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Chaz
08-04-2004, 03:23 PM
i can't completely understand this point : do Lw subpatches are really not standard? could you elaborate more?
however : I read that Modo has its own subpatch algorithm, but it has the cool possibility to support any algorithm you want even one written by you if u want. Now this is way cool.

Catmull-Clark is a more standard algorithm... Maya and XSI use it (and others). It's just a pain really - if you own Lightwave at home and model in it - to bring your models to work or school and have them not look quite right.

You'd think Newtek would've switched a long time ago so we'd at least be able to use 5 point patches like everyone else.

Proximus
08-04-2004, 06:33 PM
Hmmm...secret presentation...

I dont know if this will mean a Siggraph launch, but things are getting close, also dont forget they are looking for demo artists..

Nemoid
08-04-2004, 08:36 PM
Hey thanx Chaz for the explaination. so Catmull clark or Doo Sabin or both :) seems the best way to go even because they support n sided poligons.However, Since there are studios actually modelling in Lw and animating into other packages, maybe they tweak and refine their shapes in the high end app after making a good base in Lw.

Modo seems to have its own algorithm though wich, at this point maybe will be better/faster than the previous ones?hope it will have also catmull an doo however even if they were not mentioned.

retinajoy
08-04-2004, 09:00 PM
I always thought LW sub patches were excellent, fast and as good as or better than other packages implementation apart from not supporting ngons. That's partly why LW modeller has been always respected in the industry. But my opinion may be outdated as I haven't looked properly at other packages recent implementation of it, so maybe things are different now.

Anyway, Modo looks as if it could be a big step up from what I am currently using for modelling and I am looking forward to the details and a download demo.

BAROBA
08-05-2004, 08:51 AM
from luxology.net :

where's modo? 08.03.2004 Luxology will be showing off our revolutionary new 3D modeling platform, modo, at SIGGRAPH 2004. You can visit any of the following booths to see a demonstration:

AMD (#1334)
Apple (#1401)
ATI (#1101)
PNY (#1746)

modo will also be highlighted at our special technology screening on Tuesday evening at the Museum of Neon Art (special registration and tickets required) - details below.

http://www.luxology.net/common/img/blank.gif

StephanD
08-05-2004, 10:58 AM
Modo seems to have its own algorithm though wich, at this point maybe will be better/faster than the previous ones?hope it will have also catmull an doo however even if they were not mentioned.

I think I remember(not sure) having read that Modo will have two preview modes,one similar to LW subpatches and the other a Catmull-Clark.

Nemoid
08-05-2004, 01:36 PM
From Brad's interview :
The modo subdivision surface engine is also extensible and can be replaced by third parties. In modo r1 we have included 2 subdivision algorithms. The default modo subd engine is designed to support ngons and edge weighting. The alternate subd engine is visually identical to the Lightwave 3d engine. This allows the user to model in that style , or simply use it to check for artifacts prior to export.

Default subpatch algotithm seems similar to Catmul clark,but may be different as well, while the other is similar to Lw's one i think without n gons for a faster performance. Anyway the important thing is that they smooth similarly to standard Catmull we have in other apps so that one could export his mesh with no real prob as stated in the interview.

Then there's the cool third party possibility :drool:

Thalaxis
08-05-2004, 03:09 PM
while the other is similar to Lw's one i think without n gons for a faster performance.
It probably has nothing to do with performance, and everything to do with facilitating clean interaction with LightWave. Read it -- he specifically said that it's visually identical to LW's, and Lux has been pushing their clean interaction with other software quite a bit.

Cyberdigitus
08-05-2004, 04:44 PM
I wonder how/if Modo will do skinning for character setup. This might have been discussed before in this age long thread, but I think it will be in, since there is the uv editor, and somewhere in the screens you can see weight maps and even morph maps mentioned. Anyway, that means it must have some kind of bones system too i suppose. I'd be happy if this would be true, and it would play well together with motionbuilder.

Visualz Sphere
08-05-2004, 04:46 PM
I think Lightwave's subd's are pretty good except for the pinching. I wonder if modo will still have that same kind of pinching in its Lightwave preview mode.

lwbob
08-05-2004, 07:47 PM
Anyway, that means it must have some kind of bones system too i suppose.
I don't get that from anything I've seen. LW uses weight maps for a bunch of things, not just bones. If they are looking to bring models into other programs you might want to bring in any weighting too. They might have a way to get painted weights out of Modo and use them for soft binds in Maya. But that is just speculation.

Nemoid
08-05-2004, 08:28 PM
It probably has nothing to do with performance, and everything to do with facilitating clean interaction with LightWave. Read it -- he specifically said that it's visually identical to LW's, and Lux has been pushing their clean interaction with other software quite a bit.
Yap maybe you're right on this point. BTW usually in other apps , standard subpatches are a bit slower compared to non standard Lw ones. so introducing the same kinda subpatches ( fixed from their problems like pinching and uv seams ) could be also a way to make interaction faster.Visually doesn't mean identical of course.

In the opposite case a great algorithm with ngons and edge weighting and fast at the same time could be the case of modo. a great thing would be have the possibility to model directly in subpatch like u can do with Lw, but have n gons and edge weighting at your disposal, to cut and fix your smoothed mesh on the fly. modelling that way would be really fast and fun :)

Thalaxis
08-05-2004, 08:38 PM
In the opposite case a great algorithm with ngons and edge weighting and fast at the same time could be the case of modo. a great thing would be have the possibility to model directly in subpatch like u can do with Lw, but have n gons and edge weighting at your disposal, to cut and fix your smoothed mesh on the fly. modelling that way would be really fast and fun :)
It sounds like you ought to give Silo a shot ;)

Galo
08-05-2004, 09:18 PM
Will there be any cross grade pricing for existing owners of Lightwave , Maya , XSI , etc.

Because of the number of years we spent in the Lightwave community , there will be a "friends and family" upgrade price for Lightwave end users , including a special bonus for users of Lightwave 8.

Hmmm..... interesting

minus23
08-05-2004, 09:47 PM
On the note of subpatch algorithms: I thought I had heard it mentioned some time ago.. Heh.. probably over a year ago.. that you will be able to pick what kind of method you would like to use. Also... I would vote to *not* have the same behavior of LW subpatches... this after using XSI's default subpatches... ( you can pick which method you use in XSI aswell). I like it when a perfect box turns into a perfect sphere... not like lightwaves box to near capsule like algorithm. I really don't think the algorithm effects viewport speed much... but I'm not a programmer either so who knows.

BinarySoup
08-10-2004, 02:28 PM
well, from the new homepage at www.luxology.com (http://www.luxology.com),

A key element within modo is its Advanced Subdivision Surfaces support. modo's native subdivision surfaces (SDS) allow for support of n-gons (polygons with more than 4 vertices), edge creasing via subdivision weights, and very smooth resolution of complex topology. modo's native SubDs are Catmull Clark-compliant. modo also allows you to work in Subpatch mode, which is a faster, but less accurate, and supports triangles and quads. pretty much sums it up.

rock
08-10-2004, 02:47 PM
Don't most modelers already has this? Silo ($109), XSI, Maya, Max.

"A key element within modo is its Advanced Subdivision Surfaces support. modo's native subdivision surfaces (SDS) allow for support of n-gons (polygons with more than 4 vertices), edge creasing via subdivision weights, and very smooth resolution of complex topology. modo's native SubDs are Catmull Clark-compliant. modo also allows you to work in Subpatch mode, which is a faster, but less accurate, and supports triangles and quads."

StephanD
08-10-2004, 04:30 PM
Most modelers don't have subpatch mode.

Caine777
08-31-2004, 06:32 PM
If understand this subpatch thing correctly, Amapi Pro also has that function. If you model a simple box, then smooth it, you can modify the original box model instead of the smoothed version, which allows for smoother and faster, but less accurate, modelling.

nuclearfessel
08-31-2004, 08:43 PM
If understand this subpatch thing correctly, Amapi Pro also has that function. If you model a simple box, then smooth it, you can modify the original box model instead of the smoothed version, which allows for smoother and faster, but less accurate, modelling.
but LW's subpatch only works with Tri's or Quad based geometry.

CIM
09-01-2004, 03:52 AM
Most modelers don't have subpatch mode.

All modelers have at least a "subpatch mode".

onlooker
09-01-2004, 05:35 AM
All modelers have at least a "subpatch mode".

Are you sure about that? I was running under the assumption that most modelers have the Catmull-Clark Subdivision surface mode, but I thought the Sub patch mode was different, and less common. I could be wrong.

But If I'm not I cant wait to tell you to RTFM! :bounce: :applause: :bounce: :applause: :thumbsup:

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