Max for Photo-realism

[Oogst]

I think this is mainly due simply to the enormous amount of people using MAX compared to any other program. C4D really is good at realistic stills as well.

Another reason is the abundancy of excellent renderers for MAX. V-ray, Brazil, Mental-ray, finalRender, all are exellent at doing photo-realism. I do not know whether any C4D-renderer supports so many features as these, it might partially be due to that.

[ThirdEye]

C4D doesn't support any third party renderer. The standard renderer shares the GI code with finalRender, which is really cool. The raytracer is really good, and ultra fast too, and so is the SSS shader. There are just a few things you'd miss in C4D: special cameras like the architectural camera (which you can reproduce with Xpresso within C4D anyway), IES lights (which you can find in Brazil), micro poly displacement, raytraced motion blur and rendering of stills across a network. Being a C4D user i have to say i don't miss anything, i wouldn't replace C4D's renderer with any other one, except Mental Ray maybe, which is now included into Max 6. Up to you, try both the programs, decide which one suits you best and learn it. I hope it helps. :)

[Oogst]

Yet I do not think that any of the options you mention really are that great that they should make anyone switch from C4D to MAX. Being a MAX-user I do not know the pros and cons of C4D, but the renders I have seen of it are good enough to be a good package, I think.

[LuKa]

Heh MentalRay may only sounds good, but compared to Vray or FinalRender (maybe even Brazil) it's slow as hell (I'm talking about GI). Not to mention, that I haven't seen any beliveable interior render made with MentalRay. Also material creation for MentalRay is so confusing as hell.

[zomboxy]

I have been a commercial studio still photogtrapher for more than 20 years. I have been incorporating some 3d images into my portfolio with the hopes of doing more 3d.
I have seen lots of very good renders with all programs. I started with Maya and switched to Max prior to the addition of Mental Ray for Maya. I just bought Max6.
The one renderer, that over the 6 years that I have been (slowly) learning 3d, that consistently impressed me is Mental Ray. The realism is spectacular. However having said this there are many people working with many programs. Renderers are one thing, lighting is another. Work on lighting. Learn how light works on materials and you'll always get a good render if you work with one of the several really good programs out there light your scene and pick the right materials you'll be fine. Switching programs is a very tough thing to do. Not to mention expensive. Expensive time wise, money is secondary. No one program has it all. Learn the one that makes the most sense to you and keep learning it. Just my 2 cents.

Mark

www.marksnyder.ca

[rbf229]

Thanks for the quick responses. Not ready to jump ship by any stretch of the imagination considering Max would be pushing the limits of my budget somewhat. Just needed some insight.
IES lights, micro poly displacement and ray traced motion blur? I'm not familar with those terms. Are these important factors for creating life like stills. I'm still relatively new to this.
Thanks
Rob

[ToddD]

Heh MentalRay may only sounds good, but compared to Vray or FinalRender (maybe even Brazil) it's slow as hell (I'm talking about GI). Not to mention, that I haven't seen any beliveable interior render made with MentalRay. Also material creation for MentalRay is so confusing as hell.

Totally disagree on all points except for the GI which I haven't really tested. :hmm: Mental ray has been used by Maya and XSI users for some time now, some of the best renders I have seen here have been produced by MR. Max users will be producing amazing renders with MR in no time, it is still a relativley new thing to us. Material creation, is as straight forward as any of the others once you have read a little, and experimented, just because MR is not a simple push button renderer does not mean that it only "sounds good":rolleyes:

BTW there is a thread on material creation in the resources section of this forum, demistifies the process a bit.

rbf229, c4d should suit you just fine, if you have exceeded its limits then upgrade.... although I doubt there is anything you couldn't achieve if you put time and effort into it- with the exception of possibly PR animation.

[rbf229]

Agreed. Not giving up on Cinema just wondering what it takes to create impressive still art. I'll defiantly check out the material creation thread you mentioned.

I have been working with my lighting / material techniques, with mixed results. There seem to be a lot of books on the subject (and 3d art in general) for Max, Lightwave and Maya. Not so much for Cinema. However, I was wondering, are there any books/tutorials (not necessarily software specific) that can help me with lighting, materials, post effects, etc. or any other useful techniques for creating realism?
Rob

[ToddD]

Well for lighting there are some basic tutorials also there is a light oriented thread on Maxforums, that might be of help. I warn you, they are a tough crowd over there!:eek: Here are some links for lighting:

http://grayson.cgworks.com/tutorials/lighting/index.html

http://www.maxforums.org/forum/forum.asp?t=201265&r=96

[zomboxy]

The MR docs and tuts are slim. I could really use some more intensive instruction. I'm sure that in time there will be a lot of resources available. I'll check out the post on this site. I am looking forward to learning and seeing what we all do with MR.

Zom

[ThirdEye]

I think i have to throw here my 2 euro cents once again:

C4D's renderer is a lot superior to Max's default scanliner, i think this is a fact (for speed, ease of use, GI quality, caustics, SSS, raytracing, shadows and lights). While the default scanliner leaves a lot to be desired, Max fills the gap with its several third party renderers (vray, finalRender, Brazil, Mental Ray, Prman). While Vray, finalRender and Brazil have more or less the same capabilities, Mental Ray and Prman are one step ahead. Let's not consider Prman here since it's a completely different animal and i wouldn't even consider using it for stills, it'd be like going shopping with a 4 ton truck imho. Mental Ray offers some more options when compared to finalRender, Vray, Brazil and all the other new kids on the block. It's ultrafast with heavy poly counts, its raytracing capabilities are awesome and it's one of the few renderers out there offering both Global Illumination (view dependant, called final gathering) and Radiosity (lights dependant, called GI), which can be even combined. It's also one of the few renderers that has been heavily tested in production (go to www.mentaimages.com if you wanna read a list of what Mental Ray has been used in: The Hulk, Fight Club...) so it should be bullet proof for heavy works. It offers good raytraced motion blur and good displacement capabilities, it allows people to code their own shaders too. This said I have to say you don't need all this power for standard photorealistic images, C4D, finalRender, Vray and Brazil are good enough for sure. Check these websites if you wanna see some examples of what they can do, try the demos, wherever possible, and decide for yourself, good luck:

http://www.the3ddesigner.de/cgi-bin/c4ddesign/lacreme.pl?date
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/gallery_index.php
http://www.finalrender.com/products/gallery.asp?UD=10-7888-35-788&PID=36
www.vrayrender.com/gallery

[rbf229]

Good information, thanks.
Rob

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