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proudclod
02-28-2004, 07:32 PM
Hi all, this is your teenage friend again :) I'm doing a revamp of the main character of my favorite game... I started about 2 hours ago, and i think it's semi-decent compared to everything else i posted up here. Sorry for the really bad image quality... Some of the known issues are the smoothing groups screwed up in some places, and the belt is hard to see because of the smoothing groups, other wise, crit away, give me the hardest ones you got!
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/485379/1!cloudmodel.jpg

NeoNautica
02-28-2004, 07:43 PM
There is no image... not even a red X...

proudclod
02-28-2004, 09:28 PM
update
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/485379/cloudd.jpg

My aim is to take the character cloud, and get rid of the goofy porportions, and make him look semi realistic... I have a question... I have a wacom tablet, should i use it to paint game textures?

Matt
02-28-2004, 09:36 PM
ACCESS DENIED.

proudclod
02-28-2004, 09:37 PM
Hi! Trying really hard to make it work... wait a second let me try again

proudclod
02-28-2004, 09:45 PM
here goes nothing
http://images5.fotki.com/v61/photos/2/203253/741349/cloudd-vi.jpg

edit: WOOHOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol.... Critique as hard as you could, but don't flame, i really need to improve...

MASTERSHOKHAN
02-29-2004, 12:00 AM
OK, my question is are you working from a model sheet?
If the answer is yes then that could help us tell you how to improve. But to me he just looks kinda boxy. Pulling waist verts inward can help the torso not look so boxy. The torso is barrel shaped. Maybe cut a straight line down the arm and pull the new verts outward some. And yes paint the texture with the tablet ( use dodge and burn a lot in photoshop )

JaMo
02-29-2004, 02:02 AM
id say round him out more. how many poly's you pumping into this?

proudclod
02-29-2004, 04:16 AM
Hi all! I am grateful for every single critique given, thanks guys! his body w/hands is 892 tri's, but i can pump another 3000 into him :) I'm making him for an hl2 mod, and he is my first attempt at a midpoly model. Ever since i got 3dsmax i either did hi-poly or extremely low poly for wc3, so keep the crits coming, and tell me how i should spend my next few polys :)

here's a wire
http://free.one.picturehost.co.uk/cloudddd.jpg

seantree
02-29-2004, 09:11 PM
i'd say if you are going for a realistic looking Cloud you should grab some ref from the upcoming Advent Children movie. He no longet has his semi Super Deformed proprotions. Keep at it, Cloud is my favorite FF character.

proudclod
02-29-2004, 09:22 PM
heh, same here :) In ac, he does look allot more realistic, but he's as skinny as a toothpick! What i am going to do though, is to base the face off of the ac one :) Thanks allot for the crit's everyone, but please keep them coming.... :) i'll post an update in 5 mins after i've put a semi-completed head on this guy's shoulders

edit: Doing the nose now, can someone please tell me how i should go about doing that? extruding the nose, or cutting and pulling out verts?

Beastie
03-02-2004, 03:27 AM
Theres going to be a tough crowd on this one boy, lol. With the release of advent children the movie and cloud being the most mainstream FF character of all time youll get some very opinionated critiques. Just thought Id warn ya ahead of time and I hope the crits push you forward istead of discouraging you. Myself, I hope to see more soon and wish you the best of luck.

EternaSky
03-02-2004, 05:19 AM
t-pose?

proudclod
03-02-2004, 10:38 PM
this is very true, there will be very opinionated critiques, but as long as they are "critiques", i'll take them any day! You see, i've had my work been kicked and spit on, and most of the time i don't take it too personally, after all, they are helping me become a better modeler... But i see where you are getting at. Because i am blending both styles, each person will have a very different critique from everyone else, but what people have to understand, is i'm making "my own" style, and if they still can't understand it, i'll just say it's a totally different character who has the same hairdue as cloud, that is, if it will help me get general critiques

AdamAtomic
03-03-2004, 03:35 AM
my best advice for you would be to become more comfortable with modeling, sculpture, and 3d art before you begin venturing off into your own "style." This was a hard learned lesson for me, but I've heard the same thing from a lot of other people. Master the skills, then stylize them to suit your personality and artistic taste.

Right now the model looks awful. Crack out some anatomy books (I recommend Hogarth's Dynamic Anatomy, he even breaks the body down into larger volumes! so handy!) and get a lot of references for Cloud. Pretty much everything in your model so far ignores Cloud's character design from any source (game, art, or movie). Study the character and his form and try as hard as you can to replicate it in your model.

I am going to assume (because I know I didn't have it when I was 15) that you're using an illegal copy of studio max - I'd recommend using gmax (which is pretty damn powerful!) or one of the free alternatives, Blender or Wings3D. Honestly, Wings3D is a lot more character-modeling friendly anyways!

I really don't mean to hammer on you, I'm sorry. The most important thing for you right now is to not worry about having your own style yet - that will come naturally in its own time. Worry about mastering the tools, the methods, and the theories. It would be of greater benefit to you to simply try and recreate Cloud's model from FF7 or try to make a model that more closely represents his AC depiction. Throwing anything else into the mix right now will only make it harder for you to advance. Now, I know that its impossible to do that (believe me I 've been there!) but the more you try to just put your nose to the wheel and LEARN the faster you will be able to master the skills you need to develop your own style. For a 15-yr old you are showing a LOT of promise - keep at it! You definitely have the right attitude, you just need to keep practicing. Best of luck!

DaemonMagus
03-03-2004, 10:26 PM
Wouldn't you be 16 if you had that birthday...? Anyways, I'm 14, and just started modeling recently, and I think you need some male anatomy reference sheets. The Loomis ones will do fine, you don't need to dish out some cash to see the fancy little 3d.sk ones. Unless you've been doing figure drawing for a while, I think that is essential, and another thing that is helpful are anatomy drawings showing muscle placement. It helps a lot when you get to modeling biceps/triceps/pectorals/whatever.

About the style thing, I think it isn't bad, because as far as I understand, you mean that you are taking aspects of the different cloud's and melding them. I think concepting skills wouldn't hurt if that's what your planning. Just whatever your doing, make sure you don't settle for below par, if it doesn't look like Cloud don't just pass it off as being some dude with the same hair style, fix it! You only succeed if you try to push the boundaries (unless your Janet Jackson)

Finally about software, if you are using a pirated 3ds Max, WHY!? Wings is so much easier to get and learn how to use. If you bought the actual one, WHY?! It's better to get a hang of the basics before you shell out some cash for something you may lose interest in. I don't really like GMax because it has all this extra crap that I don't need, and is missing stuff I want. I need to be able to export to different formats, and I need to render. I don't need to bend or twist or any of that other stuff. If I want that I'll do it edgeloop by edgeloop, vert by vert, I like control.

Okay, enough ranting, key points: Get Refs & Keep Modelling

JaMo
03-04-2004, 03:57 AM
get the maya ple its a professional package for free. the only draw back is watermark on the renders but its worth it to learn.

proudclod
03-07-2004, 05:14 PM
Just to clear one thing up... I'm 13 years old, turned 13 this december.... Second.... Thank you so much for all of your critiques! No i did not get it illegaly, nor did i buy it... my uncle, who used to do graphic design before, gave me his copy.... and now i use it.... Before, i used to use milkshape, it was too easy, and it just plain sucked.... So then i got gmax, and got really intersted in it... i started loving it, and my uncle gave me 3dsmax5... so... i'll just continue using this. Also, i don't know what makes my model look so horrible, can you please tell me what part of the anatomy makes the model specifically horrible? I'll also "re-phrase" myself, i said something wrong... I'm not trying to create my own style of cloud, i'm just trying to make him more realistic... I'm almost done skinning the body and will have a pic up by tonight....

proudclod
03-07-2004, 05:28 PM
awww, what the hell, i'll post it up now, so you guys can crit on it!

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/18104/%21%21%21%21%21%2111cloud.jpg

And in case you are wondering... No i did not get photoshop illegaly, and now, i did not buy it! My dad gives photoshop lessons, and he got me a free copy :D (that's just for all of you law freaks:D)

Ahhh... Again the hell with it, i just figured out i have a bad sence of replication... so i'll just make this a playable character in a mod/game im making... :D

DaemonMagus
03-07-2004, 07:35 PM
Tsk.. you put the wrong birthday in your profile, shame on you (or I accidentally clicked on someone else's). The textures look alright, but the model is too blocky and is anatomically incorrect. Put some image planes and check to see what's off using that, it's a lot easier than having me explain.. The head is too small, the shoulders are too broad, the chest/stomach is too flat, the forearms/biceps don't have much definition...

baaah888
03-07-2004, 08:50 PM
ok some basic pointers.

your 13 and just started modelling, first things first, slow down. Your jumping in the deepend by modelling a character straight away. you have a long way to go but your young and so you've got a head start on alot modellers, I didnt touch a 3d package till i was 19 (21 now)

I started in exactly the same way as you, I thought i know i'll make a quake 3 character, I did and lets just say it didnt look very good. you sound like me "why doesnt it look like what i imagine in my head"

Well modelling is like anything else to do with art, only 0.0001% of people can pick up a paintbrush for the first time and paint like picasso, the rest of us have to learn, so what i sugest you do is look for good tutorials, have you tried any tutorials?

Since you have a full legal copy of max, you should have all the discreet help and tutorial files, I learned most of the techniques and modeling skills from these help files and tutorials. A fantastic starting point for a begginner. other than that im sure you'll be able to find hundreds of tutorials on line. do some tutorials and then come back to cloud,

The Cloud model itself.

I think the reason it looks wrong at the moment is because of the preportions and the pose your using for the standard pose. I would always model the arms out to your characters sides this is a natural position for most models mainly to help with rigging. currently with those shoulders if he lifts his arms his shoulders will deform massively.

The Torso is generally too big for cloud who had a very slim build, and is also very square, when a person is generally curvy.
The face is a very hard part of any model just looks too defined in areas such as the cheeks, and the eyes are the wrong shape. Also the head is either to small for the body or vise versa.
The arms are very chunky at the top and taper to almost a point with the hands.

ok im outta time here someone need the net :\

Well i hope that helps you out a tad, dont get discouraged you have plenty of time to learn 3dsmax,

little final advice dont rush your models take your time, as you improve the speed will come anyways as you'll get used to doing it. so something that takes you 2 hours would be much better had you spent 5 or even 10 hours on it in the first place.

good luck improving the model, hope to see some updates soon

proudclod
03-08-2004, 12:23 AM
wow... thank you so much guys! very uselful, gonna get to every crit rite away!

NewBeyondReason
03-08-2004, 07:12 AM
Hey Clod, its me, Andy from wc3c!

If Im gunna be completely honest about this model, id say it sucks, its out of proportion and boxy, its alright I guess, but, not very realistic, gj anyhoo

peace ez,

NBR

proudclod
03-09-2004, 01:57 AM
lol andy... this is the first time yo usay one of my models suck!! lol.... anyways, it's not boxy at all (if you want boxy, look at chickensoup) It is a little on the low poly side, but it is after all... low poly! It's not like i used 8000 polys on this... i only used 1000 polys on the body, and 900 on the face...

amola2k
03-20-2004, 06:44 PM
woo cloud
that brings back alot of good memories !

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