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bmcallister
01-09-2004, 02:59 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/galleryimages/54711/Revelation20_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/galleryimages/54711/Revelation20.jpg)

Thought you would enjoy this. By Justin Gerard of Portland Studios. All Photoshop.

We're entering it in Spectrum and Expose. After a little more development and finishing off.

Any thoughts? I have some, but I'll retain them til I hear what you all have to say.

Brannon

picksel
01-09-2004, 05:00 PM
Arghl!Humph!Whops!...My god!... Well...
Amazing, the dragon is wonderful.
how many hours did you work on this?
:thumbsup: :applause: :drool:
:bowdown:

bmcallister
01-09-2004, 05:08 PM
a day.

picksel
01-09-2004, 05:30 PM
a day.

thank you for you answer.
I will work very very very even more seriously (I try)
It's not disheartening situation perhaps more motivate
and more congratulation :thumbsup:

Ninja-Magus
01-10-2004, 02:48 AM
Wow.... O_O.... not only is it a great picture, but to me it has a lot more meaning behind it. Great work :). It's my desktop now :D!

dimitrios_c
01-10-2004, 07:38 AM
Excellent image. I like the way you used the lighting in the clouds to frame the image and set a nice composition. :thumbsup: :applause: :beer:

olijosman
01-10-2004, 12:23 PM
OOUCH!! great image!! the colors composition, style.... :applause:

lildragon
01-10-2004, 02:20 PM
Excellent work and very nice composition, the wings could use some more fine tuning, but I guess you already know that. Very nice

[Plugged]

salud!

flegos
01-10-2004, 02:37 PM
Exellent modeling, nice composition!
Congratulation! :buttrock: :bowdown:

SiK
01-10-2004, 02:38 PM
omg It looks great.
One question: Can you post an hihger resolution of this image?
Because I would like to see all the details :)

insanelight
01-10-2004, 02:43 PM
Really love the clouds and smoke.
Very cool light effects and composition! :thumbsup:

TuLe
01-10-2004, 02:50 PM
I love this piece!
There's so much mistical attributes in the scene that really takes me to it...
The Dragon is awesome, very intimidating and powerfull.
The red render on his shape is great and makes me think of a burning town underneath him...!
But the celestial warrior don't strike me like the dragon. Maybe his postion is a little of, i don't get his legs, they look like in a ankward position...!
But enough said, you got a brillian art there, congrats!
I just puted it on my desk for a while!

Franz
01-10-2004, 02:56 PM
yes indeed a beautiful piece. I like the bottom part of the shield. :thumbsup:

ArtyShock
01-10-2004, 02:58 PM
For starters, it's a very fine drawing, especially if it was made in just a day. The colour scheme gives it a nice authentic feeling.

Well, for critique:
I think the smear of smoke/clouds in the foreground is a bit too distracting. I see its function of giving depth to the picture, but somehow it's a bit off.

The bent leg of the paladdin/angel seems out of proportion.

Just a little more detail to the angel's wings and the row of teeth lighted by the dragon's inner fire.

Rubberduckie
01-10-2004, 03:27 PM
WOW! FANTABULISTIC! :thumbsup: This is excellent...only lil gripe would b tt the Wings r kinda stiff...cos the feathers r all bunched up too evenly...but heY! ITs a GREAT piece! :) Dang...Portland Studios iz churning out mighty fine stuff...

Cheers! :beer:

NicoDN
01-10-2004, 03:34 PM
Great picture ! :love: Congratulations for this exceptionnal work !
:applause: :applause:

EricUNSL
01-10-2004, 03:45 PM
Will anything really be done to this piece bmcallister? Whenever you post works from your studio and ask for constructive criticism from the members who sometimes pick out flaws and have good constructive feedback, we never get to see the result of all that feedback. Do your artists go back and make changes to pieces( however minor) even though the work has already been sent to the client? You're asking us if we think anything else need be done to this piece. If a large number of people all have critiques that are similar to your thoughts on the painting will we see a revision? Is Justin a member? Can he post his thoughts and feelings on the piece?

It's a nice piece. Strong composition and color. The dragon's scales, lower jaw and underbelly could use more detail work to define the body. A few subtle orange highlights on the underbelly scales to strengthen the idea that it is above a fire.

The highlights on the dragon scales between the smoke trail and the spikes could be more subtle or taken out completely. It draws my eye away from the focal point. The skylight on the body close to the face is good enough.

If you're entering this in spectrum you're up against Lockwood and all the rest of the guys that put more than a day into painting a dragon. Good luck!

bmcallister
01-10-2004, 03:47 PM
I've posted a newer version of the image. The scales on the dragon are improved and some other details are more finalized. You may want to reload the page if the original is in your cache or something.

Nlafakis
01-10-2004, 03:55 PM
To have created this much in a single day is really something. I think the only thing that draws my attention away though is the lighting. I like the fact that the arch angel's right wing devides the dark clouds from the light ones, but the left wing does not. I think it would work better if his wings were the definition between the light/dark. I think it would create more symbolism. I don't know what all this talk about the bent knee is for, I think it looks fine.

I do agree with the previous comment though from Eric UNSL If you're entering this in spectrum you're up against Lockwood and all the rest of the guys that put more than a day into painting a dragon. Good luck!

There are a lot of artists out there who put days into their paintings, I'm not saying that you wouldn't, but its something to think about.

bmcallister
01-10-2004, 03:57 PM
Do your artists go back and make changes to pieces( however minor) even though the work has already been sent to the client? You're asking us if we think anything else need be done to this piece. If a large number of people all have critiques that are similar to your thoughts on the painting will we see a revision?

Thanks for that last reply Eric UNSL.

Those are some great questions that deserve answers.

Yes, the artists do go back and shore up the image if there's some good constructive thoughts. I was seeing some of the same flaws myself before I posted, but I still wanted to see what everyone else was saying...

I do need to be better about posting the final results up on the site.

Sure, Justin could post his comments. That would be great. I was just trying to save him some time. He has been reading through the comments posted for his other works.

Our company hasn't been primarily focusing on fantasy art so far---we've been working more on moving towards doing concept art for more mainstream animated films and TV series'. This piece is more of a departure from the everyday type work. Although I have to say I really like it.

By the way, here's the Biblical passage that the piece is based on:

Revelation 20:1-3
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit[1] and a great chain. 2And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

Thanks again for what you brought up!

Brannon

EricUNSL
01-10-2004, 04:01 PM
Much better. Good to know I'm not crazy and that you saw the same problems I saw. I like the extension of the wings. Justin did good on this one. His work reminds me of my friend Daisuke.

Good Luck :beer:

oxhido
01-10-2004, 04:08 PM
no words. just incredible.

congratulations

ivan.oxhido

3D-ima Green
01-10-2004, 05:18 PM
really beautiful work :)

arliss
01-10-2004, 05:22 PM
To have created this much in a single day is really something

I think this is a relative statement- one day could mean 1 hour or it could mean a good 15-16 hours or more in which case I think that the piece is pretty much realistic output for the time put in. Van Gogh use to churn out paintings in one day of furious brush work- it all depends on the work style of the individual and how they are able to accomplish their vision.

That being said great piece! :thumbsup:

onlooker
01-10-2004, 05:25 PM
One of the best I've seen in a while. That says a lot with the great talent hanging around here.
I have nothing to criticize.

bmcallister
01-10-2004, 05:33 PM
I think this is a relative statement- one day could mean 1 hour or it could mean a good 15-16 hours or more in which case I think that the piece is pretty much realistic output for the time put in.

Exactly. When I said one day---I did mean more like 15-16 hours. Not that it couldn't be even better with more time spent. That's quite true. But someone asked how long it took, so I just was honest.

Brannon

b-lame
01-10-2004, 05:59 PM
desktop. :)
very good pic. i particularly like the flattness, the "2d mood" it got, although of course i don't know if that's what's been intended.
with so many illustrators going for either hyper-minimalistic or close-2-3d-shading-and-rendering styles these days, the mood this piece's got is special, somehow.
good luck with expose.

chrisWhite
01-10-2004, 06:09 PM
That's got to be the collest thing I've seen all week! :buttrock: That is soooooo awesome, no crits on my part I'm just blown away. :thumbsup:

jgerard
01-10-2004, 06:19 PM
Hi Everyone, this is Justin.
Thanks so much for the critiques and encouragements, this forum rocks. Eric UNSL brings up a number of good points so I will try to address some of them here plus I have some qeustions for everyone.
1. about the advice I get: I apologize that you guys don't always see the corrected versions, (a poblem that will be fixed) I love the advice that I get here and I so far have always altered my works accordingly after recieving it. This piece has already undergone several diferent changes from when I first posted it based upon alot of your feedback. Before we send it off, we will post the new one. and thanks again for all the serious advice that has been given, keep it coming.
2. about me posting: I wish I could do more posting, the combination of a poor isp and a tight work schedule make it difficult and Brannon has been awesome in getting alot of this feedback to me. But good point Eric, I will be doing more of it in the future.
3. i worked longer than a day on this all total. to work out the sketch and composition in my head i had been sketching this piece off and on for weeks when i had spare time(plus getting classical reference). i new what i wanted to do, just not how i was going to do it. the actual painting of it took relatively less time. (as brannon said, 17 hours or so) but once you have a clear idea in your head of your work, all that is left is the excecution of it.

qeustions:
1 are the wings convincing? do you interperet them as real and tangible? should I make them glow more or is the realistic darkness in them good?

2 does the picture draw you in? If the picture does not create an all-encompassing powerful mood and effect upon the viewer, than to a certain extent it is a failure.
I wanted the picture to convey the raw cataclysmic earth-ending power between the two spiritual forces which I have portrayed here. At the same time I also wanted to reach back to the majesty and presence of the great renaissance painters, like caravaggio and benjamin west and their contemporaries.

3 do the clouds distract or lead you through the composition? I wanted them to be a strong part of the composition, leading the eye down to the dragon from the top middle and then through the smoke and wing back up, so that the picture remains interesting to the eye. was this succesful or how could it be improved?

again, thanks so much for your feedback, I look forward to the hearing what you think.

Quizboy
01-10-2004, 06:22 PM
every artist works different

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To have created this much in a single day is really something
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think this is a relative statement- one day could mean 1 hour or it could mean a good 15-16 hours or more in which case I think that the piece is pretty much realistic output for the time put in. Van Gogh use to churn out paintings in one day of furious brush work- it all depends on the work style of the individual and how they are able to accomplish their vision.

Whether it's an 8-hour work day or 16 hours...to start with nothing and end up with this within any 24 hour period is absolutely amazing, and clearly the sign of seasoned professionalism. Fabulous!

By the way I agree with using the wings to clearly define the separation between light and dark, especially since it's based on a biblical reference. good luck!

Coldblooded
01-10-2004, 06:23 PM
Sometimes you shouldn't talk, just sit here and watch...!!!

AWESOME WORK!!!:bowdown:

bmcallister
01-10-2004, 06:26 PM
Not that I really want to brag about the talent...

But, again, note that Justin is a 23-year-old who just graduated from college in May 2003.

I hope he doesn't mind me posting that.

Brannon

Arctos
01-10-2004, 06:26 PM
Quite impressive, and powerful.
something that hasn't been mentioned that is cool is how the clouds seems spilt, down the path the angle took.

since you asked for criticism, here are some picky things i noticed.
The anatomy of the angel seems a little jumbled. The armor makes it hard to tell, but the wing on our right seems to come out of the middle of his back while the other wing comes out further from the center. It's also unclear how the forward shoulder-piece relates to the arm underneath or the torso.

Also i don't have any complaints about it, but the angle's face one of if not the main focal point. Anything done to make it cooler or more powerful would take the whole picture up a level.

But, it's already Great!

elnady
01-10-2004, 06:33 PM
Excelent Work :buttrock:

Garma
01-10-2004, 08:28 PM
very very excellent work. I think the jury won't have trouble on this one :)

CONNAN
01-10-2004, 08:38 PM
My only crits are; the right arm looks weird to me. I believe thats a shoulder guard yet, you have it where the elbow should be. Maybe I've scrutinized a little too much...dunno, but I think if you stare at it, it looks a bit weird....or maybe im just weird..? Others here have mentioned the position of the legs, I personally like it. Looks quite heroic. One more the dragons teeth. The teeth on the right are all right but can be done better, however the teeth on the left side have no detail at all. Thats it!, otherwise very powerful indeed!!!!:bowdown:

Mananetwork
01-10-2004, 08:45 PM
HOLY SH** :bowdown:
I Love the picture. I love these kind of midevil dragons and knights... The angel wings just made it look 120X better!
The clouds, the smoke, the fire.. AMAZIN'!!!

BoydLake
01-10-2004, 09:06 PM
Nice Image! Here are a few comments:

For all of the drama in the image that brings the eye to the knight/angel, the figure of the knight is posed rather weakly.

a. The wings don't really reflect the rotation of the upper torso and shoulders

b. The right arm doesn't read well... and it doesn't really project that a blow is about to be struck, it's more reflective of a back-hand follow-through motion... or a tightrope walker unsure of his balance. Better to raise the arm and probably rotate the right wing to reveal the rear rather than have it be so symmetric to the other wing.

c. I find myself wondering.... where is his left arm/hand? The shield would cover most of the arm, but I'd expect to see at least something of a left hand or fist. Where's his other leg?

d. Proportion. For such a large foot/leg, his upper torso and head seem a bit small.

The shield is nicely rendered, but I'd re-work and re-think the pose of the knight/angel. That's the only real weak part of the image.

Kel Solaar
01-10-2004, 09:32 PM
The composition work very well! I love the color scheme, excellent work :)

nObedienz
01-10-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by bmcallister
Thought you would enjoy this. By Justin Gerard of Portland Studios. All Photoshop.

We're entering it in Spectrum and Expose. After a little more development and finishing off.

Any thoughts? I have some, but I'll retain them til I hear what you all have to say.

Brannon


Here's a thought;

Add it to the book already :scream:

I'm out of words, the guardian angel, the dragon - left me breathless on the floor! :D

mamurphy
01-10-2004, 11:07 PM
Outstanding work:thumbsup:

I agree about the proportions of the knight. He just seems a bit akward.

Using the "V" shaped clouds to direct the eye to the center of action is brilliant. A great example of terrific composition.

bscott
01-11-2004, 12:00 AM
the piece looks very falt, I have no concept of the depth or relative scale between the knight and dragon. This is because the lighting is very inconsistent. It is also very confusing what parts of anatomy of the dragon we are seeing. I like the overall feeling of the colors and comp, but the wing coming from the right side, really throws me off. Still, 1 day.. nice work

EricUNSL
01-11-2004, 12:38 AM
Hello Justin,

Welcome to CGtalk!!!

I like the retouching you have done to the painting so far. To answer some of your questions... Are the wings convincing? Almost. Lighting and tangibility aside, you need to take into account that the angel's wings are attached to the body and will move with the body accordingly. Study a bird in flight. See the V-shape created as the wings are flapping. Unless your figure just dropped out of the sky without flapping his wings there should be movement. Right now they are angled but still flat while his shoulders and upper torso are arched forward. Also he's got big wings and he is landing into an up draft of hot air. You show his hair blowing back but the ends of the wings should be doing the same. If you're gonna go as far as to detail a shield you might as well handle the other little details. The wings don't need to glow. The realistic lighting works fine. Let your composition direct the eye. You already have a big arrow shape pointing the eye, no need to make it glow.

Your clouds are really thick and some are hard edged. The edges could be softer especially up toward the top within the warm light. Thinner wisps of cloud. clouds aren't thick masses all the way to the visable edge.
Right now there's a bit to much contrast in the clouds within the light. The ones closest to his right wing are ok but as it goes back the shadow value could be 1-2 values lighter.

I won't nitpick the figure proportions. Enough of him is covered by the shield for it not to matter. We all know what's behind the shield and it doesn't both my eye. However I must agree with Boyd Lake: The right arm doesn't read well... and it doesn't really project that a blow is about to be struck. It would be nice to see a variation where the angel's arm is raised to strike or plunge the blade into the dragon. That would convey more action and further explain what will happen.

I really see where you referenced. It totally makes the difference.
Never understand why so many brag about painting without reference. The dragon's inner teeth are flat. Why? Alot of work for something that will most likely be printed 3"x5" but you'll know the detail is there and it will read better. I look forward to seeing any further updates. You've still got plenty of time.

Good luck!!

azvin
01-11-2004, 01:21 AM
thatīs amazing work... i wish someday i could do something like that... congrats!!!!

:bowdown: :bowdown:

keight
01-11-2004, 04:28 AM
Justin, this piece is gorgeous.

I too, have a point to add that may end up "for future reference". The shield carried by the archangel sort of floats in front of him looking gorgeous, instead of fitting properly on his arm. I am including a diagram of the grip positions on the fighting shields in my garage. Here is the link: http://www.geocities.com/kvcwgraphics/gallery10.html

michaelb
01-11-2004, 01:06 PM
Hi,
Just thought I'd chime in, too. I think it has very strong composition, and is very focused on the subject. (Boo Satan, Hooray for God! I like the way the Book turns out. :D ) Some things I would change if it were mine to change: The armor on the angel looks like dull iron. It seems a bit too close to the dull iron cast of the dragon. I'd make it brighter, and catch some more of of that wonderful highlighting from overhead. I would change the angel's body positions as noted here numerous times before to read easier. The biggest thing I notice about that is the wings don't seem centered where they connect to his body, they seem shifted a bit to his right. About the lighting, I'd strengthen the white component of the highlighting on the wings and the clouds, but definitely keep a lot of that "golden halo" feel to it. I think that would make the angel seem more overwhelming as he descends. Maybe throw in some more colors of the spectrum in the upper lighting to play up the difference between the heavenly and the demonic. All in all, it is very, very nice work. Thanks for posting!

Best regards,
Michael B.

DAREONER
01-11-2004, 01:12 PM
very excellent !

eshiu
01-11-2004, 05:59 PM
great pic.......I do have some quick comments. I find the values are competing a bit. WHen I squint my eyes, it sorta bounces between the dragona nd the flying guy. I love the color scheme but do that thee could be more depth...Great job!

March4Revenge
01-11-2004, 09:50 PM
All in photoshop? hmmm *skeptical* C'mon - there has got to be some corel paint in there or illustrator.

Anyways, your lies aside (hehe) it's one of the best pieces 9if not the best) I've ever seen done with "100% Photoshop" *wink, wink*.

In only a day to *wink, wink*

Good job, no matter how much you fib.

:)

Ramon
01-11-2004, 10:52 PM
Let me guess, The Archangel Michael or possibly The Holy Lord Jesus himself about to put an end to Satan. Yes!!! I love that! As it is written, so it shall be!
Besides the spiritual meaning in this piece, I also think it is beautifully rendered! The composition, one of the most important aspects of a painting (IMO), is very well implemented!
The heavenly shield and the glowing back light is excellent! I do, however, believe that those majestic wings (feathers) should be rendered a bit tighter. Maybe not towards the edges because you may be wanting to show motion (the flap) but towards the inner areas for sure.
The clouds are Very nice!
The translucency of the dragon's wings, the embers in the sky, the glow from the dragon's mouth and the design of the dragon's head are all done very well.
Excellent work!

starqueen
01-11-2004, 11:33 PM
I can't believe people are critiquing this to death, haha. It's fantastic work and bravo on a good day's work! If it takes you one day to finish it, that's awesome.

I love how some things aren't as detailed as others, it brings out a focal point more. I really like the dragon and how his anatomy is kinda "scattered" here and there. It has a very nice serpent body to it. Just my opinions though...

Show us more work in the future! :D

Bluesman
01-12-2004, 03:44 AM
The hand holding the sword, to me isn't convincing.
The legs seem awkward, I'm wondering what it would look like with the sheild moved slighlty towards the left( looking at the picture).
That arm holding the sheild seems unatural at it's present angle.
I think also that it's brilliant work but you did ask what we thought at the begining of the post, therefore the critique is my opinion of the work.


Blues

superlayer
01-12-2004, 07:33 AM
Amazing atmosphere...
Great colors.
Tense and powerful.

DUCKORABB
01-12-2004, 02:19 PM
Great! You making skech on paper and skan this first? Or at once in phtshp? What kind of pad you use?


Regards

DCKRBB

bmcallister
01-12-2004, 02:25 PM
He uses a Graphire 2 for the painting.

Also, he does sketch a rough by hand on paper and scans it in. But believe me, it's VERY rough.

Brannon

vonbon
01-12-2004, 03:15 PM
Donít forget itís ďARTĒ not real life.

vonbon
01-12-2004, 03:15 PM
Donít forget itís ďARTĒ not real life.

The-3D-Data-Labs-Guy
01-12-2004, 05:16 PM
Oh.. that is outstanding... exceptional work! well done!:bounce:

MrKayne
01-12-2004, 05:21 PM
I think your work is amazing!

One small crit from me tho, the small wings shape in his shield bothers me, it's the same color as his armor, and kinda makes the sheild look transparent right there. Either way, it's still udderly beautiful - great job!

barto9
01-16-2004, 10:54 PM
i like the way the light in the clouds mimic the angel wings

Ryu
01-17-2004, 06:17 PM
hi,
I love this painting ! It's thrilling, the eye is really inside the painting...

I'm new to digital painting, and i'd really like to progress...
I would like to know how you work, how do you build the midtones? what type of brush do you use? any tips and tricks you use a lot ?

I hope i'm not boring you, but i'd really like to progress, so thx already...
Cu

:)

DoLeeP
02-13-2004, 12:31 AM
wow very good job:thumbsup:

vonbon
02-14-2004, 12:12 AM
Only cause you asked for thoughts.
I would recomend maybe darking the dark areas
and making the illuminated parts more vibrant or saturated.
Also maybe a light source in the back by the clouds and a
stronger glow on the angel. Just so they know the magnitude
of who da messn wit!!!

Don't get me wrong it looks fantastic!!!
probably just my monitor

laputaoscar
02-14-2004, 07:04 AM
What software do you use?

DenkoM
02-14-2004, 10:21 AM
very good but a small cliche dont you think?:bowdown:

Ramon
02-16-2004, 07:11 PM
I would have to agree; a bit stronger glow around the angel and in the higher altitudes in the clouds. Several transparent light rays coming from the top right may work to emphesize the highest power (The Kingdom of God) and create more drama to the impending clash!

BolognaGenocide
02-17-2004, 06:17 PM
Very nice job with this image. However, the dragon's head seems to be reading awkwardly... is it looking towards us slightly at the knight? or looking away from us slightly toward the knight? where are things in space? I'm a little lost.

Mr.Vengeance
02-26-2004, 01:47 PM
Great work... impressiv :))

i love the ambiance , a strong impression comes out from the picture

henryzjetsam
03-14-2004, 09:43 AM
firstly i'm an asian and my english is not my first language,
and i'm curiously just want to know, do you hav a reference of all this or just use your fantasy(illusion) to create it all????

i'm curious, please replyin me. thx...
i like you compositing very....very......very attracting me. i'm trying to be best like u one day. please be my lecture..

:bowdown:

sori about my grammar.
thx very much

SteelPixel
11-02-2004, 06:53 AM
First off, awesome piece, two criticisms though 1: I think the smoke billowing up on the lower right seems too straight not undulating enough 2: The warrior's left (viewers right) wing seems a bit squashed in sort of like it was made to fit in the composition, other than that excellent work....

Aquamarine
03-19-2005, 11:31 PM
your line of work. i'm a newcomer to the field and still am in training, and i think i'll look to your pieces for inspiration, they are just absolutely magnificent!

p.n.(personal note)i love the angel more than the dragon (i have never been a big fan of dragons). but i still love both characters!

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