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View Full Version : Voting Started for the Alienware Challenge


leigh
01-27-2004, 12:13 AM
After three months of tremendous effort from the hundreds of artists that entered as well as a day of frantic last minute submissions and panicking about whether or not images have been received, the highly successful Alienware Challenge has finally come to an end, and the public voting has opened.

Please go to The Voting Site (http://cgnetworks.com/alienware/entries.php) to place your vote. Please be aware that you have to be a CGTalk member, and you need to be logged in, in order to place your votes. All members may vote once per image.

The public voting will continue until Midnight (GMT), February 3 2004, after which the top 50% of the public votes will proceed to a private panel of judges from Alienware and CGTalk.

The winner of the challenge will win an awesome Alienware MJ-12 DCC Workstation, while runners up will receive some fabulous prizes as well.

Get your votes in now!

If you wish to comment on the challenge as a whole, or would like to send any wishes out to any of the participating artists, please feel free to contribute in the Alienware Artists Thread on CGTalk (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117234).

VERY IMPORTANT

If you have a query about your entry, PLEASE send it to robert@ballisticmedia.net, and not me - I cannot do anything to help you.

If your entry does NOT appear on the voting pages, it is because you did not submit enough milestones to qualify for entry. The rules stated that artists had to submit all seven of the required milestones to qualify. We did, however, decide to allow people who submitted only 6 milestones, because we were in a nice mood.

Gyan
01-27-2004, 12:28 AM
I realize it might be a moot point, but I would suggest hiding the scores and user(names).

The problem with showing scores is that those with higher scores get shown first to voters and that kinda feeds a vicious cycle where the high scorers continue getting more votes due to early exposure.

Removing the usernames is recommended as well, but is not as important.

swadepgh
01-27-2004, 12:38 AM
I think that is a good idea too, however, I think that the contest facilitators probably spent some time setting this up and may not be up for modifying it so soon, and after the contest has started. It would be ideal that everything could be on one page but there are just too many entries for that. :shrug:

EDIT: I spoke too soon. Those mods are quick to repond. Thanks guys! :)

Recursive
01-27-2004, 12:41 AM
perhaps displaying them in random order would be better?

then after you have voted you could see how many votes they have.

Tellerve
01-27-2004, 12:50 AM
also what was annoying about the votes changing the sequence of the images, so while I was looking at them I would click on one, read about it and then try for the next. But the one that "was" next wasn't anymore. LOL So yeah, i dunno, but I found one that I think hit the nail on the head for what Alienware wanted.

Tellerve

Virum
01-27-2004, 12:51 AM
Slow pokes. I found out it was open before the plug and spent nearly 2 hours narrowing my vote down to one entry...only to find I could vote for more than one image.....

leigh
01-27-2004, 12:59 AM
Okay, we've removed the visibility of the scores from the interface, so you guys shouldn't be able to see them anymore...

rickycox
01-27-2004, 12:59 AM
Excellent, looks great :thumbsup:

I think it was better though when you could see the score. It makes it more interesting to follow. As with any other form of sport. Imaging watching a football match and not knowing the score until after the game :)

Kirt
01-27-2004, 01:05 AM
Hmmm ... I can still see the votes.

And interesting way to total votes. Either you like it or you don't? I was expecting the 1-5 rating to pop up after clicking the vote button. I was suprised to find out that I voted a "yeah" on the image by just clicking the button.

aesir
01-27-2004, 01:06 AM
I didnt even enter, but I've gotta say that I feel really sorry for the people who are in page 6 7 or 8. Any of the later pages in fact. I will almost garuntee that someone on one of the first pages will win. Theres so many pictures to look through.
Maybe you could shuffle the placements of the pictures

leigh
01-27-2004, 01:10 AM
Kirt, the mods can still see the votes ;)

As for the people on the last page or so, I don't think it is an issue. In challenges we ran in the past, we had a different page layout that meant that it sometimes had 15 or more pages, and people on those last pages still got votes.

Kirt
01-27-2004, 01:15 AM
Ah! Never-you-mind then ... :D

Carry on ... nothing to see here.

WhiteRabbitObj
01-27-2004, 01:19 AM
Unfortunately, you can still sort by score, so the folks at the top of the voting scale are still getting the most attention. I agree that this is kind of unfair. I hope it can get changed, I didn't even enter, but I think everyone who did should be given a fair shot!

halo
01-27-2004, 01:23 AM
yeh i agree...by default their listed by score...and i can see the scores...perhaps its after i've voted...but viewing by score will skew the lazier voters.

halo
01-27-2004, 01:25 AM
also, i saw 217 votes by 85 users on one....i vote per user...? if so, that doesnt seem to make sense to me, ie it indicates somethings gone skewiff

EDIT: dont worry, its total votes of the whole comp...doh !

Zappa
01-27-2004, 01:27 AM
Hey!Leigh,
Great job again, its amazing to me how all of you guys sittin in diffrent countries and continents can put together such a great contest...its almost like you were workin out of one office :D
Keep up the great work.
Cheers:beer:
Zappa

Mibus
01-27-2004, 01:36 AM
You get one vote *per image*. So if you really like ten images, you vote ten times.

We've set the default sort order to be CGTalk username now, instead of score.

We're working on making sure regular users can't see the scores, give us a few more minutes ;-)

Thanks for the feedback folks.

kjc
01-27-2004, 02:35 AM
Hi guys, just noticed you have different dates down for the end of voting.

"The public voting will continue until Midnight (GMT), January 27 2004, after which the top 50% of the public votes will proceed to a private panel of judges from Alienware and CGTalk." on CGNetworks link.

and this one CGTalk "The public voting will continue until Midnight (GMT), February 3 2004, after which the top 50% of the public votes will proceed to a private panel of judges from Alienware and CGTalk."

I assume its the latter?

DragonAngel
01-27-2004, 02:47 AM
Is it me or there are some entries missing?

Have the final image been pre-selected before the public vote?

leigh
01-27-2004, 02:59 AM
OOps you're right kjc! I forgot to edit the CGNetworks release :blush: It should say Feb 3 ;)

Dragonangel - not all the entries were qualified, since you had to submit at LEAST 6 milestones to be considered for final judging.

matty2x4
01-27-2004, 06:25 AM
would anyone be able to tell me why mine aint there??
Just interested to know, hope I didnt almost kill my computer for nuttin.
thanks
Matty2x4

Mibus
01-27-2004, 06:34 AM
matty2x4: According to our records, not enough milestones were completed (you submitted 4 of 7). You had to submit at least six to compete (the original requirement was seven, but Leigh and I dropped it to six).

People can check their own reasons here:
http://cgnetworks.com/alienware/final_image.php

There are three main requirements:
- Submitted TIFF
- 6 or 7 milestones
- A "Final Image" milestone (counts towards the 7).

It should tell you when you're missing one or more of those.

For the next challenge we'll try to have this sort of info available to you alot sooner.

Ultragames
01-27-2004, 06:56 AM
Its probably much to late. But i think it would be ideal, to not see the scores at all. Then to have some kinda of a "Done voting" button, and stops you from voting anymore, THEN show them by score. Preferably in an index form. But like i said. Im a programer my self, that is quite a big change and adds some risk.

My 2 cents.

matty2x4
01-27-2004, 06:57 AM
AWWW CRAP!!!
It dosent appear to say what ones I missed, hey where was this page hideing?? If I had have seen my milestone lacking put so clearly before today I sure would have done somthing about it.
Oh well never mind... what a waste of rendering time I supose
Thanks
Matty2x4

Denb
01-27-2004, 07:35 AM
Wow. So many images to vote for.
My boss won't like this. ;)

hesido
01-27-2004, 10:12 AM
Hi,

I totally agree with being able to see score or sort by score hurts the contest.

I do not want to sound like a know-it-all guy, but before the following changes are made, no contest would have a strong basis:

The voter shouldn't be let sort by anything, and the pics should always come random. I mean always !

There should be a page with/without thumbnails containing all entries for quick access for users who knows about a specific image that s/he wants to vote for.

Right now, a user with the name Zennaciloco (made it up :) ) with an image called Zeno Of Elea would not get many "impressions" with the current method.


Someone can come up and say: "if you are taking it so seriously, then just browse thru all images" Well I try to do.. But not everyone could / would.

Just to be fair, you have to arrange it that way, and I believe it is utterly important for contests.

Btw, I have not participated in any challenges including this one and as you see my username isn't Zennaciloco :)

Mananetwork
01-27-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by green86
perhaps displaying them in random order would be better?

then after you have voted you could see how many votes they have.

I agree!!
I would take out the score and make it random (hit f5 and a new picture comes up). First thing I did when i entered the site was click on score. What I also did was checkout the first 3 pages.. then didn't bother to look at the rest.

kniffo
01-27-2004, 11:39 AM
I _really_ like that contest! It shows the way from milestone to milestone and the development from the idea to the picture.
Its nice to be able to compare the different ways, the people went to get reach the goal...

Inspiring !

NicoDN
01-27-2004, 11:39 AM
I'm happy to see the results of this challenge ! :bounce:
Theses pages contains a lot of great pictures, it's impossible to choose just one and vote for him... my choice was for at least 5 or 6 pictures... :)

I hope that a bad classment on the pages ( for pictures on the pages 7 or 8 won't handicap people who done it. :hmm: It's long too whatch all of them, I hope that voters will take this time.

Congratulations to all of you who achieved the challenge ! :applause:

[EDIT : I haven't see previous idea of randomize the order of apparition. It could be really cool ]

rattlesnake
01-27-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by hesido
Hi,

I totally agree with being able to see score or sort by score hurts the contest.

I do not want to sound like a know-it-all guy, but before the following changes are made, no contest would have a strong basis:

The voter shouldn't be let sort by anything, and the pics should always come random. I mean always !

There should be a page with/without thumbnails containing all entries for quick access for users who knows about a specific image that s/he wants to vote for.

Right now, a user with the name Zennaciloco (made it up :) ) with an image called Zeno Of Elea would not get many "impressions" with the current method.


Someone can come up and say: "if you are taking it so seriously, then just browse thru all images" Well I try to do.. But not everyone could / would.

Just to be fair, you have to arrange it that way, and I believe it is utterly important for contests.

Btw, I have not participated in any challenges including this one and as you see my username isn't Zennaciloco :)

I agree, everytime u vote, for any image and press the "View & Vote on Entries" button you get the same page, so i think u see those front images much more and have chance to aquire more votes, and maybe u can miss other great jobs, u have to randomize that, i think.;)

WQP
01-27-2004, 12:32 PM
I like being able to vote for more than one image, there were quite a few good entries! Thank goodness for tabbed browsing though ;)

finchy
01-27-2004, 01:09 PM
My Image isn't on the Voting Page!!!!!!? Why isn't it? i'm well anoyed!!:D

pluMmet
01-27-2004, 03:29 PM
I can't tell if I voted. I logged in then voted but it didn't seem to work so I logged again and I'm in this login loop :( I just keep getting the log in screen?

arvid
01-27-2004, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Mananetwork
First thing I did when i entered the site was click on score. What I also did was checkout the first 3 pages.. then didn't bother to look at the rest.

Precisely what I did, and sertainly many others.. it just doesn't work for 8 pages of entries, it's not fair.

Pikler
01-27-2004, 04:45 PM
To anyone who plans on voting, may I recommend reading through the Alienware Challenge Instructions, (http://cgnetworks.com/alienware/challenge.php) more specifically the "Scene" portion of the instructions. There is a lot of awesome work up for votes, but not all of it follows the instructions very closely and I feel that should be taken into consideration when voting. Just because somebody produces a kick butt render doesnít mean they should win the contest, especially if they didnít closely follow the initial guidelines/instructions.

Good luck to everyone who entered!

Leonard
01-27-2004, 04:54 PM
Gaar, you guys are a fickle bunch!

When we ran the challenges previously on CGChallenge.com, everyone asked us for a "sort by score" feature to assist on the voting, and we put that in. And now everyone is asking for it to be removed. Make up your minds!

We will be doing the following:
- remove the score visibility
- remove the sort by score

As for the voting - this only constitutes 50% of the final judging, the rest will be handled by a jury consisting of Alienware and artists from the CG community.

Cheers,

Leonard

decipleofX
01-27-2004, 05:06 PM
:rolleyes: this is amazing. I dont think iv ever seen such a collection of talent this large before.

swadepgh
01-27-2004, 05:12 PM
Ahh it is true that only people with complaints will speak up, and now it is my turn.

I would bet that there are an equal number of people who want to see the score ranking, and who don't. I guess I don't have too much of an opinion on whether people should see the scores or not. I would say that, as an entrant, it would be nice to know how we are personally doing. I would like to know if/when I have been knocked out of the top 50% and/or bumped up into it.

Just my two cents. Best of luck to everyone who spent the long hours completing their entries. I know you mods will make things fair for everyone. Maybe we can split the difference and have the score sort every other day. ;)

Steve Green
01-27-2004, 05:42 PM
I don't really mind if there is a score or not, but having it sorted alphabetically does weigh things in favour of people with user names with numbers, or the beginning of the alphabet, especially with 140-odd entries.

A random sort each time would be the fairest solution, I've no idea how easy that is to implement, but it would be worth bearing in mind for future challenges.

Failing that, maybe you are only allowed to vote if you have browsed through all the pages first.

- Steve

JamesMK
01-27-2004, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Steve Green
Failing that, maybe you are only allowed to vote if you have browsed through all the pages first.
Not that I'm complaining about the current system, but that was actually a very clever suggestion from Stevieroonie here! :thumbsup:

rickycox
01-27-2004, 10:05 PM
I think sort by score should stay, it's nice to know how your going. Watch yourself slipping further down the list :) But I agree that the default view should be random.

Also to be fair to everyone, I don't think any entries from the comp should be used to promote the competition. It does change your perception of an image when you see it singled out and used in some elite or professional context.

leigh
01-27-2004, 10:19 PM
Guys, think about it - random sorting? How annoying would that be? You woud never know if you had seen all the entries because they would constantly be shuffled around.

rickycox
01-27-2004, 10:23 PM
That is a good point :)

finchy
01-27-2004, 10:25 PM
Could a MOD please tell me if my Image was left out by accident or is it a milestone issue! thanks! Finchy.

NicoDN
01-27-2004, 10:34 PM
Random sorting for the page in this case, no ? Really, is an important difference of voters between the first and the last page now or not ?

Steve Green
01-27-2004, 10:34 PM
Not really - I would expect it to work this way -

It would only be a random selection for the visit to the voting area per person, not every page - maybe it could be done as a cookie so it is random per user login, not per visit?

- Steve

hesido
01-27-2004, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Leigh
Guys, think about it - random sorting? How annoying would that be? You woud never know if you had seen all the entries because they would constantly be shuffled around.


Random sorting would NOT be annoying one bit, because you can just shuffle the list once and there you have your 8-9 whatever pages of images in random order. You can just check out every image. Almost every problem has a solution, c'mon, this is an wasy one, we can do better than this! think!

details: The image list could be in the same random order for each browser session thru the use of cookies which could expire , say in 12 hours, within that 12 hours, there is no re-shuffle.

Or the shuffle would be for each login for voting. So till you log out, the whole list would be shuffled once.

It is not hell of a programming challenge.

Just think it as if you are pushing the randomize button on your winamp playlist (playlist->misc->sort->randomize list (in winamp5). You see the playlist and what next song will come. Still it is in random order! You can press randomize again whenever you want. Just check your winamp 5 (it was also in the old one, but not sure if the buttons are same)

MartinK
01-27-2004, 11:44 PM
:cry: there's no fun now when the sort by score is gone.

I enjoyed watching my image move up and down the list, "competed" with others.

This is NOT a complain, but just an opinion.
I'm really thankful for the job the mods are doing.

Martin K

Mibus
01-27-2004, 11:49 PM
OK folks the sort-by-score stuff should all now be gone. (Mods and Admins excepted).

hesido: It isn't quite that simple. For starters, it'd first have to work its way into my currently very busy schedule (alot of work needs to be done for EXPOSE' 2 judging, for instance) ;-) . As for the programming, it's not *difficult*, but it's reasonably time-consuming. I've written a list-shuffler for an audio player before (I contributed the shuffle and loop functionality to NMF, the GPE environment's audio player). Shuffle and random are also very different things! Random is a whole lot easier to implement than shuffle, but is next-to-useless for what we want :)

It's not overwhelmingly *hard*, but it's hard enough to be a "not right now" thing. And that's just the shuffle... then you have to remember it in the cookies. Except chances are cookies aren't useful enough, so you'd have to store it using PHP's "session" functionality (and make sure it's sufficiently persistant), or store it in a brand-new database table. Not to mention, we still have to support people without cookies.

It's in consideration for the next challenge... I don't know if it'd be the default... Imagine that you give your buddy the URL via IM and then say "it's in the third row"... Oops :-)

DSedov
01-27-2004, 11:54 PM
Frankly I was also woried about images being sorted by score, once I got to the tird page. Though I expected to do better, I must agree there are hell a lot of good entries!!!


Hehe.... to tell the truth I was even expecting to win. Though now I see the problem - I spend more time with ditails rather then how it will look in avatar sized image. It is really beautifull in 50% from it is original size, but not a 100x100 image.

hesido
01-28-2004, 01:47 AM
Hi Mibus and all
I of course am aware time would never be enough this time!! I did a bit of arexx programming on my amiga so have an idea about how painful it can be (please search "hesido's corner" for my bloated arexx scripts :=) ) I know shuffling would be harder than just plain random, but with shuffle, it would appear random enough for the user, hence the usage of the word, "random" :=)

I am hoping for a change next time, or whenever this is ready, but it would be better if made ready eventually.

Sorting by score was NEVER a good idea anyways, it is for the sheer fun mostly for the contributors and spectators, I understand Martin very much. This can be solved with a daily newsletter to contributors with ranks, or some password to contributors for realtime stats.. That is a little extra pain. :=)

I stated in my earlier post that there should be a page with all the images listed, (probably without thumbs if there has to be too many) for easy access to all images. I can tell my friend to go to that page, see my image thru that link (and maybe even vote a whopping 10 out of 10 :=) ) This is the easiest of all to implement.

I don't know if it is possible but you can check how many times specific thumbnails are loaded, that is for viewing. You can easily see the ones on first pages are loaded more, and it should be statistically meaningful.

Main reason for insisting by me and hopefully some other people is simple, let people judge the entries with little or no prejudice. Let the average impression for all images be just about equal..

I know people are mostly working on a voluntary basis in cgtalk (I don't know actually but I guess :=) ) so it is indeed hard for me to say "I want this" "I want that", "put this" "remove that".. You guys are so generous you are working for our cg happiness! You should never take my (our) words as moaning, it is just that we are trying to give some ideas. I know I cannot object if one you comes up says "we simply can't do that due to ...." !

Thanks :=) )

Mibus
01-28-2004, 03:39 AM
hesido:

ATM only Mods and Admins can see or sort by score. I'd imagine that once we close voting, we'll allow it for everyone else. Updates sound cool, but voting isn't for *that* long. Anyway, where's the fun without lots of suspense? ;-)

Why would you want a list like that, I don't quite understand? Why not just give your friends your entry's URL? (When you're viewing just your entry, copy the location bar address and paste it into an email or IM).

I haven't got time right now to check the page hits, but comparing *voting* (which is what we're really interested in anyway), but on the new current default sort:

Page 1: Scores range from 1-129. Three are above 50.
Page 8: Scores range from 0-65. Four are above 50.

(Scores range from 0 to 276).

The top scorer so far is from page 2.

Of course this won't take into account any prior bias from the sort-by-score, but it's as good as we'll get right now :-). You can interpret this any way you want to push the numbers... fact of it is, with the sort-by-score having existed in the past, it's impossible to draw any numbers from it right now. How about somebody remind us of the shuffle idea when the next challenge is a couple of weeks away from closing? ;-)

As far as paid work goes... I get paid by Ballistic Media to work 9-5, mostly on various programming tasks. (In this case, the TIFF submission and the voting). I don't get paid for everything though, much of the stuff I've done on this challenge has been on my own time. My paid work lately revolves around the Ballistic Publishing image entry system (for EXPOSE' and the like), 3D Festival / 3D Awards, and whatever contract work we might have (eg. Gnomon Online last year).

But I'm in the lucky minority... most people here don't get paid at all, and any who do are more than likely doing far more than they're paid to :-)

Mibus
01-28-2004, 04:31 AM
Heya folks!

I've made the thumbnail pages have another row, so there are only seven pages now :-).

Pufferfish
01-28-2004, 08:30 AM
I understand it may have felt unfair if the score listing would have stayed, but imho, now that it aint there anymore... there aint much of a competition feeling either, just a gallery of cool images. Totally turned all the excitement off.

Also I find it kinda rude to think that people cant vote honestly if they see the listing of scores. This is all about opinions really and everyones own taste. Do you always vote the leaders or the image YOU like the best? It is like saying that people cant see with their own eyes. *shrugs*

Just when there started to be some serious excitement, images rising higer and higer ... it ended.
Now we can only wait and see what happens next.

Great challenge neverthless, been enjoying it a lot and I still am. Cheers:beer:

hesido
01-28-2004, 10:09 AM
Why would you want a list like that, I don't quite understand? Why not just give your friends your entry's URL? (When you're viewing just your entry, copy the location bar address and paste it into an email or IM)

:=) My bad :=) Earlier you said
Imagine that you give your buddy the URL via IM and then say "it's in the third row"... Oops :=)

So I probably got it wrong and had to come up with an answer and completely forgot that pictures would have their own url :=)

Pufferfish said
Also I find it kinda rude to think that people cant vote honestly if they see the listing of scores. This is all about opinions really and everyones own taste. Do you always vote the leaders or the image YOU like the best? It is like saying that people cant see with their own eyes. *shrugs*

Well, I agree people should see with their own eyes but there's also a tendency for people to stay close to majority on their decisions on most occasions and that is even seen in art :)
it is also about the number of impressions an image can get.

Anyway, people who want sort-by-score have their good reasons too, I can easily say the shuffle and sort-by-score can co-exist for everybody's taste, but I say "co-exist", so when shuffle is not provided as default, it seems just better not to have sort-by-score! Also, it could be that the sort by score could be switched on after the user votes, say, 3-5 times :=) That could help promote voting for more images so there you have your sort-by-score afterwards :=) My suggestions just keep coming out of nowhere lol :) (ya, but seriously, how about that :=) )

Mibus:
Don't kill me, just yet :=)

Zappa
01-29-2004, 12:44 AM
Hey!Mibus,

I think it might be a good idea to flip the order of sorting between Ascending and Descending Username/Name fr a couple days.

This wud give the guys in tha back pages a chance to show up on the front fr a few, and its only fair IMHO.
Cheers
Zappa

rickycox
01-29-2004, 01:28 AM
when does voting finish??

Gyan
01-29-2004, 05:49 AM
For future contests' sake, the admins should have a look at 3DLuvr's contest (http://contest.3dluvr.com/voting.php) voting system, when the next monthly contest is in voting stage.

Psotek
01-29-2004, 05:59 AM
when does voting finish??

I think next week Riki, February 3rd at midnight.

rustedmind
01-29-2004, 07:46 AM
Well here's an idea... it might make voting take a little longer but should be fair.

Why not divide the entries... let's say 20 - 30 entries for each division, then alott (sp?) a certain time for voting on that division, after the voting process is done for that, pick the next 20-30 entries, and allow ppl to vote on that 2nd division and so on and so forth?

sorry if the idea was mentioned already... i didn't bother reading pages 4 and 5 lol

Mananetwork
01-29-2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Leonard
Gaar, you guys are a fickle bunch!

When we ran the challenges previously on CGChallenge.com, everyone asked us for a "sort by score" feature to assist on the voting, and we put that in. And now everyone is asking for it to be removed. Make up your minds!

We will be doing the following:
- remove the score visibility
- remove the sort by score

As for the voting - this only constitutes 50% of the final judging, the rest will be handled by a jury consisting of Alienware and artists from the CG community.

Cheers,

Leonard

No put the score back in!! Put it back in!! .. LOK JK!!:scream:
I glad you took out the score. Now I can peacefully go through all the pictures and not have to know which one is in the lead with the most votes

dave_baer
01-29-2004, 11:23 AM
To be honest with you, I don't think any of those images fall within the guidlines of the contest. While there are some really nice images in there, they just don't relay that 'alienware-esque' feel to me. Sorry guys. :shrug:

Steve Green
01-29-2004, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by 'alienware-esque', the brief made no mention of it having to reflect alienware, the company.

I purposely avoided making any reference to their in product in the shape or design of part of my entry because I thought it would be too blatant.

Obviously this is my subjective view since I have an entry in there myself, but I don't see how you can say that all of the images fall outside the guidelines.

I would be interested to hear why or where you think they were outside the guidlines.

Cheers,

Steve

claudiojordao
01-29-2004, 12:26 PM
I want to see the scores! :cry: I want! I want! I want! :cry: bad jury.... bad. I'm just kiding ok?

MartinK
01-29-2004, 01:29 PM
I agree with Steve.
I'm also interested to hear what you ment, dave_baer?

Thanks.

Martin K

ESAD
01-29-2004, 01:42 PM
While I do understand that voters may only look at the first few pages if they are able to sort by score, and it "may" be unfair if defaulted to any specific sorting, and it "may" only be truly fair if the list is randomly generated.

The "bottom line" is this. It really doesn't matter what order they are in. If the best image is on the last page it is going to get votes because no matter what, if the entry sucks, it sucks. The bad will always filter to the bottom.

I looked at every last image, I made my very picky votes based on the challenge rules, I then came back the next day and sorted by score, and what do you know? Every picture I voted for are in the first couple of pages. So, like I said, if it's good it will filter to the top, if it's bad, it will fall to the bottom.

A suggestion for the challenge admins would be to allow sorting by ANY means to the people who have entries.

ESAD

Pufferfish
01-29-2004, 01:58 PM
dave_baer

Would you please explain what you just said ? Please enlighten us...

-pfish

swadepgh
01-29-2004, 05:12 PM
I agree with Zappa.

I think that when voting is half way through, the sort order should switch. That way the z-people get to be first and the a-people go to the end. That is easy to do, and would appease a lot of people's concerns about the sorting, including my own.

What do you say Mods? Can we do this?

batavia
01-29-2004, 08:15 PM
I looked at every last image, I made my very picky votes based on the challenge rules, I then came back the next day and sorted by score, and what do you know? Every picture I voted for are in the first couple of pages. So, like I said, if it's good it will filter to the top, if it's bad, it will fall to the bottom
~ESAD

If everyone is like that..then sort by score is not a problem. But a lot of people are lazy like me, and we never get past 3 pages..hehe.

Pufferfish
01-29-2004, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by batavia
[i]If everyone is like that..then sort by score is not a problem. But a lot of people are lazy like me, and we never get past 3 pages..hehe.


..er...in any case there are more than 3 pages to see. Lazy people wont see all anyhow..

-pfish

qwatkins
01-29-2004, 08:39 PM
I think the admins have a tough job at making everything fair. I suppose if everyone had a high-speed connection people would be more likely to look at more images if that is their motivation. But for anyone who either has a vested interest in the challenge or enjoys looking at great artwork will cruise all of the images. I agree with what was said earlier that more than likely the best images will gravitate upwards.

Pufferfish
01-29-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by qwatkins
I think the admins have a tough job at making everything fair...


Yep its pretty hard to please everyone. Even if 99% would be happy there is always that 1% complaining :)

We people tend to be like that :)

qwatkins
01-29-2004, 09:08 PM
As a rule
mans' a fool
when it's hot
he wants it cool
when it's cool
he wants it hot
always wanting what it's not
never wanting what he's got

nvaughn
01-29-2004, 09:28 PM
Wow, most of the entries are amazing. I just wish the image quality could have been better, so i could see what the image really looks like on the creators comp.
Anyway,I loved the stories some of you had, they gave me a nice summary of what i was actually seeing.
Almost everyone(yes almost) had quality images on display, congrats to you guys!

TheFirstAngel
01-29-2004, 09:32 PM
I just seen you frontpaged my work,:blush: i feel very honored!:buttrock: :bowdown: Thank you!!!!
Thanks for making all of this possible, and Best luck to all!

Mibus
01-29-2004, 10:42 PM
I switched the sort order for a bit of fun ;-)

swadepgh
01-29-2004, 11:15 PM
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! :bounce: :applause: :thumbsup:

Psotek
01-29-2004, 11:26 PM
I agree with Zappa.

I think that when voting is half way through, the sort order should switch. That way the z-people get to be first and the a-people go to the end. That is easy to do, and would appease a lot of people's concerns about the sorting, including my own.

What do you say Mods? Can we do this?


I hope you guys realize, that whatever way you sort it, there will still be a bias. Sure, if you switch the entries in order from Z-A instead of A-Z, people in the back will now be on the front. Yay. Now what about those people who fall in the middle of the alphabetical list? No matter which way you turn it, they will still be in the middle; page 3, 4 or 5. And so, theres always a bias. So just stop complaining because its good as it is. I think since I just brought this up, the people who ARE in the middle will start to voice their concerns and the complaints will start again.
Let the people vote, damnit.

Bartosz

MartinK
01-29-2004, 11:36 PM
Bartosz, you got a good point. (I'm in the middle....:cry: )

I'm impressed of the mods who try to satisfy everyone all the time, but just do what you think is best. It will be wrong for somebody anyway.

I think that the best images will make it to the final stage anyway and then all the images will be equally judged by the jury.

Martin K

swadepgh
01-30-2004, 12:19 AM
Bartosz - thank you for singling me out as a "complainer". I intended my post as a suggestion, rather than a complaint. There is no "fair" way to do things at this point. I thought that Zappa's suggestion would simply make things a bit less disheartening for those at the end of the alphabet. I appreciate that the mods changed it. I am sorry that this disappoints you.

Best of luck to you in the contest. :)

Psotek
01-30-2004, 01:59 AM
Bartosz - thank you for singling me out as a "complainer". I intended my post as a suggestion, rather than a complaint. There is no "fair" way to do things at this point. I thought that Zappa's suggestion would simply make things a bit less disheartening for those at the end of the alphabet. I appreciate that the mods changed it. I am sorry that this disappoints you.

Best of luck to you in the contest.



Where did you gather that I am disapointed by the decision? I was on the front page when it was A-Z, and now im on the last. I didnt, ever, say this bothered me, and I quote myself :

Let the people vote, damnit.


As (I hope) you can see, i just want people to shutup already and let the voting continue until it ends on the 3rd of february. I am still confused about how you think I am "disapointed" at the mods decision to reverse the order of the images.

Oh and I did not single you out as a "complainer". I didnt even know you were in the middle. Besides, sorting by name is pretty much as random as its going to get, because YOU and I were the ones who chose our nicknames, never knowing this challenge would be ordered alphabetically. Its just the way the cookie crumbles, and im sorry you happen to be in the middle.

Best of luck to you, too.

Bartosz

derelict
01-30-2004, 02:17 AM
So this is how another world looks like, interesting. Interesting indeed. All the best to one and all. Hope the winner will enjoy his/her new comp.:beer:

JamesKo
01-30-2004, 02:54 AM
Wow, there are some really nice pictures in there. I only saw some of the awesome artwork.

I voted for some picture; but I didn't enter the contest. I hope thats fine. Now i know about this site, next time I can join in the game!

Zappa
01-30-2004, 04:39 AM
Hey!Bartosz,
Changin the order is only fair...if you are not upset with it...great...cause everyone deserves a fair chance...fr da people in the middle...they deserve to be in front fr a few too....IMHO.
Cheers :beer:
Zappa

The first one now will later be last.....for the times they are a changin - Bob Dylan

dave_baer
01-30-2004, 07:31 AM
Well, I guess what I mean by that is, according to the guidelines posted by AW for this contest, none of these images seem to fit them.

According to AW:
You are standing on some unknown alien setting. This location seems to be whispering to you, you have a feeling that something was created here; maybe even the land itself is alive. The location seems unpopulated, but not necessarily abandoned or neglected, nor rusting or decaying, but life forms are inexistent. The location where you stand seems to be moving and it is difficult to comprehend its function or intent. The surfaces and materials that surround you are nothing like you have ever seen before. The design and layout of the location defies logic or the laws of physics, though only slightly, it seems that reality here is somewhat obscure. You feel a sense of grandness and awe, your breath is coming in short tight gasps from witnessing this alien phenomenon as it starts to overwhelm you. You cry out, "Is anyone there?"

I just don't get this feeling from any of the images posted. But hey, that's just IMHO.

MartinK
01-30-2004, 09:06 AM
Thank you, dave_baer for clearing that.

I thought maybe I had misunderstood the guidelines.

Martin K

3demon
01-30-2004, 09:47 AM
basically the images on the first page get more votes

hum are you shure about that

:buttrock:

Steve Green
01-30-2004, 12:10 PM
Thanks,

Everyone's entitled to their opinion...

On a related topic, when the contest is over, I think it would be useful for the judges to give a brief appraisal of the winning entries, saying why they picked those and where they felt they fulfilled the brief in particular.

Cheers,

- Steve

qwatkins
01-30-2004, 02:43 PM
:lightbulb: Good Idea Steve Green. It would be nice to hear feedback from the "Client" who "commissioned" this work.

Zappa
01-30-2004, 10:21 PM
Imho the voting idea itself defeats the purpose of making large size renders, and like someone mentioned before....things look completly difftent when viewing the render in actual print size as compared to viewing on the monitor.
Therefore i feel it would have been best, if the images (actual prints) went before a panel of judges, and the decision taken based on that.

Also, the voting gives an unfair advantage to ppl still in school, when its possible to get theire classmates votes en mass.

Well, theres been enough whineing goin on :D , so overall i must say i am very happy with the Challenge and how fun the whole thing was....got to see some real kool images, lookin back, i think i should have worked harder on my image instead of whineing
:D
Cheers all!!

Silencer1M
01-31-2004, 11:32 AM
Everybody is complaining on how the people don't see their images.
Think for a little, there is something fundamentaly wrong here!

THIS ONLINE VOTING IS IN A WAY THE THING THAT DECIDES THE WINNER, CAUSE- IF I UNDERSTOOD WELL - ONLY THE TOP 50% of us (highes vote numbers) WILL GET TO THE PRO JURY!!!!!!!!!

THAT is wrong - from two reasons- they are the ones that know best what they want from the final images ( and less voted tiffs that might have been considered good will not make it there) and
SECOND - public votes on web images - not full rez images- that can change a lot of things- we did the tiffs but they migt not be seen EVER!!!!!!!! - cause entries will be rulled OUT.

That i think is a real problem!

MartinK
02-09-2004, 11:30 AM
Dear moderators.

Is it possible to see the scores now? I'm very excited to see if I'm one of the first 50%.

Thanks anyway for making this challenge happening.

regards
Martin K

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