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dur23
02-07-2004, 12:06 AM
Initial Concept.
http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/battle_ogre_uh.jpg

kotter
02-07-2004, 09:48 AM
cool concept and great model.
Maybe the legs are a bit thick, but I'm not sure...

no ideas for the crotch armor, sorry, but the textures will be awesome I'm sure ;)

Buck
02-07-2004, 10:13 PM
Cool concept!

If you're aiming at following the concept i'de suggest that you make his bicep muscle a bit bigger and perhaps round out the armor around the shoulders and head.

And again sweet concept! :)

Lopoly
02-07-2004, 10:58 PM
Hey! It's looks like tortoise on steroids ;) If it was Your's initial idea he definitelly needs more armor on chest and back ;) Cool concept annyway.

BurrowingDuck
02-08-2004, 05:32 AM
Very well done but i prefer the creature in your concept to what you have now.

pimeto
02-08-2004, 01:17 PM
nice :) i like the monster, specialy the armor on the back,
can we see a wireframe

dur23
02-08-2004, 10:20 PM
kotter: I think i got myself some nice crotch armor now;) I kinda like the legs as thick as they are. It makes it look like he could actually support all that weight coming from up top. Thanks for comments!

Buck: I was initially following the concept, but then i started to drift off a lil. Thats why the armor isn't quite the same as the concept. I think i like this bone-like armor look now. Besides the armor in the concept i came up with in like 2-3 mins. So its not such a good design imo:) but thats just me...

Lopoly: Thanks! His armor i think is final. I like this boney armor deal i gots going on now! Glad you like the concept.

BurrowingDuck: Ahh the one in the concept is to friendly looking imo. This one i feel is much tougher. Besides its supposed to be a monster...like RAR!!

pimeto: THanks! Heres the wireframe!


Modeling is done. I think at least. I may or may not add a main of fur around the crotch armor. Havn't yet decided. :)

[

dur23
02-14-2004, 09:50 PM
models done...now on to textures and some anims...

http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/Alliogre_done.jpg

TRyanD
02-15-2004, 04:57 AM
Awsome :)

Fox Mc Cloud
02-15-2004, 01:43 PM
Man thats some great poly pushing, just kicks ass nothing
i could crit ohh yeah after you won the contest with that
cool model could you port him to UT 2003 that would be
some awesome stuff. :)


Greetz Fox Mc Cloud

Razorwolf
02-15-2004, 04:24 PM
This beast won't be kicked in the nuts too soon.
Good job man, put a sweet texture on it :).

dur23
02-16-2004, 10:37 AM
going for a nice easy stroll (http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/walkie.avi)

EVIL
02-16-2004, 02:31 PM
looks cool, but I think he walks to gentle. his feet dont really stomp on the ground. I dont get the feel of weight in his animation. but the model is superb, cant wait to see the textures

Xaint
02-16-2004, 08:13 PM
Have you used smoothing groups (or hard edges) under the shoulders, around biceps and where the elbow and triceps meets? The vertex lighting looks cool there.

RmachucaA
02-16-2004, 08:41 PM
Also, since he uses XSI, it looks so much better. Job well done, cant wait to see the next update!

dur23
02-18-2004, 10:59 PM
heya guys...updated the walk....i really don't have very good patience when it comes to animation tho...hehe.

The smoothing groups are just hard edges in xsi....

Thanks for the comments and crits...

UPDATED WALKY (http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/walky.avi)

dur23
02-24-2004, 11:56 AM
weeeee....normal maps make fun!

http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/alliogre_nm.jpg

pnyx
02-24-2004, 12:07 PM
wow, amazing!!!

how do you render it?

AndyBa
02-24-2004, 12:33 PM
Wow!!! This is cool!
How did you do it?

kotter
02-24-2004, 02:17 PM
yeah, that's a realy cool update.
good work!!

EVIL
02-24-2004, 04:41 PM
zbrush? and the walk has definatly improved, I can now immagine fear when I would encounter one for real, GJ!

dur23
02-24-2004, 07:59 PM
pnyx: just a couple lights and some nice normal maps...:)

Andyba: xsi + zbrush + normal mapping = good times;)

kotter: Thanks!

EVIL: si! Ya i think may i do the walk from scratch, it can only get better i think..hehe..THanks!

heres the high poly meshes used to generate the normal maps......

http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/Alliogre_hi.jpg

mv
02-24-2004, 08:13 PM
man, that's some mastered normal mapping . Looking awesome!! can't wait to see that one finished.
Keep it up dur23!

AndyBa
02-25-2004, 07:37 AM
Hey, Dur! :)
Really nice stuff!
Thanks for your answers...
What software do you use for normal mapping?

MFTituS
02-25-2004, 02:20 PM
yeah, it looks great with the normal map.

the only things is that his legs are not so defined like the upper body. there you even see the musclestrands, but his legs are more crude, cloddy - something like this.
they dont fit to the detailed body.

Grooveholmes
02-26-2004, 01:06 AM
Holy christ, good work man.
Crackin' good work!
I gotta get my hands on zbrush.

wartorn
02-26-2004, 05:04 PM
wow. just wow. I wonder though as i am not that strong in the texturing field. what exactly do u mean by normal mapping, is that the same as bump map but for xsi? or is this something found in max as well. and how does it work.. i have a university project due soon, and such work on my textures can work wonders for my low poly models. Thank you, and again, i think this is the most detailed 3000 some poly model ive ever seen! great job.

Frank Dodd
02-27-2004, 12:18 PM
Excelent work on this model a huge amount of detail in there that looks really great. I particularlly like the demonic codpiece, most entertaining :)

Kaotica
02-27-2004, 05:25 PM
those normal maps blow my mind Is there any chance that someone could give a tutorials oh how to use them I don't even know were to start. I use max so I'm not sure if its the same would be most helpful If that what the tutorial was in.

cool stuff

BurrowingDuck
02-27-2004, 05:42 PM
Z brush is definately your friend :D awesome job on those normal maps dur.

dur23
02-28-2004, 11:58 PM
m@.: If you think this is great then i must being doing something right!! Hehe thanks m@, your a personal inspiration...

AndyBa: no problem. xsi is my tool...

MFTitus: I get what your saying. But i think im gonna go the way of doom 3 and use a bump aswell as the normal map. Then you'll see the detail that was intended for the legs;) Thanks for the comments and crits...

Grooveholmes: Thanks, and ya you should its hella fun!

wartorn:Normal mapping is a similar process, but instead of using the normal provided by the vertex of your model it generates its own based on a perpixel level. Im sure if you did a lil search on this forum you'd see some interesting threads that can explain it to you. Thanks for the comments!

Frank Dodd: the codpiece was fun in zbrush:)

Kaotica: Hit up google or even this forums search engine and you'll come across a fair few threads about normal mapping...thanks for the comments:)

BurrowingDuck: si! Thanks!


Update....havn't had much time to work on this.... but heres the normal maps in motion (http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/walk3.avi)

dur23
02-29-2004, 12:08 AM
Codpiece lovin

http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/alliogre_skull.jpg

Prs-Phil
02-29-2004, 01:23 PM
woha m8, your making me interested in Z-brush

Great work m8

Matthew Moran
03-04-2004, 12:25 PM
sweet model man. and sorry if you already told us, but what are you using for sw?

Dixter
03-04-2004, 07:07 PM
Cool charater, And great work on the normal mapping.. I can't wait to see this get finnished.

Matt
03-04-2004, 10:03 PM
Just another 'great normal mapping' comment, from yours truly.

Jeffo
03-05-2004, 12:05 AM
this is kickass dur, im loving it!

updates! updates! updates!

what engine ya gonna toss it into? :)

Gyzer
03-05-2004, 06:45 AM
Ok, I've heard alot of mentions about zbrush, but I'm not sure what exactly it does?

I'm very interested in normal mapping, and I'm gonna attempt to try it with a character as soon as I can get my hands on max 6.

dur23
03-05-2004, 08:51 AM
Prs-Phil: Give'r a go...shes a fun ride...ty

Matthew Moran: xsi + zbrush...thx

Dixter: I can't wait to see it finished either;)

Matt: Thanks bud!

Jeffro: Not sure what engine im gonna toss er into, probably something me and buddy are working on. Thanks! update bellow....

Gyzer: It makes things purdy! :) Look it up on google...lots of good sites will come up im sure....that and the pixel logic web site... Thanks



http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/Alliogre_diff1.jpg

WALK RE-RENDER (http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/walkin.avi)

Ivars
03-05-2004, 09:02 AM
WOW! Truly inspiring work!

Though in the animation his legs moves almost robotic... if you know what I mean :)

SammyB
03-05-2004, 10:51 AM
Hot damn! That's looking nice man, keep it up.

EVIL
03-05-2004, 11:48 AM
Wicked!! I saw your new render at polycoutn.a dn yes! definatly add a bump map for the extra fine details. you can even bump those scale stuff he has on his body.

And what resolution are the textures and normal maps?

CGmonkey
03-05-2004, 12:52 PM
Inspiring work.. Love the detail.

But what version of Zbrush is that? Is that the unreleased beta?

Obi-one
03-05-2004, 01:15 PM
This is awesome.
Can't wait to see the final result.

Mastakojo
03-05-2004, 03:04 PM
OMG! This is S.I.C.K.!
Man u r my idol!
I wsih i can do something like that, why this aint on the front page, i mean this is amazing, from the concept to the modeling.
Top notch stuff!

Razorwolf
03-05-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Mastakojo
OMG! This is S.I.C.K.!
Man u r my idol!
I wsih i can do something like that, why this aint on the front page, i mean this is amazing, from the concept to the modeling.
Top notch stuff! That's because it's a WIP :)

Gyzer
03-06-2004, 05:23 AM
dur23 how did you do your high polly pieces? Did you model them off of the original low polly pieces? Did you build them from scratch using nurbs or something? Or did you use Zbrush and did some sort of displacment map?

I'm mainly a low polly modeler, but I'm interested in going from a low polly model to a high for a normal map with the least amount of extra work as possible.

Thanks

Matt
03-06-2004, 05:47 AM
Hi Gyzer... I'll try to answer you with the method I use for this type of work. Once you've finished your low poly model you have to subdivide the mesh. You can do this two ways (With a 3D Studio Max to ZBrush method.)

[list=a] (Preferred) Subdivide the mesh in max. Don't use meshsmoothing or nurbs or anything like that. You want it to look low poly but have the extra cuts.
Subdivide using ZBrush.[/list=a]
Both do the same thing. I just prefer doing it in max first.

Once you've imported your mesh into ZBrush (OBJ or DXF) you use the sculpting tools to manipulate the thing until it's how you want it. This is where not changing the way the mesh looks is to your benefit. You can change the appearance of the mesh, adding any attribute you wish, without sacrificing the general outline and structure of the piece. Once finished sculpting, you export the mesh from ZBrush and bring it back into max. I only work on one side of the mesh when I'm in ZBrush, so that when I bring the mesh into max I can chop the half I don't want off, and then mirror the part I've detailed.

For further detail, and to break up any symmetrical appearance, you can then (after fixing any mesh problems) export it once again, and bring it into ZBrush. Here you can add unimportant details that spice the thing up a bit. Perhaps a mole on one cheek, or a scar on one side. After completion of this process, and repeating the import to max procedure, you have your basis for the normal map.

There are several plugins and programs available for normal map generation. To find out more about them, please run a search on this forum for normal maps. For general purposes, I believe it would be in everyone's best interests for future prevention of clutter and repetative questions, if a normal map technology thread be archived and pinned to the top of this forum as a sticky thread.

Gyzer
03-06-2004, 06:24 AM
Thanks, that did clear up some stuff, but I'm a bit confused on one part: What do you mean by subdivide? I've heard the word used before, and I kinda understand what it means, but I kinda don't. Can you explain?

Also, when do u unwrap the mesh? Cause wouldn't the vertex numbering be different cause of you adding verts?

Thanks

h0pesfall
03-06-2004, 03:53 PM
Holy ****, it's incredible what you can do now that we have normal maps. Awesome work. I'm amazed.

SquirrelyJones
03-06-2004, 10:16 PM
Very nice indeed, only thing I can see at this point is that the spots just sort of fade off into nothing. You should probably have them get smaller around the edge or something. Again thats pretty sweet.

KolbyJukes
03-07-2004, 05:01 AM
Bravo Dur23.

Very very impressive. Makes me want to try out normal mapping.

-Kol.

abandonstage
03-07-2004, 06:11 PM
I'm a long time lurker, and I know my comment doesn't mean much as it's my first post but this is a really amazing model.

The only thing I can really comment on for improvement is his leg movement as was mentioned earlier in the walk cycle. I can't wait to see this plugged ;)

goodlag
03-08-2004, 11:47 AM
excellent work DRU!!

dur23
03-11-2004, 09:17 AM
Still got a couple parts that are still WIP, im making his weapon and working on a new animation. Ill call him done once i have at least one decent animation:).....shouldn't be too long....hopefully.


http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/Alliogre_almost1.jpg
http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/Alliogre_almost2.jpg
http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/Alliogre_almost3.jpg

Miguelito
03-11-2004, 09:25 AM
Just awesome!

Gyzer
03-11-2004, 09:34 AM
Fing awsome man!!!!

I'm just wanting some help on how to do a higher polly model for a normal map lol

I also just looked at ur website and I noticed that u've got a model of a combine soldier for half-life 2. Do u work for Valve?

DAJYMO
03-11-2004, 12:59 PM
This is the best lowpoly / Ingame character that i ever seen. Great work man.

nathan 3d
03-11-2004, 04:07 PM
Amazing work! This is DOOM III style/quality all the way! That normal mapping shure is alot of work right?

Good Job!

NeoGSR
03-11-2004, 04:52 PM
I just wanted to let you know what I like about your character...

Weight... he looks big and heavy. Sometimes hard to do in 3d but you got it with him... or her I dont know, haha...

Fox Mc Cloud
03-11-2004, 05:06 PM
Man i really want to see him walking around in an real
3D Engine thats looking so damn cool and a tut for that
normal mapping stuff im really getting intristed in *cheers*


Greetz Fox Mc Cloud

dur23
03-11-2004, 08:13 PM
gyzer: i wish i worked for valve:)

miguelito,NeoGSR,DAJYMO: thanks!! Wheight=teh fun.

nathan 3D: thanks man. Actually getting the diffuse to looks good was the hardest part imo:)

Fox Mc Cloud:I would too. Right now tho i don't have access to engine that supports normals+bump+spe+diff....soooo when one comes out im sure ill get something ready for it.

FLATS FOR THE BODY (http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/alliogre_flats.jpg)
http://www.20threed.com/images/pimpin/Alliogre_normonly.jpg

Staffan Norling
03-11-2004, 08:28 PM
Pretty amazing model you've got there...but why do you use both normal mapping and bump mapping? (yeah, i understand that the type of detail you added with the bumpmap is easier made that way). Why don't you add the bumpmap to the normal map, and save some texture memory?

dur23
03-11-2004, 08:56 PM
1. Its a fair bit easier to do it this way. Getting tiny little creases in the skin would be a pain other wise.

2. You could probably put the specular and bump into the alpha of both the diffuse and normal map that way saving tons of space.

Jeffo
03-11-2004, 09:08 PM
dur this is looking amazing man!

i love the shot a couple pages back.

i heard you were looking for an xsi job, i might know a place for ya, if interested, pm me.

why dont you put the bump map right into the normal map?

mv
03-11-2004, 10:48 PM
looking friggin ace .
Jeffo : I think it's just because the ways of doing bump and normal are not the same. Normal from geometry, bump from painted map :)
As he said, "Its a fair bit easier to do it this way. Getting tiny little creases in the skin would be a pain other wise.
"

Keep it up !

Jeffo
03-11-2004, 11:16 PM
m@: i know, but the normal map is a texture, im guessing using the same uvs, unless for some reason its a different channel, so you can compile em together :) so you only have one normal/bump map.

theres a program called Kaldera, i know its for max, not sure for xsi though.

It's pretty awesome, we used it on Battlefield Vietnam, works great!

then any engine that can handle normal maps can do it, i dont know too many that supports normal maps and bump maps, although, it would be cool i guess, lots of memory hogging though :)


edit: i see that what i said was just already said, nevermind! haha still good to save memory though ;)

Staffan Norling
03-12-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Jeffo
theres a program called Kaldera, i know its for max, not sure for xsi though.


You could do it in Maya too, with a cool shading network...i'm pretty sure that XSI will have the same capabilities.

Zdead
03-12-2004, 12:13 PM
waaaaaw superbe!

imscifi
03-12-2004, 12:54 PM
wow... you have done some fantastic work. Thanks for sharing with us on how you've been putting this together. It definitely helps me in figuring out what I should be doing for modeling, texturing and shading.

I do have one comment though. (not getting by on compliments alone... ;) ) The armor needs the same love that you gave your beast. It looks too plastic for me. The skull cod peice looks like plastic as well... I don't think he'd be running around with something bought from a toy store if ya know what I mean! ;P

very cool... do you have any tutorials?

the_zed_axis
03-12-2004, 06:28 PM
i will second that imscifi
by the way awesome work u got there dude hope to see your name in a future' valve' game :)

Dixter
03-13-2004, 08:55 AM
Plain awesome man..


I love it!

3DKnight
03-13-2004, 05:46 PM
That is amazing.

Normal Maps certainly are the future of gaming... however I think it is still a few years off untill it is common practice. Developers usually have to cater to the bottom level of hardware people have, so as not to loose sales to the people who don't have the power to run the game.


I doubt I would get smooth results from the new DOOM on my 1.2 Athalon :p

I think also with the new Zbrush coming out, it will also pressure game modelers to have a even stronger knowledge of anatomy than before. Raising the bar for future employees (like me :p)

Jeffo
03-13-2004, 08:35 PM
3dknight: its the video card mostly for normal mapping, actually better on the processing because you use much less polys, in most cases. The downfall is, the texture memory gets quite abit larger. In some cases it actually speeds up the processing because it contains all the lighting information that normally the computer would have to process.

it is still very new tech, lots to learn yet :)

Matt
03-14-2004, 04:42 AM
Couldn't we do a normal+bump combination for added detail like, for example: Normal map handles all the major shape features, and the bump would be some crappy tiling detail texture, just to give extra bump when the character is extremely close to the camera?

Then in your shader just specify the bump as a detail texture so it only appears when you get close to it...

Sort of like this: A basketball, you would use a normal map for the black lines that go around the ball, and a lower resolution, tiling bump for the little bumps on the ball... Then in your shader you could mask off the black lines of the basketball so those small bumps from the bump map don't go where the black lines are?

Hmmm, I wonder how many passes that would take to render! :) The only advantage would be if the ball gets so close to the camera that you could see the bumps.

dominicqwek
03-14-2004, 06:39 PM
I second the idea of making a sticky for normal mapping. :)

If say im working with epoly in max and i wanna do normal mapping, the workflow would be to cut down from a hipoly model to a lopoly one or vice versa? And what about uv mapping? Im also concerned on the management of vertices when cutting down from a hi poly model, will tht affect the uvs in anyway?

Livio3d
03-15-2004, 02:28 PM
can you post image of rendertree ? , how you render normal map ?

Xaint
03-15-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by dur23
1. Its a fair bit easier to do it this way. Getting tiny little creases in the skin would be a pain other wise.

2. You could probably put the specular and bump into the alpha of both the diffuse and normal map that way saving tons of space.

I don't get it. If you bake the bump into the normal map, you'll get one normal map with all the detail, this way you won't have to use the bump map, thus saving render time. Am I rite, or I miss something?

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