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treed
02-22-2004, 01:40 AM
wow, that fuzzy tentacle love.max file is wicked! It was only shoing .05 particles and it was running slow. The guy has 12 million total, so when I told it to show 1% it was sooooo slow. :)

amckay
02-22-2004, 02:46 AM
Hey Chris, yeah sorry Grant never mentioned who specifically made it so i just assumed it was another TD at frantic opposed to someone external. Should really shut my mouth 'til I know all the facts ;)

PiXeL_MoNKeY
02-22-2004, 03:01 AM
Richard's script isnt currently publically available. He siad he needed to do some cleanup before/if he released it. It all started at a post at the splutterfish forums: Silly Particle Rendering Test (http://forums.splutterfish.com/viewtopic.php?t=2834)

treed
02-22-2004, 03:21 AM
Thats some amazing stuff. I can't wait to hear more about that particle renderer. :)

hawk_wang1981
02-22-2004, 12:30 PM
up

Gunnah
02-22-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by amckay
Hey Chris, yeah sorry Grant never mentioned who specifically made it so i just assumed it was another TD at frantic opposed to someone external. Should really shut my mouth 'til I know all the facts ;)

pfft :) not a biggy, i just wanted to make sure richard got his credit :) the stuff we're doing with it will be in the normal release (when richard puts it out)

fun tho, isnt it :) grant got a pile of new additions for pflow stuff now..

c

neods
02-22-2004, 06:39 PM
This is really intresting stuff. The stuff that brandon speak in the Splutterfish forum sounds really useful, So is there something like that in development at the time? Because it is stupid to use geometry in particles..

I would love to hear something more about this? And i'd love to get one =)

neods
02-22-2004, 07:07 PM
Allso i'd like to ask is how can i assing a material to the facing shapes?

Aurorae
02-22-2004, 07:34 PM
Assign your normal animated or static material operator, and select you material.
Then go into your material editor, and select the material you want. In the top panel, where 2 sided is located there is an option called face map. This applies to map to every single face (your facing particles in this case) Make sure that is ticked and drag your material into p flow.

MCage
02-23-2004, 05:58 PM
Hi allan, can u explain me the scene setup or can u post a simple scene of the effect?

Thanks

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Made this ages ago for the particles 101 vid tut which I still haven't put up (on dial up back here and it's like 50mb). Just thought I'd throw it up.
I've made other tests similar using afterburn to do a kind of nuke type look which is pretty cool looking. But will put them up when i have time to work on it a bit more.

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/simtest1.avi

Just pflow and a few spacewarps.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

amckay
02-23-2004, 11:14 PM
Sure, I'll probably post a scene soon, the current ones el dodgo so rather clean it up a bit first, and post a tutorial on similiar stuff at the same time as it explains that and about an hours worth of just particles in general ranging from simple stuff to complex events as well as just basic manipulation and control of particles in general.

Basically the way this scene works is that it's just four basic wind spacewarps, all radial. One pushes them away slightly from below and off center. That and another one both have turbulence, then there's two above that are radial, one on each side which are negative (around 3 or 4 in strength) to attract the particles up, they get a nice sucking motion inbetween the two winds but then plume out as they're attracted to it. They all have slight decay so that way there's an area of influence and a hotspot as they get closer. And of course they die after 25 or so frames.

I'll throw up the scene and other material soon, just kind of busy right now and trying to get the scene file down to a reasonable size for dial up to upload.

http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/burst_P.avi
http://www.allanmckay.com/tmp/burst_R.mov

KaMe
02-24-2004, 02:33 AM
The sim is really cool, and the textures are great Allan :D
Is the Sim 3d? I mean, the particles act like a 'nuke' or its like a 'flat' simulation?

:thumbsup:

amckay
02-24-2004, 05:15 AM
Yeah I know what you mean. It's 3D, although this sim wasn't really designed for other angles so it just needs a bit of tweaking to be symetrically 3D all round.

wish I had spent more time on it as the shaders where the real look comes from. Just inbetween visa stuff and other things haven't had time the last week to do any real 3D stuff.

-woot

Aurorae
02-24-2004, 06:01 AM
Why does stuff take so long to render :cry:

I wanted to see what this looked like, so excuse the small resolution and jitteryness at the start, im not quite sure what what is, but it only happened after I turned on Nth particle.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/aurorae/Rockets3.avi

and for the sake of learning, here's the max file.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/aurorae/Rockets03.max

treed
02-25-2004, 12:01 AM
Thats a pretty nice effect. When I open your max file, there seems to be no animation in your scene. I scrub the time slider but nothing is there.

Aurorae
02-25-2004, 05:59 AM
See the little box?

The pflow emitter is just on top of there. I might have the viewport count set to 0% try raising that.

by the way, Its Max 5.1, but that shouldnt really make a difference for people using Max 6 right?

da_rock21
02-25-2004, 04:59 PM
wow aurorae,

those explosions look great. what did you do to get it like that? im seriose, those are some of the best explosions on here if they are simply max pflow. if it is afterburn or somthing then i guess i really need to get into those and learn them

Aurorae
02-25-2004, 05:55 PM
Yeah its afterburn, I was so surprised as to how easy it was to set up!

Im gonna make a much better scene which covers shrapnel, as stated in the first post.

Time to blow up some teapots :beer:

Aurorae
02-27-2004, 06:49 AM
Heres a new render.

Any suggestions to try and improve it?

I think there should be more smoke when the explosions stop.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/aurorae/Rockets5.avi

loran
02-27-2004, 07:40 AM
Something that is generaly missing in CG is TIMING.
Because rendering is time consuming , animator tend to shorten the reality.
look at live references, and see how long it take for a smoke tail to disappear!
If you want to show the entire action in one shot (something that is rare to see in the TVnews or feature film), you will need much more time.
So, let the smoke slowly disapear after blasts and on the tails

Although, beautifull job:)

Aurorae
02-27-2004, 03:41 PM
Thanks!

That's really helpful. Ill muck around more later on.

PiledotNET
02-28-2004, 06:33 PM
Hi. Here's some tests using Allan's examples:

http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/dispersao01.jpg

http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/dispersao02.jpg

http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/dispersao03.jpg

http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/dispersao04.jpg

(continue...)

PiledotNET
02-28-2004, 06:35 PM
http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/dispersao05.jpg

http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/dispersao06.jpg

Max file
(http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/dispersao.max)

Animation 640x480 - 30fps - WMV - 877kb
(http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/dispersao.wmv)

(continue...)

PiledotNET
02-28-2004, 06:36 PM
And some weeks ago I've published 11 video tutorials about particles using 3ds max 5 tools (free for streaming). Hope this can help a little:

01 Principle used
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v064
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v064.jpg


02 Particle system
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v065
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v065.gif


03 Base material
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v066
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v066.jpg


04 Adding details
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v067
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v067.jpg

(continue...)

PiledotNET
02-28-2004, 06:36 PM
05 Ambiental forces
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v068
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v068.jpg


06 Cigarette
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v069
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v069.jpg


07 Blown up pipe
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v070
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v070.jpg


08 Exhaust pipe
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v071
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v071.jpg

(continue...)

PiledotNET
02-28-2004, 06:37 PM
09 Dust
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v072
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v072.jpg


10 Missile
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v073
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v073.jpg


11 Cloud
http://www.redpixel.com.br/vtdetails.asp?ref=v074
http://www.redpixel.com.br/images/v074.jpg

Best regards,

KaMe
02-28-2004, 08:41 PM
Hey this are very good! :thumbsup:

---

Ae cara, ja vi quase todos os videos da redpixel, E me ajudaram muito ;)
Valew!

amckay
02-28-2004, 10:38 PM
Excelent tutorials! Thanks for putting them up, great to see more and more of this stuff popping up on the web. Keep em coming!

House
03-01-2004, 04:49 AM
This is kind of a big request but any chance of getting those in english?

PiledotNET
03-01-2004, 09:55 AM
Hi Kame and Allan, thank you for your reply.

Here's a little compile with some rendered animations that I did during the video tutorials:
http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/fumacasamples.wmv - 1,33mb - 800x600

House, please, read this thread:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126103

Best regards,

termlimit
03-03-2004, 11:25 AM
PiledotNET: Hey just giving you a much deserved thanks for all the tuts. The one on this page with the dispersing box was great. I am trying to recreate this act. I was wondering if you could do a little tutorial in the forum describing exactly how you did this. Thanks in advance. and keep those tutorials coming.

Ian Jones
03-03-2004, 12:16 PM
Hey how do I access and download these vid tutes, I just get portugese and a box asking for an email address and something else. Im obviously missing something...

loran
03-03-2004, 12:28 PM
viscosity mushroom
I m trying to simulate viscosity. I mean particle keap away each others (not Pushing away). This process could simulate smoke or fluid motion.

here is a viscosity test


I use keep apart, animated speed and rate, and forces (Drag and a small spherical gravity to bring the particles back to the center



[url]http://forumel.free.fr/xplod/visco.mov]

Aurorae
03-03-2004, 12:33 PM
hell yeah thats sweet.

Ive never used keep apart before, time to go and have a little play.

What are you going to do to that now?

Breinmeester
03-03-2004, 02:39 PM
Hey Loran, that's a good effort!!! I was thinking about using a negative spherical gravity or wind to form a cloud too ever since Allan posted his fireball_test, but I haven't got it to work that good yet. I also noticed in some footage of nukes that the spherical bulks of smoke and firey parts seem to roll over eachother. I tried to simulate that by creating an expanding smoke ring where sphere particles slow down by age, letting younger particles pass them. I wanted to add a spin so it would seem the particles roll forward in their speed direction, but I didn't get the spin to work in a different angle (based on velocity vector) per particle.

Is this making sense? If so, does anybody have a great idea to get the rolling particles to work?

osik
03-03-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by xlars.dk
Just wanted to mention some of Allan Mckays video tutorials about pflow, since I found his results very impressing (for example the cigarette smoke setup).

Here is the link:
http://www.allanmckay.com/

EDIT: And here is a link to the initial thread here on CG talk:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=95003#newpost
i visiting that site ,but did not understend enythik there was a some matamatikal formuls .wy please understend what it was been , without that matematikal can i make that result

osik
03-03-2004, 02:56 PM
please tell mi please i was it that sites conected with partical..... but i i did t understend enything ,matematical formulas...without matematk can i do that

osik
03-03-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by da_rock21
wow those guys over at ILM are off the chain:drool:
i was in that site but did not understend enything without matematial formul could we do the works like that

osik
03-03-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by da_rock21
just want everyone to know that i am here too and hopefully will stay current in testing all the new things that people do as well as doing some of my own. hope to get started this weekend.
if we dont now programing .can we have same result like this,and what is that way

osik
03-03-2004, 03:39 PM
pleas tell mi ,i am learner ,,in the secon vuew /
how to do for see that result
i try to make the partical like that but cant proprly visualization it with material thanks for all.sory for my english

neods
03-03-2004, 09:14 PM
I have a question about using pflow with spheres that have a softbody tail that is done by reaktor. if i make a emitter that emitts these spheres with the tails, will reaktor/softbodys work properly?

Tims0l
03-04-2004, 01:03 AM
dont if this has been asked before but..

in one of the allan mc kay movies, planes are shot down by a "particle canon" and they react to that by crashing down.

what operator should you use to accomplish that? It isnt the collision thats for sure. because that only reacts to deflectors.

is it a script or something?

treed
03-04-2004, 01:10 AM
Yeah, its probably not a full functional feature in pflow. I'm pretty sure he used scripting to fake it. You can pretty much use maxscript to fake many effects through pflow.

Tims0l
03-04-2004, 01:20 AM
sorry found the answer on page 13.

used a mesher to let it work as a deflector. strange way to get it working but.... IT WORKS

thanx goes to mr mckay!

Ian Jones
03-04-2004, 02:09 AM
Hey I was hopeing someone could help me get this simple script to work. Basically I just want when an event is found true it goes to a new event which has this script operator in it:


on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()

for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleIndex = i
pCont.particleAge=0
)
)



The problem is that it doesn't reset all the particle ages at once. Particles which are making it to this event with the script before others are being reset to age 0, but then others are reset only as they arrive later. I don't want this. I want one particle making it to this event to reset ALL particle ages. Anyone?

loran
03-04-2004, 03:35 PM
For those who wants reference shots of (crazy) explosions

enjoy

[http://www.blastards.com/cinema.htm]

seantree
03-04-2004, 09:07 PM
Hi all, just read through this entire thread and found some very helpful info. I'm having a problem with Pflow using AB. I have 2 PFlow emitters in my scene and am attempting to use different AB setting for each of them, but AB seems to copy the settings from one to the other. any ideas on what i'm missing? any info is appreciated. thanks!

KaMe
03-05-2004, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Ian Jones
Hey I was hopeing someone could help me get this simple script to work. Basically I just want when an event is found true it goes to a new event which has this script operator in it:


on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()

for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleIndex = i
pCont.particleAge=0
)
)



The problem is that it doesn't reset all the particle ages at once. Particles which are making it to this event with the script before others are being reset to age 0, but then others are reset only as they arrive later. I don't want this. I want one particle making it to this event to reset ALL particle ages. Anyone?

After trying many times, i found one way of doing what you want.
First Check this image:
*image* (http://kame.freewebpage.org/pflow_script.htm)
Now:
on 'Check Global Variable' Script operator add this :

on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleIndex = i
if yeah == "work" then
(
pCont.particleAge = 0
)
)
)

And on 'Set Global Variable add this :

on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
for i in 1 to count do
(
global yeah = "work"
)
)


What the script does is:
When a particle get to the 'ScriptEvent' it sets a global value with name 'yeah', and value "work". On the first script it checks if the global value with name 'yeah' has a value of "work". When this is true, it will set all the particles Age in that event ('Birth' Event) = to 0.

There is only one problem:
When a particle get to the 'ScriptEvent' and set the variable 'yeah', yeah will have a value of "work" forever.
So, everytime you want to run the simulation (besides the first time :P) you will have to open the MAXScript listener and type something like this:
yeah = "something"
or
yeah = "blablabla"
or
yeah = ""
etc.

This is the way i found to do what you want, there are probably more ways. I'll see if i can come up with another way tomorow. :]

Hope you understood :thumbsup:

Ian Jones
03-05-2004, 05:49 AM
Hey thx so much for taking the time. Cheers!

amckay
03-06-2004, 11:45 PM
ah shit, KaMe beat me :\
:)

PS. In this shit hole of a town called LA again so who wants to drink beer? :)

Ian Jones
03-08-2004, 06:37 AM
I kind of wish I had gone to the DLF meet to see you Allan, but I was trying to avoid someone ese who would probably be there. LA cant be that bad...

loran
03-08-2004, 12:36 PM
just watch the trailer of The day after tomorrow where BIg particles Fx are used...
Does anyone try to do foam with PF?
Do a plane, noise deform animated, a move a box trough that surface.
The PF settings are -Birth + Position Object "plane"(to cover the plane with particles)
Then collision (the box) and spawn (to emit particle from the collision) and then ... Speed by surface? I cant keep my particle emitted by the spawn stick on the animated plane ! :/
any solution?

deetee
03-08-2004, 12:41 PM
Anyone ever tried making crowdsim in PFlow?

loran
03-08-2004, 01:04 PM
[http://www.christopher-thomas.net/tutorial_spiders.html]

Arjan
03-08-2004, 05:26 PM
Hmmz, I've downloaded the Afterburn demo for 3ds Max, but when loading 3ds Max 6, it'll fail to load the Afterburn plug-in?

Any help would be welcome:thumbsup:


Greetings Arjan

jlelievre
03-08-2004, 05:57 PM
Anyone evere tried to simulate shattering glass with Pflow? I'm doing some R&D having multiple windows blow out and I was wondering if anyone has attempted something like this before.



Hey Allan! We have lots of great places to drink here in SFO! (and it's not a sh!thole up here) :)

amckay
03-09-2004, 02:10 AM
Yeah DLF was pretty cool
I was amazed how many people were sending around emails saying it was great to catch up with me, I must have had a bit too much to drink, I don't even remember half those people being there let alone talking to me :) But then again that was my blinder month, I think 4.5K on alchohol in 3 weeks, no wonder my mune system's gone to hell lately.

Yeah haven't ventured too far out of Burbank, just catching up with DD and Frantic crew around here. Used to drink a lot at the circle bar in Santa Monica last time I was here. Was out at 3rd & promnaard last night though.

I wouldn't try foam with pflow, if you do I'd recommend using vol select as right now it's much faster than pflow material emission for reading materials. I made a tutorial for my dvd on this.. ack gotta release that soon, I think Blade 3's going to be taking up a lot of my time though :\

Sorry Cali's not a shithole, but I hate LA :) OC, San Diego, New Port, San Clemente, San Fran (!!!) I fully dig. But I'm from australia so I have every right to be able to compare and rag on LA :)

I'll be going to the siggraph meetings every month I think as a lot of the DD crew apparently attend them, so might see some of you guys there. I'll be the er Aussie.

Oh RE: Glass, yeah DD did some stuff for .... uh alias ages ago with TP. They made a cloth mesh (just a nice way to get really wierd tesselated surfaces) and I think fragmented it and did some funky stuff.
Ideally You want to either fragment the geometry or else make lots of instanced pieces and align them all togeather and have them break apart. Or else write a simple script, so you manually cut up the mesh and then assign a particle to each piece of geometry so it all falls apart individually.

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense, it's late and I'm tired ;)

seantree
03-09-2004, 02:34 AM
don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but Alan have you released any DVD's yet? I looked through your sites but found nothing mentioning them. Thanks!

Zag
03-09-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by amckay


I made a tutorial for my dvd on this.. ack gotta release that soon, I think Blade 3's going to be taking up a lot of my time though :\



What will be the released date for the DVD Alan?

loran
03-09-2004, 03:24 PM
oh u work on the Blade3 fx Alan?
send us some exclusiv shots ! we won't speak about that to anyone. :p
More seriously... Is there a massiv use of 3dsmax on that film?
uh?

... And Please, show us nice tips on PF instead of drinkin in LA .
:D

amckay
03-09-2004, 05:52 PM
The dvds been complete for about 2 months now pretty much. I just need to render out some of the examples as renders anda few other things just for visual content but all the tuts have been done for a while. It's pretty much every single damn thing I know about particles, shaders, procedural systems (modeling, animation) as well as scripting, afterburn and then some.

But pretty busy right now, but will try to put it as my primary 'thing to do' outside of work, so hopefully soon.

Yeah using max for b3.

Won't be doing too many more tuts 'til I get a new box. gave all my boxes away when I left Aus, and my laptop HATES recording vid tuts. but might pick up a box in a week or two for home maybe. But DVD will be done soon, it's like 12-15 hours long, like I said, it has everything on there ;)

seantree
03-09-2004, 06:14 PM
very nice!!! thanks for the info on the DVD. I'm looking forward to it.

treed
03-09-2004, 09:04 PM
W0000000t Allan! I'll finally have as much knowledge as you after I watch those DVD's, lol j/k. :)

Allan, I wish I was partying with you in CA. :beer: Sounds like you had a blast!

amckay
03-09-2004, 09:20 PM
if i have time tonight I'll try and write a table of contents on what it covers etc.
Only arrived about 4-5 days ago so still getting settled in. But will hopefully get it out the door soon, it's basically been done for a while, just busy/lazy

Zag
03-09-2004, 09:31 PM
All knowledge of Alan compiled in one DVD :applause:

Sound good to me!!:beer:

I hope you finish it quickly Alan...:bounce:

Breinmeester
03-10-2004, 11:21 AM
I've been seriously interested in your DVD since I first heard about it, Allan. Can you give us a price indication?

Is it al MAX or Maya and compositing too?
Is there some of the stuff you have online on it too?

neods
03-10-2004, 12:18 PM
I would definetly be buying this. Is it a data or a video dvd? Could you tell us about some of the videos you have there? and what will be the estimated price?

amckay
03-11-2004, 02:27 AM
Okay hopefully this comes out okay, this isn't everything but a majority of the stuff. There's a few more feature things I think. I'd like to do some more stuff before I finish although I gave all my boxes away to friends before I came over to the states and my laptop HATES recording video for some reason. Will buy another box over here soon, although surfboard and mountain bike come first I think.

Anyway the descriptions for some are really vague as I've just been looking at file names to get this list (kind of too busy to write a propper TOC right now). But ideally with everything I've put on here I've wanted it to be production quality and showing off cool stuff that really makes you think how pflow can be used outside of the standard particle stuff.
Although there's no official maxscript vids a lot of these delve into scripting.

Come to think about it I must be missing some as I'm sure there's a few major ones that I haven't listed here, hope I didn't leave them back in Australia ;)






main feature tutorial

40 mins creating a volcano
procedurally building a volcano from the initial modeling through shader driven displacement through to creating volumetric smoke, lava bursting out, various complex shaders etc.
30 mins twister
creating a large production quality tornado using afterburn and pflow to create lots of complex effects ranging from the initial funnel base to the debris, dirt and other particle driven events.


procedurals/shaders/pipeline stuff

creating complex procedural shaders and various effects through complicated shader tree's, showing the basics and jumping quickly into creating lots of different complex effects and achieving results as well as keeping everything within a procedural pipeline.

32 mins intro
12 mins ocean rocks
22 mins procedural freestyle
33 mins procedurals wrap up
15 mins acid ball
4 mins acid melting a character effect

60 mins particles intro 1
21 mins particles intro 2 (pflow indepth)
44 mins particles freestyle 1
21 mins particles freestyle 2
13 mins procedural ocean white caps
45 mins pflow rain 1 (similiar to the online version but a lot more complex with various other complex systems applied).
14 mins pflow rain 2
17 mins pflow rain 3
12 mins procedural ion cannon (creating complex pipelines that act and think intuitively)
7 mins procedural footprint emission
18 mins behaviour systems (flocking)
12 mins pflow collision driven events (seq dispersion)
13 mins velocity tests
8 mins advanced pushing particles
10 mins Secondary rocks
6 mins sticky fluids
5 mins laser airstrike
4 mins attracting particles (smart sequential events)
3 mins infinite loops in events


Afterburn
13 mins Fog banks
8 mins high quality fast rendering particle fog
13 mins clouds
27 mins explosions type 1
20 mins explosions type 2
12 mins explosion type 3 (fireballs/firewaves)
11 mins asteroid (explosion daemon)
8 mins afterburn combustion intro


Reaktor/Dynamics
30 mins Reaktor (everything)
11 Fracture 1
10 mins Fracture 2

amckay
03-11-2004, 02:38 AM
PS. I have no idea about costing or anything, it's something I did in my spare time I've been meaning to do for a long time, just dump everything I know from personal R&D and techniques I've developed for everyone else to pick up on. I haven't really looked past just building the content, but I doubt I'd want to sell it for any more than $50 maximum, probably cheaper. I really dig what John Wainright and Andy Murdock etc. are doing and sharing their knowledge and just making their DVD's like $20 or $30. I don't think everyone has the money to go and blow $400 per DVD on all the Maya DVD's and stuff out there. As that stuff is pretty damn expensive, especially for an hours worth of content.

Anyway this isn't the whole list but there's a few more ones that'll be up there, just gotta work out what I did with them ;)

I kept mainly focussed on pflow with this one, pflow and fx/TD orientated stuff to use in prodcution on films with max. Next Limit wanted me to touch on real flow and i was tempted to jump into TP etc. Although the old TP interface is ass and it's worth just holding back a few more months I think.

ideally this isn't the most professional DVD, although in terms of content I'm happy with it, and if people like it I'll jump into probably covering more specific feature tuts, like 5 or 6 key tuts going from start to finish of a production of a shot including comping in fusion. Also cover stuff like TP, real flow, real wave, maybe dreamscape and some other tools. At this point I'm just looking to get this out there and see what everyone makes of it. Hopefully everyone can learn from it, it'd be great to have more and more people getting enthusiastic about fx.


** edit
Actually there's plenty more content than that, so consider that page 1 I guess :) dunno where the hell the rest of it is though bare with me ;)

treed
03-11-2004, 04:01 AM
Great! Can't wait. :)

neods
03-11-2004, 06:47 AM
I have to say that i want to buy that a soon as possible. I have a project coming on that i need to do some flocking/reaktor stuff. But i would be happy to spend $50 bucks on this. So judging on the amount of video, it seems to be a data dvd, right?

anyways, hopefully you get the time to finnish it soon, i'll be first in the line to buy it =)

monkeydonut
03-11-2004, 09:11 AM
I just want to thank you for this Allan, giving back to the community like this is a really really cool thing to do. You're a great help and inspiration to amateur fx people like myself who want to break into the business in some way.

MUCH RESPECT!

Alex

edit: p.s. Did I forget to mention I will be buying this before it the dvd has cooled from pressing?

Aurorae
03-11-2004, 09:30 AM
For your DVD alan I'd be more than happy to spend $40-50 on it. Any more and I think people might start to get a little cautious about spending any more. With this price range everyone to professionals as well as hobbyists will be able to afford it.

Just want to say Im really looking forward to buying it, it should be great!

Ian Jones
03-11-2004, 10:52 AM
Heck yeah.. count me in too. Would be $50 well spent.

Nando3D
03-11-2004, 12:39 PM
that's a great price.. I want one :applause:

nando

amckay
03-12-2004, 11:18 PM
Yeah just wish I had the time to finish it.
Almost considered releasing it all for free cause I'm just too busy for the bit about authoring it :)

Will finish it this weekend then look into whether to make it a rom or a propper dvd. I'd say for time's sake it'll just be a simple rom with very little interface. It's definitely not neatly laid out like how John did his maxscript 101 DVD, this is messy and sloppy, but the content I hope makes up for that.

anyways...

lets get back to talking about pflow or something ;)

deetee
03-13-2004, 02:49 AM
Ya, about particles.

Im doing this "Technical Webdesign" course at school atm, and I have to make a dynamical PHP site. So I figured I'd make me one of those artblog pages. I wanted to fill it with a gallery, a tutorial section, etc etc.

Last night I had to test out my Tutorial PHP script, so I had to write myself a tutorial. So I just went for ParticleFlow Fire. If anyone wants to check it out, its

HERE (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/artblog/index.php?page=tutorial&id=12)

Be sure to comment at the bottom, so I can check if the comments work as they should :) Oh, yeah.. There are also a few jokes about Allan McKay in there :)

sidvici
03-13-2004, 02:45 PM
brilliant, very detailed and easy understanding tut, Deetee.

here is just a suggeston: this method works very well with scanline renderer. but atmospheric effects doesnt work with mental ray. so i suggest you make it compatible with both rendersystems. you get a very nice and more subtil glow if you use an additive material instead of atmospheric glows. and it works pretty well with mr. just a suggestion. i ve uploaded a similar scene to show you what i mean. same technique just another material.

sidvici_pflow_flame.max (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/index.php?act=dl&file=c2lkdmljaV9wZmxvd19mbGFtZS5tYXg=)

treed
03-13-2004, 03:00 PM
but atmospheric effects doesnt work with mental ray.


Why not just use Brazil RIO then? That works with atmospheric effects, afterburn.

sidvici
03-13-2004, 03:55 PM
the answer is very simple, because brazil needs to purchased, mr not(if you own your max6 license). but good to know that brazil can handle ab stuff ;)

deetee
03-13-2004, 04:11 PM
sidvici: Than - Tho I only used the glow when the particles were very very small. If I hadnt had glow on them they wouldnt even show. Its only the bottom picture that has glow, the one above has just got additive textures, tho I will try to make a good looking MR one too, so It can be used in both renders - will do an update later today, thanx :)

treed
03-13-2004, 04:28 PM
the answer is very simple, because brazil needs to purchased,


Well Brazil needs to be purchased, but Brazil RIO is free, and you can d/l at splutterfish's website. :)

Sorry to get off topic there, aight back to pflow.

sara_qq
03-14-2004, 10:57 AM
i was told that many people here use afterburn so...

can somebody have a look at this file and tell me if it flickers for you in animations?

http://www.g2network.com/z/fire.max

thanks.

deetee
03-14-2004, 04:26 PM
2 more tutorials over at my site (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/artblog/index.php?page=tutorials) - particle grass and particle fireworks. There will be alot more tutorials too, when I get time to make them, hope they can be used for something :)

Zag
03-14-2004, 06:10 PM
Keep it comming!!!:beer:

Morpheus09
03-14-2004, 07:43 PM
Hi
deetee nice tutorials i like the Fire tut most :applause:

I will make a Bullet trail in Pflow but i dont know how
if someone has a good starting idea pls post or send me a message

amckay we all need this DVD :drool:

amckay
03-14-2004, 08:46 PM
Hey DeeTee lookin good mate, haven't had a chance to read through it yet but the end result looks very nice

RE: Brazil/MR/Etc. That's a huge issue, MR is a great renderer, and it's the ONLY renderer now available on every platform. So if you render stuff in Maya/Max whatever, you know it's all going to work togeather because all the same motion blur values and everything else will match up exactly the same, as do the shaders/lighting etc all look the same. Universally all the shaders can be moved back and forth, and read amongst other packages, and ultimately it has a lot of great advantages over the other renderers for universal stability in most studios pipelines when working with multiple packages.
The 'downside' to it in Max, is that a lot of great plugins haven't been recompiled to work with it yet, and some that do have bugs, not with the plugins, but the way MR thinks isn't always supported by all of the plugins out there.

Afterburn right now isn't compatible with MR, as are many other plugins, but it's a huge hit on the way I work as there really isn't any other great final solution to rendering volumetrics within max outside of Afterburn (at least that is publically available and out of alpha right now (Aura, amongst one or two others). Which results in having to use sprites etc. for a lot of MR renders. You can render AB passes scanline and comp them back in, although that does break a lot of stricter pipelines, and if there's holdout mattes then they won't necessarily match up if they have mo-blur etc. Other issues are if you were in pflow or thinking particles to have a particle system generate particles, if at frame 0 or any other frame where all the particles are dead then there's no geometry to render, or UV information. MR freaks out about this and the only real solution is to set up a hack to have geometry always available for MR to be fed if necessary. There's plenty of ways to do this, and it's not hard, but it however does break the pipeline constantly when it's overlooked.

Brazil and other commercially available renderers are excelent and each renderer has it's own strengths and downfalls, although having MR integrated into max 6 is such a powerful addition to max, which so many people have overlooked when max 6 was released. Opposed to the popular 1000+ feature lists that ktx/discreet have been known for pumping into max, max 6 came with several gigantic new features for max (pflow, reactor 1.5, Mental Ray etc) and a lot of smaller subtle features which are overlooked. So there's been a huge amount of whinging about this when things like Mental Ray are really some die hard additions which save people having to necessarily go out and buy additional render licenses.

Although it does suck donkey balls that I can't use some of my most favoured render effects within MR right now.


one or two of these plugins are being worked on right now to have MR support, although from what Discreets telling us it sounds like a lot more work than most plugin programmers have realised, as opposed to writing a plugin specifically for max the way it's done, you have to write it within Mental Rays way of handling things, and this pretty much requires plugins to be rewritten. This of course is a huge downfall, although the plus side is that if they are rewritten for MR, then they'll be universally supported for other platforms such as XSI/Maya etc. This at least would be the case with things like Pyrocluster/Afterburn and most shader based plugins.

-Allan McKay

amckay
03-14-2004, 08:54 PM
Morpheus09 : I did a bucketload of slow mo bullet distortion effects for Paycheck (still haven't seen that damn movie). I'll see what I can do about writing a tut or at least building a max file for it.
Personally I wasn't a huge fan of the bullet distortion stuff in the matrix, in terms of how it looks. Very much stylised and executed for that movie, although without praising myself, I'm happy with how the distortion stuff I built looks. I tended to use something like 900,000 particles for most distortion shots, although that was to give a lot more internal motion and complexity to the overall look. Ideally a lot of what happens with bullet distortions is executed within the comp. You CAN do it within 3D, although I think anything like that should always be done in 2D for speed, flexibility and the ability to change and adjust things without necessarily having to rerender everything constantly to workout the overall look and feel to what you want to achieve.

I've seen people do bullet distortions with just pathdeform and really simplistic methods like that, others go for pflow and more complex routes, but in the longterm the basic idea is more weighed in on the shader/look which is pretty much just pixel distortion.

If you want, just emit a bunch of spheres that expand and contract over time, and render a depth or falloff pass, and in Combustion or Digital Fusion make that pass displace the pixels of your background plate or scene, this pretty much achieves the effect that you're after. You can do it in photoshop on a still frame if you just want to test it and don't have any more complex compositing packages. Just make it a seperate layer and use the displace filter (off the top of my head). Of course you can make the look more complex, but that's the basic idea.

I'll try and build a scene next time I'm near a license of max.

Breinmeester
03-15-2004, 12:12 PM
Ah, that's a very welcomed idea, Allan! I helped this guy once that needed heat distortion on a helicopter that was influenced by the rotor downwash of the chopper. I adviced him to do it with particles, render out a black&white pass of the particles only and use that to distort the color pass of the chopper and the backplate in post. I think it even looks better than a refrection setup by materials.

I agree on the stylished look of the Matrix bullet trails, but I think it fit the movie well as those effects (like for instance that very stylished ripple glass shatter on the building) and camera movements contribute to the live action manga feeling. Therefore I think it's kind of strange that these vfx get copied in movies that aren't out to have that manga feel. Ah well, means more work for you right? ;) I'll probaply have a look at 'Paycheck' soon.

I'm working on two particle effexts at the moment. One is a flock of birds. I kind of got it working after a lot of struggling with the Keep Apart operators. Does anybody know a good way to work them? I had a lot of jiggery motion on all the birds trying to avoid eachother. I took out the turbulence wind and crancked up the drag to smooth it out, but it's still a tad too irregular at times. I'm using a find target test to set out the flock's path and I'll add in some negative pbombs today to steer them a little better.

Still working on an explosion too. I want to blow up a small building in a desert, but I can't the Reactor part to work properly. Does anybody have some experience in combining pflow with Reactor? I can't find a good way to do explosions with Reactor.

Morpheus09
03-15-2004, 12:47 PM
I saw Paycheck and this distortion is what i am looking for
if you can plz make a tut i think tuts are allways better then only the max file ;)


Breinmeester could you make a small max file or explain it a bit better i don`t realy know what you mean
( distortion on a helicopter ) :shrug:

Breinmeester
03-15-2004, 01:08 PM
Well, it's really a compositing trick. You can use a black'n'white image to create the illusion of distortion. It takes the grey value of the pixel in the B&W image and shifts the according pixel of the footage in X and Y, white means more effect, black means less. This can be done in any such packages as After Effects, Combustion, Shake and the lot. What I suggested was to create a particle system that emitted from the chopper and was influenced by the movement of the rotor using forces. Now, next to the color pass (without particles) you can render out a particles pass, which contains only the particles (white colour, additive) on a black background. You can then use this pass to distort the colour pass which is composited onto the backplate footage. Easy trick and quite fast while it still allows for tweaking.

loran
03-15-2004, 01:11 PM
Breinmeester, here is a simple example I do combining fracture and PF
-draw a plane
-convert it to editable poly
-cut it in pieces (u can draw your wanted chunks shape design , bricks or glass frags...)
-select all the shapes and aply a Shell modifier to give them deph
-create a RBcollection and Fracture
-animate using Reactor (I won't explain u here how that works)
-create a PF emitter that is based on the chunks.
-add a speed test (when the chunk start to move, they create particles)
-then u can now create smoke trail from the chunks or little other chunks particle based.

is that s ok?
enjoy.

[http://forumel.free.fr/xplod/fracture02.zip]

loran
03-15-2004, 01:24 PM
is there anyway using PF to make Ben Aflleck being a good actor?
Even Allan can't do that
:D

Breinmeester
03-15-2004, 03:26 PM
Thanx a lot Loran! I pm'ed you. :D

Ian Jones
03-16-2004, 11:23 AM
Hey guys, you know the 'lines' display option... well is it possible to actually create geometry like that? whose distance, direction and even curvature is dependent upon a particles path and speed.

eg. for flying sparks. I know effects can be achieved with trails and / or motion blur, but I would love to use those lines as actual geomtry.

Breinmeester
03-16-2004, 01:13 PM
Hmm, only thing that springs to mind is a script that stretches a particles geometry based on velocity, but I don't know if that could be done.

amckay
03-16-2004, 05:53 PM
Brainmeester, here's some flocking stuff I did for the sequel to George of the Jungle.

www.allanmckay.com/video/g2_bees.avi

Although I did this stuff in Maya, and in the end it turned out a lot more simpler, motion blurred and ugly than it should have due to budget and render restrictions with us having to render out so many more complex creature shots.

But the idea behind it is pretty mucha ll code driven and what I wanted to achieve was more a complex behavioural system where the bees are all able to react to eachother and move within their flocking groups, but still be aware of other objects and 'see' their target etc.

Doing it in max is all possible, might be a little slower than how maya handles it though.


PS. Bobo has written a tutorial on stretching geometry based on velocity if you need to check it out. I think it's www-scriptspot/bobo/

Reality3D
03-16-2004, 10:19 PM
loran, that fragment example is very smart. Great :)

Breinmeester
03-16-2004, 10:46 PM
That wavy cloudlike group motion in your flocking looks great, Allan! Thing is that bees allow for a lot more jiggering motion (although yours look quite smooth and subtle) as they move faster than birds. My birds look okay now when in motion, I think the drag helped a lot there. Also, I checked on speed limit in the keep apart operator that avoids inner collisions and it controls the speed rather than the speed operator. That helped a little too. The hassle with keep apart operators make their motion jumpier when they slow down, causing them too look more like bats than birds, but I think this'll have to do, I don't want to spend too much time on them.

Loran's file really helped me out there. The PFlow bits are pretty clever. Is it true that setting Speed to Bounce in the Collision test causes the spin the slow down on each bounce to 0, set in the new event?

Too bad Reactor can't work with MAX's standard forces or the meshbomb or something. Faking a spherical explosion with collisions is a real pain.
I'll work some more on Reactor + PFlow tomorrow. Time for some sleep... (0.45am over here.)

Ian Jones
03-17-2004, 12:18 PM
Ahh, the answer to my previous question about creating geometry that is similar to the lines display:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__particle_Lenght_by_velocity.htm

Still, it would be nice to have curved shapes that actually show the path of the particle. I'll have to try it myself I guess.

amckay
03-17-2004, 04:06 PM
Ah the system I set up is fully customizable and allowed for more graceful motion and various other aspects, although in the end what the director wanted was a lot of chaos. But various old R&D tests kind of looked interesting having characters being able to run around and avoid objects and still stick to their set groups.
My main peave is that motion blur got cranked up towards the end and we didn't render the final renders of the bee's in prman so I lost all detail fromthe disaplacement mapping and mo-blur looks terrible, hence why I don't really show any of the g2 stuff off ;)

Breinmeester
03-17-2004, 04:48 PM
Sounds more like a crowd sim for flocks. Would that be possible in PFlow in a somewhat simpler form? Or does it call for each particle within a group constantly knowing what the other members of the group are about to do on top of dealing with influences from outside?

The first shot of that sequence you posted (the close up) doesn't look bad at all. Nice composite and good motion. Was the motion blur done in post?

KaMe
03-17-2004, 05:46 PM
Hey... here am i again :D

Originally posted by Ian Jones
Still, it would be nice to have curved shapes that actually show the path of the particle. I'll have to try it myself I guess.

Don't know if this is what you had in mind but... I had an idea of making splines that 'show' the particle path, and i just had to do it :]

After some time reading the MAXScript Reference, this is what i got:

note: As i'm not that good in scripting, there are some things you'll have to do by hand :]

1 - Open the Maxscript Listener and type this:

myline = line name:"Line01"
addnewspline myline


2 - Now you should have a 'invisible' spline in your scene, press 'H' to open the 'Select Objects' window and select it, then make 'n' copys of this Line (where 'n' = Number of particles you're going to have)

I know this can be done trought a script, but i think this way is faster :p

3 - Create a Standard Flow, and add a ScriptOperator:

on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
LineArr = $Line* as array
for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleID = i
global curline = LineArr[i]
addknot curline 1 #smooth #line pCont.particlePosition
)
)


4 - Now, put the timeslider on the last frame (Do Not Drag it! - Just click on the last frame), then turn the ScriptOperator off, and you should have lots of splines :]

And Allan, i totally agree with Breinmeester, doesn't look bad at all :thumbsup:

amckay
03-17-2004, 11:30 PM
KaMe that's great work! Haven't tested it (too busy working, drinking and installing Battlefield Vietnam on everyone's machines ;) but might want to make it an automated script, cause I assume if you scrub it as an animation back and forth it's gonna get messy ;) great work on that

Yeah it's just maya motion blur is the worst motion blur since 3dsmax1 object motion blur heh
It's old, but the system was pretty cool, I built a more complex one from that but after that and Scion I got dragged over to the states and have been stuck on max projects ever since.

Max can do it, I personally think it's going to be slower than maya, just because the way I did all of the behavioural stuff was all 100% code. That's because that's pretty much how you do things in Maya if you want to get the job done. And pflow tends to handle script operators a bit more slower than Maya and Houdini. Although it's definitely all possible to achieve.

Wish I had a bit more time to delve into pflow stuff, but busy on other products right now.

Great work again KaMe

KaMe
03-18-2004, 12:08 AM
:)

I've never worked with Maya, but i heard that it has a really powerfull particle system, but you need scripts even for some simple stuff. And yeah, max can get pretty slow sometimes if you have some scripts with a large number of particles :scream:

About the 'spline script', it actually doesn't get messy if you scrub back and forth, this is because the spline 'objects', when modified trought maxscript, need to be updated via maxscript (UpdateShape()). This is why you have to jump to the last frame, so you don't have to later update the shape. And you can't put the 'UpdateShape()' inside the ScriptOperator, because Max freaks out (probably because it doesn't have what to update yet).

I still have to see if there is a way of creating a UI in maxscript, that can have effect in a ScriptOperator. So you can turn it on and off, change settings, etc. :thumbsup:

neods
03-18-2004, 10:24 AM
Kame, that sounds great, and a UI would be nice.

Allan, how is that dvd coming? i have the cash right here in my hand =)

amckay
03-19-2004, 06:23 PM
Yeah, I'm very cautious about dissing max, although scripting can be kinda slow, as well as some other things. There's some stuff in the works to remedy a lot of this stuff, Oleg's been busy.

Maya though ideally handles a lot more hardcore stuff a lot better, although if you don't like coding EVERYTHING yourself, then you'll hate maya for complex systems. I find it harder to work in Maya, just because you end up having multiple maya's open cutting and pasting code to just check visually whether your sin wave mixed with several lines of expressions are acting the way they should outside of the rest of the influencing math. So it gets frustrating to try and keep visually working as an artist when you're having to keep the maya help open at all times looking for bits of code to get your particle to slow and turn when changing direction etc. Max is a lot more visual in terms of what it's doing, so usually you can visually see what's going on, and you have the option to put code in when necessary.
If I'm being honest, right now I'd not use max if it finally didn't open itself up to accessing particles on a per particle basis. Although Thinking Particles does this stuff to, so if you can get your head around it's wierd way of thinking and it's bad gui, it's a very powerful plugin as well.

I have to work this weekend, going to the cast and crew premiere of scooby 2, and er .. working... more... but I'll try and finish the DVD this weekend finally and then work out how to get it out. I guess maybe for people in a dier hurry I can just mail copies off without any gui as ideally it's just a bucketload of hour long tuts etc. So ... yeah for the impatient people I'll try and keep you guys satisfied too :)

Dawn of the Dead comes out tonight... woot... Oh yeah actually, blade 3 trailers showing during dawn of the dead... although nothing too special in it.

PiledotNET
03-19-2004, 06:28 PM
Hi Allan, have you already used normal maps in particles?

I think they're are doing this in Doom 3.

Best regards and wish you guys a nice weekend.

amckay
03-20-2004, 01:03 AM
How would you use normal maps on particles? In terms of instanced geometry etc? or actual particle positions?

ah actually I can see what you're referring to, yeah well I wasn't using normal maps but in PRman we just had alot of complex sub pixel displacement and tesselation which is where a lot of the detail came into play with the bee's, but then we switched back to Maya's normal renderer for these shots and the director also wanted more motion blur, this stuff turned out a lot more hideous as the original system I coded I was pretty happy with at the time. But using normal mapping on particles is a pretty neat idea!

Normal mapping's becoming more and more common more directly for real time stuff, which is excelent as it's a very cool bit'o'technology. The stuff id's doing with Doom technology wise is friggin great, I can't believe how much games technology has jumped over the last 10 years, I still remember thinking river raid and double dragon were 'tha shit'

But yeah definitely a cool idea for instanced swarms of stuff, or anything where you need to render out lots of geometry and want that extra detail without your render farm crawling.

Anyway time for some bf vietnam ;)

deetee
03-20-2004, 03:31 PM
I cry myself to sleep every night, for not having the McKay dvd yet :D

amckay
03-20-2004, 08:47 PM
Hey guys, made this ages ago for a project, but thought I'd show some of the R&D stuff for it. basically it's just a really turbulent set of snow flakes dropping down. The idea was that it's necessary for them to be really turbulent and kicked around, opposed to just falling to the ground.
I've got the preview of both the system and also a wayyy more dense system just to show the pattern and how it all works inside of it's turbulent areas.

Nothing too special, but it was some of the first pflow production stuff I did nearly a year ago.

www.allanmckay.com/tmp/snow_paritcles.avi
www.allanmckay.com/tmp/snow_trajectory.avi
PS. Sorry the trajectory ones so friggin big, shoulda codec'd it properly ;) but it's the main one I wanted to show off, just the idea behind all of the turbulent influence.

treed
03-20-2004, 08:53 PM
I really like them, especially the 2nd one. Nah don't worry about the sizes, it loaded fast for me still. Could you maybe post a screenshot up of the pflow tree? :)

amckay
03-20-2004, 11:56 PM
yeah it's on my laptop though which I left at home this weekend. Originally built this system for a movie coming out soon, although I think it got ditched cause of mental ray and pflow problems in the end. Idea was just to have lots of imperfections with close up snow flakes, to mimic if the shot was shot in the real world, it'd be with a helicopter so the rotor blades would cause a lot of the initial snow flakes around it to get kicked up, talk about being a perfectionist about imperfections.
Just brought it up cause I was having to explain turbulence fields and ways to mimic particles in max to one of the other TD's here today so used that as an example.
Actually built this which is simple but explains just in terms of wind etc, how to push and manipulate particles around. It's simple but built it in a few seconds for the other guy to pull apart, so if you guys are interested, check it out.
it's for max 6, used pcloud just cause I couldn't be stuffed setting up a tree, but should get the idea across.

sireel
03-21-2004, 09:45 AM
Hey guys, I've been trying to use particle flow for a short I've been working on and I wanted to know of the limitations particle flow has as far as how many particles 1 flow can hold.
It seems that during my test run in which I have 1 flow emitting from two objects starting at -fr 50 ending at fr 200 I run into problems when I'm emitting beyond a 20,0000 or so rate.... I might beable to push it up further but when I go as far as 50,000 the particles do not render. but they show up in the view ports.
I also tried using just a flat amount of 1mil but it doesn't seem to like that at all either . Can any of you guys shed some light on this?

Aurorae
03-21-2004, 11:37 AM
Try selecting your pflow object in the viewport and under its modifier tab select system management, then alter the maximum no. of particles and see if that helps.

sireel
03-21-2004, 07:12 PM
DOH!... thanks Aurorae

Aurorae
03-21-2004, 08:54 PM
I tried to acheive a similar result to Allans, and it was quite acceptable however I would be interested to see how you managed to get the particles to stay in that general area. Whenever I try it with wind w/ turbulence after 70-100 or so frames the particles seem to lose their structure and gradually dissipate...

Any ideas?

amckay
03-22-2004, 03:16 AM
I'm not too happy with the spacewarps in max, they're old and not as complex in some ways. Turbulence is good but has a lot of limitations.

What you're best of doing is using drag to sedate the velocity of the particles. This will keep them more togeather.
I REALLY wish conserve was in max, I've been bugging discreet for a long time about this, it just well conserves the particles, keeps them wanting to stick togeather, so you can get really fine wisps that don't necessarily leave the body's main structure.

Aurorae
03-22-2004, 05:57 AM
*slaps head*

thanks man!

neods
03-22-2004, 07:23 AM
I agree with Allan, Conserve would be a great help, and when doing stuff like Smoke and Fire this would really help. Is it possible to write some kinda script that would do this?

And cant wait for the dvd, did you find time to work on it last weekend?

Breinmeester
03-22-2004, 10:52 AM
What is conserve exactly? Can it be faked with a negative Keep Apart and a Drag force?

amckay
03-22-2004, 11:05 PM
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/parint.html


I could write something similiar to conserve for pflow... but not conserve itself.

Basically in a way it just dumbens down the influence of a spacewarp, although it's a bit more tricky than that, or else I'd just use the force strength percentage or plug the force operator into the float channel and reduce it back that way, although it's a bit more tricky in the way that it works than that.

Also max turbuelnce and the way it works is a bit different to how maya's works, I prefer maya as you get more control in what you want to do with it.


Neod,
Yeah had to work Saturday and a bit of Sunday, but got it all done. Essentially if I kept it in the 1024x768 camtasia format then it's 100% done right now. Something like 12-14 hours of tutorials and about 25-30 extra scene files on top of the tutorial ones.

So it's just sitting here on my laptop's HD until I decide what to do with it. DD has a dvd burner or two so in theory I could start burning them... although gotta find time :)

monkeydonut
03-23-2004, 09:32 AM
How about posting one of them on your website as a teaser Allan ;)

(realistic afterburn explosions? ) :D

hehe

deetee
03-23-2004, 10:11 AM
If you need any help, I have a burner and authoring tools too *blink* :wavey:

So many hours worth of particle madness, I hardly can wait. This must be christmas, birthday, puberty(?) all together! Havent had much time doing particles lately, work and school suckup most of the time, tho did manage to get an A in programming for web and technical webdesign.

Think I will have to do some more tutorials on PFlow this week. Anyways.. The DVD.. god.. Its tearing me apart :D

amckay
03-23-2004, 04:35 PM
I thought I already had 20 something video tutorials online (3dluvr.com and allanmckay.com) as a teaser? :)

Reality3D
03-23-2004, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by amckay
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/parint.html


Drinking again Allan?8)

It would be cool. Quantum physics with pflow

treed
03-23-2004, 10:03 PM
Yah I don't understand a bit of that freakin stuff. I'm math and physics illiterate.

amckay
03-23-2004, 10:21 PM
Here's some random screengrabs btw of some of the stuff on the dvd, only of a few of the tuts though.

Just setting up paypal and stuff now but erm yer ...

http://www.3dluvr.com/machette/temp/disc/


PS. that's not the best description of conserve! Sorry, just grabbed a random bookmark that had mention of it. Do a search there's some dumbened down maya descriptions online somewhere.

Ian Jones
03-23-2004, 10:37 PM
Your not the only one Treed... :)

KMAnStudios
03-24-2004, 02:19 AM
Well, Alan, I hope you're ready for the deluge in the ordering. Your tuts are always well thought out and very well presented. I'll be one of the early orderers. There's some really cool scripting things you do I'd like to get a peak at. I used to think I was scripting challenged...just turns out I'm math challenged and can't seem to get from the artistic "Move this here and tell me where it is" to actually scripting it and how to tell the program to do what you want. Anyhoo, i think the things you do are very clever and I'm very thankful you decided to share this valuable knhowledge with us.

Aurorae
03-24-2004, 06:02 AM
Those screenshots are like sweet love to my eyes :bounce:

Some really nice looking stuff there!

The_Magician
03-24-2004, 12:11 PM
Heya Guys! Time to join the discussions...

I've been following this thread for a while now, trying to get into scripting. Currently learning Lingo and ActionScript2 for Uni. I'm noticing Similarities in PF script and Lingo, its helpful. So far I can read PF script, but atm I'm having trouble coding it. But practice should help me with this...

You guys are showing some great stuff here, I gots me some catching up to do... textureing is once again proving itself to be a bitch, hehe.


Anyway, I'm having troubles with 2 things here:
1) the Wind Force... I'm trying to figure out what each value does. So far I gather Turbulance controls the size, frequency is how often it happens (can't think of a better way to explain it), but I can't figure out what Scale is doing.... Can someone explain this? the Max User Ref. doesn't do a good job explaining it.

2) How do you get Video Post Glow effect to work on a Particle System? I've got the Object channel all set up, works fine for normal geometry, but put a PF in there and it doesn't know whats what.


This thread has helped me plenty so far, you guys dont mind me joining in?


P.S. Allan, I too am looking forward to your DVD, your Vid tuts are nicely done.

deetee
03-24-2004, 12:36 PM
In order to get VP effects on your particles you have got to set the object ID to each of the events in your system, or to the main system itself. Rightclick the event you want to add post effect to and add a object id to it. It should work fine then.

loran
03-24-2004, 12:43 PM
Turbulence:
the level of force
higher value mean more effect

Frequency:
as you said; how frequent are the turbulences
the higher value mean more often

Scale:
imagine the turbulence are represented by a sinuzoid curve:
bigger mean higther and longer curve loop

but in fact in the settings ,the lower value mean the bigger size of turbence (set it to 0,01 or 0,02 for exemple)

glups!!is that clear??

:rolleyes:

MCage
03-24-2004, 06:45 PM
VERY coooL!:applause:


Hey Allan, what Computer do U use ?

2xXeon,4xXeon...or what, ur scene are complex, and there are a lot of particles..???

:bounce:

amckay
03-24-2004, 08:24 PM
MCage, I've actually gotten a lot of people asking me about this stuff... my laptop is a 2.4ghz p4 with 512mb ram and a radeon 8500! It's dog slow even for those specs, so capturing tuts it's pretty bad on, although handles fluids and particles quite well.

ALL of the fx I've done for scooby & paycheck and all R&D and personal work i've done on my trust laptop (actually looking to get a new one, purely just cause I want something light in weight as I hate lugging heavy things around).

My DVD I did on a p4 2.8 ghz with a gig of ram, just cause I needed a render box or two for scoobs and it seems to like tp capture video better, so I go higher res and still perfect quality.
Honestly it all comes down to knowing your tools, both so you can manipulate and get the particles to do what you want, but then so you can optimize them down so they'll render at an exceptable rate.


KManstudios, thanks I appreciate your enthusiasm. I'm not a huge math guy either, although having to move into that stuff more now, but I try to keep everything simplified and tackle it all at the pace you can handle, and keep refining it from there.
I wrote a lot more than this.. but realised I can go on about stuff verrry easily :)
When I get a desktop machine at home I'll start contributing more on scripting/particles/etc. again, just got a huge todo list right now and finding it hard to do anything outside of it.

NBF
03-24-2004, 09:09 PM
Hi guys, Great thread.

I have a situation where a Tanker truck is hauling fluid,
he hits a curb and the fluid starts moving effecting the
trucks CG "center of gravity" causeing it to flip over and
blow up. I've been asked to reproduce this effect it is for
court so it also has to be correct.
Just wandering if anyone has any ideas on how to get
Pflow and reactor to do this.

Thanks in advance

amckay
03-24-2004, 09:23 PM
Sorry for the large speal before, and all of em ;) tend to always go off on a wild tangent if you give me a chance ;)


RE tanker truck:
This is just going to be previs quality stuff right?
Does it necessarily have to be dynamics?

Personally if it's court case stuff in my experience I'd just hand animate it as you're going to get a lot more control, and personally I'd not 'always' necessarily rely on reaktor physically correct simulations, especially when fluids are involved that's for sure.

I can throw some solutions at you, although I'd thoroughly recommend tackling a job like this with keyframes rather than trying to get everything to work how it would in real life, especially with a tanker truck full of fuel :)

NBF
03-24-2004, 09:48 PM
Thanks Allan, I would greatly appreciate any input that you
have. I would have to agree with you about reactor
I have not used it in max 6 that much but in max 5 I used
it to distribute force and it did not preform that well
I eventully pulled it off before the court date but not with
out a little brute force and a lot of 24 hour days.
Anyway thanks for any thing that you can contribute.

cyberdogs7
03-26-2004, 04:16 AM
I would first like to say, This thread is awesome. I am now all up to speed with everything, and I feel I can contribute now.

Allan, you are awesome, and I would love to buy your DVD also.

I just think that it's so cool that very one here is willing to help, that is something I find less and less these days.

Anyway, just sayin my hellos, and I'll be around

Breinmeester
03-26-2004, 07:53 AM
Allan, I did your 3dluvr fire tutorial (This one (http://www.3dluvr.com/content/article/83)) the other day. I used a more static object to light on fire and I think the scale was quite different too. I didn't get the motion to be as 'alife' as in your end result. Any tips? If you'd redo it with PFlow, what would you do differently? Is there a good alternative for that negative spherical wind?

loran
03-26-2004, 09:30 AM
I m curently working on a realistic flame using PF
here is one result

[http://forumel.free.fr/flamme/PF-Flamme8-sor.mov]

but remember, this is a work in progress !!

I just find a cool reference torch shot in a feature film.
I will work more closely to this live reference.

waiting your comments
:rolleyes:

amckay
03-26-2004, 04:56 PM
I've never had the liberty of working with any other TD's or fx artists up until I left Cutting Edge, so up until that point I had to figure everything out myself, research everything myself and never got to bang heads with other people, as especially in Aus in max there just weren't any other fx people around.
I kind of am suprised a little after starting freelancing and doing the rounds around all the big maya and max studios that people are in fact pretty tight about their 'secrets' as if other people find out how to do them then they'll be replacable.
Personally I think that's BS, and if you're just doing the same ol tricks job to job you're eventually going to become outdated anyway. I think the real challenge is to continue to build new tools and techniques and expand your knowledgebase.

That's why I think it's great that this pflow threads started, as everyone (especially KaMe and Deetee) are really throwing in their two cents about how to go about specific effects and really showing off some good techniques they've come across, which is great to see! Hopefully as things progress there'll be more and more people out there doing the same.


Brainmeester, yeah my tut is extremely old now. One big issue max has, is that everyone works at different scales, and it really impacts the overall look of things (especially with dynamics and particles) when scene scales change.
Deetee (I think it was deetee) did a cool tut on fire, check that out? the dvd has some fire based stuff although it's more explosions. But will try and go back to the basics with smoke and fire soon with pflow ;)

loran cool fire! colour and density might need a bit of changing, overall it's pretty dang sweet! ;)

Rens
03-26-2004, 08:19 PM
Hey guys, great thread you got here! It seems I'm also hooked on particles/PFlow now ;)
I've tried Allan's 'dissipating sphere' tutorial two or three days ago, and here are the results (btw, your site is one of the best I've come across):

First tries; I've used shape instance on an object with 4 tri's, which didn't make my pc very happy, but it worked allright:

First image (http://www.am-ende.net/3dmax/images/Lab/PFlow01L.jpg)

Second image (http://www.am-ende.net/3dmax/images/Lab/PFlow02L.jpg)

First image (http://www.am-ende.net/3dmax/images/Lab/PFlow03L.jpg)


The smaller images actually look cooler because the instances are too big. Anyway, then I read DeeTee's fire tutorial and found out about mapping the particles and about not using instances :)

MOVIE (http://www.am-ende.net/3dmax/movies/lab/PFlow01.avi) (DivX, 6MB)

I found one thing missing with your fire tutorial DeeTee :surprised:
You forgot to tell you also have to set the opacity ramp to radial and that you have to switch the black and white one way or another. Other than that, it's a really great tutorial!

After that I wanted to try if I could make the Earth disappear like that. What I tried was when I made the deflector (the one to make the particles flow with the wind) I also made a sphere with the same diameter and then scaled them both along the Z axis. Then I used boolean on a copy of the 'Earth' and the scaled sphere. I made sure the Earth sphere had enough polys so I wouldn't need to use meshsmooth. Then made the scaled sphere and the inactive particles non-renderable. The effect is a disappearing (hollow) globe and particles appearing at the rim.
You guys perhaps know of a better way of doing this?
And is it also possible to use the object's colour, with glow, and not have it affected by its background. Because when I use a light coloured globe the glow around the particles was also very light in front of the globe and a PAge map in both the glow and diffuse didn't seem to work. I could do it in PS, but it's easier with glow.

Thanks all, and hope to see more good posts :bowdown:

amckay
03-26-2004, 09:12 PM
Hey guys, putting up a new video tutorial, it's one of the old bad quality ones. But I think the subject is pretty important as it goes through a lot of the initial concepts of manipulating particles in max. A majority of this is parray, although the concepts are still all the same, and I'm sure there'll be a lot of stuff in there that'll be cool to check out.

I did this about 6 months ago, although basically haven't had the bandwidth to put it up, the quality is pretty horrible, although if you look past that hopefully this will be worth the download.

particles 101 - http://www.allanmckay.com/tut/particles_101_A.avi
50mb

deetee
03-26-2004, 10:28 PM
Been looking alot on theos explosion file, and must say it rox. Have learned heaps and heaps of how to make cool smoke materials for particles. And using spheres really add some volumetrics to the dish.

So thanx to him I've had alot of fun these past days creating a rocketexhaust thing.

Video (http://www.dagthomasolsen.com/wip/rocket/explode.avi)

Also in the works is a more.. hefty version of the same render. With a more powerful explosion. Thanx for learning me how to make niceass materials theo, all respect! :)

http://www.dagthomasolsen.com/wip/rocket/wow.jpg

Allan: The new "old" tutorial was pretty sweet! This just makes me more anxious till the DVD release.. Im scared to think of the powers I will have between my hands.. Like Frodo and that damned ring! :)

And it finished this morning ( www.dagthomasolsen.com/wip/rocket/explode2.avi)

But it kinda looked all weird.. Didnt want to test with too many particles, so there are just too few of them, but anyways. Ill try afterburn today - maybe some real volumetrics will do the trick.

Latest render ( www.dagthomasolsen.com/wip/rocket/explode3.avi)

deetee
03-27-2004, 11:43 AM
Hey KaMe, Allan - or any of you other scriptkiddies :) Anyone know how to make a cript that :

When a particle hits a deflector it scales the noisecontroller of the camera up a bit. So it would be procedural so I dont have to go inn and add those damned keyframes ( hey, im lazy! ) That would be pretty cool, could get some better effects that way.

KaMe
03-27-2004, 12:21 PM
Hey, i don't think its possible to scale the noisecontroller, but you can add some simple random keyframes to your camera.
Try this:
(Check the image attached)
On the 'Script Operator' add this:

on Proceed pCont do
(
count = pCont.NumParticles()
for i in 1 to count do
(
pCont.particleIndex = i
sf = $Camera
sfx = sf.pos.x
sfxmin = sfx - 20
sfxmax = sfx + 20
sfy = sf.pos.y
sfymin = sfy - 20
sfymax = sfy + 20
sfz = sf.pos.z
sfzmin = sfz - 20
sfzmax = sfz + 20
tempo = slidertime
tempo0 = tempo-1
tempo2 = tempo+(random 1 2)
tempo3 = tempo2+(random 1 5)
tempo4 = tempo3+(random 1 4)
animate on
(
at time tempo0 sf.pos = sf.pos
at time tempo sf.pos = random [sfxmin,sfymin,sfzmin] [sfxmax,sfymax,sfzmax]
at time tempo2 sf.pos = random [sfxmin,sfymin,sfzmin] [sfxmax,sfymax,sfzmax]
at time tempo3 sf.pos = random [sfxmin,sfymin,sfzmin] [sfxmax,sfymax,sfzmax]
)
)
)


Where $Camera is the name of your camera...
After that, just press play and wait until the timeslider gets to the last frame, then you can turn off the 'Script Operator', and you'll see some random keyframes in your camera...

This script is really simple, you still can improve it a lot...

Tell me if this is what you had in mind :~]

amckay
03-29-2004, 11:58 PM
hey that's a cool idea ;)

deetee
03-30-2004, 01:03 AM
I didnt get it working :( I sux.. hehe.. Never used one of those scripts before.. I added a new script, removed everything, added what KaMe said and replaced "$camera" with "Camera01" - But nothing shook up tho .. ehhe ..

amckay
03-30-2004, 02:24 AM
should work, maybe not replace all of a default script operator just the proceed area, and make sure you don't leave any extra "(" & ")"'s in there.

there's nothing else that really requires any extra work so should work fine?
throw me yer scene and i'll pick it apart if you don't have any luck and KaMe's still awal.

Allan

PiXeL_MoNKeY
03-30-2004, 06:00 AM
deetee: whenever you are refering to objects with maxscript the object name must be preceeded by $...ie your camera should be $Camera01 and not Camera01.

Hope that helps.
-cire0321

Rens
03-30-2004, 12:42 PM
I tried the script also, used it instead of the normal "on Proceed pCont do" and also used $Camera01, which is also the camera I use. But no keys were added. I used a collision test, and after that I used the script operator in a new event along with another display operator. The colour changed, but the script didn't seem to.

But is it also possible to have something like this instead of the "at time..." line?

at time tempo $Camera01.modifiers[#Noise].strength = [0,0,10]

Cabbage
03-30-2004, 07:21 PM
I'm one of the many people trying to figure out how to work this particle system. I think we should have particle flow challenges, where we all try to create a particle system using a real life situation. For example, the Bacardi commercial with the ice breaking into bits. After the challenge ends, we should all post our scenes so others can learn. Anyone down with this idea? :buttrock:

amckay
03-30-2004, 08:17 PM
Yeah or better yet, I can throw you guys some tasks... like timelapsing tree's leaves shedding in a transition to winter, vamps dying and snow storms, and you can email me when it's all done - I'll be at the beach kicking back knowing all my 3d work's being done for me ;)

yeah cgtalk needs to have fx challenges, great way to learn if you're put into those kind of scenarios.

Rens Heeren, sorry mate I completely didn't see your post. Great video! RE: Your Q, ack kinda in crunch mode (last day of a project) but if you're still having that prob - throw me an email and I'll try to get back to you.
cool work!

Nando3D
03-31-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Cabbage
I'm one of the many people trying to figure out how to work this particle system. I think we should have particle flow challenges, where we all try to create a particle system using a real life situation.

yep that sound good... where about something like this Video special FX movie (http://www.ghettobase.com/media/humantarget.wmv)

how can we do that..:applause: .....

nando

KaMe
03-31-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Rens Heeren
I tried the script also, used it instead of the normal "on Proceed pCont do" and also used $Camera01, which is also the camera I use. But no keys were added. I used a collision test, and after that I used the script operator in a new event along with another display operator. The colour changed, but the script didn't seem to.

But is it also possible to have something like this instead of the "at time..." line?

at time tempo $Camera01.modifiers[#Noise].strength = [0,0,10]


Hey,
Don't know if this is the problem, but, the '$' just have to go inside the script code.
Like this:
You have a sphere named 'Sphere01'. Inside the script operator you refer to it as' $Sphere01'.

And yes, you can use $.modifiers[#noise].strength = [0,0,0].
(But in a Camera object a noise modifier has some nasty results :p )

Originally posted by Nando3D
yep that sound good... where about something like this Video special FX movie

how can we do that.. :applause: .....

You just have to find someone to shoot at :D

deetee
03-31-2004, 10:33 PM
Hey, I want to blow up a car for testing fragments etc.

This :

http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/360modena3.jpg

Will be the subject to blow up. Any inputs on how a good car blowup can be done? Not thinking the explosion itself but the fragments etc and how do do it.. Havent blown any cool objects up before ( none that had any good results that is )

Any input is apprichiated :)

amckay
03-31-2004, 10:39 PM
When you blow up a car the frame as far as I know is kept in tact, working on some stuff which has cars blowing up right now, and you see the windscreen shoot off and all lots of debris/tires etc. flying through the air, but the frame of the car pretty much raises up in the air and burns to a crisp. so having it break into splinters of wood is a bad idea ;)

Primarily focusing on a large plume explosion and lots of smoke and lots of fine debris/glass is probably a good start.
Although fragment it to hell if you want :)

BigRanS123
03-31-2004, 10:40 PM
The one thing that I can say, is that you do not want the exposition to look like it is place on top of the car coming apart. You may want to set up some of the body panels as deflectors while using reactor to deform and push the panels apart and when you have a good feel to the body flinging apart then add in the P-flow to get a good intermingling of gasses and particles interacting with the car body.

KaMe
03-31-2004, 11:03 PM
i think it would be cool to see a tire in fire ( :cool: ) flying against the camera.

And here is something i did this afternoon (got tired of studying :surprised), nothing special :

Bees Preview (http://fire.prohosting.com/kame3d/Bees.avi) (3Mb)

Bees Render (http://fire.prohosting.com/kame3d/Bees_render.avi) (3Mb)

amckay
04-01-2004, 05:32 PM
Cool work KaMe
couldn't view the render yesterday only the preview for some reason but all good.

You americans are wierd with yer april fools jokes... that's all I can say!

Cabbage
04-01-2004, 05:48 PM
Deetee:
Allan has made some stuff that deforms a car and makes glass shards fly out from the windows when a car crashes into a wall. I beleive he has some movies on http://www.AllanMcKay.com.
The glass can be easily done, but I'm wondering how Allan did the car morphing.

amckay
04-01-2004, 06:26 PM
it's on the dvd ;)

Ack will try and get this out the door asap, just sorting out paypal stuff right now, just realising how long everythings taken, not a huge fan of the business side of things - layered on top of work too.

You yanks are crazy with your April fools day stuff by the way, I'm afraid to leave the office today ;)

-Allan

JeffPatton
04-01-2004, 06:39 PM
chaosgroup has added a few more examples of AURA here:

http://www.chaosgroup.com/software/AURA/

Man, I would love to test this system. Since I haven't seen it mentioned here, I thought I would post the link. :thumbsup:

treed
04-01-2004, 07:23 PM
Yeah, AURA sure does look sexy. The shader on the smoke is I think the best i've seen ever. Two words to describe it, Friggin Awesome!:)

Cabbage
04-01-2004, 07:26 PM
WOW those smoke shaders on the left do look awesome :eek:
Looks like this will be a real competitor to Afterburn!
What I want to know is the particle setup they used for it. The shape of the smoke in the early stage resembles the shape of a nuclear explosion if you look at it closely.

KMAnStudios
04-01-2004, 08:15 PM
Phoenix was an atmospheric renderer...Aura may be as well, so there may not be any particles inviolved unless you want to create a particle system and make it burn like you did with Phoenix. I think they are approaching the philosophy of behaviour on fluid dynamics.

amckay
04-01-2004, 08:42 PM
AURA is a voxel based fluid simulator roughly based around J. Stam's papers - completely different to how afterburn and other volumetric shaders work in terms of application.
Afterburn's main focus is as a raymarcher shader to be applied to particles, it's pretty basic in terms of what it is - it creates a sphere on every particle and pipes into a shader which controls it's look. So essentially it feeds off of a dumb particle with the only information being the velocity and other basic paramters.

AURA is a voxel based fluid application (not fluid dynamics RE: Realflow, glu3d etc). Which isn't really particle based, the way it works is it relise a lot more on distributing additional information rather than normal particles which are essentially 'dumb particles' and only hold information such as velocity, collision information etc.
So matching AB and AURA up isn't really a fair comparison as they are fairly different ;)
Fluids you do lose a lot of control over what you're doing and simulation and rendering times get extremely steep. As it's more of a scion where you're plugging in real values of information such as boyancy, heat distribution/tempreture values etc. so these things really control the overall flow of things. Then with fire algorithms with the addition of fuel you can get some really cool effects going - although simulating it is never realtime.

AURA's looking great, and I can't wait to see how it progresses as the two Chaos Group guys are definitely a bunch of bright lads.

Bobo
04-01-2004, 10:31 PM
Ok, I know I am VERY late into this discussion, but here is a first attempt to hack a solution:

This one uses a sphere with a noise and a bitmap texture.

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/stuff/cgtalk/PFlowInheritUVs_Noisesphere.avi

This one uses the venerable teapot with a procedural Cellular map.

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/stuff/cgtalk/PFlowInheritUVs_Teapot.avi


Basically, it uses a Script Operator which calculates the UV coordinates on the surface of the emitter and sets the UV coordinates of every single shape to the same value. Obviously, with some more tweaking, it could even steal parts of the UV space (different UV value per vertex per shape) for even cooler effects as described below. I will play with that option and see what it brings.

I used more complex shapes than a plane or a box because I wanted to make sure it works with arbitrary geometry. A plane was the first thing I tried though :)

Cheers,
Bobo

P.S. Just wanted to note that PFlow was used heavily in the final sequence of Scooby Doo 2 at Frantic Films (Winnipeg), especially for the tar monster explosion. Almost all chunks and particles in those shots were animated using ParticleFlow, partially dumping data back to keyframes for eventual tweaking (which was almost never necessary). Funnily enough, for the explosion sequence I went to my own website and applied the Force Influence by Mass technique described there ;)


Originally posted by SteveScout
Another question for PFlow, maybe you've already come across a solution for this ?

We need to create Particles from a plane or box (which has an applied bitmap on it) that take the color information out of the UVWMap where the particles "sit" initially on the surface - with particleArray this is very easy since one can tell the object fragments to get their mapping information from the particle source -- but we cant find a proper solution for this for PFlow.


Usage for this technique might be a (flat) image which starts to float or is "destroyed" by other objects colliding etc. -- while keeyping the bitmap/color information that they initally had and not having the whole bitmap mapped on each particle.

thanks guys!

Steffen

amckay
04-01-2004, 10:44 PM
Hey Bobo, welcome to this ever growing post, definitely will be great to have your input in future in here.

Yeah I feel for you guys with scooby, I was lucky enough to work for Frantic on the project from back in Australia as I had to wait around in my home country whilst my US visa was processed to go over to DD. But it was an awesome experience to work on Scoobs - although frustrating being out of contact with everyone, I mostly feel sorry for Grant having to baby sit my renders and deal with all the problems with my bad pflow pipelines ;)

But pflow and Afterburn was used so heavily for the end stuff, with both my randomonium stuff and Chris Harvey's fire extinguishers etc. Plus all the stuff you were explaining.
I had asked Grant and Laslo to try and build exactly what you had described for when the monsters turn to ash, so I think in the end I had to use parray for that piece as they couldn't come up with a quick solution. Although I'm talking with Oleg B now about something similiar. Is that script operator available publically? or is it frantics property?

Great to see you on the forums, hope your input will help us all out in the future ;) Hope you're not feeling too alone there now the other scripting monkeys have gone back to their designated countries ;)

-Allan

Bobo
04-01-2004, 11:20 PM
Hey dude, it is nice to have some time to stop by and say Hi :)

I was searching for "Scooby" on CGTalk and hit this thread, and while reading it I found the idea about inheriting UVs (I sort of needed it in the past and knew it would be difficult).
Since I had some personal RnD time today, I just started writing some tests. Will post the script (will be free, obviously) as soon as I feel comfortable with its look - it is still rather hacky, but it works.

Wpg is not so cold anymore, and I survived to -35 oC, you know, I am not Australian ;o)

Cheers,
Bobo


Originally posted by amckay
Bobo! How's it going mate?!
Is that script up on yer site or anything? or is it proprietry stuff for Frantic?

Hope you're enjoying the cold in wnpg, Ryan Grobins is popping over to LA next week, give him a clip around the ears before he leaves Canada ;)

And welcome to the ever growing pflow post, it'll be great to have your input in here as well.

amckay
04-02-2004, 12:17 AM
I'm sure Grants transition back to Melbourne probably made winter over there summer :)

Cool man that's great to hear, it's driven me nuts so many times now that I couldn't camera map or texture stuff like that in the past. Awesome work on scoobs btw ;)

Reality3D
04-02-2004, 12:30 AM
Ip, a simple test with particle flow
http://www.telefonica.net/web/r3d/plantas.avi
(divx)

Anyone knows some way to trigger
animation/clips to drive complex
animation with the events?

Bobo
04-02-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by amckay

Cool man that's great to hear, it's driven me nuts so many times now that I couldn't camera map or texture stuff like that in the past. Awesome work on scoobs btw ;)


Thanks!

Here is a test of an image plane with 40x40 segments.
Rather low-res particles, but you get the idea :)

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/stuff/cgtalk/PFlowInheritUVs_BitmapPlane.avi

Now I am going to try projecting UVs to all vertices of the particle instead of having the particle inherit only one UV value...

Bobo

Bobo
04-02-2004, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by Bobo

Now I am going to try projecting UVs to all vertices of the particle instead of having the particle inherit only one UV value...



Turned out to be much easier than I expected!

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/stuff/cgtalk/PFlowInheritUVs_BitmapPlaneFullUV.avi

At the border particles, the outer vertices do not hit the geometry below so they don't know what to show, that's why there is a strange pattern on them...

Cheers,
Bobo

Bobo
04-02-2004, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Bobo
Turned out to be much easier than I expected!


A slightly heavier one, using spherical particles instead of boxes (so more UVs to scan).

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/stuff/cgtalk/PFlowInheritUVs_BitmapBriceSphericalParticles.avi

Shows the Bryce image found in the \Maps\Backgrounds folder of Max...

Cheers,
Bobo

treed
04-02-2004, 01:06 AM
Thats some really amazing scripting stuff Bobo. Heres my conclusion, I think you should make a MAXscript training DVD that has beginner-advanced content. You'd definetely be one of my customers. :thumbsup:

amckay
04-02-2004, 01:43 AM
That's great bobo, I've been hassling laszlo and grant for months for this, they're demoted ;)
buy you a beer at siggy
you popping over to frantic LA office anytime soon? Noticed one or two canadian guys have jumped over there occasionally.

groovy! Let meknow if you need any testers ;)

Reality3D
04-02-2004, 03:16 AM
First test simulating a crowd system (a lot of bugs :))
http://www.telefonica.net/web/r3d/p_crowd1.avi

KMAnStudios
04-02-2004, 03:21 AM
Shades of Lawnmower Man!! That's some sweet work there Bobo. i'm still digging deeper into MXS. Your scripts are actually making sense to me now...can't wait to see this doozy!

Eric

Bezerker75
04-02-2004, 03:04 PM
ok, I guess this is the place to ask this question:
Is there a way in particle flow to have an object emitt particles that will find an animated target and once they find the target they bind to it (or lock to its's surface) and continue to move with the target as it continues moving around? for instance: one sphere emitts particles that find another sphere that is animated, once particles contact the moving sphere they stick to it's surface where they hit....hopefully this is clear, but i have tried a few different ways to get this but it seems the don't want to lock to the surface. any help would be awesome!! thanks in advance!
-Mike

Bobo
04-02-2004, 04:26 PM
Yep, it is possible.

Here is a MAX 5.1 scene

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/stuff/cgtalk/SeeklAndStick_01.max

Works in 6.x too.
Load and take a look at the flow...

Bobo


Originally posted by Bezerker75
ok, I guess this is the place to ask this question:
Is there a way in particle flow to have an object emitt particles that will find an animated target and once they find the target they bind to it (or lock to its's surface) and continue to move with the target as it continues moving around? for instance: one sphere emitts particles that find another sphere that is animated, once particles contact the moving sphere they stick to it's surface where they hit....hopefully this is clear, but i have tried a few different ways to get this but it seems the don't want to lock to the surface. any help would be awesome!! thanks in advance!
-Mike

Bobo
04-02-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by amckay
That's great bobo, I've been hassling laszlo and grant for months for this, they're demoted ;)
buy you a beer at siggy
you popping over to frantic LA office anytime soon? Noticed one or two canadian guys have jumped over there occasionally.

groovy! Let meknow if you need any testers ;)


Ok, the basics of the hack are described here:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__inherit_UV.htm

Included is a max 5.1 scene and all videos posted to this thread.
Note that this is just a hack!

I might document the advanced version (stealing a UV per vertex) if I have some time, but you could try implemeting it yourself based on this basic setup...

Cheers,
Bobo

KMAnStudios
04-02-2004, 08:24 PM
Thanks Bobo...i jsust got hit with a DVD Documentary so I won't be able to properly evaluate the script, but thanks for posting it!!

Eric

amckay
04-02-2004, 09:24 PM
blasthemy!
hellboy's up tonight, going with a bunch of dd and blur guys, should be awesome to see. orphanage did a lot of stuff in max for the movie

Bezerker75
04-03-2004, 04:02 AM
hey Bobo thanks for the file, I hadn't even considered doing it that way, it's not exactly what i was looking for but i think it may pass. what i was really looking for is some way for the particle to lock exactly where it hits the target object...I tried using a find target then kick it out to a spawn particle if the find target gets within .01 of target and give the the spawned particle a speed of 0 units....it works perfectly on a still object, and even on an object that has a noise modifier on it...but as soon as you move the object...the spawned particles don't move with the target....I think the way you have it may work if the action happens with lost of partcles so you don't notice where they hit, I will have to keep that in my back pocket, in your example file the particles don't bind where they hit....they form randomly on the target surface....the animation I am working on requires that they lock to where they hit, But thanks for giving me a work around incase it gets down to the wire!

KMAnStudios
04-03-2004, 03:16 PM
I don't have MAX open at the moment, but in the lock on target rollout, isn't there a choice for continuous update? I think that let's particles fallow an animated object 9as long as they stay locked on..otherwise they read the geometry once and then continue on their initail path).

Eric

Bobo
04-03-2004, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by amckay
blasthemy!
hellboy's up tonight, going with a bunch of dd and blur guys, should be awesome to see. orphanage did a lot of stuff in max for the movie

Half Frantic (Wpg) went to Hellboy last night (Friday).
I LOVED the movie (I think everybody did).
Exactly the right dose of dark humour, action, romance, special effects and historical references for me :)

Cheers,
Bobo

Rens
04-04-2004, 08:39 PM
Hey. I think I have an idea to give a camera some shaking without having to add keys (DeeTee's question). All in PFLow.
I was paying a visit to Boboland (nice scripts btw!) and I think you can shake a camera by using something similar like Bobo's Ride the Flow tutorial.
Basically (haven't tried it yet) the setup would be something like this:
Make a new particle source and have it emit one particle. Then create a spherical deflector around it. Give the particle some speed, it will then bounce around in the sphere (or box, or whatever). Then you link the camera to the particle as described in Bobo's tutorial.
Activate the 'shaking particle' just when, for instance, a flaming meteor pulverizes your average little village.
The problem still would be to scale down the transformation, as a Drag wouldn't do well here (you'd see the camera slowly moving in one direction and then finally stop instead of shaking less and less). So is it possible to scale the transformation somewhat?

Rens

Bobo
04-04-2004, 09:24 PM
Thanks for the flowers! :)

This is a funny idea, it reminds me of the "Better Mouse Trap" or "Incredible Machine" systems that do easy things in an overly complicated manner ;)

Why not use a regular noise controller in a list controller as everybody does to shake a camera?

Just curious...

Bobo

Originally posted by Rens Heeren
Hey. I think I have an idea to give a camera some shaking without having to add keys (DeeTee's question). All in PFLow.
I was paying a visit to Boboland (nice scripts btw!) and I think you can shake a camera by using something similar like Bobo's Ride the Flow tutorial.

Rens

Rens
04-04-2004, 09:36 PM
Hehe, yea, perhaps it's because I used to play The Incredible Machine a lot back then :)

But this is what it's about (page 27 I think):
Originally posted by deetee
Hey KaMe, Allan - or any of you other scriptkiddies :) Anyone know how to make a cript that :

When a particle hits a deflector it scales the noisecontroller of the camera up a bit. So it would be procedural so I dont have to go inn and add those damned keyframes ( hey, im lazy! ) That would be pretty cool, could get some better effects that way.

So what I described could do that as there will be no keyframes in sight for miles and it all happens automatically with particles.
Correct me if I'm wrong because I don't animate things often and I just started to dig into PFlow.

Rens

KaMe
04-04-2004, 10:06 PM
You could use the same script that i posted, just without the 'animate on' line.
I think that its better with 'animate on' so that you get keyframes in your camera, and then you can turn off the script and tweak some keys if needed...

And Great to see you on this thread Bobo! Your MAXScript/PFlow tuts are awesome :thumbsup:

Rens
04-04-2004, 10:22 PM
I didn't get it to work KaMe, but I'll give it another try tomorrow when I have some time. :)

Bobo
04-04-2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by deetee
Hey KaMe, Allan - or any of you other scriptkiddies :) Anyone know how to make a cript that :

When a particle hits a deflector it scales the noisecontroller of the camera up a bit. So it would be procedural so I dont have to go inn and add those damned keyframes ( hey, im lazy! ) That would be pretty cool, could get some better effects that way.


Ok, here is my take on this:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_CameraShakeOnCollision_03.max

(54K, Max 5.1, should work in newer versions)

What it does is manipulating the Camera's Noise Controller strength from within a Script Operator, so everytime a particle hits a deflector, a shake proportional to the size and speed of the particle is produced. The same script also calculates a decay so after a while the noise strength falls against zero and the shaking is gone.

Fully procedural setup, no keyframes added.
The only thing that needs attention is the name of the Camera inside the script - it has to match the actual camera used, and the camera MUST have a Noise controller in the second slot of a List controller. (slot one if for interactive changes)

Here is a small sample movie:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PF_CameraShakeOnCollision_03.avi

(OGL Preview, 2.7 MB Cinepak Codec, so everybody can watch it)

The operators and the script are commented, please dissect the scene and use it as starting point.

A Boboland Tutorial to follow later...

Cheers,
Bobo

loran
04-05-2004, 07:34 AM
great work Kame!!!
could u explain the way u do this?
The behavior is so realistic.
If i would do that, I think that the orientation of the bees could be problematic cause they can't be speed folow oriented when they do small hesitation around their point of interest.
could u tell us your method?


mmmmmh, my english is so baaaaad this morning <:/

TexeL
04-06-2004, 09:04 PM
hi Video Tut (http://freenet.am/~space3d/pflowforest.rar) about Forest :) like in Allan's Video ...

hyenen
04-06-2004, 09:38 PM
hmm i can see that ther are some peoble in her there have some experience whit max sooo my question is...... if i want a PFlow collide whit reactor water and make the ripples in the water how can i do that, do i have to write a script or is there a easyer way?
but if i have to write a script, i cant dont now how, so could someone help me whit that?
that would be so cool thanks :D

loran
04-07-2004, 08:30 AM
mmm
the question is what do you wanna do ?
Actually, pf generated geometry can't be selected as a RigidBody...
I am not a scripter,but I saw a simple example (PF_Scripted Lights Example_01.max)on discreet.com where OmniLights (that can't be instanced particles) were linked automaticaly on PFparticle.
You could do the same with rigidBodies...
the idea is to create your geometries (box01,box02...) in your
scene, the script align the differents geometries to each particle transform using the particle ID.

here is the max file example
[http://forumel.free.fr/PF_ScriptedLightsExample_01.zip]

loran
04-07-2004, 08:49 AM
mmmm...
after a few test, I can easily link objects to particle.
But this might be difficult. because reactor need keyframesfor unyielding objects to detect where they are at each frame.
basically, you can't use a linked object as a rigid bodies.
you will need to define keys for each frame for each RB...
using another script !
this is becoming pretty brain dead :/



[http://forumel.free.fr/PF-ReactorWater.zip]

loran
04-07-2004, 10:40 AM
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
me again !
am I alone here???:surprised

juste want to post my PF-Torch

I m waiting for your comments

[http://forumel.free.fr/flamme/PF-Flamme11.mov]


here is a live reference (Dragon Slayer,1981)
I so far from this ...

[http://forumel.free.fr/torch00.mov]

deetee
04-07-2004, 12:28 PM
Hey Loran! That is actually pretty cool! Good work on the torchflame :D If you work some more on the material and have smaller size particles and maybe a little more blur, It would be near perfect, keep it up! :P

Breinmeester
04-07-2004, 12:50 PM
W_w, Loran! You really nailed the speed and look oof the particles there!! Any chance on a scene or a walkthrough? :D

loran
04-07-2004, 02:14 PM
I will post the file soon
but I would like to perfect it

the render is quite fast
less than 1 sec/frame on a dual Xeon 2.8Ghz

I will perform the shader

Rens
04-07-2004, 02:17 PM
Everything's fast on a dual Xeon 2.8GHz :)
But the flame is looking very nice Loran!

Nando3D
04-07-2004, 03:29 PM
can i ask for your opinion....( Pflow vs Maya particle system)
I know PFlow is very good but can Maya particles do better than PFlow? and how easy is to use Maya's Particles system..

I really like Pflow and is easy to use.. specially when allan and everyone else in this post is helping...

I will get my hands on MayaPE very soon.

Thanks:wip:

nando

Bobo
04-07-2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by loran
mmmm...
after a few test, I can easily link objects to particle.
But this might be difficult. because reactor need keyframesfor unyielding objects to detect where they are at each frame.
basically, you can't use a linked object as a rigid bodies.
you will need to define keys for each frame for each RB...
using another script !
this is becoming pretty brain dead :/



[http://forumel.free.fr/PF-ReactorWater.zip]


Why, it is actually getting easier!

Write a short script which reads the positions of N particles (outside of PFlow, not as a Script Operator) and with animate on places N objects on every frame to the same positions.
This will give you N animated objects with keyframes on every frame. ("Animation Baking")

Remember, a shot must not be necessarily procedural (all the time) - this is not a computer game and pressing a button to update the keyframes after some changes in PFlow is not so bad, if the final result is cool. Especially when you have to resim the Reactor collisions again anyway...

So a non-procedural approach is not necessarily bad, it is just slightly less "cool" :)

my 2 cents.

loran
04-07-2004, 04:29 PM
ok Bobo
you re the Lord of the Script, everybody know that.
It s easy for u
but I am not a scripter!
Wright the script you are speaking about
It looks interesting anyway...

And we don't know what "hyenen" want to do really!

amckay
04-07-2004, 05:38 PM
Nando3d:
If you're going to use maya you're going to need to code pretty much everything if you're going to do anything relatively complex.

Pflow wins hands down in terms of functionality with ease of use.
Maya tends to handle code faster than pflow's scripting operators currently do, but that's just if you're wanting to write your own emitters and tell the particles to do relatively complicated tasks opposed to the standard flow stuff.

As long as you can control particles on a per particle basis, there's no plugin or package that can do something that all other packages can't do - it's just a matter of how easy it is to do that, and having rule based or event driven particles are a lot easier to make things work rather than having blocks of variables.

Reality3D
04-07-2004, 08:40 PM
Take this loran. The objects use the format
mesh1
mesh2
mesh3
.
.
.
mesh*

The script is commented so you can learn

P.D:Noboy saw my tests? :hmm:

amckay
04-07-2004, 09:22 PM
yeah sorry been busy, haven't had a chance to really look through the last few posts over the last week yet propperly.
had a look at your script in notepad, very handy! Someone should start putting all these scenes and script operators togeather on a website.

Zag
04-07-2004, 09:40 PM
Hey deetee i tryed to acess your website with the tutorials you've made but they are offline :shrug: . Can you check it?

Alan sorry to bother, but how is the commercialization of dvd?

Thanks
Best regards
zag

amckay
04-07-2004, 09:59 PM
RE: DVD, Good! I realized I'm far too busy and there's no way in hell this will ever see the light of day!

So I'm now going to pass it on to a company that will make sure it seems the light of day and meets the quality assurance that it needs.
Only made the nervous call yesterday to do this, although there'll be more news to follow.
Hopefully once I get all this visa/tax/social security crap sorted out I can start cashing my pay checks over here and buy a pc so I can start working on some more free tutorials and other additional stuff as right now I can only really do any work at work and when I'm at work I work - get me? :)

So things are looking up, it's been done for so long and just there's no way I can find time to really focus on getting it out the door so having a big DVD or plugin distribution company take care of mastering/production and shipping will definitely take a load off and let me focus on just building the content. So feel free to keep emailing me and I'll email everyone once everythings sorted.

Rens
04-07-2004, 10:24 PM
Zag, I had the same problem recently, but somehow I found out it's this link: http://www.dagthomasolsen.com/

Oh, and Allan, good luck with the DVD, I hope to see it soon.
Count me in for one :)

Rens

Reality3D
04-08-2004, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by Bezerker75
hey Bobo thanks for the file, I hadn't even considered doing it that way, it's not exactly what i was looking for but i think it may pass. what i was really looking for is some way for the particle to lock exactly where it hits the target object...I tried using a find target then kick it out to a spawn particle if the find target gets within .01 of target and give the the spawned particle a speed of 0 units....it works perfectly on a still object, and even on an object that has a noise modifier on it...but as soon as you move the object...the spawned particles don't move with the target....I think the way you have it may work if the action happens with lost of partcles so you don't notice where they hit, I will have to keep that in my back pocket, in your example file the particles don't bind where they hit....they form randomly on the target surface....the animation I am working on requires that they lock to where they hit, But thanks for giving me a work around incase it gets down to the wire!

Look at this example. Speed by icon linked to the target object. If you don't apply the script you will have some lag applied to the particles.

loran
04-08-2004, 07:53 AM
Alan :"Someone should start putting all these scenes and script operators togeather on a website."

Good Idea
I launch a big Calling:
"Who could do simple html web site where collect all the script and Max scenes reported in this thread with a short description win my gratitude, and all PF users' too!"

huge work but so usefull!!
thanks for advance.

jason-slab
04-08-2004, 08:05 AM
great work guys!!

Bobo and Reality3D: i'v been trying something similar, but more like a magnet attracting metal shavings, to closer ones attach to the target(magnet), the outer shavings just move, the further they are away the less they move.

almost like a find target with a falloff/softselection. any ideas? i'm not really getting anywhere on this one

thx guys
|jason

jason-slab
04-08-2004, 08:08 AM
what about this link, setup a while back

http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/index.php

by the name, a guess it would be deetee's link

|jason

Nando3D
04-08-2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by amckay
Nando3d:
If you're going to use maya you're going to need to code pretty much everything if you're going to do anything relatively complex.

Pflow wins hands down in terms of functionality with ease of use.
Maya tends to handle code faster than pflow's scripting operators currently do, but that's just if you're wanting to write your own emitters and tell the particles to do relatively complicated tasks opposed to the standard flow stuff.

As long as you can control particles on a per particle basis, there's no plugin or package that can do something that all other packages can't do - it's just a matter of how easy it is to do that, and having rule based or event driven particles are a lot easier to make things work rather than having blocks of variables.

Thanks for your input Allan... hopping to see your DVD soon..

Nando

deetee
04-08-2004, 11:59 AM
Yeah, I moved my site over to http://www.dagthomasolsen.com/

loran: There is already a place to store everything about this thread, if ppl would just use it! :D

THE PARTICLEFLOW UPLOADER (http://frodo.hiof.no/~deetee/pfupload/)

In order to use this site efficiently, name the things you upload the same.

If you upload an explosion do it this way

[NICK]whatitis.avi
[NICK]whatitis.jpg
[NICK]whatitis.txt

So they will show under each other for easier indexing. In the .txt you put the description of the file.

Its a 1000mbit european server wich I have "unlimited" bandwidth.

Rens
04-08-2004, 01:45 PM
Deetee, I think you should put those links in your sig so more people see it.

Let's stress test that "unlimited" bandwith :)

Oh, and maybe add the instructions you just gave to the PFlow Uploader page.

Breinmeester
04-08-2004, 04:15 PM
And maybe put in the functionality of adding comments, or am I asking a bit too much here?:D

deetee
04-08-2004, 04:59 PM
@ Rens : Done :) Signature now shows what to do and where to do it.

@Breinmeester : Well - thats why we have CGTalk. We post the files etc on the uploader and we discuss them here :) Im too busy with other coding projects so I havent got time to add any functions. But in the future I will change the whole thing and make a more dynamic uploader. Then I will surely add commenting :)

Bobo
04-09-2004, 12:01 AM
Nothing fancy, just wanted to show somebody how to align particles to surface normals, and this is what came out...

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__Hairy_Teapot.htm

treed
04-09-2004, 12:12 AM
Hehe, thats awesome Bobo, neat idea. :applause:

Bezerker75
04-09-2004, 12:36 AM
Reality3D: Wow thanks man...that was a definate time saver! If only i could learn to script...ha...thank you sooooooooo much!
:beer:

deetee
04-09-2004, 02:40 AM
@ Bobo : Yeah, that is nice stuff. I was going to extend my grass tutorial by adding how to do that - but never got the time. When I was doing fur in PFlow some months ago that question really irritated be, since the fur would only go upwards - but finally figured it out like you did. Its a damned nice effect :) Tho a little harder on the render than shag/fur. But its nice for ppl like me with vanilla 3dsmax installed :)

Tho, if you really want to have some fun with it. Mix it with reactor and make it move realistically! ( And show me how to do it afterwards ) :p

Ian Jones
04-09-2004, 02:53 AM
Deetee, that link to the vray uploader is directing to the pflow area. Just thought I should let you know.

loran
04-09-2004, 07:31 AM
Great Bobo
And now... How can we apply Dynamical motion to that hairs ??
:D

Breinmeester
04-09-2004, 10:20 AM
Hmmm, how about some bones in the original shape with an IK solver. Link the solver to a dummy that has a spring constrain on its position and link that to the head bone of your character. Next check animated shape in the Shape Instance operator.

Would that work?? I might try that today after work's done.

hamu73
04-09-2004, 11:11 AM
Hi I have a question about Allans smoke tutorial...I don't really get this spreading of the smoke at the end of the particles lives...well I assume it's the wind spaces warps but I don't get the settings right??
Can anyone help me??

amckay
04-09-2004, 04:27 PM
Sorry I'm not too active on the forums right now, kinda in crunch mode.

At a glance I'd say check your drag doesn't end at 100 and then your animation goes for 200 frames or something, as that's what would cause it to spread.

Send me the file if you want, amckay@allanmckay.com and I'll take a look whenever I get the chance.

-Allan

CoolmoeDee
04-10-2004, 08:36 AM
Hi all,

I having some problems in getting max particles to move correctly with an object that's moving along at a really fast speed, it's basically moving along at some sort of wrap speed.

The particles keep shooting ahead of the object and it's starting to get really annoying. When you change the object inhertiance motion down to 0%, the motion of the particles come out in a puff, puff, puff motion. Anything above 0% motion inhertiance results in the particles shooting ahead of the objects. Instead of a nice constant stream of particles. It looks like the particles are having a real hard time in tracking the object.

I've tried linking the particles to the object using the various method like constraints, direct link, link to dummy then dummy to object.

I'm using max standard particles, I've tried particle flow and I'm getting the same problems. :cry: :cry:

If anyone have any ideas on the cause of the problem, that would be great.

TIA

Coolmoedee

JasperCG
04-10-2004, 12:58 PM
Some of this may be obvious, but if you are using PArray for example, make sure...

1. Speed =0
2. Inheritance =0
3. Rate is constant

Otherwise, I am not sure without taking a look at the file. Can you post the max file?

Tim

hamu73
04-10-2004, 03:52 PM
Thanks for your reply Allan....but it's not the drag...I think it's the settings of the wind....but I will try it once again...I will tell you if I made it the next several tries

CoolmoeDee
04-11-2004, 02:56 AM
Tim,

I've checked all these settings. I fiqured out the problem, l'll post my findings and some max files examples once I get the chance.

KaMe
04-11-2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by loran
great work Kame!!!
could u explain the way u do this?
The behavior is so realistic.
If i would do that, I think that the orientation of the bees could be problematic cause they can't be speed folow

oriented when they do small hesitation around their point of interest.
could u tell us your method?


Hey :] Sry for the delay.

There are 2 winds (with negative value and turbulence) inside, and linked, to the sphere. Also a Spherical Deflector just
so the bees wont go inside the sphere.
The attached file is an img of the flow.


I got bored last night and decided to do some twister animation. The little houses are based on Allan Mckays animation (I had so much fun doing it the first time (http://fire.prohosting.com/kame3d/Twister.avi) that i did it again ;]).

Link 1 (Small Divx Version - 1.7M) (http://fire.prohosting.com/kame3d/TornadoSmallDivx.avi)

And if anyone is interested:
Link 2 (Bigger Cinepak Version - 9M) (http://kame.freewebpage.org/tornado/)

Yeah, i had to split the file in small .rar files (Bad Web Host :/)

And here a preview frame of the animation:
http://kame3d.5u.com/Tornado_ss.jpg

And i have a MAXScript question that Bobo ( :rolleyes: ) or someone else can answer.
If i, accidentally, evaluate something like this:

for i = 1 to 100000000000 do
(
messagebox("Oh No")
)


Is there anyway of getting out of this loop???

Rens
04-11-2004, 05:10 PM
Looks nice, but the first link doesn't seem to work. I get the ad screen, but I can't download or save the file and when I refresh the page all I see is some garbled code... :shrug:

And: there is no attachment. :)

KaMe
04-11-2004, 05:23 PM
Hehe... Forgot to attach the file.

If the Link1 doesn't work, go HERE (http://fire.prohosting.com/kame3d/) and download the file named TornadoSmallDivx.avi.

Reality3D
04-11-2004, 06:07 PM
for i = 1 to 100000000000 do
(
messagebox("Oh No")
)


Is there anyway of getting out of this loop??? [/B]

1 press and hold ESC without fear
2 move and click left button mouse
3 goto 2 until listener says
** interrupted **
hehe

amckay
04-12-2004, 11:10 PM
KaMe I can't grab your file, rename it to something non avi so I can dl it without it dumping into media player and not working ;)

RE: Script, hold down escape and if that doesn't work hold down escape and click around a bit which stops it enough to refresh the new keyboard input whilst still holding down escape.

if you want it to ignore the rest of the loops and go through once instead of 1000000 times,

for i = 1 to 100000000000 do
(
messagebox("Oh No")
exit
)

then it'll do the thing once and jump out of the loop without repeating. But if you're just talking about getting out of freaky loops then hold escape and click around to get it to halt long enough to take the esc as a cancel opposed to an 'okay' er if that makes sense.


-- back to work.

PiledotNET
04-13-2004, 12:08 PM
Here's some tests based on Bobos Hairy Teapot tecnique.

If you guys want I can share que max files.

http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/hairwithparticles01.jpg

http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/hairwithparticles02.jpg

http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/hairwithparticles03.jpg

http://www.redpixel.com.br/forumajuda/hairwithparticles04.jpg

Best regards,

deetee
04-13-2004, 12:36 PM
Nice :D The bottom one was the coolest tho. With the old hairstrands looking all evil :)

I figured id do a full GI/FG test with it :

http://wip.dagthomasolsen.com/hairball.jpg

Breinmeester
04-13-2004, 03:00 PM
KaMe, I'm having a lot of trouble with downloading your files. Maybe you could upload them to Deetee's page?:D

Bobo
04-13-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by deetee
Nice :D The bottom one was the coolest tho. With the old hairstrands looking all evil :)

I figured id do a full GI/FG test with it :



It is fun to see all these hairballs around!

Now try this:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pf_hairy_potter.mov

:)

PiledotNET
04-13-2004, 04:59 PM
I was trying animate here to. What was you method Bobo?

What i did here was use the Mesher and convert the PFlow to an editable poly. Than apply a flex modifier and animate it.

Bobo
04-13-2004, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by PiledotNET
I was trying animate here to. What was you method Bobo?

What i did here was use the Mesher and convert the PFlow to an editable poly. Than apply a flex modifier and animate it.


That must have been slow!

My setup was near realtime.
Then rendered at 800x600 with 12 passes MPass MBlur in about 7 min/frame using Scanline.

Keep on trying, I am not going to post details for a while, so everyone can have some fun playing with the hair ;)

PiledotNET
04-13-2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Bobo
That must have been slow!

You're right :)

I can't have control over the animation leaving them been scattered by particle flow. If I move the object normaly with the gizmos, all particles folow it, but if it's a animated object, nothing happens.

What I'm missing?

deetee
04-13-2004, 06:10 PM
@ Bobo : Wow, that actually looks like some freaked-out pet :) Is that reactor you have going there? I lack skills in reactor but have been trying to get something like that working. I kinda know little about animation overall.. :)

Looks pretty cool tho!

But a few pointers on the way would be nice

BigRanS123
04-13-2004, 06:12 PM
Did you use spring weights to create the drag in the hair?