USATODAY:Battle over violent video games heating up

[mastermesh]

18 year olds are the main buyers of violent video games anyways...

[NanoGator]

Seems to me that before cleaning up video games, the gov't should restrict the media instead. "You must show 75% bad news."

[Per-Anders]

that's a dumbass comment.

the media (press, tv, even film) is governed and has a strict set of laws and regulations, there are several government bodies in each country that monitor this stuff, recieve and process press complaints etc and deal out the appropriate measures when the line is stepped over... of course in America you would never know beacuse those standards are so appalingly low.

the games industry on the other hand only has self regulation, and is by and large unnacountable to anyone.

[NanoGator]

Dumb ass comment eh? Let me tell you something, bud: There are people out there that think the world is going to hell in a handbasket because the media focuses on blowing things out of proportion. Everything is unsafe. Everything will kill you. You can't have faith in anything. The world will end. It's not the least bit surprising that there are people who react to that lack of value for what this lovely world has to offer. There aren't, however, any real cases of video games causing this sort of behaviour.

[KolbyJukes]

As long as they keep producing games like Halo, GTA 3, Half-Life 2, and Doom 3 I'm okay. I'm worried that such restrictions will force developers to censor their content in order to make ends meet.

I don't really think kids should play these games, cause it's mature content and isn't great for the impressionable minds of kids. But then if they're going to regulate games so stringently, they should start regulating television and all other forms of media equally hard - cause I can't name the number of times I've turned on a TV at 5 PM only to see people have sex - breasts and ass exposed on a mainstream cable cannel. Or gone to the store and bought an 'explicit lyrics -blah blah blah' cd without anyone so much a winking an eye.

-Kol

[Per-Anders]

Originally posted by NanoGator
Dumb ass comment eh? Let me tell you something, bud: There are people out there that think the world is going to hell in a handbasket because the media focuses on blowing things out of proportion. Everything is unsafe. Everything will kill you. You can't have faith in anything. The world will end. It's not the least bit surprising that there are people who react to that lack of value for what this lovely world has to offer. There aren't, however, any real cases of video games causing this sort of behaviour.

so you in one statement belate the loss of morals and value in the world, and also try and defend something that's arguably responsible and resulatant for those same effects based on the idea that the media is the same?!?! wtf

you're running a disengenious argument here. because one thing is bad it's ok for another thing to be worse? sorry, that again is dumb ass.

i haven't seen many shows that actively encourage participation in acts of depravity. yet all video games involve interaction, and many encourage those sorts of interaction.

admitedly tv & the liberal media is getting worse, especially in america where it does glamourise drugs, sexual promiscuity, guns & violence etc. but to be the spoilt kid that points somewhere else and goes "but they're doing n bad thing... therefore we should be allowed to". that's just ****ed up. especially when you can see, comprehend and understand that what's going on "over there" is a bad thing.

[Shinova]

Bad parenting is a factor they overlook, I would say.

Good parents can teach their kids what's real or what's not. And what not to copy.

[NanoGator]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
so you in one statement belate the loss of morals and value in the world, and also try and defend something that's arguably responsible and resulatant for those same effects based on the idea that the media is the same?!?! wtf



Um no, there is no 'arguably responsible' when talking about bad things as a result of video games. The media, however, has managed to spur violent opinion. LA's riots several years ago come to mind...

'because one thing is bad it's ok for another thing to be worse? sorry, that again is dumb ass.'

That's not even close to what I was saying. Allow me to clarify: There's no proof that violent video games are causing problems, there is proof that the media is causing problems. Fix the media.

""but they're doing n bad thing... therefore we should be allowed to". that's just ****ed up. especially when you can see, comprehend and understand that what's going on "over there" is a bad thing."

Yep, you're right. All of the video 'games cause violence' stories I've read so far were to this tune. "Uh.. I shot at that car because you can in Vice City, even though the game depicts people dying when you do that, I didn't know it was wrong." The media doesn't play nicely here either. Not only do they soak up these stories and broadcast them to the tune "Your kids will become murderers!" , yet they never publish the other side of it. Odd. Another example: If you meet people online, you could get raped! But the media never seems to cover the love stories that have developed from on-line meeting. Message? "Go online and you could be hurt!"

Anyway I think we have some common ground here. There's the root problem of doing stuff when you know better, and trying to blame the wrong place in order to wriggle out of it. My point is that erasing game violence won't improve things much if at all. It isn't the cause of the problems we see today. The sources are elsewhere. I personally think it's the media. I could easily be wrong, but after watching CNN a lot over the last year, it'll take some convincing for me.

[Per-Anders]

ok, agreed yes people do something wrong then try and put blame elsewhere. however i disagree that there is no link between violence and video games. video games and the media both should have accountability for their content and market.

[EricUNSL]

The U.S needs a scapegoat for the problems parents are having with today's children. Blaming it on drugs, alcohol, the environment in which they live, parental neglect and the arsenal that the parents have "locked away" in the basement isn't enough. If parents spent more time with their children and were more aware of where they are and what they are doing there would be no problems.

You need only turn on the news or open a history book to see where some of this game content is coming from. Some of these games are not making this stuff up. Real life is the ultimate source of reference. We live in a world where people blow themselves up on a weekly basis. Where a man can be shot 41 times for having nothing more than a wallet in his hand. We are a violent species who will ultimately either kill each other to extinction or learn to live in peace. It starts at home. If children are taught early on the difference between right and wrong, the imagery they are subjected to later in life won't cause them to go out and do anything stupid. Racist Gun wielding parents have more of an effect on a child's development than any video game or movie ever will.

[Nicodemus]

Originally posted by Shinova
Bad parenting is a factor they overlook, I would say.

Good parents can teach their kids what's real or what's not. And what not to copy.

Thank you......I have had this argument with my wife more times than I care to count. It just seems that these lawsuits keep being brought by parents of kids who have done something. Quite remniscient of lawsuits being broguht against Recording artists because somebody had their album and went out and shot someone or took their own life.

Parents need to take a more active role in what there kids are playing. I buy games for my 6 year old nephew all the time....but I read the box and look into the content and rating of a game before making the purchase. I have seen so many parents walk in and buy a game for their child without doing more than galncing at the box cover. That is not going to tell you much about a game. The same kind of uproar went on when Mortal Kombat was going to be brought to home systems. They instituted ratings systems to help parents know what they are dealing with. So to turn around and want to sue after the fact just comes of a bit wrong to me.

You don't think your kid should be playing really violent games...dont buy them. Check to see what games they do have since you can trade them in and even borrow a friends. Kids will find a way to get the games. Hell, I know my mother would not have wanted her son looking at playboy/penthouse magazines. But guess what....had a few hidden that I got from a friend who got it from his older brother who took it from his cousin. See there are ways around anything. So right or wrong....it is up to the parents to take a more active role in monitoring what comes into their home before it is in their homw.....not after little billy has gone on a shooting spree.

~L~

PS....Just had another thought after reading the post above mine....Post 9/11 there was more gruesome horrific stuff on TV pretty much 24/7 than I have seen in alot of video games. Wether violence is real or imagined parents have to take a very active role in helping filter or explain these things to their children.

Of course I say this not being a parent....so parents out there please feel free to flame me if necessary.

[NanoGator]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
however i disagree that there is no link between violence and video games.

The problem I have with this general belief is that video games have been around for what, 20 years? They've grown increasingly popular, but violence amongst kids has not increased at anywhere near the same rate. I've yet to hear an explanation for this anomoly. (Actually it's avoided like the plague.)

I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I'm not defending games beause I like them. Instead, it's just not been scientifically proven in any sense. So while they're busy trying to bug games about it, they're not searching for the real cause. It doesn't help that every new thing a generation picks up is deemed bad. Rock n Roll, for example.

[Nicodemus]

Exactly.....It was Rock and Roll at one point. Then it was Rap. At different points certain books have been accused of being the reason for deviant behavior.

Of course these things can have an affect on us....but to point to them as being the reason someone does something that extreme is simplifying matters.

~L~

[Ibox]

violence begets violence...period.... whether condoned by governments, hockey leagues, and or yes, even those little v games...

as for the twenty year thing...twenty years ago the graphics were not the same... so the twenty year theory is somewhat silly...

and for the sake of argument here, let us suppose that the number of violent situations between kids was on the decline, I would believe that this is largely due to the freedom restrictions placed on said children, by thier/us parents, because the level of violence in the situations that do occur is much more elevated than was the case when us parents were growing up...

[F3EF73]

Video games ARE a form of media. Just like movies, television, radio, newspapers, etc.

[NanoGator]

Yeah if you want to really really oversimplify it. Come to think of it, we're all just organic pain collectors.

[DiNKArt]

I think it is funny when the media does a story on a "bad kid" and they talk about the fact he plays video games and that it my contributed to his bad ways. I don't think alot of people in the media and older people in general relize howmany kids actually play video games. If GTA3 corrupted kids so easily then kids all accross the country would be doing bad things. I don't think people relize that the kid that gets all A's or helps out the elderly also plays games.

My favorite comment was by a reporter on the 700 Club. (The 700 Club is a Christian organization with a "news" tv show.) A reporter was talking about violence in video games and how it was the devils work. He ended by saying the kids that went through there high school at Colimbin practiced head shots playing video games. I think the game they like was doom. A week later a video was relesed to the press showing the kids practing how to shot not in a video game but in real life. They where in the woods shoting at stuff like cans and glasse bottles.

If they do place restrictions on video games they should not exceed the restrictions on movies.

[Silvermyst]

I'm amazed to see people say that television isn't censored enough (unless I read all the posts wrong). My recent experience with american television, over the christmas break, and involved movies like Alien Ressurection being cut down by about 15 minutes, bleeped, and blurred like crazy. This being a movie that focuses on people shooting aliens who eat people, I don't see the point in showing a movie like this if you're going to deny what the basic principles of the movie are about. It was also being shown at a reasonably mature timeslot of 10pm.

That's just an example, I also noticed that even at like 3am, people weren't allowed to say words like "damn" when conjuncted with "god".
It seems to me that the only thing on TV that isn't being censored enough is violence. Another example of watching Starship Troopers at 6pm comes to mind, where none of the gore was censored, yet they removed the entire shower room scene, purely because people were naked, nothing sexual at all.

I guess my beef is that trivial things are being more heavily censored then what I consider to be much more psychologically damaging imagery.

[vfx fan]

Did it ever occur to these politicians that violence in society is caused by bad parenting and/or getting picked on in school? I mean, video game retailers DO card minors or anyone who looks under 18. It's the parents who buy kids these games like "GTA" and don't know what they're playing, or don't care.

I don't think they'll get rid of any violent video games and movies anytime soon. They haven't outlawed cigarettes because the gov't gets tax money off of them. Same thing will probably hold true with video games.

Though on the other hand, it could be the same deal as firecrackers. They'll sell video games legally, but you'll get fined for playing them. America would get a lot more money from that.

[elam]

Here's an interesting thought:

What happens when video games get so realistic, you can't tell the difference between it and real life. It's not that far off. Then, I think, it does become a problem.
If you have someone playing life like violent video games 8 hours a day, its going to have an effect. That being said, how many normal, welll adjusted people could do that for that long. Not many I think.

I agree w/all the parenting comments though. If parents aren't responsible enough to know what their kids are playing, they shouldn't let them be playing games, period. It also says something about a society that produces such games.. Is this the best we can do? Will we 'create' anything to make a buck?

[NanoGator]

Originally posted by elam
Here's an interesting thought:

What happens when video games get so realistic, you can't tell the difference between it and real life. It's not that far off. Then, I think, it does become a problem.


Well if that was the key ingredient, then why hasn't anybody correlated the release of RoboCop with an increase in violence?

Now, if we had holodeck technology, then I'd start to be concerned about violence in games like that. Why? Because to fight in something like that, you really have to throw your fist at it, and really get your adrenaline going. I think we could start to see problems in that respect. Why? Well I'm thinking about my childhood when one of my neighbors pulled out a gun and started firing into the nearby woods. He was having flashbacks to Vientnam. What if a video game managed to portray that sort of tragedy?

In any case, pushing a button doesn't exactly open up that primal urge in anybody.

[Digimatrix]

I think that we have to teach ourselves how to 'disconnect' from media, evaluate it, take note of the source. We have to teach our children to do the same.
It is amazing how much our society gets caught up in sensationalism.... view or die.
"And on the six o'clock news...the fear of every parent has come to light in a local neighborhood..."
What is it? Could your loved ones be next?

This whole video games thing is going to look rather silly a hundred years from now. I just think we need to teach our children the difference, and teach them how to unplug.


-Heather

[elam]

Well if that was the key ingredient, then why hasn't anybody correlated the release of RoboCop with an increase in violence?

I'm confused. Are you talking about the movie? What does that have to do with what I said?

[pogonip]

Why do video games get so much attention...the internet is a 1000 times worse ...anything from horrific violence to animal porn right at your finger tips if so inclined ...yet the internet gets little mass media attention compared to games :hmm:

[Boone]

I once went into a retailer once and overheard a conversation...

Parent: "This game here - is it suitable for my children?"

Sales Assistant: "Oh - 'Doom'! Yeah, of course."

Parent: "Oh, wait a minute - it has a 15 cert on the back! I don't think I should buy it..."

Sales Assistant: "Oh, don't worry - its got rather low-res graphics. Your kids will laugh at it...don't worry - its a suitable game..."

Parent: "Are you sure? They're 11 & 9 years old..."

Sales Assistant: "Yeah..."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the retailers need a swift kick up the backside...:rolleyes:

[hairy_llama]

Why do games get so much attention?
Because they effect you a lot more then TV or the internet because you are making the character in the game do what you want. I love violent games and know other people who do as well. But it is simply STUPID to think they do not effect you. Both me and everyone else I know who plays violent games to much starts acting out like they are in the game in REAL LIFE.

Thats when I know I have been playing to much and take a break for a couple of weeks.

For example my friend (after plalying many hours of GTA) says when he gets in his car he starts to automaticaly step on it and when he sees a pedestrian crossing the street his response is to allmost step on the gas and murder the inocent person. Like GTA.

I certainly can see someone on drugs who is angry and depressed playing GTA all day and then going out and murdering inocent people.

I actually like games like quake3 better because you are killing weird creatures and using very "unreal" guns and therefore it does not start taking over your head.

You might just say that my friends and I are stupid if we get effected by these violent games but I can bet they are doing the same thing to everyone else but they either don't notice or push it all away.

Anyone who compares news to GTA is from another planet :)

"Why do video games get so much attention...the internet is a 1000 times worse ...anything from horrific violence to animal porn right at your finger tips if so inclined ...yet the internet gets little mass media attention compared to games "

I bet you there are a lot more people playing violent video games than there are people looking for horrific violence on the internet. Everyone I know has or does play violent video games but none search out that kind of thing on hte internet.

[NanoGator]

Originally posted by elam
Well if that was the key ingredient, then why hasn't anybody correlated the release of RoboCop with an increase in violence?

I'm confused. Are you talking about the movie? What does that have to do with what I said?

Yes, the movie. What does it have to do with what you said? Robocop has some of the most graphic portrayals of gunbattles I personally have ever seen. So violent that I never ever wanted anything to do with gangs. (Not that they were a big issue where I lived, but I was scared straight.)

If realistic violence is what makes a game turn a kid into being violent, then in theory, Robocop should have done the same. It was a *very* popular movie.

[Boone]

As far as I'm concerned - violent material that has an age restriction should not be sold to those who are younger than the cert given.

I see it happen all too often...:rolleyes:

[elam]

Robocop has some of the most graphic portrayals of gunbattles I personally have ever seen.

You're joking right? There are movies far worse than Robocop. Seen any Quentin Tarintino movies?

And that still doesn't address my point. It's not about realistic violence per se'. It's also about an interactive, immersive environment indistinguishable from reality. Of course, its all speculation at this point, because we aren't there yet.

[Locutus]

Bottom line.....it is the parent's resposibility FIRST!!
Too many parents allow their children to play games, surf the internet, watch TV, etc unsupervised by allowing them to have these items in their bedrooms. Then IF (and that's a big IF) little Timmy does something bad, these same parents immediately attack these forms of media saying that they corrupted their child. What's never reported is: a). The parents irresponsiblity and
b). The fact that these kids had real problems that led up to their "violent event" that had nothing to do with media.

AS a parent, I agree that some game content should not be accessible by children, but not because I think it'll turn a normal kid into a murderer, but because that kind of imagery can a little too scary for a young mind. I personally enjoy violent video games, but I do not allow my children access to them.
Oh, and I have yet to have an urge to murder anyone.

If you really think about it, video game violence really isn't much worse than what kids see when parents take them to R-rated movies, allow them to watch adult themed TV shows, watch the news, listen to adult themed music, allow unsupervised internet access, or watch R-rated performances at the Super Bowl half time.

All of this crap about violence in video games is stupid and pathetic and it dodges the real issues.
If parents really want to do something then they need to stop letting video games, TV, and internet babysit their kids and take an ACTIVE roll in raising them.

[Breinmeester]

I had been playing GTA Vice City for some days a while back. When I walked down the street and saw an empty police car my first reacting was to quickly get in it and race off. I can imagine that a kid can be influenced by such a game, maybe go joyriding or something... But why is this kid playing the game in the first place??

Most violent video games are aimed at an audience from 16 to 30, simply because these targetgroups play a lot of these games. These games aren't even made for kids, they shouldn't be sold to kids and they most certainly shouldn't be bought by parents!!

If you're a parent and you think these games are an outrage ask yourself this: at dinner time are you listening to how your kid's day was or staring at the tv?? Most of these parents that have violent kids blame it on films and games and say that their child is not the violent type. Untill they discover that he's been terrorizing the neighbourhood. They simply don't know what's going on in their kids' lives.

I live in Holland. Strong words are never censored on tv here, neither is nudity, soft drugs and prostitution are legal, we sell a lot of violent video games, violent films are big hits. Yet violent acts involving kids are a rarity here, we have less drugs addicts than the USA and less sex crimes. If I hear another story of an 11 year old kid that shot one of his classmates I ask myself: "How on earth did an 11 year old kid get a gun?? What parent would ever let that happen??"

Parents of America, stop letting the media put wors in your mouths and think for yourselves for a chance. And care about your kids for God's sake!!

[Per-Anders]

hmm... what are you basing this on?

also please do compare the crime rates to the surrounding countries, and on a per capita basis please.

america v netherlands using most recent interpol data :

US total criminal infractions per thousand = 42 (41.605)
Netherlands total criminal infractions per thousand = 78 (78.076)

for all the arguments for "leniency" and "prgressive attitudes" or "softly softly approaches" all i've seen is failures. crime under the softly softly approach in the UK has rocketed. crimeunder zero tolerance in combination with urban renewal in new york fell dramatically.

for all peoples arguments that "it's the parents fault" well yes, parents are a part of society and they should play their part, but society isn't just individuals, it's individuals governed for a common good and goal. rules for maintaining society and stopping everything from falling into anarchy where there is no society. it's every single persons fault that let that kid play that game when the law has already stated what is and what is not acceptable. every friend of that kid's who got them to play it, every parent that bought it for the kid and didn't watch what they were playing, every store that sold this game to those that shouldn't have got it, every distributor that didn't reprimand those sellers when that happened, the government for not enforcing this ban, the media for sensationalising the game and the child themselves for playing the game, the publisher for making that game in the first place.

there is no single place to point the blame, but a whole chain, and even then it's no sure fire thing. because a child who's well adjusted in the first place is unlikely to feel the urge to go joy riding or any of the rest of it, and the reason a child is maladjusted is so complex and so deep that there are professors around the world making it their lives work to solve the conundrums of delinquency and none seem to have worked it out yet.

imo it is not a bad thing if games are censored and sales controlled with regards access by minors. they should be just like any other media, in fact more so because of their interactive element. treat a game with mature content as you would a movie with mature content. how bad is that? why is it a limitation of your civil liberties to stop children gaining access to that? hell as people are keen to point out it's the lamentable parenting that's allowing it... well, if the parents wont do anything, then someone else has to.

[elam]

Yet violent acts involving kids are a rarity here, we have less drugs addicts than the USA and less sex crimes

That's a unsubstantiated statement. You got proof?

[betelgeuse]

Not pointing to anyone in particular, but I always chuckle when I see that someone puts forth BOTH of these views:

1. I think graphically violent video games have little or no deleterious effects on kids.

AND

2. Bad parenting is to blame. Parents need to teach their kids how digest this stuff in a mature manner, or regulate what they can or cannot play.

If proposition 1 is true, then proposition 2 makes no sense.

[Breinmeester]

My remark on the crime rates were based on a programme I saw on tv the other day. It stated that non organised crime related murders, sex crimes and drug addiction was lower in Holland than America. It also stated smaller crimes were reported more often and said that that might be because Dutch people might sooner report crime. Holland has a relatively high drug smuggling rate because it's the portal to Europe and the world's largest xtc producing country. That's all I can remember on what the programme said.

Games are rated right now. What more do you want?? It clearly says 'Not Suitable For Childeren' because it wasn't created for childeren. When I was a kid there were a bunch of tv programmes I wasn't allowed to watch and that wasn't something uncommon. It just is the responsibillity of the parents. It is okay for a government to expect its citizens have some common sense. They already have been warned.

but society isn't just individuals, it's individuals governed for a common good and goal. rules for maintaining society and stopping everything from falling into anarchy where there is no society.

I think the anarchy statement is a bit farfetched. It is just as ridiculious as I would counter state that censorship leads to dictatorship.

Apart from the discussion wether games should be censored even more (doesn't really matter to me, we don't do censorship where I live anyways) there is the discussion wether games are responsible for child crimes. In my opinion it's really ludricous and naive to blame games for these crimes. Censoring games is not going to stop these child crimes. It's nice to have a scapegoat, but it isn't going to solve the problem. I don't have the answer, and there isn't even an easy answer, because it's just too complex for that, but some attention for what's on your child's mind and not allowing any firearms in your house might help.

[mrZack]

my younger brother and i play violent video games all the time and we havn't killed anybody....yet....

Long live violence in video games!!!!

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