Help modeling eyelids pretty please.

[elektronaut]

You should try this Link (http://www.learning-maya.com/modeling.php#organic1) . There are some good tutorials about headmodeling AND eyelashes.

greets
marco.

[Garma]

elektronaut he said eyelids not eyelashes.

You should consider using polygons. For faces and deformable objects Nurbs really aren't the best choise. There are some pretty good polygonal/subdiv tutorials around.

[bgdave39]

I am modeling in nurbs now and then converting to patches...then polies. AT least that is what the tutorial in this book sais to do. Can anyone offer some advice on nurbs eyelids please?

[bgdave39]

I tried again tonight with the way the book mentions and I absolutely cannot get the hang of it. There is something that I am missing out on or leaving oiut completely but I am having a lot of trouble making any since of their method.



*cries out for help*

[nottoshabi]

Hey why dont you try 2 half spheres and rotate them so they open and close with sdk's ?

[monsitj]

personally I don't recommend this method , it's the one way to model charactor , but i think it's has many draw back issue ,after you make the eye lid surface , you must find the way to blend it seamless to face model , this is pros and cons
pros
1. good for nurb charactor , dont have to care much about the topology of base face, because it's not multi patch method
cons
1. will have problem when the base face is extreme deform( blendshape) and limited emotion of face
2. will have rendering issue if you not plan , you will see a seam ( you have to check nurb tesselation, and have material trick to solve this)
this is in case of you decided to use it as final model not convert it to polygon , if your end result will be polygon , i recommend you to learn the poly modelling work flow .

any way if you familiar with this method , it will make good charactor too, so try the different way and decided what the best for you,

correct me if i'm wrong , and sorry for my english
:p

[Goon]

I mean no offense by this, but the charachter you are making is not sufficiently realistic to warrant full eyelids, nor is that probably what the book is suggesting. I'm assuming its just two hemispheres that can close. So here is something similar:
Cartoon Eyes tutorial (http://www.jawa9000.com/technical/eyes/eyes.htm)

http://www.learning-maya.com/ is a great place to learn maya.
3dbuzz.com has free training videos available for download, and there are many resources for you to learn, so if you are having trouble with the book or finish it, don't hesitate to branch out.

[M_O]

If you're just starting off with modeling, you might be better off starting with Polygon and SubD methods. Sculpting skill is the important part. The limitations and complexities of Nurbs will just get in your way at this point.

[bgdave39]

I am starting the model in nurbs, then converting to patches, then to polies and subD's. What I have so far was made pretty quickly and I am just going for a seamless facial model right now. I want realistic eyes with realistic looking eyelids.


PS the charecter is planned to be pretty funny looking. This is my last step before taking over to patches.


I've tried poly modeling a bit but I like the freeness that nurbs surfaces give and so faqr it is my preference. I have ehard it is reccomended to start in nurbs and then convert to polies and i like that method thus far?


ARe you all saying that I should ignore the eyelids for now because it will be easier to model when I convert to polies?

[DazP]

bgdave: Im not sure why you'd need to model a face using Nurbs, polygon and sub-D methods all together to be honest. Seems like trying to learn all 3 at once might be biting off more than you might be able to chew.

For what it's worth, I did a timelapse video last night which shows pretty clearly how I ( poly ) modeled eyelids for the head I did for the speedmodeling challenge. It's 12 meg though:

http://home.comcast.net/~dpattenden/images/cushing.avi

near final head is here ( Im on page 11 )

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1079081#post1079081

It may or may not help I dont know.
Have a look at all the entries in the challenge and study the wireframes and construction techniques. I think there's other timelapses and animated gifs etc up there. You will generally find most people using box poly modeling or sub-D's for faces these days for the most part.

[bgdave39]

THe book I am using has me under the impression that it helps to add surface continuity for good deformation. Maybe I should just convert now and use polies eh?



Also, how do I get that vid to play? When I click the link it opens up Win Media player but does not connect. Save as file won;t work either when it is DL'ed and played.

[DazP]

You should be able to just right click>save as. If it doesn't play Im guessing you dont have the right codec ( divx ) I dont know.

Im not telling you to change your technique by any means, Im just suggesting you look around at how other folks are doing heads. Im sure the book has some valid points but it just seems alot easier to me to conentrate on one technique at a time.

[bgdave39]

I am pretty new so I am still trying to establish my technique. I htought making nurbs first was common practice to rough out the shape and assure good deformation during animating?



YEah it was div-x. I opened it with my div-x player shortly afterwards and watched. Very helpful. I just converted my head over to polies and i am gonna try and finish it up that way esp. the eyelids. Your video was very helpful in understanding the method to poly eyelid modeling. Thank you very much for sharing that.


PS. Is there anything in particular I need to pay attention to to get good deformation in poly modeling?

[DazP]

Well, Im sure it probably is still common practise but Im also sure there are just as many people that get by without it.

Personally Im from a video games background which is probably why I skip the nurbs stuff. That and Im a lazy bastard.
I'll stress again that Im not trying to deter you from learning nurbs at all. Im simply saying you're better off sticking to one technique at a time for learning.

This is a classic poly tut that outlines in detail how he layed down his topology:
http://www.thehobbitguy.com/tutorials/polymodeling/index.html

and again it's a different method of starting out but a perfectly acceptable and damn good one. It's really up to you to discover what works best.

Study some wireframes. Look at stuff of the likes of Bay Raitt and how he talks about edge loops which is the key to good deformation:

http://cube.phlatt.net/home/spiraloid/tutorial/modeling.html

[bgdave39]

Thanks you soo much Daz. I love the helpfulness of this community. I learn more here than at the college I pay 5 G's a year for. Much thanks man you have been very helpful.

[bgdave39]

Edge loops scare me. THat explained much more than I knew already but I am still missing something vital in the concept.

[DazP]

Dont worry about it. That little something that you're missing isn't surprising since edge loops are a hard concept to grasp on static paper.

But as soon as you start to make some simple faces and create a couple of morph targets for animation, you'll soon discover what topology works and what doesn't. Again, study some wireframes and you'll begin to notice a distinct pattern ( e.g radial lines from the mouth ) . Eventually with a bit of practise you'll just get it and you'll have the topology down in your head as you're creating a face.

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