Suggestions for Maya 4.5 ?

[meloncully]

connect edges instead of the cut tool or whatever its called

better poly tools

[ME3D]

Convert to nurbs from Sub-D and Poly.
And the ability to use Paint F/X, and Fur on Sub-Ds or Poly's.
Both of these request's are for the same reason. I model my best work in sub-d's and I love them, but when it comes to Frills to add the depth in a scene I have no choice but to use only one type of modeling. At least the convert option!

Otherwise I love most everything, but if Renderman Artist tools was added into an more expensive bundle of Maya, I wouldnt complain! lol

Thanks, this was fun.

[SheepFactory]

ability to render to PhotoShop with layers and everything.

No point in asking them for a better renderer , in the end all we got is a "%20 speed increase in most situations" gee :\

[ME3D]

I know its no use on the renderer issue,but thought what the hey. You did remind me of something else concering the layers! Better Layer export to say ......Combustion-AfterEffects-PShop......Yea That could be good!

I tried MTOC But it isnt really working for me. It seems you still have to turn all your settings off one at a time and individually render of the layers still.
All I've seen come into combustion is the camera and nulls to attach back to. Troublesome!

[underdog]

I'd like more than full and partial crease with subD, should be a spinner or slider. Some new poly tools to play with would be neat. They should bring the rest of the uv mapping stuff to subd's as well I guess. I seem to remember bump map only works on default uv, that should be fixed.

I'll think of more later maybe...

[underdog]

ME3D: Fur does work on poly and subD, as long as your uvs are layed out. Paintfx are nurbs only though I guess, haven't really used paintfx much.

[ME3D]

Really?Fur on Polys?...Cool Thanks for the tip I'll try it next time. I dont use Fur much but paint F/x is becoming a regular tool. They are a big difference for my work.
I hated scattering geometry to make grass, now I get the excuse to paint with a brush again. Albiet avirtual brush..lol
Thanks

[SheepFactory]

they can take paint fx away for all i care,

i agree that the partial crease and full crease needs a slider ,

i want editable motion trails too.

the list will go on :)

[Grooveholmes]

:beer:

"fix client changes" button.

[svenip]

hi guys,

as some know (i posted this a while ago) i'm asked and supposed to write a review of maya 4.5 for a couple of german magazines. i wait every day for the package. if i get it, i will let you know what's exactly the new impovements and what's really usable (at least what i think)

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Chappo]

TRUE VECTOR OUTPUT DIRECTLY INTO FLASH MX ! :)

[Mikkel Jans]

I Want deform able Mapping objects

[-wT-]

Heya Svenip, if you will still remember this when you finally get it, could you tell me the polytools it has? As I think I'm going to kill myself if AW has included their own "Connect" tool in :)

[iC4]

hm, I don't need much more poly tools, with the scripts out there you have all tools you need

but if it comes with these tools I don't have a problem with that :)

[svenip]

hey -wt- i really hope the best for all you poly guys that aw brings some new tools :) . as i'm more a nurbs modeller (if i have the time to modell) that isn't what i'm looking for. for me it would be more a real good editor for scripts build into maya with all features. also the fluids everyone is talking about now would be a really great help (but we'll see). i don't expect and don't want new interface improvements. this isn't really good if i have to look for my commands in every version for new.

hmm what would i like to have too ??....

a better integration of the nonlienar anim, just like the one in XSI (even it#s not almost complete like they wanna tell us, but it's still better then maya. what a surprise :) ).
ahh i know...a browser window as a panel with cgtalks maya forum build in :) )

just my suggestions...

[wavefront]

Hi.I would like to be able to paint my textures directly over the uv editor.It would be also useful to have layers at 3dpaint,like DeepPaint,and displaying changes in real time on bump map,specular map,etc like DeepPaint does.
I would like also to setup fur with splines.This way,long hair could be done easily .Bye.

[Raptor235]

I allready have Maya 4.5 beta and really there isn't that much improvements cut faces ect all those are now integrated, there is a bunch of new fluid effects which I haven't played with yet they're really slow...really there isn't that much that has changed...which is a shame..

[SheepFactory]

Hey Bart ,

can you please check if there is a %20 speed increase in the renderer. ;)

[Raptor235]

Hehe I can try if I get a chance maybe tonight I'll grab one of the scenes from their site..

[-wT-]

Could you describe the new polygon tools in it? Just the names you've noticed there not been in earlier versions.

Thanks

[TumikSmacker]

there needs to be a "create good looking character model" button

[Raptor235]

Guys I'll post the help file that has all new features in it when I get home so hang on to your horses just for a bit...

[Array]

what maya NEEDS before ANY new features are added is this:

1) Fix subd surfaces. The renderman standard details an EXTREMELY robust method of doing SUBD, why alias spent $ to develop their own is beyond me.

2) Fix rendering issues, crashes, etc.

3) Fix the RIB output plugin. If you dont have a decent renderer to begin with, you could at least put time into making it easier to convert one's scene into RIB out of the box.

[-wT-]

Originally posted by Array
3. If you dont have a decent renderer to begin with, you could at least put time into making it easier to convert one's scene into RIB out of the box.

Why make their own when there's this excelent RenderMan Artist Tools just for it? Ok sure it doesn't support Entropy, and costs ALOT, but still... it's there.

[El Mago]

I guess that ther SHOULD be as was mentioned before, an editable motion trail.

Some other stuff:

- Edit buttons for copying and pasting keframes in the Grapheditor
- Better Import/Export functions (max/lwo/etc)
- GI or at least Imagebased lighting with HDRI as part of the core
- SPINNERS for the channnels in the channel box....
- A smiultaneos IK/FK solution (like character studio has)

That's all folks.

[Raptor235]

what are spinners?

[Array]

-wt- if u look hard enough, there is a RIB exporter bundled with maya....it just sux....bad.....

props to KayosIII for building a RIB exporter for wings3d which crushes Alias|Wavefront's implementation.

[Raptor235]

I have a ton of requests but I dunno if they're even looking at this...anyway here are the new features just download the file its' about 12mb so it's only gonna be online for today so get it while you can..

www.bartdabek.com/temp/WhatsNew.rar (http://www.bartdabek.com/temp/WhatsNew.rar)

[bigfatMELon]

1) Fix subd surfaces. The renderman standard details an EXTREMELY robust method of doing SUBD, why alias spent $ to develop their own is beyond me.

Easy. If they had used that method, they would have infringed on PIXAR's patent of that process. Which is why every other developer chooses to develop their own method or go with catmull-clarke. In Maya's case, you can get both.

Whenever you see a developer come up with yet another sub-D that is nice but still not as good as PIXAR's, you can bet a box of Krispy Kremes that it wasn't developer pride that caused that to happen.

-jl

[wmaher2]

We a totally internal radiosity, and caustics engine. that will render post processes....ie fur pfx etc....and a nice hair simulator like the XSI 2.0 one....

Put in the soft/maya full inport an export plugin that soft made with MEL. But maya wont let it be released.. it exports all animation texture support everything both ways.

Bonus game working properly!!!

[Array]

renderman does use catmull-clark subdivisions....thats where the algorithm came from, as both those people work for Pixar.

[bigfatMELon]

renderman does use catmull-clark subdivisions....thats where the algorithm came from, as both those people work for Pixar.


Well... that's the method used by the smooth node so that is already in Maya.

But PIXAR's true sub-D surface method that includes variable creasing is patented technology.

-jl

[Calle]

Can someone tell me WHY a software like maya have such a "bad" renderer? :rolleyes:

[bigfatMELon]

Certainly, provided that you can tell us what's bad about it.

Different people have different needs and levels of understanding about rendering systems. It might be that Maya's renderer isn't at all bad but that you aren't yet able to leverage it's capability. Or it may be that the type of work that you do isn't suitable for what Maya's renderer does. A third case may be that your expectations of how Maya's renderer should work are predicated on your knowledge of another application.

In any case, if you can describe what isn't working for you then I'm sure that can be addressed.

-jl

[bentllama]

Hear hear Melon! Too many people are quick to quip about Maya's renderer...

...you stated your point eloquently...

[-wT-]

Originally posted by Array
-wt- if u look hard enough, there is a RIB exporter bundled with maya....it just sux....bad.....

props to KayosIII for building a RIB exporter for wings3d which crushes Alias|Wavefront's implementation.

Oh yes, I know there's one, thank you very much ;)
But again, why spend work-hours to try and make a better exporter than there is already (RAT)?
Yeh I know I know... us "normal" ppl... But I don't know how AW thinks, so this is just speculation :p


Originally posted by Calle
Can someone tell me WHY a software like maya have such a "bad" renderer? :rolleyes:

I do have to aggree with bentllama and bigfatMELon... I just want you to show me how i.e. MAX's default scanline is better than Maya's one? Remember, Brazil/Vray sure isn't the default renderer of MAX, and XSI has Mental Ray integrated, so it's not something SoftImage -made, so it's case depentand if you can consider it with the MAX and Maya scanlines...



Oh and now I know what I want for 4.5... recompiled draw-select (Or something)! Dunno why the latest version is for 3.0, it was rather usefull tool :annoyed: (Or does anyone know if I can use the lasso tool to select even if i.e. the edge has been selected only partially AKA under 50% of it selected?)

[beaker]

>>-wt- if u look hard enough, there is a RIB exporter bundled with maya....it just sux....bad.....

You would be surprised to know that Larry Gritz(exluna founder/ex pixar guy) wrote the maya rib exporter. It was before he worked for pixar though, but after he had written bmrt. An extensive exporter takes lots of work to do, thats why something like Mayaman costs $2,000. Someone that has the money to buy prman or entropy in the first place should have the money to buy RAT or Mayaman.

>- Edit buttons for copying and pasting keframes in the Grapheditor
>- SPINNERS for the channnels in the channel box....

These features are allready in maya. There is a copy and paste keyframe in the graph editor, you can also access it in the timeslider. There are virtual spinners in the channel box. You can do it by selecting the channel and draging the middle mouse button in the viewport. Also you can do it in the attrib editor by selecting the field with the left mouse button and then hold down the ctrl button and drag with the left mouse button.

-> Better Import/Export functions (max/lwo/etc)

There is a problem with having a 3dsmax importer/exporter because max doesn't actually write out all data in the file. You have to use the 3dsmax libraries to reconstruct the data. So the only way a max importer would work is if you actually had max on the system that you had the importer/exporter on.

[wmaher2]

I do agree Melon...... I love the Maya Renderer...and mayas its use of open GL Helps make it in my mind the most powerful app out there.....But Caustics, and radiosity are not Brand new CG abilities, in the scheme of things, thats why it is important for Maya to intergrate photons. It is asking alot I know the rndering engines are probaly the most expensive part of the app to design. But it isnt like it is that cheap//..
Sure the prices are going down greatly.. And the majority of us dont pay for it anyway, for home use.

They should stop neglecting the older tools...Like there was a shrink wrap in Autodesks 3d studio release 3.00 (DOS). U think they could have gotten around to adding one to maya by now..

[wmaher2]

If God made all the creatures in the world, Do you thin he used Maya or XSI ???????

[underdog]

I think more than anything I hope the subdivisions surfaces get a major boost. I really like working with them but they can be troublesome and very slow at times.

[kamsvag]

The ability to rotate the scale pivot. You can do this in softimage 3d and it's very handy while modeling. Right now one has to rotate another object and make the object you wish to do the acctual adjustment on to a child of the rotated object, it's a big dissadvantage to have to work like that.

[friboli]

They said that Maya 4.5 , in the final version, has also a new interface, or better, interface enhancements...
For now it's the same of ver 4. There are fluid and ocean effects :bounce: , some plugin commands are now integrated (cut, poke faces and so on) and some new marking menus (still not working..). Plus the ability to convert subd into real rocking nurbs!! (and it works fine!) We have to wait some more time for the full version.

[Grooveholmes]

I saw that one of the new features in max5 is the ability to use .PSD files and use the actual layers as channels such as bump, color, spec, etc.

I'd love to see this in maya sometime soon in the future, Heh heh, just having to use one file node and then hook attributes from each layer into what you want...

[Raptor235]

now that would be amazing

[bigfatMELon]

Sure the prices are going down greatly.. And the majority of us dont pay for it anyway, for home use.

They should stop neglecting the older tools...Like there was a shrink wrap in Autodesks 3d studio release 3.00 (DOS). U think they could have gotten around to adding one to maya by now..

First, it's just the tiniest bit hypocritical to admit that you are using it without having paid for it and then to complain that it's missing a feature that is important to you. If you don't own it then I don't think you're in much of a position to complain about it, and the folks at Alias aren't going to listen much to non-buying users. When it comes to weighting their decisions about new features, customer requests always come first because customers are the people who pay their salaries.

Second, one of the biggest points of Maya, and also one of the greatest reasons to use it, is that they knew when they were making it that they couldn't possibly satisfy everyone's needs. No 3D developer to date has been able to and Alias is no different. This (and a few other reasons) is why there is MEL - so you have some chance to add what they didn't get to. Of course, this doesn't much help those who might need features like real GI but there are a number of ShrinkWrap-like scripts available on highend3D.

Third, even though you find the feature important doesn't mean that everyone else does as well. It may be the most important thing in the world or even appear to be among the most obvious... to you.

For those of you who haven't worked for software developers, here's some insight into how development decisions get made.

Question 0: (they are programmers so indexed lists always begin at zero), what bugs/shortcomings need to be addressed?

Question 1: what did our customers ask for?

Question 2: what does our competition have that we should look to add in order to remain competitive?

Question 3: from the list so far, which of these things is most achievable? Which ones are going to very difficult or even downright incompatible with our current code base? Split into two lists: doable, not doable.

Question 4: Of the things that appear on the not doable list which of them is so important that we feel we should spend the extra money to do them anyway? Put them back on the doable list, perhaps in favor of some other doable items that are deemed less important. Back to one list again.

Question 5: how long will it take to do the list that results from questions 1-4 and is it possible to deliver them in the time frame that our users expect or that we think the current market conditions require? Cull the list according to importance as our "aggressive list."

Question 6: now that we have the dev list for version x.x, how should they be prioritized so that when we encounter problems along the way to our delivery date, we can simply start culling features from the bottom of the list. reorder the aggressive list.

Alias has the luxury of one question that few others have: what scripts have been written already that we can bring in-house, juice them up and run them through our QA process to deliver has a built-in feature for much less than if we did the same from scratch?

BEGIN DEVELOPMENT

It's easy to see how features might never make it into an application purely on the basis that there never were enough customer requests that it maintained its importance level through the great gauntlet of questions. Or perhaps it just barely made it on but keeps getting culled because there are always problems and it's always at the bottom. You might also be surprised just how often 50 people complain about the lack of a feature or the presence of a bug in a public forum yet fail to contact the company directly about the issue.

-jl

[Calle]

Originally posted by bigfatMELon
Certainly, provided that you can tell us what's bad about it.

Different people have different needs and levels of understanding about rendering systems. It might be that Maya's renderer isn't at all bad but that you aren't yet able to leverage it's capability. Or it may be that the type of work that you do isn't suitable for what Maya's renderer does. A third case may be that your expectations of how Maya's renderer should work are predicated on your knowledge of another application.

In any case, if you can describe what isn't working for you then I'm sure that can be addressed.

-jl

I'm sorry about my bad explanation. I'm pleased by the renderer except for the gi, that does'nt exsist. :) The thing is that, in my opinion, the renderer has a bad reputation because it has no gi like mental ray, the image quality is pretty poor and so on. This is what I've heared from alot of people. I'm maby wrong. Sorry once again.

[bigfatMELon]

Beware of heresay. There is a reason why heresay is not accepted as evidence in court.

I submit that most of what you hear is what someone else heard from someone else, who heard it repeated from someone they thought might actually know... And before you know it, what people are still repeating hasn't applied to the app in question for the last two versions.

The image quality issue was cleaned up at v4. It was still quite possible to make great images in prior versions but it required far more effort and digital voodoo than it does today.

Now for the GI issue. The fact of the matter is, GI in actual production is only for those with the most powerful render farms or people delivering stills. But if you REALLY need it for your client's work, then you are collecting adequate render fees to warrant the investment in that hardware and multiple copies of MR to boot. Not that I wouldn't welcome it as a built in function but it really is WAY overvalued by the population at large. It's neat, sure, but it's also mostly buzz.

But rather than sit here defending the app and all that, I envite you to try it out for yourself, spend the time to learn what it has to offer and then cast a knowledgable criticism of its faults. At the very least it'll make for a better thread.

-jl

[DesignDawg]

Well, sure, lots of people talk bad about Maya's renderer, and of course we all know it's not TERRIBLE< but it is lacking in some of the newer features... I have Mental Ray, though, so I'm not concerned with that need. IMO, A|W has already addressed that need by making MR available. What IS bad, however, that no one can dispute, is the lack of field rendering in Maya.
Now, don't get me wrong: There IS an option to render fields. But it doesn't work. That is to say, the "fields" it renderes are not fields at all. They are a hack, and widely recognized to be unuseable. I do know the workaround, and have to use it almost daily. You render out half frames and then create fields from the full half-frames in a compositing app. But that requires you to render and deal with twice as many images. Not good.

I say this to be constructive. I love Maya. I hope they see fit to fix the fields thing soon.

Ricky
DesignDawg

[graphiouz]

Jumping between Poly-Vertex the Nurbs Way!(arrowkeys)

Re-set / change grid subdivision lines viewport independently,

Outliner button in the channelBox, you know where you change to both layers and channelbox! why not channelbox - outliner?

anyway, does anyone have a change Grid line Number script? :)

.

[Tob]

I promised myself I wouldn't dive into this, but here we go:

The bad reputation that follow Maya's renderer like a foul smell is not very surprising, and well deserved. I agree with bigfatMELon that it's quite decent now these days, but it took them six (6) versions to get there. That's unacceptable for a high end program - or used to be before the price cut. There's still a lot of flaws left; Apart from the obvious ones, like SWparticles bugs, clippingPlane problems, manual tesselation, and jittering; most of them I can only categorize as wierd stuff, and only tend to show up once; preferebly under production :). Flickering textures, and the fact that scenes render images differently on different machines are other surprises. This really bugs the hell out of me. Rendering is weirdly enough the most hazardeous and time consuming part of the production. A shitload of time is wasted on tracking down bugs and re-rendering layers, that otherwise could be spent on doing actual work. :annoyed:

There; just had to blow of some steam. Been at this bastard a good solid 30 h now, and fixing rendering errors when all I want to do is sleep, tend to get on my nerves.
Much better now :wip:

[beaker]

>>A|W has already addressed that need by making MR available.

A/W didn't write the maya to MR translator, Mental Images did(Though I believe a/w has taken over some of the development now, but for the last 3-4 years it was all MI). It's just that MI doesn't sell software to the consumer(no sales or marketing department) so they have the company that makes the 3d software sell it. You can't actually buy MR direct from MI, only through a 3rd party.

>>What IS bad, however, that no one can dispute, is the lack of field rendering in Maya.

I don't find this that big of a deal. I've been using Prman for many years and it doesn't even have the option to render fields and it never will(I could be wrong but I don't believe MR has an option for this either). The best(and fastest) way I have found to do fields is too just do everything at 24 fps and then do a 2/3 pullup in post. First you save lots of time in rendering by skipping out on 6 frames per second. Second, this is how all films are done when they goto video and it has worked fine for many years(obviosly from all the films that are later released on video).

[J:F:K]

here is a screen shot from maya 4,5
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/animate/maya45.jpg

[J:F:K]

dooooooooo its was allready posted here! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Grooveholmes]

Cool, look at the tags "Make boat" and "Make Motor Boat" I assume that will create a bounding object that will float on and disrupt the water surface. Perhaps MotorBoat will create the Vshaped wake created from a faster moving motorboat?! Oooooh and also look at the container tools. Finally i can fill a glass with particles and then pour them out.

[graphiouz]

that 'make boat' 'make motor boat' will create a Bayliner (poly or nurbs of your choise), drag a slider to manover diffrent sizes, the color and finish is a thumbnail view, just drag and drop, actually writen in Html :)

:wip:

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