm phase now, so you need a forum brainstorming. next will be requirements refining, you know, determining the exact goals, so you put up a forum for that. analyse, design and implementation phase same story. it might be a good idea to have teh same strcture in the files section.

that's how I'd do it, just brainstorming here :) good luck again

[Tocpe]

Garma you sound like a good organizer, wanna help?. :) I'll be more than glad to set up the site in any way that will make this project go as smoothly as possible. (at least as much as the CMS will allow me to. :)) I already have a one forum set up to hold discussions of what kind of sections/forums we'll need to help make the site as productive as possible.

[Tocpe]

To try to stimulate this discussion a bit more, I went ahead and added a forum dedicated to discussing the scope of this project:

http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/modules/newbb/

Please stop by and add your 2 cents as to what you think this project should entail.

[Garma]

Originally posted by Tocpe
Garma you sound like a good organizer, wanna help?. :) I'll be more than glad to set up the site in any way that will make this project go as smoothly as possible. (at least as much as the CMS will allow me to. :)) I already have a one forum set up to hold discussions of what kind of sections/forums we'll need to help make the site as productive as possible.

hehe, well that's what they teach me here at the university... I'm organising my ass off here. Actually programming is 3/4 UML design (uml is a way to design software) and 1/4 actual coding. I'm very sorry to say I'm a very busy person at the moment.. 3 projects running, I'd only dissapoint you if I'd join. Too bad since the project sounds fun.

Sorry for the delayed response :)

[thematt]

No,no !!
let's try to keep it here !!so the thread don't die and more people sees it.
I'll add my two sence whener I will be able..but i really don't feel like going somewhere else.
what I think is that we got to much confuse here into what we want !! what we actually all want is a reaistic skin shader..

What's for sure is that I don't beleive we can set up one that work on every condition of lighting (hdri, global etc.) and with maya native renderer or mental ray at the same time.!!!

So for me I would appreciate anybody just go on with what it feel confortable with and do the best it can, then post his scene file or the network with the lighting condition, that way people can pick up on it and improve, give comments and add there thing.

So doesn't matter if it's mental ray, maya or what ever, it will be good for everybody to have the most of it.

that's my point of view.

great idea anyway

cheers

[rebeldreams]

I think that we stand a good chance of making this portable, thematt; if we produce a decent plugin which produces something procedural, then we should be able, as part of that implementation, to get the calls across to Mental Ray; both Maya's native renderer and Mental Ray have good APIs, so we should be able to port it across and make it pluggable for both.

Regarding the point about other lighting conditions, I do agree; the basic calls will produce the right information pretty much regardless, but it depends upon what looks best in certain conditions; for what it's worth, I think under GI and FG it could look mighty dead, simply because of the way that bounced light will end up interacting with the "layers". The only way around this will be to allow the bounces to propagate much more deeply, which will be incredibly expensive computationally. If we are successful in this, only the highest end producers with meaty renderfarms will be able to take full advantage of that!

[jooki]

I am interested in implementing Henrik Jensen's 2001 and 2002 siggraph papers using mental ray.

http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/papers/bssrdf/

http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/papers/fast_bssrdf/

I've read 2002 paper, and now started to read 2001 and some others to understand the math behind it.

Anyone interested in this particular paper?

I'm a beginner in mental ray shading language, and want to use this project as a learning material. It could be quite challenging, but that's what makes it interesting, isn't it?

I'd prefer to do more like a study group ; break down the implementation into small units, discuss theory and implementation of each unit, set the deadline for it, then exchange the code or help each other.

Anyone?

[Tocpe]

Originally posted by thematt
No,no !!
let's try to keep it here !!so the thread don't die and more people sees it.
Yes, you're right more people will see it here on CGTalk. But by keeping it here on CGTalk we may be cripling the potential of the effectiveness of the project. I think a project of this complexity deserves...requires a more appropriate "home" to handle the scope of the project.

Think about this, when BMW engineers work on a new car design, they don't all get in one BIG room and start talking, do they? That's kind of what a thread is, one BIG room. :) Instead they have departments, and in those departments they have specialized teams. There is an organizational design to how everyone interacts and this helps tackling complex project possible. Moving this discussion into a more suitable "home" that can support multiple "departments" will help keep the project organized, feasable, and best of all, less confusing for the participants.

Think about this thread as merely the "memo" to the BMW engineers that they're gonna build a new model car.

Originally posted by thematt
I'll add my two sence whener I will be able..but i really don't feel like going somewhere else.
I'm glad you want to help out! :) We're gonna need all the help we can get to make this project as applicable to as many Maya users as possible. We will update CGTalk users with our progress. We don't want to leave the community out of the loop. And besides, wherever we decide to move this discussion, it will be open to the public. So users of CGTalk can come over and help out on the project anytime they'd like to.

I'm gonna offically put out the question here...Should we move this project?

Originally posted by thematt
what I think is that we got to much confuse here into what we want !! what we actually all want is a reaistic skin shader..
Well, while it may seem confusing at this time, we're still trying to figure out the scope and scale of the project. (you might be experienceing some of the "Big Room" confusion :)) It's true all we want is a realistic human skin shader. But if it were that simple, you'd see a lot more realistic human renders, now wouldn't ya? :) There are lots of different possible solutions to this problem and that's what you're seeing disscussed here. Everyone is just trying to figure out the best possible solution to the problem. :)

Originally posted by thematt
What's for sure is that I don't beleive we can set up one that work on every condition of lighting (hdri, global etc.) and with maya native renderer or mental ray at the same time.!!!
While it may be true that we can't find a sinlge solution, we won't know for sure unless we discuss it and try.

Originally posted by thematt
So for me I would appreciate anybody just go on with what it feel confortable with and do the best it can, then post his scene file or the network with the lighting condition, that way people can pick up on it and improve, give comments and add there thing.

Well, I think that method has been tried in the Human Skin WIPS and Tips Thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63930) here on CGTalk. While it a nice *loooong* read, I don't think it really advances Maya human skin shading all that much. It a great place to gleam a few bits of information here and there, but pretty much it's just a WIP thread. That thread covers all software platforms and most folks are just posting the results of their work, not how they created it...

This project is about finding a tangable realistic human skin shader solution(s) for Maya users.

Besides, what you're talking about will be done in the new area we move this thread to. There we'll have room to discuss and post people's research and progress along with their methods to achieve their results.

Originally posted by thematt
So doesn't matter if it's mental ray, maya or what ever, it will be good for everybody to have the most of it.
Well, actually it does matter what we choose to use to develop the shader. But specifically what we choose, is up for discussion by folks that have a lot more experience in these matters than I have. I'm just trying to get the ball rolling and see to it that this project survives it's "birth". :)

[Tocpe]

Originally posted by jooki
I am interested in implementing Henrik Jensen's 2001 and 2002 siggraph papers using mental ray.

http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/papers/bssrdf/

http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/papers/fast_bssrdf/

I've read 2002 paper, and now started to read 2001 and some others to understand the math behind it.

Anyone interested in this particular paper?


I think it would be great to incorporate this kind of research into the project. Jensen's images are amazing. :)

[Tocpe]

Okay, I think we've debated the point about the feasability of the thread format enough. I don't know about you guys and gals, but I'm ready to try and tackle this project head on.

So if you're reading this thread, and want to help out in developing a realistic human shader for Maya users, please join me at the Maya Shader Discussion Site: http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/

I have set up a discussion forum for outlining the scope of the project and will create any sections of the site that the group deems we may need.

I, or another member of the group will keep this thread updated periodically updated with our progress. But the bulk of the project will take place on the website.

[kryoboy]

i have had decent skin shader results programming them with CgFX but am having hardware rendering issues so it has ended my research in that field. Im thinking more of mental ray now.

[Tocpe]

We now have a head. Please check out the project web site for more details and to download it.

[Tocpe]

Mods, can you please make this thread sticky? Thanks!

[Tocpe]

bump.

[Tocpe]

A new shader has been added that looks promising:See it here (http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id=34&forum=8)

[Tocpe]

Wang Wei has asked for help from artists to test his shader in this thread:

http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40&forum=6

Please stop by and help him out. Here is an example of some of what his shader is capable of:

http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/uploads/photos/27.jpg

[strarup]

Hi Tocpe,

looks cool... :)

btw. Mark Davies from LightEngine3d (http://www.lightengine3d.com) has just released this plug/shader SubScatter (http://www.lightengine3d.com/downloads/plugins/subScatter/subScatter1.html)... :)

regards

Alex

[Blazer]

just of note, the subscatter MR shader used to be free, and the plug-in not. Now the plug-in is free as well, and is the official 1.0 version.

[Tocpe]

cool thanks for the heads-up Alex. :-)

[Russell]

Hello! :)

I've been trying for a week to get both SubScatter for Maya 6 and Wang Wei's bssrdf plug-ins to work and neither are doing what they advertise they will. What settings do you guys have the plug-ins set as? I'm going nuts here and I have a massive headache because I feel stupid, like I have no clue what I'm doing. Any and all help will be appreciated! :) Thanks in advance!

Russell
http://www.russelltopia.com
E-mail: russbo@russelltopia.com

[migusan76]

:) Hello I've recently been programming my own skin shader into Maya's render. And I've just been testing it out. It is an oren nayar based shader with at the moment 58 controllable attributes that control the subsurface scattering and the many specular layers. It has 4 functions contributing to the subsurface scattering all of which no raytracing is needed to work. Its specular layers are comprised of 8 specular calls one including a lafortune specular function with measured skin reflectance data inputed into it, so really thats 10 specular calls. Then the shader is build in a layer fashion mimicing that of real skin, I layered 3 skin layers the subdermal, dermis and epidermis. Right now iam just using simple old Mix to layer it. I did test out the Kubelka-Munk model which looked good but gave kinda unpredictable color results, so i dropped in favor of having better artistic control and predictable color results. Hope you guys like my test render so far, I'll be testing it more and improving it over time. :thumbsup:

-MIGUEL

http://www.digiteck3d.com/forum_images/DT3DskinBall.jpg

[Jozvex]

Wow so a pretty basic shader huh?

Hehe I'm just kidding, it looks great!

[tripNfall]

Cool. How is it looking on a figure? Also, are you going to make this available for download?

[migusan76]

:) Yep just another basic shader nothing fancy :D hey tripNfall so far it looks decent on a character i've been testing it out on some of my characters so i'll post up a test render soon :)

[migusan76]

here is a test render of the shader on a character just a quick test simple directional and spots.

http://www.digiteck3d.com/forum_images/migiDT3Dtest.jpg

[kiaran]

Not bad. The specularity is nice, and the velvety edges are looking accurate. Of course it's hard to tell without finished lighting and textures, but I think this shader will work just fine.

[migusan76]

Hey kiaran, thats awesome to see your helping in the development of the muscleTk what exactly are you doing on it, do you program? or are you testing its functionality? well hey your site looks nice when are you gonna put some examples to see, that skeleton rig on the main page looks very nice :)

[kiaran]

My role in the development of muscleTk was as the lead tester. I haven't touched any of the C++ code. I was busy doing the tutorials and narrating the video lectures for the The Making of Leon tutorial DVD set that comes with muscleTK.

your site looks nice when are you gonna put some examples to see

Thanks. I would love to put up some of my work and maybe a small gallery or something. Unfortunetly, when I'm not working I really don't feel like sitting infront of the computer. Maybe I need a new chair, this one is shit and hurts my back. Yes, I blame the lack of updates on my chair!

[migusan76]

Thats awesome that you were the lead tester, Gives you a head start on everyone else :D
Hey I understand how that is doesn't matter what chair I have also feels like iam turning into the Hunchback of Alias. Plus working to much will drive you into crazy land :twisted:

But on that sphere test up top, I went in and added more lighting and color map with bump vein map to get a better look this is what i came out with so far.

http://www.digiteck3d.com/forum_images/DT3DskinBall2.jpg

[Russell]

Hi all,

I need help figuring something out here and I'm lost. I asked Mark Davies about a problem I was having with hisSubScatter plug-in... I was trying to get that light glowing through skin thing, especially the ears, and he told me to try this when I wasn't getting that effect he said...

"...map the 'Absorption' parameter. this would be a greyscale painted map
that isolates the ears as white. you may need a setRange node to remap the
values to greater than 1...:

Erm... okay, how do you do this? I'm so lost. I kinda prefer using SubScatter over these Maya SSS shaders. I've tried everything to get them to work on my computer and I'm getting squat. Not only that but when I go to apply the shader, I look in my view panel and my character has turned green. What gives? Any and all responses would be appreciated! :) Thanks!

Russell

[MasonDoran]

here are good tuts to learn how to use/tweak the mental ray skin shaders:
http://www.lamrug.org/

to CREATE the proper setup there is a new tut on Highend 3d


and by the way....when applying Mental Ray shaders in Maya....the object will turn Green by default

The setRange node behaves like Photoshop Levels.....it will scale the existing values to the new values you want. Say you have values from 0 to 50 (black to %50 gray) but you need to scale it up to 100 which would be white....or say even more....like 150 or 200 (whiter then white)

I dont know about the plugin you are using....but it sounds like you need to use a greyscale texture map with the ears painted white....and use a setrange node to boost the white values enough for the plugin to render out the subsurface effect

[MasonDoran]

and migusan....when are you going to let us try your skin shader?

[migusan76]

:shrug: 2byts don't know, still testing it out and making sure the shader works and learning mental ray so i can port it there. So in do time :)

[Russell]

Thanks for your reply, 2byts. I kinda understand a little more but I actually needed to know exactly HOW to paint the ears white and HOW to use the greyscale texture map. Where do I find the texture map I need and HOW do I use a setrange node to boost the white values enough for the plugin to render out the subsurface effect? Here's me right now... :shrug: LOL! Help... please... :) Thank you so much for your help from before.. :)

Thanks,
Russell

[thematt]

2byts don't know, still testing it out and making sure the shader works and learning mental ray so i can port it there. So in do time




Your shader are so great, I've already told you, but thanks for the effort you put on making great shader available for the community, you're part of the MAYA community ROCK !!!:buttrock:

Can't wait to test that shader mosly for mental ray..great!! :)

[MasonDoran]

Thanks for your reply, 2byts. I kinda understand a little more but I actually needed to know exactly HOW to paint the ears white and HOW to use the greyscale texture map. Where do I find the texture map I need and HOW do I use a setrange node to boost the white values enough for the plugin to render out the subsurface effect? Here's me right now... :shrug: LOL! Help... please... :) Thank you so much for your help from before.. :)

Thanks,
Russell

to do that you will have to create uvs for the head....and then paint a greyscale map in photoshop the old fashioned way. there are enough tutorials on that anyways.

My impression based on your questions is that your going to deep to quick....understand the fundamental process of creating diffuse maps, reflection maps, specular maps, bump maps and so forth before messing around with subsurface scattering and advanced shader techniques. You will learn faster that way.

[MasonDoran]

migusan....about the shader,

Will we be able to take advatage of the "convert to file texture" or "batch texture bake" commands?

I dont think there is an existing skin shader in Maya that can do this because the SSS is view dependant.

[migusan76]

:D Hey thematt Thanks, Glad you like my Shaders :thumbsup:

Russell i completely agree with 2byts, If your asking questions about what a texture map is and how to use a set range :curious: I really don't think you should be Running if you haven't learned to walk yet. But 2byts is right take it from the basic stuff and work your way up it is much easier that way.

:hmm: Hmmmmm Well I just went into maya and did a quick test with my other Maya shaders and they "convert to file texture" just fine. Only thing is that it seems they are all View Dependent mainly cause they calculate on view. For example the BRDF SCatter shader does the Single Scatter shader does even the Velvet does. But what iam guess if that once you set up your entire scene and fixed your lighting and camera and nothing will move, if you can figure out a way to texture Bake an animation over time then, Yea it will work like a charm. But as for the skin shader it should convert also fine infact you can ipr the shader like any other since my SSS effects happen in real-time with no raytracing so your not left to guess what parameteres to input and then hope it turns out right you can just adjust in the ipr.

[Russell]

After a lot of hard work, I finally have this thing licked. I want to show you what I did last night. I'm quite proud of the results. It just kinda happened, really. One part DirtMap, one part soft ray traced shadows and two parts SubScater gave me these results. As in the words of Commander Quincy Taggart... "Never give up! Never surrender!" G'day! :)

Russell

[migusan76]

:) Hey just wanted to let you guys know that I put out my skin for Maya to download. here is the link http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2190798#post2190798 its for the maya software render and goes from Maya 4.0 to 6.0 sorry to those 6.5 users

[MasonDoran]

wicked!

i will be waiting for the day it gets compiled to 6.5

cheers.

[migusan76]

:sad: I hope i get it compile soon for 6.5 as I've had some people besides your self ask for 6.5

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