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FClub_TDurden
02-27-2004, 05:33 PM
Well i guess since Roy has a web page to SaveDisney...now there is one for eisner....and check out what they had to say about Disney animation and Pixar....

"And if recent years have brought less profitable, less well received feature animation from Disney why isnít Roy Disney pointing the finger at himself? Roy Disney was in charge of Feature Animation right up until the day he left. How much of a money pit was Fantasia 2000?"

"Sure Pixar is Hollywood's darling right now. Was Finding Nemo a good film? Sure. Did it have much competition from other family films at the Box Office? Not much. Finding Nemo would have done well anytime anywhere, but its incredible success was more of being the right movie at the right time. Will Pixarís next movie be as successful? Odds are not. It will make good money but in the years ahead Pixar will face more and more competition as more Studios sign on to make Computer Animated Features. And will Pixar films be perceived the same way when the Disney name no longer appears in front of it?
Sure Steve Jobs wants a bigger peace of the pie, and he would have got it. But heís the one who walked and heís the one who felt like he should have been able to go back in time and undo the previous deal, to the detriment of Disney; Michael Eisner didnít sour these negotiations, it was Steve Jobs temper tantrum."

http://www.savemichaeleisner.com/

JulianHo
02-27-2004, 06:22 PM
Why?! :eek:

Well, at least the site is badly designed and didn't have much content.

Borjis
02-27-2004, 07:30 PM
Yeah, forget Eisner. He should Retire already.

I'm tired of him.

CGLearner
02-27-2004, 07:56 PM
How many people here think that Pixar is going to do not nearly a well with Disney's name in front of it?

Also, How many of you in CGTalk would go to a Pixar film without the Disney name?

pearson
02-27-2004, 08:46 PM
I really wonder how the general public will view the whole thing. I mean to us Pixar is a huge name brand. But what will happen when Toy Story 3 comes out and it says "From the company that brought you Toy Story 1 and 2 comes a NEW adventure for woody and Buzz". And Pixar will have the same label on its releases...the public will be confused. Plus the general public follow Disney (animation) blindly, "if it's Disney it must be awesome".

It just makes me so sick that Jobs sold the rights to the characters and everything! Now Disney can ruin Pixar's reputation by releasing crap sequels...

BiTMAP
02-27-2004, 09:15 PM
actualy, Jobs didn't sell the rights, he simply was not able to keep them.

moovieboy
02-27-2004, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by pearson
...Now Disney can ruin Pixar's reputation by releasing crap sequels...

I think the public is also getting used to Disney making crap sequels period. So, perhaps it will look more like "same old, same old Disney, milking an old franshise again" while Pixar is exploding onto the scene with NEW characters and material :D

What's with the idiotic "right time?" reasoning for Nemo's success?!? First, some think it insane to release anything up against the summer blockbuster onslaught, but Nemo had major legs... But more than that, I love how it has nothing to do with story or talent... It's all about WHEN it was released!

So, I guess Treasure Planet and Brother Bear and Teacher's Pet were all victims of... BAD TIMING! Sheesh... :D

-Tom

pearson
02-27-2004, 09:26 PM
Bitmap - Semantics, my friend. :shrug:

When Jobs struck the deal, he "exchanged" certain things for certain other things. One of those things was the IP rights...

How hard up was he anyway? Look at Lucas to see just how important owning that stuff is. (not that I don't wish someone else had a little creative control of SW at this point lol)

Moovieboy - Look closer. It reflects Eisner's belief that Pixar's whole success (and also Disney's failures) is based on the fact that the movies are CG. Funny how quickly he's forgotten about Dinosaur and the Secret Lab... That was only 2 years ago!

Nicodemus
02-27-2004, 09:33 PM
I think the fact that Disney helped Pixar become a household name and it's own brand is being overlooked. It will be weird seeing a Pixar film without the Disney named attached but honestly.....I have had relatives and friends who are not at all into cg as a job come to me to ask about this whole parting of the ways.

The viewing public is not a unsophisticated as we think. They recognize the two as different companies and alot of them regard Pixar movies as just that......Pixar movies with Disney Marketing. Between that and the press that the whole split has gotten and continues to get. I really think the deciding factor is going to be who they hook up with to distribute their new films and if they maintain the quality of their films.

Iron Giant was an excellent film with a great story but Warner Brothers dropped the ball completely when it came to marketing so it did not make much in the theatre. Those same relatives and friends I mentioned before have asked on different occasions why it was never in theatres?!?!?!?!? The thing is....it was but the general public did not know it so they did not see it and alo of people missed out till it was available for rent.

~L~

moovieboy
02-27-2004, 09:33 PM
Pearson: Yeah, I wasn't trying to discount that. Just saying this is now excuse #567: It was in the timing. Excuse #403 was "It was 2D"... I think we also have text messaging, pirating and downloading... just about everything except story :D

-Tom

SMH
02-27-2004, 10:16 PM
Pearson I suggest you read "The 2nd coming of steve jobs" or buy it from audible. I actually suggest it to anyone who's interested in Pixar's history. The book's 3rd chapter is entirely dedicated to the animation studio.

According to the book, Jeffrey Katzenberg held the upper hand on the negotiation table. He got Disney the deal for 15 million dollars "less than he would (usually) spend". He also told Jobs to either forget about video rights, or leave the table at once. Steve who was new to the business...accepted, but held on to two things: a three movie deal, and the rights to Pixar's technology.

Steve ultimately had few options, he badly needed the deal to save Pixar. Besides no one at the time imagined the amazing success of the movies to come.

-SMH

Harv
03-01-2004, 06:21 PM
Why Pixar's films are more "Disney" than Disney's:

http://www.savedisney.com/vision/editorials/mj022604.1.asp

Tom N.
03-02-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Nicodemus
I think the fact that Disney helped Pixar become a household name and it's own brand is being overlooked. It will be weird seeing a Pixar film without the Disney named attached

~L~

Pixar isn't a household name because of Disney, its because they have an incredible ability to pump out amazing films for a wide audience. I honestly didn't even realize that Disney was a part of Toy Story and Bugs Life until I bought bugs life and saw their name on the cover. I know, I must sound blind or something because of all the Disney crap before the movies but I just never thought "ooh Disney did this" when it came to any Pixar films. I look forward to seeing a different name in front of Pixar films.

-Tom N.

psyop63b
03-02-2004, 08:38 PM
I certainly don't want to see Disney in the hands of a cable giant like Comcast. They already have a stranglehold on one industry. Now that I think of it, I'm paying for the tv, so why do I have to sit through all these commercials? Screw it, I'm getting a Tivo.

beaker
03-03-2004, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by pearson
Bitmap - Semantics, my friend. :shrug:

When Jobs struck the deal, he "exchanged" certain things for certain other things. One of those things was the IP rights...

How hard up was he anyway? Look at Lucas to see just how important owning that stuff is. (not that I don't wish someone else had a little creative control of SW at this point lol)

Pixar was a nobody when they were working on Toy Story. In order to get a deal for distributing a totally alien idea (cg animated movie), you have to sacrifice somethings. In the early 90's pixar wasn't making any money, they made their own computers that didn't sell and Prman software was still very new. Also NeXT boxes weren't exactly walking off the shelves. Not sure how much of NeXT money was out of Jobs' actual pocket. Ross Perot invested billions in NeXT that was going into a product that shipped 4 years late. I doubt that Jobs was in a position of power. More like he was at Disney's mercy.

metroeast
03-03-2004, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by pearson
Bitmap - Semantics, my friend. :shrug:

When Jobs struck the deal, he "exchanged" certain things for certain other things. One of those things was the IP rights...

How hard up was he anyway? Look at Lucas to see just how important owning that stuff is. (not that I don't wish someone else had a little creative control of SW at this point lol)

Moovieboy - Look closer. It reflects Eisner's belief that Pixar's whole success (and also Disney's failures) is based on the fact that the movies are CG. Funny how quickly he's forgotten about Dinosaur and the Secret Lab... That was only 2 years ago!

Disney has built up the Pixar brand. I don't think people will be turned off if they don't see Disney associated with it. I think the one thing Pixar is going to lose is themarketing of the film. Disney has a lot of channels they use to promote (ABC, Disney Channel, Theme Parks, etc...) I think Pixar knows this. I think it is something they are already planning. If they do partner with another studio, then some of these responsibilties would most likely be shared.

metroeast
03-03-2004, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Nicodemus
I think the fact that Disney helped Pixar become a household name and it's own brand is being overlooked. It will be weird seeing a Pixar film without the Disney named attached but honestly.....I have had relatives and friends who are not at all into cg as a job come to me to ask about this whole parting of the ways.

The viewing public is not a unsophisticated as we think. They recognize the two as different companies and alot of them regard Pixar movies as just that......Pixar movies with Disney Marketing. Between that and the press that the whole split has gotten and continues to get. I really think the deciding factor is going to be who they hook up with to distribute their new films and if they maintain the quality of their films.

Iron Giant was an excellent film with a great story but Warner Brothers dropped the ball completely when it came to marketing so it did not make much in the theatre. Those same relatives and friends I mentioned before have asked on different occasions why it was never in theatres?!?!?!?!? The thing is....it was but the general public did not know it so they did not see it and alo of people missed out till it was available for rent.

~L~

Disney has built up the Pixar brand. I don't think people will be turned off if they don't see Disney associated with it. I think the one thing Pixar is going to lose is themarketing of the film. Disney has a lot of channels they use to promote (ABC, Disney Channel, Theme Parks, etc...) I think Pixar knows this. I think it is something they are already planning. If they do partner with another studio, then some of these responsibilties would most likely be shared.

trevanian
03-03-2004, 05:16 PM
SAVE Eisner? He and Katz should have been crucified a quarter-century ago at Paramount over the mismanagement of the first TREK movie. I seriously have never understood how these guys kept (and INCREASED) their viability in the industry after that, except maybe that they could tred water while standing on various other bodies being sacrificed.

derelict
03-04-2004, 04:07 AM
Well, it is a milking industry. U milk me now, i milk you tomorrow. The point is, pixar wanna be a big girl now and she wanna play momma too. So, lets see how it goes.

I am sure they will be a major player in years to come (I cant help but smell Image comics in this scenario). Hope they dont grow an extra ego while doing it. I know steve job will, cant really say bout the others tho

nvvm
03-05-2004, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by CGLearner
How many people here think that Pixar is going to do not nearly a well with Disney's name in front of it?

Also, How many of you in CGTalk would go to a Pixar film without the Disney name? me, as of the moment Roy Disney left the company I felt it truly lost sight of Walt Disney's vision. I support pixar exclusively now.

mankor
03-07-2004, 07:25 AM
i think Warner bros just got themselves a new 3d animation studio(Pixar).I mean really who is Disneys nearest competitor..they HAD disneyland and disney's stores to promote the pixar brand ..so my guess is that pixar jumps onto warners ship..they have Six Flags and the WB stores and the wb network(if you can call it a network) i can totaly see it happening..

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