splineG's tutorial: curves do not cross correctly

[SplineGod]

You should check to see that the points where your splines intersect are welded. You should also check to make sure you have the correct number of splines selected when you create a patch. Based on what I can see you should have 3 splines selected. :)

[omar C]

hey its you:eek: :applause:

ok it worked this time ....:buttrock: ...i did not welded the point wright there

http://users.pandora.be/productions_image/Naamloos-5.jpg

i'll try and finnish this one tmrw.

thnks for the help and ofcourse for the tuts


cheers

[SplineGod]

Hey Omar!
Looks good. Use less polys when you patch. Also, pick the two splines at the tip of the nose first. That will make sure the polys radiate out from there and give you a cleaner mesh.

[TheAlfheim]

G'day SplineGod....

Is there any "hard and fast" rule to how many subpatches you should use?

Ive played around with the different numbers only a little. And for long, flowing curves, I use a higher number, whereas for lower detailed sections, I use smaller numbers.....

.....I'm guessing its the same as asking "how long is a piece of string".....

Cheers,
Andrew

[SplineGod]

My goal with a splne cage on characters is to get the basic form and flow set down in polygons. Once I have that I turn on SubDs and begin detailing. So instead of modeling from a box as a primitive, the initial polygonal object I get from patching is my 'box'" object. So I use splines mainly as a layout tool for polygons. I go for a SubD cage that has enough polys to be useful but low enough to be manageable. :)

[omar C]

me again:shrug:

i don't know what i'm doing wrong here ...but i always get the same error when i try and hit CTRL-F

now i keep getting

"need to directly select two or more points"

yesterday i tought i had forgoten to weld the point i showed earlier in the pic.....now i welded the point and i keep getting this error? this spline modeling is harder than i tought.

[omar C]

maybe my .lwo helps ...so someone could take a look at what could be wrong.

http://users.pandora.be/productions_image/

click on "dinohead.lwo" to download.

never mind the other stuff....i'm a beginner:shrug:

[SplineGod]

Heres the problem:
Before I had mentioned that one of the things you need to check is to make sure that when you have 3 splines selected that you really have 3 splines selected. When I select the 3 splines around the tip of the nose modeler indicated that 7 splines are selected, not 3. This means that you have duplicate geometry on top of each other. It looks like you somehow copied and pasted your geometry several times.

Heres how to fix it:
Hit the m key to MERGE points.
Hit shift i to UNIFY your splines (gets rid of polys or splines that are occupying the exact same space)

Now select the splines and repatch. :)

[LittleFenris]

ok, first thing you should do is hit m to merge points on the spline. thats probably causing half your issue right there. i merged 120 points on your splines doing that before i did anything. i got 3 of the sections to patch just fine after hitting m and merging all those points...the only sectionthat won't patch after doing that is the lower jaw section. the bottom spline is split in 2 right at the front part...and im not sure how to fix that since im relatively new to splines myself. :shrug: hope this helps some.

damn, SplineGod chimed in before i hit reply! oh well, hes more help than me anyways...i didn't know the Shift i command. after i did that all works great on your model. :applause:

[SplineGod]

Hey Fenris,
That last thing is the Unify which gets rid of the duplicate splines.
The reason you want to have the spline split there is to avoid getting triangles. I would split the spline along the top of the upper jaw near the tip as well. :)

[LittleFenris]

yeah, its the shift i command that fixed everything for me. i make sure i do quads instead of tris whenever i can. :wip:

[omar C]

Spline-g & LittleFenris

thank you both for all the help an taking the time to look into it..i really appreciate it guys!:thumbsup:

after hitting the m key and shift-i ...i was able to patch it.

this is what i got so far ....i added this "thing"(i don't know how to name it in english) under the chin just like with a chiken:applause:

this is the first time i ever used spline-patching ...i still got a long way to go but hey you first need to crawl before you walk wright...



http://users.pandora.be/productions_image/Naamloos-22.jpg

cheers

[SplineGod]

Looks good Omar,
I would patch with less polys and I would split the spline near the tip of the nose to avoid the triangles there like you did on the bottom jaw. :)

[LittleFenris]

only thing i would say is us a LOT less polygons when you patch it. did you just leave it at the default 10x10? you could get away with 4x4 in most cases, and even 2x2 in smaller areas. This will make a lot less polygons to move around and tweak and will render faster in the end. right now you have WAY more polygons than you need. good job so far though. :wip:

[omar C]

ok thnks for the tips!!

i'm going to start all over again...(its a good way to learn) and i'm going for less poly's this time because i did leave it on the default settings 10x10...i'll post how its going with some screen shots (but won't be today still got some studieing to do:shrug: )

cheers guys and thnks again

[LittleFenris]

you know, just to reduce the poly count you don't need to start over. just delete all the polys and leave the splines. then simply repatch the splines with less polys. :thumbsup: although i would add a couple more splines in places to define the heads shape a bit more. one place would be behind where you have the eyes and another inbetween the 2 existing splines for the lower jaw. just to give it a more rounded shape.

[omar C]

hey guys....

ok i started all over again and this time i used less poly's....i tryed and use 4x4 as you said LittleFenris but than i could not gave the model a nice rounded shape afeter rendering so i tought that the low poly count had sommething to do with it........so i used 7x7....too much wright....:blush: (i still can't get a nice rounded shape)

...http://users.pandora.be/productions_image/otherone.jpg



i did started moving around with my splines a lil to try and give it a more or less diferent head shape than in Larry Shultz tutorial ...i was just experimenting a little to discover the wonders of splines:applause:

yet i can't seem to get a nice rounded shape after rendering i keep seeing these lines on the head, i did hit subdivide - smooth" and that helped only a little....




annyway what do you guys think so far?

nice day....cheers

[LittleFenris]

you need to add some more splines to define the shape of the head more. one in the middle of the muzzle to define the shape of the upper jaw more and one behind the eyes to define the shape of the head more...and probably one in the middle of the lower jaw to give it some shape also.

here, i edited your original spline model you posted:

http://www.littlefenris.com/JPGs/Lightwave/dinohead.lwo

Here are the simple changes I made that should give your model a lot more shape. I used points you already had and made the splines with those, then added a point in the middle of the new spline so I could give it that round shape. BTW, this is using 4x4 patching. ;)

http://www.littlefenris.com/JPGs/Lightwave/dinohead_changes.jpg

[SplineGod]

Can I see just the splines?

[omar C]

ah great LittleFenris....i know you told me before but i didn't really understand what you meant...i'm going to add those lines tmrw:buttrock: thnks for the tip !!:thumbsup:


did you mean the splines for the fin Larry...?

http://users.pandora.be/productions_image/splines.jpg

:wavey:

[SplineGod]

JUST the splines without the polys.

[omar C]

ok ,here is what i'm going to do ...whenever you got some time and whenever you feel like it you can download the .lwo file here...its named : "dinoh.lwo"

link:

http://users.pandora.be/productions_image/


nice day and thank you

[SplineGod]

Hi Omar,
You can download the fixed version HERE (http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/dinoh_fixed.zip)

The problem is that you have to remember that things have a volume (even a fin) so you have to create the splines to reflect that. Im curved the spline at the top of the head out a bit to give the base of the fin some thickness.

Your splines up the side of the head meet in the center forming a very tight peak. Again curve them out so that the head is rounded on top and not peaked.
The same where the splines go into the lips, ROUND them out.
The splines going back from the corners of the mouth should not intersect at the neck but should continue back parallel to each other. Splines between each patch should match up too.
I also spline the profile spline at the nose so you dont get triangles there when you patch.
Take a look at my changes to see what I mean. :)


http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/dinoh_cage.jpg

[omar C]

thnks Larry i appreciate the help

i'll get into it soon as i get home from school....thnks again

kind regards

Omar

[SplineGod]

No problem Omar! :)
By the way, I wouldnt use splines to model the fin. Details like that are easier to just smooth shift out of the model. :)

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