Cel shader tests!! Comments please.

[Grey]

is this the default Cinema cell Shader?

I played a bit with the one in XL6, but never enough to get any kind of results

[sad]

have you ever tried to work with fresnel or nukei in the color channel?

i think it works great. take a look at the models. it is xl6.3 and the normal cel-shader.

http://home.arcor.de/sadbatu/chat/koks-open5-2.jpg

[tkay]

Ooh, aah! Celshading looks awesome! :D

[Grey]

You know, I wonder what that would look like with a relatively high polygon figure... hmmm...

very impressive.

[LucentDreams]

Wow sad youve tweaked that since I last saw a post of it quite a while ago. Looks awesome.

As for the link to the Shades of Cel stuff you can find it right here.

http://forum.bhodinut.com/viewtopic.php?t=292 (sorry the movies are now down.)

and the Presets download is available here,
http://forum.bhodinut.com/viewtopic.php?t=331

Only two morw downloads to make the thousand mark. wow what a self esteem confidence booster that was, haven't checked its progress in quite a while. DOn't eXpect to see SOC 2 out for quite a while, who knows, maybe for XL 8? I don't know all dpends on time, but there are some much better ones in the works, thanks to a few other users for sharing and adding to the package too.

[fxgogo]

Thanks all for the comments. I hope to have some more experiments up this weekend.

Grey: No it is the Cheen shader which I messed with.

Sad: Cool pic, thanks for that I will try that idea out.

Kaiskai: Thanks for the links. I downloaded your presets, and I hope I was the 1000th one. I will have a look at them this weekend.

This is what I like about C4D, well any package really, but I love trying to come up with a solution that is not catered for in the base package. Call it the adventurer in me.

Thanks again guys.

[LucentDreams]

don't know if it was you or someone else, but I got the two extra DL's to make a thousand. YAY:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[tkay]

Grey: hmmmm... ;)

[kiwi]

Hahahaa Kai :D


Hey very nice work guys :thumbsup:



Being a cel newbie,do you still use the same lighting setup etc?



Stu.

[LucentDreams]

depens on what sytem I am usign to achieve the certain shaded effect, by using falloff as you cel colouring, al the tines and highlights are stored in the fall off shader so Lightin is independent of the character, but others need to be lit just like any 3D scene, and sometimes lights are used to create shading effect. Best advice I can give is if you plan on animating with cel shading, better learn how to render held frames and fast. /what made Cat's don't dance and Iron Giant so successful for 3D integration is the use of heldframes, basically not having perfectly smooth animation, but holding something on fours and another secction on two and of course most on ones, but part of the reason disney stuff typically standes out is they are animated too smoothly it seems unnatural.

[fxgogo]

Kaiskai, when you are talking about held frames and cel rendering, are you talking about the movement in the cel shading when the object is not moving?

[LucentDreams]

I am talking about the actual framrate. when animating, even in a disney feature the don'e have 24 drawings every second, some secenes or certain shots they may, but the movies are typically done on what is called ones and twos meaning a combination of 1 drawing every frame and on drawing every two frames, television typically has a syste of two with use of ones only for things like pans to prevent strobing or jerkyness, ans sometimes even go to fours meaning one drawing for four frames. In animae they often will even go as high as eights for TV, though those times are changin as the eastern animators get better and better and technology does too. Anime FEatures are done typically in a combination of 1's 2's and 4's.

even at fours you can get a reasonably smooth motion, and for faster action go to twos, and for really fast action that needs to read, animation on ones is the best there is. When you look at CG though it is just like live action, mening its always on ones unless you shoot at 15 frames a second which would be like shooting on 2's (twelve frames a second.) by mixing this up a bit in your film using the same logic, the cel animation gets this interesting flow to it which makes it feel more like it is classically animated.

[fxgogo]

Thanks for that, but I think you mis-understood me or I mis-understood you. I do know about the frame rates of animation.

I thought you were refering to jiving or crawling in the cel shaders or materials when the objects or scenes are animated.

[LucentDreams]

what I am saying is that in 3D, you typically keep th animation smooth, to make it more convincing as a cel painted carton, render it out at different fram rate so that it is uneven thats all. It has nothing to do with making lines boil when a character or object is still, though this helps if it goes with the style your are doing.

[Caravaggio]

I've been finding that multiple lights with high contrasts pushes back the dark areas, more like the proffesional look.

I've also been using the fresnel in color tests and have been looking for a way to make it so the fall off rate isn't as great. I mean when the plane is more parrallel to the cam the outlines is small, the more perpendicular it is, the thicker, sometimes this makes it so the lines vary too much. Have to figure out how to even them out more...

[LucentDreams]

try fusion using the LEVR mixin method, as I am discovering this is a very pwerful tool

[Grey]

so I started playing with the Fresnel shader in the colour channel just to see... and it was interesting when I slid it down to 50% and mixed with colour.

But I was wondering what other kind of excersizes should I do to get the most out of it?

[LucentDreams]

whatever is the outside line colour can be used to paint polys too. here is a trick, wanna make the eyelid have a constant line around the eyeball or want to have wrinkles in the forehead, rather than trying to piaaint a texture, keep it goin in the same style by seleting the polys that shold be painted and reversing their normals. they automatically become the colour of the outside line. cool eh?

[sad]

that'sa cool trick i'd say.

oh i love cgtalking, it helps improoving the technical skill!

[Grey]

hehe... Kaiskai I think knows a bigger little secret:

you teach, you learn faster :D

[fxgogo]

Right here is an update. This time it is in the context of my scene. I am create a cel styled desrt scene. Again comments are welcome.

[sad]

very very good! please post updates, ok?!

[LucentDreams]

I would look into how to get rid of some of the harsh blacks, I know this is do to the fresnel, perhaps look at naams celshading light rig as that won't encounter the same sort of problems, though it will affect the overall look too.

[fxgogo]

Thanks Sad, I will.

I am umming and arring about the strong black lines. I like the uneven nature of them. I think I will add more into the scene and see how it develops and how the look is affected.

[LucentDreams]

change it to have just a slight hue in it then, if you keep it, too black right now. (still keep it black, but just alittle red and green, say RGB4,4,0 subtle is subtle

[fxgogo]

Will give that a go.

[Grey]

<----think's Adobe products are at the same level as Microsoft Products: Mediocre memory hogs

[fxgogo]

Grey are you posting to the right thread? I think you are working too quickly for youe own good.

[Grey]

ack! Wha' 'appen?

I dunno, must be going senile... :bounce:

[LucentDreams]

gee pulling all nighters here and I m thinking you need sleep, something is wrong with this picture???

[Grey]

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Coffee Anyone :D

[fxgogo]

Forget coffee. I have found the best sleep killer. Toilet cleaner. Just one sip evey 30 mintues keeps the hair off the bravest persons chest.

:scream:

[kiwi]

Originally posted by fxgogo
Forget coffee. I have found the best sleep killer. Toilet cleaner. Just one sip evey 30 mintues keeps the hair off the bravest persons chest.

:scream:



But how do you use your puter if you are in ICU? :D



Stu.

[fxgogo]

HA HA. I have my machine melded to my body. I cant live without it....

[kiwi]

Ya I know the feeling :D


Keep on forgetting to mention cool site you have :thumbsup:



Stu.

[fxgogo]

thanks a lot. It was quite a bit of work, and there was always something that needed tweeking. Actually there still is.

[fxgogo]

Right here is another pic in the series. Not really cel shaded, but I like the mood. What do you think?

[kiwi]

Ya I do like that :) .....almost tells a story with just one frame :)


Stu.

[LucentDreams]

cool and simple really nice effect, thought the composition needs somthing in the right hand lowe side, and such a simple scene shouldn't hurt too much to have some good AA

[fxgogo]

Thanks

Yeah I was messing around with a candle down on the other side, but I didn't like it, any other suggestions. And yeah don't worry about the AA, still got to do final renders and the like.

[LucentDreams]

Using the light against shadow technique of filnoir and the Batman animated series, I would place some drapery , basically a bundle of cloth like rags or soemething there, and hard light from the opposite side (seems wrong and it is but it shoudl work visually to show the object, if not you can always have a light source from the direction of the window, but thenmake it more subtl, but basicaly a pile of fabrics, this way it doesn't attract focus but rather fills the scene.

[fxgogo]

That might work. i was also thinging of some chains and manacles.

[LucentDreams]

Now that I know the context, that may work a little nicer too :) Check out the light motion blur thread for the tornado thing :)

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.