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Windex
01-28-2004, 04:01 AM
hey hey
i see all diz beautiful paintings in the 2d section and there are NO LINES, i mean how can you draw something and have NO lines, do they use a filter at the end??? do they blur it?? i dont' think so...
what is the secret, how do ppl get the colors to mix...

help :cry:

bumskee
01-28-2004, 06:17 AM
yes there is a filter!! it's called "paintlookalike", I am suprised you have never heard of this.....

JUST kidding, :p

look, it's no mystery, it's result of practice after practice. it might start with a line but at the end there is none, because you knwo why??? lines don't exist in real life, well at least the ones we see here as "line drawings". it's an edge of an object which we simplify to represent as a line. so all those beautiful paintings are done simply to mimick the nature. in terms of techniques at least. of course there is more to it then meets the eye.

there is no colour mixing as we know in photoshop. we can get close to this concept with using semi transparent strokes, but again you would have to understand colour for this to work. and you will know after tonnes of practice. there is no secret.

so instead of looking for short cuts, why not start practicing. coz you will find none.

good luck!!

:p

ASCIISkull
01-29-2004, 11:46 PM
First of all, you usually start with the lines on a seperate layer above the colors work. You can lock the line's transparency and just color the lines to blend in more, and then use the smudge tool to blend the lines into the colors below- you generally only blend on one side of the line, so you keep the edge without it looking like a line.

Of course, if you're painting digitally, you can often not use lines at all...

Windex
01-30-2004, 12:50 AM
tnx

but someone told me "i NEVER use the smudge tool" and i know that is not a rule, and what works for you might not work for me.
but i meant the COLORS, when you color something, there are no lines. i'm not talking about the outline of something. (or the outer line)
when you paint something, do you use Dodge and Burn for shading???? i dont' think that is a good way and ppl don't do that cuz it doesn't look that professional at all, what do they do?
then don't blur it either cuz it...well looks blury and not nice.
i wish i could post pictures, but i'm not at my computer right now.

take ANY picture from the 2d CGtalk gallery, that used Photoshop.
how do they NOT end up with... i mean how is it that you can't see what kind of brush they used or even see a line withing the painting, all the colors have been mixed so well together...
i know practice makes perfect, but if you don't have something or somewhere to start with then that is kinda hard...
so i just bought "Pulp Fiction: Collector's Edition" and watched it instead of working on my project/s...
is there hope for me???
i'll post something in this section to give you guys an idea in a couple of days, i didn't know i was THAT bad, i thought i was a better artist but apparently NOT....
anyways... later:hmm:

bumskee
01-30-2004, 02:18 AM
geeeze man, lighten up will ya? :p

ok, I am much certain those listed in 2d section hardly use doge and burn tool for shading, it tends to make things muddy. blurring and smudging people might use right at the end to polish their work. But mostly all done manually. I mean they pick the colours and let it blend in. that's prolly why you are not seeing any lines.
If you have the opportunies to look really close, you will know what I mean..

yes once I get home I will post some examples to show you in detail how I would go on about painting. the painting tuts online don't really explain well how you would go on about it, that's because there isn't much to explain. But instead they outline how each artist tackle the whole issue in general, as to guide people. I doubt you will find any tuts that you are looking for with all the answers. you have to experiment yourself to find out what suits you best.

did you have paint with oil paints? or acrylic?? or pastel?? I am sure you would have it's much like that. there really is no trick. just paint. just go and paint a cup or something, and use BIG fat hard edge brush at around 40~60 opacity. train your eye to spot the colours from nature and you are set. just use one brush and if you make a mistake don't erase it just paint over it. paint everything in one layer. after few of those cups you will figure out how YOU should go on about ps painting.

good luck

DreiGrasheir
01-30-2004, 05:52 AM
i really don't know if this is how they do it on those murals, but this is the way I and most painters do it for games characters:

First, create the shape of you want with thin black lines (like, say, an apple.)

Next step is to, on a new layer, paint in solid color the basic colors of what you want where, but make the color as bright as the brightest pary of your work will be (you can always go back and change this later) in the apple case it would be a bright red or green, with a darker brown for the stem.

After that, create another new layer, and put it on top of that solid color, and fill the entire layer in with a 50% grey. if you want a lighter picture, use lighter grey, or for a darker picture use a darker grey. Now lower the opacity of that layer to about 90% so you can see the color layer below it, and use dodge and burn on the grey layer to show volume or large texture.

Once you've gotten a decent amount of that done, kick the grey layer's opacity up a few notches (BAM!) to 100%, and go to that drop down menu on the layer box that says 'normal'. these are called 'blending modes'. With the grey layer selected, change the blending mode to multiply, and viola! instead of making nasty black and white shades of the color, it makes higher and lower brightness values of said color. Try out all the blending modes to pick one of your liking. From there, with the grey layer still selected, add more detail to it and give it some more shape. for our apple freind you would want a highlight spot on the front somewhere (decide early on where you want your imaginary light source to be) and have it slowly fade to darker around the back of the apple.

once that's done, you need to add some texture to it to break up the flatness of the color. to do this, create a new layer and create a pattern that looks like the material youre trying to make (or use a desaturated photo of it) and blend it into your grey layer with the mode of your choice. For the apple, you notice how the skin is all splotchy, and not just a solid color?

Finally on another layer, add some dirt, muck, dust, and whatever to it so it doesn't look too perfect. perfect makes your stuff look conspicuous.

well i hope that helps... as i said before thats how I do it in games, i don't know how those insanely talented guys do it. Here is a visual reference having absolutley nothing to do with apples, because im quite sick of talking about them. :P

http://www.3dgstudios.com/images/texTut.jpg

bumskee
01-30-2004, 12:16 PM
hey look!! I found my first digital painting, which I did about, hmmp say two years ago?? something like that...

see, how crap this is!!!! I think I was inspired by this tut I read, dodge and burn tool, the author was very skilled with it, obviously I wasn't. yeah it's almost primary school level, but you know what?? I am glad I didn't chuck that out. At least I knwo where I started from. maybe let me go and find that example I was talking about earlier.

bumskee
01-30-2004, 12:36 PM
ok, here's an example.

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~min/temp/anchor_1_8.jpg

this one is zoomed out. right? (the painting never got finished because the project got pulled, the sky is almost finished though)

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~min/temp/anchor_1_100.jpg

this is zoomed to 100% where that rectangle is. You can see the stokes and crap right?? hard edged brush strokes and soft brush edge strokes used to blend edges.

well there you go. hopefully this clears out somethings for you, as you can see in my previous post, how lost I was! with dodge and burn tool, unless you are really good with it. So after much practice I think I found myself the style that seems to suit me. But even this will change in the future as I progress further.

so practice! is the only way!~, just go and paint that damn cup.

:p

dg
01-30-2004, 04:03 PM
Nice sky bumskee :thumbsup:

batavia
01-31-2004, 07:22 PM
Hey Windex, post your pic so I know what you mean exactly.
Anyways...do professionals rarely use the smudge tool? I find that impossible, because when I paint I use 100% pressure to push colors around. And to mix subtle colors I use 50-75% pressure. I try not to overdo it with the smudge tool, but is it considered bad to use??

SpaceTik
02-02-2004, 04:28 AM
no rules in any digital or non digital medium buddy, just the results that count.

bumskee
02-02-2004, 05:09 AM
thanx diogo! wish I get time to finish it..but I think i lost the refernce pic, so might have to start guessing.

I don't think it's bad using a smudge tool , why would it be bad?? it's just smudge, dodge and burn tool requires much skill and frankly I (in my opinion) you are better off practicing other methods than trying to master those tools. I simply didn't use smudge tool because my computer crawls when I use fat smudge brush.

so much easier with just brush, I hardly use an eraaser too. But that's just me, like I said I think I am quite close to finding my style. You just gotta find a style that suits you. Lots of people use smudge tool they do great paintings.

dg
02-02-2004, 09:28 PM
Guessing is cool man, I bet you will be fine.

Keep it up!!!

Cheers,
dg

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