PDA

View Full Version : Particle Flow Discussion


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Daniel-B
11-09-2004, 05:38 PM
Loran, I'm trying to create a lava geyser that is seen in the Episode III trailer. If you look at the shot of the two guys dueling with lightsabers, you will see lava geysers in the background. THAT is the effects I am going for.

That lava river test was cool though, do you think you could post the file for that? With your permission, I would like to tweak it and use it in my composite.

loran
11-09-2004, 06:10 PM
Ok
here my quick test (it s really basic)

http://forumel.free.fr/PF/LAVA.max

Daniel-B
11-09-2004, 11:39 PM
Excellent, Loran, thank you. Has anyone attempted to do a lava geyser? And why is this thread dead all of the sudden?

Cryptite
11-10-2004, 04:34 AM
Because everyone is taken aghast by our amazing conversation...

*shrugs*

Pixel: As for asking what your trailer encompasses, I was simply wondering, I might consider helping you with the trailer; if you want help... I have some examples of space dogfighting to show (currently, some ships attacking a TF control ship outside of coruscant.)

depleteD
11-10-2004, 05:19 AM
hey ill try a lava thingy right now before i go to bed

anyone have a script that when i reveal my command panel the modifyier tab is on top by default or are there some obscure settings for that?

Cryptite
11-11-2004, 02:33 AM
Ok, this is what i've got. What'd'ya think? Hope you don't mind that I used your matte painting there Pix.... I think the smoke on the right may be a bit too dark and some of the eruption's particles seem a bit to obvious; either way. I'm going to render this out tonight and see what it's like. I imagine it will be like everything else I do, fantastic looking in stills until I render an animation and its far too fast...
http://cryptite.f2o.org/fanfilmimages/Temp/lavashoot.jpg
PS. I think this thread might have travelled off course; especially since I didn't use PFlow for this in any way... Maybe we oughta go back to your Lava Fountain post... :/

Boa
11-11-2004, 08:42 AM
For me it is perfectly ok when this thread is not only about PFlow but about all kinds of particles and dynamics.

Cryptite, I think your lava might be a bit too regular and maybe too transparent also. Isn't lava more like a very vicose fluid which is torn apart to irregular pieces during the erruption phase, and only the edges of each piece are transparent? Just my two cents ...

Andrea

Daniel-B
11-11-2004, 06:57 PM
No, I don't mind that you used my matte painting. That looks pretty good!

PexElroy
11-11-2004, 09:59 PM
Very good work all, and I too agree that this thread can cover particle concepts and other methods to do FX with PFlow or Afterburn and other fluid systems (water/smoke/fire) at times.


I've looked closely at what ILM did to create the vicious lava jets. There appears to be three components to the lava eruptions: a hot orange fluid lava system, hot fiery (Afterburn) puffs, and lava thrown up and failing. Realize that each eruption is specifically designed and then digitally created and comped to do exactly what was planned prior. I believe PFlow and glu3D/RealFlow would yield some promising results. And the lava jet in the background is unique. It is very similar to a garden hose, but shooting out lava vs. water. And the lava doesn’t evaporate fast like tiny water droplets might as gravity pulls these bits back down. Defiantly a cool FX to tactical, and will work some stuff up soon. :)

Cryptite
11-11-2004, 10:08 PM
Noticing, when i used the trailer for reference, that nearly no lava that shot out of the ground seemed to hit the ground, but rather dissipate before its course changed towards the ground, I decided to simulate this when i did my burst. I realize that in real life, most of the lava would not evaporate but would hit the ground. I originally designed myne using metaballs but since those are too rudimentary, they wound up looking terrible. A fluid-simulation system would probably be ideal for the lava itself.

As far as how my system is composed, there are currently 3 components. The main lava mass is Afterburn and evaporates when it reaches a certain height/age. The smoke and better looking fire (which you cannot really see in the screenshot), I created using Chaos's Aura. It is a wonderful plugin and I intend to use it more than AB for a better result. Finally, the bits of glowing ash is simply a standard superspray particle system with wind and drag applied...

Daniel-B
11-12-2004, 12:09 AM
Well, guys, I was FINALLY able to achieve the effect I was after. I wanted the "garden hose shot straight into the air" type lava. Here is what I came up with in 3ds max...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/PixelMagic/lavageyser.jpg

depleteD
11-12-2004, 02:40 AM
meant to post this days ago.
Ug.

I did this quickly. This would be the lava blobs. not really the spray. Its more of just a fluid motion i was focusing on.

http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/untitled%20folder/lava%20burst.mov

prolly save target as.

That spray looks dope man.

Boa
11-12-2004, 05:59 AM
depleteD, nice lava blobs. How did you make them? Did you use glue?

Your blobs, PixelMagic's spray and Cryptite gaseous type of lava combined could create that complex type of ILM-lava that PexElroy describes.

loran
11-12-2004, 09:29 AM
Ok with DepletD, blobs must be combined to the gazeous... here is my solution without blobmesh, for faster solution...
http://forumel.free.fr/PF/lava-01sor.mov
I use a first event wich send few particles up in the air, those are spawed ONCE to a next event. this create the groups of particles which I render.

hyenen
11-12-2004, 10:09 AM
someone dit made a nice looking laveburst whit glue3d take a look at it.
here is the link.

http://3daliens.com/glu3D/images/contributions/lavacontest/billgregLAVA.avi

depleteD
11-12-2004, 06:43 PM
Boa, I just used pflow and blobmesh. I can post the max file if u want. Its max 7 tho.

Hey Loran I like what u did. Can u see what it would look like if u stuck more spin on your chunks. Mine took a long time to render heh. Im not the biggest fan of blobmesh.

hyenen that glue test is pretty good. Ive heard lots about glu3d. Heard it is intergrated with pflow. To what extent is glu3d incorporated into pflow?

We seem to be makeing good progress on this lava gyser. Hopefully I can do another test to contribute more.

Is that pflow uploader still werking? I dont have a place to upload my files that is good.

hyenen
11-12-2004, 08:14 PM
hyenen that glue test is pretty good. Ive heard lots about glu3d. Heard it is intergrated with pflow. To what extent is glu3d incorporated into pflow?

well... really good, the way it works is that you create your PFlow system whit a glue3d operater in it. the glue3D operater create a catch where the Glu system can read the movement of the particles in you PFlow system.




Is that pflow uploader still werking? I dont have a place to upload my files that is good.
yea the PFlow Uploader is down.

Deetee wrote this at 3DBuzz


Yeah, had to take all the pages down due to serious abuse. I dont have the time to delete all pornographic pics and other pictures upped in the uploaders. So I have to find a better way to make a 3dsmax uploader with user/pass login etc. Will try to find a way.

FatAssasin
11-13-2004, 12:19 AM
About the lava geysers, I did something similar a little while ago when attempting make the sun. Here's the link to the movie:

http://jhaywood.com/sunAni.htm

If it seems like something that might work for you, I can post the Max scene.

depleteD
11-13-2004, 01:19 AM
That sun was pretty cool man, i would just take that wobble animation out of the texture.

Um bout tha glu3d.... so do the glu3d particle cache inherit the motion and other operators from pflow like gravity and wind turbulence?

Can i perform tests on the glu3d cache and sent to another event?

Boa
11-13-2004, 07:00 AM
We seem to be makeing good progress on this lava gyser.yes, I think so too.
I'm interested in the sources of both of you, depleteD and FatAssasin. Still thinking that a combination of theses PFlow systems will results in a convincing gyser.

depleteD, I've never worked with blobmesh. But seeing your results I'll do some tests. max7 file is ok :)

depleteD
11-13-2004, 08:11 PM
AH the schools ftp im using ios beeing lame and i cant upload to it. God the IT at my school sucks and i have no clue who to complain to. If u have a place to upload it I will upload ASAP.

I need a place to upload my lava bloby burst.
I acctually looked at the trailer and I will be doing another burst soon. Im gonna see if I can make a burst of lava on my street.

Daniel-B
11-13-2004, 09:07 PM
Excellent, I need all the help I can get with this lava burst. I need to put it into the background of this matte painting....



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/PixelMagic/duelonmustafar.jpg

Cryptite
11-13-2004, 11:09 PM
Well, this geyser seems to be coming along nicely now. I'm out of town at the moment and this computer in radio shack doesn't want to open any of the movies you guys posted so I don't know what any of your tests look like. However, judging from the responses, It seems that if we combine someone's glu3d and pflow spurt with *cough* my AURA smoke (which I have some tweaking to do on) we could get what Pix wanted.

On another note, PixelMagic, are you wanting simply a stream of lava to be visible or are you planning on showing/modeling the vent from which it shoots. Another question is what kind of spurt you want. I'm guessing the background hose one from the trailer as example. Looks good so far. Are you ripping these ep3 shots from the old sw dvd's? or what... I'm curious, for it looks quite good. Though, not that you're seeking critique's on the environment around the platform ani and obi are fighting on, but there needs to be some kind of tunnel or building entrance they're coming out of. Dunno, though... Seems to me like those are the doors/walls of a tunnel from inside the mountain. Though I have no clue. aaanyway. Getting in town around midnight tonight, i'm going to see what I can do with some more aura'ness... Until later!

Boa
11-14-2004, 05:37 AM
PixelMagic: Nice matte painting. :)

depleteD: Sent a PM regarding the upload.

Daniel-B
11-15-2004, 05:25 PM
Why does it seem that every thread I post in seems to die suddenly?

depleteD
11-16-2004, 02:12 AM
lol no worries
just stick with it and it will pick up.

Boa
11-16-2004, 03:34 PM
This is how far I came with the lava geyser using standard PFlow plus the "Stop Gradually" freebie form Oleg. It doesn't look good enough for a still, but in motion it's ok. I tried to use Aura for the thicker chunks in the center, but I couldn't get it to look like lava. So I sticked with PFlow. Maybe someone else manages a nice combo?

Still: http://www.bitfresh.com/info/lava2.jpg
Animation (Quicktime, 3.8 MB): http://www.bitfresh.com/info/lava2.zip
Max7 file: http://www.bitfresh.com/info/lava2-max7.zip

Tip: if you use the max file: Some events of the second flow are set to Object Motion Blur. If you want to speed up the render set them to Image Motion Blur.

Andrea

Cryptite
11-16-2004, 04:16 PM
I have a great still from a completely aura (plus the ashes) fountain. the smoke, currently, looks like that of a nuke, but I can tweak that. Its taking forever to solve though, and for some reason, aura crashes after solving for so long when I leave it on for a night... Hmm. I'll post up a screenie soon.

loran
11-16-2004, 04:31 PM
http://forumel.free.fr/PF/lava-fountain02.mov

refined systeme I show earlier in this lava thread...
to be completed with enhanced materials and dense smoke
interested or not ?

Daniel-B
11-16-2004, 10:01 PM
Hey, I wonder if anyone can find a way to use this for creating a lava fountain...

http://student.dcu.ie/~harrisl3/yifm/firetut.html

Cryptite
11-16-2004, 10:35 PM
Here's the latest frame of my version. Completely AURA plus simple ash particles.
Problems are that the smoke is essentially far too dense... And I haven't yet rendered out, nor finished solving the sequence...
http://cryptite.f2o.org/fanfilmimages/Temp/lavashoot2.jpg

Daniel-B
11-16-2004, 11:51 PM
That looks good, but it just looks like a fire. The thing about lava fountains is that they are made up of particles, not gaseous material. Thereforce, it should look more like a water splash than fire. If that makes sense. Lava fountains are little pieces of molten rock that are liquified.

Boa
11-17-2004, 06:18 AM
Loran: Nice lava fountain. I like the eruptive nature of the particle motion. Could you post your source file?

PixelMagic: I'm not sure whether the lava on the right side is a stream or a geysir. If it is a stream you could model one, animate it with some noise and put an animated shader on it. Allan did a tutorial on lava shaders: http://www.3dluvr.com/content/article/81

Daniel-B
11-17-2004, 06:46 PM
Loran, your lava animation is EXCELLENT. Would you mind me using your Max file? If not, could you please post it? I'm very impressed.

Hey guys, I was finally able to get the lava to look EXACTLY like I wanted. All done with Particle Flow Check it out...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/PixelMagic/mustafarmattepainting02.jpg

thrasherstudios
11-17-2004, 09:06 PM
pixelmagic

that looks really awesome...think you pretty much nailed it...

one thing I would add would be alot more particles and also some thicker pieces of lava, semi-hard fragments, maybe using blob mesh and a lava shader... otherwise it lookin great

DrainLife
11-17-2004, 10:18 PM
PixelMagic it's truly amazing :buttrock:
Can you share some tips? lol :love:
I was thinking "oh, he post a reference image for showing the effect he would like to make"... then i read your post.... aand.... :eek: !!! It's not a photo but your render !
argh lol
Good job, nothing else :thumbsup:

*sorry for my english* :sad:

jussing
11-17-2004, 10:41 PM
Yup, that looks very cool, PixelKramer.

Did you use a noise modifyer on the emitter mesh to create the "pattern" in the flow?

Does it move? :D

Cheers,
- Jonas

Daniel-B
11-17-2004, 11:13 PM
The effect was actually quite simple to create once I figured it out.(isn't everything?)

Here is what I did.

I used Pflow to create a column of particles shooting straight up. Then I applied a gravity space warp of with a strenght of 0.1.

Then I created a wind space warp above the flow and to the left. Then I set the turbulence to 0.2 Frequency to 2, and scale to 0.1

Then applied a Particle Age material that goes from yellow to orange and finally to red.

And yes, it does move. This is a still, but it is a still from an animation.

ArtiZta
11-18-2004, 04:15 AM
Veryyy... niiiceee :thumbsup:
maybe reduce just a little bit the turbulance of the wind but I haven't seen it moving so that also might not be needed..
can you post the animated clip??..

anyway great job man! :)

PexElroy
11-18-2004, 05:07 AM
Yeah great work PixelMagic, please post your animations and the max file! :) The goal to almost all VFX is motion, detail, and selling the illusion.

loran
11-18-2004, 08:57 AM
here is my file. It s just the basis for a developpement but I think the motion is realistic...
enjoy

http://forumel.free.fr/PF/lava-fountain02.max
http://forumel.free.fr/PF/lava-fountain02.mov

PixelMagic, I hope you will share at least a making-off of your scene when finished :]

Daniel-B
11-18-2004, 02:42 PM
Would you guys like me to write a tutorial on how I did the lava at some point?

loran
11-18-2004, 05:22 PM
we would like to see your animation first of all :)

jussing
11-18-2004, 05:42 PM
Would you guys like me to write a tutorial on how I did the lava at some point? Yeeeeeea! :D Please.

Cheers,
- Jonas

ArtiZta
11-19-2004, 03:00 AM
Would you guys like me to write a tutorial on how I did the lava at some point?
Sure I would :)
So nice of you men, I'll be waiting to see it and of course the final animation you did.

cheers

depleteD
11-20-2004, 03:28 AM
Hey guys, I just did a lil demo of the paint particle tool in box set 1, just to see what its about
Im really really impressed with it. I would have to say its about as powerful as paintfx
ANyone have a place i can upload to? I cant uplaod anywhere :( my connection to the school is screwed.

Im doing alot of werk with pflow... just tests but i would like to share what im doing.

OlegB
11-20-2004, 03:43 AM
Hi depleteD,

Can you send it to my address oleg-at-orbaz-com? I'll upload it at the orbaz forum gallery, if you do not mind.

Thanks,
Oleg B.

c0rtex
11-21-2004, 06:49 AM
hey does anyone have a lava material I can use? I have made my lava flow but I just need the material :P

Thanks :)

PS. How do you add a material to a particle flow thingy?

OlegB
11-21-2004, 12:41 PM
>How do you add a material to a particle flow thingy?<

Material operators (Static, Dynamic, or Frequency).

ArtiZta
11-22-2004, 03:27 AM
There's a nice lava looking material effect you can make with noice procedural texture, althought I'm having difficulties applying it to a blob mesh type objects. it doesn't move with the flow.

depleteD
11-22-2004, 06:17 AM
Yo Oleg, if u really need pflow tools examples i will spend some time on them and make them look good.

I want to get good at Camera Mapping So I think I will do some half assed effects shots.
SOon as i get a good chrome ball i will start. I want to master all tha tis pflow so this will be good practise.

Im at a shitty school right now, so me and a friend spend lots of time learning on our own.
One effect shot that we are definatley gonna do is blow up our school. Were gonna start that soon as we can download the demo of pflow tools 2. :D

oleg your email oleg@orbaz.com?
is that a place where u can host my files for others to see.
Right now i have a weak procedural cracking system, grass growing by paint, initial state of a galaxy that i learned from Alex Alverez. More to come!

OlegB
11-22-2004, 12:53 PM
>is that a place where u can host my files for others to see.<

Yes, I can host Particle Flow (and Tools) animations at the Orbaz web site. Send it to gallery-at-orbaz-com.

Thanks,
Oleg B.

loran
11-22-2004, 01:15 PM
Oleg, why doing pflow tools at this huge cost?? Do you sell many licenses?

OlegB
11-22-2004, 01:30 PM
>why doing pflow tools<

I LOVE particles :)

Thanks,
Oleg B.

loran
11-22-2004, 01:47 PM
sorry for my bad english :) I mean Why PFtools is so expensive??

OlegB
11-22-2004, 02:22 PM
>Why PFtools is so expensive?<

Hmm, given the overall plug-in market, it is not considered as "expensive". For example, according to the http://www.3dworldmag.com (http://%3Ca%20href=) 3D World magazine http://www.orbaz.com/forumData/reviews/TDW59particle.pdf, it is cited as Affordable with Value for Money grade as off 9 out 10. What price range for 3dsmax plug-ins (with 100+ pages of documentation and tutorials) do you consider as not expensive?

Thanks,
Oleg B.

loran
11-22-2004, 02:29 PM
ok, ok... I 'll switch to Blender <:]
More seriously, Is there any way to win Pftools? any challenge? fight with a chicken or a duel with a worm... please...

OlegB
11-22-2004, 02:33 PM
We did not run any contest promotions yet but that might change in the future. Thanks for the suggestion.

Oleg B.

jussing
11-22-2004, 02:56 PM
We did not run any contest promotions yet but that might change in the future. Thanks for the suggestion. If you do, specifically remember the fight with a chicken or duel with a worm... that sounds like it's gonna be good... :applause:

amckay
11-23-2004, 02:33 AM
hey guys - been out of action, just now getting settled back into Australia again.
Here's just a quick test I'm doing, very early stages of building up a crowd system in pflow. So will be a while before it's more functional, although right now the nav side of things is the main focus.

http://www.allanmckay.com/vids/pflow_crowd1_001.avi

anyway should get a desktop machine later today hopefully so will begin to finally start being more active again, after being semi-offline the last 3 months couped up in a hotel with nothing but my laptop :)

depleteD
11-23-2004, 10:17 AM
I would love to see a pflow contest. That would be sweet. Every one know s of the FX challenges right? I'd like to do those but I'm not really comfortable with maxs dynamic systems. I find them rather limited. Know clue how i would do a rollercoaster heh.

Nice test their Allan, is that just a pretest for getting a crowd sim with people to work in pflow?

PexElroy
11-23-2004, 10:28 AM
I like this PFlow crowd system you did Alan - how are the boxes being driven to go where they go and bank as they do? Also very cool how they stick and conform to the surface mesh. Please keep us appraised and welcome back :)

jason-slab
11-23-2004, 12:45 PM
hi guys

i'm trying to get "smoke" trail to realistically wrap and swirl around a models hand /arm the smoke over them. i just can't seem to get that fluid motion, any help?

:|

|jason

bio2000
11-23-2004, 01:08 PM
I am browsing this thread since the last 2 hours and cant find an answer to what im looking for!
I have some kind of particle setup (look pic01) and all my particles that are emitted are blue at the start! the particles are supposed to show pressure sensitivity so i want them to change color depending on an object (or map or whatever) interacting with them!! and i want it to look like the secon picture (quick photoshop manipulation)
is it in any way possible to change the color of the particles depending on where they are? i tried particle age and mapping but couldnt get the result i want!

please help !!

depleteD
11-23-2004, 01:47 PM
yo bio,

Um, get pflow box set 2 so when the particles are selected in a group they can have there material altered by another event.

Object Mapping would work also if they have to be a certain color in a certain area.


Um question for whoevre is in max 7 and afterburn.
It seems like that animation flow curves are broke, is this a bug? Anyone else running into this problem. I can animate the intensity and color shift options on the xplode daemon. I know im doing it right to and im not seeing results. Im scareing me.

HEEEEELP!

OlegB
11-23-2004, 01:52 PM
>get pflow box set 2<
Probably a typo. Should be "pflow box set 1".

Thanks,
Oleg B.

bio2000
11-23-2004, 02:21 PM
whats about this "Object Mapping" ???? is this a standard feature !?

i cannot afford to buy the pflow toolsset cause its for a client work running on a very tight budget! isn't there ANY other way to achieve the same result !?? Any Trick appreciated !

mickatt
11-23-2004, 02:36 PM
hi
I have a problem with P flow : I would like to know how the "separation" work on the position object. I would like to do a lot of little ball on a plane near each other and not ones on the others.

I hope someone can help me and understand what I mean I am very sorry for my english

depleteD
11-23-2004, 02:40 PM
Yea werd oleg, box 1, but he should get box 2 aswell. http://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

K bio try this, when u have the area where the particles would turn a diff color and have a collision object over the area. When the objects collide they should CONTINUE into an event with a dynamic material that changes their color.

That sould work. If it doesn't post the file and i will see if I can help u.

Andrew.

bio2000
11-23-2004, 02:54 PM
hey depleteD! Thanks for your help! it ALMOST does the trick! the only point would be that when it passes the collision object it "switches" instantly from one color to another! Is it in any way possible to get a more "gradient" looking thing!? Or do i have to animate something in my dynamic material ??

depleteD
11-23-2004, 03:18 PM
Man Max crashes on me again MAN! This is garbage.

ANyway...

bio try this. Make sure in the collision event restart particle age is on. When it goes into the new event u want to have a material dynamic operator. The material that goes on the material dynamic is a particle age. Maybe adjust the spiners for 0% blue 10% green 20% yellow.

Tell me how it turns out.

ANdrew.

bio2000
11-23-2004, 03:41 PM
Thanks man. It's starting to work out ;)

the thing is i have made a really complicated particle setup for my stuff (cause i wanted to try Pflow and don't know how to use it) but anyway the collision trick helped me alot! Now i have something that fades from one colour to another: (look at the pic)

The only thing is that i have to setup all the other emitters in my scene now, and check for some minor animation problems! I'll try to send you a light scene without everything not needed so you can have a look at it!!

cheers and thanks :thumbsup:

depleteD
11-23-2004, 05:55 PM
Cool man, im glad it worked out for you.


I just thought of something. ANyone know how to get an object such as blob mesh to inherit its coloration from particles?

depleteD
11-23-2004, 05:55 PM
Cool man, im glad it worked out for you. If you have enjoyed pflow, I encourage you to take part in this thread. Everyone is here to help eachother so the more people the better. :)


I just thought of something. ANyone know how to get an object such as blob mesh to inherit its coloration from particles?

bah double post.sryshttp://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

avolution
11-23-2004, 06:09 PM
use a particle age material


hey depleteD! Thanks for your help! it ALMOST does the trick! the only point would be that when it passes the collision object it "switches" instantly from one color to another! Is it in any way possible to get a more "gradient" looking thing!? Or do i have to animate something in my dynamic material ??

KaMe
11-23-2004, 06:12 PM
K bio try this, when u have the area where the particles would turn a diff color and have a collision object over the area. When the objects collide they should CONTINUE into an event with a dynamic material that changes their color. That is and interesting approach depleteD.

I was just curious if there was another way of doing something similar, here is the result:

VIDEO (http://fire.prohosting.com/kame3d/distancecolor_divx.avi)
(don't save as, just click the link)

And the maxfile is attached.

It uses a simple Script Operator to change the particle's life based on the distance from a object.

The only problem that i found is that it doesn't update during rendering time. Don't know if its a bug. So you just have to use another simple script to render the scene. This render script is inside the attached zip.

avolution
11-23-2004, 07:08 PM
i can't load the max file! is it max 7 (i have max6)
it says can not find reactor'dll


That is and interesting approach depleteD.

I was just curious if there was another way of doing something similar, here is the result:

VIDEO (http://fire.prohosting.com/kame3d/distancecolor_divx.avi)
(don't save as, just click the link)

And the maxfile is attached.

It uses a simple Script Operator to change the particle's life based on the distance from a object.

The only problem that i found is that it doesn't update during rendering time. Don't know if its a bug. So you just have to use another simple script to render the scene. This render script is inside the attached zip.

bio2000
11-24-2004, 08:31 AM
Hey depleteD you're right i should take part and give something back to the community who helped me. the thing is im not that good at pflow, so i'll share my little experiments i've made. This is just a quick test, but with the right textures and stuff i suppose it could work out for most organic looking things: if anyone wants to play with the file i can send a copy to him. just PM me!

KaMe
11-24-2004, 01:27 PM
i can't load the max file! is it max 7 (i have max6)
it says can not find reactor'dll Yeah I'm using max7 trial (only six days left :( ). Well, for those who can't open the file, here is the script used inside pflow:

on ChannelsUsed pCont do
(
pCont.useAge = true
pCont.usePosition = true
)

on Init pCont do
(

)

on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleIndex = i
pCont.particleAge = ((distance pCont.particlePosition $Box.pos) as integer)
)
)

on Release pCont do
(

)


Couldn't be more simple.

Now you just need to assign a material with a 'particle Age' map inside the diffuse slot to the particles, and add a delete operator inside the flow. This delete operator will define the 'radius' of the color. (see the attached images). Also you need to replace '$Box' with the name of and existing object in the scene.

depleteD
11-25-2004, 12:44 AM
Hey nice i luv that hedge bio. Keep up the good work.


Guys I have a question, hows good with afterburn and particle flow, im haveing tremedous trouble getting the animation flow curve of an explode daemon to register in a single event.

Any pointers?

hyenen
11-25-2004, 07:37 AM
Guys I have a question, hows good with afterburn and particle flow, im haveing tremedous trouble getting the animation flow curve of an explode daemon to register in a single event.

Any pointers?well you can use the PFlow-ABurn operater, that creats a icon as you can add to the source particles/deamons list....in the Afterburn manager, and then will Afterburn only register the movement of the particles in that event where you added the operater.

depleteD
11-25-2004, 07:47 AM
yea i use the pflow aburn operator but the explode daemon refuses to work in the event only.

THose damn afcs just wont werk.

hyenen
11-25-2004, 08:11 AM
yea i use the pflow aburn operator but the explode daemon refuses to work in the event only.

THose damn afcs just wont werk.thats wired..... okay what is your problem precisly do you whant it to be just smoke in the end?
if so you can change that by selcting your explod deamon and enable the graf (or what is called in english):) for the color key shift whit age and then raise the left point just a tiny bit.

if you still cant get it to work and if that is your problem give me your mail adress and i will send the maxfile to you.... just made a quick test on that problem you have....

oh!!:rolleyes:

Ad a delete operater (delete by age) in the same event where you have the PFlow-ABurn operater just make shure that it dont kills any of your particles befor they passes in to the next event

depleteD
11-25-2004, 10:20 PM
yea man that was the problem, it was the delete operator. Now that I added it i have no problem with my afcs

Thanks alot man

hyenen
11-25-2004, 10:43 PM
im Glad that i coul help:)

DrainLife
11-26-2004, 11:40 AM
Would you guys like me to write a tutorial on how I did the lava at some point?For sure we would :thumbsup:
thanks :applause:

Daniel-B
11-27-2004, 09:27 PM
Why has this thread died?

depleteD
11-28-2004, 12:01 AM
Man Im never gonna let this thread die. Soon as I get a place to upload iim going to post all my werk.

Daniel-B
11-28-2004, 02:22 AM
Well, it's funny, because I'll post in a thread that is full of life... and then....silence. Then I won't post for a while, and then the thread picks back up again. Then i will post a reply, and again the thread dies.

Am I that repulsive, guys? ha ha.

DarkVIP
11-28-2004, 03:24 AM
i like the idea that was posted a few days ago. Why not a particle effex wars? :)

KaMe
11-28-2004, 05:55 AM
Hey, here's a tutorial i made about pflow and scripting. Its my first pflow tut, so I don't know if its understandable. It has no sound (my english isn't the best) but there are text files so you can understand better (just pause the video).

It is a flash .swf file, 1.5Mb (1/2 the size of an avi).

LINK (http://fire.prohosting.com/kame3d/tutorials/pflow/pflowtutorial_stick.swf)
(You can see it directly inside the browser or copy the link and use a download manager)

The final anim you can see in the attached gif. Feel free to ask any questions.

i like the idea that was posted a few days ago. Why not a particle effex wars? :) That would be fun.

Well, it's funny, because I'll post in a thread that is full of life... and then....silence. Then I won't post for a while, and then the thread picks back up again. Then i will post a reply, and again the thread dies. This thread is like traffic, you never know when it might stop. But it will eventually pick up again. :thumbsup:

Cryptite
11-28-2004, 06:22 AM
It's because you smell, Pixel...

depleteD
11-28-2004, 12:01 PM
Yo, effects wars would be sweet, the are fx wars over at the compositing forum but that stuff is hard to do in max i think. Ie rollercoaster.

We could post ideas that we could make in pflow and then all post. ect. tha'd be cool.

Allan or anybody with industry xp, if u read this u should drop some suggestions of what to make in pflow. You guys know what the effects are demanded during a production. I can only think of explosions, snow, rain ect. Pretty weak.

Kame cool post, I want to get into scripting as well. I will check it out when I have time.

Yea this thread will eventually pic up, soon as more people get the box set 1 im sure.
God, can't wait for box 2. ARRRRRRRRRG! OLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEG HURRRRRY! http://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

amckay
11-29-2004, 02:32 AM
quick stupid off topic q...

I have to change domain servers for allanmckay.com soon so I need to find a new host, anyone recommend a server? CGtalk had one going at one point right? What's the process involved, I was lazy and had a mate set it up initially so now I'm a little oblivious to the process ;)

loran
11-29-2004, 08:51 AM
Cool Idea!! any suggestion? what must ne challenged? hyper technical solution or big ideas?... crowd simulation? smoke simulation?... I think smoke simulation could be simple for start... Coofee smoke!! One of my friends do that for a cofee comercial

jussing
11-29-2004, 10:20 AM
Cool Idea!! any suggestion?I'm already thinking Independence Day-style firewall moving down the street, throwing cars and people around, but I think you're right, let's start out simple! Coffee steam or cigarette smoke or something

Cheers,
- Jonas

bio2000
11-29-2004, 10:31 AM
Why not make coffee and smoke, u could use Pflow to make small bubbles (like someone just stirred (??) the coffee and the smoke is coming up!? no?)

loran
11-29-2004, 11:45 AM
yes!! Lets start the challenge!!

--------------------------------------------------------
about something different, I m currently working on a scene were some spermatozoids have to avoid meteors field (ok ok I know that sound strange :)) So I need to create a avoid behavior. After many tests with meteor attch spacewarps and other keepappart I failed to product a smooth avoidness , because of lack of anticipation. I turn to the interesting CROWD system from Character Studio and here is were I am
http://forumel.free.fr/PF/crowd2sor.mov
Anyone has an cool idea to do similar with PF? thx :)

jason-slab
11-29-2004, 01:17 PM
hi guys

i'm trying to get "smoke" trail to realistically wrap and swirl around a models hand /arm the smoke over them. i just can't seem to get that fluid motion, any help?

:|

|jason

hmm, let me paint a better picture.

ok i'm doing a project where this [long]smoke trail flows through different rooms, it has to flow smoothley(like u are trying to do loran) over the environmant. In the one scene as the smoke is flowing over a model, she moves her arm, this is where i need turbulence and swirling. What i need to do is, after a couple of frames of swirling the smoke must blend back into the main trail and continue with it.

any help/suggestions on this?

thx
|jason

mickatt
11-29-2004, 03:10 PM
hi
I have a problem with P flow : I would like to know how the "separation" work on the position object. I would like to do a lot of little ball on a plane near each other and not ones on the others.

It's very important please help me


I hope someone can help me and understand what I mean I am very sorry for my english

It's very important please help me

loran
11-29-2004, 03:57 PM
Separation just DOESN'T works <:] sorry I try to adjust your uploaded scene but I cant find no way to solve your problem. What do you really wanna do? explain in detail, maybe there is another way to do it

loran
11-29-2004, 05:27 PM
http://forumel.free.fr/PF/meteor-crowd-01sor.mov

avoid created using Crowd behavior(CS4.2). PF just use the crowd elements to emit a trail.
I hope in a futur 3dsmax evolution the ability to use behavior Inside PF !!

jussing
11-29-2004, 10:06 PM
Wow Loran, that is awesome.

But I just can't take you seriously with that avatar! :D

depleteD
11-29-2004, 10:57 PM
That is killer loran. Good work. And good idea on the pflow behaviors im gonna suggest that over at orbaz.

Im tottaly down with createing fx wars
coffee is an excellent start
lets start out simple.

depleteD
11-30-2004, 01:17 AM
anyone have tips for smoothing out afterburn smoke? mine is kinda bumpy. also how do i get motion blur on afterburn?

Daniel-B
11-30-2004, 01:25 AM
Yeah, I've head trouble getting motion blur to work with the AfterBurn demo as well.

depleteD
11-30-2004, 01:40 AM
does anyone have a ftp i can upload to?

treed
11-30-2004, 03:39 AM
anyone have tips for smoothing out afterburn smoke? mine is kinda bumpy. also how do i get motion blur on afterburn?
Just render out the smoke animation and then do the mblur in post like in Combustion, AE etc.

depleteD
11-30-2004, 04:28 AM
thx treed that helped alot,
cept i ran in to a couple bumps
I use digital Fusion 4 and it didnt have a motion blur unfortunatley, it might but i havent found the settings to activate it. I think I need a plugin perhaps.

Furthermore, I am going to have to figure out render pass control in brazil, I use a directional blur and it worked extremly well. I just have to figure out how brazil works in its wonky passes so i can render out aburn seperatly.

If anyone knows how to get mblur to werk in df 4 plz tell meh.

Boa
11-30-2004, 06:29 AM
hmm, let me paint a better picture.

ok i'm doing a project where this [long]smoke trail flows through different rooms, it has to flow smoothley(like u are trying to do loran) over the environmant. In the one scene as the smoke is flowing over a model, she moves her arm, this is where i need turbulence and swirling. What i need to do is, after a couple of frames of swirling the smoke must blend back into the main trail and continue with it.

any help/suggestions on this?

thx
|jason If you have to do this without PFlow Tools you might want to setup two flows, one for the main trail, one for the arm move, and comp them later.
For the arm move part you could try the use an non-renderable duplicate of the arm with an animated grayscale gradient map as Position object. Check "inherit Emitter Movement", "Animated Shape" and "Density by material". Add a Speed by Surface set to "Control Speed Continously" and to "Parallel to Surface" and check "Animated Shape". This way the particles will move up the arm. A deflector positioned at the shoulder could be used to delete the particles so that they won't move back/down the arm.

Hope that helps,
Andrea

Boa
11-30-2004, 06:45 AM
KaMe: Thank you very much for your Scripting tutorial. It is very much appreciated!

Loran: Cool animation! The particle trail adds a nice follow-surface effect to the avoiding behaviour .

Andrea

depleteD
11-30-2004, 07:16 AM
Found a place to post.
Here is what i did for to coffee challenge, its not much but i did it in 15 mins.
Again, if anyone can tell me how to do proper mblur in df it would be great, this is a faked directional blur.

http://www3.telus.net/cpaulson/coffee%20steam%20comp.mov

right click and save i assume

jason-slab
11-30-2004, 07:58 AM
Boa: thx for the input, i'll try that today!

|jason

jason-slab
11-30-2004, 08:01 AM
http://forumel.free.fr/PF/meteor-crowd-01sor.mov

avoid created using Crowd behavior(CS4.2). PF just use the crowd elements to emit a trail.
I hope in a futur 3dsmax evolution the ability to use behavior Inside PF !!
great stuff loran, is it easy to setup? i've never used cs crowd behaviour

|jason

loran
11-30-2004, 08:58 AM
COFFE WAR
here is my cofee cup
http://forumel.free.fr/PF/thinsmoke-cofeeCup02.mov
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CROWD/PF
about CS Crowd system: Crowd is quite simple to set up, but you have to do script to enhance the possibilities (I don't use script in my avoid scene).
create a crowd and a delegate helper, add behavior (a seek for motion and an avoid)
selecting the crowd helper,in the modifier use Scatter to multiply and position your delegates
give seek behavior a target, give avoid behavior objetcs to avoid (delegates include,so they keep appart). in the behavior assignement keep delagates in a team and relie team and behaviors. Solve to calculate the simulation. use Object/delegate association button to link shapes to the delegates (delegates ar not seen as object in PF until something is linked to its). In PF, use Object postion to emitt parts and select the objects attached to delegates. thats all :]
If some of yours are interested I ll do a tutorial with pictures.

What s about my avatar??? Spongebob is serious...and he turned 3d by Blur studio

jason-slab
11-30-2004, 09:06 AM
sweet thx loran!!
\j

Daniel-B
11-30-2004, 02:26 PM
So I suppose no one is interested in helping me create a particle system for a 300 foot high column of red hot mag-ma? Can someone please throw me a freggin' bone, here?



http://www.minid.net/archivos/dr-evil.jpg

depleteD
11-30-2004, 07:53 PM
nice coffee steam loran, u use afterburn or just sprites?

Hey pixel, i'll give u a hand. Are u useing a fluid simulator? OR u just gonna try and get it with pflow?

Daniel-B
11-30-2004, 11:42 PM
Well, I'm just going to use Pflow. I see no reason to bring a fluid simulator in when the scale of the lava column will be huge. Probably too much for a fluid simulator to handle anyway. It needs to look like a giant water "splash" I'm talking 300 ft. high. But of course it's lava, not water.

dgill
12-01-2004, 04:30 AM
Hi,

This is driving me nuts. I am doing a traffic simulation with particle flow using shape instance and pointing it to a group of cars. I have three lanes of traffic, so I use three emitters.

This works great in the viewport, and when I do Animate/Make Preview. Motion is perfect - looks exactly the way I want it.

Then, when I try to render, each emitter spits out a single car - which correctly follow their motion paths. But no further cars are emitted. Any ideas?

loran
12-01-2004, 08:55 AM
dgill, upload your scene so we can take a look.

depleteD, no afterburn, just sprites :)

dgill
12-01-2004, 08:17 PM
Unfortunately, I don't post here often enough to be allowed to upload files.


FWIW, I replicated the problem with only a few standard objects:

1) Create 8 objects (sphere, box, etc) and group them

2) Create 3 emitters and rotate them 90 degrees

3) Go into particle view, detach emmiters 2 and 3 from event 1

4) copy Event 1 to Events 2 and 3. Set the birth rate very low in each event. Attach the emmiters to their own events. (I need to do this so that I can set the random seed separately. Otherwise, the 3 emitters always emit the same object simultaneously. I want different random objects. Remember, in the real animation, I am doing traffic - so it looks improper if the same type of cars are always alongside each other)

5) Replace "shape" with "Shape instance" in each event. Select the group from (1), select "Group members" and set random seed to different values for each

(I don't know if what follows is part of the problem or not, but I include it here because this is what I am trying to do)

6) Create a line spline with many twists and turns. Use Normalize Spline to smooth it out

7) Replace "Speed" in one of the emitters with "Speed by Icon". Assign the speed icon a path contraint of the spline. Use "Speed space follow" in rotation for this emitter.

If i do this, I see each of the emitters sending out random objects for the life of the animation in the viewport and in Animation/Make Preview. However, when I render - each emitter emits one object, then stops. The objects continue on their trajectory, but no further objects are emitted.

Ideas?

KaMe
12-01-2004, 08:41 PM
dgill, this might not solve the problem but might be a workaround: Add a cache operator, update it, set it to 'Viewport/Render' and render your scene.

Daniel-B
12-02-2004, 02:54 AM
Hey guys. I've just tried and tried to create this effect on my own, and I can't. I need to create somethign that looks like this...

http://wrgis.wr.usgs.gov/dds/dds-80/images/JPG/large_screen/RIFT_018.jpg

or this...

http://wrgis.wr.usgs.gov/dds/dds-80/images/JPG/large_screen/RIFT_023.jpg

or this...

http://wrgis.wr.usgs.gov/dds/dds-80/images/JPG/large_screen/RIFT_024.jpg

or this...

http://wrgis.wr.usgs.gov/dds/dds-80/images/JPG/large_screen/RIFT_022.jpg

So gentlemen, any suggestions for particle motion and materials would be great.

DarkVIP
12-02-2004, 03:14 AM
I am not all that great with pflow but Ill share my thoughts anyways :).

How about creating the crusty lava base and then select that as the deflector and then put the particles underneith it, when the (lava crust base) cracks apart you could push the particles for the lava geiser upwards forcing the lava out. I think it might turn out nicely and wouldnt be that difficult to set up as well.

Just an idea aanyways.

Daniel-B
12-02-2004, 03:39 AM
That's a nice idea. I'll consider that.

Oh, and another problem, when I create the lava bursts that I have so far, they are too uniform. In other words, the particles tend to form a perfect cylinder shape when I use the 200,000 particles required for proper density.

I need to break up the particles, but still keep them in a geyser shape. You know what I mean?

DarkVIP
12-02-2004, 03:58 AM
what are you using for your particles?
parray, pflow,?

dgill
12-02-2004, 03:59 AM
Hi KaMe,

Tried adding a cache. Still no luck. :-(

Daniel-B
12-02-2004, 04:46 AM
I'm using Pflow.

avolution
12-02-2004, 04:53 AM
Why not have a dozen position objects grouped in a circular array
tight so all overlap

then really random the speed and speed variation
start with fairly low spew rates (say 100 per emitter)
use spawn by distance with a slow delete by particle age
have high random spawn percents such as scale variation up to 100%
use a gradient particle age wih three different smokes for age #1, #2, #3
*a large white yellow cloud for age #1, yellow red medium size map for #2
and grey for age #3 which will work as smoke

set a dozen winds with falloff with noise float
and noise float for the turbulance (keep lower than say .5)
the noise float will allow random negative (pull) and positive (push)
use noise controller for scale by particle age
use shape facing for camera view

now i'm not on max but i think these suggestions might help





That's a nice idea. I'll consider that.

Oh, and another problem, when I create the lava bursts that I have so far, they are too uniform. In other words, the particles tend to form a perfect cylinder shape when I use the 200,000 particles required for proper density.

I need to break up the particles, but still keep them in a geyser shape. You know what I mean?

DarkVIP
12-02-2004, 06:37 AM
I have finally had time to work on a small coffee steam scene, I am not all that great on particles and adding material to them but i did one anyways.
I wasnt able to upload the animation anywhere yet, the animation looks better with the steam because of the particle movement.
What do u all think?

Boa
12-02-2004, 07:53 AM
dgill, I've made a simple test scene and it works here. My setup is slightly different. If you want to look (max 7):
http://www.bitfresh.com/info/traffic%20lanes.zip

Here is a screenshot of the Particle View:
http://www.bitfresh.com/info/traffic-lane-pflow.gif

http://www.bitfresh.com/info/traffic%20lanes.jpg

dgill
12-02-2004, 10:11 PM
Boa,

Big thanks! Hadn't considered using a single PF Source with split. Haven't tried this yet, but it definitely seems like it would be the correct way. Will try it tonight...

Thanks again

Mills
12-06-2004, 01:33 PM
HI all

I wonder if some one can help me?

I think this should be easy but I can get it. http://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon11.gif
I want to make cigarette smoke go in to a shape as it blows away.


I am sure there is a easy way.
If any one has done something like this can they please point me in the right direction.

thanks

fast4ry
12-17-2004, 11:48 PM
i see the making off of the summer of all fears and other movies,and in the screen of the computers i see the shape of smoke like a balls,but when i try to use balls for make smoke dont works fine,planes seems work better.
its a problem of my shader? whats the best way for make a shader?any tutorial?

instinct-vfx
12-18-2004, 09:25 AM
using balls requires either using plugins like pyrocluster or afterburn to do true volumetrics or the use of special materials that use at least falloff maps to hide the spheres´s silouette.

Here´s a very good example to use/learn from :

http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55519

Thorsten

Howard Day
12-18-2004, 11:58 PM
Here's a question for you fellas - how do you go about growing the particles over time? say I've got a bunch of facing particles - an explosion - and instead of wanting them to just *poof* be there, I want them to grow -quickly, mind you - into full size, and then gradually grow more over each particle's individual age until they're deleted...
The script I worte to do this doesn't seem to want to work.
Any thoughts?
Thnaks.

instinct-vfx
12-19-2004, 12:47 AM
use a scale operator and set it to relative successive and animate the scale percentage...

Greets,
Thorsten

Howard Day
12-19-2004, 02:08 AM
This'll work on particles of different spawn times? Because this flow is generating a bunch of different explosions at a bunch of different times. The sulution you gave desn't seem to work. It works once, and only once.

Howard Day
12-19-2004, 02:28 AM
Got it - never mind....thanks man - just took me a bit.

Howard Day
12-22-2004, 01:12 AM
Here's another question for you folks - how would I go about adding recoil to the gun barrels that are firing these particles? I've not come up with a good way to do it, but hey, I don't know all the complexities of the system. any thoughts?

ace4016
12-22-2004, 02:22 AM
I think you would just animate the gun's recoil a frame or two after the particle leaves the chamber. I've never tried this btw.

Per
12-22-2004, 11:42 AM
Hi there.
I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this question (please forgive me if it's not), but here it goes:

I've resently started working with particle flow... and it's pretty d*** cool! I tried playing around with it, and I've got some pretty interesting results.
But when I try to make a more specific particle system, I really feel my lack of knowledge for particle flow.

Here's what I'm trying to make:
I've got this (real) film-sequence of a person sitting on the ground in a forrest. The ground is coveret with brown leaves. Suddently some of the leaves start whirling around the person... and the "tornado" start increasing in strenght.

Here's what I've made so far:
I've made a PF Source dropping some particles randomly on a plane (with a UDeflector). A Vortex starts "sucking" all the particles to the center and starts whirling them around. A Wind (force) creates a little turbulence in the particles.

Here's my problem:
Moments after the particles hit the plane, they start floating around (even though the bounce is 0). I've tried to keep 'em down with a Gravity force, but the gravity makes the particles stay on the ground level when the Vortex starts. I've tried adjusting the gravity... but it's as if I only have two options: 1- let them float or 2- keep them on the ground .
And when the Vortex starts... it "sucks" ALL the particles to the center. I want it to increase strenght gradually, so that it stats with the particles closest to the center, and when the strenght of the Vortex increases, it starts affecting the particles placed farthest away from the center.


Can you help me out? Thanks.

Btw... I've tried asking this question on other forums, but it hasn't solved my problem yet.

RazzBlade
12-23-2004, 06:44 AM
Once they have had enough of the vortex send the partials out to another event that includes the gravity and maybe some wind for turbulence. You could use the age test with a variation for this one. i.e. let them spin and flutter all they want within the vortex until they hit certain age with a variation of 10 or so, at that age send them to the next event which can bring them fluttering to rest on the ground.

Try different ages and variations, you should be able to get something worth watching ;)

theotheo
12-23-2004, 10:17 AM
Hi, i havent been around since page 20 on this thread but anyway.

Ive been playing around with digital fusion latley ,and especially its particle system, witch to has some similarities to pflow, hence the posting here :)

I got some interesting results with creating particles first, getting the motion and flow right, and then doing a complete post effect on them later, as opposed to creating the entire effect on the fly.

The reason im posting this here is , even if i used fusion`s particle system the same could be done in max, however fusions particle system is abit "dumber" but still i recon its faster then pflow.

All the post effects could be done in AE or combustion or any other compositing system.
But the particles are most point particles.


http://euqahuba.com/temp/temp/pfus_flames.jpg

and the finished animation :

http://euqahuba.com/temp/temp/ptest_flames.mpg

jussing
12-23-2004, 10:39 AM
Holy smokes (batman), that's awesome.

Do you have a seperate particle age plate, that you use for compositing, or is it all from the main render?

I'm guessing you use a lot of layer blurring, using various levels of blur for masks of yellow, orange and red, set to "add" or "screen" mode...?

Can you post the non-processed particle render, too?

Cheers,
- Jonas

theotheo
12-23-2004, 10:59 AM
Sure thing!

The only thing done is turning down the opacity of the particles during aging, the rest is post stuff.

But as you said its mostly just blurs colour correction and stuff blended in. And ive actually used the same particles and blurred them and fed them through a displacement map setup so that the particles actually displace themselves, this way you get the nice curly effect one the flames inside, and you get the "sucking" effect that happens in the middle of the flames.
edit:i also upped the particle speed 300% in the final vid.


heres the original particle render

http://euqahuba.com/temp/temp/p_test.mpg

-theo

jussing
12-23-2004, 02:00 PM
That is absolutely inspiring! :thumbsup: Thanks!!

Cheers,
- Jonas

Laserschwert
12-23-2004, 11:31 PM
Hey, Theo... any chance you could post the DigitalFusion flow-file?

theotheo
12-24-2004, 09:45 AM
http://euqahuba.com/temp/temp/ptest_flame.flw

This is not the original particles that i used in the test above, this is just a quick setup of the similiar approach, however, in m first setup i rendered the particles out to file so it would be easier to work on the post, but in this flow ive included the particle system aswell. Tho its not the same particle system it should give you a basic idea.

merry xmas and all that.

theotheo
12-24-2004, 09:46 AM
double post :)

depleteD
12-29-2004, 07:31 PM
man, i am a huge fan of digital fusion but havent touched on the particle system

i downloaded your file and was like whoa, that is dope.

question on the displace, how does the fg and bg work work on that node.
You have color corrector on foreground and defocus on background. what effect does that produce?

Howard Day
01-01-2005, 02:27 AM
Okay - Here's another random turret question for you. If the turret I'm working on has for barrels, and I want the partile prjetiles to fire out with the outer barrels first, and then the inner barrels, how would I do this? I've tried a multitude of things, and I can't figure it out. It key is that each barrel should only fire one particle at a time. Also, I's like to be able to fire off whole banks of turrets at the same time. I'd really appreciate some help on this - I'm banging my head agains the wall as I type this.

TIA!

depleteD
01-01-2005, 11:12 PM
um use 2 initial particle systems

and animate them when to fire.


Question for everyone

Whats the verdict on pyrocluster vs afterburn.

Im native to afterburn. I think it rules but it doesnt werk with mental ray
pyro does.

should i just use aburn to composite?

Howard Day
01-01-2005, 11:26 PM
That's something I tried - it doesn't work. There's no way with that system to control which barrel the shots fire out of.
They just randomly pop out or either barrel at no particular time.

I'd like the setup to fire two matching pairs of laser beams in an alternating pattern across multiple emitters. There's gotta be a way to do this.

treed
01-01-2005, 11:41 PM
depleteD, yah I'm AB native as well. I've never used Pyro before and probably never will, really no need for it. Most of the time when I use AB, I render with scanline or Brazil. The MR incompatibility doesn't concern me. Also, AB has proven itself in the industry, thats the other reason I use it. I'm not saying that Pyro isn't as good, just saying that I don't need to get it.

Harvey
01-02-2005, 01:22 PM
Howard Day: Here is a small sample file that demonstrates the affect you are after..at least I think this is what you are after. The file isn't perfect by any means (I just threw it together as a quick example) but it should give you a starting place and some new ideas on how to control things.

By the way the only thing animated in the scene is the turret and that can be changed and the particles will update automatically. Oh ya, there is only a single particle flow...no need for multiple flows for different emmiters. Let me know if you have the particle flow box tools...if you do this effect can be achieved much more cleanly.

Howard Day
01-03-2005, 07:29 AM
Thanks! unfortunately the Zip file appears to be corrupt. Does sound like exactly what I'm looking for, though!

jussing
01-03-2005, 11:07 AM
I can Unzip it fine. :shrug: I'm using Winzip.

Harvey
01-03-2005, 12:28 PM
Howard Day...if you still can't unzip the file just send me an email to charvey@franticfilms.com and I will send you the unzipped max file.

Erka2
01-03-2005, 01:12 PM
Nice example Harvey! What's will be different if you will use pflow tools box 1?

Harvey
01-04-2005, 02:50 AM
Thanks...it was just a quick example of a way to use collision test to control things other than a deflection. If I used the pflow tools I would have used lockbond and generally had more control over things is all. If you would like to see an example I can make one.

Howard Day
01-04-2005, 05:32 AM
Harvey, that works great. The only problem I'm having with it is that is spawns two particles every time it collides. I need it to only spawn one. Any help would be most appreciated.
TIA!

Harvey
01-04-2005, 06:16 AM
I can fiddle with it some tonight ... do you have Particle Flow box tools? It would make it easier.

Howard Day
01-04-2005, 07:01 AM
No, I don't. I might have access to them at work, however. I'll see what we have.

OlegB
01-04-2005, 12:18 PM
The latest update 1.06 of PFTools:Freebies has three new operators: Copy Out, Display Script and Camera Culling.

The Copy Out test is a simplified version of the Spawn test that you can use to reduce overhead in the particle system when you simply want to duplicated particles without using other Spawn settings. It simply makes one or more copies of each particle that's sent to it.

The Display Script operator is a diagnostic tool that lets you display viewport data associated with each particle. The data is generated from a script prior to Display Script in the event, and you can use multiple occurrences of Display Script in an event. For example, you can display each particle's velocity, size, and distance from a given object.

The Camera Culling can reduce the geometry load in the viewports and/or at render time by filtering out all particles not visible to the camera. The operator can be used as a group selection tool to define a group by the camera view frustum.

You can download the PFTools:Freebies update at the Orbaz web site (http://www.orbaz.com/products/particle-flow-tools-freebies.html).

Thanks,
Oleg B.

Erka2
01-04-2005, 05:34 PM
Harvey, it will be great to see some advanced use of pflow tool box 1 (I have it). Thanks!

Per
01-05-2005, 02:46 PM
Once they have had enough of the vortex send the partials out to another event that includes the gravity and maybe some wind for turbulence. You could use the age test with a variation for this one. i.e. let them spin and flutter all they want within the vortex until they hit certain age with a variation of 10 or so, at that age send them to the next event which can bring them fluttering to rest on the ground.

Try different ages and variations, you should be able to get something worth watching ;) Hi RazzBlade.
Thanks for your answer... and sorry for my late reply.

I'm not quite sure what you mean... but I'll try using the Age Test. If this works, there's a problem less to worry about. But there are still some other problems, I could need a solution to.

So if you or someone else knows what to do with my particle flow problems, please feel free to make a suggestion about how to fix them.

Thanks.



Btw... here's for you who don't know what problem I'm refering to:

Here's what I'm trying to make:
I've got this (real) film-sequence of a person sitting on the ground in a forrest. The ground is coveret with brown leaves. Suddently some of the leaves start whirling around the person... and the "tornado" start increasing in strenght.

Here's what I've made so far:
I've made a PF Source dropping some particles randomly on a plane (with a UDeflector). A Vortex starts "sucking" all the particles to the center and starts whirling them around. A Wind (force) creates a little turbulence in the particles.

Here's my problem:
Moments after the particles hit the plane, they start floating around (even though the bounce is 0). I've tried to keep 'em down with a Gravity force, but the gravity makes the particles stay on the ground level when the Vortex starts. I've tried adjusting the gravity... but it's as if I only have two options: 1- let them float or 2- keep them on the ground .
And when the Vortex starts... it "sucks" ALL the particles to the center. I want it to increase strenght gradually, so that it stats with the particles closest to the center, and when the strenght of the Vortex increases, it starts affecting the particles placed farthest away from the center.

oatz
01-05-2005, 05:38 PM
Oleg, that Script Display operator is awesome! Enough that I'm surprised its in the freebies. What's your logic for what's put into box 1 & 2 vs freebies?

Khye

OlegB
01-05-2005, 09:30 PM
>What's your logic for what's put into box 1 & 2 vs freebies?<

If it doesn't fit into a box then it's a freebie :-)

Actually, a lot of factors...

Enjoy!

Thanks,
Oleg B.

HCompston
01-06-2005, 09:00 AM
Hi All

I hope you guys can answer me a quick question. I have been putting together a little R&D to see I could get a Minigun to fire automaticaly. THis is all working OK for now. However I have attached the rig to a Dummy and Rotated the Dummy. If I rotate the dummy so the final rotation key is at the end of the active time segment it rotates and fires OK. If I move the end rotation key into the timeline the muzzle flash particles loose their alignment to the barrel as the key is passed. I have attached both the files in MAX 7 format.

Thanks

H

OlegB
01-06-2005, 12:52 PM
Attach an invisible plane to the Dummy that is perpendicular to the barrel. Use Speed By Surface operator. Use plane as the Surface Geometry.

Thanks,
Oleg B.

HCompston
01-06-2005, 03:46 PM
Oleg

Thanks for the response. I will try that later.

But why is is happening? The alignment is fine until it reaches that frame and it is also fine in the working MAX file where the same angle is achieved!!

Thanks

Harry

OlegB
01-06-2005, 04:37 PM
Sorry, I didn't look at the scene file first. You are already doing that with the Speed By Surface operator.

Just small details need to be done to achieve the effect:

a) you don't need Speed By Surface and Rotation operators in the Event01
b) you don't need Position Object operator in the MuzzleFlash event
c) Rotation operators should follow Speed By Surface operator in the event order
d) Speed value in the Speed By Surface operator in the MuzzleFlash event should be set to 0.1m
e) Z value in Rotation operator in the MuzzleFlash event should be set to 90.0
f) Copy Rotation operator from the MuzzleFlash event to Spawn Rounds event. The Rotation operator should follow the Speed By Surface operator (order in event).

That's basically it.

Thanks,
Oleg B.

HCompston
01-06-2005, 07:30 PM
OlegB

Thanks for the advice this worked well. A quick question so I can get what you did correct in my head.

Why does the Rotation event have to be after the Speed by Surface event? Is there somewhere in the reference files a list of orders by which you should use events?

Thanks

Harry

avolution
01-06-2005, 08:23 PM
To Chris Harvey in Vancouver.....

Your element explode macroscript finally allows me to create perfectly sequenced and numbered by birth text nodes to be used by birth scripts and group select and split group
in particle flow tools #1

awesome!

Harvey
01-06-2005, 09:54 PM
Markpigott - glad you found the script usefull...can't even remember where I posted it anymore. I really need to get all my scripts online.

Erka2 and Howard Day - Here is another file for the turret...this one is now useing particle Tools Box1 and the freebies (which I highly reccomend to anyone doing any kind of particle work). This particle system now only has a single particle being emmited from the cannons (instead of two) each time they fire. It also makes use of some of the new freebie tools to reduce overhead and speed up the system. Finally I also added a muzzle flash into the system for the heck of it. Oh yah...the particle flow is also fully commented so look for the little red corners and read what I wrote for a deeper explanation on things. Hope you find it useful.

avolution
01-07-2005, 01:31 AM
[QUOTE=Harvey]Markpigott - glad you found the script usefull...can't even remember where I posted it anymore. I really need to get all my scripts online.

You are welcome....One of the most handy of PF Freebies is the Camera Cull operator.

As a test i made an explosion with 100,000 particles and had it go "off camera", as I rendered
the test, I noted the render count drops from 400,000 faces (with Shape Plus Quad)
when all the particles on screen down to zero when they leave the viewport extremes...
This will be cool to set up many explosions

Erka2
01-07-2005, 12:55 PM
Thanks Harvey! It's really useful example! "muzzle flash" looks great ;)

Harvey
01-07-2005, 11:45 PM
Thanks Erka2, glad you find it useful.

Howard Day
01-09-2005, 09:05 AM
Heh - well, once again, I can't open the Zip file. No matter - I came up with a solution on my own. The system just needs to be mathematically accurate. The emitter particle needs to touch the deflector once, not twice as it would do after going in, and then back out. I just animated it so that the numbers matched up. Anyhow, I have another question for you fine folks:
Is there any way to get the image motion blur in Brazil to work with Particle Flow? Right now it seems to take only one particle's motion and use that for the entirety of the system. I can't seem to get around this. Looks fine in Scanline and Mentalray. I'd just like to use Brazil, if at all possible. :D

TIA!

ace4016
01-09-2005, 09:43 AM
Sorry i havent used brazil before but how did you get good motion blur on mentalray with particles? I've tried and it doesnt even look like motion blur is on.

Harvey
01-11-2005, 12:54 AM
Howard Day: Thats really strange that you can't open the zip files...let me know if you want me to send you the max file directly. The new example is mathematically correct as well as far more optimized (the first example was really just quickly thrown together). This new file also contains muzzle flashes and stuff. One thing to note is that the new file makes use of the Particle Flow tools...so you would need those (which anyone doing a lot of work with Particle flow should really have anyway).

HCompston
01-11-2005, 08:37 AM
Harvey

I had problems opening the ZIP file. I tried both Winzip and Winrar and got an unexpected and of archive error. I woud much appreciate if you could repost. Downloaded file size was 51.2KB is this correct? I tried several times.

H

Harvey
01-11-2005, 12:03 PM
Very strange, winzip has never given me problems before that I know of. Oh well here is the file again....this time its a direct link to the max file. Please let me know if this doesn't work.

http://www.tughan.com/~harvey/Examples/ParticleTurret_PFTbox1.max

ArtiZta
01-17-2005, 03:03 PM
Hellooo...
has anyone done anything heavy with blobmesh?....
I'm trying to make liquidy flow forming a text.. but is there any way of making the blobmesh more solid then being so much blobby?...

any suggestions guys?

plat4m6
01-19-2005, 09:33 AM
Is there any other palce to get allan mckay's quickfrag script? his site seems to be down at the moment,

thanx!

amckay
01-21-2005, 12:10 AM
sorry my domain has been down the last few weeks, I have a new host etc. just haven't changed the name servers, pain in the ass.

will get it up soon - been absent the last 3 months, took a 3 month boozing break and killed my liver back in Australia :)
But will be back on track again now.

Check out blade 3 - last project I worked on before my break

SoLiTuDe
01-23-2005, 05:24 AM
Blade 3 was awesome... way better than the second one, which story wise i didn't care much for. Otherwise the effects were killer! ...What work did you do on it? I heard the vampire's->dust effect was done with thinking particles??

depleteD
01-23-2005, 11:06 PM
yea man, blade 3 kicked so much ass.

Man Allan this thread died so hardcore since u left. :(

amckay
01-25-2005, 04:31 AM
yeah worked on all the vampire death sequences as well as the shot where blade jumps from the window of the police station, andyeah we used tp for all of the effects. since then I've worked on the warhammer cinematic at blur studios and their two new short films gopher broke and in the rough, and the call of duty stuff. now back at Frantic Films for the next few months on a couple of projects - good to be back, although I miss my holiday already ;)

loran
01-25-2005, 08:40 AM
hey people! do see the new FX challenge at http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=203990

This mean lot of particle works!!

SoLiTuDe
01-25-2005, 08:36 PM
yeah...I hope allan doesn't join in... then nobody would stand a chance :D

Allan: have you played with Frantic's flood yet? Was curious about it... haven't heard much.

depleteD
01-25-2005, 10:36 PM
Hey guys anyone want to form a team?

Im not bad, I like to use aburn and pflow lots and I have TP2. ( gotta learn how to get good fractureing systems tho.)

If anyone is interested my msn is omegashift_@hotmail.com

I attached a bit of my wip.

-Andrew

amckay
01-26-2005, 10:40 PM
Don't worry I won't be joining in - Just getting back into work mode again, contemplating dropping my girlfriend so I can focus on playing catch up with all the stuff I need to get up to scratch with! : )

RE: TP2 - It's a great plugin, very powerful. Downside is that it's a huge overhead and once you finally can take advantage of it, there's maybe two studios in the world that use it and they're not that big. So It's one of those things where you can devote all your time to learning some crazy OS or piece of software, but it's not really going to land you a job since nobody really uses it. Although it definitely can do some funky stuff, and is heading in some cool directions. If more people used it and it was more supportive of Afterburn and other plugins like Glu3d etc. Then it'd definitely be a great particle system to use in production.

SoLiTuDe
01-27-2005, 05:51 AM
thanks for the info... marketing is great on cebas's website... make it look a lot bigger than it is I guess... that's their job though! What would be some of the other particles proggies to know other than pflow, afterburn and the such... I've heard houdini has some really amazing particles (from a not so reliable source), but what do they generally use in the industry in the big-name studios?? Or do they just use propietry stuff that you have to learn to use??

jason-slab
01-27-2005, 12:33 PM
contemplating dropping my girlfriend so I can focus on playing catch up with all the stuff I need to get up to scratch with! : ) :surprised

yikes, dude u work to dam hard!

|jason

amckay
01-27-2005, 10:14 PM
ask anyone - I always choose boozing and girls over work any day ;) although kinda feel out of the loop right now, and just moved back to Sydney so feel I can probably focus a lot more with less distractions ;)

So Houdini is great for particles, interface can be really whack sometimes, although very very powerful. Bad side is that only a handful of places use it. Maya dominates the market - although honestly the particles these days aren't that crash hot, and do require a lot more pain than anything else to ever get the job done.

TP's cool - but you'll be able to work for maybe two studios in the world that use it (there's maybe 3 in reality). Whereas Pflow is very standardized and powerful.

SoLiTuDe
01-28-2005, 12:19 AM
So pflow is the way to go then, and learn maya on the side then??? That sounds like fun, since i'm learning maya on the side anyway.

--yeah... girls and booze are great

avolution
01-28-2005, 02:11 AM
Lock/Bond, Group Select, and Split Group are my three most favorite operators
in Particle Flow Box #1...it's very very cool




So pflow is the way to go then, and learn maya on the side then??? That sounds like fun, since i'm learning maya on the side anyway.

--yeah... girls and booze are great

SoLiTuDe
01-28-2005, 03:14 AM
Yeah... i just got it... not sure what all of the new operators do yet though =P... i'll make sure i take a look at those though. Apparently the guys over at Orbaz (the developers of pflow and particle studio) are working on converting all of the functionality of pstudio into pflow operators, like fragmentation... which means yay!! no scripting! ...I emailed them, asking about it, and that's what they said. =)

jason-slab
01-28-2005, 08:22 AM
sweet sounds cool SoLiTuDe, less scripting means more time playing!!

ot: btw has anyone played withe xsi's particles/dynamics? if so are they anygood?

|jason

amckay
01-30-2005, 09:34 PM
The dynamics are solid, the particles leave a lot to be imagined.
Still it's a step up from the ol soft|mage extreme particles "program" ; )

gavinb
01-30-2005, 09:41 PM
Tis true Mr mckay XSI particles are not up to max oor maya

depleteD
01-31-2005, 12:04 AM
Hey guys,

Im trying to get some falling feathers. Im haveing lots o trouble.

Crits and suggestions more than welcomed.

http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/_scene.avi

-ANdrew

jussing
01-31-2005, 12:21 AM
I'm not the Particle Flow guru, but I think that's looking aces. :)

- Jonas

arturro
01-31-2005, 12:25 AM
Hey guys,

Im trying to get some falling feathers. Im haveing lots o trouble.

Crits and suggestions more than welcomed.

http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/_scene.avi

-ANdrew

Great result! But I think that the feathers should move a bit more like the bottom part of the pendulum. They move like that but it's too less emphasized. I think that a bit more feathers should do at least full "hesitation"... I hope that you get what I mean:)
Can you tell us how you made this efect? becaused it looks like the particles changed the force sources in a control way:)

amckay
02-01-2005, 05:39 AM
I uploaded a falling feathres max scene ages ago .. domains down now so I can't check whether it's still there.
Looking good, can probably give it a lil bit more rotation (based on velocity/speed) but overall looking nice, I would however check when your particles go into the new (green) event, as they have a bit of a speed or direction jump. Gravity is a lil too strong too, I'd say check your turbulence frequency as if it's too high or low it can get it to accel a lil too much.
I'm trying to fix this right now as max's turbulence is pretty old now and so the lack of control for specific effects really does take a way a lot of control.

you could wire your grav or a drag to the particle float and write a script to multiply the float based on the particles velocity if it gets to a certain speed, to try and get it to never peak at a high velocity, if that makes sense. That's going overboard but it's a good work around for getting your feathers to speed up suddenly cause of turbulence etc.

But eitherway the main thing to look at is just the turbulence values causing their speeds to 'jump' a little too quickly.

Looking nice, can't wait to see the final render!

-AM

depleteD
02-02-2005, 04:37 AM
Hey guys thx for the crit.

I uploaded the scene for you guys to take a look at if you would like.

http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/fallingfeathers.max
(right click save as)

The biggest problem I am haveing is that the force doesnt effect the rotation operator. I tried animating a force operators influence (that caused drag) with animation offset to slow the featers down and ease them into the ending of the rotations but to no avail.

Force doesnt effect the velocity of the rotation :(

Im thinking the speed test some how.
Whats the best way to learn maxscript?

THanks guys.
-ANdrew

rohit
02-02-2005, 06:02 AM
hi,

what you guys think about Phoenix 1.5 in comparison with AfterBurn 3.1 ?

Regards, Rohit

treed
02-02-2005, 06:14 AM
rohit, phoenix is made just for tendrily flames, etc. Afterburn can do fire but it's not made for it. AB is for like explosions, dust, clouds, fog. And plus, phoenix is discontinued now since AURA is chaos group's new fire plugin.

depleteD
02-02-2005, 06:31 AM
AYe
WHat treed said.
Pheonix is like a fluid simulator for fire.
Afterburn is a raymarcher shader for particles.

and as treed mentioned pheonix is discontinued and aura has taken its place, aura is pretty dope. I think the new public build just got released. werd.

-ANdrew

Boa
02-02-2005, 10:27 AM
Hi Andrew,
I've had a look at your falling feathers file. One problem could be that your drag stops at frame 100. But maybe you don't need a drag at all. I've reworked your example with the "stop gradually" freebie from Oleg. Have a look:

http://www.bitfresh.com/info/fallingfeathers2.zip

Regards,
Andrea

depleteD
02-02-2005, 08:28 PM
Man that kicks ass Boa. PRops.


I never have gotten around to downloading those freebees.
Glad I did. THat stop gradual operator rox.

-ANdrew

avolution
02-02-2005, 09:48 PM
It's a shame there isn't a max 6 verision of this falling feather scene!


Man that kicks ass Boa. PRops.


I never have gotten around to downloading those freebees.
Glad I did. THat stop gradual operator rox.

-ANdrew

depleteD
02-03-2005, 02:38 AM
Sry avo,
no max 6 here :(

Hey, I played with your scene a bit more and I like the way it turned out.

My original goal was to get a hand animated look of feathers with Procedural Animation.

But now I'm dun this scene On to another effect!
Maybe I will do the downtown VOlcano for FX wars I dunno.

-ANdrew

avolution
02-03-2005, 04:00 AM
Did you know there was only 12 months between the release of max6 (october 2003)
and max7 (october 2004)?

I told my boss I don't want to upgrade until r8, as they offered no new particle flow
increases in r7...i said buy me box#1 through #4 of particle flow tools and i will get
much more out of an already horizontally bloated program...sure they improved reactor,
added character studio..(err not a character animator!) and added edit poly, but I am
gonna hold with r6 and learn particle flow, like proper, ehh (canadzhunn ehhh)...

it takes 128M or Ram just to load the max kernel ! (discreet and microsoft must
drink at the same bar) :rolleyes:



[QUOTE=depleteD]Sry avo,
no max 6 here :(

ArtiZta
02-03-2005, 05:09 AM
As for AB I would like to add, that AB does a good liquid job as well, although nothing close to RealFlow or Glu3D simulations, but for sure better and much much faster then standard blob mesh. The bad part is that it can not take materials, only plane colors and reflections :(

My questions is, it's been a while since AB didn't release any new updates. why?


I told my boss I don't want to upgrade until r8, as they offered no new particle flow
increases in r7...i said buy me box#1 through #4 of particle flow tools and i will get
much more out of an already horizontally bloated program...sure they improved reactor,
added character studio..Hahaha, I agree with you about the particle part.. wish they had added something more in that part of the software. But since at my place we still need to model & animate, the new features of max7 are helping. I do hope they do something more about the particle systems in their next release.

it takes 128M or Ram just to load the max kernel ! (discreet and microsoft must
drink at the same bar) .. this is a good one.. I was thinking, maybe we should go to the bar and bring mr.linux along.. who knows discreet & linux can get along? :)

depleteD
02-03-2005, 09:30 AM
Hey guys here is the feathers.
Thanks for the help guys.

Boa
02-03-2005, 10:42 AM
Nice feathers, Andrew! And good luck with your downtown volcano (if you step into this one).

g8ff
02-03-2005, 04:20 PM
--ArtiZta

Kresimir is working on AB 3.2 currently...whether or not this is going to be a full blown update and released as 4 or just a new build, I can't answer that. Thats just the word. I don't know what it will contain as far as new stuff, just as long as it fixes that flippin' random number initialization generator problem with PFlow and net renders. The feathers look cool by the way.


-Geoff

amckay
02-04-2005, 12:35 AM
Particles in XSI
XSI's particles aren't special but then again any pipeline I've seen that uses XSI it's usually the character animation pipe and then the particles are thrown through max or maya etc. So as long as you have access to pointcache data it's never a big issue. Except pointcache you'll have problems with velocity etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phoenix:
Phoenix and Afterburn are completely different plugins
phoenix is great for doing thin tendril based fire. If you're trying to do fireballs or anything 'big' forget about it. It can't do explosions or anything else. It's just good for tendril fire, and maybe cheesy smoke if you want to push it's limits. However for fire, it's better than any other plugin 'currently' (!!) on the market.
Afterburn is good for more solid effects like clouds, explosions, smoke (thick and thin) and other more solid based effects.

So try not to get the two confused. They're quite different and have different uses. Phoenix is quite old although still useful. Aura's going to probably replace it soon as the fire in that is getting quite good. Although I'd still use phoenix for most fire except when it's up close interacting around an object or something that's a little less linear, purely for speed and flexibilities sake.
.. Sorry just realized half of this was covered on the next page, as I'm playing catch up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pflow tools freebies.
Oleg's kicking butt with the new tools.. Major props to him.
Very useful.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Max 7
Max 7's feature list over 6 is considerably higher than 6 over 5. Granted not for effects, but in general it's verrrry kick butt. Even normal maps and wrap deformers etc. amongst the many other new tools (especially for character stuff) are looking great. So it's well worth the upgrade. Do it!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AB and liquid.
Afterburn 'can' do liquid. It's a LOT faster than the blobmesh compound object in max, as it's all voxel and cpu based it's very powerful and useful. So it's pretty cool, although you can't really texture your particles that well or do anything like that. But definitely faster than mesh driven data on the fly. Real flow etc. Obviously as it's cached out will be faster as it's just reading in the mesh info that realflow calculates. But of course you have to have and use real flow, opposed to standard particles within max.

Check out glu3d, it's very cool and integrated into max along with pflow. Something real flow will never do.

RE: Afterburn - well ... if you haven't seen any updates to it.. then maybe it's well due for an update? Patience : ) Keep in mind AB's pretty much where it needs to be at with 'dumb particles' it's a standard raymarcher shader with a gazillion intuitive controls, so it's definitely cream of the crop. But then again that doesn't mean there might be newer versions of it being worked on as we speak or anything..... *cough*...

Although max 7 doesn't have any real now particle tools, if you look at what Oleg is doing at Orbaz.com he's pushing pflow tools to really answer all the prayers you might have with particles. Cebas are also doing some interesting things with Thinking Particles 2.0.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feathers - cool feathers!

Be great if people post their WIP's of their downtown volcano stuff in here. I'm always too lazy/busy to ever get to check the rest of cg talk so it'd keep me in the loop with the cool stuff you guys are doing.

g8ff... ah cool wasn't sure if Kres had anounced the new AB development or not so that's good you mentioned it. Yeah it's being still being revised and improved. Plus of course plenty of other stuff in development.

As soon as AllanMcKay.COM is back online so I have a place to upload stuff I'll put up some new R&D particle stuff I've been doing.
The stuff I've been doing with Frantic Films is actually quite cool as well, none of the current stuff is really top secret, there's a lot of minor particle R&D which is pretty interesting just with again getting pflow tools to do stuff it's not really designed to do, especially using spawning and lock bond operators for boyancy and other effects.

Cheers,

Mr McKay

avolution
02-04-2005, 09:10 PM
haven't seen you on orbaz.com lately, there seems to be a fair amount of scripters there
(myself excluded...i couldn't script my way out of a cardboard box)

One thing I'd like to see is (someone like you) making a book or DVD on how to
script for Particle Flow (as I am a total prat at it!)

..cheers, from Canada, ehhh
:eek:

As soon as AllanMcKay.COM is back online so I have a place to upload stuff I'll put up some new R&D particle stuff I've been doing.
The stuff I've been doing with Frantic Films is actually quite cool as well, none of the current stuff is really top secret, there's a lot of minor particle R&D which is pretty interesting just with again getting pflow tools to do stuff it's not really designed to do, especially using spawning and lock bond operators for boyancy and other effects.

Cheers,

Mr McKay[/QUOTE]

depleteD
02-05-2005, 01:25 AM
Hey guys
Thanks for the feedback.

FOr a project at school I have to fake an assembly of a grain elevator.
Like the boards build up from the ground. I got the idea from Allans Initial State Preset. Props dood.

Im haveing issues with the render. Its not displaying my shit properly. Its like buggy or sum shit.

Here is what I have. I spent 10 mins doing this.
I just think its a selection problem.
ANd Pflow has a tendency to flip the rotation on some particles for sum reason.

Man A new ABurn would be nice. It has been a while.

-ANdrew

max file is max 7 + pflowtools+freebies

http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/assembleFake.max
http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/assembleTestPost.mov

Edit: Hey guys, I updated the file I am haveing a wierd ass problem.
when i hit quick render (f9) everything renders fine. When I render with f10 it renders the first collided particle then it doesnt render anymore collisions. So weird.

depleteD
02-05-2005, 04:25 AM
Hey I thought maybe it was a bug I was encountering.

This is a reworked scene. I think I got around the bugs it. But it renders properly. Still has some siplay bugs tho.

my biggest issue was the Split selection. The earlier files had the selected particles going onto a series of events. This cause a bunch of bugs. So I made all particles that werent selected go to a delete event. And then the remaining particles continued onto other events. Don't know why this is.

The trick was to get 1 particle per board.

http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/desemble%20test.mov
http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/dissasembleFake.max

(max 7+pflow tools 1)

This is a test I did for a grain elevator self building for a school project.
I was worried I wasn't going to be able to do this.

http://people.uleth.ca/~andrew.melnychukosee/grain%20elevator%20testPost.mov

Man Init State freaking rox. Props Oleg.

-Andrew

OlegB
02-05-2005, 01:14 PM
>Im haveing issues with the render. Its not displaying my shit properly. Its like buggy or sum shit.<

The source of the problem was the Render operator. You had "Mesh per particle". It was not a wise choice for your situation. Here's what the docs say about it:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mesh Per Particle—Sends the renderer a separate mesh for each particle.

This is the least efficient method of operation, but might be required by certain renderers.

Note: With the default scanline and mental ray renderers, this method does not support rendering of particles born after the start of the rendered frame sequence. In general, use Mesh Per Particle only with renderers that require it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks,
Oleg B.

depleteD
02-05-2005, 04:06 PM
Hey Thanks Oleg,

Yea i was ripping my hair out, but I did get the method to werk.
Maybe I should read those docs sum time :D

Whats the word for box 2? You gonna have a public beta?

-Andrew

charleyc
02-07-2005, 05:31 PM
Andrew, I like some of those files you posted. Not sure if you are still looking for feathers, but here is one I did a while back.

www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Feathers.zip (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/Feathers.zip)

nawaz1983
02-11-2005, 05:30 PM
hi there peeps

i was wonder if any one can tell me if theres a way other than using a bomb space warp to break apart or blow up a object, i have CG Academy AfterBurn Masters DVD, where allan mckay blows up a teapot, but i wanna no how he does it

thanks for any help

cheers
nawaz1983

SoLiTuDe
02-12-2005, 01:38 AM
parray can do it, by using the "object fragment" (or something like that) option in the particle shape options. With Pflow it's a bit trickier right now, you have to use scripts to do it. Allan has a tutorial on this on his website, but the site is still down.
Good luck!

wepideke
02-12-2005, 02:49 PM
can anyone help me out here.. My pflow scene always crashes, heres the setup
hxxp://users.skynet.be/fa211179/setup.max it uses an animated spawn rate.. It appears pflow doesnt support this.

avolution
02-12-2005, 06:34 PM
I have corrected the link for you.
I won't be back at work till Monday
(one animator, one max license)
maybe someone else can help....


http://users.skynet.be/fa211179/setup.max



can anyone help me out here.. My pflow scene always crashes, heres the setup
hxxp://users.skynet.be/fa211179/setup.max it uses an animated spawn rate.. It appears pflow doesnt support this.

SoLiTuDe
02-15-2005, 10:30 PM
freezes mine up too... i haven't tried playing with the values or animating it myself yet... but at least it's not just your computer =)

avolution
02-17-2005, 03:25 AM
Anything PArray can do particle flow can do, and better.

If you need a birth script let me know, I have both Allan McKay's
birth script and Bobo's birth script (preferred)


parray can do it, by using the "object fragment" (or something like that) option in the particle shape options. With Pflow it's a bit trickier right now, you have to use scripts to do it. Allan has a tutorial on this on his website, but the site is still down.
Good luck!

SoLiTuDe
02-17-2005, 07:13 AM
Anything PArray can do particle flow can do, and better.

If you need a birth script let me know, I have both Allan McKay's
birth script and Bobo's birth script (preferred)

Anything parray can do pflow can do better thats for sure... except fragmenting objects =P At least parray it's a one click deal for the less experienced...but it does turns into that with premade scripts I guess. --Can't wait for box 2 of plfow tools! :thumbsup: Should be looking at fragmentation like old particles studio or sandblaster as operators

mouj
02-17-2005, 12:13 PM
Heya folks, been a while ! Allan, great insight on particles and plugins, thanks : )
Browsing late pages i fell on that feathers stuff, made me want to try something, so here's a first test : plume (.mov 320x240 1meg) (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/feathers.mov) feel free to comment, i have tested quite quickly, so i did not get time to tweak anything much, and the setup is pretty basic (here is a pview (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/plumview.jpg) for anyone interested).

Not long ago i was asked how could some sort of a "branching system" be created with PFlow, so here is a test on this (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/branch_test.avi), once again a simple setup (lack of time is killing me) made out of collision planes and winds to drive particles (here a pview (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/branch_view.jpg), and a screenshot (http://schafik.free.fr/mouj/dump/branch_cap.jpg)). I'd like to hear comments on this too, has anyone tried that and come up with a decent something ?

mouj

amckay
02-17-2005, 10:44 PM
Solitude, parray can do a few things better.. or lets just say 'easier' like particles growing, mapping uv coordinates to a particle, stuff like that. Although a lot of the trickier stuff is now being fixed with pflow tools.

RE: Birthscripts (or at least in regard to fracturing)... for the record mine's an absolute hack, and it's purpose was for something simple, but then everyone wanted to grab it so I made it public. Hands down, always go for bobo's stuff... bobo is your god, and your daddy.

I'm getting really impatient with my domain, it's just going back and forth back and forth.. I've been developing a lot of cool new scripts (both pflow and standard max) and a lot of new material, but can't put it up intil my damn site goes back up.. not happy!! Ohwell not too long to go... I hope... fingers crossed....ack.

Mouj - great work mate! Keep it up, love to see any new tests or stuff you do.

Actually one thing I haven't played with much until now is the vector channel in pflowScript... that stuff is dang sweet I tells ya.

Reality3D
02-18-2005, 01:31 AM
I did something similar to that time ago mouj
http://www.telefonica.net/web/r3d/arbol.avi

avolution
02-18-2005, 03:03 AM
Have you checked out Orbaz.com lately?
There's lots of members and Oleg
has started a scripting forum...

You should check it out.....



I'm getting really impatient with my domain, it's just going back and forth back and forth.. I've been developing a lot of cool new scripts (both pflow and standard max) and a lot of new material, but can't put it up intil my damn site goes back up.. not happy!! Ohwell not too long to go... I hope... fingers crossed....ack.

The_Magician
02-18-2005, 03:42 AM
wow reality3d, that looks pretty cool.

Is it done the same way that Mouj did his?

charleyc
02-18-2005, 08:34 AM
I played with growing plants with PFlow a while ago. It is a lot of fun. Here is one I just did for the fun of it.
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/GrowingPlant.avi (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/GrowingPlant.avi)
DivX
www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/GrowingPlant.max (http://www.charleycarlat.com/Tests/GrowingPlant.max)

mouj
02-18-2005, 11:47 AM
Reality3D, that is sweet ! And charleyc, nice test too, i'd be curious to learn a bit more on how you both achieved these. Maybe i should consider mapping the tests i post : )
I have a bit of a technical question (maybe a foolish one), could PFlow's data be by anyway exported or used / adapted to drive particles in a C++ real time engine (without baking meshes) ? I guess it's down to : how can PFlow data be exported and used, and can a particle system be build upon it in a real-time engine ?

mouj

amckay
02-20-2005, 09:20 PM
Yeah I'm on orbaz's forums daily, although not really too active in the public areas, will try to be in future.

I've been talking with Grant Adam (kickass maxscript td from Melbourne) about max's wind, and he's been cool enough to write up a new and improved 3dsmax wind which has a lot more settings available for it, so hopefully now this should fix peoples problems with max's wind being so primitive.
You can grab it at http://www.rpmanager.com/plugins/BetterWind.htm

As for exporting pflow data.. yes. It'll probably be easier when Oleg writes up a particle disk cached version of cache, but you can just write a script to output every particles vector and position information to a text file and have it read that in.

jlelievre
02-20-2005, 11:42 PM
YES!!! Finally...someone has come up with a new wind! Many many thanks to Grant for writing this, and thanks to Allan for posting it. I can't tell you how long I have been waiting for this new feature...

/me skips off to make some cool tests. :)

Reality3D
02-21-2005, 06:50 AM
Grant Adam, lord of our praises lol
:thumbsup:

Reality3D
02-21-2005, 12:30 PM
I was asked about the growing tree sample. So here it goes

depleteD
02-21-2005, 07:31 PM
Thanks for the wind. Pass my thanks on to grant Adams.

-Andrew

avolution
02-22-2005, 03:32 AM
As for the BetterWind...I was totally blown away, in a very turbulant manner!:thumbsup:

I've been talking with Grant Adam (kickass maxscript td from Melbourne) about max's wind, and he's been cool enough to write up a new and improved 3dsmax wind which has a lot more settings available for it, so hopefully now this should fix peoples problems with max's wind being so primitive.
You can grab it at http://www.rpmanager.com/plugins/BetterWind.htm

galagast
02-22-2005, 05:07 AM
hi it seems like orbaz forums is down, cant access it so, myt as well post here in the mean time as my question is particle flow related... here goes..

im trying out a simple script which will align individual particles to individual animated objects.

here's the code...

on ChannelsUsed pCont do
(
pCont.useTM = true
)
on Init pCont do
(
global BitsArray = $Bits* as array
)
on Proceed pCont do
(
for i in 1 to BitsArray.count do
(
pcont.particleindex = i
pcont.particleTM = BitsArray[i].transform
)
)
on Release pCont do
(

)

and attached is a screengrab of the flow.

it works fine, i can see the particles (circles) placed on each object, but the problem is, I cant see the spawned particles.. it only appears when I set the spawn rate to "per second". But setting it that way wont make the particles trail behind...
My objective is to create animated objects, place particles on thier center pivots, and emit particles as they move, much like "ghost trailing".
Its alot like setting up a position object operator set on "lock on Emmiter:PIVOT", but this method is too slow for me...
I know there's something wrong with this script, i just cant figure out how or where it is... hopany coms n xugs are much appreciated.
:)

charleyc
02-22-2005, 07:05 AM
you need to add speed to your particles. Orbaz Forums seem to be working fine for me...

anyway, here is something that works, but there may be a better way..this seems to push the particles ahead 1 frame...not sure why...but it is quite late here so....

_______________________________________________
on ChannelsUsed pCont do

(

pCont.useTM = true

pCont.useSpeed = true

)

on Init pCont do

(

global BitsArray = $Bits* as array

)

on Proceed pCont do

(

for i in 1 to BitsArray.count do

(

pcont.particleindex = i

at time (currentTime - 1f) spdThen = bitsArray[i].pos

at time currentTime spdNow = bitsArray[i].pos

bitSpeed = (spdNow - spdThen)/160 --160 is the number of ticks per frame at 30 fps

pcont.particleTM = BitsArray[i].transform

pCont.particleSpeed = bitSpeed

)

)

on Release pCont do

(

)
______________________________________________________