Totally awesome Gnomon DVDs coming next week!

[peanut]

Gnomon is pretty agressive marketing wise lately

[Sieb]

I love all this concept stuff they are doing. :beer:

[ThePuppetMaster]

This is amazing news. Very glad to hear more are coming out.

[SheepFactory]

This is simply incredible! I better start saving up cause all these titles look like must have.


Thank you gnomon for coming up with original content!

[erilaz]

My wallet and I are not going to be on speaking terms after this.:D

[jadedchron]

They should really include like a 10-20 video clip on the website for each DVD because I don't think I'm ready to lay down 60+ $ a DVD w/out knowing what they are like at all.

[Pyke]

Take it from the testimonials-these are INCREDIBLE.

And Feng is my favorite concept artist. :)

[AJE]

I think the videos are brilliant... and brilliantly over priced.

I really hope the crew over there realizes one day that the people who would benefit from these videos the most are the ones who can't afford $50-$60 a disk...

$25-$30 should be the most that these things cost (since there's no distribution costs with web sales, shipping is paid by the client, and I am willing to bet that they are made in-house).
Even at that price, they'd be making a killing.

It's almost like they forgot that a lot of people don't earn American dollars, so upwards of $60 USD is hovering around $90-$100 or much more for a lot of us.

It's disappointing to say the least.

Like I said, great videos, but guys, please think about selling more by making the price reasonable.

Cheers,
AJE

[Chaosphere]

I certainly think lowering the price would give them a LOT more sales, I myself want to buy some, but i am a bit poor :( however if they were like half the price of what they are right now, then I would certainly pick one or two up and see what they have to offer.... Is there a way to get a discount on them...though I am not a student. I would need a poor/broke discount :D

[PixelShader]

The DVD's are a bargain if you consider that you cannot get this sort of training elsewhere. People such as Feng, Ryan Church, Harald Belker, Scott Robertson and Neville Page are not the teachers that you find in your local community college (unless you're in LA), these are hardcore production artists.

If the DVD price bothers you that much, there actually is a market for secondhand Gnomon DVD's. Watch them once, twice, then sell them cuz you would have gained the skills already.

Geoff

[jadedchron]

Where is this "market" at? ebay?

[Pyke]

$50-$60 is a days wages working minumum wage. For there content I dont think think that it is a bad price at all.

I think that they could offer maybe bundles tho. IE-All of FENGS DVD's for $150 or something...

[KolbyJukes]

Originally posted by AJE
It's almost like they forgot that a lot of people don't earn American dollars, so upwards of $60 USD is hovering around $90-$100 or much more for a lot of us.


exactamundo...I could never afford to buy more then one of these in a given year. There are what ... four Feng Zhu DVDs? That would cost me near $400, too much. I'm on a student's budget, and most students can't afford this.

But for those of you who can afford them...enjoy! I'll stick to starting at Feng's site and drooling...

-Kol

[sforsyth]

$50-$60 is a days wages working minumum wage.

Doesn't that REALLY depend on where you are? I mean, in a lot of countries, that's a LOT of days wages. Besides, add on the $23 international shipping, then add taxes and it starts looking a lot more expensive to people not living in the States.

I have to agree, I think they're overpriced too. I got the two sculpture ones, and while I was prepared to pay for them, and I do think they are good, the cost is enough to make me think twice before buying more (basically ending up around $100 each), which is a pity, if they were reasonably priced, I'd be going nuts and getting everything.

Having said all that, they are very good, and I would recommend anyone with the money who is interested in them in just getting them. (the sculpture ones anyway, can't speak for the rest as I haven't seen them)

[Jarah]

I bought the digital Painting DVD of Mr. Feng 2 months back when it cames to markets ... i have 4 years experince in Photoshop's digital painting & i can say frankly that i learned many things from the DVD although i have very good experince

well the price is a littel bit high i admit but like what PixelShader said ... thous people are not ordinary people giving u some lessons ... they are masters in design ... like a consultant doctor who give u some of his medical experince or advice ... & u have to pay for this experince to get it

i'm really forward to buy another nice DVD from Gnomon .... experinces like these you won't find anywhere on the net on videos ... somebody talk to u & explain step by step his movments & deeds ... i think they worth the price although it's a littel bit high as i said

[steelblade]

howdi peeps.... little question.. are the concept and design vids still pushed towards maya users or are they non software specific?

laters

[ScribbleHEAD]

hehe, i'm assuming you know the craft of concept/art right...

I would say in most of the new dvd's (atleast the feng ones) the primary focus is on the traditional tools, such as graphite and pens - the feng dvd's are not particular software specific as such.

Tho i think its a plus to have either an up-to-date version of photshop/painter or any other equivelant, just for the sake of convenience (more or less because some techniques might differ from the 2 major software programs)

[pimeto]

That would cost me near $400, too much.
here in bulgaria 400$ is the salary for four months. this is way of the limit for me, a simple student.
as the amerikans say NO WAY HOSE ;)

[alexyork]

I have seen a couple of the old Gnomon videos based on Maya and I must say I could transfer what i'd learnt from those vids into XSI and integrate those techniques easily. they teach concepts, fundamental skills and tips n tricks rather than dead specific maya functions. the concept art ones are also excellent and are completely software-independent.

i'm a student and the only way I can afford to see these DVDs is nick them from my tutor's office once in a long while so he doesn't notice they're missing.

$60 is fine for someone with a job. but for students and learners (the main target audience of these DVDs i guess) $60 is pretty much out of the question. I would probably lay down £20 for each DVD and no more, despite their worth.

on the whole, though, an aweful lot can be gained from these DVDs - there really is NO other training like it on the screen. if you want anything similar then you have to go to a dedicated animation FX school (like, er, gnomon ;])

i guess one big reason for the suggested price drop is 3d buzz. those guys are offering mid-level and beginner tutorial movies for !free! Sure... they're not as high-end and in-depth as Gnomon's material, but they sure are a GREAT way to learn the basics, and even some pretty high-end stuff (one buzz movie i got on a 3D World magazine CD was for volumetric effects in Houdini using SHOPS COPS BOPS and PLOPS or whatever they're called heh. High-end or what?!).

Anyway those are my thoughts. Whatever the case, noone can argue that Gnomon are producing some incredible quality DVDs of unparallelled inspiration and knowledge.

All credit to them.

PS. Alvarez is my 2nd god, under Ed Harriss ;] *Cough* XSI guy int the house hehe

[Paddy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sforsyth
[B]Doesn't that REALLY depend on where you are? I mean, in a lot of countries, that's a LOT of days wages. Besides, add on the $23 international shipping, then add taxes and it starts looking a lot more expensive to people not living in the States.



$23 shipping!!! They must be bulky DVD's. I've just sent 23 magazines to the states from the UK and shipping was 11UKP (about $19) and I'm telling you it was heavy.

$23 is a micky take. I'll be checking eBay.

[andrewley]

I was just about to buy one of these dvds, but when it calculated the shipping cost it came to $116, which I thnk is about £60.

I think thats a bit much for a dvd. Considering its feng I'd be willing to pay £40 including shipping.

Come on Gnomon, lower your prices slightly and watch your sales soar!

[Crazzy Legs]

Just out of curouristy, do you many of you that buy these DVDs also study the masters of the past? Please, don't take it as a sinicle question, I would just like to know.

[alexyork]

interesting question. i do - when i have time. i always try to refer to the masters, especially for anatomy work and sketching. and of course proportion and the number 1 : composition.

i would probably consider alvarez and his team to be modern-day "masters". not in the traditional sense, but certainly they are "masters" of their field.

[TiGER]

i agree with most of what's been said. the prime market for these dvds are current students that are already trying to learn this stuff, so i don't understand why Gnomon priced these dvds so far out of any normal students' price range. i would like nothing more than to buy some of the analog dvds, but not at that price. buying just 2 of the dvds would be almost as much as my rent and bills per month!

[svenip]

Originally posted by mothermachine
I have seen a couple of the old Gnomon videos based on Maya and I must say I could transfer what i'd learnt from those vids into XSI and integrate those techniques easily. they teach concepts, fundamental skills and tips n tricks rather than dead specific maya functions. the concept art ones are also excellent and are completely software-independent.



i wouldn't agree on that 100%. the ones i saw were pretty maya (and function specific). sure you can always adapt that to another package, because most of them use mostly the same kinda concepts. don't get me wrong, gnomon has made some good titles but this whole thread here looks like a shrine for gnomon and we all are praising them.

from my experience some of the alias dvd's give you much more fundamentels and concepts than gnomon.

[alexyork]

TiGER - WHERE are you living?! that's some cheap accommodation you have there. try living in central London for a while. one gnomon DVD would probably cost you about 1/2 week of rent... :cry:

so i guess it's lucky im not living in london right now ;] £27 a week.. hehe. including water! ok enough. still can't afford em tho lol.

[sforsyth]

Yeah Paddy, I couldn't believe it either. $23 seemed excessive, especially when the package came and it was a box barely big enough to fit the DVD in. The package was actually smaller and lighter than anything I get off play.com or amazon.com.
I've sent stuff abroad before too and it never seemed that bad. The only explanation I can give is that the US postal service is getting EXTREMELY well paid.

[alexyork]

svenip - you are probably right there. the ones I have seen were.... organics? i think. those vids showed global techniques for nurbs modelling a head and some FANTASTIC tips on spline referential integrity. i'm only basing what i say on my small experience of the gnomon series, so you are probably right - those Alias videos look very nice too. I just wish there were some equivallent videos for XSI, except Ed Harriss' ones, which are as good if not better quality. I do like the relaxed seminar-like delivery of the Gnomon vids - especially Alex's ones, though.

[svenip]

hey mothermachine.

which xsi videos can you really recommend ? i'm looking more in rendering, charsetup and materials section for something good

[triad]

I've never seen these dvds before, but they look incredibly awesome. I have a question though, are they based mostly on technique so that they would help out users of any 3D program, or are they mostly function based and work with maya only?

[AJE]

Ok, a couple of you have mentioned that these disks give you access to guys in the top of their field... and while I agree, the quality of the DVD's was absolutely never in question.

It seems that the biggest problem, in this thread so far is directly related to pricing.

No matter how good the instruction may be, $100 is still $100 (or for some, a months rent is still a months rent).

And no, the 'sacrifice for what you want' bit doesn't work... students are already stretched to the limit.

I wish someone from Gnomon would stop by and throw us a bone... (30-40% off CGTalk discount anybody???)

[Rogosh]

I have to agree with what some of the others have posted. The price of these dvd's are to high for the market they're ment for.

[TiGER]

Originally posted by mothermachine
TiGER - WHERE are you living?! that's some cheap accommodation you have there. try living in central London for a while. one gnomon DVD would probably cost you about 1/2 week of rent... :cry:

so i guess it's lucky im not living in london right now ;] £27 a week.. hehe. including water! ok enough. still can't afford em tho lol.

i'm finishing my last semester of college, so currently i live in a small town in a small duplex in the central US. i did get my figures wrong though.

for me the Gnomon dvds + shipping are $79.99 (USD) each.
i split the rent and bills with a roommate, so my monthly half of rent and bills is around $250 (USD). car payment is another $250 (USD) per month. cell phone is around $50 (USD). then there's food and various other living expenses.
as a college student living on a tight budget, the Gnomon dvds are WAY out of my price range.

[alexyork]

TiGER - that clears it up ;]

svenip: i bought the Ed Harriss Mastering Rendering and Master Lighting videos. they're EXCELLENT. the teaching style is very formal and detailed and goes through every single detail (forinstance he actually tells you which button he is clicking and shows you on the video). They are great. Highly recommended, as is the Mastering Texturing one, which I have yet to see.

I also highly recommend you visit www.softimage.com - there are some great tutorials on there - the new Siggraph2003 rigging seminar videos are great.

www.softimage.com
www.xsibase.com
www.edharriss.com
www.xsifiles.com
www.xsimple.co.co.uk
http://www.cgbox.com/mikka/rig_vid_tutt.htm
http://www.highend3d.com/xsi/tutorials/

I have checked out most of the tutorials on those sites - to be honest, there are around 30 XSI tutorials all being hosted/linked to on all those sites, so dont expect something different on each one - but they're all great places for XSI tutorials, reference, plugins, shaders and scripts.

[sykosys]

Come on, guys, you can get the analog bundle here:

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/videos/ANA_BLE.html

And you only have to pay $685 USD for 11 DVDs. I nearly dropped a load the first time I saw it! ONly $97 for shipping. They apparently send a gold plated llama to deliver it.

[boboroshi]

Also, think abou tthe amount of money these guys loose on piracy as well. I'd bet for every dvd they sell, they loose 10 copies or so to piracy.

I bought the maya starter set and have been really impressed. I've only had time to get through three of them (still got Texturing I and Rendering I) but they're quality stuff.

It would be nice to have the stuff in tutorials written out step by step, but I can imagine that would be incredibly time consuming for them.

The beneit of these things is that just watching them you pick up some great tricks and tips and how to use things that you might not otherwise learn.

I need a trust fund so I can just buy the whole nine yards at once.

[Torquesmacky]

Those of you who are students and don’t really have the cash for these vids, have you ever thought about talking to someone at your school about getting these for the school? They could use them in classes or even let people check them out for a short period of time? It might be worth a shot in asking. :hmm:

[talos72]

I think the analogue series from Gnomon are a great idea, and they are indeed about stuff you don't get many other places.

That said, I have to also mention that the prices on the DVD are high. I am not sure, maybe it is believed that since these are instructional videos they have to charge higher prices, but $80 is kinda steep.

[boomji]

Originally posted by erilaz
My wallet and I are not going to be on speaking terms after this.:D


my girlfriend and me arent going to be on spaeking terms after this :p :scream: .

b

[onlooker]

This is great stuff, but I'd like to see some more Maya DVD's. Like making a photorealistic human (preferably female) set. I cant keep up with all these concept DVD's. They are coming so fast after one another. I guess there not going anywhere, so I'll have time to go through them all later. :)

[AlexAlvarez]

Hello everyone...

Thanks for all the positive feedback regarding the DVDs. Being able to work with such amazing talents as Feng, Ryan and all the other designers has been an amazing experience, and we look forward to continuing to provide the community with inspiring and educational material.

So, the pricing... I too was a student, but believed then and to this day that spending money on education will pay off in the long run (if you study hard). I went to Art Center, which cost a LOT of money... they are now up to $10,000/term, almost $100k to graduate.

What we are trying to do with the Gnomon Workshop is to provide top quality education, for substantially less money than high-end private schools... but we simply can not charge less than we do at this time.

But the first thing to clear up is how much they actually cost. The main complaint being voiced is that the DVDs are expensive for students. Well, that's why we introduced Academic pricing last year which gives students a 29% discount.

Retail price is $69 (not $80 as mentioned by talos72). For students, the price is $49. If a bundle is purchased, the price drops to $44/each. I think this is quite reasonable... its cheaper than most Xbox/PC/Playstation games that most students seem to have a stack of.

Furthermore, our DVDs are not solely for 'students'. The first person to sit and watch all of Ryan's DVDs, for example, was Feng... cuz he wanted to move on from markers to digital painting. I myself have learned a lot from them, as have artists at scores of studios... aside from students, our customers include studios such as Weta Digital, Sony Imageworks, Nintendo, Microsoft, Electronic Arts, etc...

A good point was made by Torquesmacky, who mentioned that for those straped for cash, it is wise to ask your school to aquire them for the library. We have had orders from several of the Art Institutes locations, Art Center College of Design, an order yesterday from the Academy of Art SF, and so on...

And now on the shipping fees... this has nothing to do with Gnomon. We don't set the prices, UPS does. While I agree that 2nd day shipping can be pricey, the 7-10 day service is substantially cheaper. Also, if you are in LA, you can swing by Gnomon and pick them up and avoid shipping all together. In the future, we will be setting up distribution channels in other cities and countries, to try and lessen the shipping burden on the customer. :)

Please understand that we are not here to rip people off... we're trying to help.

-Alex

[Kid-Mesh]

A.Alvarez Your post was great and that was something I wasnt expecting. I totally understand the reasons behind the price and feel more comfortable with it.

Thanks for making my choice that much easier about purchasing the available materials. It will take some time but its going to make an excellent addition to my library.

-KM

[TiGER]

academic pricing, eh ?

i do believe i could go for that. when, where and how?

edit: will there be new bundles for the Analog section after the new DVDs come out?

[alexyork]

well now, there's me thinking christmas has just passed... yet it seems to have come right back around again. this is great news, and thanks for the info Alex. Now when will you start teaching XSI :beer:

[AJE]

Thanks for the reply Alex. I do appreciate the work that goes into these.

I was unaware of student pricing... 29% off brings it into a much more affordable range (it's the taxes, shipping, and exchange that's killing us... not the inital pricing).

Anyways, thanks for the info.

Cheers,
AJE

[onlooker]

;) oops edited

[triad]

Originally posted by TiGER
academic pricing, eh ?

i do believe i could go for that. when, where and how?


Enter code 'EDU' in the coupon box at the checkout. You will need to send proof of being a student and state id. More info can be found on the main page under the link 'Academic Pricing'

[talos72]

Alex, thanks for the info and the clarification.

[Cyberdigitus]

Analog DVDs

analog? how can a Digital Versatile Disc be analog? :shrug:

[Icarus]

Woot!

I only have the starters pack from Gnomon, But OMFg! it is awsome!. Due to the Great Exchange Rate Iam Currently able to purchase some!, Count me in! -- Also now w/ Acidemic Pricing ITS EVEN BETTER! (hopefully it works :) )

w00t w00t

[MaDSheeP]

Hey Alex

I agree, the dvd’s may be pricey, but I can’t tell you how many school buddies I have that complain about a $12 18x24 pad of drawing paper, but don’t flinch when throwing down $50 for the latest Final Fantasy game… While I am in school, I hope I have a little more to show for my education than a level 99 Tidus ;)

I think that for what you get, those dvd’s are cheap! I bought the Ryan Church DVD’s as soon as they came out, and they are incredible!

I can’t wait to get all the new ones being released…. Bday is coming up in the 23rd... birthday money used for furthering education… my parents would be so proud…

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to Alex and Gnomon… keep up the fantastic work, and thanks for the educational discount, that is a great deal! :)

[Chaosphere]

Hey, I saw on the website that they do offer bundles of the DVDs, however, even the bundles are pricy, and you only have 2 options i believe, Anaolog, and Digital.... I wish they would offer Artist specific bundles..i.e. A bundle of Fengs work, or a bundle of Ryan Churchs work... is there a way to request this, or get a petition going on this, it would be a more convienent way to buy also.... :thumbsup:

[clinko]

I totally agree. Even if it was less savings than the entire Analog set discount, I don't want to end up buying the DVD's that I'm not interested in... especially since more DVD's are coming out in the next few days. Good thinking, Chaosphere!

[AJE]

Or how about a simple 'buy x amount, get one free'
That way, the bundle is a bunch of them that you get to pick.

Just a thought...

Cheers.:)

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