Questions about shadows and lighting.

[Wegg]

Here are my settings. . .

http://www.eggington.net/RenderTests/Settings.png

[simeon.n]

Originally posted by Wegg
As you know lights in Studio can only cast hard raytraced shadows.


messiah:studio has area lights (called "Panel" lights, and "Sphere" lights). Set your light type to either panel or sphere, enable raytrace shadows, and you will get soft area-light-like shadows. Area light quality can be set in the light settings block.

[WesComan]

Originally posted by Wegg

As you know lights in Studio can only cast hard raytraced shadows.



I think Area lights cast soft shadows. :)

edit: Doh! Simeon got there first.

[Wegg]

Huh. . .

Why couldn't I find that. . .

And why wasn't it in the manual. . .

And. . . where is this light settings block?

[Wegg]

Oh wait there it is. . .

Cool.

4:43 minutes AA level 4

http://www.eggington.net/RenderTests/PannelLight.png

Is there a Shading Noise Reduction anywhere?

[maks]

Nope, but there is something to come I believe...;)

M.

[Wegg]

Wowa. . .

Increasing the Anti Alias level made it worse. Now the AA is at 5.

And. . . what are these dots and cunks?
http://www.eggington.net/RenderTests/PannelLightB.png

[chikega]

Hey Wegg,

Could you post the scene file, preferably in .mpj format. :)

[Wegg]

Here ya go. (http://www.eggington.net/RenderTests/Lighting.mpj)

[MoodyB]

Wegg, what cpu are you running Studio on ?

[Wegg]

Dual Athlon MP

[chikega]

Well, Wegg,

I see that you're working on a medical animation project. You've left some brain surfaces in the file. ;)

I can confirm your findings ... seems a bit strange that increasing the AA would lead to grainier shadows.

The chunks you see is a delineation between what is in raytraced shadows and what's not - usually at the junction of polygons. Haven't seen those since my Imagine days. Here's a page on that issue I wrote back in '96/'97. Man, how time flies when you're having fun.

http://www.3ddmd.com/polyartifacts.htm

Supposedly, messiah:studio renders SubPatch/MetaNurbs objects without going through the tesselation process - but it still displays seams at "star" junctions or where more than 4 splines intersect.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101271&highlight=test+renders

This is supposed to be addressed at a future release. Unchecking "Self shadow" is one partial solution, but if the object has something like a tentacle then it's not going to be accurate. Hopefully, the polygonal shadow artifacts will be addressed as well.

:)

[MoodyB]

If you make the default surface reflective ( say 0.5 ), when Studio does its 2nd rendering pass, it smooths out the blotchy area shadows on the polygons, as it should, but leaves the reflected shadows ' noisy ' looking....

[Wegg]

WOWA!

Throw the area light quality up to 10.

It looks better and renders in LESS TIME!

3:14 instead of 4 somethin. . .

http://www.eggington.net/RenderTests/PannelLightC.png

I'm goin for 20. . .

[Wegg]

Oh this is so cool.

Lightwave would choke and friggen die if I set its area light quality up this high. Infact I doubt it can go this high.

And no shading noise reduction.

MMmmm.. . .

3:52

http://www.eggington.net/RenderTests/PannelLightD.png

[MoodyB]

Remember that you can scale the area light on x or y to get softer shadows if needed. Or try a spherical light instead.

[simeon.n]

Originally posted by Wegg
Oh wait there it is. . .

Cool.

4:43 minutes AA level 4

(image)

Is there a Shading Noise Reduction anywhere?

Hi Wegg, thanks for sharing the test scene. It is possible to cut the render times quite drastically and improve the shadow quality by playing with a few settings.

Firstly, I noticed you're using "Hybrid" GI for the global illumination type. In this situation it's best to use plain "Monte Carlo", as photon mapping is doing absolutely nothing (aside from increasing render times).

My settings for the following three renders were:

AA Type: Adaptive SS (Enhanced is better, but the extra smoothing makes it hard to test shadow quality).
AA Level: 2

GI Type: Monte Carlo
GI Depth: 3 (setting to 1 cuts ~5.5 seconds from each render)
GI Level: 4

http://home.iprimus.com.au/interpol/ALQ_05.png
Render Times:
1 Thread: 32s
2 Thread: 25s
Area Light Quality: 5


http://home.iprimus.com.au/interpol/ALQ_10.png
Render Times:
1 Thread: 41s
2 Thread: 30s
Area Light Quality: 10


http://home.iprimus.com.au/interpol/ALQ_15.png
Render Times:
1 Thread: 58s
2 Thread: 46s
Area Light Quality: 15


I think the area light quality/rendering time is quite reasonable. At a quality of 15 the grain is no longer noticeable. So I didn't post results for higher than 15.

Casting shadows on a textured surface would let you get away with using an area light quality of 5-8, where 9-15 is needed for shadows on plain surfaces.

I am using a dual Athlon MP 1800+ for these renders.

[Wegg]

OOoooo NIiiiiiccceeee.

44 seconds at area quality 15.

[lmilton]

Originally posted by chikega
Well, Wegg,

The chunks you see is a delineation between what is in raytraced shadows and what's not - usually at the junction of polygons.
This has already been addressed in the update. Fori has also been working on solutions for the MetaNURBS seems.

As always, we'll let you know when the update is available.

Wegg, Simeon, thanx for the tests/help/scene :thumbsup:

-lyle

ps: yeah, I'm still in a crunch, but I thought I take a quick break to provide a little info.

[chikega]

Thanks, Lyle, for stopping by and checking in on us - it's encouraging to see that you guys are hard at work on the next patch ... no pressure. Now, get back in your cave.:D

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