SSS: C&C, please?

[AdamT]

I think it looks great! :thumbsup: Don't really have any criticisms at all. As far as an environment, mdme_sadie's looks nice, and your conference room pic is awesome. That seriously looks like a photograph! Is it a render or a compositing job?

[MJV]

The first two images are photos? If not then great job. ;) Assuming only the last render isn't a photo, then I would say first and foremost you need to add some reflection to the material. The original material is highly reflective. Use a reflective sky object to test the reflections. This should help a lot. Also, be sure to model the interior light source (the bulb) so it's reflections show as well.

[brammelo]

Thanks Adam,

I'm afraid the middle picture IS a photograph. Remember, it's an existing fixture which is on sale. The photograph comes from the designer's website.

As to the environment: in the photograph you see the fixtures hanging from the ceiling. They can't be put on the floor without having the lightbulb banging against the plexi. They really need to be pendants. So I'm afraid I can't use Per's environment - unless I would "hang" the fixtures, but I don't think it would be a nice image.

Cheers,
BaRa

[MJV]

So the first image is a render? Well then great work.

[danb]

i would suggest adding some noise to get the random translucent effect in the picture. yours is too perfect.:thumbsup:

[brammelo]

Originally posted by MJV
The first two images are photos? If not then great job. ;) Assuming only the last render isn't a photo, then I would say first and foremost you need to add some reflection to the material. The original material is highly reflective. Use a reflective sky object to test the reflections. This should help a lot. Also, be sure to model the interior light source (the bulb) so it's reflections show as well.

Hi MV,

The first one's a render, the second is a photograph of the real fixtures. The reflection you see in the render doesn't exist in reality - the real lamps are made of plexi, and once lit they don't reflect anything (as you can see in the photograph, the image in the middle). What I'm trying to do is to get as close as possible to the ones in the photograph (the middle image). The bottom image, a render made with SSS, is a first test in this direction. And of course, it can be improved - at least, that's what I think :)

Cheers,
BaRa

[brammelo]

Thanks danb,

Good remark about the noise. I think I could indeed try that. Do you know how to do that? Should i combine the SSS shader with a noise channel in a layer shader? Or should I simply use the color, transparency or diffuse channel for this - in your opinion?

cheers,
BaRa

[MJV]

Originally posted by brammelo
Hi MV,

The first one's a render, the second is a photograph of the real fixtures. The reflection you see in the render doesn't exist in reality - the real lamps are made of plexi, and once lit they don't reflect anything (as you can see in the photograph, the image in the middle). What I'm trying to do is to get as close as possible to the ones in the photograph (the middle image). The bottom image, a render made with SSS, is a first test in this direction. And of course, it can be improved - at least, that's what I think :)

Cheers,
BaRa

Well that first render looks superb. I really like it. About the reflections, they aren't strong but there is a little as you can see the inside tube part is reflecting a little of the interior illumination. The biggest problem I see you have right now is that you aren't using the right light falloff. Try using inverse square falloff and you should get a pattern of quick falloff more liike that seen in the picture. Finally, for backlighting lamps I frequently just use Banji (or translucent or backlight or whatever it's called now). It's faster and more straightforward to use than SSS.

[flingster]

very cool...i like the mdme_sadie environment.
comment but not answer how to fix...on yours the blend from yellow glow to orange is far to smooth.

on the real object the joints are more illuminated glowing yellow..then slightly blend to another colour ridge...then the orange. its far less smooth than yours..dunno how you fix though sorry....good good work though.:thumbsup:
very unusual light and excellent example for use with SSS.:thumbsup:

[brammelo]

Thanks for the fast replies, guys. Guess it's up to me now to implement your suggestions. I don't really relish the prospect of tweaking this baby (lazy bean-feeling right now), but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do ;)

Kind regards,
BaRa

[brammelo]

Originally posted by MJV
Finally, for backlighting lamps I frequently just use Banji (or translucent or backlight or whatever it's called now). It's faster and more straightforward to use than SSS.

The first image has actually been made with Banji, but I didn't succeed in getting it the way I wanted. I went for a glassy look instead (with Banji and radiosity).

Cheers,
BaRa

[Ben Sones]

Nice work! The SSS settings on the bottom image look pretty much dead-on--it's a close match to the photo. I'd love to see a tutorial on SSS, if you have time to make one. I just got 8.5 in the mail yesterday, so I'm still trying to figure stuff out...

[LucentDreams]

Yours is looking too perfect right now, definitely change the fall off as suggested, but also I think you need to tweak your model, its too it missing the seams where the tubes meet, like its too smooth in yours when they connect.

[brammelo]

Hi Ben,

SSS is really simple to use. Just follow the 8.5 addendum and that's it (at least, that's what I did). The image took about 15 minutes tweaking on an old P3.

About the tutorial: I'm afraid it will be in Dutch. I'm writing a C4D follow-up for the following VectorWorks modeling tutorial (also in Dutch): http://213.193.230.92/NL/Tutorials/01.htm. Of course, if Dutch isn't a problem for you, then you could always use it ;)

Cheers,
BaRa

[brammelo]

Originally posted by Kaiskai
... but also I think you need to tweak your model, its too it missing the seams where the tubes meet, like its too smooth in yours when they connect.

Hi Kai,

The model in itself is in reality really smooth (I saw this lamp at a design show, and those fixtures were right in front of our booth, so I had a chance to take a good look at them) . It's only when lit that you have this effect. I guess it has to do with the thickness of the material, which cannot be checked because it's at the inside (unless you would break the lamp). Of course, I still have to try to recreate it. Grmbl.

Cheers,
BaRa

[flingster]

if light was brighter but shorter falloff wouldn't this help...forgive my inadequate knowledge in this.:shrug:

[brammelo]

Originally posted by brammelo
...I guess it has to do with the thickness of the materiall...

Quoting myself, how crazy can you get ;)

But: it seems that what Kai said did point me in the right direction: after making the wall thinner at the "hub" (where the tubes intersect), I got the following image:

http://users.pandora.be/laplacebara/images/crosslight03.jpg

Seems that SSS follows some physical rules after all. Three cheers for Maxon! :)

Cheers,
BaRa

[flingster]

only comment would be sweet result...well done bud...worth the extra effort...:buttrock: :eek:

[LucentDreams]

Originally posted by brammelo
http://users.pandora.be/laplacebara/images/crosslight03.jpg
Cheers,
BaRa

Glad I was of some sort of kind of help in a way. (my soul purpose is not to show you but to guide you young grasshopper)

Uhmm yeah anyways, very nice render, muych better imo, is the dot on the center of the top the whole for the cord? If not what is it?


Oh, and (self plug here) ben look for the thread I posted just the other day with some sample SSS files, should help you out a fair bit, the thread has some explanations as to what you should lookm at in each file.

[brammelo]

Originally posted by MJV
The biggest problem I see you have right now is that you aren't using the right light falloff. Try using inverse square falloff and you should get a pattern of quick falloff more liike that seen in the picture.

I guess it's just me being clumsy, but when I use different light falloff settings, I still get the same result. I compared the results in PS (checking the difference), but all images are the same:

Falloff: none

http://users.pandora.be/laplacebara/none.jpg

Falloff: inverse square, radius 5000

http://users.pandora.be/laplacebara/5000.jpg

Falloff: inverse square, radius 500

http://users.pandora.be/laplacebara/500.jpg

What am I doing wrong? Am I doing something wrong, or is the SSS falloff entirely controled by the SSS channel settings? The manual (addendum) doesn't really tell...

Cheers,
BaRa

[MJV]

Falloff of the inverse square light only begins outside the raidius of the light. Everything inside the radius will have even lighting. It's documented but should be in bold type since most users could never guess at it. I played around at work recreating your light because they didn't have any real work for me to do. If you like I could post the scene file, but it doesn't use SSS, it uses Backlight.

[brammelo]

Hi MV,

Thanks for the tip. I see my mistake now. I'm interested in seeing your file. Could you put it online? I'm curious to see the difference between SSS and Banji.

Thanks in advance,
BaRa

[Kirl]

I don't know how render intensive SSS is, but I think in this case you can get simiar results with a gradient in the luminance channel (with more direct controll).

Not dishing the SSS or the image, but that was my first thought.

I still need to get my head around SSS, haven't played with it yet, so a tutorial would be most excellent!! :thumbsup:

[adeptus minor]

I know a little off the topic but those lights are sooo cool can I have the link to the designers web page I wouldnt mind having a few of those unless there like 200-500 each in which case no thank you

[brammelo]

Originally posted by adeptus minor
I know a little off the topic but those lights are sooo cool can I have the link to the designers web page I wouldnt mind having a few of those unless there like 200-500 each in which case no thank you

They look cool in the picture, but in my opinion they're not that fancy in real life. I've seen them a couple of times in the flesh in offices, studio decors etc., and it was quite disapointing. But that's only my point of view.

However, the designer's site is www.mnodesign.nl, and in they are sold by www.dark.be.

Cheers,
BaRa

[MJV]

http://www.mvpny.com/OrangeLamp6.jpg

Hi again. Ok, here is my experiment using Backlight.

The file is here: http://www.mvpny.com/OrangeLamp6.c4d.zip

In the backlight dialog check out the Clip setting and the difference it makes in the reflection of the lamp. Render time is 11 seconds.

[brammelo]

Thanks MV,

I've been looking into it, and it seems there are some things I'm going to steal from your file. Don't worry, your name will be mentioned in capitals ;)

I especially like the fact that you modified the light - contrast on 65% (didn't think of that, but it's soooo much better) and a transparent noise shader for, well, noise (I tried to solve it in the lamp material).

About render times: I have the impression that Banji/backlight is a bit faster. For comparable scenes, I got 20seconds for Banji/backlight and 24 seconds for SSS. Of course, I used quite a lot of samples for SSS, so that will also influence the result.

Again: thanks a ton :)

Cheers,
BaRa

[rizon]

I am totally new to shaders but i gave it a try with mjv doc. with sss

[brammelo]

Hi Rizon,

Glad to see you're still using C4D. Last time I saw something you made was aroung august / september, when you made that commercial for Kozzmozz at the Vooruit. I still have the flyer somewhere :).

Anything new in the pipeline? How's the AE-export from C4D working out?

Cheers,
BaRa

[rizon]

hey brammelo!
i love dark too, i like the concrete t-lamp... I just picked up again with c4d, had a lot of work the last 3 months but nothing had to do with 3d. I am planning on modelling my first car, but it seems i forget a lot of stuff... nice to hear you kept the flyer.

;)

[brammelo]

latest update, thanks to MV, but still with SSS:

http://users.pandora.be/laplacebara/images/crosslightanimation01.mov

Cheers,
BaRa

[brammelo]

Às I said before, this image is supposed to be based on a VectorWorks model. Untill now, I used a low poly Cinema 4D model in a weighted HyperNURBS object. Below you can see (a) the VectorWorks NURBS wire and (b) the result of finishing the VectorWorks model in C4D:

http://users.pandora.be/laplacebara/images/crosslightmodel-wireframe.jpg

http://users.pandora.be/laplacebara/images/crosslightmodel-cinema-4D.jpg

I think I'm gonna leave the model as it is - it's close enough (for me) to the real stuff. Next thing is placing it in an environment. I'll keep you updated. Thanks for all the support and intelligent remarks.

Cheers,
BaRa

[flingster]

good work guys learn't a lots...thanks..:thumbsup:

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