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charleyc
02-22-2005, 07:08 AM
ahhh...strike that...At Time doesn't seem to work at render time.....well, it should point you in the right direction...I hope :P

galagast
02-22-2005, 07:53 AM
waw thanks! i havent used that "at time" function before, although ive seen it in some scripts quite a few times... ill look into that more closely and maybe ill be able to find related functions so that it cud work when rendering.

and yup, orbaz is working now, though it wasnt a while ago... must be my connection or something.. hehe

many thanks! yet im still open to some other solutions. :)

mouj
02-22-2005, 02:34 PM
Heya, thanks Reality3D ! That wind looks cool, so please count me in the interested people for a R5 version of it !
Allan, i'll try that, see what i can do with it.
As you asked for eyecandy and stuff done with PFlow, i'm posting some more tests and stuff using it... First off, i tested that branching thing in a different way, based on spawning, almost killed my machine when trying to render, here are pic1 (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/p_tree01.jpg), and pic2 (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/p_tree02.jpg), and a preview (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/p_tree.avi). Here is a little test done on types (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/vm_type03.avi), and here is one i did quite some time ago, trying out AB (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/blob_disperse.avi). No fancy mapping or anything, as i'm doing these in haste.
That's it for now.

* edit : @ galagast, the scene has 6000 particles, i needed that much to get that "solid" look from the start, but to avoid having too much i also "tightened" the depth of the original mesh, so it actually looks good only when viewed from the front :)

mouj

galagast
02-22-2005, 03:28 PM
waw mouj! how many particles did u use for the text? it looks solid enough for me.
i also did a disintigrating test (http://www.geocities.com/jepoy20/files/disintigrate.zip) way back..
used a mid gradient set with a color the same as the particle so that it looks like it is the particles that are being disintigrated.

cool wind by the way!

SoLiTuDe
02-22-2005, 10:24 PM
thank god for that wind plugin!!! =) it really is BETTER! Thanks Grant Adam, and Allan Mckay!!!

avolution
02-22-2005, 10:58 PM
i have put together a dispersion test, if you so desire to
take a boo at it!

http://www.avolution.com/outgoing/xp23_dispersion.zip

galagast
02-23-2005, 01:43 AM
aww bummer, i really need to have particle tools! I wasnt able to load your file properly, it needs box 1. (i better start saving for it anytime soon!)

although i was able to open the p-view, i wasnt able to pre-view it ... but the setup gives me an idea...:)

can i have a couple of questions regarding your script wiring?
say for a particleIndex i, and at age 5, thus divided by 4 wud be 1.25, how does this resulting value affect the forve value? it only says in the reference the ff:
"applies the script particleFloat value to the .Force value."

thanks for the file! i never thought that spawn can be used to restart particle age not via script!

avolution
02-23-2005, 02:12 PM
Well, since particle age is restarted, and all particles have a maximum age of 60,
then particlefloat=particleage/4 would mean that by the end the maximum force
would be 60/4 or 15...

Script wiring on the new "better wind" allows for all sorts of wonderful effects...
i believe particle index is like a for next counter for particles, but you'd have to ask
someone more knowlegable than me...:shrug:

can i have a couple of questions regarding your script wiring?
say for a particleIndex i, and at age 5, thus divided by 4 wud be 1.25, how does this resulting value affect the forve value? it only says in the reference the ff:
"applies the script particleFloat value to the .Force value."

thanks for the file! i never thought that spawn can be used to restart particle age not via script![/QUOTE]

OlegB
02-23-2005, 02:39 PM
>particle index is like a for next counter for particles, but you'd have to ask
someone<

More info on particle indexing can be found here:

http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=127

Thanks,
Oleg B.

galagast
02-24-2005, 11:50 AM
Thanks for the link sir OlegB! I understand now the difference between ID and Index. many thanks!
okay.. now i get it (i think), so, the younger the particles are, the lower the force will affect them?
For the float value ofparticleIndex 60 which is 15, does it have any effect on the force operator's 1000% value?

mahmoudcg
02-24-2005, 12:21 PM
hi all

this is my first post to this spectacular thread , thnx all , u helped a lot
next
i want to make a particle system that simulate paper sheets flying through paths in air and i want to make the effect of paper folding and resisting to air
i tried the flex modifier to try to reach the effect but it didn't work
i have a model of a paper sheet and i wonder if there's a way i can apply the reactor cloth effect on instance particles of the paper,
i want each sheet to make a reaction corresponding to its motion in the path and not a motion that each sheet repeats through its age

can somebody help me with it?

avolution
02-24-2005, 04:20 PM
When you use script wiring, you will notice that the influence function is disabled,
because the script is taking over control of the influence.

It can be discriibed like this...
if you DON'T use script wiring, then you can set the influence, but you must
modulate this amount via classicial MAX functions (such as using the ANIMATE
butrton on the influence

if you DO use script wiring, the influence is disabled, and the script you write
has 100% control over the influence



For the float value ofparticleIndex 60 which is 15, does it have any effect on the force operator's 1000% value?[/QUOTE]

avolution
02-24-2005, 04:28 PM
Here is an example of some earlier work with particle flow
This used position object and find target ala Sept. 2004

www.avolution.com/outgoing/positionpart.mpg

loran
02-24-2005, 04:47 PM
mahmoud_cs,
Do really want the sheets of paper follow a complex path or simply a direction?
How many sheets?
here is a example simply using Simcloth3 (free plugin)
paper in the wind.mov (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/tutorials/paper-in-the-wind.mov)
and the source file max file (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/tutorials/paper-in-the-wind.max)

few years ago,I done an animation of flags emitted by a soccer ball for a commercial. I animate the motion turbulences on a still flag and use it as shape instance in a particle systeme. The result was believable.

loran
02-24-2005, 04:53 PM
Anyway you can use the Bobo's script for motion transfert (http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__MovingObjects.htm)
of particles to cloth simulated planes.
but I thiink this will requier many power to calculate the simultation...

loran
02-24-2005, 05:51 PM
here is my result using Bobo's motion transfert script :
PFmoveSheets.mov (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/tutorials/PFmoveSheets.mov)
PFmoveSheets.max (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/tutorials/PFmoveSheets.max)

Method:
Define how many objects you want ("N")
adjsut the number of particles in the Birth settings to "N"
particle motion is transfered to "N" GiZmo spheres via bobo script (I delete the scaling line)
create "N" number of planes
align one by one plane/Gizmo
link one by one plane/gizmo

so you have plane flying, following your particles motion

Know we add turbulences
create a spaceWarp/ModifierBased/Noise
use bind to space warp link tool to link planes to the noise
adjust your noise setting :]]

this fake real simulation and no need heavy pre calculation. Its fast, siimple and efficient.

niEt0
02-24-2005, 08:16 PM
I'm working in a personal project
in 3dsmax6, I have a particle system and I need that
the particles be born at diferents times, like for
example... frames 10-20 then 40-60 then 100-120... and
go on. I get this by creating diferent particles
system, but the computer is getting very slow...
and I don't have any idea about scripting and I know
that with "birth script" should be possible to reach
this issue.
Any idea? or help about this?

I hope someone have time to help me, I don't like to
bother other people with my stuff :P

Thx in advance!!

charleyc
02-24-2005, 08:52 PM
you can use a single system set to birth by rate and animate the rate the particles are born. For added control, you can wire the birth rate to a slider and animate the slider to turn the particles on or off.

niEt0
02-24-2005, 09:00 PM
ok I know what you mean but.. 'm using PFflow, is it working in this particle system as well?... I can't find it in the Particle view :(

charleyc
02-24-2005, 09:03 PM
Sorry, yes I was referring to PFlow. The Birthing options are located in the Birth Operator. There you can either birth an amount or by rate over the given frames. Set the frames for the total length of ani, and use rate. The Rate value is animatable.

niEt0
02-24-2005, 09:28 PM
Ok thx! I can animate the rate.. but.. I think what I want to achieve is a bit more complex.

For example: 10 particles be born in between 20 and 30 ( frames ) then 7 particles be born in between 45 and 53, then 25 particles be born in between 70 and 78, then...

So this is what I want to achieve... and I dno't know if this is possible without using "Birth Script" in PFflow.

charleyc
02-24-2005, 09:37 PM
adjust the value of the rate to meet the desired particle numbers. The rate is particles per second. 10 frames (20-30) is 1/3 of a second. 10 particles in that time frame is 30 per second.....

niEt0
02-24-2005, 09:53 PM
Yessss it works!! ... I didn't understand you at first.


Thank you very much for your help... indeed !! :thumbsup:

avolution
02-25-2005, 03:20 AM
I'm a bit confused here...If the particle system is transferring motion over
to the objects via particle flow, why would a noise space warp effect it?

Isn't the transform being passed over from particle flow
from this line....

My_Athmospheric_Gizmos_01[i].transform = pCont.ParticleTM

or does the noise space warp add to the inherited motion.

Also, have you gotten this script to work past one event?
Even if I copy the script operator into downstream events, there does not
seem to be a 1:1 mapping of particles to objects through the flow.....:sad:






Know we add turbulences
create a spaceWarp/ModifierBased/Noise
use bind to space warp link tool to link planes to the noise
adjust your noise setting :]]

this fake real simulation and no need heavy pre calculation. Its fast, siimple and efficient.

avolution
02-25-2005, 03:24 AM
And for really interesting and random effects, why not add a noise controller
on the track view for the rate....

:shrug:

adjust the value of the rate to meet the desired particle numbers. The rate is particles per second. 10 frames (20-30) is 1/3 of a second. 10 particles in that time frame is 30 per second.....

mahmoudcg
02-25-2005, 06:56 PM
loran,
your flying sheets look very good , but they are also few, which is not the case in my scene
i want to animate much much more sheets moving in orbital not so complex paths(about 500 sheets or something like this)
and i don't want them to strugle against wind or something , just give them the feel of flying but when there is a turn or something in the path,their resistance should increase or something

i tried the first method of animating only the shape and using animated particle instances of it but it didn't look good
i tried Bobo's script but instead of creating gizmos and linking planes to it , i just created planes and copied the tranformation matrices of particles to planes
i.e. i made a single change to the script which is

global My_Athmospheric_Gizmos_01 = $plane*
------
where planes are copy instances of a plane to which a reactor cloth modifier is applied and some vertices of the cloth have a keyframed constraint applied
and all planes are elements of a reactor cloth collection
but unluckily it seams that the copied tranformations in the script operator are not reflected in the reactor preview window
nothing moves at all

i encountered some new problems, first i applied an objcet channel id to the pf_source to use it in compositing as a separate layer and saved images in .rla format but the rendered frames have a blank object id channel
i tried a material effect id but with no new results

another one, whenever i copy a material with a particle age diffusion to a dynamic material operator , the application stops responding , tryied it on different machines with the same result

last one, whenever i use a particle motion blur map in the opacity map of the material i get a 100% transparent particles as if there's no opacity map but just zero opacity value

thats all :)
sorry i don't have a web domain to which i can post previews or scene examples but i'll handle this soon
hope u help me with it

avolution
02-25-2005, 07:24 PM
this is very new beta of scripted find target work:thumbsup:



www.avolution.com/outgoing/testfind.zip

depleteD
02-26-2005, 02:38 AM
Hey mahmood, are u trying to animate paper bending the wind? like when a particle turns due to turbulence it bends?

Avolution, what that new find target scirpt supposed to do?


Hey GUys,

I needed to make railroad tracks fall out of the sky for a school project.
The trick was to get the boards orientation to follow a path that the emiiter is on. I used the new expose transform helper. That thing kicks some serious ass.
This is probably a overly complex way of geting something simple. I've been out of pflow for awile.

http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/PflowResearch/trackLay.avi

depleteD
02-26-2005, 03:48 AM
Hey mahmood,

I have an idea for your paper.
Get the script that attaches objects to particles, then attach cloth to the objects attached to the particles.
This is only theory, im gonna try it when i have some time, cause i wanted this effect on my feathers but should werk. Use Cloth that can only bend a certain way like divisions on 1 axis.


Hey if u guys figure out how to get xposetransform to grab a single particle it would be greatly apprciated. But only apprciated if u tell me ;).
-ANdrew

mahmoudcg
02-27-2005, 01:00 PM
hi all

i just made the flying sheets at last
Bobo's script is gr8 but its almost imposible to use in case of hundreds or even thousands of paticles
i just bound the shape instance to an animated noise space wrap and it did the job well

now i want to make an effect but still can't reach it
i want all particles when finish the path collect into one spot to form a page of a book then the particle should die after resting in its spot

i tried the find targettest but i actually don't know what space wrap would make all particles stop in a single spot or plane

any ideas?

depleteD
02-27-2005, 04:47 PM
damn mahmood post your results! :D

What I think you want to do is do an aseembly. WHich isnt quite possible. What I do to fake it is reverse the playbake of particles flying of a position from initial state.

You might want to try and build a flow that grabs 1 particle at a time then sends it to find a target at a single vertice.

-Andrew

druigant
02-27-2005, 08:31 PM
Hi guy,
I'm new in this forum, and I have read mony page of this forum (more but not all why is very hard for me to read in english language)

I have a simple little question. I have read and reproduced the tutorial about fireworks...but I have a trouble: in this tut the particle birth with a date velocity and after is spawn...etc
but I want that these particle birth with an acceleration and after de-acceleration (to refrain..?you have understood?)..

my idea is use a wind with positive and after negative value...but the paticle birth at different time and I want this de-celeration is not simultaneus...

I hope of to have been clear and to have written correctly...

thanks thousands at all

avolution
02-27-2005, 08:47 PM
Yes, you want to have the force of the wind controlled by the age of the particles...


with a line in a script operator it is very simple

pCont.particlefloat = pCont.particleAge / n

where n is the number that works

Check out my fireworks in the tutorials section of
Orbaz.com called Fireworks by Mark Pigott

The script you need is there, in fact the whole max scene is there also...


enjoy...



Hi guy,
I'm new in this forum, and I have read mony page of this forum (more but not all why is very hard for me to read in english language)

I have a simple little question. I have read and reproduced the tutorial about fireworks...but I have a trouble: in this tut the particle birth with a date velocity and after is spawn...etc
but I want that these particle birth with an acceleration and after de-acceleration (to refrain..?you have understood?)..

my idea is use a wind with positive and after negative value...but the paticle birth at different time and I want this de-celeration is not simultaneus...

I hope of to have been clear and to have written correctly...

thanks thousands at all

druigant
02-28-2005, 12:19 PM
Very very tanks Avolution...

But I have already another little question..

I have a lots of particles and at certain time is stopped. In this moment I want spawn this particles (1 to 5 particle to increase the quality ...) , I have used a test age and after a spawn (once, offsprimg 5 and spawnable 100%)
but this particle spawn in the same place of the first particle but I want if the spawn particle birth around the first particle. as I can make it??

second question...this problem is been born why I want make this partcile similar to powder, I have used a material with opacity (gradient map, circular type) very strong. But the result is good in the center of image (very high number of particle) but not in the end (very small number of particle)..

I am sure having made many errors of English... sorry

druigant
02-28-2005, 08:43 PM
http://it.geocities.com/cazzatagrossa/test2.jpghttp://it.geocities.com/cazzatagrossa/test.jpg

in the first image I have increased the size of particle....(and the color)

but the problem remain

avolution
02-28-2005, 08:50 PM
2) Also, do you face set map turned on for the opacity map?


1) What do you have the INHERET PERCENT set to????
At 100%, the spawns will track the Parent,
while at 0% perecent they will not inheret any speed.
Check out this parameter...
it takes me a while to decode your english:)



Very very tanks Avolution...

But I have already another little question..

I have a lots of particles and at certain time is stopped. In this moment I want spawn this particles (1 to 5 particle to increase the quality ...) , I have used a test age and after a spawn (once, offsprimg 5 and spawnable 100%)
but this particle spawn in the same place of the first particle but I want if the spawn particle birth around the first particle. as I can make it??

second question...this problem is been born why I want make this partcile similar to powder, I have used a material with opacity (gradient map, circular type) very strong. But the result is good in the center of image (very high number of particle) but not in the end (very small number of particle)..

I am sure having made many errors of English... sorry

druigant
02-28-2005, 11:26 PM
it takes me a while to decode your english

ehehhe....but you are a good decoder...!!!:thumbsup:


http://it.geocities.com/cazzatagrossa/tst.jpg

(left to right) the first is when I use the 100% inherit velocity...the five red particle spawn and after they continue their race with the same speed of the mother particle

the second is the 0% velocity (the 5particle spawn but remain in the same place)

the third example is my objective...the 5particle spawn around the mother and if go out at 360...and after their continue their race with the same speed of mother...


if possible??

charleyc
03-01-2005, 12:06 AM
adjust the Divergence angle under the speed inheritance amount to 360.

druigant
03-01-2005, 12:22 AM
2) Also, do you face set map turned on for the opacity map?

sorry but I don't understand this...please you repeat it with other words...:shrug:


resolved problem!!!:thumbsup:



tanks avolution
and
tanks charleyc

avolution
03-01-2005, 02:26 AM
Sorry, I had a dsylexia moement...
What I meant to say is, Do you have the face map option checked for the
material. For example, for this to work, you need to have a radial opacity
map (as you mentioned you have) AND the face map option checked for
particle flow to face map the particles...:scream:




sorry but I don't understand this...please you repeat it with other words...:shrug:


resolved problem!!!:thumbsup:



tanks avolution
and
tanks charleyc

druigant
03-01-2005, 08:25 PM
yeah!!!

@avolution: yes I have already used the "face map" in the material editor.



inasmuch as you are all much kind (and good also) of it I am useful in order makes an other question you.

I put a link to these file made from the blizzard (is found in the discreet web-site about pflow)...http://it.geocities.com/cazzatagrossa/pflow.swf (the quality is not very the best and it is much small like video )

the question is simple: how can I make something of similar at this animation?? I know how reproduce the animation but not the render,and the material, and the result homogenous and delicate .... (:shrug: I do not know well like explaining it seriously)

I must use a very large number of particle with motion blur...the secret is only this????or another??



ehm ehm!!I hope you have understood to me.

avolution
03-01-2005, 10:38 PM
check this out

www.avolution.com/outgoing/mark42.mpg

SoLiTuDe
03-02-2005, 12:02 AM
druigant: I believe that was actually rendered out in a dif. program... kinda like: Image Savant - S P O R E (http://www.imagesavant.com/index.html) or something. Otherwise... if you follow allanmkcay's fire tutorial (which his website still isn't up so i'll do my best)... that explains a little bit of something similar. I'm sure it's covered elsewhere in this thread... but it'll probably be quicker for me to type it than to go find it... basically give each particle a sphere for shape, create a material dynamic (or static... dunno which one works better) for it, and apply a basic material. Diffuse: particle age... set some colors like red/orange getting alittle bit lighter over age. Then Specular level: 170, glossiness to like 50 Specular color to orangish. Then opacity down to 5. Under Extended param. under the mat. go to filter color and make it a light gray like 210 or something (this will make particles brighter if it gets layd on top of other particles) Then go to the top of the pflow, and right click PF Source 01 and go to properties... check image motion blur, then render... The size of the sphere for the shape should be relatively small if there is a large number of particles... depends on the scene I guess. Good luck! :buttrock: take a look at: http://home.comcast.net/~djsolitude/Pflow_Fire.max (http://home.comcast.net/%7Edjsolitude/Pflow_Fire.max)
that is what i came up with after following the tutorial...

+--Solitude--+

charleyc
03-02-2005, 12:10 AM
Although I don't know what ulitmately was used to render it with, I believe that file came with the r5 pFlow extension...anyway, I think I have seen that max file. It is LOTS (LOTS and LOTS) of particles with a turbulent wind force and possibly motion blur. Perhaps if you asked Oleg, he could send you the file... if he has it?

SoLiTuDe
03-02-2005, 05:40 AM
i have the file... but it has no material or render settings at all. it wasn't rendered in max. He said he knows how to produce the animation part... but he doesn't understand the rendering and materials and such... I think this is something that should be talked about more... it seems like we can all make particles move all cool, and do what we want, but how do we get them to render well and look well... etc. I've always had a problem with this too. Afterburn obviously, and facing particles... and allan's way to do it for fire... but what else is there.. I think somebody should make a good tutorial on just materials and rendering for particles. Maybe when I learn it all i will, but till then.... I know there's most of it in this thread, but it'd be cool to see it all on one page. :)

stefan
03-02-2005, 09:48 AM
I knew it will come again. This question. File was rendered with help of particle point renderer. Do not know if it is program or plug but deffinetly it is no comercialy available. Do a search.

galagast
03-02-2005, 04:28 PM
Point rendering was tackled somewhere here in this thread a long time ago. I dont really recall anyone giving a link to any kind of point rendering plugins.. but just in case anyone is interested, if you're using max 7, they've included a tutorial on how to do a vertex renderer in the maxscript helpfile (how to's section)... its kinda close (i guess), but i havent really tried it yet. Although i can see from the sample renders that you'd lose some particle depth..

here's the maxscript help file for max7 (c/o bobo): ftp://ftp.discreet.com/pub2/web/pro...pdated_help.exe

(i just tried it after posting this, and it looks cool, try setting up a simple scene, a sphere will do, and enable the vertex renderer... afterwards you could try rotating your bview and the renderer will update instantanously. :D ,works like having a detached viewport. hehe)

what i usually do (and i bet most you do this too) is to render separate batches of particles and just mix them in a compositing program... I think i did something like around 40 sets with 8,000 particles each... just set a new seed for its position and send it away to your render nodes. :)

loran
03-02-2005, 04:43 PM
your link is invalid, I M VERY INTERESTED IN!!!
could repost the link?

charleyc
03-02-2005, 04:48 PM
it is the link to the updated Help files for r7..you should be able to find them on the discreet support site.

The problem with the Vertex Render is it still is limited by the amount of particles that max can handle. The file in reference has several millions of particles..way too many for standard max to render (I have tried this file).

There is a lot of interest in this point rendering method for particles, I imagine we will start to see products available fairly soon using this.

loran
03-02-2005, 04:56 PM
your link is invalid, I M VERY INTERESTED IN!!!
could repost the link?

galagast
03-02-2005, 04:58 PM
i'll be looking forward to something like that in the future... it could really help in the effects industry.

hey loran! here you go, i just copied and pasted the code from the file... :thumbsup:


macroScript VertexRender category:"HowTo"

(

local VertexRendererEnabled = false

local screen_width, screen_height, back_vfb, front_vfb

fn VertexRendererFunction =

(

st = timestamp()

copy back_vfb front_vfb

for o in geometry where classof o != TargetObject do

(

theMesh = snapshotAsMesh o

dot_color = #(o.wirecolor)

theVertCount = theMesh.numverts

for v = 1 to theVertCount do

(

thePos = (getVert theMesh v)* viewport.getTM()

screen_origin = mapScreenToView [0,0] (thePos.z) [screen_width,screen_height]

end_screen = mapScreenToView [screen_width,screen_height] (thePos.z) [screen_width,screen_height]

world_size = screen_origin-end_screen

x_aspect = screen_width/(abs world_size.x)

y_aspect = screen_height/(abs world_size.y)

screen_coords = point2 (x_aspect*(thePos.x-screen_origin.x)) (-(y_aspect*(thePos.y-screen_origin.y)))

setPixels front_vfb screen_coords dot_color

)--end v loop

)--end o loop

display front_vfb

et = timestamp()

pushPrompt ("VertRender " +(1000.0/(et-st)) as string + " fps")

)--end fn



on isChecked return VertexRendererEnabled



on execute do

(

VertexRendererEnabled = not VertexRendererEnabled



if VertexRendererEnabled then

(

screen_width=RenderWidth

screen_height=RenderHeight

back_vfb = bitmap screen_width screen_height

front_vfb = bitmap screen_width screen_height

registerRedrawViewsCallback VertexRendererFunction

RedrawViews()

)

else

(

unRegisterRedrawViewsCallback VertexRendererFunction

close front_vfb

)

)--end on execute



)--end script






*** this is not my code, it came from discreet max7 - maxscript help file :)

just run the script and look for it under the preferences-> how to category... place it in a menu so that you could enable and disable it easily...
its a callback the works whenever a redrawing of views has occured, so even if you close the render window, it will still pop up again whenever you move or do somthing in max. And you could also note under the status line, there is a timestamp info on how long (or how quick) it took to render.

(sori about the link loran... i guess the site must be down or something...)

loran
03-02-2005, 05:03 PM
your link is invalid, I M VERY INTERESTED IN!!!
could repost the link?

loran
03-02-2005, 05:06 PM
sorry for the repeat :// The server feel busy just when i post and it seem to have duplicate my post.
I m dwnld the update help from discreet...
I ever load this script but I m not scripter and i dont understand anything to this :/

galagast
03-02-2005, 05:16 PM
no problem, copy the code, and under MAXscript, select New Script, and paste it there. afterwards, press CTRL+E or go to file->evaluate...

then go to your preferences, and click on the menus tab...
look under the "category" for the word "HowTo"... you'll see that there is a VertexRender item under it.
now on the right side, expand rendering (or any item you want) and drag VertexRender to the right side, youll notice that it will insert itself anywhere you drop it.
once you're done with that part close the window and you could now go to your rendering menu to see that VertexRender has been added. :D
when you click on it, it will have a check mark, meaning its active, just click on it again to deactivate it.
i hope this helps!

loran
03-02-2005, 05:25 PM
yesss thx !!
impressiv real time render!
now for the questions:
-how render and save a sequence? go frame to frame and sav image each time??
-the problem is that the vertexrender is rendering the viewport, so you cant multiply the particles number for render as you can do normally (by adjusting the percentage over 100%)
You can only hide the diplay in PF View but your system have to handle you particle anyway:/

any test? solution??

Laserschwert
03-02-2005, 05:39 PM
Regarding the "particle count" issue, you don't necessarily have to re-render the sequence with different seeds. Since it's a VERTEX renderer, you just have to use a piece of geometry as your particle shape, and every vertex of each particle gets a point in the rendered frame. Still, it would be useful to get the particles' positions on render time (so that the separate spinners for "viewport %" and "render %" make sense here).

Also it would be nice to define the color of the points by the actual material of the particle system... at least there should be some way to affect the point color, transparency and filter color (to make the points be rendered additively / substractively... if those are words) by something else than the viewport color.

Would this actually be possible with this script?

loran
03-02-2005, 05:49 PM
500 000 particles flying in the wind :)

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/vertexrender00.jpg


Also I m OK with Laserschwert about vertex color, alpha , additiv etc etc...
Any good guy to do that?? :D

Pkonst
03-02-2005, 05:49 PM
I have played with this tutorial sometime ago, and even got it to render sequences. But there are a lot of issues. For example speed isn't such great :( Without antialiasing it looks really bad when animation is rendered :( Some other things...
But it will be great to see some advanced point renderer, I heard Blizzard use it's own to made this example, you all have seen.

loran
03-02-2005, 05:59 PM
Hey Pkonst! It would be intereting to share your script modifications to render a sequence. This must be easy fo a scripter to push this function in a classical render type we could choose as we do between Mental or Scanline... I ll post this demand in the fantastic cgtalk Maxscript Thread tomorrow ...

OOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooh ... :D


http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/vertexrender01.jpg

Pkonst
03-02-2005, 07:04 PM
I will try to dig my hdd for this script, but I'm not promise anything, it was some dumb hack of Bobo's tutorial example, because I'm not a scripter too :( There was already similar thread in Maxscripting forum, specially to create this script for pflow, but nobody was interested, except Bobo have pointed to his own tutorial. Try to search those forum...

Also, I think this kind of stuff should be interesting for 3rd party renderer developers. It should be much better if it will be implemented into the core of such renderer. I have seen similar requests on Chaos Group Vray forum, but there was no response also :(

Bezerker75
03-02-2005, 08:32 PM
is there a way to get particles to collide with each other, like (inter-particle collisions)...say for instance I have a wall and i want 200 spheres to hit a floor and collide with each other, and form a pile of spheres?
thanks

loran
03-02-2005, 09:45 PM
I ever post a test about inter particles collision in this thread

here's the files

http://forumel.free.fr/collision.jpg

movie (http://forumel.free.fr/collision01.mov)
and
max file (http://forumel.free.fr/collision01.max)

Bezerker75
03-02-2005, 10:01 PM
yeah that's pretty dam cool....thanks man....now i have hours to play to get my effect instead of days...sweet thanks again

is there any way to make it so that partcles collide with each another in the same pflow source, rather than with another pflow source... and kind of make a pile...

depleteD
03-03-2005, 12:45 AM
Hey loran, props on the creativity of your particle collision flow.

galagast
03-03-2005, 01:34 AM
Regarding the "particle count" issue, you don't necessarily have to re-render the sequence with different seeds. Since it's a VERTEX renderer...

:) i was refering to druigants' question on the previous page... he showed a link to a rendered animation of a max sample file which contains probably millions of particles, those things cant normally be rendered in just any machine at one pass with motion blur and all... but im not even sure if they also did it in separate passes. I guess i kinda mixed things up on my previous post.. hehe



And yup, having those options for the vertex renderer would be abosolutely awesome. If only its also possible to rendor those with motion blur...

Hey loran! cool setup on your collisions! glad you got the renderer working! :scream:

avolution
03-03-2005, 02:42 AM
deflectors for the wall...send test to gravity and wind, a find target and keep apart test
for falling particles, a stop function at the end. I'm away from MAx right now, but when I
read this tommorow, I'll see what I can come up with...



is there a way to get particles to collide with each other, like (inter-particle collisions)...say for instance I have a wall and i want 200 spheres to hit a floor and collide with each other, and form a pile of spheres?
thanks

loran
03-03-2005, 08:05 AM
"... and kind of make a pile..."

I failed to do that kind of behavior in PF. KeepApart is not easy to handle and this effect is near fluids system. Try Glu3d plugin from 3dalien, there is some connections with PF.
Maybe you could try reactor, you will have real geometry detection collision . There is a animation sample (520 Pencils_large.mov (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/520%20Pencils_large.mov)) in the 3dsmax6 pack with hundreds of pencils falling on a plane and forming a pile for some of them, impressive animation but there is no source max file from it :/


a stop function at the end.
Avolution, this produce unreal effects cause if a sphere approch another by the border, it will stop there. you ll have sphere stop in the air without geometry under for support. just stopped because there is another sphere by its side.

loran
03-03-2005, 09:04 AM
Pkonst said:
There was already similar thread in Maxscripting forum, specially to create this script for pflow, but nobody was interested, except Bobo have pointed to his own tutorial. Try to search those forum...
Which maxscripting forum are you talking about? where is the Bobo s tutorial ????

druigant
03-03-2005, 11:56 AM
Tanks Galagast and avolution and solitude....and at all in this thread for tricks and help...

this is a frame (480 in total...for 20sec of video) of my animation for which I have made the questions you.

Is the dead of a star and after the birth of a little nebula. (in this frame is the esplosion and in the background you found the trasparent particle for the nebula)
http://it.geocities.com/cazzatagrossa/307.jpg

but in this frame I don't have used the vertex render....I must still try it.

loran
03-03-2005, 02:33 PM
there is a lot of fun to hav with vertex render. If only some guys could enable a sequence renderer :/
I previously forget to push up the system limitation in PF (100 000 parts only by default)

here is the base render (the real one is 2000x1500)-500 000 particles
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/vertexrender04-base.jpg


and after blur, minimum and downscale
http://forumel.free.fr/vertexrender04psd.jpg

druigant
03-03-2005, 03:17 PM
please Loran do you poste settings for "minimum and downscale"??
I like a lot this picture...



there is a lot of fun to hav with vertex render. If only some guys could enable a sequence renderer :/
I previously forget to push up the system limitation in PF (100 000 parts only by default)

here is the base render (the real one is 2000x1500)-500 000 particles



and after blur, minimum and downscale

loran
03-03-2005, 03:39 PM
I mean duplicate the base render in photoshop or AE on 2 or 3 layers, using additive transition , setting opacity and adding some blur. You can adjust level too.I use Minimax filter at the end - AE: effects/channel/minimax set to minimum-

I render the base image at upper size because when you scale down, the isolated pixel/particles are blended in sub pixel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to obtain diffrent vertex colors with vertex render by scripted division of the particles depend on camera distance. but each script pass mean double amount of calculation so I give up. But that works :)

druigant
03-03-2005, 04:31 PM
ehi Loran tanks for the tricks...


but how you have made rendering in max?

Pkonst
03-03-2005, 05:35 PM
Here is the updated code of Bobo's tutorial script, It has no UI and you should not use Render (F10) to save sequence. Actually I even don't remember how exactly it works, but it worked for me some time ago, hope it helps and you get it to work :)
(
local framenum
local VertexRendererEnabled = false
local screen_width, screen_height, back_vfb, front_vfb
local front_vfb
screen_width=RenderWidth
screen_height=RenderHeight
front_vfb = bitmap screen_width screen_height filename:rendOutputFilename numframes: (animationrange.end - animationrange.start)
back_vfb = bitmap screen_width screen_height
for t = animationrange.start to animationrange.end do
(
at time t
(
for o in selection where classof o != TargetObject do
(
theMesh = $
dot_color = #(o.wirecolor)
$.updateparticles $ t
partpos = $.getparticleposition
for v = 1 to $.numparticles() do
(
thePos = (partpos v)* viewport.getTM()
screen_origin = mapScreenToView [0,0] (thePos.z) [screen_width,screen_height]
end_screen = mapScreenToView [screen_width,screen_height] (thePos.z) [screen_width,screen_height]
world_size = screen_origin-end_screen
x_aspect = screen_width/(abs world_size.x)
y_aspect = screen_height/(abs world_size.y)
screen_coords = point2 (x_aspect*(thePos.x-screen_origin.x)) (-(y_aspect*(thePos.y-screen_origin.y)))
setPixels front_vfb screen_coords dot_color
)--end v loop
)--end o loop
-- sleep 0.2
-- display front_vfb
-- sleep 0.2
save front_vfb frame: t
copy back_vfb front_vfb
)
)
)--end script


Which maxscripting forum are you talking about? where is the Bobo s tutorial ????
I mean that there was a thread about point-renderer in maxscript forum here on cgtalk.com already, started by erka2, and there was no answer except Bobo have answered that max 7 maxscript tutorials have something similar (that you know already). So I think your new thread will be quiet as well as erka2's old thread (can't find it now).

Also here is really old thread about this stuff by Jeff Patton: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=92130&highlight=phantom+render As you can see - nothing new since those times has happened. You can try mail John Burnett about all this stuff, but I'm sure he will have a lot of reasons to not tell all details :(

druigant
03-07-2005, 12:19 AM
tanks


in this moment I have another problem for you... I have assigned a material dynamic to a lot of particle and this look good.

but if I use a sub-material (with two material when isolated work fine) the particle is rendered bad, like a plane without the opacity map...

the sub-material don't use the opacity in the sub-mat,when used for pflow?


same error if I use the frequency mat.


sorry for my english but today nobody help me....ehheeh

depleteD
03-07-2005, 12:28 AM
Hey loran u useing that point renderer posted a couple pages ago?

Man it would be nice if discreet would integrate a point renderer

loran
03-07-2005, 09:22 AM
I ve done a basic tutorial on how render Vertex particles. You can watch it at http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/ in tutrorials/particleflow vertex render.

I m always waiting for more developed script to use this as a sequence render and without having to display the same number of particles in viewport and render. Bobo answer me on the maxscript thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2016895#post2016895) that some guys had works on this, and add possibility to use Effects render on it (Gasp!) but it's somewhere... in the web. If someone have infos please share it!!

druigant
03-07-2005, 11:29 AM
good work Loran, I have look your web-site, very nice.



but the image (the second) when you have posted 6 post after this, is a render with 3dsmax render or the vertex-render and after works with Photoshop??



tanks

loran
03-07-2005, 02:59 PM
druigant, It s not 3ds max direct render, the first image is, the second is a multi layer in PSD as it can be done in AE.

I add another tutorial on how to improve vertex render in AE
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/

depleteD
03-07-2005, 09:20 PM
Hey Loran that is hot shit,

It really needs to be able to be able to render a seq and register render multipliers.
I bet thats right around the corner tho.

avolution
03-07-2005, 10:05 PM
very cool stuff, you've got me thinkin of using photosho pas post, as I
have no afterburn , and heck , only release 6...but i for pf tools box #1...

hafta do some experimenting!:)




I add another tutorial on how to improve vertex render in AE
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/

loran
03-09-2005, 04:53 PM
Pkonst, thanks for your script!! it WORKS!!

you have first to define you render range, size and a "save to output" in (F10) traditionnal render window.
Then create a particle system animation

select your particle system an EVALUATE the script

the image sequence is created where you set it before.

Great!

I will work on it !

avolution
03-09-2005, 09:07 PM
Interesting thing, this vertex renderer is not available for Max6!
(But I have a plan)...when i get time i'll figure out a vertex renderer
for max 6 (somehow)



Pkonst, thanks for your script!! it WORKS!!

you have first to define you render range, size and a "save to output" in (F10) traditionnal render window.
Then create a particle system animation

select your particle system an EVALUATE the script

the image sequence is created where you set it before.

Great!

I will work on it !

avolution
03-09-2005, 10:21 PM
Do you have a sub material set up properly a) you need show material in viewport
set in pflow option on mat dynamic b) you need to set up how many sub-materials
you are going to use c)you need to ensure each sub mat has the radial (i assume)
opacity map

if you could you email mai me a file i can take a look at it for you....

mpigott@avolution.com



tanks


in this moment I have another problem for you... I have assigned a material dynamic to a lot of particle and this look good.

but if I use a sub-material (with two material when isolated work fine) the particle is rendered bad, like a plane without the opacity map...

the sub-material don't use the opacity in the sub-mat,when used for pflow?


same error if I use the frequency mat.


sorry for my english but today nobody help me....ehheeh

druigant
03-09-2005, 11:22 PM
:thumbsup: tanks Avolution.....

(the material is the same when I have used after. I have used the mat1, after the mat2 and is ok.....but when I use the multi-mat [with mat1 and mat2] the result is strange...different....


ok.....I work a little time for rearrange the file that actually is really messed up!!!

loran
03-10-2005, 10:16 AM
here is a animation test using vertex render script (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/sequence_vertex_render.ms) and post effects in ae.


http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/videos/vertexrender.jpg (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/videos/vertexrender-post.mov)


and here is the base max render in one minute!!:
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/videos/vertexrender-base.mov

jason-slab
03-10-2005, 12:58 PM
nice loran

got some more info on this for us? like particle count, and is that animation your render output size?

\jason

loran
03-10-2005, 01:25 PM
Thanks Jason,
here is another animated render: http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/videos/pixel-particles-sor.mov
I render it 2500x1500, 500 000 particles - 3frames/minutes on a bi xeon 2.8.
I add some blur and median filter, and scale down to 768x576 in AE. (see tutorial on my website)

I create an UI for the script. download (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/sequence_vertex_render_UI.ms)


http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/pixelrenderscript.jpg

drop it to your viewport (max7 only) and have fun !

stefan
03-10-2005, 02:04 PM
Thank U loran.

druigant
03-10-2005, 02:14 PM
good job Loran....very good!

tkuehnl
03-11-2005, 02:05 AM
Must have solid reel. Must be available by this weekend. Do not bother to reply if later then 03/12/05.

tkuehnl at rapid-td dot com

Thanks!

jason-slab
03-11-2005, 06:57 AM
hey nice work loran!! thx for the info and the script!

|jason

amckay
03-11-2005, 10:16 PM
tkuehnlcontact mitch gates -

I worked with him on blade trinity when we were both using TP to do all the vampire deaths etc.

try mitch@digitaldimension.com or mgates@digitaldimension.com

he's a pretty all round solid user in LA I'd recommend. He might be able to work nights.

you're not going to find many TP users in LA, I can recommend a handful if he's not available. but they'll pretty much be THE only TP users IN la : )

avolution
03-12-2005, 06:37 AM
Wow! Your link kinda works...We've been months without allanmckay.com,
but you'll notice some scripters on cgtalk, and orbaz.com...to cover the vacuum
whilst you were absent:thumbsup:

www.avolution.com




tkuehnlcontact mitch gates -

I worked with him on blade trinity when we were both using TP to do all the vampire deaths etc.

try mitch@digitaldimension.com or mgates@digitaldimension.com

he's a pretty all round solid user in LA I'd recommend. He might be able to work nights.

you're not going to find many TP users in LA, I can recommend a handful if he's not available. but they'll pretty much be THE only TP users IN la : )

loran
03-12-2005, 10:00 AM
Can any scripter help me?
when use Bobo's real time pixel particle render script (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/bobo-vertex_realtime.ms), the color of pixel correspond to the color of PF Diplay Operator. This way you can use Age Test operator to animate color by age.
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/realtimepixelrender.jpg


But the modified script (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/sequence_vertex_render_UI.ms) (share by PKonst and wich I add an UI )to render sequence, render PF source object color (generaly grey). The script code about color seam to be the same for both script.
Anyone to solve this?

RichardBlank
03-13-2005, 10:22 PM
Great partickles Loran!
It would be nice to have it with image motion blur ;)

amckay
03-14-2005, 12:19 AM
finally got it back

will put up the old site this week sometime
new reel I'll be cutting this week
hopefully a bunch of other crap, pending on how much time permits.

ack, wonder how many emails bounced in the last 3 months!

tkuehnl
03-14-2005, 01:04 AM
Hey Allan, I sent you a PM regarding my TP post the other day. Drop me a line at tkuehnl@rapid-td.com if you have the time to chat for a bit.

Thanks,

Todd Kuehnl
TD/FX
Rapid-TD

finalight
03-14-2005, 02:36 AM
Well I can account for 2 emails bounced back to us ; ) We're interested in talking with you about creating some cg explosion w/ Pflow, Afterburn, etc. It's been the #1 request from users taking the pre 'free FX download' survey on our site. Looking forward to seeing your site - never been there, heard about it.

Regards,

Brian DeMetz
~~~~~~~~
VFX Animator
Final Light Productions
www.finalight.com (http://www.finalight.com/)

depleteD
03-14-2005, 03:37 AM
I'm planing to make a character freeze and "crumble" as the character's skin deforms using customChunks.

Here is a quick r and d

Crits and comments are welcome.

ANdrew

http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/PflowResearch/crumble.avi

SoLiTuDe
03-14-2005, 07:30 AM
looks like a good start, depleteD ... how's it set up to break off? (velocity?) they just kinda POP off is my only thing, unless that's what you're goin for. Keep posting the progress. look interesting! it'd be cool to see it/something break off at like a certain bend angle or something, so like a sheet of ice would crack as something bends or whatever

depleteD
03-14-2005, 08:32 PM
It breaks off when it accels past a point from a lockbond. THe speed is off and everything.

What u described is exactly what i want to do, break off when it reaches a certain angle.
Not sure how I'm gonna do that tho.

-Andrew

Daniel-B
03-15-2005, 02:08 AM
I've been trying to figure out how to create an awesome lava geyser like the one in the Episode III trailer. Anyone know how to do this?

jussing
03-15-2005, 08:08 AM
Hey Pixel, wasn't there a thread about that once, and didn't you get some good results?

- Jonas

EDIT: Oh wait, that was this thread, about page 100... nevermind. :)

Daniel-B
03-15-2005, 06:17 PM
Yeah, I got some pretty good looking lava. But it looked rather small. Nothing on the large scale of a lava geyser.

SoLiTuDe
03-15-2005, 07:16 PM
I suggest taking a look over in the visual fx forum's FX Wars thread... the last contest was specifically "volcano" (in a city) so i'm sure after looking at some of those you may be able to ask one of the (few) contestants how they did it.

finalight
03-15-2005, 07:52 PM
Particle life is set within afterburn and in pflow to 100, with "use" clicked on within afterburn's rollout.

All the AFC controllers have sensible start/end values.

The thing is it happens across a single frame. Particles are born at frame 660. Frame 692 everything is fine, frame 693 and onwards what gets rendered is simply black where the afterburn proxy spheres are in the frame. I have other afterburn elements in the scene that are still rendering fine after this frame, so that suggests it's the settings for that particular instance. If I copy the settings and paste them into a different instance, that renders ok - so I'm not sure where the problem lies?

Edit: so I just added a new afterburn instance into the environment, and pasted the old settings in...and deleted the old instance. All the settings are identical but now the problem is gone. Ghosts in the machine I tell you!

Alex,

Found an older post of yours with a few others about the Explode AFC causing Aburn to render black.

Kresimir at Afterworks just sent us a AB3.1x fix to test out that should resolve this issue with the AFC's getting messed up - especially when the key values/positions are animated. We'll let you know how it goes.

You'll get an email response soon regarding the VFX explosions you're working on. Glad to have you with us.

Regards,

depleteD
03-21-2005, 01:17 PM
Hey guys,

SO I'm trying to animate a stream of ships.
after 30 seconds i have them split off into directions.

I shape instanced a group. THat inherits the material and mapping.
WHen the particles exit to the next event, they retain the shape, but they dont retain the mapping and material.


http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/PflowResearch/shipStream.zip

anyone have any solutions.

loran
03-21-2005, 01:35 PM
depleteD, it seam to work if you do this:

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/temp1.jpg

It s usefull to put permanent operator at the Source level sometimes :)

galagast
03-21-2005, 01:37 PM
im not sure if this would work.. maybe you could try placing your shape instance op on the Global (top most) event, and if you also have mapping operators, place them there as well... I cant test it here coz it seems that you're using max 7, i only hav 6...

I hope this helps!


[edit: loran has a more visual answer. hehe, didnt see his post before posting this. :) ]

depleteD
03-21-2005, 07:47 PM
yea i tried that, no dice, the shapes stay the same but the mapping doesnt continue

avolution
03-22-2005, 07:39 PM
Have you considered using a birth script instead?


yea i tried that, no dice, the shapes stay the same but the mapping doesnt continue

avolution
03-22-2005, 09:03 PM
http://www.avolution.com/outgoing/test1001.mpg

charleyc
03-22-2005, 09:24 PM
yea i tried that, no dice, the shapes stay the same but the mapping doesnt continue

It seems to me that the mapping is maintained. Just add a Material Operator with your ships material at the top with the Render Operator. That will carry it through all events.

jason-slab
03-23-2005, 07:52 AM
hey all

i was playing around this morning with the idea of smaller particles "swarming" randomly around bigger parent particles. heres a very simple idea using the keep apart op.
http://www.solidpda.com/jasons/misc/particle_swarm_test.zip - 517kb

what do u guys think?

|jason

depleteD
03-23-2005, 08:14 AM
AH k I fixed my problem. I guess haveing a the material at the global lvl workd. The ids, materials, and shapes are carrying through to other events.

Thanks guys.

charleyc
03-23-2005, 08:19 AM
hey all

i was playing around this morning with the idea of smaller particles "swarming" randomly around bigger parent particles. heres a very simple idea using the keep apart op.
http://www.solidpda.com/jasons/misc/particle_swarm_test.zip - 517kb

what do u guys think?

|jason

That is a very useful use of the operator, I use a similar setup for water effects to simulate the attraction water has with itself.

PeteDraper
03-24-2005, 02:42 AM
hey guys & gals

I've dropped a few other particle-orientated papers/tutorials to the education section of my site, and also a sample chapter from the dte book complete with reference material (39mb zip file) and all the works that makes heavy use of pflow for grass distribution and floating debris on an animated water surface.

enjoy!

pete

Cryptite
03-27-2005, 08:30 PM
Hey guys, I have a quite particle intensive scene where several battleships and battlecruisers are opening fire on each other and i've chosen Pflow for everything. However, given that there are anywhere from 5 to 7 turrets per each ship and 7 ships total (so far, at least), The only way I can think of is one PF Source for each turret. There's so much going on that the scene slows to an incredible crawl making changes to the pf settings damn near impossible.

Originally I was going to ask how can one use simply one type of birth script for the turrets so that instead of all firing all at once, I can kind of stagger the turret firing between the turrets without having to use 35 different Birth Scripts. I'd like to know how I could to that and, more importantly, how I can disperse 35 turrets worth of PF information so I can control easily within a few birth scripts rather than a ton... Any help would be fantastically appreciated...

charleyc
03-28-2005, 12:09 AM
To stagger the turrets, I would have birth script set to assign particles to the turret emmiter objects throughout the entire animation with a life of 1-10 frames (or for however long each turret is to fire). Adjust the rate of Birthing according to how often all the turrets fire. Have these locked to the emitter and use a Spawn operator to fire whenver a particle is present on the emiter (or use a script to determine when to fire.

I would think you would want a seperate PFlow for each ship (although it wouldn't be completly necessary). You could use the Split Operator to determine which side of the ship the turrets are on thus adding an element of control to the firing of the turrets (if you have PFlow Tools Box1 the Group Operators would greatly simplify this).

Attached is a scene demonstrating this.

R7 format


Also, you may find this helpful...or not. It is my first video tut, so the quality is not great...also it requires the latest Divx.
www.charleycarlat.com/Tutorials/Tut_GunFireatTarget.zip (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tutorials/Tut_GunFireatTarget.zip)
4.39 MB

Ian Jones
03-29-2005, 05:55 AM
Hi, I dloaded BetterWind *.dlm and placed it in my c:\3dsmax7\plugins\ and \stdplugins too but it doesn't show up anywhere? I assume it's meant to be in space warps > forces... next to the standard wind but it's nowhere to be found? what have I done wrong?

jlelievre
03-29-2005, 06:21 AM
Worked for me without any hitches... Just downloaded it, copied it, restarted max and it showed up in the Space Warps panel.

Here's a little test I was fussing around with last night. I can't wait until Pflow gets true dynamic particle interaction so your instanced pieces don't fall through your groundplane. :D

http://www.intrinsia.net/work/frag.jpg

You can view the animation here (http://www.intrinsia.net/work/frag.mov).

monkeydonut
03-29-2005, 11:13 AM
Edit: Computer hijacked

That is kickass joel.

g8ff
03-29-2005, 04:23 PM
Looks cool Joel. I was working on something similar a while back for a penetrator style warhead. Nice work.

_Geoff

loran
03-29-2005, 04:28 PM
nice work Intrinsia, Could u show us your PF view? Your chunks bounce are so cool

jlelievre
03-29-2005, 05:08 PM
Thanks for the comments everyone! Instead of posting the flow here's the file. It uses the Orbaz freebie "stop" operator but everything aside from that uses standard operators.

Frags (http://www.intrinsia.net/work/fragment.zip)

hope you enjoy!

g8ff
03-29-2005, 06:28 PM
Yah,
All you need now is some mesh-based collision and it'll be all set. I know PFlow doesn't that yet...but my fingers are crossed.

Cool stuff.

SoLiTuDe
03-30-2005, 12:46 AM
file crashes for me when I open... oh well... cool stuff though! Lots o possibilities with that

jlelievre
03-30-2005, 12:55 AM
The file crashes for you? I should have stated that it was done with Max 7. (don't know if that's the cause...) Let me know if you are using 7; sometimes .zip files get corrupt when I upload them to my server.

charleyc
03-30-2005, 03:25 AM
I have 7 and the file opened fine for me....

amckay
03-31-2005, 05:19 AM
Dammmn... you guys chewed through that quick... allanmckay.com's been up no more than a week and it's gone through it's 10gb limit.... wow.

I'll try and up the limit a little more, although don't think this'll hold once I put up more vid tuts... anyone got any ideas? Thinking of running cleaner on all of them to see if I can get them smaller (whole site is about 150mb so not that big).

Might hit Snoswell up for a favour or something : )

treed
03-31-2005, 05:28 AM
Allan, I'll let you use some of my webspace I have. I have that 3dluvr account, but I could probabably host a lot of stuff that you have. PM or Email me, and we'll talk more. :)

jlelievre
03-31-2005, 06:06 AM
Yeah Allan, would be more than happy to help you out. I got 100gb/month with my service; or you may just want to get a bigger account. 10gb in a week is pretty ludacris if you ask me. :twisted:

charleyc
03-31-2005, 06:19 AM
Allan, I imagine you will find many who would be willing to help you out. It isn't like you haven't done more than your fair share helping out the comunity.

If you need any help, I have plenty of space and supposed unlimited bandwidth (I haven't read the fine print). If there is anything I can do, PM me.

loran
03-31-2005, 07:30 AM
Allan, If you want me to make the cook or wash the dish ask me!!

amckay
04-01-2005, 06:59 AM
Thanks guys! Cool, Intrinsia or charleyc mind if you hook me up? It's kind of insane, up until now I haven't had to pay for it, then I went through the whole dilemma of paying for it for 3 months without it working, finally get it working and it lasts a week before it gets hammerred : )

charleyc
04-01-2005, 07:08 AM
Allan, check you PM

jlelievre
04-01-2005, 10:44 AM
Hey Allan; no problem, just shoot me an email with what you need hosted and I'll get right on it.

GumTree
04-01-2005, 11:50 AM
Hello All,

This is my first post here and I must say I am very impressed with how knowledgeable people don't hesitate to help not only eachother but also the not so knowledgeable. The amount of information in this thread is such that most of my google queries on pflow ended up in different places in this thread.

Now to something that I couldn't find out yet: Is it possible in pflow to have circular references ? That would mean that particles move from event 1 to event 2 but then possibly also back to event 1 ? Max (v6 for me) doesn't seem to let me do this.
Of course I can work around this by just copying the events several times and using instanced scripts and tests etc. but that doesn't really feel right.

I am looking for this as I am trying to visualize a scientific simulation that concerns splashing water. The water needs to go from normal water to whitewater and back.

Thanks,

Rog.

blacknight
04-01-2005, 12:28 PM
http://www.infused-reality.net/comp/TEST.JPG
http://www.infused-reality.net/comp/TEST-PART.JPG

i been doing some little test with the vertex render script and thats what i got soo far just a little bit of problems.. first thoose letter that you cann see are not really in the scene.. i jsut hat a text extrude object as an emitter with no velocity and them used a vortex for the effect.. but the text is still thought the particle where arealy move.

the other thing is that the script for render sequence give an error on max 7 that is save() command does not work.. havent reallyu check the code .. but its more probable that i`n doing something wrong ^^

i love that script the postpo for the vertex where done with shake by the way

OlegB
04-01-2005, 04:46 PM
Now to something that I couldn't find out yet: Is it possible in pflow to have circular references ? That would mean that particles move from event 1 to event 2 but then possbibly also back to event 1 ? Max (v6 for me) doesn't seem to let me do this.

Yes, this is possible with the only restriction that the event, that are particles coming into, should not have a Birth-type operator. In your case both the event 1 and event 2 should not have a Birth operator.

Also, there is another source of PFlow information on the web - http://www.orbaz.com/forum

Thanks,
Oleg B.

tkuehnl
04-01-2005, 07:05 PM
Here's something kinda interesting I was messing around with the other day in PFlow...

www.rapid-td.com/video/pintesta.mov
www.rapid-td.com/video/pintestb.mov (http://www.rapid-td.com/video/pintestb.mov)

I wrote my own collision code in a script operator, and some other junk to come up with a pinboard system...

-Todd Kuehnl
Rapid-TD

jlelievre
04-01-2005, 07:13 PM
It would seem that your links are dead. :sad:

tkuehnl
04-01-2005, 07:23 PM
Ack, sorry.. here ya go:

www.rapid-td.com/video/pintesta.mov
www.rapid-td.com/video/pintestb.mov

-Todd

jlelievre
04-01-2005, 08:15 PM
Wow! Those are really cool! Mind posting a screenshot of your flow?

c0rtex
04-01-2005, 09:38 PM
Hey guys.. I made this scene and I was wondering how I could render the particles and not the sphere?
If anyone could edit my file and manipulate it so it can render that would be great :D
http://members.optusnet.com.au/c0rtex/pflow.rar

Also if it isn't hard to do, could I please get an explenation? Thanks!!

PexElroy
04-01-2005, 09:43 PM
tkuehnl > These are nice. Might you be willing to share the pintest file/flow (as asked) and your script? :thumbsup:

c0rtex > Did you try to select the geometric sphere in your scene and then picking 'Properties' on it and test if unchecking 'Renderable' helps? I'd avoid using a 100% transparent material, 'cause that might increase render times.

tkuehnl
04-01-2005, 09:53 PM
Sure, I'll clean it up a bit and put it up later tonight.

Thanks,

Todd Kuehnl
Rapid-TD

c0rtex
04-01-2005, 11:47 PM
Yes I did try setting the sphere as unrenderable.. but I can't even get the particles to render.. :( sorry

tkuehnl
04-02-2005, 12:09 AM
Do what was mentioned and right-click on your sphere and uncheck renderable... Then in your flow, add a shape or shape facing operator to your PF Source 01 Node...

Good luck,

Todd Kuehnl
Rapid-TD

c0rtex
04-02-2005, 02:01 AM
Do what was mentioned and right-click on your sphere and uncheck renderable... Then in your flow, add a shape or shape facing operator to your PF Source 01 Node...

Good luck,

Todd Kuehnl
Rapid-TD

Thanks for that! I figured it out :)

c0rtex
04-02-2005, 02:07 AM
P.S
What sort of operator would I have to add so I am able to choose my material that I wan't on the particles?

ace4016
04-02-2005, 02:13 AM
P.S
What sort of operator would I have to add so I am able to choose my material that I wan't on the particles?

I would think one of the material operators under operator event sub-selection; but I'm not sure, haven't working with particles in so long.

c0rtex
04-02-2005, 02:41 AM
I just added a material dynamic in the PF source.. works fine :) thanks guys..

lol I made this scene so long ago that I have forgotten how I made it.. I'm trying to get another object do disperse, not the sphere that it is currently doing! I'll see what I can do

amckay
04-03-2005, 11:49 PM
Gumtree, I haven't read all the posts post-yours yet, although as long as your birth operator isn't in the same event, you can get your particles to loop around from one event to another, recycling those events etc.

I've got a video tutorial or two that do this on www.allanmckay.com, just as a simple example at least. But for the main part 'yes' you can.

-Allan

amckay
04-04-2005, 12:05 AM
Hey Todd, cool flow! How fast is it to calculate using pflow script? (Shudder)

During the early alphas of pflow I built a bunch of image based pin cussion tests, although it was rediculously slow. One of my mates at Dreamworks wrote a cool mel script that did image driven pins in almost realtime, it was very cool. At the time one of the max guys had written one in max for a job that was object based like yours, but rather collision based it relied on z-rays to work out the depth of each object in the scene, sims would take about 3 days to do... and that wasn't many pins either : )

c0rtex
04-04-2005, 02:38 AM
hey amckay.. maybe you can help me here.. I just want to render some geometry using only dots.. maybe you can use particles? I'm not sure.. but anyway, I want to render with dots but still retain the 3d look of the object
Like less dots where there is more light and lots of dots in the shadows.. I hope you can understand

thanks

c0rtex
04-04-2005, 02:46 AM
I made an image in photoshop to represent what I'm trying to make.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/hollikins/gifffff.gif

http://members.optusnet.com.au/gifffff.gif

amckay
04-04-2005, 03:09 AM
Okay so you want to have particles where there aren't many lights?
By nature in pflow it's going to be hard to get particles to physically emit from areas where there aren't much light.

You can try 3 quick things.

Physical process

Sphere's/collisions or groups (pflow tools) so sit in that area and tell those particles to die if they're in that area, and basically keep that bounding geometry the same as where your lights are.

Visual Process

If you wanted to just tell your particles not to be very visible in the area that there are lights, you can

A) Use a falloff shader and set it to be based on shadow/light, make the shader a blend between a normal material or a matte/shadow material.

B) Use lights that have a negative multiplier and place them in the area where the lights are, and render two passes, one's the normal diffuse pass, the other is with 100% self illuminated white and black materials and treat that pass as a luminence pass

I can point out about seven other ways to do this.
That's IF what you're asking is to render particles in the shadow areas and not the illuminated areas.

In terms of duts, why not small cubes, spheres or facing particles for the dots? And just plenty of them? Else can you reexplain if that doesn't cover it.

c0rtex
04-04-2005, 03:23 AM
Well I filled my object with spheres.. and put a light in, but it just looks like one huge mesh, and comes out as looking like a normal shader. I want there to be less particles in bright areas and more in dark, enabling you to view it without any lights in the scene.. its very complicated I think

c0rtex
04-04-2005, 06:09 AM
B) Use lights that have a negative multiplier and place them in the area where the lights are, and render two passes, one's the normal diffuse pass, the other is with 100% self illuminated white and black materials and treat that pass as a luminence pass

Anyone able to explain that a bit more thoroughly? Sorry for being so newb

amckay
04-04-2005, 06:41 AM
you might have to render a mask pass
like render the diffuse lit pass, then render some funky other pass that you can then use to distribute what's visible and not visible in the comp later on.

Ian Jones
04-04-2005, 09:44 AM
Removed link....

loran
04-04-2005, 09:51 AM
I would make tendrils move slowly (to give a larger scale to the meteor) and upscale the noise to make perturbation more details.

ace4016
04-04-2005, 09:59 AM
I think the fire should be bigger/thicker. It looks more like flares are stuck to the meteor whiles it's spinning with the thin streams like that.

Chris Thomas
04-04-2005, 11:38 AM
hey guys, just a quuck heads up for those that have not seen the news elsewhere.

CG Academy has released DVD 5 in our Particle Flow Fundamentals series, and as the series is now complete, we have also released a 5 DVD boxed set at a 10% price reduction. You can read more about both in this thread here..

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2124589#post2124588 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2124589#post2124589)

Don't be put of by the Fundamentals part of the name, sure the series does not delve into scripted flows in any depth or feature any monster flows, but it is a very good resource for those learing PF, or for those that need a reference resource on the numerous Operators, Tests and Forces. DVDs 2, 3 and 4 in the series cover all of the Operators, Tests, Forces and Collision Spacewarps in depth with insights from the man himself Oleg Bayborodin

On DVD 5 are real world practical examples, which give some interesting examples of how to use pflow, you can see these in the links below, all are half res versions of the originals.


Particle Flow Fundamentals DVD5 - Practical Examples

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/t..._Small_Snow.mov (http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/pff_dvd5/01_Small_Snow.mov)

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/t...ork_Display.mov (http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/pff_dvd5/02_Small_Firework_Display.mov)

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/t...ll_Ant_Acid.mov (http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/pff_dvd5/03_Small_Ant_Acid.mov)

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/t...rrow_System.mov (http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/pff_dvd5/04_Small_Arrow_System.mov)

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/t...ser_Etching.mov (http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/pff_dvd5/05_Small_Laser_Etching.mov)

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/t...l_Footsteps.mov (http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/pff_dvd5/06_Small_Footsteps.mov)

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/t...orming_Text.mov (http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/pff_dvd5/07_Small_ReForming_Text.mov)

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/t...ll_Ringwave.mov (http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/pff_dvd5/08_Small_Ringwave.mov)

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/t...gre_In_Rain.mov (http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/pff_dvd5/09_Small_Ogre_In_Rain.mov)

Cheers

galagast
04-04-2005, 01:00 PM
that last one really pulled my face infront of the monitor! absolutely cool!

tkuehnl
04-04-2005, 08:08 PM
Hey Allan,

It wasn't too bad, I think it took an hour with the full pin board resolution. I figured I might extend it to support being driven by texture but have already sorta lost interest. I too did my own collision initially within a script with a whole bunch of ray casting, but in the end was able to get the same basic effect with the standard collision op.. I know it can be done with depth maps as well but I wanted something you could basically throw any other mesh at and it would depress the pins without a lot of pre-setup. I could write a maxscript or maxscript extension plug-in that could do it in real-time but wanted to try it in pflow first with standard operators.

-Todd

feldy
04-04-2005, 08:13 PM
very nice Todd. do u mind posting a pic of the flow.

Chris Thomas
04-04-2005, 08:55 PM
Galagast, do you mean the last example on DVD5 or?

Chris Thomas
www.cg-academy.net

tkuehnl
04-04-2005, 09:00 PM
Sure.. It's really very simple, you can view it here:

www.rapid-td.com/images/tkPinFlow.jpg (http://www.rapid-td.com/images/tkPinFlow.jpg)

I am basically utilizing the particleFloat to keep track of where each pin is in it's vertical translation, the collision triggers a script that starts moving the pin down at a certain speed, this script also stops the movement once a certain offset is reached. Then an age test tells the pin to start heading back up utilizing the 2nd script op, again this script also will stop the pin from rising once it reaches it's original position. Lastly, if it gets hit again it goes back down, etc.. I had a cleaner way in mind at first but could not get the collision op to work like I wanted...

Originally I wanted to just use the particleInteger ch to keep track if the pin was in collision or not, then drive the animation based on that but particles would not always branch and would fall through to the next operator even though they were in collision and should branch.. So I couldn't reliably toggle the "collision flag"... So I ended up using age tests, which work but aren't as accurate as I had wanted...

Thats when I moved into just writing my own collision in a script op, which obviously once I got to the final number of pins I was after became too slow for me to feel like messing with for a simple test and I bounced back to the Collision OP and age test method.


If anyone has any other questions just let me know...

Thanks,

Todd Kuehnl
Rapid-TD (Animation/FX/Technical Direction)
2005 Superbowl spot http://www.rapid-td.com/video/ICONS_Final.mov

amckay
04-05-2005, 02:02 AM
will start putting up some tests been doing recently etc.
been building some lava shaders, lots of fluid sims of creatures and inteligent crowds and other stuff..

this one isn't that special but just a really stuborn flux test

best to grab the latest one first, just kind of a progressive increment of avi's

again nothing that wonderful

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/turbit/

jlelievre
04-05-2005, 02:14 AM
Oh man here we go again! :P This stuff is pretty cool Allan. I hope you got that bandwidth issue figured out cause I imagine people are going to be download'n this stuff like mad. :) Those weighttest anim's are niiiiice! Keep'em coming!

amckay
04-05-2005, 02:23 AM
ah it's kinda crap to be honest
we're doing some cool tests at frantic right now for a new horror movie, like using old reyes software for breaking skin surfaces and having fluid driven creatures come out etc. plus all the stuff in flood I'm doing, but none of that I can show :\

building some cool stuff to help jesus pedrosa out for glu with lava and some other side projects (bought a DV cam, tracking software and a bucket of other stuff last week) so you can imagine I'm embarking on a lot of fun : )

Just moved into a highrise apartment overlooking sydney/opera house/harbour bridge etc. and I'm building a giant nuclear explosion in max right now... what do I do if I put the two together? : )

PS. Joel I think I shot you an email yesterday.. I think.. I can't remember anymore. But thanks again for offering the space, CharleyC's helped me out, will jump on it soon and set all of that up.

treed
04-05-2005, 02:36 AM
Yeah... that stuff is pretty shiznit man.. dang. Definetely lovin it. http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Explain how you did the spawn stuff. ;)

amckay
04-05-2005, 02:48 AM
Did it about a month ago one morning for a creature project that got turfed. I can't remember off the top of my head, I'll either post something soon or upload the scene. I think I used lock bond on a few additional objects to get a kind of particle spring controller going which drives a lot of the secondary drag.

I gotta say lock/bond does exactly everything I need it to, at blur I did a lot of tests for "In The Rough" for CG drool and stuff like that, where I was scripting a bunch of lock bond operators to all feed off of eachother with varying levels of influence, which all fed out to bones to deform CG drool models. So what you got in the end was drool that'd slide down the bears face, and if he turns his head too quickly the bottom would break off or leave the body, and when he stops moving, it'd continue to jiggle back into place etc.

There's so much you can do with some of the new PFT operators it's pretty freaking cool.

amckay
04-05-2005, 03:09 AM
Here's something a bit more interesting, some R&D for a large amount of creatures attacking multiple people (in this case just one, but has the ability to choose victims) and then leaving the body afterwards and finding a new one.
I've built another build where they crawl down the body before leaving it, rather than jumping off, although in this case I left it as is, because it also will trigger the character to die, so he'll usually be close to the ground when they jump off.

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/amckay_crowds_test01.avi

**** update:
Here's also another test too. They're about a week old.
http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/attack_fguy.mov

plat4m6
04-05-2005, 05:40 AM
hi guys.
is there such thing as Blastcode for max? or atleast some kinda script/system which will fracture objects procedurally... based on tru physics... there's this thing here
http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/255540
but i guess its too 'preset'.. i need something where i can hav more control over.. got this scene of a window which will hav an object dive thru and shatter it to pieces. it seems to be a cliche thing in most movies... was wonderin if ne ppl with that experience can help out... max, pflow, afterburn is all wat i got.

feldy
04-05-2005, 07:13 AM
HI Allan or anyone else reading do any of you have any good tourtials for scripting in pflow?

Iam used to all the operators but Id like to know some scripting to take it even further.


Jeremy Kendall

charleyc
04-05-2005, 07:16 AM
You may want to check out Bobo's PFlow Scripts herehttp://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/

Also check out the Orbaz site forum
http://www.orbaz.com/forum
there is a whole section on scripting for PFlow

galagast
04-05-2005, 08:26 AM
Galagast, do you mean the last example on DVD5 or?

Chris Thomas
www.cg-academy.net (http://www.cg-academy.net)

its the "ogre in the rain" one. i was like watching it the whooole night. heheh. very cool. :thumbsup:
I might try if I could recreate one, hehe, but if all fails, I'll grab a copy of that DVD!

tkuehnl
04-05-2005, 10:04 AM
Allan, cool R&D tests. Taking a break tonight for a bit, I thought I'd start playing around with writing my own dynamics inside pflow scripted operators, these are a bit rough since I just sorta hacked it out tonight, but kinda cool. Could probably be used for a lot of things once I refine things a bit.. There are no forces in the flow, just a position object and a couple scripted ops.

www.rapid-td.com/video/tkPFlowDyno01.mov (why the hell isn't my forces accumulator working??)
www.rapid-td.com/video/tkPFlowDyno02.mov (ah... There we go... )

Todd Kuehnl
Rapid-TD

Boa
04-05-2005, 12:11 PM
Cool moves, Todd, something like a growing and shrinking snake. Could you elaborate on the flow and the tasks your script operators perform?

Andrea

feldy
04-05-2005, 03:40 PM
Allan What are the system specs u run on?

amckay
04-05-2005, 11:52 PM
laptops a 2.4ghz p4 512mb ram
no idea what my work pc is... it's only a single proc .. ack it's only a 2.2 ghz AMD? dammn I guess I lucked out on the pc specs at work :)

maybe I'll start working on my laptop and watch dvd's on my workstation instead!

I did a new vid tut last night, though it's 200mb... ack.. will upload it soon, net costs are expensive at fox studios so don't really want to upload big ass files from work.

Todd, cool vids - is that all just trig? or are you actually building forces inside of it?

just reread your post, guess it's forces? very nice then - hope you're not deterred by how slow pflow script ops are : )
PS. You can write your own operators, they're much faster. Grant Adam and Lazslo Sebo have a lot of experience doing that kind of thing.

Chris Thomas
04-05-2005, 11:58 PM
Thanks Galagast, its good to see that non fundamentals users dig some of the examples on the DVD. I'm really looking forward to doing more advanced DVDs with maxscripting in them, thats the real fun stuff, where you push things to some extent. Of course with Olegs new tools some scripting necessity will fall by the way side, but there will allways be a need.

These pinboard examples are looking really cool. I'm doing a DVD on UV mapping/ procedural texture mapping at the momment, once thats out the way I'd like to have a try at that effect myself, looks like fun...

Chris Thomas
www.cg-academy.net (http://www.cg-academy.net)

tkuehnl
04-06-2005, 02:01 AM
Yeah, for now I'm creating my own forces and then allowing my integrator to sort it out. I will probably change it around a bit so you can just use space warps, if I can get a combined force vector for each particle. Collision should work currently using standard deflectors.

I probably will re-write it all as a set of operators, but I love maxscript for rapid prototyping, I've got entire cloth systems up and running in maxscript, then I port it all to C++. I figure if I can get it to run fast in an interpreted language such as maxscript then once I write it in C++ it will be blazing..

Currently it's not all that bad, in fact that current sim runs in real-time, I know once I push it and have say 20 tentacles flying around then it may start to chug, still since I am using an integrator designed for real-time, it should handle a bunch of masses and maintain pretty low sim time.

I got the basics of a procedural fragmentation system going today, it's analytical not detaching faces based on smoothing angle or boolean planes.. If I have the time I'm going to get it "robustified", but for now I got to get my current flock of projects out the door.

Todd Kuehnl
Rapid-TD

galagast
04-06-2005, 10:44 AM
chris, thats great to hear, there's not a lot of advanced maxscripting out there. and yup, those new pftools will really take things on a new level.

todd, those are cool stuff you're working on... im particularly looking forward to your procedural fragmentation system. hope things will go smoothly on this.

allan, i bet your laptop has hit its' limits a couple of times already, considering how particles (and pflow) eat up quite a lot of resources. those new videos are cool by the way! (looking forword to see a tutorial of those, esp the car crumbling using pflow):)

feldy
04-06-2005, 10:15 PM
Allan I thought you would have been beefer in the system specs how do you get pflow to go so smooth all the time?

emrea
04-07-2005, 09:28 PM
Hi all, i have a basic question about particle flow.

how can i key particle speed by age and can i adjust tangents of curves like slow, fast, linear, step or smooth?

I tried to key speed but it works only at birth time.I want to accelerate particles by age so i tried force operator with using gravity or wind but not very handy i need exact numerical adjustment.
I tried stop gradually operator (particle flow tools freebies) but it only slows down and stop finaly.
Anyone has any idea please?

HCompston
04-07-2005, 11:05 PM
Hi Guys


Just a quick question.

I have some instanced geometery particles which change to a different piece of geometery after colliding with a deflector. What is the best way to make the particles fade out for a few frames after the collision? I trying to avoid using a material as this would need the opacity keying and would take away from the procedural flexibilty of the system.

Any ideas would be great.

Thanks

Harry

Chris Thomas
04-07-2005, 11:22 PM
use PARTICLE AGE MAP in the opacity slot of a material to make the fade

on collision, make the particles spawn once with one particle, kill the parent, at this point use the spawn option to reset their age. Use a delete operator set to delete the new particles one the frame duration you want your fade to take place over. You can then use the particle age map to fade the particles out as each particle collides, and the flow is still prcedural you can even make the fade out period a random by varying the delete operators delete age range. ;)

Chris Thomas
www.cg-academy.net

jussing
04-08-2005, 12:20 AM
Shadows and facing particles

Hi guys - any good advice on this?

I would like to do thick volumes of water droplets, from a breaking wave, but looking a reference material their shadows on each other is essential to the finished look!

So, how to go about this?

In a waterfall effect I did once with facing particles, I rendered a different layer with larger spherical particles that received shadows, and in comp used that as a shadow pass.

But, I could only use that method because there were almost no waterfalls overlapping each other - and for those few frames where there were, there was actually an artifact, because one waterfall's sun pass overlapped what should have been the other waterfall's shadows (because the spherical stand-in objects are bigger than the facing droplets - they have to be, or there's no advantage).

So, I can't use that method for a breaking wave, where I'll have lots of splashes within one another...

Any good ideas are much appreciated! :D

Cheers,
- Jonas

amckay
04-08-2005, 05:23 AM
galagast: a few pitches I did for matrix and lord of the rings brought my laptop to it's knees but it's held pretty good ground. Frantic Films is the only place I've used it entirely 100% for production on big feature films, although in general it's my baby. Although looking to get a new one pretty soon.

Although this topic mightn't seem too interesting I've put up a tutorial on customizing your ui and speeding up workflow at http://charleycarlat.com/amckay/tuts/amckay_customUI.avi
it's quite big in sizee (180+mb) although thought it might be worth taking a look, I'm going to look into recompressing it to a smaller size. It's more to make way for a more advanced one on scripting a lot of workflow and a lot more advanced fundementals.

charleyC thanks again for the space

HCompston
04-08-2005, 01:09 PM
Hi Chris

Thanks for your supply. The only problem I can see is that we have had to leave the collision events as not resetting the particle age as this seems to effect the path following abilities of the events. Basicly we have a spline that the particle follow and hit several defelctors. Once they hit them they change shape and material but carry on down the path. I have found that the only way these particles will stay on the path is if I do not reset particle age.

Thanks

Harry

use PARTICLE AGE MAP in the opacity slot of a material to make the fade

on collision, make the particles spawn once with one particle, kill the parent, at this point use the spawn option to reset their age. Use a delete operator set to delete the new particles one the frame duration you want your fade to take place over. You can then use the particle age map to fade the particles out as each particle collides, and the flow is still prcedural you can even make the fade out period a random by varying the delete operators delete age range. ;)

Chris Thomas
www.cg-academy.net (http://www.cg-academy.net/)

Chris Thomas
04-08-2005, 01:21 PM
My guess is you are using a Find Target test to make you particles flow down the spline yes? And you are using offset by particle age so the particles do so whenever they are birthed?

Could you re-work your flow in such a way that you can use offset by event rather than by particle age, that would free up using the particle age in the way i suggested in my previous post..

HCompston
04-08-2005, 03:24 PM
Hi Chris

We are using speed by Icon to keep the particles on the path but for some reason we have had to set the particle events in the speed icons to particle age and the collision tests to not reset age or the particles would not go around the spline!

If you know a better way to make the particles stay on the path I will happily change it :) Please keep in mind that they are instance geometry, if this makes a difference.

Thanks

Harry


My guess is you are using a Find Target test to make you particles flow down the spline yes? And you are using offset by particle age so the particles do so whenever they are birthed?

Could you re-work your flow in such a way that you can use offset by event rather than by particle age, that would free up using the particle age in the way i suggested in my previous post..

emrea
04-08-2005, 03:27 PM
Hi all, i have a basic question about particle flow.

how can i key particle speed by age and can i adjust tangents of curves like slow, fast, linear, step or smooth?

I tried to key speed but it works only at birth time.I want to accelerate particles by age so i tried force operator with using gravity or wind but not very handy i need exact numerical adjustment.
I tried stop gradually operator (particle flow tools freebies) but it only slows down and stop finaly.
Anyone has any idea please?
i want to accelerate particles gradually.
0th frame speed:100 50thframe speed:50
But not step key, it is bazier key, slow down like 100,99,98,97... and at 50th frame speed:50
Any idea please???

Chris Thomas
04-08-2005, 03:30 PM
emrea, you cannot explicitly control your particles speed. You could possibly script it though..

Boa
04-09-2005, 01:28 PM
Alan, I just want to say thanks for your CustomUI Tutorial. Very,very useful!

Of course, everybody knows that max is customizable, and eyerybody has done some customizing. But your tips are really mind-opening, at least for me. E.g., I've never thought of composing a complete custom quad menu before watching your video and I've never thought of using maxscript to add space warps with preferred settings to my scene and that Bezier Float tip ...!

Some small additions to the macroscript part:
- When using file/evaluate a .mcr file is automatically saved to the UI/macroscripts directory. This way, if the customize dialog is still open, you only need to choose a different category and then came back to the "MyTools" category to see its items updated.

- You can use the long description for the tooltip. Even though the tooltip is displayed in the customizing dialog, the buttontext will be used in the quad menu.

One question out of curiosity:
What are these Particle Vertex Paint and Particle Face Creation modifiers? Are they part of the next PFlow Tools Box?

Andrea

feldy
04-09-2005, 08:19 PM
Allan you said you were rendering and doing all the production work on your lap top it takes days to render stuff out at 720x389 with afterburn i have 2 machines going rendering out the same project and its takeing forever and its only 500 frames how and the hell are u rendering at 2k res for flim on a lap top with only 512 ram. I have all your cga dvds and the turbosquid one and none of my machines run as smooth as what iam seeing you do. the particles in the viewport for me are much slower.you have anyideas on improving performace.

1 machine a amd 2200 1 gig ram xp pro sp2
the other a amd 3200 1 gig ram w2k pro... and the project iam trying to render right now is going even slower on the newer machine. Iam talking about more thn just a few minutes too the one was allmost a hour differnce in frames.

any comments would be nice

Jeremy Kendall-

FatAssasin
04-09-2005, 11:53 PM
Alan, I just want to say thanks for your CustomUI Tutorial. Very,very useful!


I'll second that! I'm really starting to use the quad menus a lot more now. One thing I was wondering, though, is where to find, and how to you create, PFlow presets? You mention it towards the end and I would think that would extremely helpful, but it's the first I've heard that you can do that and I can't find any mention of it in the User Reference.

feldy
04-10-2005, 03:38 AM
thats only with pflows tool box

amckay
04-10-2005, 10:19 PM
that vid tut I actually did on the fly so I was a bit sketchy about one or two things just in terms of script execution on stuff I haven't done in a long time.

I actually did make a mistake there, I didn't occur to me 'til afterwards that those two modifiers hadn't been released yet :) I don't think it's a bit deal though as it doesn't really show anything. Although in future I might need to keep that in mind :)

I might split it into two smaller vids or something, although the main premesis was to release something simple but then later go into a more advanced version. There's a lot of additional stuff that's useful for customizing your UI that people overlook, and in terms of scripting there's obviously bucketloads of stuff you can do.

RE: particle presets : This was one of the main features I wanted was particle presets in pflow. It allows you to do so much stuff and build up a large asset library of effects. It's very useful, I'll be doing some pflow tuts soon. I'm going to be putting together something for siggraph, stay tuned.

feldy
04-10-2005, 11:17 PM
Allan you said you were rendering and doing all the production work on your lap top it takes days to render stuff out at 720x389 with afterburn i have 2 machines going rendering out the same project and its takeing forever and its only 500 frames how and the hell are u rendering at 2k res for flim on a lap top with only 512 ram. I have all your cga dvds and the turbosquid one and none of my machines run as smooth as what iam seeing you do. the particles in the viewport for me are much slower.you have anyideas on improving performace.

SoLiTuDe
04-11-2005, 05:01 AM
heh... i know that "cache" does wonders... what vid mode do you run in though? I use directx, and it seems to run well, as long as i'm in wireframe mode (talkin with 8000 particles or so) I have an opterton 248 with a quadrofx 1100, and i'm amazed as well that your laptop does that well for ya

amckay
04-11-2005, 05:19 AM
Hi Jeremy in regards to your post. I find the heidi drivers draw particles a 'tiny' bit faster than the others. But in terms of rendering it's just a matter of messing with your step size etc.
Rendering final stuff at 2K I usually will send off to a render farm to render opposed to locally. So I rarely do any final renders on my laptop, it's more for actual production work, and in the past at Blur or Frantic I'd throw it up onto their renderfarms to output for me.

I will try and write down some notes on how to optimize and work at a faster rate soon enough. I rarely use caching as it tends to be more of a pain. Oleg I believe has announced he's writing a new cache for pflow tools soon which'll be a lot more effective.

feldy
04-11-2005, 08:04 PM
Allan also what render do you prefer when rendering out your particle passes with ab. I found final render to acutaly be faster then the scanline and also brazil and since mental ray dosent render it you cant test it. But I do end up getting out of memory errors quite a bit latley with ab. Still useing max6 havent botherthed to upgrade to 7 yet so Iam not sure if there will be a preformace increase or not.

Jonathan33
04-11-2005, 09:23 PM
Hey guys! This is an awesome thread, i'm slowly making my way through it heh.
Quick questio, i saw a tutorial on this a couple weeks ago but can't seem to find it now, it was using particle flow to make smoke coming off a spinning tire, it looked pretty good. does anyone know where i could find it?

amckay
04-11-2005, 11:03 PM
every fx artist I've ever worked with renders in scanline, unless there's some specific reason - like you have hold out mattes or objects interacting with the AB that can't be cheated, then you either render a hold out pass in the other renderer or render it in it, purely for motion blur being different in each renderer. but for the most part scanline is what everyone uses.

Final Render and Vray however do render slightly quicker, nothing that overly exciting. Mental Ray - while being a solid renderer, the bridge in max doesn't like particles too much, so you will get memory exception errors when rendering large counts of particles, and of course afterburn isn't supported by it. Brazil - is the turtle renderer of the lot, it doesn't have the motion blur capabilities that the others have, and is just dead slow - so avoid it. Blur's the only studio I've worked with that use it thoroughly, and even then the fx guys there use scanline for the fx passes.

feldy
04-12-2005, 12:08 AM
well everyone has there own render that they like. This afternoon I did switch back to scanline for my fx pass. however with motion blur i find that final render is very slow compared to brazil. and in anycase i hope i solved my memory issuse by switching back to scanline. i havent had any problems useing mattshadow to make the objects interact with ab. the only problem ive ever had with matt shadow it dosent work with mental ray but in anycase neither does ab so it solves that problem.

Chris Thomas
04-12-2005, 12:52 AM
Another take on thre recent pin board toy post ;)

http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tuts/PinBoard.mov

Chris Thomas
www.cg-academy.net

Boa
04-12-2005, 06:36 AM
Realy nice animation, Chris! Could you elaborate on the flow/script structure?

Andrea

slime
04-12-2005, 07:24 AM
This is a cool thread. I hope I can contribute to it :)

Chris Thomas
04-12-2005, 02:57 PM
Its basically a simple collision that pushes each pin down using a large 'speed' injection and then drag to slow it back down again. I tried using collisions to as it were "push" the pins down, but I found that it only took one collision failure and then the pin would stay put, and that in the end just left too many pins behind.

The pin board itself is ascripted i.e. you can change a grids tessalation values and the script will adapt the position of the pins and their scale to the right size for that new pin density. So its a no brainer to put the pin density up. In this example its an array of 60x60 pins, but its easy enough to increase it to 100x100 pins or whatever.

Now.... A really cool pin board idea I have is for a "pin ball' i.e. the same deal but with a ball of pins, now that is actually a MUCH harder thing to acheive, so I will have to do some R&D on that idea and see if anything works out.

c0rtex
04-12-2005, 07:54 PM
http://members.optusnet.com.au/c0rtex/explody.jpg

Hey, I was wondering if anyone could help me make something like those shooting fireworks like in the picture above? I couldn't really create anything similar :(

Chris Thomas
04-12-2005, 09:45 PM
Have a look at example 2 in this thead, that might be usefull to you?

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2139881#post2139881

amckay
04-12-2005, 10:35 PM
Just put this together for you... I'd do the explosion with stock footage and the sparks with pflow..


http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/Sparks_001.jpg
http://www.charleycarlat.com/amckay/tmp/Sparks_1_000.max
(using this until this month's bandwidth free's up for my site again, ack).
obviously not colour corrected, but you could easily tweak it to have more reds.

feldy
04-12-2005, 11:30 PM
thats cool. pretty easy setup

c0rtex
04-13-2005, 12:18 AM
Thanks Allan.. you make it look so easy!

wscates
04-15-2005, 02:28 AM
Here is a quick hack done with Allan's file to get more of a fireball in the center.

Straight Render (http://thecellardoorexperiment.com/will/spark/Will_Sparks_2SM.mov)

Color Corrected (http://thecellardoorexperiment.com/will/spark/Will_Sparks_2SM_CC.mov)

Max File (http://thecellardoorexperiment.com/will/spark/Will%20Sparks_2_000.zip)
To use this file you need to have PFlow Toolbox #1.

feldy
04-15-2005, 04:38 AM
I found something usefull it may have allready been discussed but when useing pflow and afterburn turn your pflow render node to none and max will not compute anyfaces and will use a lot less memory. and increase render times

amckay
04-15-2005, 07:00 AM
Ah that's interesting feldy, never thought about that. good work. Of course memory's not really the big issue with AB : )
wscates - cool! One of the main things with getting the centers to blow out is that filter colour, very much underated in the material editor. Makes transparent particles that overlap become more darker or brighter (Additive). Which can be very useful in a lot of circumstances.
PS. Am probably going to hit Canada for a few months ... so I guess I might be going to siggraph this year again, groovy. Beer anyone?

feldy
04-15-2005, 05:33 PM
yea memory isent a issue with ab but when u can reduce the face count my millions it defently helps when rendering.

even though in pflow when u dont have a shape assigend to it and you dont see it in the render it still counts the faces when rendering, this by passes the counting of the faces and reducing render times a lot.
I have a render that was taking 30 to 40 min a frame to render now its down to 11 minutes with this idea.


whats in canada Allan?

SoLiTuDe
04-16-2005, 03:54 AM
... so I guess I might be going to siggraph this year again, groovy. Beer anyone?

It's on! Whereabouts in canadia you gonna be? With frantic i'm guessing?

Omega Productions
04-16-2005, 07:31 AM
Hi all,

How do you render out a z-depth pass with Afterburn? I want to add a depth of field plugin effect in After effects. Using the scanline renderer when you set render elements nothing shows as you usually hide the pflow particles.

Thanks

Tom.

amckay
04-17-2005, 10:50 PM
Ah too early to really have said something - although I was just brainstorming on the fact I might be able to get to siggraph again this year, as I figured I'd probably be locked into something back here and not be able to make it.

Yeah, haven't agreed to anything yet, but most likely will kick on over to Frantic for a bit in Canada.

amckay
04-17-2005, 10:51 PM
Tom - to get AB to show up in a zdepth pass you have to go to your afterburn renderer and enable all the channels. You still mightn't be able to with normal zpepth elements, do you might need to then go to effects and enable a fileoutput and do a zdepth pass in there for everything. That should work.

feldy
04-18-2005, 02:09 AM
one more question how can you make ab have a mattshadow material.

Omega Productions
04-18-2005, 02:34 AM
Tom - to get AB to show up in a zdepth pass you have to go to your afterburn renderer and enable all the channels. You still mightn't be able to with normal zpepth elements, do you might need to then go to effects and enable a fileoutput and do a zdepth pass in there for everything. That should work.

Fileoutput with zdepth worked great. :) Thanks Mate

amckay
04-18-2005, 05:45 AM
AB can't in terms of if you want to render an AB exclussion pass. What you're best off doing is going to the render menu and adding render elements and adding a beauty/diffuse pass or something... and 'hopefully' (haven't tried it) it'll render another pass for the diffuse which then you could use as an alpha.

If that doesn't work I'll let you know of some other methods that'll definitely work but are a bit more work.

Cheers,

-Allan McKay
'particle ninja'

monkeydonut
04-18-2005, 09:25 AM
Tom - to get AB to show up in a zdepth pass you have to go to your afterburn renderer and enable all the channels. You still mightn't be able to with normal zpepth elements, do you might need to then go to effects and enable a fileoutput and do a zdepth pass in there for everything. That should work.

If you do this, will it work with a distributed render ?

feldy
04-18-2005, 08:30 PM
Allan i was wondering what are render times when rendering at a 2k res with ab. Also I saw that they used a lot of thinking particles and pryocluster with Blade3 I was wondering in film fx shots with max are thinking particles and pryo cluster being used more over pflow and ab. and what is the signiggent differnces between the two.

amckay
04-18-2005, 11:07 PM
charleyC what's your email address? my laptop died (I'll bring it back to life in a week or so) so I haven't got your contact details right now. Cheers mate, just PM me if you want.



feldy render times vary depending on what you're doing - ie. right now I just did a bunch of shots with steam coming out of a trains pistons from a mile away at 2K res, took about 6 seconds, whereas I'm also doing a bucketload of shots of rolling dust right at the camera which at 2K take about 40 minutes : )

It really comes down to optimizing your shots... when I was at blur - for gopher broke one of the artists was rendering dust for the truck which was taking 23 hours a frame (!!) and of course Daniel and I slapped him and tweaked maybe two sliders and it went down to about 11 minutes or something rediculous like that.

In addition - you don't always need to render at 2K res, if you haven't got any visible hard matte lines then you can get away with rendering 1K or 5## res as afterburns hardly ever that sharp and detailed that you need it to be that res, then just slightly blur it to get rid of the pixelation if there is any. It works all the time, the afterburn stuff that Alex Mcleoud did for Matrix Reloaded was all rendered at 1K for fire trails in the explosion that kills the twins.

Afterburn vs pyro - no real significant difference, pyro has a few new neat features like better viewport display, whereas afterburn has cooler things like daemons and other stuff, at least ones I have more preference to. Ideally both are cool, and now AB 3.2 is finally supported by TP (Cebas held off for years as they weren't too keen on compeition with pyro AB). So both are good these days, they're pretty much the same raymarcher technology, I like AB's interface a LOT more, but again pyro has some nice features in it too and has better TP integration.

TP for film isn't really ever going to pick up. It's a great plugin, although it's just never going to sell to the degree it needs to. So there's very very very few studios using TP in production. Scanline was one of the bigger ones, and now they're almost non exsitant anymore. The big one is Digital Dimension - and they do do some amazing things with TP, mainly cause of Jason Crosby and Mitch Gates.
Pflow's going to start making some major headway soon in terms of any areas it's lacked in, (pflow tools) Box set #1 of pflow I've pushed hard to get in all the things I thought it lacked and future box sets are just going to keep doing that.
TP in a lot of ways is more solid, although as I've had to explain and reexplain to one person in particular over the years - sure TP can do some amazing things, but so can notepad/VIM/maxscript_listener if you put them in the right hands -.

TP can pretty much do anything, it's very solid - but it won't ever go mainstream, if you want a lot of power and a wacky interface, you may as well get houdini : )

charleyc
04-19-2005, 02:10 AM
Allan, apparently you have exeeded your PM account here for mesages. Shall I send it to the e-mail you gave me earlier?

depleteD
04-19-2005, 02:17 AM
Hey Guys,
I want to drop out of my degree mill and put a portfolio together this summer.
I know allan is in the industry and I imagine a some other people are as well.
I want a VFX animation job, so like particle work, matchmoveing, comping, ect.
What do the companies look for in a 'particle' demo reel?

-Andrew

feldy
04-19-2005, 04:43 AM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2177230#post2177230http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2177230#post2177230

i have a thread about this allready.

Cryptite
04-19-2005, 04:52 AM
Any prospects on proper collision detection etc for particles in the future for PFlow like TP has???

Shamless plug for those of you interested for a pflow-powered space battle; see sig.

amckay
04-19-2005, 06:26 AM
treed was just asking that on irc..

production experience if you can get it
else live action shots is really important, basically trying to integrate cg into live action convincingly. Any scripts, rigs or fx you've done etc. I've still got some of my first ever live action tests somewhere that landed me my first vfx job, before that I was all games. I should throw them up for a laugh sometime.

CharleyC - yeah amckay@franticfilms.com else I've cleared my PM.

cryptite - I believe it's on the to do list.
I'll be releasing a DVD for siggraph which has some good examples of how to work around it for the time being with a bit of scripting.

Cheers mate!

feldy
04-19-2005, 06:40 AM
I'd really like to see some of your earlie stuff.

treed
04-19-2005, 06:41 AM
I'd really like to see some of your earlie stuff.

I second that...

Cryptite
04-19-2005, 12:42 PM
I Third that statement.

blacknight
04-19-2005, 03:53 PM
heya everyone here is a test i done with particles similar to the point render but using facing here is the test (http://www.infused-reality.net/comp/infused.mov) i used facing couse point renderer was giving mych trouble. i gonna post some more test later when i have the time

feldy
04-19-2005, 03:58 PM
Interesting what did you use to make it stay on the path.

loran
04-19-2005, 04:00 PM
ok , I test the point render vs face mapped particles and the render seems to be equal or best with face mapped. So I forget The point render until more developpement give it more interest.
Cool test. You shift the color channels in AE?

blacknight
04-19-2005, 04:06 PM
nope i used shake. what i did was use a reorder to separete channels (rnnn),(ngnn),(nnbn) and thats it them i just scale and contras each channel with its own value. and use a lookup for color correct

loran
04-19-2005, 04:10 PM
ok, What s wrong with the point render? wich script do u use?


I have make a tutorial about simple point render and enhance render in AE. visite my web site for more

blacknight
04-19-2005, 04:22 PM
check this thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2113068#post2113068) the gray text its not supose to be there. i dont know why it happens. so i tried using facing particles. i did saw your tutorial but i`n having that little problem

loran
04-19-2005, 04:51 PM
ok U use the basic point render, wich render every vertices in the scene as pixel. Your text is geometry so it was rendered.

You d better use the modified script (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/sequence_vertex_render_UI.ms) which I add an UI.This render only selcted particle system, and render seq and save images. simple to use

plat4m6
04-19-2005, 10:24 PM
Hi everyone.. was wondering for sometime if i could parse certain events to different Afterburn Effects, say for instance.. i hav particle emitter, i want 25% to be debris, the other 85% to be dust... how can i send the dust event to a dust afterburn effect in enviro box, and the debris (which comes out of a split amoutn test ) to the debris after burn effect?


Thanks in advance... i hav a feeling its something to do with daemon.. but im not exactly sure.