braid-maker (XPresso modeling tool)

[Other3DMaster]

Thanks so much!!!

[stoavio]

Thanks a lot!

[JoelOtron]

Good work! Thanks

Now, if you can reconfigure that so I can create DNA double helices backbones, I'll be your best friend. : )

I use the plugin HELIX-(CLICK HERE)- (http://www.xlentplugs.com/)

to create DNA with help from MSA (on the same site) to generate the base pairs. I do a lot of remote renderfarm work and I'm trying to utilize Xpresso in place of 3rd party plugs in any way I can.

Thanks

[flingster]

now thats clever..i'm impressed anyways...its so much more fun now you upgraded to 8 following your threads...as to who needs knotplot...not you i guess...good job bud.:applause: :applause:

[Siddhy]

yeah, i second that. thanks for pulling up so much gems, bobzilla :)

[sulian]

:applause:

[JamesMK]

Whoa, that's pretty clever stuff!

[kromekat]

Thats great bob! - thanks! :)

[bobtronic]

Thanks for feedback. It seems I am not the only one who find
it useful.

cheers, Bob

[SeanL]

Hey Joel --

I've looked online for a formula that describes the DNA double helix (B-DNA), but haven't found one.

You probably know that the correct B-DNA structure (the one people always portray) isn't as simple as it is sometimes shown...

I've created graphics that aren't 'correct' and only suggest a recognizable form.

The funny thing is, I've seen so many incorrect structures, even in print magazines with a scientific audience (mostly in ads). One common mistake is a left-handed helix (doesn't exist in nature).

Anyway, if you come across a formula I would be very interested.

[SeanL]

PS - Thank you for the file Bob.

That's a very clever use of Xpresso/C.O.F.F.E.E.)

[JoelOtron]

Originally posted by SeanL
Hey Joel --

I've looked online for a formula that describes the DNA double helix (B-DNA), but haven't found one.

You probably know that the correct B-DNA structure (the one people always portray) isn't as simple as it is sometimes shown...

I've created graphics that aren't 'correct' and only suggest a recognizable form.

The funny thing is, I've seen so many incorrect structures, even in print magazines with a scientific audience (mostly in ads). One common mistake is a left-handed helix (doesn't exist in nature).

Anyway, if you come across a formula I would be very interested.

Yes. Things to make sure you get right when doing a DNA double helix, is first of all, make sure its a DOUBLE helix, not just a single (common mistake). You have a minor groove and a major groove as a result. MAke sure there are 5 basepairs per turn (the bars between the helices) and, as you say, "right handed turns" are correct.

ANyway, as far as a formula goes, the helix plugin and MSA are awesome tools to do this, and they allow for animation, if you want your DNA to bend and twist so the coils follow suit. Mikael Sterner even added a DNA sample file at my request in the plugin folder, so if you were to buy them, you could reverse engineer the file. I ultimately want to figure out an Xpresso solution, though. I'm sure there is one.

I have textbooks here as far as reference goes, but I'd be surprised if you couldnt find some good examples online. I suppose a trip to the library would do it.

[rirad]

Thanks a lot for the file. It is nice to see how you made this Xpression.
Now it would be nice if the braid could follow a pre-defined spline. (which could be animated with some sort of (fake) dynamics) :)Thanks a lot.

[JoelOtron]

Sorry to hog the thread, but wanted to post a disclaimer to my above post to SeanL. DNA actually has 10 basepairs per FULL 360º turn. Its 5 basepairs per half turn (which is how I tend to look at it)

[Ikari]

Originally posted by bobtronic
Thanks for feedback. It seems I am not the only one who find
it useful.

cheers, Bob

of course not. i like it too!

so a big thx to you, es ist toll das es user wie dich gibt die ihr können und ihr skill teilen wollen :) und das die meisten davon c4d benutzen hehehehe

[segart]

Thank you so much:beer:

I really have bad luck. Just finished an image for a contest and this would have saved me a lot of hours of figuring how those things are made.

But it'll be very useful the next time.

Just one question. Is it possible to change the lenght and keep the aspect of the "waves".

Thanks again.

Segart

PS here's the image I mentioned:

Leia unchained (http://segart0.tripod.com/jpgs/segart2.jpg)

[Gunter]

rirad wrote:
Now it would be nice if the braid could follow a pre-defined spline. (which could be animated with some sort of (fake) dynamics) Thanks a lot.

Yes, any ideas? Thanks a lot too :)

Gunter

[JoelOtron]

Put a bend deformer (or any deformer) above the sweep nurbs.

[JoelOtron]

Just playing around with deformers. (though an animatable guide spline would be nice :)

http://www.betatronstudios.com/3fx/braidmovie_sm.mov

[Gunter]

looks nice :thumbsup:

Suppose the guide must be part of the formula. . . .
If you had known my mathe teacher, you´d know, why i don´t know how :D :hmm:

[SeanL]

Joel, thanks for the info about MSA. It sounds good and I will end up purchasing it, most likely.

PS - don't be too worried about giving me accurate science related information. My formal education is in Cell and Molecular Biology ;)

[MJV]

There was an interesting presentation about DNA in last years SIGGRAPH Electronic Theater about how it's coiled, then the coil coiled upon itself, then again and again, ending in the familiar coil seen under a microscope, and then more about how it's replicated/divided. Pretty amazing stuff that DNA.

[Damsel]

Thanks so much! That is really a big help Bob!

[bobtronic]

Originally posted by rirad
Now it would be nice if the braid could follow a pre-defined spline. (which could be animated with some sort of (fake) dynamics) :)Thanks a lot.


I will see what I can do :)


And thank you all for the great feedback.


Bob

[NWoolridge]

Originally posted by SeanL
I've looked online for a formula that describes the DNA double helix (B-DNA), but haven't found one.

You probably know that the correct B-DNA structure (the one people always portray) isn't as simple as it is sometimes shown...
...

The funny thing is, I've seen so many incorrect structures, even in print magazines with a scientific audience (mostly in ads). One common mistake is a left-handed helix (doesn't exist in nature).

Anyway, if you come across a formula I would be very interested.

Hi,

There are good refernces on the web, such as:

Nucleic acid lecture PDF (http://www.bioc.aecom.yu.edu/labs/brenlab/courses/Brenowitz/GB_MB2003_Lecture02-v01.pdf)

Do a search for "DNA helix pitch" and you'll come up with good links. The pitch, as it turns out, is 34 angstroms, but that requires that you have modelled proportionally.

And, a minor quibble: there is an uncommon, but natural form of left-handed DNA (Z-DNA) whose function is obscure. But your point is correct; I don't know how many times I've seen left-handed helices in logos/illustrations from people or companies who should know better.

I have a web page where I have a few notes on importing molecules from the protein data bank into C4D (using the late, lamented Weblab Viewer software):

Molecules in C4D (http://www.bmc.med.utoronto.ca/molecule/)

Its pretty easy to find pdb or MOL files of B-DNA. You can get them into C4D (as solvent surfaces, ball and stick, space-filling, ribbons, etc.) and use the real data, or base your models on them. neat stuff!

David Goodsell's work is an inspiration in this regard, including his molecule of the month at the protein data bank:
Molecule of the month (http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/molecules/molecule_list.html)
David Goodsell (http://www.scripps.edu/pub/goodsell/)

Hope this helps,

Nick

[NWoolridge]

Originally posted by MJV
There was an interesting presentation about DNA in last years SIGGRAPH Electronic Theater about how it's coiled, then the coil coiled upon itself, then again and again, ending in the familiar coil seen under a microscope, and then more about how it's replicated/divided. Pretty amazing stuff that DNA.

Yes, that was the fantastic work of the animator Drew Barry (had lunch with him and David Goodsell at SIGGRAPH last year). He works at the Walter and Eliza Hill Research Institute in Melbourne, Australia. You can see low-res versions of that work (including much more than was shown in the electronic theater) at:

WEHI-TV link (http://www.wehi.edu.au/education/wehi-tv/index.html)

This work has been used in a number of productions (on PBS's NOVA, etc.) around the 50th anniversary of the discovery of the structure of DNA. You can also see them (with narration) at :

DNAinteractive (http://www.dnai.org/)

His work has a lovely, jiggling, thermal energy to it. Many people assume they are seeing data-based simulations of molecular movement, but they are not. They are excellent explanatory animations.

Nick

[NWoolridge]

Originally posted by JoelD
I do a lot of remote renderfarm work and I'm trying to utilize Xpresso in place of 3rd party plugs in any way I can.

You might want to try Yasuhiro Nishi's WindShape Xpresso Node, available at:

http://www.linkclub.or.jp/~westy/tools/xpresso/xpresso_archives01.html

It seems to do most of what Helix does for free, though it is probably harder to use... The web docs are in Japanese, but there are example files with the download...

Nick

[JoelOtron]

Thanks for the great links

[bobtronic]

Hi,

I have begun with coding a braid spline plugin. I will add some
new features like the following a spline and a taper function.

Here is a preview:

http://home.snafu.de/bobtronic/misc/braid_preview.jpg

At the moment the plugin has the same functionality like the
expression.

updates coming soon


Bob

[nhytro]

Thats very cool info Nick. I have tried once to import PDB date by converting but I have´nt found a program that can convert valid VRML. Do you have another Idea on how to get PDB stuctures in C4D?

Thanks

Originally posted by NWoolridge
Hi,



I have a web page where I have a few notes on importing molecules from the protein data bank into C4D (using the late, lamented Weblab Viewer software):

Molecules in C4D (http://www.bmc.med.utoronto.ca/molecule/)

Its pretty easy to find pdb or MOL files of B-DNA. You can get them into C4D (as solvent surfaces, ball and stick, space-filling, ribbons, etc.) and use the real data, or base your models on them. neat stuff!

Nick

[flingster]

braid spline...Oooh funky monkey...
lookin' good bobster...:beer:

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