Manually Setting Bone Values

[Grey]

okay, let me add to this to clarafy it:

IF I can find a way to enter the ENDPOINT position of a bone the problem is solved. So far as I can tell, there's simply no way to do this.

http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20020623-Grey153850.jpg

[LucentDreams]

Sorry there is no method i know for this one. You may need to try the guys over at Postforum for this.

[Grey]

uhg.. postforum crashes my browser... :(

Kai, if you have any pull with Maxon, please tell them this is a huge barrier.

Transferring mocap data from one platform to another the bones need to be exact, and for that, I need to set exact positions.

I think I can finess this using Rhino to measure rotation and scaling and/or length... but it adds to my workload exponencially. :(

[LucentDreams]

there are measuring plugins you could probably use, though it would be a really slow process. And I can guarantee you I hve no pull with them. I am just another lowly user.

[Grey]

here's how I'm going to have to do it and it can be done in Cinema, but it's easier in Rhino.

Basically I have to put points in the position of each bone and it's endpoint, then draw a curve between them, then measure the rotation from the ZY axis... oh the pain...

Anyway... it would be nice if it were a simple matter of setting the XYZ coords in the bone dialog... :(

[LucentDreams]

if your going to do it that way, I suggest getting the dimensions plugin may save you a step or two

[Caravaggio]

I picked up a plug in called something like "Set null object" that has a few options, one of which is to put a null object at the end of a bone.

I suppose you could also rotate a child null object of the bone to match the axis and then change the z value to the same as the length of the bone in the bone options. If that's what your doing, not sure I completely get it.

[Grey]

the length of the bone will be set when I have the endpoint, they should interchangeably affect eachother.

The end dimensions of the bone would conform, of course, to the start and endpoint of the bone.

I think it's a bit of an oversight on Maxon's part... Germans are so thoughough and C4D is soo "over-engineered" (like a BMW or Mercedes) it kinda surprises me.

Caravaggio and Kai, are these plugins on Plugin Cafe? If not, where?

[LucentDreams]

setnyull object should be I am not sure about dimensions.

[Grey]

Kai, the problem is it offers a way to read where the endpoint is located, but no way to control its position... I still have to go back to doing math...

[LucentDreams]

I guess your just SOL, there is just no way to do this yet. what about stting nulls where you need each end point to be and the pulling the endpoint until it reaches the null, along with a targeting tag while your setting to do a sort of snapping by making sure it is aimed directly at the end point. does that make sense?

[Grey]

yeah, I could do it that way, but it involves setting up exact points for the nulls, then eyeballing the position of the endpoint, which defeats the purpose of exact null positions.

So far as a targetting tag... I may try that...

One solution might have been to align a bone up to the centerpoint of the next bone in the chain, which we have control over, but I can't see a function for that either...

Is this how all high end apps treat bones? I don't get how you can grow a bone without being able to control your starting point... seems terribly innefficient...

[kiwi]

Thats bizarre....so bone chains dont register as normal objects and retain their XYZ coordinates even if they are active or deactivated on export? :hmm:



I wonder if Golem is any different Grey?



What if you put a stop tag on all the bones so that the coordinates could not be altered then exported.



Stu.

[Grey]

Kiwi, they DO but only at their centerpoint, and only AFTER a bone is created!

The problem comes when your about to grow a bone of of one you just made!

Make a new bone...

The default is in exact position all the time.

grow a bone out of it!

Where is the end of that second bone? The END of that second bone will be the where the NEW bone starts! Why can't you set the end of that bone so the new bone starts there? I dunno, but that's one reason why this should be immediately controllable, but it isn't.

The reason I need control over the endpoints is much more critical for my sake, having to do with imported mocap...

[LucentDreams]

Ahh now I see the problem, its this simple, restrict your axis so that you can only move along an objects Z axis, then select the bone you want to grow from. Now simply hold CTRL (CMD on mac) and pull the orange point on the end of the bone. this grows the bone from the previous.

[Grey]

yes, but that still doesn't solve how to control the position of the orange point if it isn't exactly allong an X, Y or Z axis?

Let's say a bone starts at x=0, y=0 and Z=0 and must extend to X=1.5, y=1.7 and Z=0 this will be the starting point of the next bone. It's angled and the only way to figure out how to get the end into that position is to know the exact lenght and rotation of the bone.

So the next bone starts off at:
x=1.5
y=1.7
z=0
extending to:
x=3
y=1.6
z=1.8

Restricting the movement allong a single axis simply doesn't solve it, becasue the bone would extend fine allong one, but would be too short to reach either of the other too coords.

If I had the ability to enter the EndPoint values, this would not be an issue. But I can't, so it is.

[LucentDreams]

so set a null object eat the point in which each bone is set. now create your first bone, pull a child out of it a little, add a trget tag to it to aim it at the desired null, now continue pulling the end point until it meets the null, now creat the pull out the next bone a little, target at the next null and pull it till it meets that null. Not fast by any means but it should work.

[Grey]

didn't expect it to be :D

Thanks everyone for your assistance...

I hope Maxon pays close attention to the message I sent them regarding this problem.

[Grey]

Kai, my man, your solution IS turning out to be the best one...

Thanks again everyone for your help.

This is Kai's solution with some help at the postforum, but Just so everyone understands this here's how it's happening:

nul object called TARG, and a Target expression to point to TARG

Start with one bone which will be my "Body Bone" add the expression and the bone points to targ.

I enter the coordinate value where my endpoint is going to be on the NULL object using WORLD coordinates.

pull the bone up till the little orance circle has the white null as a bullseye, then zoom in to make sure it's on target.

Grow new bone:

In the Object Manager: move TARG expression TO the new bone so that the old bone no longer has it (is there a way to lock it down so it can't move unless I unlock it?)...

Enter new coordinate values for TARG expression and move end of new bone till little orange thingie has null as bullseye...

and on and on and on...

I should go thank the guys at the Postforum too... :D

[LucentDreams]

yeah its terrible when workarounds have to get that complex. I mean I have no problem when I have to make a workaround, thats one of the things I like about art in general is figuring out how can i do this or that, and not always having tools to do it for me, but when you have to do that manythings to do something so obvious and simple it can really get annoying.

anyways good luck on the project and keep us up to date on the results (like they didn't work or what?)

[Grey]

It's WORKING :D

And here's the kicker... all I have to do to duplicate a side is simply copy it, rename the bones, reparent it to the top of the chain, and start aiming the bones from the top down, no need to re-grow them.

All that I have left to do here is the Hands... should be done in a couple of hours...

http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20020623-Grey231859.jpg

[kiwi]

Real glad you got it worked out Grey :thumbsup:



I kinda get what you guys are talking about now :hmm: {puts on pointed hat with D and sits in corner}



Kai I understand fully what you mean about you like to work things out yourself.I dont have any plugins in Photoshop that I actually use so I am fnding it hard to get used to 101 of them in Cinema 4ds plugins folder.


Oh ya have you any idea if this tree generator would be as good/as good as say Tree Pro?....they have $200 off at the moment :)


Stu.

[LucentDreams]

well for one thing this will be a hell of a lot cheaper arpund say 50 at most I would guess but likely less than that even. I doubt it will have all the features but for the price that is expected.

For me though, I have given up on both, the new Extrude Along Spline plugin will be my tree generator. Just draw a tree out of splines and extrude along them section by section. you can even use rail splines to control the width alond the spline.

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