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Cryptite
04-19-2005, 10:58 PM
You could either create two Spawn emitters that each send to a different overlay; one that controls the dust particles, and one that controls debris. In each of them you can place an AB operator. Name the overlay and you'll be able to find it easy in the enviro panel. Otherwise you could use the Send Out operator to divide it.

g8ff
04-19-2005, 10:58 PM
There is an AB operator within PFlow. Just throw that into the event you wish to have interact with AB. Make sure the specific event is selected within the AB interface and not the global source.

amckay
04-20-2005, 12:47 AM
I know everyone's been messing with Bobo's old vertex renderer so here's just a quick fire test I did with it. I think you can get better results with playing with it etc. but it's more of just a quick test. Took about 8 seconds to render.

I'll see if I'm allowed to show any of the stuff I've been doing with flood... that'd surely wet some pants :)

www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/amckay_vrfiretest.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/amckay_vrfiretest.avi)
www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/amckay_vrfiretest2.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/amckay_vrfiretest.avi)
www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/amckay_vrfiretest3.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/amckay_vrfiretest.avi)

ps. hopefully my site'll clear it's bandwidth restriction any day now then I can switch it to feed off of charlyc's site (thanks again) so then it won't keep going down after a week of being hit ;)

feldy
04-20-2005, 01:41 AM
whats flood?

amckay
04-20-2005, 01:59 AM
http://software.franticfilms.com/index.aspx?page=flood
frantic's proprietry fluids sim software

feldy
04-20-2005, 06:34 AM
do they ever plan on releaseing it

amckay
04-20-2005, 10:20 PM
undecided, probably not.

treed
04-20-2005, 10:33 PM
I actually signed up for the beta team on flood. Ben wrote me back saying when it's ready they'll let me know, heh.

feldy
04-20-2005, 11:40 PM
it looks thhe same as glue to me maybe my eyes see differnt

amckay
04-21-2005, 03:07 AM
----------------------

SoLiTuDe
04-21-2005, 03:18 AM
it looks thhe same as glue to me maybe my eyes see differnt

End result might look similar (liquids), but i'm sure what it's capable of/interface/workflow/and speed probably all make it different

feldy
04-21-2005, 03:41 AM
oh yea iam sure


thy should release it

amckay
04-21-2005, 04:21 AM
floods the most physically correct fluids simulator out there, it's a lot different to glu or real flow or anything like that. It also isn't particle dynamics like the others.

I don't know whether it'll ever become publically available, guess you'll have to wait and see.

jlelievre
04-21-2005, 05:25 AM
Flood does look pretty sick! The movies they have on there are great. Though I'm really looking forward to Scanline's "FLowLine". Talking to Stephan about it and it runs using Thinking Particles, can be rendered using various renders to do impressive simulations, AND runs inside Max. Apparently after talking to some people who have seen this thing in motion it's quite a sight to behold. I need to get my greasy paws on this thing. :cool:

FlowLine (http://www.scanline.de/MegalodonShow/index.htm)

jason-slab
04-21-2005, 07:40 AM
so Flowline will only work with TP? man i hope not

hey allan push some buttons there at frantic, get them to release Flood:D
man i'd love to play with it!!

|jason

amckay
04-21-2005, 08:19 AM
check out the movie cursed that just came out, we used flood for that. So far it it's just been shown off for water since we did the scooby stuff with it, but it can do a heck of a lot more than that ; )


One of the main TD's at scanline now works at Animal Logic next door, sounds like things at scanline are pretty shaky these days. I was at DD during the time when cebas were talking about trying to take scanlines fluids and integrate it although never looked like it'd come off. It'll be great if scanline does release it soon as they do have some great technical apps behind them now.

abductedMind
04-21-2005, 08:28 PM
I am new to particle flow so forgive me.

The problem: I am trying to have particles spawn from the surface of an object and go from transparent to opaque. Currently they all fade in at the begining together and subsiquent particles appear on the screen fully opaque. I don't want this. I want the fade to be relative the particles age not the absolute world age.

What I am currently trying: I am guessing that my technique is flawed from the start but here it is: I am key framing the "shape instance"'s material's Opacity attribute to 0% on frame 0 and 100% on frame 20.

tuomasj
04-21-2005, 08:38 PM
The problem: I am trying to have particles spawn from the surface of an object and go from transparent to opaque. Currently they all fade in at the begining together and subsiquent particles appear on the screen fully opaque. I don't want this. I want the fade to be relative the particles age not the absolute world age.


Search "particle age map" from 3ds max reference guide. That should do the trick. :)

abductedMind
04-21-2005, 09:14 PM
Yes that does the job - just got it to work. The only drawback is that the 'age' scale in the particle age map is a percent of a predeturmined lifespan but I can work around that.

Thanks!

rohit
04-22-2005, 06:53 AM
Hi Allan,

Your voice is too low in the video tutorials and also, many video tutorials don't have the source files included like 2.10 of section too.

any solution?

regards, Rohit

plat4m6
04-22-2005, 01:10 PM
umm the voice is perfectly fine for me.. he naturally seem to speak low.. but when u raise the volume its perfect..

the sound quality is quite awesome i must say, even though it may be low by default.. and someitmes the treble/pitch might be unusually high

for the source files.. i reckon its better without them sometimes.. otherwise ull rely on the source files and ull loose the point of the dvd.. which is to LEARN how to make those effects n stuff. might be annoyin at first.. but its god 4 u in long run

hope that helps.

KMAnStudios
04-22-2005, 07:38 PM
Ya know...Alan worked real hard to get rid of his natural Mickey Mouse voice, so I think the audio is great!!

feldy
04-23-2005, 04:22 AM
yea i have all 4 dvds from allan and i think the audio is fine. he his from austriala so a acent is going to happen and saying its a mickey mouse voice goes a little far i think.

Allan the liquid stuff bursting out of the tubes inyour new reel was that flood?



loved the new reel is that footage of blade still interlaced it dident look as sharp as it should of i think. but who am i to crit the master.

RazzBlade
04-23-2005, 03:10 PM
4 dvd's??

I guess I missed 3 new releases??
what are the others aside from advanced visual effects?

Neejoh
04-23-2005, 08:26 PM
I've been reading this thread for 2 weeks now, and I'm at page 78... :D It's gonna take me some time to get in the "present", but it's worth it. I've seen some serious sh*t throughout the whole thread!

And I'd like to thank Allan, like much others, for the great DVD (adv. Visual Effects)! I've learned a LOT from it, mostly because I'm a beginner (and now a pro, lol). I wish I had the money for some more DVD's, but hey.. I'll get them someday.

Maybe it's been asked before (most likely, a couple of times), but what happened to your site Allan? I'll try and read up as quickly as I can, so until then: Keep up the great work! This is by far the best topic I've ever read :P


[edit]
@RazzBlade: Afterburn Masters from CG-Academy. Check out this URL: http://www.cg-academy.net/pages/dvds_afterburnmasters_set/dvds_afterburnmasters_set.htm

I've read the explanation of jmonkey2000 (who is part of CG-academy) somewhere in this topic about why the DVD's are so expensive. Makes sence, but for me they're a little bit out of my league.

plat4m6
04-23-2005, 09:40 PM
i wish alan gave an intro to Aburn as he did 2 its combustion feature in the adv vfx dvd... i know he's probably done that in the AB master kit (also out of reach 4me in terms of price).. but still lol! theres like 1 Gb of free space on the dvd.. non the less it is a cool dvd, no doubt. allans intro to Pflow i reckon can make up for CG-academies 5 disk set explaining particle flow.. u really dont need someoen to take u through each little tincy wincy operator and test event to understand Pflow.. amckays intro is by far more than enough...

Daniel-B
04-24-2005, 01:16 AM
Guys, I've been trying to make a lava fountain on and off for months. I'm just not that experienced with particles. I'm more of a compositing guy. Anyone know how to make something like this?

http://mahi.ucsd.edu/Gabi/erth10.dir/lava-fountain.jpeg

ace4016
04-24-2005, 01:40 AM
You can probably use parray, add a winde that forces it up, witha bit of turbulece, and a drag force to keep the particels from flying up forever. The I am guessing the material would just have an additive effect so that the lava gets brighter where there are more lava particles,. Then motion blur (i don't have aburn or glu or anything like that, so I try doing everything with motion blur:p , doesn't work all the time). I never tried what I just told you, but a little experimenting wouldn't hurt. Haven't played with particles as of lately so I could be just wrong.

Daniel-B
04-24-2005, 01:51 AM
Well, I've gotten some very nice looking lava bursts. But they are the not the right scale. They look like lava being sprayed out of a water hose instead of large geysers of lava.

ace4016
04-24-2005, 02:19 AM
Hm, have you tried more turbulence, played with the frequency, and just mess around with the values some more? You can put more then one wind so that the lava stream gets blown in a certain direction, or adds more turbulence. This is probably really complicated, but you could put a few sphereical winds with negative values to get the geyser to spread out more. I haven't really played with particles latley so there's most likely a simpler way.

feldy
04-24-2005, 03:43 AM
Plat4m6 he did give a in depth intro on ab in dvd 1 of his cga dvds
pixel magic umm you might want to check out allans dvd from turbo squid he does a nice tourtial with a volcano in the dvd.

he has 3 dvds from cga http://www.cg-academy.net/pages/topic_plugins/dvds_afterburnmasters_set/dvds_afterburnmasters_set.htm


and a turbo squid dvd.

i got the one from turbo squid first sometime last fall and then right after xmas i got my 3 dvds from cga took me a while to get em too i ordered them in mid december dident get them for almost a month after ordering them. i must say its worth the wait. I talked with Allan the other day he has a new dvd comming out for siggraph also supost to be real highend i guess from what he had told me.

also I what does maya have that can do what pflow and ab can do?

plat4m6
04-24-2005, 04:29 AM
heya feldy, umm i was referrin 2 intro on after burn on the adv vfx dvd.. i know he would of given one on the cga.. but i dont hav the cga kit... even a copy paste of the vids explainin afterburn from the cga to adv vfx would of been good.. since he has a fair bit of AB tuts on the adv vfx dvd...

but neway, no point cryin, the adv vfx dvd is already 10/10 value for money :) so yeh...

feldy
04-24-2005, 05:35 PM
there all worth 10/10 in my book

if you want the intro into every thing pick up just dvd1 of the cga dvds the other 2 focus on production shots and methods

RazzBlade
04-24-2005, 05:46 PM
holy cow, I just checked the price of those. way to expensive IMO.

the advanced visual effects cd is more inline with reasonable pricing and packed with just as good a content im sure..

feldy
04-24-2005, 06:19 PM
the advanced Visual effects dvd does a lot more with pflow and reactor procedural stuff and only a little afterburn while the cga dvds focus prettty much all on afterburn goes realy indepth covers a little of compositing shots together things like that. i do belive they have sample vids on there web site. yea they are a little pricy i say but arnt all traning videos a little expensive.

plat4m6
04-25-2005, 10:21 AM
... yea they are a little pricy i say but arnt all traning videos a little expensive.

lol i so disagree when u compare it to allans advanced visual fx dvd which is only 60 bux... and its got probably 10 tiems as many hours as any of those afterburn master dvds... lol i mean.. no doubt allans method of xplanation is prob the best out there... but 82 dollars for a tutorial that goes for like 2 hours... i mean... put that next to the adv vfx dvd which has much more and only 60 dollars... that speaks for itself.

feldy
04-25-2005, 05:08 PM
basicly the two sets of dvds are almost covering two differnt subjects. the cga dvds focus on afterburn totaly and what it can do while the advanced vfx dvd covers a lot of things including reactor yes they are a little pricy but its infaltion and ur buying them from across seas as well. it cost me like 220 bucks when i boughtem in december

amckay
04-26-2005, 12:53 AM
KMAnStudios (http://member.php?u=74958), plat4m6 (http://member.php?u=137545), feldy (http://member.php?u=67337), rohit (http://member.php?u=7008) etc.
Cheers, I will say the turbosquid stuff the audio is quite terrible, since then I invested in some really good audio hardware that's digital/noise canceling etc. so the CG Academy quality is a lot lot better.
I'm recording a new DVD right now in time for siggraph, I'm stepping up the quality of everything pretty much so hopefully there's nothing to complain about : )

In regards to the scene files... both CG Academy and Turbosquid I provided all the scene files and THEN some, so if they aren't with it then I guess it's worth looking into it with the distributors of the DVD's. I can't remember which one but one of them forgot to put the scene files on there (DOH!) but think they fixed that and also put them online for whoever didn't get them the first time around. So hopefully they can help you out. Usually you're right, I find a lot of people will just skip the learning process and go right into the final scene file and play with that, and then when they need to make something similiar from scratch they can't seem to do it cause they didn't actually do the lesson : ) But for the most part I try to (especially with the new DVD) put up the tut to start from, the tut at the end, and then a finished polished version which I might spend a little bit more time on. Plus any additional related material, so hopefully that might be useful for everybody.

Feldy yeah that reel was just a work in progress edit, figured I might cut something together since I haven't got anything more recent than 2002 on my last reel. The quality of the video on some things is a bit daft as I just grabbed it from the bad quality mpeg of my old reel (all my original digibeta tapes etc. were all stolen from under my house when I was over seas a few years ago), the blade stuff I'm going to crop and de-interlace etc. but need to cut the reel a bit shorter still.

Ack, managed to break my right hand just before the weekend, doesn't make typing too pleasant!

Neejoh, I'd love to read the thread from beginning to end, Im sure there's a lot of stuff in here I'd learn from it! I think this thread's a great resource on it's own, and it's great that there's a pflow community growing out of it which is great!

PS. Site's still down, just waiting for the bandwidth to reset, then all the tuts are going to download from CharleyC's site, so won't need to worry about it going down after the first week of each month ;)

Yeah DVD's can get a lil expensive, in the end I don't think they're 'too' bad. I think it's more the shipping costs ON TOP of the DVD that make it a little less attractive. Hopefully most vendors will expand and get distributors in each country as it'd make it cheaper.

One of my biggest beefs with all of the DVD's is I didnt make or have anything to do with the cover work, so they're all just screenshots or worse still stuff another artists put together (at least the TS one) so the covers look horrible for those DVD's :) Personally if I came across any DVD with that kind of imagery I'd be a little put off purchasing them : P


plat4m6 - keep in mind that there might be 1gig of free space on the dvd, but there's 14 hours of video on that dvd :) most people record their dvd's as dvd-rom's which limits you to about 2 hours of video, so you're getting about 7 dvd's in that one : - )

PixelMagic - I'll try and upload a scene file later today for that lava, basically just get the particles to shoot up with gravity, give it turbulence or divergence/speed_variation to break it apart, the real thing is to make the lava 50% self illuminated, orage/red colour and give it an orage filter colour that's fairly bright, so the more concentrated areas will blow out to yellow more (making the core more yellow). And make them 40%+ opacity.

.. This is turning into a big post...
Feldy - maya vs. pflow.
Personally I think Maya's falling really far behind in terms of functionality. Pflow is geared more towards being a houdini_lite in comparison to maya, which honestly without expressions/scripting it's the equivilent of parray :) But the real key feature is the fact it's so fast with particles and it's so open to scripting (and fast at calculating the scripts/expressions).
Personally I'll use maya for jobs that are heavily scripted as (right now, until a soon to be released pflow tools box set fixes this) doing anything complex like scripting gets quite slow in pflow. But in general, complex particle set ups are much easier in max than maya.
Hah - not to try any sales pitch, but during some downtime after gopher broke/in the rough at Blur a few of the character guys who've never done particle work before grabbed my DVD's and started playing with them and were pflowing away in no time, which shows how easy pflow can be to pick up and use.

Update*
PS. Holy shite I can babbel on about nothing!

feldy
04-26-2005, 01:11 AM
good job allan on the wrist. ;) also the script on the cga dvd 2 for the chairs is very nice ive used that script for a lot of differnt stuff it can handel a lot of fragments i might add.

Cryptite
04-26-2005, 01:30 AM
I'm using PFlow to generate explosions off of a battleship in space in said below space battle. However the one thing I can't seem to figure out (give we're in space now) is how to get the explosions to keep up with the speed of the ship as it's flying and thus not drag behind, something that would happen were there any wind friction in space. The explosion is set up as such:

-A Laser particle hits the ship's hull, shapemark operator simulates burning hole in ship's hull.
-Spawn operator is used to spawn the explosion (AB set) particles which use Speed by Surface to emit via proper Trajectories.

Now naturally, I would have assumed that to add motion inheritance to the initial spawn that spawns the explosion particles, they would emit properly and inherit the motion of the ship. This, however is not so. I'm guessing it has something to do with the deflector, but i don't know how to resolve the problem.

A further problem impeding this is that I would like to use a drag force in order to simulate natural explosion dragging, however doing that would also reject inheriting the motion of the ship. Any ideas on how to resolve this would be greatly appreciated.

amckay
04-26-2005, 01:40 AM
Well particles are physics based, so naturally if they emit and then the ship moves away from them the explosion will just sit in the air, the only reason it might move with it is from wind vortices although that'd be more after the explosion. If you want it to have motion inheritence and it's not working, check you don't have any kind of speed operator in there and if so get it to inherit the motion first as otherwise it takes over and removes any motion inheritence from the particles velocity.

But basically if you look at a dog fight with fighter planes, they'll get hit and explosions might come off of it and shoot right past as obviously they won't float with the plane, fire and smoke might, but an explosion isn't attached or emitting constantly from the surface.
So if there's an explosion on your ship, you shouldn't expect it to follow the ship, otherwise you're best off animating your ship slower or something.
However if you absolutely have to, I'd recommend a push or a bomb spacewarp (planar) as they give an absolute value to push the particles through, so you might get your particles to have a direction to move in to keep up with the ship.
I've asked Oleg to put in a custom motion inheritence operator so you can do stuff like this if you absolutely had to, although whether it makes it into pflow tools #2 we'll see, as there's already a lot going into it.

The other way to do it is if there's no AB or anything and the explosions are seperate, you could hack it by having it emit the particles, then apply a mesher to the particles and link the mesher to the ship ;) I did that for the john woo flick 'paycheck' as most of the bullet time shots had a moving bullet, except one or two close ups the animator had the bullet sitting on the spot and vice versa, so I just animated my particles how i wanted and then attached a mesher to the bullet : )

Cryptite
04-26-2005, 02:21 AM
Hmm that's a good point I suppose. I guess it looks silly for two reasons. One, all the particles basically emit at once, and then they all fly off at once, retaining the explosion "blob" as the ship flies past it. I guess in order to help this out a bit I could add particles emitting for a time frame after the initial explosion, but I don't know how to do that exactly with PFlow...? I remember looking at the Star Wars Episode 3 trailer and seeing that the explosions in the Coruscant space battle seemingly follow the ships' initial movement velocity, but those ships were moving alot slower too.

I now have several more questions as I work on this scene.

Firstly, I was wondering if you (amckay) could take a look at this scene to see if there were any speed efficiency changes you could make. The scene as it is is very complex due to the nature of the scene as well as the complexity of the Pflow setups. I have done my best to hide everything except the things I'm working on at that moment in time, but I can't help but wonder if there are some changes you could facilitate?

Secondly, the scene lacks some realism in that the ship that is going down and exploding is lit only by the sun and planet etc. Were it to be exploding out the wang, bit by bit, as it is, the explosions would obviously cast light on the ship itself. However, given the complexity (again) of the PFlow system, as well as the oddity that PFlow displays particles in-viewport that don't show up at the same time in-render (whether due to 50%/100% display of particles) I can't really rig the lights manually (plus the scene is uber-slow). Originally I had been working on/seeking the help of folks to create Collision-born lights using a script operator within pflow. However it was highly unstable and worked on extremely rare occasions (the thread still exists here (http://cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=153634) if you'd like to take a look) Question here is how would I simulate that. I understand mental ray has light casting based on material color etc capabilities, but would this be the way to go. If so, would you know how? I'm not sure if mental ray is one of your forte's but its the only thing i've got to go on; unless one of the scripting elite here can figure out a stable methodology to the script for the aforelinked thread on light-creation. Any help is, of course, greatly appreciated!

Phew.

feldy
04-26-2005, 06:06 AM
u have to rember if its in space theres no gravity meanig no wind so it shouldent follow it anyway

plat4m6
04-26-2005, 07:25 AM
just because there is no gravity, doesnt mean that there is no force... Newtons first law says that an object will remain at rest or contine with constant speed in a straigh line (i.e. constant velocity) unless t is acted on by an unbalanced force..

so if theres somethin exploding in space.. you'll have a series of unbalanced forces acting on the pieces (from combustion of watever explosion creator here n there) .. but u'll endup with pieces moving with a constant velocity... (all this occurs in a matter of seconds.. if not split second..)... a drag force which increases across a few frames would do the job i guess.. it would slow the particles down to a constant speed...

i'm not sure if this is quite answering the point.. but i guess its useful for many other space situations :)

charleyc
04-26-2005, 07:59 AM
u have to rember if its in space theres no gravity meanig no wind so it shouldent follow it anyway

I think I know what you mean, but gravity and wind are not really directly related. I suppose gravity would play a roll in the shape of the explosion, but the lack of atmosphere (or air) is really what would change the physics of an explosion visually. There would be no air resistance, thus very little, if any drag. This would effect the debris as well as the amount of resistance to the ship (a large enough explosion could push the ship in the opposite direction) Also, there would only be the fireball equivalent to the amount of oxygen or other oxidizer artificially available in either the target or weapon. I have not personally seen a real exposion in space, but I have a feeling it is not as visually interesting as ones on earth. I think this is really a place where artistic liberty comes in. The explosions need to be artistically manipulated to accentuate the scene (ie, do what ever you think looks good).

Another way to get the particles to move with the ship is to use the Speed by Icon operator.

plat4m6
04-26-2005, 11:59 AM
Heya charley... perhaps search up nova or 'supernovae' on google.. i reckon they're 100 times more awesome than explosions that occur on earth..

But with regards to space ship atleast... if missile locks onto a fuselage or a compound with low activation energy.. you would theoretically get an explosion quite similar to that on earth.. infact.. the explosion would be much more animated, since particles wont be 'flying down' after flyin up in the air due to very little gravitational attraction... (objects will just fly in the direction which force pushes them towards...)... but as charley said.. the big chunk of spaceship (which didnt fully disintegrate) would probably endup just flying out in the direction of the projectiles trajectory.

But hey.. its really not worth studying a course of physics just to get an animation right.. i mean.. the fact is, explosions can occur.. you can make your spaceship explode like a supernova (extra ordinarily fake) ... or u can make it more realistic by makin the region where the projectile hits explode (since projectile would presumably hav oxidants/reductants.. allowing combustion reaction to occur).. and the rest of the part which doenst hold chemicals with low 'activation energy'.. to just be pushed out in the original path of missile...

sorry if terms sound confusing.. but its really simple in the end, who cares, no one gonna do an astrophysical analysis of your work.. ppl just care about whether it looks good or not.. :)

Daniel-B
04-26-2005, 06:59 PM
Well, here is my attempt at creating the lava geyser. It doesn't look that great because I can't keep the texture from blowing out. It becomes completely yellow at the base. How do I prevent this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/PixelMagic/lavaburst.jpg

charleyc
04-26-2005, 09:06 PM
Heya charley... perhaps search up nova or 'supernovae' on google.. i reckon they're 100 times more awesome than explosions that occur on earth..

I was refering to some sort of conventional weapons explosion (such as a missile or bomb). I think the way explosions behaves with gravity and in the air; fire boiling and rising, heat and shockwave distortions, debris arcing back to the ground and leaving a trail of small particulates.... is very spectacular and would not happen the same in the vaccume of space. I was inferring that the true physics of a space explosion (of that type) would probably not be as dramatic as what we witness on earth.

btw, another very awsome explosion in space are solar flares.


PixelMagic- This is a pretty good reference site. http://www.framepool.com/video/film_stock_footage/ Do a search for Lava and you will get some pretty cool video.

amckay
04-26-2005, 10:49 PM
One of the guys at work needed to buy some books on Amazon with my credit card, so figured I'd kill two birds with one stone and get some stuff myself. After a lot of searching I couldn't find anything I wanted, so I started to look at reference stuff and documentries, started getting all these second hand DVD's for $3 each etc. (well some anyway) spent over $100 on everything from large national geographic dvd collections to documentries on worlds most powerful explosions, volcanos, twisters, floods, nukes, you name it. Instantly built up a HUGE reference database of this stuff to already complement the large amount of reference I've already got.

It's amazing what a little bit of careless money can actually buy you, there's 60+ hours of cool footage at dvd res sitting right next to me : )
www.amazon.com

feldy
04-26-2005, 11:17 PM
very cool

allan
you said some of your old stuff got stolen from underneath of your house why and the hell would they look there? just thought id ask

amckay
04-27-2005, 12:32 AM
No idea, first year I left for LA I put all my important stuff into one box, all my DVD's (that hadn't already been stolen from a breakin earlier that year heh) all my digi beta's and cd's with my work on it, important papers and other crap. And that all got flogged, so don't have any of my previous work.

Ohwell not too worried, can't remember the last time I ever actually used my reel, but at the same time it'd be nice to keep a few of those pieces I was happy with.

anyway all good...

Daniel-B
04-27-2005, 03:11 AM
Allan, do you have any suggestions on getting my lava to look better. I'm trying to get it to look as close as I can to the reference photo I posted a couple of pages back.

amckay
04-28-2005, 02:19 AM
crap I better post this before I accidentally close this window for the third time..

I guess make the emitter smaller so the falling lava doesn't fall on the center body making it more concentrated and brighter. Make the particles perhaps a lil bigger but more varried in size, as well as a lil more transparent so they'll become more additive. maybe some more moblur.

Don't be afraid to experiment in photoshop or in the comp to add more glows and play with the levels to get stronger sense of contrast in there.

Keep in mind also there's a lot more variations of colour in the reference image and like I said before, bigger chunks. You might also want to play with lighting to have a concentrated area of brightness at the base. Particleage can work wonders too.
Lava is usually to some degree all self illuminated.

Not sure if I posted these lava tests? They're from some lava I'm working on for the new DVD, although this is non displaced and missing the malten element of it.


http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/lavatest6_.jpg
http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/lavatest1_.jpg
http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/lavatest3_.jpg
http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/lavatest5_.jpg

(early work in progress tests) and again that's a different style to what you're doing.

looking good though, might want to try metaballs although you probably don't need to go that far with your stuff - I would play in the comp though, and make the emitter tighter, particles bigger mainly.

I've actually got some lava similiar to yours but not on me right now, I'll post a scene when I can.

erilaz
04-28-2005, 03:08 AM
Damn... that there is some nice lava! Just particleflow and shaders, or is there some special stuff in there as well?

Cryptite
04-28-2005, 03:10 AM
Looking good allan. Gotta say though, what's with the specularity of the lava? Looks kinda like its encased in glass. While cool looking, would it be specular? I think it'd bee a bit too uneven and the viscosity and density of it would keep it from that. Just my opinion though..

Oh, and do you have any ideas on my aforementioned pleas on the space battle shot?

feldy
04-28-2005, 03:51 AM
Allan question when your doing fire stuff in max for production do u try and do it first with out ab or set the particles up and go straight into ab?

amckay
04-28-2005, 07:17 AM
I started on a really big rant about how it's okay to use plugins... but I won't go there.. Basically I used to do the whole "no plugins" thing, and I'd end up spending more time making workarounds, which in production time, even out to cost more than just buying the plugins in the first place. I will say I'll use every tool at my disposal, and that doesn't stop at max. And with the new DVD I do focus a bit more on other plugins.

BUT... (!) Fire I rarely ever do with afterburn. If it's a big fireball I probably will, Kirby did some flame thrower stuff for Warhammer at Blur with Afterburn... but in general tendril fire I'd be much more comfortable doing with phoenix or fluids or just straight particles with a bit of comping. Or just plane footage referenced. AB's big blobs, tendril fire is quite elegant and specific. But in general I'll evaluate what I think is the best way to do something, and straight out do it, time's precious and I don't want to try down one track if I think there's a more obvious solution (eg. AB).


cryp - yeah they were all personal test renders, I'm not too worried about the specularity at this point :) but yeah I don't think my plan was to pour lava into some old Italian town, and have people stop and go "hey... it's so....SPARKLY!!" as they get engulfed in flames :) (duck and cover always works ala SouthPark).

erilaz - Lava = despite my big rant just then.. it's all max no plugins :P I honestly don't like it, at least as a single layer, but when I add all the other stuff in I think I'll finally be a happy camper.

amckay
04-28-2005, 07:20 AM
early test, not blown away by it, but spending more time getting rid of the flicker bug than I have actually building the water so far : )

www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/amckay_floodtest2.mov

SoLiTuDe
04-28-2005, 07:30 AM
right on... is that actually flood, or is that another particle system? Looks almost like a combustion particle system =P

amckay
04-28-2005, 07:44 AM
yeah it's just a standard pflow with a bit of gravity, particles aren't anything fancy, just spent more time fixing the flicker, once htat's out of the way I'll start worrying about the damn thing again ; )

rohit
04-28-2005, 09:23 AM
Hi allan,

5.1-Reactor Basics under Section 5 - Dynamic & reactor of your Advanced VFX DVD, you demonstrate the rope bridge & you also tells us that the scene file is in the DVD but actually it's not in my DVD.

Can you please send me the scene file. I would like to study it.

Regards, Rohit

P.S. I keep my volume bar & speakers volume to full & sometimes even after that, you voice is too low. Can it be my PC issue?

plat4m6
04-28-2005, 09:53 AM
erm it is included in the dvd... take a look at the folder called 'extra scenes' and then jump into the dynamics folder and its in there... 'Rope Bridge'

enjoy

Daniel-B
04-28-2005, 02:57 PM
Allan, those lava pictures are cool. And yes, a scene file would be helpful. Whenever you can get around to it.

Also, that flood is awesome. I wonder if duck and cover works for floods also. :D

Largo39
04-28-2005, 03:25 PM
Well, i got a question, i posted this in the main a week ago but there weren't any responses so im curious if anyone would know here.

in making Pete Draper's grass tut (from his book) i wanted to expand it and add some lovely wind blowing across the grass. the grass was made in pflow and my first thought was to add mesher, vol select (by mesh), invert selection, and add a flex

it generally works, the flex was a little fast (added wind force) but with tweaking i think it might work, the problem was that there was a massive blue patch in my vol select, so a good chunk of the grass is either completly affected not at all.

any thoughts?

jason-slab
04-28-2005, 04:09 PM
Largo39: have a look at Bobos post a couple of pages back, it might help u!!
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1272978&highlight=bobo#post1272978

good luck
|jason

jlelievre
04-28-2005, 05:27 PM
I gotta say this is looking hella sweet! :)

Orbaz Collision Operator (http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=247)

charleyc
04-28-2005, 07:48 PM
PixelMagic - Here is a lava eruption I just did. It isn't exactly the scale of your reference image, but it could easily be scaled if you like the effect.

Animation (Divx required)
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Lava-Eruption.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Lava-Eruption.avi)
The Divx codec messes with the brightness and contrast a bit so I included an image.

Also here is a max file (R7)
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Lava-Eruption.zip (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Lava-Eruption.zip)

g8ff
04-28-2005, 08:53 PM
Lava looks pretty cool man.

feldy
04-29-2005, 12:17 AM
Allan I was very disapointed last night when i dident find you on the Blade 3 dvd in the special features talking about the particles for the ashes and stuff.


I was wondering do you have a break down for your reel.

rohit
04-29-2005, 12:21 AM
The bitmap ps-a-24-0029.jpg is missing when i opened the frac_start.max file inside dynamics folder (xtra scenes). And on rendering, i get grey box on pink base.

amckay
04-29-2005, 12:30 AM
ohhhh
few of the animal guys took me out for bday drinks last night... I think I'm ready to die..

So the blade trinity dvd's out over there? Well with most dvd's you usually get the president of the company who knows nothing about 3D talking about.. erm.. 3D!
We were scheduled to do a vfx BTS for the DVD, and it got posponed twice and then called off, so I guess they didn't want to do it?

Saw a talk from Rob Coleman yesterday, he was doing the lucas film animation recruitment drive talking about starwars, man some of the BTS starwars 3 stuff he was showing looked hot!
there's a wooky scene which for a 5 second shot was 1 terrabyte of data! FFS! I assume it's probably all that fur/hair caching : )

feldy
04-29-2005, 12:50 AM
what the hell is the bts


and on the dvd it was the vfx supervisor or something

also I had stoped useing phenoix for a while because i dident see or even check for a update for it for max6 becasue of aura I just found out like 2 months ago there was a update. one thing that i dont like about phenoix i cant find a birth emitter or somewere were i can aniamate when it turns on and off. maybe iam just not looking hard enough or something.


oh yea happy bday when was it

treed
04-29-2005, 01:19 AM
Allan- nice lava stuff man

Intrinsia- Yes, that new collision operator looks pretty dope man. Physics inside pflow.... those will be the days. http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Ugg, it really blows that I don't have max 7 cuz I want to open all these max files you guys post.

amckay
04-29-2005, 02:01 AM
1st of may, just flying out this weekend so caught up with the Animal Logic guys before I left.
I'm an old old man now
speaking of which - got a plane to catch!
Running out the door.. but here's a quick test - only rendered the frames I could before I had to run
still WIP - will add in pflow driven lights and work on the shader more etc.
www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/lavatest1mov.mov

when the hell's my site gonna be back up!?

tuomasj
04-29-2005, 07:28 AM
That lava looks good! Happy birthday mate, I'll drink for that tonight! :)

jason-slab
04-29-2005, 07:58 AM
very cool lava allan, first HAPPY B-day!!
only comment i can make so far is and i could be talking total crap, but when lava flows won't it fold more from top to bottom, your shader looks like its growing from the front as it flows down the hill. hmmm does that make sense? but hey like u say its a WIP :)

|jason

Daniel-B
04-29-2005, 03:56 PM
Awesome work on that lava, Allan. You should have worked at ILM for the lava shots in Episode III. Very nice work. And happy birthday.

amckay
05-01-2005, 11:08 PM
Tuomas!! Great to see ya mate! Have an apple Cider for me! ; ) I'll try to get my ass back to Finland sometime soon.

RE: Lava, it was early shader development on it, so just threw together the particles for it so nothing to really get too wow'd over just yet. In terms of folding, yeah it can pending on how hot and viscious it is. I remember some of the tests that are shown in the Digital Domain handbook in the Dantae's Peak section (actually relooked it over on the weekend when I flew back home) as their passes are very similiar in fashion, and don't fold at all. So I guess I'm being lazy and following what's already been done, but from my own unique angle on it.

Anyway at this stage like I said, just a test.

Thanks for the bday wishes, bday was may 1st. Just flew back to Sydney last night, verrry sore and verrry poor.

FraGiLe
05-01-2005, 11:49 PM
Happy birthday from germany, too, allan :)

FraGiLe
05-01-2005, 11:51 PM
Btw. I have to do a comet impact composition for a short film we do at our Fachhochschule. How would you do it guys ? Create it with Afterburn/Particle Flow, render it out with rpf-files and compose it into the video footage in combustion ?

amckay
05-02-2005, 01:14 AM
Yeah don't necessarily need rpf files but the extra channels can help.
But render out an AB pass of firey smoke trails is a good start, maybe a fireball head, distortion passes, impact effects and so forth are all additional stuff.
write out a rough storyboard or concept of what you want and start to tackle all of the tasks one by one.

Thanks for the bday wish!

PexElroy
05-02-2005, 03:43 AM
Happy Birthday Allan! And great work on the lava test; very nice.

FraGiLe
05-02-2005, 09:57 AM
one last question on the impact composition, though not particle related :

Would you render out the 3D Max files with the "Video" AA-Filter or Area or any else ? The impact is gonna be composed onto a PAL DV video footage in combustion 4....

Regards,
FraGiLe

amckay
05-02-2005, 10:35 PM
Fragile: It's up to you, if you think your renders look better like that, then change the render filter. It all comes down to helping it be more blurry or sharp and fit more the plate you're rendering too. Although if you're comping in combustion you're able to do a lot of that in there too.

PixelMagic - Hah yeah episode 3.. would be nice. All the volcano stuff for episode 3 is all real volcano's shot out in Itally(?) I believe. So I don't really wanna try and beat real footage if I can help it : )

ArtiZta
05-03-2005, 09:37 PM
Oh.. 1st of May,... Happy birthday Allan from the tropical archipelago of Indonesia.
wish you all the best and more particle tricks ;) I've been a way from the constant net connection I bet I missed a lot... what are you working on now Allan? Oh I just saw Blade, Great fx there, any samples tips & tricks from it to share?.. About the story.. sorry nothing much though. Btw, finally got to acces your website, I thought you've put some new stuff there?

back 2 work now.

amckay
05-04-2005, 12:20 AM
Cheers mate, I... kind of have
I've maybe forgotten to update the actual site with the material though :) thanks for the reminder.

I've been working on the new DVD and some other stuff. I want to put together an intro to glu3d sometime soon for everyone to check out. Working on a big film I can't talk about and consulting on a few other projects.

I swear... if I were single I'd be so much more productive :)

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/PRB.avi
http://www.allanmckay.com/scenes/scenes/PRB.max
http://www.allanmckay.com/scenes/scripts/PRB.ms

This is really is really silly - but someone on the discreet webboard was asking about getting pflow and reactor to work together. So I built a quick system to get particles to interact with rigid bodies
Basically get the particles how you want, run the script,
then turn the particle system off and run the reactor simulation.

All it's doing is baking out the keys of the particles and feeding them into
reactor.

feldy
05-04-2005, 02:15 AM
Allan I'm looking at the scene you posted but I'm not sure what you did to make the particles turn into acutal objects I'm trying to read your script but I just dont see were it turns it into acutal objects. its very cool but I guess i just dont know how to read it right or what ever. did u acutaly clone the sphere 200 times or hmm. also th4e new dvd your working on is that a siggraph only dvd or will we be able to buy it through a reseller.

amckay
05-04-2005, 07:36 AM
pflow script operator controls the positions. Then the script bakes those positions. So check the pflow script. Nothing fancy.

Yeah it'll be available everywhere, just Beau was prodding me to do one before Siggraph. I'm planning to do 3 kick ass (K I C K A S S) dvd's later this year which is what started the whole thing, so Beau talked me into making one for siggy. I'm really extremely happy with the content so far, it's looking friggin better fx wise than anything else I've done. It's also very well edited etc. Kind of like the CG academy ones are (audio crisp etc).

Time to go home and get back to work on it :) E3's around the corner so have a few deadlines for that which are chewing me up, ack.

-Allan

amckay
05-05-2005, 03:44 AM
just reread your post, just to reitterate - they're not using any shapes in the particles, they're actual objects locked to the particles.

avolution
05-05-2005, 02:15 PM
Could you post the script for those of us with Max 6?


pflow script operator controls the positions. Then the script bakes those positions. So check the pflow script. Nothing fancy.

Yeah it'll be available everywhere, just Beau was prodding me to do one before Siggraph. I'm planning to do 3 kick ass (K I C K A S S) dvd's later this year which is what started the whole thing, so Beau talked me into making one for siggy. I'm really extremely happy with the content so far, it's looking friggin better fx wise than anything else I've done. It's also very well edited etc. Kind of like the CG academy ones are (audio crisp etc).

Time to go home and get back to work on it :) E3's around the corner so have a few deadlines for that which are chewing me up, ack.

-Allan

SoLiTuDe
05-05-2005, 04:39 PM
i believe he did: http://www.allanmckay.com/scenes/scripts/PRB.ms

avolution
05-05-2005, 04:47 PM
ohhh. i have this script...but i have Max 6, so I have no idea what other
scripts are inside the scene file...this one i have, i assume is a regular
maxscript run by open..edit to taste...evaulate all?


i believe he did: http://www.allanmckay.com/scenes/scripts/PRB.ms

amckay
05-05-2005, 11:31 PM
So much for giving out max files! : )

http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tuts/amckay_PRB.avi

feldy
05-06-2005, 12:37 AM
yep my message is too short

amckay
05-06-2005, 01:39 AM
http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/amckay_lavatutwip1.mov

it flickers - but aside from that just a wip for a tut. I'll be doing a production version soon which will have all the bells and whistles, but for the mean time I've kept it simple so it's easy to follow.

feldy
05-06-2005, 02:10 AM
I just saw some pics of blur on tobias web site I would have thought they would have been in a better building than that. I hope I dont get introuble for posting this http://www.3dluvr.com/tobias/junkyard/siggraph04/low/IMG_1827.jpgoh yea allan very nice stuff also yea ran out of thoughts.

amckay
05-06-2005, 02:27 AM
http://www.3dluvr.com/tobias/junkyard/siggraph04/low/IMG_1645.jpg <- that's a much nastier pic!

Yeah blur's building is a big warehouse a few blocks from the beach. The interior's just one big big room with people scootering back and forth too lazy to walk from one desk to the other to talk to their collegues. Definitely not the most attractive place but the open plan does allow for more interesting ways to communicate amongst eachother.

TimWoods
05-06-2005, 08:44 AM
hello, great thread!. been doing some particle shots for a project over the last few days, thought here would be the best place to ask a question.

Overal im trying to create a swarm of bees, that form a word, and then start swarming again. I have a keep apart to swarm them, then a find target to a word mesh, then a larger word mesh around this with collisions to contrain them there, then they start swarming again. Is there an easier way to make the particle swarm around an object?

Hope that explains it, and hope someone can help.
regards tim

jason-slab
05-06-2005, 08:56 AM
hey allan, that lava is starting to look pretty cool!

yeah i agree, Blur doesn't quite look like u think it would, but hey i'd work there!

|jason

avolution
05-06-2005, 02:07 PM
As long as your find target is set to script vector, I think you are doing just fine!

Ohhh and Particle Flow Tools Box #1 offers extra tools that go hand in hand
with find target...placement paint, particle paint, and birth paint....


hello, great thread!. been doing some particle shots for a project over the last few days, thought here would be the best place to ask a question.

Overal im trying to create a swarm of bees, that form a word, and then start swarming again. I have a keep apart to swarm them, then a find target to a word mesh, then a larger word mesh around this with collisions to contrain them there, then they start swarming again. Is there an easier way to make the particle swarm around an object?

Hope that explains it, and hope someone can help.
regards tim

feldy
05-06-2005, 04:31 PM
hey Allan whos the goofy guy with out the sun glasses :) some tourist maybe

HCompston
05-06-2005, 07:20 PM
Is there anyway to stop particles being effected by the movement of its emiter i.e. If you have an stationary object emitting particles at a certain rate then it starts moving the particles spread out. "This is similar to dropping stones at a set rate out of a car window. When the car is stationary the stones are in a pile next to the car however the quicker it moves the greater the distance between the stones."

However what I want is a constant stream of particles that doesnt vary in distance per particle based on the objects speed. This sounds real simple but it is throwing me. The only method I found was to keep the object stationary and move the background so faking movement!

I hope this makes sense.

Harry

TimWoods
05-06-2005, 08:44 PM
As long as your find target is set to script vector, I think you are doing just fine!

Ohhh and Particle Flow Tools Box #1 offers extra tools that go hand in hand
with find target...placement paint, particle paint, and birth paint....

excellent, cheers. particle flow is preeety nifty.

charleyc
05-06-2005, 09:05 PM
Is there anyway to stop particles being effected by the movement of its emiter i.e. If you have an stationary object emitting particles at a certain rate then it starts moving the particles spread out. "This is similar to dropping stones at a set rate out of a car window. When the car is stationary the stones are in a pile next to the car however the quicker it moves the greater the distance between the stones."

However what I want is a constant stream of particles that doesnt vary in distance per particle based on the objects speed. This sounds real simple but it is throwing me. The only method I found was to keep the object stationary and move the background so faking movement!

I hope this makes sense.

Harry

Rather than have the emitter continously emit particles, have it emit a few(however many you need) at frame 0 and lock them to the emiter. Then add a Spawn Test and have it generate particles based on distance travelled.

feldy
05-06-2005, 10:30 PM
Hey Allan you wouldent know a way to make pflow respond to a Dreamscape sea surface as a defelctor would ya. Im makeing it a colliosion object thru the udeflector but pflow pretty much hangs.

HCompston
05-07-2005, 12:06 AM
Hi CharleyC

I will give it a go. Thanks

Harry





Rather than have the emitter continously emit particles, have it emit a few(however many you need) at frame 0 and lock them to the emiter. Then add a Spawn Test and have it generate particles based on distance travelled.

Daniel-B
05-07-2005, 12:07 AM
Allan, that lava flow looks good. Now create a lava geyser....ha ha. :D

HCompston
05-07-2005, 11:47 AM
Hi CharleyC

That effect is not quite what I am looking for. It does produce particles at set spaces however what I am after is the particles to not be effected by the emitters movement. i.e if they look the same when the emitter is moving and when it is stopped. As if they only recognised there own local space.

I hope this makes more sense.

Thanks
Harry

Rather than have the emitter continously emit particles, have it emit a few(however many you need) at frame 0 and lock them to the emiter. Then add a Spawn Test and have it generate particles based on distance travelled.

ArtiZta
05-07-2005, 01:28 PM
Maybe to late but I think for knowledge there is no too late.

Finally finally finally!! I got your DVD shipped to me, Allan…
although the shipping cost me half the price of the DVD.

Can’t wait to get it !!

cheers

:)

feldy
05-07-2005, 08:24 PM
which one did you buy?

amckay
05-08-2005, 10:33 PM
I gotta say - that's my biggest beef with letting other company's handle shipping my dvd's... I haven't met a company yet that doesn't seem to charge crazy dollars for shipping.. I'd really like it if there were more snail mail type options amongst others.

Thanks though - hope you find it informative. As I always say the earlier dvd's the audio is a bit shabby and editting etc. Although all in all the content I believe makes up for that. New dvd's though I think will be perfect : )

Hcompston : I haven't really read your post thoroughly but it sounds like motion inheritence is that right?

charleyc
05-08-2005, 11:01 PM
"That effect is not quite what I am looking for. It does produce particles at set spaces however what I am after is the particles to not be effected by the emitters movement. i.e if they look the same when the emitter is moving and when it is stopped. As if they only recognised there own local space."

Hcompston - Ah yes, check the motion inheritence as Allan stated. If that is what you wanted, then I misinterpreted your first post...sorry to send you on a goose chase. If that is not the effect you are after, you may want to post an example showing what you don't want.

HCompston
05-08-2005, 11:14 PM
CharleyC / Allan

I will try to describe the effect I am after a little better. If I cant I will try and get a sample together. But it is rather easy to duplicate.

I have attached a sample scene. Both the moving emitter and the stationary emitter are metting particles a the same rate. However the moving emitters particles are spread out. What I want is to be able to animate the emitter and have the look of the particles stay the same as if the emitter was stationary. The object I need to animate starts off moving then slows to a stop. I dont want the appearance of the particles to change. I hope this is clearerer :)

Thanks

Harry

"That effect is not quite what I am looking for. It does produce particles at set spaces however what I am after is the particles to not be effected by the emitters movement. i.e if they look the same when the emitter is moving and when it is stopped. As if they only recognised there own local space."

Hcompston - Ah yes, check the motion inheritence as Allan stated. If that is what you wanted, then I misinterpreted your first post...sorry to send you on a goose chase. If that is not the effect you are after, you may want to post an example showing what you don't want.

HCompston
05-08-2005, 11:22 PM
Here is the scene it didnt appear to attach in the edit.

Harry

feldy
05-09-2005, 12:48 AM
Allan you wouldent happen to know how to make a dreamscape object respond as a deflector would ya.

amckay
05-09-2005, 12:53 AM
I haven't used dreamscape since the beta of ds1...
But what exactly do you mean? a dreamscape rigid body sim hit a deflector? or ?

Hcompston : I'll take a look later today, have 2 fluid sims going which is killing my pc right now

ArtiZta
05-09-2005, 03:10 AM
which one did you buy?

I got the one from TurboSquid, the Turbo Training Advanced Visual Effects
that's one of the old ones isn't it Allan? Now once it gets here i'll have to start saving for the CGAcademy ones :) ... might take me a while. Btw, I hope you don't mind if I ask you few questions about your DVD Allan? .. later when I get it running. ok? :)

Today I'm getting my new system so I guess I'm gonna have so much fun for next few weeks before I get hit with upcoming project. ;)

cheers.

charleyc
05-09-2005, 04:48 AM
Here is the scene it didnt appear to attach in the edit.

Harry

I can't seem to open your file.

feldy
05-09-2005, 05:33 AM
nevermind fixed it

charleyc
05-09-2005, 06:02 AM
HCompston - Here is a file that I think does what you are describing. You have to sort of tune it between the two spawn amounts (Rate/Travel) but it should get you what you want.

Oh btw its an R7 file...if you need a break down for a different version let me know.

HCompston
05-09-2005, 08:53 AM
CharleyC

I cant seem to open your file? It didnt have an extesions in the zip file you supplied? I tried putting a MAX extension on it but no luck? I am running MAX 7.5 if that makes a difference.

Thanks

Harry


HCompston - Here is a file that I think does what you are describing. You have to sort of tune it between the two spawn amounts (Rate/Travel) but it should get you what you want.

Oh btw its an R7 file...if you need a break down for a different version let me know.

plat4m6
05-09-2005, 08:57 AM
when u open the zip file, the file contained without an extention is another zip file.. so reopen it with winrar (that's wat im using), and then inside it is the good old max file.

Monotoner
05-09-2005, 10:31 AM
Hi all,
Is there anyway to let particles stretch to their direction on travel, increasing with their velocity in P flow? This option seems to be avaliable for super spray only (super spray > rotation and collision > Spin axis control > Direction of travel/Mblur stretch).
thanks

HCompston
05-09-2005, 01:00 PM
Plat4m6

Yep that worked. Thanks

CharleyC

Have you managed to open the file I sent posted? As this shows it quite well. I will have a look at the file you sent tonight.

Thanks

Harry

charleyc
05-09-2005, 04:24 PM
Hmm...I can't even open my own attachment now. I wonder if this site is doing its own compression? The file is a zipped max file...nothing more.


Anyway, here is a direct link to the file
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Stop-Speed_Test.zip (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Stop-Speed_Test.zip)

I still can't get to your file.

HCompston
05-09-2005, 07:45 PM
CharleyC

I got the file just having a look at it now. If you send me a PM with your rmail address I can email you the file directly. I dont have anywhere to upload it to.

Harry


Hmm...I can't even open my own attachment now. I wonder if this site is doing its own compression? The file is a zipped max file...nothing more.


Anyway, here is a direct link to the file
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Stop-Speed_Test.zip (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Stop-Speed_Test.zip)

I still can't get to your file.

Cryptite
05-09-2005, 10:06 PM
2 Questions. One pertains to a thread I've already had around for awhile, basically i'm still trying to figure out how to get particles (which are ships for the spacebattle i'm doing) bank when they turn. That thread is here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=157462).

Second question. For the particles (ships) that are flying around and, eventually, shooting at big ships, or, (whenever I figure out how) each other, I want them not to be shooting all the time, and more like when they are in realistic visible range of each other. I visualize each ship/particle having a sort of cone sticking out in front of them, and when the particle/object that the ship is chasing is inside of that "view cone", it will fire. The only thing I got is that it would be a probably Script Test that checks to see if the ship is "pointing at" the target it's chasing after that, when true, it goes to a spawn operator.

On further thought about that, I realized i'm looking for something similar to what the Camera Culling (I think of stargate: atlantis everytime i say culling...) does in that it removes particles from the render or scene or whatever when they aren't in the view of the camera's viewcone thingy...

Any help on how to script that or any help at all would be great. This space battle thing is rather ambitious, and now i'm at the part where about everything left I need requires MAXscript knowledge of which I have virtually none. I'm looking for a degree of AI for the ship/particles.

Thanks.

amckay
05-09-2005, 10:37 PM
monotone_sg (member.php?u=9037) yes - bobo write a tutorial on doing just that. http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/ under the pflow area.

cryptite, you're going to probably need to script it if you want to change it's aim timing. Else you could try some funky deflector test that it goes into a new event for an agetest of 3 or something, still attached to the ship but fires a find target at the object (with a scripted offset, otherwise it will always hit or always miss) you can animate the spawn rate by age or event so that way it fires maybe 15 bullets then stops each time.

But to get it to do bursts you might want to offset it with a random multiplier or something in the script just to help offset things. What you're trying to do though is pretty difficult to do, especially getting planes to all interact and become aware of eachother. TP can do this a bit better - Maya and houdini as well. Although soon pflow tools will be able to, so nothing to worry about.

feldy
05-09-2005, 11:07 PM
Allan i know this is for pflow but do u have a updated script of your fragment script?

Cryptite
05-10-2005, 12:17 AM
Yeah, I figured that scripting was the way to go. I guess my real question was how to script it. For the moment, the ships don't need to fire at each other, but at actual mesh objects (bigger ships). So that should help out a little. I'm just hoping someone who knows how to script can step in and help.

amckay
05-10-2005, 12:46 AM
until I have time to go through all my HD's and sort all my scripts out there'll be no real revisions as I need to sort through them all first. But what did you guys want updated in it?

Bobo's got a cool fracture script, I'm not sure if this one is publically available, he wrote it for scooby, it's pretty friggin cool.

I was kind of curious about the new gnomon dvd's so I bought the pyro fluids one, bit of a let down - not really that blown away by it or the quality it's editting/recording. Not to mention the pyro stuff on there is pretty terrible. Not to sound all up myself but I could pull better maya explosions outa my ....
I like the lava tutorial.. makes me feel quite warm and fuzzy when I look at it next to the one I put together with just normal pflow.

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/amckay_lavatutwip1.mov
vs.
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/img/screengrabs/dsc03g.jpg

anyway don't mean to shoot it down, just wondering how the dvd could be so terrible.. :\

Cryptite
05-10-2005, 02:11 AM
I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but is it possible for a regular mesh object to be linked to a particle. That way the script to generate linked "viewcones" for the ship particles that the system could then use to detect a "collision" that would cause the spawn operator to fire the bullets. Then, and i've seen this somewhere, the other ships could detonate upon being hit by the bullets... Is this possible?

amckay
05-10-2005, 03:02 AM
Yeah just made a tutorial on that a few days ago, or at least touches base on it.

I've got some much more advanced stuff on the new dvd soon, but basically you're just sending rotation and position info in and out of pflow script.

http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tuts/amckay_PRB.avi

amckay
05-10-2005, 03:42 AM
Kind of basic crowd system where they try to avoid the teapots and if they get too close they blow up. The teapots are physical geometry but they're particle driven, so when there's an explosion they still dissapear/get_affected by the result.

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/tanks.avi

Here's one that they're a little more aware of the landmines. They're not aware of eachother in either sims so they will clip eachother.
http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/tanks2.avi (http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/tanks.avi)

Lastly the landmine radius is slightly bigger so they need more luck to avoid them, but there's only 10 of them.

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/tanks3.avi (http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/tanks.avi)

frogspasm
05-10-2005, 04:30 AM
Hey Allan,
Every time I try to download your file: http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tuts/amckay_PRB.avi
It gives me an error.
Anyone else have that problem?

~Mike D.

Cryptite
05-10-2005, 04:49 AM
Yeah it doesn't work for me either. You got some kind of crazy codec on that thing mckay?

amckay
05-10-2005, 04:56 AM
When in doubt - look at my site:
http://www.techsmith.com/download/tsccdefault.asp
link to the codec, hope it helps.

-Allan

wscates
05-10-2005, 05:43 AM
Hey Allan I'm having problems with it as well. I have the latest Techsmith codec installed. I ran the file through GSpot codec information appliance, and it reports a corrupt avi header.
The tank stuff looks great.

P.S. Here is the link to GSpot if anyone wants it.
http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

amckay
05-10-2005, 07:14 AM
Crap - I'm sorry. It looks like it must have bugged out during the initial upload.I should have checked it.
I'm uploading now.... I'll let you know once it's up'd.

sorry for the inconvenience.

wscates
05-10-2005, 07:36 AM
No need to apologize, **it happens. I and I'm sure everyone else appreciates all you've done for the community.

tuomasj
05-10-2005, 07:45 AM
Nice tanks mate! Did you had that weird flipping problem that I had with my motocross scene?

If anyone else wants to check my wierd problem out, here is the link:
http://www.jomppanen.com/comp/motocross_test_render1.avi

amckay
05-10-2005, 07:53 AM
Hey Tuomas, I'm not getting flipping but rotations are absolute so if the objects change direction they will just flip in that direction rather than have any inertia, this is something I'm talking to Oleg about right now as it's scriptable but if you have large crowds you don't want it to be doing more trig than it needs to on your scene.

Here's one last test then I'm going home :)
http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/tanks6.avi

There's only about 3-4 pflow script operators in here. Initially it was just a quick test, although one of the guys at work started bugging me "the landmines can't stick around after the explosions!!!" and after that I started to improve the navigation and push it a little further.

That Particles>Rigid Bodies tutorial will be uploaded in lets say one hour from this post.

oatz
05-10-2005, 04:32 PM
Just thought I'd pop in to share - I modified things learned from Allan's recent tutorial on fire to help get this ethereal gas look. Appreciate everyone's input to this forum.

ethereal gas (http://www.khye.com/video/etherealgas.avi)

Khye

feldy
05-10-2005, 05:10 PM
hey oatz that fil dosent work


also allan your fragment script is fine but i do get epoly errors everynow and then.

oatz
05-10-2005, 06:06 PM
Meaning the URL is bad or the file is bad? I checked on my end and everything appears to be working fine. I'll be interested to see if anyone else can view it?

Allan - I noticed on your fire you set the scale to absolute and then animated it. Is there a reason you chose this method over relative successive?

amckay
05-10-2005, 11:07 PM
oatz - cool anim! I use absolute since then I can create a bell curve for the animation so it ramps up quickly and then dies out slower to get a quick scale. I prefer this method usually as you have more control than successive.

JKeller1068
05-11-2005, 12:26 AM
Crap - I'm sorry. It looks like it must have bugged out during the initial upload.I should have checked it.
I'm uploading now.... I'll let you know once it's up'd.

sorry for the inconvenience.

No problems viewing the file in camtasia player for those who have it.

Cryptite
05-11-2005, 01:19 AM
:curious: Any other ways about it? Might you be able to encode with say divx for us noobs allan?

charleyc
05-11-2005, 01:40 AM
:curious: Any other ways about it? Might you be able to encode with say divx for us noobs allan?
Camtasia's codec is much better (imo) then divx for such things. I believe the issue with that file was a error with the upload rather than an actual codec issue. Once he reloaded the file, all was fine.

Cryptite
05-11-2005, 02:04 AM
Ah, well, I didn't quite notice when he said.
That Particles>Rigid Bodies tutorial will be uploaded in lets say one hour from this post.

*slaps forehead and downloads*

amckay
05-11-2005, 06:10 AM
If you download it now it will work - it wasn't fully uploaded last time which is why it didn't work. So it'll work fine now if you download it, make sure you have the techsmith codec installed.

techsmith's far better than divx for this kind of stuff, and you'll need it to view most of the tutorials on my site and most other sites.

amckay
05-11-2005, 06:52 AM
Has anyone ever made a better spacewarp than vortex for max? I know lock bond can almost do it although you can't offset it by particle age so it's a bit absolute. and the position is locked. I'm doing some vortex stuff which I'm trying to escape the linear feel that vortex gives.

instinct-vfx
05-11-2005, 09:22 AM
@Allan : Dunno if you tried those already but you could give Blur´s Spiral Gravity or Blur´s Maelstrom (They say it´s like "Water running down the drain")

Thorsten

tuomasj
05-11-2005, 09:30 AM
Hey Allan - how about playing with particleFloat and forces? (randomizing or some sine curve?)

avolution
05-11-2005, 03:24 PM
It looks wonderful


Meaning the URL is bad or the file is bad? I checked on my end and everything appears to be working fine. I'll be interested to see if anyone else can view it?

Allan - I noticed on your fire you set the scale to absolute and then animated it. Is there a reason you chose this method over relative successive?

avolution
05-11-2005, 04:21 PM
Allan, your PRB script works wonderful. I couldn't directly load a Max 7
file into 6, but I watched the tutorial AVI and was able to glean all the
information from this!

Again, quite wonderful, you are so helpfull!:thumbsup:

loran
05-11-2005, 04:37 PM
thx for the PRB tutorial Allan. This is pretty nice. I ever try this with Bobo's motion transfert script from particles to scene objects but the trick is to create the animation keyframe with your simple script. Really cool :))

galagast
05-11-2005, 05:51 PM
i also did some crowd test a few months ago (managed to dig up the old file so i rendered this preview) pflow_crowd_test_clip (http://www.geocities.com/jepoy20/files/pflow_crowd_test_clip.zip) ... i still get some sliding though. hehe. i used point cached instanced objects to control the varying walk speeds.
i was hoping that there is some kind of keep apart for objects coz i like the way the particles turn when they are approaching another particle with the keep apart operator. how are the talks coming with oleg on this alan? :)

feldy: i hope you'd find this useful, i made a script the can fragment a poly object. it has a couple of parameters you could play with.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=229117

Cryptite: banking would seem to require some scripting that would need to detect a particles' change in direction and speed, which would in turn rotate the particle... well this is just an idea.. if i hav time tomorow after work ill try to play with it and see what kind of (probably weird) results ill hav..:scream:

oatz
05-11-2005, 06:01 PM
This is another test from this morning. Using large spheres with opacity maps of noise with output levels adjusted. No post production or render effects - straight pflow.

http://www.khye.com/images/pflow_noiseMapTest.jpg

I believe rendertime was about 1min15sec, air.

Hook
05-11-2005, 07:57 PM
i was hoping that there is some kind of keep apart for objects coz i like the way the particles turn when they are approaching another particle with the keep apart operator.

comming soon i think.....:bounce:
http://www.orbaz.com/animation/BeachBalls.avi
all Pflow
this is more particle collided whit particles

g8ff
05-11-2005, 08:10 PM
Looks cool Oatz...I especially like the specularity on the material. Cool stuff.

_geoff

Cryptite
05-11-2005, 09:49 PM
Graet tutorial Allan, I was able to gather everything from that that i needed! 2 questions proceed. I was able to position the viewcones with the ships but I can't figure out what the right syntax is to get the viewcones to match orientation (which is rotation, I hope) with the ship.
Viewcones[i].orientation = pCont.particleorientation
doesn't work.. :p

Second question is how do I get the collision spawn operator to fire particles so long as the ship being chased is in the viewcone...?

amckay
05-11-2005, 11:47 PM
Tuomas - I'm just whinging. I could easily write up a script, but I'm working with a million or so particles, so it's not feasable to use a script unfortunately.

tkuehnl
05-12-2005, 12:08 AM
PFlow/Network rendering Problems...

I ran into some bad network rendering issues with pflow based scenes the other day. I am doing a lot of script operators, pinning geo to particle transforms, etc.. And the frames are not lining up, ie. the particles appear to jump and jitter about when rendered across multiple nodes. If I render the same scene on a single machine, the animation of the particles is smooth.

Anyone else, having problems with pflow and network rendering? Is it possible that pflow or certain pflow nodes are not utilizing the same random seeds across multiple machines? or those seeds are paired with something machine dependant to generate our random numbers (system clock, etc.) ?

It was very frustrating to have these complex scripted particle systems finally doing what I need, think everything is good-to-go and then to find out a few hours later that I can't hit the deadline because the frames are just trash... And it will take far to long on a single node to render all my passes. Makes me want to code the whole thing from scratch in MEL... I've been extremely busy lately so perhaps these are known issues.

Any ideas or issues I should know about?

Thanks,

-Todd

amckay
05-12-2005, 03:09 AM
I don't know why but I have the same situation, sometimes even just render and viewport positions are completely different when controlling objects through particles. And that's even if it calcs on sub or 8th frame refresh etc.

Over the networks strange, perhaps you could bake the positions out to keyframes before the render? Slow I know... but then pflow's not going to muddle it up.

PS. I threw some work your way a few weeks back from a friend over in LA who was looking for max fx'ers - so I assume they would have contacted you by now.

amckay
05-12-2005, 05:42 AM
btw oatz - cool scene you're doing

charleyc
05-12-2005, 06:51 AM
I was messing around with Lock/Bond the other night and I came up with this. It isn't too spectacular and far from perfect, but interesting anyway.

www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Rocks.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Rocks.avi)

Omega Productions
05-12-2005, 08:42 AM
Thats great charlyec :)

g8ff
05-12-2005, 02:05 PM
very cool charleyc

ArtiZta
05-12-2005, 05:14 PM
Nice one charleyc, I was wondering.. what did you use to render it?...
make some more moves, it looks cool.

DVD is here Allan, although the casing is cracked I do feel lucky the actual disc is fine. Strange though in some DVD drives it won't load, at least at home it does. Will have fun this weekend.
No questions yet :)

cheers.

FraGiLe
05-12-2005, 05:16 PM
Nice AVI-Video there...how did you do the dust ? With Afterburn ? Would you give away the preset :) ?

charleyc
05-12-2005, 05:32 PM
Thanks for the comments. I used Brazil to render it. The dust (could be a lot better IMO) is Afterburn. Pretty simple settings, mostly default, I have the particle size, noise size and density animating over time (density is initially like .125 and fades out to 0). It is using the Octane engine.This was a real simple test. If I get a chance I will do a better rig (larger...more room for the rocks) and make it walk around and such....but we'll see about time :P
btw, I updated it with a very slightly longer version.

monkeydonut
05-12-2005, 05:37 PM
Another query regarding strange rendering issues with pflow.

I have a scene setup with particles positioned on the surface of some static geometry, shape instanced from planes with leaf textures applied (instant hedge).

I have them running through loops to set them spinning slowly, stop gradually then repeat, like a bush rustling in the wind.

Now the weird part is when I press play or scroll my frame bar through the animation it all plays out perfectly in the viewport. When I come to render however, the particles will disappear and reappear in different places on the geometry (at a particular frame that coincides with an age test in the flow) - as if there is a mistake in the flow and they are constantly being reassigned new positions (though after that point less particles are visible at any given time??). The weird part obviously, is that there doesn't seem to be a mistake in the flow, and the fact that the viewport animation is absolutely correct corroborates this.

charleyc
05-12-2005, 05:42 PM
Another query regarding strange rendering issues with pflow.

I have a scene setup with particles positioned on the surface of some static geometry, shape instanced from planes with leaf textures applied (instant hedge).

I have them running through loops to set them spinning slowly, stop gradually then repeat, like a bush rustling in the wind.

Now the weird part is when I press play or scroll my frame bar through the animation it all plays out perfectly in the viewport. When I come to render however, the particles will disappear and reappear in different places on the geometry (at a particular frame that coincides with an age test in the flow) - as if there is a mistake in the flow and they are constantly being reassigned new positions (though after that point less particles are visible at any given time??). The weird part obviously, is that there doesn't seem to be a mistake in the flow, and the fact that the viewport animation is absolutely correct corroborates this.

Check the viewport with the same stepping as the render.

feldy
05-12-2005, 05:53 PM
charleyc did u do a seperate pass for the particles and dust

just so you know brazil is the slowest when rendering afterburn try final render or just use the scanline if rendering is way slow also if your useing pflow and the dust is in its own event or its own system you can put a render node in it and set it to none to help save some memory when rendering.

charleyc
05-12-2005, 11:00 PM
feldy - everythign was rendered in a single pass, just a real quick setup. If I get time I want to do a better scene with this idea that will be a bit more elaborate.

As far as render times go, I can usually get Brazil (or any renderer that undersamples) to be quite a bit faster then the scanline with Afterburn when doing passes. Especially when using their native lights. In this case there wasn't any light interaction, so the render impact was next to nothing (a few extra secs per frame). In this case the largest imact to the render time was faking the interparticle collision between the large rocks and the small debris fragments and dust (I scattered several thousand particls with keep apart on a mesher object of the rock particles). That added a bit of calc time to the system.

Weisz
05-13-2005, 01:19 AM
I just have to say that seeing your work, Allan, with particle flow is very inspiring and I want to thank you for the tutorials on your site, they're extremely helpful to a beginner like myself and I'll definitely be ordering your advanced visual effect dvd soon!

monkeydonut
05-13-2005, 10:47 AM
Check the viewport with the same stepping as the render.

Sorry Charley, I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean there are a different number of substeps in the calculations for rendering and viewport display? Where would I change this?

Thanks
Alex

galagast
05-13-2005, 11:55 AM
i had the same problem once... viewport and rendering where not giving the same results even at 100% particle count for the viewports.. so now, whenever possible, (and whenever i use scripts in the flow), i tend to match viewport and render substeps so it would show me results as accuarate as the render resutls...

monkeydonut: in particle view, select the (top) global event (click on its title bar) or just select the pflow icon in the viewport, rollouts will appear, look for System Management -> Integration Step group. by default, it is set a Viewport[FRAME], Render[Half Frame]

oatz
05-13-2005, 07:58 PM
I think the biggest thing I took away from Allans Fireball tut was the low opacity/filter color. I've been playing around with different setups for the last few days and am now using the different shaders with different specularity behaviors and just see what pops up. This one uses the Strauss Shader (http://www.khye.com/video/Orange%20Test%20B.avi) (2 MB).


Khye

feldy
05-13-2005, 08:59 PM
yea i have all of the dvds from allan there verynice and iam glad i spent the money however i wish someone would do a dvd just on scripting for pflow . that would be cooli cant wait till his new dvd come out later this fall

Omega Productions
05-14-2005, 02:49 AM
Nice one charleyc, I was wondering.. what did you use to render it?...
make some more moves, it looks cool.

DVD is here Allan, although the casing is cracked I do feel lucky the actual disc is fine. Strange though in some DVD drives it won't load, at least at home it does. Will have fun this weekend.
No questions yet :)

cheers.

ArtiZta did you get Advanced Visual Effects? My case was very badly cracked as well.
For the amount of money it cost for shipping to Australia (almost more then the cost of the disc) I would have hoped for better packing. The disc plays fine and is worth its weight in gold. Actually alot more really as it isnt very heavy :)

ArtiZta
05-14-2005, 04:51 AM
ArtiZta did you get Advanced Visual Effects? My case was very badly cracked as well.
For the amount of money it cost for shipping to Australia (almost more then the cost of the disc) I would have hoped for better packing. The disc plays fine and is worth its weight in gold. Actually alot more really as it isnt very heavy :)

Yes that's the one I've got. So it seems that not only my shipping was bad. I think it should be shipped directly from Australia :) As for DVD content, its amazing, teaches so much. Great stuff Allan, Good on you mate! :)

Gunnah
05-15-2005, 12:44 AM
Flood is a VERY robust fluid engine... you'd be quite suprised what you can do with it..and what it's evolving into. ;) There's (iirc) going to be a sketch at sig about the cursed stuff..


Gunnah

ps: Alan will prolly LOVE it once he really starts playing around with it down there :D


check out the movie cursed that just came out, we used flood for that. So far it it's just been shown off for water since we did the scooby stuff with it, but it can do a heck of a lot more than that ; )

amckay
05-16-2005, 11:04 PM
CharleyC! Cool work mang, funniest part is I had written down my schedule this week to actually do that exact anim, or try and do it. I even rented out galaxy quest ; ) Although I was going to do it in TP taking advantage of the shape collision operator. Few people I know were pitching on fantastic four, and got me all hyped up about the 'thing' as an all CG character which got me thinking about doing something similiar to that and the galaxy quest rock monster. Very nice work.

feldy RE: PFLOW scripting, next dvd gets moreinto pflow scripting. I'm tempted to do one that's all pflow scripting - but current tutorials I'm doing on crowds and lava etc. are heavily scripted already.
Really annoyed about hearing about the cracked cases...
Eitherway in future (after sig) I'll be looking at multiple vendors, so euro's and aussies will get local distributors rather than have to pay uber expenses on international shipping. Hell, I'm in Australia right now, I could have probably drop kicked one your way ; )

gunnah - I love flood already, the stuff you can do with it is amazing. Just wish Canada would give me more than two nodes on our renderfarm to sim stuff on : )

plat4m6
05-16-2005, 11:12 PM
hi allan,
speaking of TP, do u know of any physics based object fracture sample files created in TP out there? ive been desperatry trying to achive a realistic glass smashing effect after ppl convinced me that TP was the only way, i seen psots on that tpworld forum, but the dudes dont seem willin 2 giv out sample files.. the sample files included in the package arent exactly wat i want, and i havnt had too much time 2play around with it since i only use it at work

also if by any chance uve seen the superbowl commerical DDimension created,are those fire embers surrounding the images of the football players that blow out of the ground particle flow systems or (god forbid) thinking particles?

Thnx in advance

amckay
05-17-2005, 12:00 AM
yeah I worked on the big screens blasting out in the superbowl project, although that was the messiest project I've worked on in a long time. They/We used TP for a lot of the stuff, I wouldn't be suprised if the tendrils are 2D, I left DD and went to Blur in the middle of the project since nobody seemed to be able to nail the look of those damn screens even after I left : )

TP I wouldn't say is the worlds best physically correct system for smashing stuff, although it'll be better than pflow (without pflow tools boxset 3 anyway) can do. no offense to tpworld but I don't think the moderator will give any scenes out, that sites pretty much there to feed his own ego :) But see what I can do about a scene. We did a lot of fracture stuff for blade, although most of it initially was all reactor, wasn't 'til later the shape collision stuff was implemented.

plat4m6
05-17-2005, 01:23 AM
Wow nice to know Allan, maybe u can think of incorporating a couple TP tuts in some of ur future dvds, hav u got ne recommendations on how 2 get the grasp on it? my biggest problem is when i keep thinking im in pflow and try to figure out how to make 'event based' particle systems (like when w collides with object x, event y occurs) which obviously isnt meant 2b the case with TP since they say it is 'rule based' and not 'event based' system.

Any sample sceens would be greatly appreciated.

cheers :)

feldy
05-17-2005, 01:40 AM
I dident know pflows tools box 2 was out were the hell is all this extra stuff man...

charleyc
05-17-2005, 02:16 AM
I would assume Allan was implying that the interparticle collisions that Oleg is working on wont be released until Box 3.


Allan- That is funny. I have been wanting to do this for some time now. I was dinking around the other night and thought what the heck. I would love to see what you could come up with for something like this in TP. The results without particle collision is less than great. If it is true that Olegs particle dynamics aren't due until Box3, then I really hope box 3 is due soon :)

Pkonst
05-17-2005, 02:26 AM
plat4m6, if you don't need procedurally generated fracture, you can use reactor and pre-modelled fragments, I have seen pretty cool examples of such technique.

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/255540

plat4m6
05-17-2005, 03:52 AM
Heya Pkonst,
i seen that thing on Tsquid, but the project im working on includes fracturing a fair number of objects one after the other, its almost impossible to model fractured elements,

the thing with TP too is that its posible to add other rules governing the fracturing of element, like the fractured pieces can be governed by gravity and stuff.

feldy
05-17-2005, 04:04 AM
u can use a fracture script to produce the fragmentssaves time on modeling

plat4m6
05-17-2005, 04:33 AM
heya feldy
ive actually tried taht as an option.. infact that was my first method of tryign to make realistic glass fracture, but its just too simple, i opened a thread a few months ago asking how 2 use allans fracture script 2 do wat i watned, the final post deemed TP to be the only viable solution.
here's the link,
http://cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=226922&highlight=glass+fracture

Every now and then i try visit the fracture script 2 c if i can think of a way to make it realistic, but i just dont think it works, also the biggest problem with Pflow is (as the TP vid tuts say) that a collision will be detected ONLY when the center of mas of an object touches the colision object.. hence stripping it from true physical based collisions

Imagine blastcode for max existed! how awesome that truly would of been

Pkonst
05-17-2005, 04:46 AM
plat4m6, there is much better script for such kind of things imho, Object Slicer by galagast:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=229117

amckay
05-17-2005, 06:59 AM
I "was" going to do an all out TP DVD although the turbosquid guys talked me out of it, which makes sense. Nobody in the world uses TP... no matter how good or bad it is, nobody uses it. I am considering some basics stuff on the DVD I'm developing now, although it's not likely. We'll see, I like TP - but I like Houdini too ;) PFLOW tools is doing a great job and future box sets are going to blow everyone away, so it's still the bees knees.

If you want to learn TP and need a few tips... I like Kieron Heldon's advice when I asked him a few years back "Think GERMAN!!" seriously though, think as a programmer, everything is built around statements, loops and data sets. It's not exactly user friendly, but it can be very flexible.

FELDY - box set 2 isn't out yet.
CharleyC I think shape collisions are BS2... I think... eitherway can't wait for both :)

The stuff TP boasts it can do pflow can do, I think the real secret is precracking your glass and then using a simple velocity / distance (of the bullet) to get the particles to react realistically. Originally this was all a script test, although I got oleg to write a distance operator to save the calc time, not sure if it's a part of box set 2 when it comes out or not. But that's the way to do it on the cheaper level. What you guys are really after is a brittle fracture system (or yes, blast code) not TP. But DDimension (Jason Crosby) did some great work on Alias using TP to fracture glass, but it's nothing physically correct by a long shot.

plat4m6 - in regard to that post about that guy knowing TP and doing all the blade stuff, I wouldn't go that far : ) he knows a bit but his views are very biased "if it's not cebas it's crap". He'll argue TP can do better effects than aura etc (and has argued the point!) purely as it's a chaos group product

plat4m6
05-17-2005, 07:29 AM
thnx allan 4 all that info.. lol i can almost swear that u detest some of those guys from Cebas from the way u speak lol.

Regarding dvds.. lol.. im sure that some people out there use it.. maybe not on individual level coz its just so criminally expensive! but it wouldnt hurt to throw in coupe fundamental TP tuts in the remaining free space of ur dvd, or perhaps on your site! lol sorry if i sound so selfish :rolleyes:

its just that ive got this project on my hands where i hav to do a fair bit of fracturing and im desperatly trying 2 do it with whatever i hav on me at moment at the workplace (max, TP, AB, RFlow).

One BIG problem i hav with TP is that the shape collision operator requires a Floor node input, how about if i want it to be anything but a floor, like a ball flying into a wall/glass/object to fracture it. And, the second fundametnal problem, how can the actual fracture be procedurally created.

Your fracturescript is awesome Allan, (i thought u where being humble when u said 'theres heaps of other better ones out there' in 1of ur tuts), its just obviously not workable in situation where u need procedural shattering and physic based varying pieces.

Pkonst: the object slicer is intersting, but it still relie on the user creating the fractures, so its very very time consuming and it wont produce realistic output.

amckay
05-17-2005, 07:39 AM
To be honest, I don't mind the cebas guys. and I'm not a disgruntled person at all. Although myself and a large number of other people have had to work/babysit a certain Cebas/TP user who proclaims himself to be the master of particles and yadda yadda yadda - who does nothing but screw up. And I don't know how, but he's managed to make so many peoples lives unpleasent just by breathing near him, that I don't like to talk positively about anything that will make him read my post and say "I told you so Allan! TP is the greatest product ont the planet! Long live Cebas!" as stupid as that sounds.

So in general, Cebas are doing some smart and not so smart stuff, but myself and many other people have had a bad taste left in their mouth purely from one user who's ego exceeds his talent/knowledge 1000 fold.

That's the only time you'll probably ever hear me speak negatively about anyone.

in regards to a TP userbase, there ARE people, just not many. DDimension are big users of it, Blur are trying it out etc. But it's not really supported that heavily. Personally when I set up shop I'll be making it part of my pipeline, not necessarily the primary piece, but definitely for some effects sequences.

Honestly - I'm quite embarrassed by my fracture script, I never meant for it to be even publically used let alone now so heavily picked up. There seriously are far better script out there. I plan to start writing some new tools soon, ever since I moved to Sydney I've been bombarded. But that will change soon. TP's great for fracturing to an extent, personally I like the idea of taking on real geometry that's prefractured sometimes, as it lets you add more specific detail where needed. But it's not always the case. RE: Slice, Bobo wrote one like that that's kinda cool, not sure if it's publically available.

galagast
05-17-2005, 12:16 PM
Bobo! if you can hear our pleas, could we have at least a tinsy winsy grasp of your fracture script? :)

mine's got a couple of limitations, so im not very pleased with it either, although it does the job quite well on some occasions... basically, it works around slicing the object randomly, just like, applying a Slice Modifier on top of the object multiple times and rotating it randomly everytime.
same goes for the boolean mode (which is really kinda hard to squeeze out good results coz most of the times, i get open (non-solid) objects... thus i created a summary info so that one could see the percentage of open objects on each fracture, the lesser the better)...
a couple of neat stuff i suppose goes for applying auto-mass calculations, and some button-ed out functions... and i guess going by the boolean->shell mode thus applying a shell mod afterwards also looks interesting...
**also i forgot to note that the script reads through fracture objects by thier name, so say you're contented with how the fractures look, the next time you fracture another object, it is recommended to rename the prefix name.. coz if not, the latter fractured object would be deleted...:sad:

alan: looking forward to your all out pflow scripting dvd!
Pkonst: thanks for mentioning my script:)

Imagine blastcode for max existed! how awesome that truly would of beenI dreamed about that the other night... sigh...
probably, if one would really want blast code quality chunks, maybe someone knows someone who could export it for him/her.:bounce:

plat4m6
05-17-2005, 12:47 PM
heya galagast
which reminds me! i know its possible to export max data to maya... apparently that was done in day after 2morrow scenes i think, and the script is widely available online for free, would it be possible to go visa versa..

wat im gettin at is, would it be possible to use blast code in maya, and export the fractures into max?? if so.. y cant digimation make plugin which simply interprets maya fracture into max on the fly, so it will do it based on the maya engine and then convert to max... if u get wat i mean...

maybe some1 can pick up on that!! but pleeease i need some kidna realistic fracturing technique.. some one out there make blast codeeeee!!!
please :)

ArtiZta
05-17-2005, 04:36 PM
LoL...
Btw, I've seen that Power Boolean 3 does a great job in cutting objects, with no problems for making solid output. There is also a sample of beraking a wine glass.
take a look at http://www.npowersoftware.com/

As for blastcode..... wish they do make it for MAX.

feldy
05-17-2005, 11:42 PM
you can use reactor do do the collosions just do the fracture your self

amckay
05-18-2005, 01:24 AM
just got an email from CharleyC, he's temporarily taken down my two new vid tuts, just thought I'd point it out to save any "bad link" emails. Apparently it's exceeded 500gb this so far this month.. so ... that's a tad crazy.

I'm going to try and recompress my vid tuts to a smaller size if I can, cause if I wasn't getting help from other people there's no way I could personally host those tutorials if they get hit that frequently. So again charleyC thanks for hosting, and erm yeah that's a pretty big amount of hits on them files...

feldy
05-18-2005, 01:36 AM
Allan some scripting dvds would be nice. Is there a lot of scripting in tp. also I keep reading houndini from you. How much do use that in jobs?

amckay
05-18-2005, 02:50 AM
honestly the whole time I was using TP on blade trinity the scripting was broken. Apparently it's in there now. Personally I know pflow tools is about to blow TP out of the water, and make scripting even simpler, so I'm not too fussed.

Houdini I'm blessed to know some real houdini pro's which makes it easier to jump in with it, but right now I don't use it for production, more just keep tabs on it as I go. I do occasionally use maya, but ever since pflow things have started to become just far too easy in max.
My favourite now is writing a scripting UI to control pflow, so when I hand my max scenes over to a studio, they have a bunch of nobs to play with and I don't spend 3 hours trying to explain the complexity's of my flow to anyone. So "go faster, not as much boyancy, smaller size, more variation, turbulence, spin faster" all in there and no need for fine tuning on my end.

next dvd will have a lot of pflow scripting, some pretty useful stuff actually.

feldy
05-18-2005, 02:56 AM
very cool I about to watch a short The potter. the fx stuff was done with houndini. I wish pflow would calculate a little faster i spend so much time watching the progress % its not funny.

Pkonst
05-18-2005, 05:30 AM
Guys, have you seen this site: http://www.geocities.com/tony1001es/

I think he has moved to http://toonmarket.net/ now, but some time ago there was a really interesting video of fracture plugin for 3ds max this guy was developing. Can't find live links to it right now, so here is the video:
http://rapidshare.de/files/1829093/fracture1.rar.html

Anyone knows what happened to this one?

galagast
05-18-2005, 05:42 AM
yup, i've seen that stuff before, and i havent heard any news from it since... :sad:

hi Allan, will you be able to include your sample of a car being dropped and deformed using pflow? im very much interested in it. :):):)

plat4m6
05-18-2005, 06:07 AM
hey pkonst, the link dont seem 2 work, is there ne other links that work 4 it?
thnx mate

Pkonst
05-18-2005, 06:22 AM
plat4m6, if you mean rapidshare link, you should use Free download type in the bottom of the screen. Actually video isn't really stunning, but maybe this guy is still working over some similar stuff which should be interesting.

plat4m6
05-18-2005, 07:12 AM
thnx pkonstant, worked, lol i didnt c that free download button on the bottom..

that fracture thing looks intersting, but it looks as tho the edges are just being triangulated rather than forming true fractures, but hey, lets hope he'll get there :)

so my question is, every one of those films/trialers/reels containing explosions are hand modelled bits and pieces?? far out discreet must be really evil then lol.

i hope soemone from discreet sees this commotion about fracturing and they can make some inbuilt plugin which handles it (mr discreet, pls dont make it exclusiv to the new version, we're all broke from buying max6 / max7 !)

ArtiZta
05-18-2005, 01:11 PM
Agree with you plat4m6. Fracture is so needed in the industry and so hard to make in max.

Allan seeing your post about the 'different' people out there.. I though I can only find them in my region. Are those often cases where you work or is it just occasional case? Btw, can't wait for your next DVD, I beleave yo're gonna release it when the disc is full? ;) the one I got is great. Hope the next one has some other postal options. ;)

oatz
05-18-2005, 02:33 PM
Personally I know pflow tools is about to blow TP out of the water, and make scripting even simpler, so I'm not too fussed.

Is this what you know of the boxes or autodesk development (is there any?).

Khye

feldy
05-18-2005, 05:25 PM
last year When I bought my dvd from turbo squid i called them right before they were about to ship it and toldem to send some cool stuff in it. my case was fine and also i got a turbo squid mouse pad and a tattoo from them. but i found that when i got my box set of the cga dvds my dvd drivewasent reading them like they were supost to. it read like on of the dvds and that was it. so i had to go to school and they worked there but not all on the same machine. so i ended up going to a couple different pcs and a few macs trying to get all the files copied over so i could put them on better discs that really pissed me off. but the information on the dvds were good.

amckay
05-19-2005, 01:01 AM
Feldy that sucks mate, should email cg academy about that. Ideally once I've produced a DVD it's out of my hands, and that's a bit of a frustration when I hear things go wrong. Ideally they usually do a great job of getting it out to people, but at the same time hopefully whoever you deal with are prompt when you find problems with your discs etc.

oatz yeah boxsets, just saying olegs busy doing some amazing stuff

artiza you mean about ego's? They're everywhere, but there's one or two guys in LA who I've met that are just unbarable.

RE: The car falling and smashing scene file, it's on the turbosquid dvd I believe. Or at least it walks through how it's done. That stuff is a lil older now, I'll be doing some newer more dynamic stuff soon on that very subject, in regards to real cars deforming. I believe Chris Harvey might be doing some car deformation stuff on his upcoming CGA DVD? I'm not sure... if I were a lil less tired I'd turn my head and yell across the room.. but ... I'm too tired :) damn those 12 o'clock screenings of starwars.

jason-slab
05-19-2005, 08:47 AM
OT: is houdini worth learning for VFX?

|j

Ibah
05-19-2005, 03:20 PM
hi, im making a wall of a building explode, because of an asteroid impact im using the pflow chucks way for that

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__Chunks_Basics.htm

now i got the script to work, but i dont want it to start at frame 0, and cant get it to go on frame 16 for example. ive changed the emit start, doesnt work

im no script expert..

but this is something for the time ?

n Proceed pCont do
(
t = pCont.getTimeStart() as float
if t < 0 do
(

ive changed the zero to the sme time as the birth etc.. but than i get nothing.

someone any idear how its done right ?

avolution
05-19-2005, 03:35 PM
The birth script is generally set for frame zero. If you want it to not be visibile till
frame 16, set an age test to send out at frame 16 and turn off "visible to camera"
on the properties on the birth event...works like a charm.

hi, im making a wall of a building explode, because of an asteroid impact im using the pflow chucks way for that

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__Chunks_Basics.htm

now i got the script to work, but i dont want it to start at frame 0, and cant get it to go on frame 16 for example. ive changed the emit start, doesnt work

im no script expert..

but this is something for the time ?

n Proceed pCont do
(
t = pCont.getTimeStart() as float
if t < 0 do
(

ive changed the zero to the sme time as the birth etc.. but than i get nothing.

someone any idear how its done right ?

Ibah
05-19-2005, 04:04 PM
thanks..got it working now ;)

loran
05-19-2005, 06:37 PM
the Bobo's script (http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__Chunks_Basics.htm) uses with PowerCutter from PowerBoolean3 demo (which works completly for the cutter section!!) is really powerfull and easy to use!!
Watch my test!

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/scriptedChunks01.jpg (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/scriptedChunks01.mov)




the max7 file (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/scriptedChunks01.max)

TunnelLight
05-20-2005, 09:43 AM
I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now and I would like to get your guys input on it. Would it be possible to use Pflow to displace a mesh creating the Bow Wave and then create the foam section on the mesh as well.

I've done some test and got a very simple scene done using Pflow but I would like to take it further and also make it look a little more realistic.

Thanks in Advance
Mark Playford

loran
05-20-2005, 11:28 AM
playford, Im just working on that type of effects. first the displass wake: My solution is not displass but volum select by mesh to the water plan. The mesh is a simple serie of splines attached to the boat. On top of the volum selct I add push or noise and that works fine, and fast.
for the foam PF can do this to a planar water, if water is animated you will need PF ToolBox.

loran
05-20-2005, 11:41 AM
here is my foam:

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/boat-foam01.jpg

oatz
05-20-2005, 02:27 PM
Loran, what's the particle count/render time on that particular frame?

oatz
05-20-2005, 03:06 PM
This is another test using pflow for a medical animation. Trying to get some plasma that you can fly through.

Post/RenderEffects: None
Rendertime: 6-8 sec/frame
particleCount: 1000

http://www.khye.com/video/purpleTestB.avi (DivX)

scrimski
05-20-2005, 04:03 PM
Hello,

is there a way or a script(unknown territory for me) to rename ALL the PFlow events(or to unhide) in a scene?


I'm not talking about the stuff visible in the Particle View but the other, which I can't unhide or select but have to rename when importing a PFlow scene into another containing some PFlow events.

ArtiZta
05-20-2005, 06:41 PM
Loran, that looks great.. mind sharing some more details on how you made it?
can you send animated sample of it?... did it take long to render?

cheers.

amckay
05-22-2005, 11:57 PM
scrimski (http://member.php?u=48634) - yeah you can. i was just doing this the other day for a toolset I'm writing. I'll try to upload a way to do it later today if I get a chance.

actually I'll write out at least a way to read all the names into the listener

this methods a bit more convoluted than it needs to be, but I'm a bit under the gun today, so you can just get this...

objlist = getmaxfileobjectnames C:\temp\maxfileyouwanttouse.max as array
print objlist

that'll print everything in the scene, including the invisible objects
add them all into an array and rename them.

FYI - there are much easier ways, but again, I'm busy

PeteDraper
05-23-2005, 12:07 AM
hey mark! long time no hear!

Bow displacement - I'd use a combination of volume select coupled with XForm to raise up the surface and either a (static) noise modifier to create some subtle deformation or Wave mod with its gizmo linked to the front of the boat, with the selection tapering off behind the boat as it travels. To get the desired result, you might need to create a custom-shaped object to drive the selection as the boat hull mesh will be overly complex and unnecessary, plus you will most likely need to clip (subtract) the selection from the front a little so that it is immediate and then tails off.

Alternatively, draw out null particles in front of the boat and use a collision test to check for interaction with the hull... This should give a pretty nice result and should also "displace" accordingly - you could also pass particles that are travelling faster than others to an additional event to break up more and generate spray effects.

The wake's wave shape itself will depend on the surface motion of the water and how it has interacted with the boat... I've attached an image which illustrates this nicely with a slow moving boat over still(ish) water - the wake is very uniform due to the initial water surface. A choppy sea surface will result in a more dramatic wake due to the additional displacement. If you really want to go to town, throw it into a reactor water surface, or use flex as it does generate some nice displacements, though you will have to make sure that the surface doesn't end up looking like jelly ;)

Hope all is well at ams and say hi to mchugh for me :)

p

TunnelLight
05-23-2005, 09:06 AM
Thanks for your replies.

Loran: could you tell me a little more about your foam setup if possible.

This may sound a bit stipid but what particle flow setup do I need to make the particles displace a mesh.

Watcha Pete, Mchugh's never in on time so I'll tell him when he bothers to show up.

Mark Playford

loran
05-23-2005, 10:23 AM
Playford, here is my 3ds max file:
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/Boat-foam01.max

You can see its quite simple setup. I use multiply render particle count so adjust it according to your configuration power. I render it as small faces map or vertex render (not really faster) and I enhance the render in compositing tricks.

oatz
05-23-2005, 10:50 PM
Here's another plasma test. This has flowing particles; the purple test didn't. This created some mapping issues, but got through it with some tinkering.

YellowTestC (http://www.khye.com/video/YellowTestC.avi) (DivX)

scrimski
05-24-2005, 12:26 AM
Hello amckay,
can't find maxfileyouwanttouse.max (just kidding)

Thanx

eisenstein
05-24-2005, 12:40 AM
i did a pretty in depth search to see if anyone else has posted about this, but it appears not, so here goes:

i am having a ton of trouble rendering afterburned pflow systems in vray. i contacted the vray folks and they dont have afterburn, so i contacted afterworks, but my emails keep bouncing back to me... so i thought maybe someone here might have solved a similar conundrum. here is the email i sent to them:

i have been having a problem rendering afterburn using vray. the attached
scene is a tyical example of what happens- i work for a while, doing
quickrenders, everything works great; it renders faster than scanline and
looks perfect. then at some random non-repeatable point, the scene
"breaks" and vray crashes any time it tries to render the scene. this
point does not seem to have any particular correlation to a vray setting,
and there is no way to stop it- once it occurs, the scene file is
permenantly corrupt and will never render in vray again. this scene file,
for example, will not render fr51, but it will render every frame before
it.

these scenes will all render error-free in the default scanline, even after they become "corrupt"... so it is definitely an afterburn/vray issue. has anyone else had and solved this issue? we ae running max 7.5, vray 1.46, afterburn 3.2. so frustrating. i have a scene file of the problem, not sure how one uploads such things, so i can email it upon request.

feldy
05-24-2005, 02:12 AM
Every time I used vray with ab it looked like shit. Ive used brazil its ok Ive used final render too and its faster then Brazil when rendering ab stuff. But most vfx houses that are do fx stuff in max tend to stick with the scanline. you can render your scene in vray but do a seperate pass for your vfx stuff.

charleyc
05-24-2005, 07:17 AM
Afterburn is a little different under different renderers (seems mostly due to lighting). Usually, without too much trouble, similar results to the scanline can be achieved, and most often at a decreased render time.


eisenstein - I have used VRay 1.46 a lot with Afterburn 3.1 in R7.1 and had no probles what so ever. I know there is a render issue with 7.5 and Hair and Fur that relates to a call to Mental Ray ( I don't know the specifics, but it was resulting in the problems with Brazil and Hair and Fur). There also seemed to be other issues related to rendering and 3rd party plugs in 7.5 (possibly related?). Perhaps this Afterburn issue is related to that and thus a 7.5 only issue. Have you tried the latest VRay build (1.47.03 I believe)? I have 7.5 but I haven't had a chance to upgrade to AB 3.2, once I do I can try to duplicate the issue you are having. Have you posted any thing on the VRay Forums?

charleyc
05-24-2005, 08:24 AM
I updated to AB 3.2 and using VRay 1.47.03 in max R7.5 I got no crashes in the hour I messed with a scene. About how long does it take to get a crash?

btw Here is an image showing the scanline render and VRay render of one of the AB included scenes and render times. I undersampled the VRay so I hid all the geometry. VRay is a bit faster sometimes when not undersampling (shadows seem faster in VRay), but not near as fast as when undersampled. I get similar results in Brazil.
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/AB_Scanline-vs-VRay.jpg (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/AB_Scanline-vs-VRay.jpg)

blacknight
05-24-2005, 10:39 PM
ok. not entirely sure i have to have to ask this here. but a question for allan. man i just saw the new site of digital domain with the enw making of.. and i have a question you may know the answer. what are thoose RGB passes for the volumetric effects¿?¿?¿? is it for mblur. for relighting in post. i never seen a pass for that before that worked on volumetric effects

eisenstein
05-24-2005, 10:49 PM
forgot to mention that i only just updated to max 7.5, the problem began/persisted in 7 and 7.1. i am running the latest vray build. the crash tends to happen completely randomly, anywhere from 10minutes to several hours into working on a shot. we are rendering billowy smoke, so the detail is not very high, so using vrays adaptive sampling makes a very significant advantage in render times... but i can't get a scene that doesn't get corrupted before its time to send to render- i got close once. as soon as the scene file is corrupt, i just continue forwards in scanline and finish the shot. i would just love to hammer through these shots with vray! i have a very simple scene file... how do i upload it? i'd love it if someone could see if they can render it on their box- possibly its a setting somewhere within the bowels of my box.

PexElroy
05-25-2005, 01:40 AM
Hey all, say I was curious if anyone here has any thoughts how to approach a method and system with PFlow (or its Tool Box Sets) to create a slowly moving and large mushroom blast cloud flow, as seen from a typical outdoor land nuclear explosion. I'd then use Afterburn to shade it.

charleyc
05-25-2005, 03:19 AM
eisenstein - you can e-mail me a scene if you like at workchar@hotmail.com

oatz
05-25-2005, 04:47 AM
Hey all, say I was curious if anyone here has any thoughts how to approach a method and system with PFlow (or its Tool Box Sets) to create a slowly moving and large mushroom blast cloud flow, as seen from a typical outdoor land nuclear explosion. I'd then use Afterburn to shade it.

This is covered extensively by Andy Murdock in Lots of Robots (http://www.lotsofrobots.com) 2 tutorial.

Khye

jason-slab
05-25-2005, 09:12 AM
ok. not entirely sure i have to have to ask this here. but a question for allan. man i just saw the new site of digital domain with the enw making of.. and i have a question you may know the answer. what are thoose RGB passes for the volumetric effects¿?¿?¿? is it for mblur. for relighting in post. i never seen a pass for that before that worked on volumetric effects

i've been trying to find out about this to, i know if u render a moving object using .rpf's u use the velocity channel for motion blur(at least i think this channel is being used), i'd love to be able to render this out as a separate channel. plus i havn't tried it with particles. also i think u use a bent normals pass for relighting

|jason

blacknight
05-25-2005, 12:34 PM
i've been trying to find out about this to, i know if u render a moving object using .rpf's u use the velocity channel for motion blur(at least i think this channel is being used), i'd love to be able to render this out as a separate channel. plus i havn't tried it with particles. also i think u use a bent normals pass for relighting

|jason

yeah i know that. but that dosent work with mr that i know. most of the info passed trought a rpf does not work with mr. at least in version 6. anyways it kinda sucks that the rpf with all that info can only be read with combustion couse i do compositing either with shake or DF.
i kinda wanna check how does the mr api work to see if i can work some nice pass shader for that kinda stuff

jason-slab
05-25-2005, 02:16 PM
hiya blacknight

i'm using rpf's with MR in version 7, seems to work ok!
good idea, let me know if u come up with those shaders, i'll let u know if i discover anything too

|jason

plat4m6
05-29-2005, 10:35 PM
Hi everyone
I was wondering if anyone has tried using Allan's PRB script with TP to bake out fractures made by the fragment operator?

I can't tolerate the idea that shape collisions can only operate with a FLOOR node (not any other moving projectile)... so i want to create my fractured object with TP and basically bake out the fracture to become primitive meshes, and then use reactor dynamics to do the rest of my simulation (set those fractures as part of Fracture collection) etc..

i dont hav access to TP at home, so i havnt been able to try, has any1 out there had a go?

feldy
05-30-2005, 12:24 AM
i do belive that script is for pflow

plat4m6
05-30-2005, 04:39 AM
erm, but TP has a script operator function too..

charleyc
05-30-2005, 04:51 PM
I have never used TP, but it is very unlikely that its syntax would be the same as PFlow. However, you could probably use the same logic to reproduce the effect. This would probably be worth posting at the TP forums, someone there may know the answer.

PexElroy
05-31-2005, 07:56 PM
plat4m6 - not used TP myself, so not sure yet.


A tip though I have done before for reactor 2 ready-meshes is use Adobe Illustrator and create a drawing of the fracture. The tiny shards I use PFlow for. I then use the Illustrator Pathfind tools to (boolean) and carefully cut it up and import that .AI file into 3ds max, extrude them all together and then use it with reactor 2.

But I have found that reactor 2 is not a stable high-accuracy rigid body simulator; it will sometimes fail on a specific or complex task with undesirable surface interpenetration - though tweaking it a lot can aid.