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Bobo
04-13-2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by BigRanS123
Did you use spring weights to create the drag in the hair?


Nope, straight out-of-the-box Flex modifier.

capt chuck
04-14-2004, 12:06 AM
If I saw folks 20 pages of posts ago saying they were late to the party... then I guess I'm well beyond that :p

Anyway, I read all the way through this thread (and what a great thread) and wanted to share my laminar fountain attempt

laminar fountain (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/?act=view&file=Y3dhcmRpbl9mb3V0YWluX3Rlc3QyLmF2aS5hdmk=)

I didn't know the name was "laminar" until I started looking for reference video, but it's the "leap frog" fountains like you see at Disney World etc. Never did find a good video showing what the splash looked like, but as I recall they were pretty small.

PiledotNET
04-14-2004, 11:22 AM
Sorry Bobo, I didn't get it.

Where do you've applyed the modifier?

I'm having a strange problem, when I move my base object (sphere) particles stay in place.

No results here yet.

Rens
04-14-2004, 03:50 PM
First I thought he used some kind of script that would rotate the hairs around their base point when the speed changes, so more speed, more rotation or something like that.

I applied the flex to the original object, so it would be copied to the rest. I used 'lock on emitter' in position object. The hairs will turn, but will eventually turn into the teapot...

Who is nearing the solution to this riddle? :)

Bobo
04-14-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Rens Heeren
First I thought he used some kind of script that would rotate the hairs around their base point when the speed changes, so more speed, more rotation or something like that.

I applied the flex to the original object, so it would be copied to the rest. I used 'lock on emitter' in position object. The hairs will turn, but will eventually turn into the teapot...

Who is nearing the solution to this riddle? :)

You are VERY close.
Just one step missing....

Bobo,
The Teaser

KaMe
04-14-2004, 05:11 PM
Ok.

I uploaded the file to Deetees pfupload:

LINK (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/index.php?act=dl&file=S2FtZV9Ub3JuYWRvU21hbGxEaXZ4Mi5hdmk=)

Also, if you are having trouble with WMP, here is the same file with a .video extension (just rename it to .avi):

LINK (http://fire.prohosting.com/kame3d/TornadoSmallDivx.video)

(Deetee, you can delete the file named Kame_TornadoSmallDivx.avi in the pfupload, its not working :scream: )

And, here is my try on the hairy teapot riddle:

LINK (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/index.php?act=dl&file=S2FtZV9IVGVhcG90LmF2aQ==)

Its just a script operator that controls the Box bend modifier angle. At the moment it just works with Z Movements, but i'm still working on it...

Or, you could just create a box with a flex modifier, instance it 'n' times, use particles to align them to the Teapot normals, and then just link them to the Teapot. :thumbsup:

Rens
04-14-2004, 05:19 PM
No, linking doesnt work somehow.

I have the base of the hairs (tapered prisms) moving with the teapot's surface, but the rotation stays the same, so they will eventually stick through the teapot...

- oh wait, linking the original prism to the teapot so it will inherit it's rotation, I think that's it... (or did you mean that KaMe?)

deetee
04-14-2004, 05:26 PM
If the hairs turn into the teapot, cant you then make a UDeflector and add the tpot in the flex? So it bounces off? I dont dare to open Max today. Have a project I have to deliver tomorrow, so havent had any time testing anything :/

KaMe
04-14-2004, 05:28 PM
Well... it works for me...
And yes, you can add a UDeflector. You can add gravity to.
Here is a quick preview:

LINK (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/index.php?act=dl&file=S2FtZV9IVGVhcG90Mi5hdmk=)

Bobo
04-14-2004, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Rens Heeren

- oh wait, linking the original prism to the teapot so it will inherit it's rotation, I think that's it...


BINGOOOOOOOO!!! :applause:

deetee
04-14-2004, 05:45 PM
Hold on now.. Linking the prism to the teapot? ... Can someone post a scene soon.. Dont tempt med to open max! please! :)

KaMe
04-14-2004, 05:48 PM
What i did was:
Use the same Flow as you used to align the particles to the teapot.
Create n boxes with flex (n = number of particles)
Use this simple script to align the boxes to the particles:

on Proceed pCont do
(
barr = $fbox* as array
count = pCont.NumParticles()
for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleindex = i
barr[i].transform = pCont.particleTM
)
)

The boxes name must start with fbox.
Now just turn off your flow and link the boxes to the teapot :]

Worked for me... :thumbsup:

Edit: Ok, now i realized you don't need that. You just have to link the original 'hair' to the Teapot and done...

Rens
04-14-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Bobo
BINGOOOOOOOO!!! :applause:
Bingo shmingo :)
Not there yet completely, so you'll have to wait a little bit longer :)

I still can't get them to inherit the rotation, this is what I did after I made the same setup as Bobo's; the one with the static hairs:

- Animated the teapot so that it rotates very nicely indeed;
- turned on 'lock on emitter' in the position object operator;
- gave the prism/cone an orientation constraint and linked it to the teapot, the hair now has the same rotation as the "hairy potter";
- I even turned on 'animated shape' in the shape instance operator;
- dragged the slider and... AGONY! It's horrible, I just know there's Some Little Thing I Forgot...

Is there something I did wrong? It seems to me the prisms on the teapot should inherit the rotation from the original one like this... hmm.

PiledotNET
04-14-2004, 06:38 PM
Niiiceee, greate game guys!

What's next? :D

[EDIT] 3 max files with my static hair tests:
http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/redpixel-cabelo3dsmax6.zip

ref:
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/news/hairwithparticles02.jpg

Bobo
04-14-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Rens Heeren
Bingo shmingo :)
Not there yet completely, so you'll have to wait a little bit longer :)

I still can't get them to inherit the rotation, this is what I did after I made the same setup as Bobo's; the one with the static hairs:


Ok, here is my original scene:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_HairyTeapot_05.max

Have fun!

Bobo

amckay
04-14-2004, 10:41 PM
now make it wet when it comes in contact with water ;)

treed
04-14-2004, 10:53 PM
now make it wet when it comes in contact with water


Now that would be a good challenge. :p

deetee
04-15-2004, 12:35 AM
@ Allan : Yeah, cause you got to love those hairy wet things eh? ;)

Would adding shapemark when it comes in contact with the water be a bad thing ? :/

amckay
04-15-2004, 12:49 AM
hair has completely different dynamic properties when it water than when dry, they aren't just more shiny ;)

deetee
04-15-2004, 12:49 AM
Bah, then throw in a gravity in the mix, on the flex! :)

PiledotNET
04-15-2004, 12:55 AM
Can a particle identify the contact with the geometry of other particles?

And after this contact, can you substitute the contacted particles with others?

*Sorry for my english

amckay
04-15-2004, 01:56 AM
yeah it's possible, think it gets slow though.
having that problem right now writing an operator for particles to communicate with eachother in different events, not a fan :)

Rens
04-15-2004, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Bobo
Ok, here is my original scene:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_HairyTeapot_05.max

Have fun!

Bobo
Thanks!

Ok, it all makes sense now.

The problem I had was that the hairs were turning into the teapot after a certain rotation and I didn't bother to turn flex back on until the problem was fixed. But it turns out that the problem is in fact no problem at all, well, it still is, but it's not visible when you use a small rotation and flex.
Just give the z rotation of hairy potter's second key a value of -300 instead of -75 and you'll see what I mean, even with flex.

Seems like I had it all along but was a little too busy wanting to make the teapot spin like mad. So am I still eligible for that "BINGOOOO!!!"? Hehe :)

But is it possible to keep the hairs locked to the surface?
Please tell me I wasn't chasing after an imaginary solution all that time :)

Rens

deetee
04-15-2004, 06:32 AM
I must be the only not not beeing able to figure out how the flex and mesh select works. Never used those tools before. How do you get the hair to stick so nicely to the pot and not go into itself again.. I just cant figure out the Mesh Select thing.. hehe.. Thats pretty noobish, even read the help with no luck.. Maybe its because its 8AM and I havent gone to bed yet..

noden
04-15-2004, 01:54 PM
Amazing thread.,,. i could explain how much the information here helps,.., it allowed me to hop right into particle flow systems,.., (wouldn't have it any other way :)

I have one question though.,., i'm working on a project that includes a sequence where thousands of small bound dna and iron oxide cubes are swirling around in a vile, and then attract to a magnet that raises to the side of the vile,.,.

the behaviour is perfect and it would other wise be ready to go,.., except that i cannot use a poly or mesh for the dna because it is a rediculous number of polygons for a particle system.,., one dna strand probably has thousands in itself.,,. i lowered the poly count as much as i could,. but it's still just way to complex a shape for a pflow system,.,. (i think,,..,:hmm: )

so since the dna strands are so small i tried to use a regular single helix that is renderable to 3pnts,. and then put a bend modifier on it.,,. which should work,.,.

but the helix won't render when it's instanced in a pfsource.,,.

has anyone ran into a similar problem.,., or have any suggestions on allowing for a high number of polys,.,.

thanks,.,.

noden.,.,.,

BigRanS123
04-15-2004, 01:59 PM
Is there no way that you can render in multiple passes and then composite them in another program?

I am running into the same problem there on some of the stuff that I have done and have had to make many passes, and if you keep your z-depth you can still composite them to look 3d.

Hope this helps!

BigRanS

noden
04-15-2004, 02:47 PM
thanks for the response,..,

i considered that as well.,., but the 2 bound objects (dna and cube) are grouped,.., and revolve around each other.,., so some are in front of the other and vise versa.,.,

i also tried shape facing,.,. but it looked very strange,.,. and there was a lot of redundancy in the form of the dna,.., even when the particle group was split into four sections of variations on the dna png sequence that was mapped to the shape facing,.,.

also.,,. i am not exacly sure what you mean by maintaining the z-depth.,,.


thanks again for the help,.,.

noden,.,.,.

BigRanS123
04-15-2004, 02:55 PM
I just thought of the shape facing idea, and what you can do with that is render out two or three animations of the DNA spinning around and then place the animations on the facing shapes with an alpha so that it still looks 3d. This may not work to well with your lights, but then it may!

The z-depth is what you use in compositing programs to give a 2d object 3d depth. I know you can do it in combustion and after effects (i think)

Good luck, and I would like to see what you have so far!


:beer:

Bobo
04-15-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by deetee
I must be the only not not beeing able to figure out how the flex and mesh select works. Never used those tools before. How do you get the hair to stick so nicely to the pot and not go into itself again.. I just cant figure out the Mesh Select thing.. hehe.. Thats pretty noobish, even read the help with no luck.. Maybe its because its 8AM and I havent gone to bed yet..


MeshSelect is a light-weight modifier which can only be used to select sub-object elements (vertices, edges, faces) and pass them up the stack. In the beginning of MAX 1.0, you would have used EditMesh to do this, but it was too memory-hungry, so the developers decided to split its features into smaller modules. This way, you could add a MeshSelect on top of the mesh and a DeleteMesh on top. If you would select faces in the MeshSelect, they would be passed up to the DeleteMesh and deleted.
Then you could go back years later to the same scene and change the selection in MeshSelect, which would delete different faces... Procedural editing! Same with other modifiers that operate on sub-selections.

The reason for the MeshSelect on top of the Teapot was this:
When linking the single source hair to the teapot, PFlow took the complete hierarchy (Teapot+single Hair) as a source and started growing hairs on the hair! Some on this thread used a constraint which would solve the problem, but I had a better idea. I switched the Position Object operator to operate on Selected Faces and used the MeshSelect to provide the selection. The beauty of this approach is that you can go into the MeshSelect and select some faces, and the hair will grow only on them! You could switch to Element Sub-Object level and select single elements like the Teapot's lid, and the hair will move there and so on... I checked the "Lock On Emitter" checkbox in the Position Object operator to get the hair particles to stick.

Just load the scene and look around...

Bobo

Bercon
04-15-2004, 05:46 PM
Here is my PFlow hair test. I had to test how it would work on human (android), pretty easy to set up.

http://www.vantaa-vaskivuori.fi/~jerrylil/graphics/PFlow_Hair_01.jpg

PiledotNET
04-15-2004, 05:59 PM
I'm testing here some hairstyle and fur, looks very promissing.

Only dynamics isn't good enougth, yet.

Nice tests MasterBercon. Try to make more hair "objects' (more patterns) and try to spin them a little.

noden
04-15-2004, 06:20 PM
well,.,. it seems that the reason the renderable helixs weren't rendering in a particle system was because of the bend modifier that was stacked on them.,., it does the same with the fdd boxes.,,. not sure if this is just a flaw on my computer,.., or if other people have ran into this,.,. but i'm just going to settle for linear strands of dna and leave it at that,.., especially with a 2 day deadline,,. :surprised

i'm also suprised at how nice seperated particle systems can look with the mental ray DOF,.,. ahh.,., it's beautiful.,,.

and again.,,. thanks for the input BigRanS

capt chuck
04-15-2004, 06:25 PM
This is a timelapse of hair growing (or a chia pet)

chia pet (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/index.php?act=view&file=Y3dhcmRpbl9jaGlhX2JveC5hdmk=)

Now the next thing I'm trying to figure out is how to integrate this with what bobo did. So that they start off straight and after a time begin to get a bend and get more flex.

PiledotNET
04-16-2004, 01:38 PM
Need improvement.


Fur01
http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/hairwithparticles05.jpg


Fur02
http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/hairwithparticles06.jpg

amckay
04-16-2004, 04:41 PM
Damn! It looks just like my chest! The skin tone and everything!

treed
04-17-2004, 02:48 AM
Really Allan! I wouldn't know, lol. Ok guys I've been fidiling around to get this kind of stringy effect and I think it's kickass. It kinda looks like hair but it will probably look different once I render out the animation. Theres two versions, one without the vortex space warp and one with. Tell me what you guys think. ;)


silly particle thingy (http://www.queensoul.com/~tylerreed/silly%20particle%20thingy.avi)

silly particle thingy1 (http://www.queensoul.com/~tylerreed/silly%20particle%20thingy1.avi)

And then a frame of the animation...

silly particle thingy frame (http://www.queensoul.com/~tylerreed/silly%20particle%20thing.jpg)

JeffPatton
04-17-2004, 03:57 AM
WOW, thats cool Tyler! I would love to see that rendered with some facing particles and one of the "ghost" shaders I put in the mental ray shader library.

Jeff

treed
04-17-2004, 04:00 AM
Hehe, yeah I'm using the mr_subscatter material but I'll try many different shaders to get different results.

Bercon
04-17-2004, 09:26 AM
New thread for tweaking and making shaders for particle hair.

Particle Hair (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1278358)

Morpheus09
04-17-2004, 04:33 PM
I have a question for the Scriptmasters

In Pflow the Position Object Emitt Particel but random
Is it posible to write a script that Emitt the Particel in a special order ?

Bobo
04-17-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Morpheus09
I have a question for the Scriptmasters

In Pflow the Position Object Emitt Particel but random
Is it posible to write a script that Emitt the Particel in a special order ?

Can you explain what exactly is the idea?
Do you mean something like 100 particles from first object on the list, then 100 from the second, them 200 from the third on the list, or something different? Or do you want the particles to be ordered ON the surface of the respectibe Position object?

The first thing can be done using regular PFlow without scripting.
The second one would be slightly trickier, but I think it is scriptable.

Some example case would be useful to answer this question...

treed
04-17-2004, 09:03 PM
Aight peeps, heres the finished animation.

Particle thingy (http://www.queensoul.com/~tylerreed/silly%20particle%20thingy.mov) :)

Rens
04-17-2004, 09:16 PM
Treed:

That looks great, really cool! Can I ask how you did this?

Morpheus09
04-17-2004, 10:10 PM
Ok i have 20 Selected Vertices that emitt Particle
as you can see it is random
some Particle are emitt from the same Vertices

i need a script or something like that, that emitt Patricles from every Selected Vetices and in a special order

KaMe
04-18-2004, 03:01 AM
Try this:

Instead of a normal Birth Operator use a Birth Script with this code in the 'on Proceed pCont do' part:


on Proceed pCont do
(
ss = $Sphere01
varr = getvertselection ss as array -- Get the vert selection
t1 = pCont.getTimeStart()
if t1<0 do
(
for i in 1 to varr.count do -- Run trought all selected verts and add a particle to each selected vert
(
ThePos = getvert ss varr[i] -- Get the selected vert position
pCont.AddParticle() -- Add a particle
pCont.particleIndex = pCont.NumParticles()
pCont.particleAge = 0
pCont.particlePosition = ThePos -- Sets the particle Position to the vertex position
)
)
)


Where 'Sphere01' is the object that the particles will be emmited from (i must be a Editable Mesh).

And the order depends on what you are trying to achieve.

If you want to just make the particles Speed diferent, you could use something like this. Just add a Script Operator after the Birth Script with this code on the 'on Proceed...' part:


on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
ss = $Sphere01
varr = getvertselection ss as array
for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleIndex = i
t1 = (pCont.particleTime as float / 160) -- Get the current particle time in frames
theTime = 50 + i -- Particles will start moving at frame 50
if t1 == theTime do
(
pCont.particleSpeed = (getnormal ss varr[i])*0.1 -- Set the particle Speed to the Sphere01 normals.
)
)
)


I'm sure there is a way of mergin those 2 scripts and probably there is a better way of doing what you want too. I'm still learning maxScript so Bobo can probably help you with that :thumbsup:

Btw, Cool animation treed :applause:

Morpheus09
04-18-2004, 09:18 AM
ok the script work but it is not exactly what i am searching for

to give you a better understanding the script is for my matrixcode
the problem is that same "matrixcodestrings" overlap :(

Morpheus09
04-18-2004, 09:57 AM
Here ist the max file

http://home.t-online.de/home/david.rosada/matrixcode.jpg

Matriccode Maxfile (http://home.t-online.de/home/david.rosada/matrixcode4d.zip)

treed
04-18-2004, 04:41 PM
Rens Heeren, I want to see if you can duplicate what I did without just me telling you. :cool: It's fairly easy to set up. :thumbsup: If you can't figure it out then i'll post how I did it.

Rens
04-18-2004, 05:18 PM
Ah, another challenge :)

Ok, I'll try to replicate it, I may have some ideas as how you did it.

I'll post as soon as I have some results worth showing.

loran
04-18-2004, 08:26 PM
NODEN:
To render helix or spline as a shape instance, you must convert it to poly or add a Editmesh modifier.
"renderable" spline option isn't understandable by PF

I hope that helps

Post pictures or animation of your works !!
I m interrested about MR DOF with PF

good luck

Loran

loran
04-18-2004, 08:33 PM
TREED:
your rain blobmesh (is it?) looks pretty cool !!
this is nearly perfect!
could u tell us more about your settings??
thx

treed tests:
[http://www.queensoul.com/~tylerreed/pflow_rain.mov]
[http://www.queensoul.com/~tylerreed/pflow_rain_final1.mov]
[http://www.queensoul.com/~tylerreed/pflow_rain_final2.mov]

treed
04-18-2004, 08:51 PM
Sure, well basically the whole thing is put together using spawns, collisions, and speed by surfaces. The really big problem on the first and second pflow rain was that it looked like worms crawling over the surface of the sphere and not actual water droplets. I fixed that in the latest animation by tweaking the collision spawn and other spawns in the flow. It was a good learning experience and can be applied to many cool effects such as water running down a window surface or something similar. I wasen't able to render out all the frames on the pflow_rain_final2 because it was going at about 58min a frame so I stopped it and it turned out pretty good. And yes, the blobmesh is a memory hog. Thats why you never display it in the viewport while working. But it does have really good results when its set up right. :)

Heres a picture of the pflow tree.

pflow tree (http://www.queensoul.com/~tylerreed/rain1.jpg)


Again, thanks Allan for your method or this wouldn't be possible, thanks M8. :cool:

Rens
04-18-2004, 09:19 PM
treed:

Ok, this is a very simple setup I just made, see the attachment.

Is this close to what you did?

The spawn test has a per second rate of 80 and a speed inheritance of 25%.

Rens
04-18-2004, 09:21 PM
attachment...

treed
04-18-2004, 09:33 PM
Your almost there dude. :) I opened up my scene and tried it with your settings and its very very close. I just have different settings in the spawn test. I'm not going to post my settings just yet, I want to see a preview animation before I'll do that.

Rens
04-18-2004, 10:07 PM
Ok, will do :)

But how do I apply a motion blur to PFlow particles? Because I can't seem to get it. Just with scanline for this one.

-Oh, you're using 'By Travel Distance' then to keep a more constant string of particles?

treed
04-18-2004, 11:05 PM
To apply mblur to particles, right click the event and go to properties. Then you'll see the motion blur option box at the bottom right. Yup, by travel distance is what I'm using and it does get a more defined stringy look than by rate.

Aurorae
04-19-2004, 06:15 AM
Just messing around ^.^

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/aurorae/Find%20target.avi

treed, the rain stuff is really nice, any chance at having a look at the scene file?

Tried to make something similar in max 5, but w/o blobmesh it looks very 'solid' and bouncy. Ah well :hmm:

deetee
04-19-2004, 09:06 AM
@ Aurorae : Try making the blobmesh 0.5 in tension, and make the "Evaluation Coarseness" low for the render. Turn on "Large Data Optimization" and if you have a fast computer - you can even add a "Relax" modifyer to the blobmesh for it to be more complex.

That blobmesh setting will give you something looking like this (http://www.dagthomasolsen.com/wip/rain3.avi)

Rens
04-19-2004, 09:54 AM
I made a short animation with the stringy particles.

I had another setup with an extra wind force for more turbulence and variation, but that file kept crashing :shrug:

movie (http://www.am-ende.net/3dmax/movies/lab/stringy_01.avi) (DivX, 600 KB)

It looks a bit boring now, but I'll try to tweak it this evening.

loran
04-19-2004, 02:15 PM
here is a test for HAir dynamics using PF
based on the Bobo's hairyPot, I replace the Flex by Skin and Bones (with spring controller).
The problem with flex is that I can't keep the strand unstretched.
In fast motion strand always expand stupidly, I cant find the good settings even with springs otpions.
So, I build 4 bones rig with 3 PointsHelpers with SpringControllers.
I add a gravity force in springs settings.
Stretch prob is solved

The other problem is always the same that in the bobo's example, when you twist the Lead ball (teapot in bobo's), strands orientation become strange due to
the combination of SpeedBySurface and SpeedSpaceRotation I think...

Anyone to solve that ?
thx

[http://forumel.free.fr/MyHairs01.max]

[http://forumel.free.fr/Hairs00.mov]

:p

Breinmeester
04-19-2004, 03:17 PM
Haven't been here for a while, been busy going old school with the pencil and the pad. Man, is this thread moving fast, takes quite some time to read it all back.

The PF hair is coming along nicely. Nice rig, Loran. I remember posting that same solution a few pages back, but I didn't get it to work as good as you did. Looks like that ball's got my barber. ;)

Aurorae
04-19-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by deetee
@ Aurorae : Try making the blobmesh 0.5 in tension, and make the "Evaluation Coarseness" low for the render. Turn on "Large Data Optimization" and if you have a fast computer - you can even add a "Relax" modifyer to the blobmesh for it to be more complex.

That blobmesh setting will give you something looking like this (http://www.dagthomasolsen.com/wip/rain3.avi)

max 5 doesnt have blobmesh, thats what I was saying ^.^

the only thing similar to that is in super spray, which afaik doesnt work w/ particle flow.

Thanks for the setting anyway though!

amckay
04-19-2004, 05:19 PM
heyyy cool stuff guys pretty hard to keep track of all the cool things going on on here right now ;)

Will post some R&D scenes I've been doing lately soon - kind of stuck with a big deadline and some other stuff that's taking up all my time unfortunately :\ so only getting to glance over the threads every few days. But seems there's lots of stuff going on here right now ;)

Cool!!

treed
04-19-2004, 08:07 PM
Aurorae, here are two different blobmesh plugins for max 5.

http://www.habware.at/max4/Blobs4.zip

http://www.max3dstuff.com/max4/blobMod/blobMod.zip

loran
04-22-2004, 10:52 AM
I trying to build a Avoid system
Particules have to anticipate obstacles on their way
anyone ever try this?

loran
04-22-2004, 04:29 PM
here is my test
It's quite simple:
a wind push the particles forward
keep apart repeal them from the bloks
wind perturbation smooth the hard repeal motion

the difficulty is to make the particles ease in when approching a obstacle.

[http://forumel.free.fr/PF/avoid02.mov]
[http://forumel.free.fr/PF/avoid03.mov]

amckay
04-22-2004, 09:58 PM
Hey guys, was just playing earlier with something which is still very early days, but writing an operator to have sheets of glass or other things and have an object crash through them, and it samples that area and tells it to go to the new event with an initial velocity assigned that decays from the impact position out.

right now it's early days, although I'm writing most of the elements seperately which will then be put togeather.
The idea is that I could get a flat plane, and run the script, it will shatter the object and assign each piece to a particle which then will be sampled through the operator.

The part I'm showing is kind of simple, but figured it might be cool to show as you can do a lot with it. Rather than using deflectors and operators this just samples the objects in an array and if they are within a radius it sets the impact area. I'm about to transfer it over to a particle system which is being a lot harder than it should be to have two systems communicate.

A lot of this can be done through operators but it'sfun to try and do it all by hand.

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/part_assignment.avi


anyway this isn't very fancy at all, there's a lot I have to clean up too and it's just the basics. but thought it'd be worth throwing up, stuck between blade and exorcist stuff so dealing with stinking particles ugly ui and needed some pflow lovin in my spare time ;)



on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
bullet = $bullet* as array

for foo in 1 to bullet.count do
(
for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleIndex = i
ppos = (pcont.particleposition)
impact_pos = ((distance ppos bullet[foo].pos) * (random (random .6 1.1) .7))

if impact_pos <= 15 then
(
local bullet_vel = (.1 / (impact_pos / random .5 1.9))
pcont.particlespeed = [bullet_vel,bullet_vel,bullet_vel]




/ (pCont.particleSpeed /30)
pCont.particleTestStatus = true
)


)
)


)

monkeydonut
04-23-2004, 02:28 PM
man, I wish I was stuck between blade and exorcist stuff :)

amckay
04-23-2004, 03:47 PM
I'm going to be stuck between a toilet bowl and a some bottles of tequila tonight ;)

PiledotNET
04-23-2004, 09:38 PM
Tequila make me work faster, don't know why ;)

Just passed here to notify you guys I've published 18 minutes video tutorial. It's free.

http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/news/vthair3dsmax.jpg (http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v075)

Bobo
04-23-2004, 10:16 PM
Brilliant tutorial!
Nicely explained, easy to understand step-by-step presentation even for non-portuguese-speaking users like me :)
(I am sure the introduction of my nickname will earn lots of smiles in Brazil ;) )

Once again, great job!

Bobo

treed
04-23-2004, 10:22 PM
Ok umm, how do I d/l it, lol? Its not letting me d/l when I click on the links which i can't read.

Bobo
04-23-2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by treed
Ok umm, how do I d/l it, lol? Its not letting me d/l when I click on the links which i can't read.

It is streaming.
When you click the Windows Media Player link, a new window should open asking for email and password. If you don't have a password for redPixel, click the last link saying
"Novo usurio? Cadastre-se gratuitamente!"
(New user? Register for free), then enter your email (twice) and your desired password (twice) and then do the same in the previous screen that will appear again after registration.
Then the Windows Media Player (9!) should open and sream the tutorial.

treed
04-23-2004, 11:13 PM
Wow, great work. It looks so realistic and yet so easy to do. And the best part about it is, you don't need shag hair to do it. :)

seantree
04-24-2004, 01:16 AM
that hair tut rocks! thanks man! This thread has been great. I would like to know how the rain was done though :) I'm new to all of this particle stuff.

Bobo
04-24-2004, 01:25 AM
Here is a new tutorial showing the basic steps to move objects using PFlow and a Script Operator.

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__MovingObjects.htm

Here is the result of the tutorial:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_MoveGizmos_02.mov

A user on the Discreet Support Forum asked about moving Helpers (Atmospheric Gizmos) using Particle Flow.
This tutorial creates a scene similar to Afterburn or the old PCombustion, but in this case PFlow controls the motion of scene objects that happen to be volumetrics. The same technique can be applied to lights, geometry, whatever you want to control...

Hope this will be useful for people that make their first steps in PFlow scripting.

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Bobo

The_Magician
04-24-2004, 06:07 AM
mmmm, nice Bobo.

How do you get particles to read an animation curve?

Like, for a basic example, lets say that there's a trail of particles being left behind a moving particle, and we want those that are spawned to have a life of.... 30 frames, variation 15.

How can you get these spawned particles to read the curve of the shape they are being instanced off? Also, seeing as these particles may have a longer or shorter lifespan then the total animation time fo the instanced shape (due to the 15 variations), is it possable to have the animation time scale itself to fit the life of the particle?

I know you can just tick "Animated Shape" in the shape instance operator, that just reads the curve of the initial shape. What I'm thinking of is to somehow tell the particles "The animation of your instanced shape currently is going to frame 30, but you have a particle life of 45 frames... so, mr. Particle, your animation curve will be the 30 frames of main shape, stretched over to 45 frames." And also, tell it to do the opposite if its a particle with only a life of say... 20.

Can you pull that one off?

Damm
04-24-2004, 07:51 AM
yeah the hair tut is amazing :)... I'm half brazilian and live in Sweden so i don't get to hear much brazilian and i love that language :D..


i have an other question for this great thread tho.

I want to make some sticky particles. I've manage to make them stick on the surface by using Collision and speed = stop in "Test True when Particles" - "collides".
In the next event i have a speed by surface with speed 0 so the particles will stick on the underside of things and just don't fall off. If i don't use the speed by surface they'll dripp but the won't stick on walls and such. They'll just slide off to fast.
I have a gravity force in the first event.

Well now you'd say that i have what i want cause they stick. But i want them to be dripping just a little. So how can i adjust the stickyness of the particles?

I've played with friction in my deflectors but that aren't helping. When i did that i didn't have the speed by surface on.

If i put a gravity force any other place than in the first event the particles just fly right through the objects.

i hope this was clear enough :)..
thnx

Reality3D
04-24-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by The_Magician

...
I know you can just tick "Animated Shape" in the shape instance operator, that just reads the curve of the initial shape. What I'm thinking of is to somehow tell the particles "The animation of your instanced shape currently is going to frame 30, but you have a particle life of 45 frames... so, mr. Particle, your animation curve will be the 30 frames of main shape, stretched over to 45 frames." And also, tell it to do the opposite if its a particle with only a life of say... 20.

Can you pull that one off?

You can do that if you control the age with a script, like I did when simulating a crowd system: http://www.telefonica.net/web/r3d/p_crowd1.avi

Bobo
04-24-2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by The_Magician
mmmm, nice Bobo.

How do you get particles to read an animation curve?

Like, for a basic example, lets say that there's a trail of particles being left behind a moving particle, and we want those that are spawned to have a life of.... 30 frames, variation 15.

How can you get these spawned particles to read the curve of the shape they are being instanced off? Also, seeing as these particles may have a longer or shorter lifespan then the total animation time fo the instanced shape (due to the 15 variations), is it possable to have the animation time scale itself to fit the life of the particle?

I know you can just tick "Animated Shape" in the shape instance operator, that just reads the curve of the initial shape.

This is easy (but you have to assign the mesh instance "by hand" in a script):

*Create a Cylinder01 with height 10 and radius 1, Height Segs 16, Sides 6.
*Add a Bend modifier and animate the Angle on frame 29 to 360 degrees (this gives you a donut on frame 29!)
*Create a default Particle Flow, delete the Rotation operator
*Add a Delete operator after the Speed Operator. Set to "By Particle Age" and Life Span 20, Variation 10
*AFTER the Delete Operator, add a Script Operator

Enter the following script:

on ChannelsUsed pCont do
(
pCont.useAge = true
pCont.useLifeSpan = true
pCont.useShape = true
)

on Init pCont do ()

on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleIndex = i
at time (30.0*pCont.particleAge.frame/pCont.ParticleLifespan.frame) pCont.particleShape = $Cylinder01.mesh
)
)

on Release pCont do ()


This code takes the age, the expected life span and calculates a normalized time (0.0-1.0). Multiplied by the length of the shape animation (30.0 frames) gives you the source time to extract the mesh from the cylinder.

Now if you play the animation, you will see that any particle that reaches the "donut" state (frame 29 of the cylinder) will be automatically dead within the next frame! (Similarities to the movie "The Ring" are completely intentional :))

This proves that the particles, no matter how long they live, always acquire the right shape from the 30 frames cylinder animation!

Even better - since the result of the time calculation is a floating - point number, we are actually subsampling the cylinder's animation. To prove this, slide the key from frame 29 to frame 1.
Now you have a Bend between frames 0 and 1 only.

Open the script and change the "30.0" to "2.0":

at time (2.0*pCont.particleAge.frame/pCont.ParticleLifespan.frame) pCont.particleShape = $Cylinder01.mesh

Play back the animation - you will notice that eventhough the cylinder is animated on two frames only, the particles will grab as many sub-samples as necessary to give you 20, 30 or whatever frames of shape animation!

Cool, eh? :cool:

Cheers,
Bobo

The_Magician
04-25-2004, 02:58 AM
All right! Kick ass script there Bobo!

Now, for the next step.... Getting the instanced shape to be from a list of multiple shapes.

So, I've got like... 10 different shapes. Is there a way to have PF randomly pick one of those 6, and use it for a particular particle, then it would randomly pick another one and use it for its particle, and so on and so forth. This way you would only need 1 position object operator and only one flow, instead of x amount of spawns going to different things for the shape variations.


(If your wondering, I'm trying to grow a garden here, and the shpare I'm trying to have fun with arte the plants and flowers.)

treed
04-25-2004, 03:15 AM
Actually on CD #3 with max 6 theres a perfect example for that garden thing your wanting to do. The directory is :\Version6Features\Scenes\Particle Flow\Spawning Flowers. Although I don't think they use any scripting.

The_Magician
04-25-2004, 03:34 AM
treed: Yeah, I took a look at that one. But if you lok at it, each flower is exactly the same, just given a random rotation. Its fine for that one, because the flower heads are all facing directly up. My ones cant do that, because mine flower heads are facing more forwards, and I need them all to be facing the same direction.
If I use the same flower all the time, then the stems are all exactly the same, and it doesn't look all that good.

hyenen
04-25-2004, 10:31 AM
-----------> The_Magician

it is possible just use a shaper instance.

1. group your objects.

2. assign a shape instance opereater to your pflow

3.pick your group as the particle geometry object.

4. under Seperater particles for pick group members and set it to pick (multi-shape random order)

and there u go;)

here is a very very basic scene

Breinmeester
04-25-2004, 03:38 PM
Allan, great mov! I like how the particles keep falling after impact, like the object is 'crumbling'. Is that script going to break up a mesh in shatters proceduraly? That would be very usefull even without your PFlow crash system (which is very impressive). I know a lot of people who have a hard time cutting mesh up for dynamics solutions. Doing it by running a script would be very cool!

Bobo, very cool steam! I was wondering if it would be possible to link volumetric helpers to particles ever since I saw that one guy do it with lights. Seeing Afterburn and ParticleCombustion I knew it would have to be possible, I just didn''t have time to dive into scripting just yet. Your stuff is very inspirational, so I hope to make that big leap soon. This stuff is great for steam, rocket smoke, moving clouds, etc. Makes you wonder why we can only instance mesh and not other objects like lights, cameras, dummies and volumetric helpers.

The_Magician, I think you can have the Instance Shape operator spawn mesh and it's childeren in random order. So you'd have to link the other possible meshes to the mesh that's instanced and amend the parameters in the operator.

KaMe
04-25-2004, 05:01 PM
So, I've got like... 10 different shapes. Is there a way to have PF randomly pick one of those 6, and use it for a particular particle, then it would randomly pick another one and use it for its particle, and so on and so forth.This way you would only need 1 position object operator and only one flow, instead of x amount of spawns going to different things for the shape variations.

Let me try this one ;)


on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
for i in 1 to count do
(
objarr = #($Box01,$Cylinder01,$Torus01,$Teapot01,$Sphere01,$Cone01) -- Here goes all your objects
a = pCont.particleID
while a > objarr.count do (a /= 2)
pCont.particleIndex = i
at time (30.0*pCont.particleAge.frame/pCont.ParticleLifespan.frame) pCont.particleShape = objarr[a].mesh
)
)


(If all your objects have the same name, you could use objarr = $YourObjName* as array)

This might not be the best way to do this, but it works :thumbsup: This is Bobos script, just some minor changes.

Bobo
04-25-2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by The_Magician
All right! Kick ass script there Bobo!

Now, for the next step.... Getting the instanced shape to be from a list of multiple shapes.

So, I've got like... 10 different shapes. Is there a way to have PF randomly pick one of those 6, and use it for a particular particle, then it would randomly pick another one and use it for its particle, and so on and so forth. This way you would only need 1 position object operator and only one flow, instead of x amount of spawns going to different things for the shape variations.


(If your wondering, I'm trying to grow a garden here, and the shpare I'm trying to have fun with arte the plants and flowers.)


This is rather trivial. The only thing you need is a random seed (to always get the same random distribution and no flowers jumping from particle to particle), and an array of source meshes.

I will put a tutorial together based on the previous script and will add the random shape code to it so you can try it with your garden...

Cheers,
Bobo

Bobo
04-25-2004, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Bobo
This is rather trivial. The only thing you need is a random seed (to always get the same random distribution and no flowers jumping from particle to particle), and an array of source meshes.

I will put a tutorial together based on the previous script and will add the random shape code to it so you can try it with your garden...

Cheers,
Bobo


Here are some spring gardening tests with a slightly improved script:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_GardenGrowing_320_02.mov


*I created a Box, a Cone and a Pyramid primitive.

*Animated using various simple modifiers like Bend, Wave and Squeeze to have some basic geometry to test with. All animations were 30 frames long

*The script allows the user to define an arbitrary number of source "flowers" and specify the amount of each in relative units plus the actual growth animation length in frames

*Then the script creates particles that have a random growing time (independent of the source animation, in this case between 5 and 40 frames). Also, each particle is assigned at birth time an integer pointing at the corresponding source mesh. The distribution of the "flowers" is based on the values mentioned in the beginning - the current test had 10% boxes, 20% Cones and 70% Pyramids. These values can be adjusted for different amounts and looks. The sum of the values must not necessarily be 100, but it is easier to understand when it is.

*I used the FLoat and Integer channels to store some data - the Float channel contains the desired growth time length of each particle, the integer channel stores the selected mesh index. This way, I am processing particles only at birth (Age=0) and never after that which makes the script much faster. (In my initial tests I had to assign the values on the fly all the time using a unique seed and it was much slower).

*After the script, I placed Scale and Rotation operators to get some more random look.

*To get the Spring Feeling inside, I set the Position Object operator to Selected Faces/Animated shape and used a VolumeSelect to define a growing selection that emits particles gradually along the surface. The map control can be used to get things like circular animated growth etc. I used a Gradient Ramp and just switched the mode:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_GardenGrowing_320_03.mov

Here is a MAX 5.1 file to play with:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_GardenGrowing_ByMap04.max

Cheers,

Bobo

Bobo
04-25-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Bobo
Here are some spring gardening tests ...



And here a Summer test - a Ball interacting with grass in the brutal way (I am sure someone somewhere asked for this already)...

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_SphereGrassInteraction_02.mov
(QuickTime, 15MB)

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Bobo

deetee
04-25-2004, 10:59 PM
Now that was majorly cool Bobo! I've always wanted to get time to get my grass that dynamic :) Maybe one day I will. Now Im stuck with Java programming *sigh* :)

JeffPatton
04-25-2004, 11:49 PM
I ran across a site and immediately thought of this thread. It's various video footage (high speed) of....well, all kinds of things. A firecracker blowing up a marshmallow, cigarette smoke, an ice cube shattered by a hammer, etc..

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/high_speed_video/

Apologies if this has been posted before. If it has, just let me know and I will delete this post.

Jeff

treed
04-26-2004, 12:26 AM
Wow, thats incredible stuff. Thanks a lot for think Jeff. :)

jason-slab
04-26-2004, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by Bobo
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_SphereGrassInteraction_02.mov
(QuickTime, 15MB)

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Bobo

sweet!, any chance of havin a look at the .max file?
again great work!!

|jason

Chris Thomas
04-26-2004, 12:39 PM
The example :\Version6Features\Scenes\Particle Flow\Spawning Flowers was done by myself. Its actually meant to show how you can use a texture to decide whether a flower will grow from a seed or not, in this case the ground was meant to maybe be broken up concrete and earth.

A number of interesting techniques can be derived from that example. All its doing is scattering the flowers and when they come to rest they are passed to a new event that derives their speed based on the surface they are on. That surface is textured and they use this texture to controll the magnitude of that speed.

Then a test is used, particle on white areas get a tiny amount of speed and go on to grow flowers (and their speed is set to zero).

Seeds with no speed go on to a new event where they do nothing (and their speed is set to zero).

Well.. using this technique and scripting you could do much more complex things i.e. test for various levels of speed. like this...

speed < .001 = dead seeds
speed >.001 but < .01 = daisies
speed >.01 but < .05 = Tulips
speed> .05 but < 1.0 = SunFlowers

or even have each section have a ratio i.e.

speed < .001 = dead seeds
speed >.001 but < .01 = 75% daisies, 25% Tulips
speed >.01 but < .05 = 75% Tulips, 25% daises
speed> .05 but < 1.0 = 75% SunFlowers, 25% Tulips

So that your areas of flowers are nicely broken up. This way you could paint a nice control map for your scene with shades of grey controlling the relative densities of flower types.

Damn Pflow is cool eh! :)

hamu73
04-26-2004, 03:05 PM
Can anyone help me out there...I'm trying to achieve a fairly realistic exhaust from a jet engine with all the fire and smoke, but I don't really come up with any good results...so how can I achieve this....I'm sure you all are capable of doing that and can help me
thanks

loran
04-26-2004, 03:45 PM
How much do u pay for this?

8D

yoni-cohen
04-26-2004, 05:51 PM
...bobo?

I had a try on the instanced animation using the at time aproach.
I wanted to know if you think we could use it to sample animated material properties like the flags of a gradient or other parts.

if it is possible then we could make much more non linear effects for dust, fire and sparks which will look unique no metter what.

using the builtin aproach of an animated clip striped since the birth of the particle is not as elegent...

worth a try.

amckay
04-27-2004, 12:22 AM
Brainmeester, yeah two scripts, one fragments it and assigns the pieces to a particle each, the second will shatter it.
All of that is relatively easy to set up with operators, although wanted to go about this 100% with code. Haven't had time to use pflow much as I'm doing a lot of non particle related stuff right now, and when I do use particles a majority is TP stuff.

I just spent a chunk of my weekend writing my own GUI outside of TP though so I can work with TP without necessarily "working with it" :) Which is speeding up my workflow to an extent.

There's so much stuff happening on the forums but no time to really read any of it right now :\ going to have to archive it all and play catch up one night this week - bobo's doing a nice job with all this scripting stuff, go bobo!

Was meant to finalize my DVD stuff down at NAB, although last minute plans changed so anyway sooner I get that signed over the sooner I can start telling people it's ready to be shipped :)
Will buy a pc soon and start churning out some more vid tuts, maybe some on TP too as I'm starting to get pretty heavy into it now.

Cheers,

Allan

OlegB
04-27-2004, 01:09 AM
Sorry, I didn't read the whole 40 like pages; maybe someone already answered this one:

>So, I've got like... 10 different shapes. Is there a way to have PF randomly pick one of those 6, and use it for a particular particle, then it would randomly pick another one and use it for its particle, and so on and so forth.This way you would only need 1 position object operator and only one flow, instead of x amount of spawns going to different things for the shape variations.<

I don't see a reason to use scripts for this situation. Shape Instance operator is able to use group members as particles. You can create a new group with all your 10 different shapes, turn On Group Members check box, and turn On Multi-Shape Random Order check box. And that's it! Not scripts whatsoever.

Thanks,
Oleg B.
--------------------
The Particle Caregiver

Breinmeester
04-27-2004, 10:37 AM
Allan, sounds amazing! Can't wait to see that in action.


Originally posted by hamu73
Can anyone help me out there...I'm trying to achieve a fairly realistic exhaust from a jet engine with all the fire and smoke, but I don't really come up with any good results...so how can I achieve this....I'm sure you all are capable of doing that and can help me
thanks

Why not use Bobo's script he posted a few pages back??

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__MovingObjects.htm

amckay
04-27-2004, 09:28 PM
Hey Oleg welcome to cgtalk ;)

yeah I'm using the group operator today for the first time since I ever touched pflow coincidentially, it was one of the simple yet cool features of pstudio back in the day :)

RE: DVD - yeah can't wait to get it out the door, it's been done for 5 months now just sitting on my HD. I'll be finalizing things next week hopefully, just hard to find time to sort things outside of work right now.

When I get a PC I'll start back on all that stuff again, right now just scripting and doing work related tasks in my spare time which can be not so fun at times.

Bobo
04-27-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by OlegB
Sorry, I didn't read the whole 40 like pages; maybe someone already answered this one:

>So, I've got like... 10 different shapes. Is there a way to have PF randomly pick one of those 6, and use it for a particular particle, then it would randomly pick another one and use it for its particle, and so on and so forth.This way you would only need 1 position object operator and only one flow, instead of x amount of spawns going to different things for the shape variations.<

I don't see a reason to use scripts for this situation. Shape Instance operator is able to use group members as particles. You can create a new group with all your 10 different shapes, turn On Group Members check box, and turn On Multi-Shape Random Order check box. And that's it! Not scripts whatsoever.

Thanks,
Oleg B.
--------------------
The Particle Caregiver

Hey Oleg,

Welcome to CGTalk!

I think the reason for using scripts was that each instance's animation had to be scaled differently. (In an example, there was a shape animated only from frame 0 to frame 1, while the scripted particles stretched this animation to any number of frames to get a random look).
I don't think there is a way to do this using Shape Instance - you gave us options to synchronize the animation time, but not to scale it. Or did I miss something?

Bobo
(In love with PFlow!) :bowdown:

OlegB
04-27-2004, 11:35 PM
Hey Allan and Bobo,

>Or did I miss something?<
No, Bobo, you didn't miss a thing. True, true, that's what the Script ops are for...

Oleg B.

amckay
04-28-2004, 04:37 AM
Hey guys just started on this before I went home tonight, kind of simple at this stage, especially the test I'm doing, but the idea is to have my selection of objects, and parray automatically create a particle at each one of their locations after putting them into an array and then locking the objects to the particles.
the idea down the line is to just have af loating script where I could tell an object to fracture it and then assign a name, which pflow then picks up and does it's bit.

Right now only thing I haven't done in pflow is just store the positions initially as I just manually fed it out to some nodes with "org" as their name. But that's an easy fix, that and read rotation/spin. which I'll do later this week when I have time.

like I said, kind of simple but should be useful for what I want to do.

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/ptest1.avi


birth script:

on ChannelsUsed pCont do
(
pCont.useTime = true
pCont.useAge = true
pCont.usePosition = true
pCont.useSpeed = true
)

on Init pCont do
(
slidertime = 0
global myarray = $sphere* as array
orgarray = $org* as array
for i in 1 to myarray.count do
(
myarray[i].position = orgarray[i].position
)
slidertime +=1
slidertime -=1

)

on Proceed pCont do
(

-- particlearray as array
if currenttime == 0 then
(
for i in 1 to myarray.count do
(
pcont.particleindex = i
pcont.addparticle()
pcont.particleposition = myarray[i].position
-- append particlearray particleindex
pcont.particleage = 0
)
)


)










// then it sends it to the next event (that's optional not necessarily compulsory)

on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
for i in 1 to count do
(
pcont.particleindex = i
myarray[i].position = pcont.particleposition
)
)

The_Magician
04-28-2004, 08:12 AM
wel, I made my garden, but somehow its going take me 3 days to render it? I dont know how that works. It all goes nicely until the flowers start to grow. But I'm not going to finish rendering it.
So I had to scrap that one, hehe, was due yesterday. Handed in a different assignment. But its all good now.
Atleast I learned a bit from it ehe?


But now I have a small bit of time off, so I can play with the demo version of Afterburn. YAY!

Does the demo version not have the explosion Daemon? Its got the explode.agt file that tutorial 3 says to use... am I just missing something? Its not anywhere under helpers...

Rens
04-28-2004, 03:13 PM
Ok, I'm currently modeling an animatable tree.

Basically I'm using Bobo's hairy teapot setup.

What I want to try is use that to position the leaves on a small branch, then use the same technique to position that branch on the tree.

Now I thought about animating it using flex (like in Bobo's scene some posts back), also using wind forces. The problem is that all the leaves/branches get the flex movement from the original one... that won't work with branches who are opposite of the original one as it will sway in the other direction.

- Is there a way to use something like Shape Copy instead of Shape Instance (if you know what i mean) so every particle will get its own Flex?

I could use something like scatter but that way I won't have all the pflow effects, like making leaves fall down or changing colour, etc.

Chris Thomas
04-28-2004, 04:35 PM
The way I first tried this was using a variety of animated branches i.e. the branches have animated bends applied, as do the leaves, and then I think I used pflow to scatter these branches as particles. It worked pretty well with the Max render and also with Brazil as I remember it, very encouraging. Sorry don't have any rendered examples of it here as it was an R&D peice for a client.

Now these days, I think with Zbrush2 things would be even cooler. i.e. being able to displace the living &*%&^ out of the tree and its twigs. In fact I am inspired to try this out . Just have to try and get some time on my friends Zbrush2 now :)

Chris Thomas

Rens
04-28-2004, 05:31 PM
Thanks for the info Chris :)

The idea is to get a totally procedural setup, so you'd only have to add a wind modifier and everything will follow accordingly.

Basically I'm just trying to create the quickest and most realistic way to make a tree in max using only free plugins :surprised

But what do you mean by using ZBrush? Making the tree itself or just the dispacement map? (no experience with ZBrush)

ESAD
04-28-2004, 11:30 PM
I have been trying to produce a realistic sun with boiling surface using particles. I can't seem to get what I am looking for.

Any suggestions? Have any of you tried this?

JasperCG
04-29-2004, 01:16 AM
I was just helping a student of mine do this the other day. In that case the sun was only about a 1/2 inch on the screen, so the detail wasn't high. I was using max 5.1, so no pflow, but you could probably adjust it.

Create a sphere and texture it appropriately for a sun. - lots of noise or electric maps.
Set up a Parray with sphere as emitter. I set the particles to be facing. The speed should be fairly low. The key to the effect is going to be alot of variation. Variation in particle size, speed, and life.
Make sure that the particles don't fly far off the sphere. In fact the particles should die just off the surface.

If you want, add a little glow effect.

Take a look at a very quick test:


Tim

tim_burningsun.max (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/index.php) tim_burningsun.avi (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/index.php)

ESAD
04-29-2004, 01:50 AM
That looks great! Thanks!

KMAnStudios
04-29-2004, 02:08 AM
I've done something similar. I'll have to dig it out, but it has coronal loops, solar mass ejections and minor surface puturbations. I think it has to do with what you're trying to produce and the look you're going after. Jesper's example is a lot more 'flamey' than mine, but b etween the two you can see how much difference approach can make.

i went in and did a quick recut of the original animation (1000 frames) and added a coronal condensation loop test to a zip file look for the file "Eric Suntests.zip" on the PFlow uploader.
Eric

ESAD
04-29-2004, 03:15 AM
KMAnStudios

That's a bit more realistic the coronal loops are awesome. That is exactly the thing I have been trying to get. Mind sharing how you did it?

KMAnStudios
04-29-2004, 04:30 AM
I hope you can wait till tomorrow night. I managed to find the animation, but I wanted to make sure you wanted the file before I took up space on the server. The machine it is on is doing some really heavy volumetric work overnight (and probabhly into tomorrow LOL) and I have a really busy day tomorrow, but will get it up as soon as I get home tomorrow night.

The computer works hard enough on volumetrics....i just don't want to make it go hinky by subverting resources while it's working...you know how MAX can get with it's memory.

Edit:
while you're waiting, here's some basic info. i used a lot of sources instead of feeding multiple events through a few sources. i was just more comfortable that way. there's probably over a half million particles on screen at any given moment. The coronal loops, solar mass ejections and such were modeled after real footage I found on the web...even that really big thing on the top left area is based on a real event. Keep in mind that when you are doing research that there are many ways we see the sun in media based on the filters used and the look is dependent of what they are trying to investigate on the sun...corona, sunspots, etc.
Most of the ejections were made using find target operators. The smaller fuzzy stuff on the edges of the Sun (and across the surface really) are particles controlled by a procedural material that is animated and this also controlled the color shifting on the surface. Most of the sources are optimized in position to work with camera angle as the original animation was a zoom in only and did not need to fly around the sun, so, when you look at the source positions, try to contain the laughter ;)
i hope this helps till you get the file tomorrow night.

Eric

ESAD
04-29-2004, 05:16 AM
Thanks Eric, very good info there. I have been messing around with it for a few hours and look forward to reviewing your file. I am trying to build an animation that has a sun nearing a black hole. I want it to look realistic and as it closes on the black hole, naturally some of the particles are sucked toward it and form a disk around the black hole which is also rotating :) All this and from multiple views (fly by)

Thanks for your help guys. Preash!

theotheo
04-29-2004, 02:13 PM
Just a silly question regarding the hairy teapot approach.

Bobo's idea worked great in every way except when working with deforming meshes. I dunno if this is just my setup but i've must have tried atleast 10 times with testing every way. But the particles (hair stands) seem to be stuck in a rotation axis, so the initial particles have the desiered position and rotation.
Animated shape/sub frame is all on.

the stack is is like this : Editable poly->physique->edit mesh

Any help on the subject is appreciated!

-theo

loran
04-29-2004, 02:23 PM
http://soho.estec.esa.nl/pickoftheweek/old/25oct2002/

strangeday
04-29-2004, 02:31 PM
Hi

Great threat !!

But i'm having some difficulties with this scene (upload) eh101_animn.rar - if anyone would have a look ... please !?
It should look similar to the picture in the .rar

Primary the materials is hard to tweak, but also the particle age on the spawn is givning me some headaches.

cheers,
strangeday

KMAnStudios
04-29-2004, 04:05 PM
The coronal loop and sun scens are up. Look for "Eric sunscens.zip". I did this a while back so it's a bit of a mess. I think it can be done much simpler now. I'd forgotten how many spacewarps and deflectors were a part of the overall workings. Have fun trying to de-construct it LOL....anyway, it ought to help you get a start.

Eric

Bobo
04-29-2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by theotheo
Just a silly question regarding the hairy teapot approach.

Bobo's idea worked great in every way except when working with deforming meshes. I dunno if this is just my setup but i've must have tried atleast 10 times with testing every way. But the particles (hair stands) seem to be stuck in a rotation axis, so the initial particles have the desiered position and rotation.
Animated shape/sub frame is all on.

the stack is is like this : Editable poly->physique->edit mesh

Any help on the subject is appreciated!

-theo

Theo,

I loaded the original Teapot, deleted the old animation, created a Biped in the middle of it, added Physique to the Teapot, Initialized it and got a "walking teapot" - of course, the hair remained where it was.
So I went and checked the "Animated Shape" checkbox is the Position Object Operator and the hair "walked" with the teapot.
Obviously, the hair dynamics were lost because the original hair object was linked to the teapot. Physique moves vertices without affecting the PRS of the skin object, so I had to link the original hair object to the Biped to get secondary dynamics again.
I even collapsed the Teapot to EPoly and replaced the MeshSelect with an EditMesh so I replicated your stack. It worked as expected!

There must be something special about your setup, but I have no idea what it could be...

Cheers,
Bobo

theotheo
04-30-2004, 10:44 AM
Bobo, i've tried and tried again . The dynamics and the position of the hair is ok but the rotation does not function correctly. Or atleast i don't get it to rotate properly.

Right now the head doesnt even have physique on it, the head is a seperate object to witch the hair are emitted from, and the head is linked to the bip.head along with the original hair stand.

www.euqahuba.com/temp/hair_test.avi (600kb divx3)

The white stand is the original hair, you can clearly see that it inherits the PRS of the bip.head. But the particles (gray) does not.
Is this perhaps because of the constant presence of the rotation operator?

I bet it's just a button that i forgot to turn on or off, it's always something silly :)

-theo

Bobo
04-30-2004, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by theotheo
Bobo, i've tried and tried again . The dynamics and the position of the hair is ok but the rotation does not function correctly. Or atleast i don't get it to rotate properly.
....

I bet it's just a button that i forgot to turn on or off, it's always something silly :)

-theo

Theo,

Could you please take a screenshot of your Particle View so I can see the flow you are using?
Does it match the flow described in the tutorial 100%?
Do you have Speed By Surface BEFORE the Rotation (Speed Space) operator?

Thanks.

Bobo

amckay
04-30-2004, 05:28 PM
Hey it's my birthday, who wants to go for a beer ? :)

hamu73
04-30-2004, 05:33 PM
Hey have a nice one Allan....would really like drink a beer with you...
cheers

amckay
04-30-2004, 05:39 PM
siggraphs good for beer :) I think I'm going to need my stomach pumped after siggy

yeah glad it's friday.... cause there's lots of beer to be drank today :)

Breinmeester
04-30-2004, 06:36 PM
Congrats, Allan! Have a nice one! Queensday over here and I've been working (must've been the only one!!) :hmm: Time to crack open a few beers!
:beer:

amckay
04-30-2004, 06:45 PM
Yeah I heard! One of my mates at Dreamworks is norwegian so I'm sure he's probably pissed he has to work today too ;)

Apparently I'm being taken to ribs usa for lunch.. better than the original plan, guys at DD wanted to drag my ass to outback steak house just to piss me off :)

I'm an old man now. I should start looking into retiring

MUCKE2k
05-03-2004, 02:44 AM
Hi

I`m trying to make an ocean

any idea on how to make foam around icebergs...

thx

by

loran
05-03-2004, 07:53 AM
Nice thread about alan's birtday!!
very interesting!!
Alan do u wash your socks today?
wich color is your pants???

I really think it s time to create THT ALAN's FAN CLUB

LOL

deetee
05-03-2004, 10:28 AM
@ Mucker2k : Cant you just scatter particles over the entire ocean plane, and make the iceberg into a deflector. So when the waves/water hits the iceberg it turns to foam or something?

amckay
05-03-2004, 04:36 PM
eep! bobo deserves the fan club :)
you don't want to know if I washed my socks, I went out friday night and didn't get home 'til 11pm sunday so it was a big night of partying :)

loran
05-03-2004, 05:07 PM
Really alan ??
greattttttttttttt!!

when could I find a "I love Alan MacCake" ??
I a m ready to spend money for a dirty pant or anything you wear and don't wash!!

PS:
do you sell your empty beer cans?

More seriously... Yesterday, I was cooking an apple Pie (I really like apple Pies!!) and after prepare 3 apples, I suddenly think that I only need 2 !!
So I eat the third one!!! Incredible.
Tell me if anyone interested about apple pies
thx

Great Thread

treed
05-03-2004, 08:06 PM
OMFG, this thread is getting better everyday. Now were talking about Allan's parties, and among other random stuff like pies. And YES loran, I'm interested in apple pies. Although those aren't my favorite. LOL, thats so cool that you made an extra pie and you ate the whole thing, hehe.:)

Breinmeester
05-04-2004, 08:33 AM
Is someone trying to make a point on all work and no play here?? Then make it and get back on track.

It did foam once with growing spheres and a top to bottom gradient in the opacity slot. Worked for distnace shots. You could have particles emited on a part of the ocean mesh and have them collide with the iceberg deflector to send them to a new event where you would create these groups of spheres. I think it would take a lot of tweaking for them to realisticly appear and dissappear and float away on the waves.

loran
05-04-2004, 10:11 AM
"Is someone trying to make a point on all work and no play here??"
That s what I trying to say.


I tryed to make foam
My problem was that I cant keep the particle emmited stick on the water animated mesh.
[http://forumel.free.fr/PF/Boat-foam00.max]

Breinmeester
05-04-2004, 12:27 PM
Yeah, I can recognize sarcasm when I read it. But it wouldn't be much of a nice community when you can't mention your birthday without a thread jack alert, now would it??

Nice foam! I'll try to make a good material for that if I can find some time tomorrow.

Cryptite
05-04-2004, 08:30 PM
Phew... Took me 2 days to read this incredibly huge thread but I gotta be trite and say this is one of the best threads on CGTalk i've come across thus far.

My question is directed to either allan of kame; whoever answers first. How did you guys script the particles interacting with particles pflow system. In kame's case (which is what i'm shooting for), the ships that are knocked down by the missiles. Just wondering how you did that... I'm trying to achieve that effect and I've got no clue.

I also have another question. Say you wanted to animate a whole bunch of ships flying around with Pflow. Is there any way to make them bank in their turns like with the PathFollow animator? Also, from what i've used of FindTarget so far, I notice that its hard to get ship-like animation where the turns are only so sharp; if you know what I mean. EG: having ships that, if following a sphere and they miss it, are able to make like 180 degree turns on a dime to get where they need to go... Is there any way to make those animations more fluid and realistic to those of ships turning (and banking).?

Thanks guys!

amckay
05-04-2004, 11:07 PM
you can get jets to 'steer' left and right if you set a rotation node and tell them to be based on speed. as for actual banking, it might require a bit of scripting, like if the rotation or velocity moves too much in direction N then rotate 10-20% in the X axis local to the particle? I'm taking a stab at it I'm too busy banging my head against the desk with thinking particles right now...

to get particles to interact, I haven't looked at KaMe's but you can make one system a mesher and a udeflector so they can interact, and tell them to do specific things based on collision with that (such as bullets hit a plane (bullets are deflectors) then blow up and have gravity) and such.
you can also use the keep apart operator to some extent.

sorry to make it breif, just hard to find time right now ...

WOOT!

Bezerker75
05-05-2004, 02:01 AM
this question is directed to Bobo, but maybe someone else could help me figure it out....
originally posted "Here is a new tutorial showing the basic steps to move objects using PFlow and a Script Operator.
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5...vingObjects.htm"
I was playing with this PF file that bobo has generously posted for the community and was wondering how to make the gizmos scale down after a certain age instead of sending it out to a delete all operator, so that the volume effects in the gizmos don't just pop off....any help would be greatly appreciated!

:beer:

DarkVIP
05-05-2004, 05:06 AM
well this might sound like a noob question, actually it is a noob question :hmm:

I have been following some tutorials for the past few days on max 6 particles and I think I learned quite abit from them but I do have one problem.

I couldnt find any tutorials on applying textures to the particles.

Can someone reply with a quick tutorial or point me in the direction of a tutorial for mapping, material dynamic, material frequency, material static.

It seems to be like everytime I try to do it nothing happens when I render it. btw, when I use afterburn on the particles it works great.

aliciaCunnie
05-05-2004, 09:38 AM
http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tutorial_spiders.html


http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/

here is some links to particle flow stuff

enjoy :P

Bobo
05-05-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Bezerker75
this question is directed to Bobo, but maybe someone else could help me figure it out....
originally posted "Here is a new tutorial showing the basic steps to move objects using PFlow and a Script Operator.
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5...vingObjects.htm"
I was playing with this PF file that bobo has generously posted for the community and was wondering how to make the gizmos scale down after a certain age instead of sending it out to a delete all operator, so that the volume effects in the gizmos don't just pop off....any help would be greatly appreciated!

:beer:

Well, actually, the same way I made them grow bigger :o)
You could create a function that, for half (or more) of the lifespan increases the size, and then decreases again...

For example,

My_Athmospheric_Gizmos_01[i].radius = sin(pCont.ParticleAge*180.0/50.0)*40.0

will give you a sine curve increase/decrease.
The 50.0 is the Age of death used in the Age Test.
The expression
sin(pCont.ParticleAge*180.0/50.0)
gives you numbers going from 0 to 1 and back to 0 while the age changes from 0 to 50 (the expression inside the sin() gives you an angle between 0 and 180 degrees which causes the 0-1-0 result).
40.0 is the maximum size at age of 25.




This is a similar function, but using a linear (triangle) function changing from 0 to 1 to 0 and thus changing the radius from 0 to 40 to 0:

ThePeriod = 50.0
My_Athmospheric_Gizmos_01[i].radius = 40.0 * Abs( 2*(Mod (pCont.ParticleAge+ThePeriod/2) ThePeriod)/ThePeriod - 1)


Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Bobo

Breinmeester
05-05-2004, 07:43 PM
I think it would look better if not the size is decreased over time, but the density, giving it more a sense of dispersion. How would we call upon this parameter in the script?

Man, that last pint of beer hit me right on the head. Is my English okay?

Bezerker75
05-05-2004, 08:06 PM
:bowdown:
sweet thank you so much Bobo....how does someone like myself learn more about particle flow scripting? I mean I see all you guys scripting away....the manuals that come with max sure don't go into that much detail about it...I would love to learn more about it any recommendations? thanks again!!:thumbsup:

Bobo
05-05-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Bezerker75
the manuals that come with max sure don't go into that much detail about it...

I know, I wrote them :)

The problem is when PFlow was developed, I had to both learn it and write the documentation. Obviously, I could not write much about stuff I had no experience with...

Later, as I learned more things myself, I started putting new tutorials on Boboland that have about the same format as the MAXScript Online Help.
Do you think it would be a good idea to include these online tuts in the next revision of the MAXScript Help?

Cheers,
Bobo

Bobo
05-05-2004, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Breinmeester
I think it would look better if not the size is decreased over time, but the density, giving it more a sense of dispersion. How would we call upon this parameter in the script?

Man, that last pint of beer hit me right on the head. Is my English okay?


Now this is tricky, because all gizmos use the same Fire Effect, and the density is controlled by the effect.

You would need 50+ Fire Effects in the Environment queue to be able to control their density separately. When you get to that point, it is probably easier to buy AfterBurn anyway... ;)

treed
05-05-2004, 08:44 PM
Do you think it would be a good idea to include these online tuts in the next revision of the MAXScript Help?

YES, definetely.

amckay
05-05-2004, 09:27 PM
yeah I think the advantage a few of us had was just being exposed to pflow much earlier than a majority of the rest of the users - so we had more time to experiment and learn a lot of the basics. At the same time it's just a matter of looking at some of the basic documentation to get the idea of how it all works - and basic knowledge of maxscript.

experimenting is the way to learn - hacking apart other peoples scripts and what not.
essentially it's just statements and loops, you basically have two areas the "create" area and the "runtime" area. so you tell your particles to do stuff once, or do it every frame etc.

Bobo's done a great job with documentation - just work out some basic stuff and keep taking it that extra step. a good exercise might be just creating particles and telling them to follow a sin wave or something.
also look at the default operators when they're created (birthscript and default script operator) as they have a generic script in there just showing the basics of how it all works, which is also outlined in more detail in the documentation.

Cryptite
05-05-2004, 10:16 PM
Hey Bobo, you got any idea on how to make my Pflow ships 'bank' as they turn as well as make only so sharp of turns. Doesn't look to realistic when the ships are able to completely stop and do a 180 in 5 frames... Is there a way to limit the sharpness of turning when following an object...?

Bezerker75
05-05-2004, 10:25 PM
I think the tutorials that have been posted in this thread,and the tutorials on a few of the community members sites have been an amazing source of help, and also the people in this community rock...seems like everyone is always willing to give imput and help out where they can. which is just awesome! guess i will just have to learn more about max scripting...dive in head first and start experimenting...and if i have problems it's always good to know there is a great community of people in here that can help out in the learning process!!! does anyone know about classes for max/particle flow scripting? I think I would get more from a class or a video than just trying to figure it out on my own, due to the fact that I have very little understanding of maxscripting, or and coding for that matter, but i see all the cool stuff everyone is writting and it inspires me to want to learn more, and hopefully someday be able to help others that are just starting out with scripting...anyway thanks again! and you all rock!

treed
05-05-2004, 10:29 PM
Bezerker75, Allan will have a DVD coming out covering a lot of pflow/scripting. The whole thing is 15 hours of content but I don't know how much maxscript stuff there is.

amckay
05-05-2004, 10:48 PM
yeah if that friggin Allan ever releases it!
Bout to sign something and hopefully will ship in June.
I try to cover a bit of maxscript here and there whenever possible and I do try and delve fairly indepth with the DVD covering a chunk of scripting here and there - although I don't want to make it all scripting as that's the beauty of pflow that you're not dealing with paragraphs of code, you're dealing with events :)

I'm ordering a computer for home tomorrow, so will hopefully be able to make some new tutorials soon for my site, as well as put up a new professional allanmckay.com opposed to the current POS site I have up right now.

Bezerker75
05-05-2004, 10:52 PM
well Allan you can certainly put me on the list of people that will deffinately buy it!:beer:

Breinmeester
05-14-2004, 03:39 PM
Okay, I wasn't here the last few days, but could we repost what was lost due to the server restore?

neods
05-14-2004, 04:00 PM
It's a shame what happend.. damn those haxors..

I have a question. I have created a snow emitter that is upon a forest i have created. I created a geometry deflector and set the ground to be the the geometry for it, but as you could imagine, it got slow as hell. So my question is how should i do this, what i want is slowly falling snow in a forest, can i somehow make the snow fade away before it hits the ground? any ideas?

Thanks..

And I'm glad that CGtalk is back on track..

amckay
05-14-2004, 04:41 PM
cgtalk was down? :)

Yeah I've been doing nothing but snow it seems for the last year... ack...

what you can do is have a deflector above the ground and tell it not to effect the particles, just 'continue' and then tell the particles to delete based on particle age from that point. you might need to do something tricky like either have a script operator to reset the particle age, or else have them spawn and delete the parent (a hack which is easier for non scripters) so the particle resets the particle age.
the advantage is that rather than delete them, they can scale down over their age and then delete too to make it more subtle, or even use particle age material to fade off.

Snow in large volumes can get very very slow, we're working on a huuuuuge timelapsing shot of four seasons right now that has all that kind of stuff, and the snow was having memory errors when rendering the buckets so I had to do some of that stuff in scanline.

Basically work at 1% of your particles count but at rendering time render the 100% out. Do a trick like what I was doing where I have 3 pf_source nodes all that feed into the same system, just different position nodes, which I just changed the seed for. Then I rendered out the each pass with the different seeds and we put them back togeather in comp, to get a larger volume without having to do it all in one go.

Allan McKay

amckay
05-14-2004, 04:46 PM
Actually what's up with what you guys were saying about the crash or whatever?

I have a bunch of private message notifications sent from cgtalk today but I logged in and seems the PM's are actually missing a few of even the most recent ones let alone the new ones... just curious.

Rens
05-14-2004, 04:51 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=142548 ;)

Nasty, that.

neods
05-14-2004, 05:36 PM
Thanks Allan.. I have a few questions again. First of all, if i have a shape operator, can i somehow set them to variable sizes? and the second thign is that i have my graphic mode set to DirectX, and I can't see any particles on the perspective viewport, but I can see them on the other ones and when I change the settigns to wireframe I can see the particles once again, is this in the settings or something?

Thanks again..

amckay
05-14-2004, 06:48 PM
Sure, apply a scale operator and then you can apply some variation to the size.

RE: DirectX, there 'may' be some options to remedy this, although usually they're driver issues, make sure you have the latest drivers and look around in your display under the contron panel for options that may cause this. Ultimately though working in openGL or software (heidi) can sometimes be the greater solution, especially when working with particles. I personally use software just as it draws a little faster with large particle counts and avoids some of the reoccuring issues such as garbled display when drawing large clusters of particle points etc. Although obviously you miss out on a lot of the neater features that hardware acceleration brings to the table when dealing with high density models and shaders in the viewport etc.

Pongo
05-14-2004, 09:11 PM
I have a question about the smoke dispersion effect.

I went through the example Alan has on this. (Please hurry with those DVDs!) and I have the motion where I want it to be.

My question is regarding the rendering of these effects. Ideally I want each particle to be <=1 pixel in size, but that requires a ton of particles. Not so bad at D1 resolution, but if I wanted to do this at an HD resolution I'm not sure I can.

Are there any other rendering tricks to make this a little easier on the CPU, especially at HD res?

Thanks

amckay
05-14-2004, 09:34 PM
You can do a few things, one is make an instanced shape that actually is either a sprite with a lot of dots moving around within it, or else even geometry that is made up of several different mesh pieces. Essentially faking the amount of particles in there.
Otherwise you can get your particle system and make a mesher compound object of it and have that slightly offset a few times to help build up the count, or as I said about the snow make several pf sources and have them all have different seeds, rendered out and composited back togeather.

Ultimately you're restricted to >2million particles a majority of the time. You can go much higher, but you're risking running out of memory.

I had a big discussion on this topic with The Orphanage over email as they were trying to tackle some large particle count fx shots for a show and were running into this exact problem.

There's also the possibility of using a point renderer, although I don't know of any publically available, as most are propriatary at this point, but I know of some studios getting up to 18 billion particles to render in a couple of minutes.
Check out ImageSavant.com for some cool particle rendererings that are similiar, although not within max.

But particle counts are a pain in the butt to exceed certain counts.
Multistreak in maya works kind of well to fake this.

jlelievre
05-14-2004, 09:58 PM
All I can say about rendering a lot of particles is become good friends with Cache. :) In one sequence we were trying to create dust and debris and found that 1.4 million was around the limit we could safely render out without any memory issues. It takes some massaging to get a million particles to behave without the aid of a point renderer. But thanks to some caching suggestions by Allan (beers in order) all rendered well. :)

amckay
05-14-2004, 10:58 PM
Siggraph I'll be buying you guys some beers, you're churching out some great work over there ;)

Yeah pflow is a great product although there are limitations when jumping into film as you can really only go so far without running into various restrictions that all particle systems have.
Although still even a year or two ago someone doing a million particles would usually call for some serious hardware as only some systems (such as hookah, dreamquest/secret lab owned) was around to churn out large counts back in the day. So it's great to see generic particle systems in most 3d packages can handle the load.

Like I said, point renderering is the bomb for that kind of stuff, and when you throw some serious programmers at it you can start to get some amazingly fast and kick-butt results.

Intrinsia - was that stuff for hellboy btw? I know you guys had a few different projects going at the same time, I forget who else I was talking to at the time but it seemed like a few people were having their own individual pflow problems ;)

jlelievre
05-14-2004, 11:12 PM
Hellboy it was. :) Mainly the bridge sequence; doing all of the dust and stone bits while it was crumbling away. Lots and lots of Pflow in there. Yes it would be nice to have that point rendering ability...I can only dream for now I guess.:D

amckay
05-14-2004, 11:55 PM
There's 'A' studio doing some KICKBUTT stuff with point rendering with pflow right now, but they're being very quiet about it all right now, but it's pretty damn amazing what they're able to output. Definitely far better than anything I've come across on a package specific platform.

RE: Hellboy, Yeah I figured it'd have been for the bridge sequence, great work ;)

since I came over to DD I've been having to do a majority of my stuff in TP opposed to pflow, which is a tad frustrating at times since I'm not able to spend nearly as much time in pflow anymore, doh!

Happy Friday guys, hope everyone has a good weekend ;)

-Allan

The_Magician
05-15-2004, 01:11 AM
WOW! ImageSavant.com How do they get such trippy images? The colours are AWESOME!!! As soon as I get these damn assignments done, I'm going to figure it out.

I guess you could use a fow something like: Hit this deflector and you'll go to this event where everythign is just the same, 'cept you've got a different texture colour

But that would kinda have sudden jumps on the colours. Well, when I have time to figure it out, I shall.

amckay
05-15-2004, 02:09 AM
imagesavant was a proprietry particle renderer, it's basically just a bunch of wierd algorithms driving the particles, all of that stuff 'is' possible in max, although the spacewarps you have are pretty bland in some scenarios.

woot, got my computer today ;)

DarkVIP
05-15-2004, 02:21 AM
Sorry for going off topic but what are the specs for your computer? and cost if you dont mind telling?

amckay
05-15-2004, 03:05 AM
hah
um 3.2ghz copertone? I think.. 1 gig ram, ddr, dvd burner.. usual specs, $1000 ex. monitor. which was $170 at best buy for a samsung 19". I didn't get anything special as I'll probably have to turf it in a few months and I'm sick of having to rebuy everything all the time. so just got what I needed to get stuff done at home.

so pretty cheap. cards a radeon 9700 XT 256mb.. where's half life 2 when you need it? :)

MUCKE2k
05-16-2004, 07:12 PM
Hi

any idea for a realy big water splash?

like a rocket\uboat coming out of an ocean...

I can`t get nice results


thx

treed
05-16-2004, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by MUCKE2k
Hi

any idea for a realy big water splash?

like a rocket\uboat coming out of an ocean...

I can`t get nice results


thx



Kinda like this? http://www.particlefx.com/animation/comet-impact-no-sound.mov

MUCKE2k
05-16-2004, 09:15 PM
Yes
but without explosion...

Breinmeester
05-17-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by amckay
There's 'A' studio doing some KICKBUTT stuff with point rendering with pflow right now, ...

Hi Allan. Could you tell me what the basic principle behind a point renderer is? What is it, what does it do and how does it work?
Also, is this studio planning on selling it?

amckay
05-17-2004, 05:06 PM
ah crap.

um - the first q... basically opposed to rendering geometry etc. a point renderer will just read the particle information and zdepth and create pixels wherever a particle is in world space. That's the easiest breakdown of what it does. So it can render at an uber fast. It's not hard to write one, I'm sure someone will write a publically available free one. It's just handy for doing lots and lots of particles basically that do not rely on textures.

Although you can get fancier with writing motion blur and even textures in there. Controling the filter/additiveness of the pixels is the huge feature as you can make lots of particles and make them really transparent but rely on the filter to make them stand out, so you can get some nice smokey effects that really look sexy and the stray particles tend not to show up.

DarkVIP
05-17-2004, 05:15 PM
I have a quick question about your dvd allan.

Will they have example max files as well as the tutorials to go along with them?

amckay
05-17-2004, 05:22 PM
yep, I'll sign the contracts today and get it out... ack..

um yeah it has max files for most of the tutorials, as well as an additional 25+ max files of other stuff and scripts etc.

Breinmeester
05-17-2004, 06:54 PM
AH, thanks for clearing that up. I figured something like that. I guess that technique is used for particle passes only as it doesn't seem quite efficient for geometry. I won't ask about the studio anymore.;) :D

Wizdoc
05-18-2004, 07:30 PM
I don't want to hijack this thread or anything, but I downloaded all the tutorials on Allan's site and I didn't get the waterdrop one working at all. Others work fine, just that one doesn't play the video (sound works, though).

So, Allan, what codec did you use to encode it? I'm fairly sure I have the latest DivX/XviD/etc. codecs in place.

EDIT: The reason I posted this here and not send a PM was that maybe someone else who got the video to work might share the information on what video codec it uses (it shows blank in video when I check the properties).

EDIT #2: After some creative browsing, I did manage to dig up the tag of video codec. It's called TechSmith Screen Capture Codec, and it's not part of the usual MPEG-4 or other codec packages. If you have trouble playing back the tutorial file like I did, you can grab the appropriate codec here:

http://www.techsmith.com/products/studio/codec.asp

amckay
05-18-2004, 08:00 PM
Hey I believe that one is using techsmith camtasia
go to techsmith.com and under downloads you'll find the codec.
I'll be putting up a propper allanmckay.com quite soon, so I'll have links to all that stuff as well as additional tutorials.

Started doing some R&D again with Afterburn the other night and I've made some really big progress with building really nice CG fireball shaders, I've actually got close to ten completely different CG fireball shaders that really stand up quite nicely that I'll try and post soon as I clean them up a little bit. Although dumb particle simulations for fireballs aren't really the coolest newest thing these days as fluids seem to be taking over in that area.

actually... whilst on the topic, when I put up a new 3dluvr/machette and allanmckay.com anything people want to see more specifically? people want more text based tutorials or they dig video tutorials? people like scenes? shaders? links?

Basically will be starting to build a large resource for all that kind of stuff - both for max and maya right now.

treed
05-18-2004, 08:40 PM
Hahah nice, getting into AB again ehh? :) I can't wait to see your AB fireball shaders. Are you using the explode deamon for them?


We dig video tutorials! Actually thats one of the best ways I learn from, but written ones will do fine too. Dude, posting scenes, shaders, and other resources would be sweet. It would help people understanding how you the effect is put together.

Also Allan, I'm making an tornado and I need your help on it. I'm doing it in AB but I can't get it looking the way I want. I'm trying to mimic Brandon's tornado he did. http://www.particlefx.com/animation/F5Tornado.mov. I think I may have to restart a lot of mine because I wasen't paying attention to the scale and I have my AB sphere radius at 550 and 330. So its taking a rediculous ammount of time to render. If you can, take a look at my scene and see if you can see how I can fix my scaling issue. http://www.queensoul.com/~tylerreed/tornado06.max

Cheers :beer:

Rens
05-18-2004, 08:44 PM
Allan:

Besides a new layout for your sites? (I think allanmckay.com actually has a better layout than the machette one (NOFI) ;))

Video tutorials are the best ofcourse as they clearly show you what to do step by step and visually.
About adding the scene, there's ofcourse the argument that the tutorials are there for you to learn from and when you supply the scene file it's like supplying answers to a test. It depends on the person if he takes it or not, but it might be something to think about.
Personally I think adding scenes is a good idea because you can study the tutorial result in your own time and more in depth.

But could you post a picture of those fire balls if possible?

KMAnStudios
05-19-2004, 02:56 AM
Video Tuts are good since it is much harder to leave anything out. When writing tuts it's wasier to leave a step out because of the internalization of the process. With the video...it has to work or it's just not a tut ;)

Eric

Breinmeester
05-19-2004, 05:54 PM
I like video tuts better too, but make sure the compression isn't too high so we can read everything. Most important thing in tutorials, IMHO, is to not only know what to do, but also why you do it.

Breinmeester
05-19-2004, 05:54 PM
EDIT: Sorry, double post.

hamu73
05-19-2004, 10:09 PM
is to not only know what to do, but also why you do it
yep that's true...In a video tut you can explain it much better and everybody can follow along .... In my opinion you can remember it much better if you can see and hear it....well but you should be able to read everything:)

keep up the good work

amckay
05-19-2004, 10:17 PM
yeah I prefer video tuts as they take up less of my time and allow me to cover a lot more. Plus I can recycle half the stuff I do at lectures/shows etc. with minimal work :)

The current allanmckay.com was made purely to put those POS vid tuts up, although with the intention of being used for the DVD upon it's release, so I'll be revamping it within the next week or so. I might have already mentioned this last post I'm not sure.

Yeah will post the fireball stuff, it's all at home where I don't have net access so have to lug my external HD in here.

RE: Treed yeah been using AB constantly for projects up until coming to DD, just been doing some R&D at home again for some pyro stuff. Not doing any 'particle based' volumetrics at work only particle stuff and fluids stuff right now. Will try and check out your max scene, don't have afterburn installed on my box right now...
Tyler, one thing to keep in mind is use vortex and keep the motion fairly simple, just revolving, get most of the look from the shader. Try to keep your sphr radius around 150, 500 it'll probably render quite slowly. Try having multiple passes, like debris and dirt etc. floating around.


wizdoc, thanks for posting the url for others. I'll definitely take note for people to download the techmith codec, as it's being used more and more these days.

DarkVIP
05-19-2004, 11:59 PM
I was meaning to post this earlier.

If anyone is having a difficult time finding out what codec you need to view a video, download gspot. The main website is located at http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

Divx also has the url and information about the app.
http://www.divx-digest.com/software/gspot.html

Some information about GSPOT:

● Establishes what video codecs (audio and video) are required to play an AVI file.
● Determines whether these codecs are installed on your system.
● Isolates problems associated with these codecs.
● Simple operation - Basic use: "File > Open", then read results

● Win95/98/ME/NT/2K/XP
● No Install (optional), No spyware, No advertising, No registration
● Free

dell
05-20-2004, 02:29 PM
Thought this would be the best place to post my question,

I always see loads of particle effects within video games, i.e smoke, dust the usual. But I never seen posting within the games industry for FX artist or particle effects people, am I wrong or do poistions of this kind exist, cheers.
:hmm:

DarkVIP
05-20-2004, 03:08 PM
I am not sure, I guess it would depend on the game engine.
I know that Max Payne you can create your own type of particle fx.

amckay
05-20-2004, 04:20 PM
yeah to cut it short, usually programmers handle the particle effects as its never a creatives task. Although these days as particles are getting more and more cooler in game, there are in house tools being built etc. to let artists design some cool effects.

Some places actually tie a lot of the aspects of max into their engines, so in some circumstances people will build their effects in max and once they're approved, they'll be mimic'd within the engine or directly ported over in some cases.

C&C generals has some brilliant particle effects, primarily the huge nuke - that's a great example of when you're going that extra step and focusing on your effects looking 'good' instead of average.

deetee
05-20-2004, 07:15 PM
Some years ago I worked on the quake 1 engine, and my main focus was infact particles. They have always facinated me. I even used particles to simulate LensFlares, like this ->

Lens Flare faking with Particles (http://home.online.no/~quaker/netchild/main/pics/quadflare.jpg)

Shalrath smoke (http://home.online.no/~quaker/netchild/main/pics/shalrathglow.jpg)

Lazer flare (http://home.online.no/~quaker/netchild/main/pics/newlasertrail.jpg)

Rocket exhaust (http://home.online.no/~quaker/netchild/main/pics/corona.jpg)

Rocket Explosion (http://home.online.no/~quaker/netchild/main/pics/ohno.jpg)

Lightning Gun (http://home.online.no/~quaker/netchild/main/pics/lightning2.jpg)

I basically think that in game companies that most programmers makes the particleeffects and the artists help out in the deal. They do afterall make the textures for the effects, and have a pretty basic thought of how it should look. I bet there are some artists who can make kickass particles by programming them. I tried my best, but I used like 2 years to get them this way, so I am far from a talented programmer :D

But developing a new quake engine using the quake source was fun. Still have the source for it if anyone is interrested in a copy.

amckay
05-20-2004, 09:13 PM
Hey DeeTee that's great work!

Yeah I've got a mate over at Blur who's doing some stuff on TeneBrae? Just doing some major extensions to the quake 1 source. It's pretty cool from the stuff he's showed me, I think he has some screenshots up at www.willihammes.com.

I originally did some funky stuff for Team Fortress 2 (now the multiplayer side of Half Life 2 which.. will...eventually...come..out...) but my stuff was more on the animation side but had to work around a lot of the limitations of the then early engine for getting things like the sentinels to morph and other crap like that, so it's interesting having to work under a lot of restrictions yet still with the goal of being a lot more ambitious than what the engine can do ;)

I do that even today, but it's with using buggy beta software and trying to get it not to break ;)

dell
05-21-2004, 07:57 AM
Hi Allan,


Do you know of any reason why pflow would start updating itself while rendering, I'm having a major problem at the moment, as I can't render out my animation because of the constant updating by pflow. I've shown my pflow tree to Oleg and he sees no problem there, and I have turned off my auto backup set-up, but still no joy. The updating always seems to occur in the same place during the render and slows down to almost stopping.

I have used a cache and I have also ran a check update to see where the system is slowing down it seems to be when the particles are spawning, but not at a great number, I'll try and attach the scene file, but it is a bit big even when zipped, thank you.



P.S I'm also using 2x glows and am rendering via Video Post

File to Big:cry:

dell
05-21-2004, 12:36 PM
Hi all


Well I found it had something to do with the final event, which was spawning the particles. I think it could also have something to do with the scale of the scene.

I'm going to keep trying until I find a reason for this as it's bugging the hell out of me.

I have attached the file on the discreet/Particles forum as I'm not able to here, for anyone interested, thank you.:shrug:

deetee
05-21-2004, 01:12 PM
Why dont you just upload it to the PF uploader I have set up?

Look below this text on how to upload :thumbsup:

dell
05-21-2004, 01:17 PM
Thanks a lot Deetee


The file is up there now "Dell_render_error" thanks again.


:thumbsup:

amckay
05-21-2004, 04:46 PM
cool will have a look tonight or else over the weekend (2 weeks left on blade, so getting pretty busy unfortunately).

Been doing some cool new pflow rnd with getting different particle systems to interact - haven't been bringing my laptop in for some time now so it's a lot harder to bring my work in (no net access at home) but the idea is that I've got two sets of jet fighters firing missiles at eachother blowing eachother up, completely automated, it's a bit of a hack, but a lot better than how I initially did that early AA gun stuff as this is a lot more accurate.

Hey good news I guess... I have the mater here of my DVD about to get sent off for mass production/distribution :-) So it's right around the corner now! Sorry for this taking so long, been stuck with work and travel which has made things take a lot longer than they should have.

hamu73
05-21-2004, 04:51 PM
hey pretty cool there Allan....two good news in one post:buttrock:

Your new PFlow stuff sounds really awesome...do you make any videotut about it?? would like to see this one...really nice

and your DVD will rock the world...looking forward to having it in my hands

Archtic
05-21-2004, 06:06 PM
Hi,

I'm doing a bit of work with PFlow, and have struck upon a bit of a problem..

I'm trying to make a whole series of flows that repel/attract each other, and have had mixed succes. My latest effort involves using a mesher object on a flow, and then using a Udeflector on the mesher, so that i can test when two flows interact with each other. However, the collision test doesn't see the Udeflector in its selection list.

So, nada interaction between flows.

Any ideas as to whats wrong? Am i barking up the wrong tree on the whole interaction front?

Any advice greatly appreciated. (And looking forward to the Tut DVD!)

amckay
05-21-2004, 09:38 PM
yeah getting seperate systems all to acknowledge eachother 'right now' in pflow is a pain in the arse.

what you might want to do is either focus on keep apart operators (there's restrictions to an extent) else you could write something so that each particle tracks an object or deflector to it, there's various things that you can do.

but lets say you wanted deflectors on every particle... you could write a simple script to create the deflectors...
lets say 30 particles...
"
for i in 1 to 30 do
(
sdeflector name:(uniquename mydeflectors_01)
)

mydeflectors = $mydeflectors_* as array
"

then...

in the script operator put under the runtime (I can't remember what it is in max.. the animation one (heh sorry too many margaritas at lunch)

"
count = pcont.numparticles()
for i in 1 to count do -- count being the value of 30
(
mydeflectors[i].position = pcont.getparticleposition i
)
"



THAT in THEORY should work.

that basically
will tell each deflector to sit on the particle. Then you can tell the particles to deflector or tell other particles to go into other events.. whatever..
this at least is better than using mesher as it's a lot more accurate. You might want to adjust the sdeflectors radii or tell your particles to sample every half frame or something.
Same thing can be done with objects so find target or other things can recognize them as objects.
The idea is that this way it's cleaner and more accurate.
If you want to adjust the sdeflectors's radius later...

mydeflectors.scale *=2 will double the size (multiplies by 2)
and so on, so easy to adjust them all as they're all in an array.

hope that helps a lil. Deflectors was just my example, there's other stuff that you can use to repel particles from eachother...think about it... like winds with large decays and strong strenghts etc...

It can slow down with lots of particles, as it has to shoot a lot of point3 information back and forth, but you can always just turn this on at preview/render time etc.

hope that helps!

-Allan McKay

loran
05-24-2004, 08:05 AM
You can use Keep apart too
As in the example I share earlier in this thread
here it is
[http://forumel.free.fr/collision01.max]

This works for repeal but I don't try to create flow attraction.
Anyone has an idea to do that???

loran
05-24-2004, 10:17 AM
fine avatar picture dell
It s so fun to use Ultra stupid references as personnal avatar eheheh
u beat my SpongeBob
:thumbsup:

dell
05-24-2004, 11:09 AM
"It s so fun to use Ultra stupid references as personnal avatar eheheh"


Yo watch it!!! he's my Hero

:D


P.S Cheers for looking a that file Alan, it was driving me mad.

amckay
05-24-2004, 04:36 PM
hey dell.. have I looked at it yet? if not I'll look at it today, sorry this weekend went a little pearshaped so between work and not being at work I didn't have much time to check anything non work related. will try and get around to it today.

amckay
05-25-2004, 01:07 AM
sorry haven't had a look at your scene up until now - things here are quite busy.

yeah this is really strange as to why it's stuffing up. I noticed that it dies in the butt after it starts emitting particls (from frame 395) this is to do with your spawn node's facing particles being aligned to that camera, it could be a bug I'm not sure but basically if you create any other new camera it seems to work fine.

I'm not sure if that's your error, I haven't had the time to render it out although the scene runs rediculously slow when emitting when the facing particles node is told to follow that camera, it could be cause of the animation curve or not sure, but anyway that's your problem right there it seems.

hope that helps, yeah it's a wierd thing to happen. I'd look into it further but director comes in tomorrow so banging my head against the wall with getting dynamic sims not to break at the moment :\

-Allan McKay

yoni-cohen
05-25-2004, 01:15 AM
hey,
we`ve been having slowdowns with facing particles as well it seems like the new system which can take any object as a target which is great for using its rotation later on is rather slow for simple facing oparation when you need planty of those.

I shell try and see if an instanced shape with a local lookat on an xform works better but still the facing performence is realy bad.

dell
05-25-2004, 07:50 AM
Thanks a lot Allan


I really appreciate the input.

I work on my own within my studio at work, so it’s nice to have people on-line to help out. I was under the impression that I had made some basic set-up error, but it seems not. Anyway I have binned the spawned particles node, which has resulted in a fully render animation, so thanks for the input lads!!


P.S yoni-cohen seems like there could be a common problem with facing particles, or maybe even errors occurring using helpers or cameras, might no have anything to do with Pflow?



:hmm: :thumbsup:

Bercon
05-25-2004, 08:56 AM
Is it possible to scale particles using grayscale map on object? If it isn't possible without scripting then how could it be done, since I'm not good at all when it comes to writing pflow script.

dell
05-25-2004, 08:59 AM
Here's a sneak peek at some of the new operators for Particle Flow that are currently under development.

http://www.particleflowtools.com/TeapotNanoCreation.avi


Or go to the discreet/Particles forum

:D

P.S Those operators have been developed by Oleg Of Orbaz.

amckay
05-25-2004, 10:03 PM
dell is that stuff that your company/studio are developing?
looking great!

*EDIT*

Nevermind... was just asking cause I thought that looked very friggin similiar to some tools olegs developing... but of course it actually is them ;) so guess cats out of the bag.

dell
05-26-2004, 07:31 AM
Na I wish I was developing them, sorry I should have mentioned that it was developed by oleg, which is why I referenced the discreet website.

:blush:


They should by out before the next release of Max, I'll keep my ear to the ground.
:drool:

Aurorae
05-26-2004, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by dell
Here's a sneak peek at some of the new operators for Particle Flow that are currently under development.

http://www.particleflowtools.com/TeapotNanoCreation.avi


Or go to the discreet/Particles forum

:D

P.S Those operators have been developed by Oleg Of Orbaz.


omgomgomg *faints*

They look really cool! Any idea when the update is going be released?

EDIT: Not being develpoed by discreet, Orbaz technologies. Ah well.

amckay
05-26-2004, 04:46 PM
yeah sorry I quickly jumped on my own email about that as I thought they looked very familiar so was wondering if there was a plugin out there that did exactly what his does ;) (sorry late day heh). yep Oleg Bayborodin is the man

Not sure what I can say about the product, apart from it's very cool :)

hamu73
05-26-2004, 08:24 PM
I have a prob, everytime I add a shape instance into an event and then I want to pick my shape max crashes...well it's a big scene and I can't do all again....what's the prob??
thanks

The_Magician
05-27-2004, 02:44 AM
hamu73: I had a big scene and tried to use a shape instance. I found that I had to go to the beginning of the pflow THEN add in the shape instance. Otherwise the flow has to try and update itself to fit in the new operator, and cause your using a shape instance the poly count can go up quite a bit (it was in my case anyway).

So... yeah, go to the beginning of the flow, THEN add in the shape instance and pick your shape.

See if that helps.

Bobo
05-27-2004, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by The_Magician
hamu73: I had a big scene and tried to use a shape instance. I found that I had to go to the beginning of the pflow THEN add in the shape instance. Otherwise the flow has to try and update itself to fit in the new operator, and cause your using a shape instance the poly count can go up quite a bit (it was in my case anyway).

So... yeah, go to the beginning of the flow, THEN add in the shape instance and pick your shape.

See if that helps.


Another thing you can do is click the lightbulb icon of the PFlow Source to disable the complete flow, perform any operations you want (it will not update as it is disabled), then turn it on again. If you are on a later frame, it will have to recalculate (or re-cache if you have a cache operator), but this way you can add/delete/change multiple operators without any updates until you are done.

blesson2k
05-27-2004, 07:45 AM
Anyone here used BlobMod with PFlow in max 5.1? I cant get it to work. crashes everytime.:(

Aurorae
05-28-2004, 06:53 AM
Hey Allan how are those fireball (s) coming along?

amckay
05-28-2004, 04:27 PM
fireballs? I'm sorry I know nothing but blade until next thursday when the movie wraps :)

Things are really tight right now, especially since I'm being dumped with some hero shots for the trailer that need to be done the next day etc. So aside from occasionally writing myself off(I hate hangovers) I'm pretty much at work every day and night until next it wraps... so ... firebalsl are good just haven't touched em ;)
will bring in some renders sometime just rare I'm at home at a reasonable hour right now

The_Magician
05-28-2004, 04:32 PM
(star-trek voice over)
particles and alpha channels - the new problem!

*ahem* How do you get MAX to render out particles with alpha channels? I've got my flwo set up, moving just how I want it to, I have instanded chape facings and they are big enough that MAX can render them out and can see them in the render.
But then pop it into after effects, and theres nothign there!!! I thinks its a blank layer for some reason, very annoying.

So then I tried using the glow effect through video post, it renders the alpha channel ok now, but looks terrable cause glow can't have any motion blur on it, ggrrr

but then I tried instanced geometry, work good, but can't use any opacity maps on it, or MAX again wont render an alpha channel for it.

Render elements doesn't pull it off either



Does anyone have any idea's how to overcome this? gettign quite annoying, its my final shot, tehn I can call my part in this assignment pretty much finished.

amckay
05-28-2004, 04:37 PM
I had this problem recently on a film I'm working on ... where I was relying on the filter colour to boost the rgb which still leaves the A channel quite dull.

I hate to say it but unless you want to boost your alpha in post, you might need to render two passes - one for your RGB and then turn transparency off and render the alpha in another pass.

The_Magician
05-28-2004, 04:42 PM
so, one with it set up as I want it too look, (use that as RGB), and also one with how I dont want ti too look but works, and use that as alpha for RGB...

wont this make it looks a bit strange? like, they'll fade out to black? or atleast have a black outline...


no, wait, it could work... I must try this. :cheers:

amckay
05-28-2004, 05:19 PM
oh believe me it's the biggest hack - but I've fought this to the end and at least the compositors I work with prefer me to do it this way just cause they want their precious alphas :)
but yes there isn't any real solution and logic goes right out the window :)
basically turn filter right down if you're relying on that (well to middle way) or something as it doesn't neccessarily need to be 100% opaque.

hope some of that made sense... I'm probably drunk from last night still ;)

The_Magician
05-28-2004, 05:24 PM
hey, made sense to me. mmmmm, precious alpha's.


Dude, I dont get it, how can you work with a hangover? You seem to always have lots to work on, yet get drunk all the time anyway. Dude, whats the trick to working with the bloody hangover? You must teach me this trick.

I haven't drank in *gasp* exactly a month ago today, oh man, it doesn't feel right, need beer... and vodka

amckay
05-28-2004, 05:31 PM
ahhh I don't mean to come off as an alchoholic, I'm just Australian ;)

I tend to deal with a lot of pressure at work so going out most nights lets me recharge ;) my hangovers only last the first portion of the morning and then I'm feeling fine again... I learnt today el polo loco is a great hangover place for breakfast ;)

I must admit when I was at cutting edge vfx I had the 'pose' for the first hour most mornings pretty down pat, I could rotate in maya and navigate and when the hangover goes away play catch up on my work.

But... I think might be worth cutting back.. the amount of people I said I'd drink with at siggraph in 2-3 months time, I think my liver is going to take a big hit ;)

amckay
05-31-2004, 01:29 AM
PS. onya pflow for being used in day after tomorrow, even if ever so slightly ;)

kickass fx in that flick

treed
05-31-2004, 01:34 AM
Yup, it sure does have kickass effects. Allan, go here (http://www4.discreet.com/3dsmax/3dsmax.php?id=736), and here (http://forums.splutterfish.com/viewtopic.php?t=3411) for more information. :)

DarkVIP
05-31-2004, 02:23 AM
hhmm, i have all the plugins that they were using, why cant I do the stuff that they do?

Oh ya, I dont spend enough time practicing. :cry:

treed
05-31-2004, 02:43 AM
Well not only that but the computing power. They didn't render all that stuff off of one computer, lol.

fast4ry
05-31-2004, 07:48 PM
hey,i have the blur plug but max says that cant be loaded,1 guy tell me that i need the library,i donwload the library but max says cant load too ,and i have this problems with other plugs of blur. i have max 5.somebody knows why??its blur for max 6?

Breinmeester
06-01-2004, 11:42 AM
You should d/l the blurlib file for MAX 5, copy it to your plugins folder and it should work.

amckay
06-01-2004, 05:50 PM
kinda ugly - I've got some really kickass shaders built in AB right now for this stuff, although this this is only one of the tests I've got here with me which isn't really 'too' special.

Will release some stuff soon...
http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/fire_test1.jpg
http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/fire_test2.jpg

treed
06-01-2004, 05:59 PM
Pretty cool. :) What shader type you using?

amckay
06-01-2004, 07:04 PM
it's just afterburn, multiple explosion daemons. mind you this one isn't too special, there are a few types I'm quite happy with, although I'm not a big fan of dumb particles for doing this kind of stuff, especially with fluids becoming more and more supported in most packages.

DarkVIP
06-01-2004, 08:09 PM
I am working on a startrek animation and in this scene the intrepid class starship was making a crash landing on a snowy/icy type planet.

So far the scene is coming along nicely, but I still have to add the particles for the impact when hitting the snow. Would anyone out there please let me know of the best way to do this because I am not that great using particles and applying materials to them.

Oh ya, the intrepid still looks a little choppy when trying to crash, I have to smooth that up abit and slow down the movement of the cloud.

Yes please let me know what you think of the scene as it is now.

Sorry I had to put the intrepid.avi (divx5.1) inside of a .rar file because that is how it has to be done where I uploaded the file to.

http://www.digital-underground.us/e...13_intrepid.rar


(NOT AFFILIATED WITH PARAMOUNT) (ONLY FOR HOBBY)

amckay
06-01-2004, 08:28 PM
link doesn't seem to work bro? or is it just me?

treed
06-01-2004, 08:43 PM
Nope doesn't work for me either.

DarkVIP
06-01-2004, 09:28 PM
sorry about that, try this

http://www.digital-underground.us/e107_files/public/13_intrepid.rar

DarkVIP
06-01-2004, 09:31 PM
thats weird, it works for me, if

http://www.digital-underground.us/e107_files/public/13_intrepid.rar doesnt work try adding the htt://www. in front of this.

digital-underground.us/e107_files/public/13_intrepid.rar

Ill look for a better place to upload next time. sorry :(

The_Magician
06-02-2004, 01:33 AM
man, that movement when the ship hits the mountain is pretty whacky, ehhehe.

Anyway, the way I'd set up the particles for that would be:

1: Put some particles on the base of the Enterprise.

2: Get a bit of the mountain mesh (or make a basic shape of it) where the spaceship hits. Make a UDeflector, set its object to the bit of mountain mesh.

3: when the enterprises particles hit that meshy/deflector, spray out a bunch of particles from the mountain. Use a collision spawn, and send out to different events, one with big snow blowbs, a small spraying snow, and one for rocks and ruble... or however you envisioned it, thats just an idea.

Also, Camera shake is extremely helpful to sell the effect.


As for that cloud... slow it down to the point of near-no movement and add in more of them.

And the shadow.. I hate shadows but that one is far to... defined.

And the ship itself, that bash has got to look prety nasty, the way you've got it at the moment looks as though its just hit the mountain and is still perfectly on course. From the look of it, it should loose a bunch of its speed and also would have come out of that aiming up a bit. It looks so soft at the moment. :shrug:

Well, I hope this helps you dude.

DarkVIP
06-02-2004, 01:39 AM
actually it does help me out alot :) you just gave me a reason to stay up until 3:30 in the morning again :) Thanks for the tips and ill keep you posted if u like. By the way, I dont know how to get rid of the shadow and slow down the cloud. It works great in the tutorial though.

The_Magician
06-02-2004, 01:47 AM
yeah man, keep us posted. We can all then tell you whats working and what isn't.


A good tutorial for this would be to look at the particleFlow tutorial that came with MAX, they are pretty solid. The one for the boat hitting the water will give you an idea for this thing your doing.

Infact, I reccomment having it open next to you, except not doing it with a boat, do the tutorial to your crash. You will learn soooo much doing tutorials that way.

amckay
06-02-2004, 05:11 PM
Hey guys, starting on a new website - just put up a wip webpage of some work I did recently just for a test.

If anyone's interested.

http://www.allanmckay.com/paycheck/test.htm

The_Magician
06-02-2004, 05:19 PM
I never saw paycheck so I dont knwo the effect exactly, but thats pretty cool. I've always found things like that interesting. Kindof like a "Heres an extremely general overlay of how I took on this challenge. I'm not giving you nubers or specifics, thats your part to figure out."

That picutre down the bottom looks pretty cool though, hehe.

I'm still trying to figure out how to get nice looking turbulance with the wind force. my particles move in spastic I-dont-want-you-to-move-like-that ways. One day I will figure it out... one day...


Pretty cool though allan

Morpheus09
06-02-2004, 05:35 PM
Hi Allan nice Test site
can you plz make a small tut. for the bullet distortions i am trying and trying but i don´t get the effect looks right
the particel are not the big problem but the shade or texture that´s my real problem i think

amckay
06-02-2004, 06:17 PM
The magician, well sometimes when there's no real desription there it's cause a majority of the time the studio in their own way patents that as 'their' techniques and technology/methods as you did it on company time, so you can't really give away those secrets etc ;) although not always the case. I might get more descriptive with some things but it all pends on what it is and who I worked for at the time, as I know my current employer is a lot tigher with information.

morpheus look online there's a dozen tuts out there. You can use refraction or displace pixels. refraction I personally think is a waste of time for this kind of thing. You're best off rendering out the pass and using it to displace the pixels in post.

I'll try and get around to writing a tut sometime, although even just simply rendering out little boxes and rendering a zdepth or even just a grey pass and use it to displace the pixels in combustion will work.

hope that helps. it's relatively straight forward stuff.
I'll do a tut when I have the time etc.

JasperCG
06-02-2004, 07:57 PM
Alan, you are using a term that I am not sure what it means....
"displace the pixels in post" Could you explain that a bit more?

Thanks.

Tim

amckay
06-02-2004, 09:05 PM
sure, okay in the comp, use your pass as a displace pass
check out photoshop it has displace as well if you don't have any compositing apps.

all this does is read the colour values you specify and use them to 'push' the pixels of the source (background image) around. So you're able to give it a distorted look by using a particle system.

I'd explain this better but bit pressed for time right now.
have a look online, it's a very standard procedure