skale a rigged character

[Houkah]

haven't done it in awhile but if i remember you group everything together and scale the group.

[GrafOrlok]

Unfortunately they didn't build FR to be scalable once you've created the rig.

/Staffan

[mimo8]

so is there a workarround
I never worked with referenced files - does that help?

or is the only solution to scale the scene arround?

[lazzhar]

I think grouping the skeleton and the geometry under a locator would be your bet. Try it and let me know if it works.

[WhiteRabbitObj]

Group the skeleton. Then scale the group, that's it. Don't put the geometry in the same group because it will double transform. But when you put a node into a new group, you're putting it into a new worldspace. Putting the entire skeleton into a new worldspace and then scaling that worldspace down means that the skeleton itself isn't actually smaller, it's just existing proportionally to a smaller worldspace. Referencing doesn't matter. I just finished with a film in which I referenced my main character into numerous different sets which were all built to different scale and I simply grabbed the skeleton group node and scaled it appropriately. When referencing my file looked like this:

mainGroup ----- (top node, serves to keep all the referenced files together for organizational purposes in the new scene)
|
|
----skeletonGroup ------ (contains the skeleton and all associated curves and control objects)
|
|
----geometry group ------ (contains all the geometry. Doesn't get scaled since it is influenced by the skeleton).

[mimo8]

as far as my tests worked now it seems to be ok when I put the rig into a new group, but just as long as I scale it DOWN - strange but when I scale it up it messes ...

also I have a problem with my already driven keys / clusters

they don´t follow the scaling right - if I now put them into the new group for scaling or leave them out with the geometry

also putting both geometry and rig is not working

whats bad for my animation is that my character has a "normal" scale and the scenes I am working in have a hughe scale - so big that the camera doesn´t´display them anymore when I bring them in relation to the character - so I hoped beeing able to scale him down

thnx for help

[WhiteRabbitObj]

That camera not displaying stuff problem sounds like a simple clipping plane problem. The default is that you can see 1000 units out. Go to your camera attributes and change the clipping plane. If I ever have this problem I just up it to 5000 and don't have any more problems. Likely as not, upping the clipping plane is not going to slow you down.

[dmcgrath]

Originally posted by mimo8
as far as my tests worked now it seems to be ok when I put the rig into a new group, but just as long as I scale it DOWN - strange but when I scale it up it messes ...

also I have a problem with my already driven keys / clusters

they don´t follow the scaling right - if I now put them into the new group for scaling or leave them out with the geometry

also putting both geometry and rig is not working

whats bad for my animation is that my character has a "normal" scale and the scenes I am working in have a hughe scale - so big that the camera doesn´t´display them anymore when I bring them in relation to the character - so I hoped beeing able to scale him down

thnx for help


Start off on Page 10 of my Rigging Tutorial (check signature).
My old teacher taught us this, and this type of hierarchy is really the most workable, and flexible for importing/exporting, scaling etc.

This should work with Final Rig okay.

[GrafOrlok]

As I said; Final Rig wasn't built so that you can scale it. Check out their forum at http://www.radiantsquare.com, this thread (http://www.radiantsquare.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35&).

On an ordinary rig you just group all rig stuff, leaving out the geometry, and then scale the group.
But NOT in Final Rig.

As far as I know the only workaround is to re-arrange stuff in the rig. Maybe there are a bunch of clusters , or IKspline curves, or similar in the wrong place, or something. I have worked a lot with Final Rig, but I know the importance of keeping the scale correct, so I haven't dealt with this.

/Staffan

[dwalden74]

Final Rig wasn't built so that you can scale it

Any rig that has built in stretchiness (like my own dwRiggingTools (http://www.david-walden.com) for example - and many of the other auto-rigging scripts out there) will not be scaleable, unless it has some serious scale controls built in as well (and it probably doesn´t). The reason is, with stretchy joints you´re measuring worldspace distances and feeding that into the joints´ trans value: when you scale a hierarchy, the joints translate attrs remain the *same*, even though their worldspace lengths actually change. Here´s where the screwup happens.

I suppose it would be possible to add a multiplying factor in there somewhere that considers some node´s scale attrs, although it would be quite messy (and what would happen if the user scaled the character only along one axis?).

Also, I could imagine that any rig with splineIK would be problematic to scale.

Of course, if the rig has no stretchiness and no splineIK, then scaling shouldn´t be a big deal if the hierarchy is built correctly.

:beer:

[GrafOrlok]

There you have it!
Thanks for straightening things out.

/Staffan

[mimo8]

although I decided to leave the character unscaled to avoid further trouble I am very greatfull to all your replies - put some light on the mistical task of rig-skaling

I am also helped a lot by white rabbits info how to get rid of camera clipping - u know how it is - sometimes you use a program with all its details but some basics you never found out :)

hope to be able to show some animation tests of the not skaled charcter

muchas gracias
bisou, bisou
vielen dank
hichi nachi noi
:thumbsup:

[lazzhar]

@@Group the skeleton. Then scale the group, that's it. Don't put the geometry in the same group because it will double transform

Yes I was wrong, I've always used a locator then parented the skeleton and ik handles to it, but there is a long time i didnt any rigging I thought I was parenting the geometry to the locator too.

[GrafOrlok]

Lazzhar:
Parenting the rig to a locator is essentially the same as grouping it. You can of course use a circle or a NURBS curve shaped as arrows or whatever. The main thing is that you group the whole rig minus geo to a top node.
And for all you who don't have the time to read the whole thread through; this does not apply to Final rig or any other rig with stretchy spine.:p
/Staffan

[Vushvush]

I'm reviving this bad boy, because, well, damn it, I need suggestions!

I'm guilty of building my first rig with splineIK/stretchy back, and of course, am getting the double transforms on the back. If ANYONE has any ideas how to solve this, it would be super nice to be able to actually use this rig in production where it's essential to scale the whole character.

Please help! :P

[Vushvush]

Issue solved... Is this still an issue for anybody else or am I just why behind? :)

[GrafOrlok]

Did you solve the issue with a scaled stretchy-back? In that case I think many would be interested.
Let's hear it!

/Staffan

[Vushvush]

oh.. hehe. I thought it may have been a non issue by now cause it is very simple.

I'm personally using the stretchy SplineIK back where the joints are scaled by the difference in arclength of the spline curve.

All I did was put another multiply/divide node between the multiply/divide node and the joints, that takes the result of the first multiply divide node, and then divide's that result again, by the scale of the "MasterRootOverCharacterRigControlGroupNode" :P

So basically it readjusts the curve to fit into the new world space so to speak. This would work on any stretchy element I suppose, from arms to legs to whatever.

[dwalden74]

I´ll try and see if I can build an automatic tool like this into dwRiggingTools. I should have some time later this coming week to make some updates.

:beer:
David

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.