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amckay
09-06-2006, 05:47 PM
you son of a bitch
I was here two weeks ago, and living in santa monica.
don't walk out of the door without giving me yer friggin itinerary, you should know better ;)

PeteDraper
09-06-2006, 06:41 PM
big al - crapola! whereabouts in sm were you staying? I was up between california and 14th, spending most of my time wandering around 3rd st, propping a bar up in malibu and getting severely sloshed at the Kings Head, staggering about a mile or so back home. Met up with Daniel Manahan and Joel, one of his students, on the pier who stuck around for a gathering at my friend's place with a load of industry chaps. Thankfully I managed to miss the entire high security alert thing as I flew out of heathrow about 36 hours before it all kicked off. Getting back wasn't much of a problem apart from a bit more rigorous security just before boarding the plane.

pm - yeah still doing stuff for 3dw... actually that reminds me - got a deadline tomorrow..!

pete

PS this picture kinda sums up my state of alcohol-fuelled mind at the time :) Eyes aren't supposed to bend that way...

Matt-Clark
09-06-2006, 07:00 PM
Stay on topic please guys.

amckay
09-09-2006, 02:43 AM
oh dude I just hooked up with a girl at the kings head last week haha. she was about a blonde 9.5. from England on her way back through from Australia. She's a school teacher in London, 25 year old. Say hi if you bump into her ;) Kinds head is such a sucky place but I seem to always end up there every time I'm back in town.

I was saying on the edge of venice/Santa monica on washington blvd, not far from Blur's office.
I just finally invoiced 3dw for that nuke tut for maya I did back in dec! @#$% I'll have to make it over to England eventually. One day.

PS. that photo's messed up! haha
PPS. sorry didn't see the stay on topic post. but uh beer discussions are sometimes relevant to what we do aren't they? :)

Neejoh
09-10-2006, 03:21 PM
Agreed Allan, nothing tops a nice drinking story while doing those insane working hours, do they. And by the looks of it I'll be flying of to London :D I mean... 25yo blonde, with a sexy brittish accent....wait, now I crossed the line. Back to reality... :p

Besides that I wanna thank you for opening my eyes on that little script of yours with keeping age (Adv. VFX 2, tank explosion)... It's so freakin' simple but I never thought about it before and it works like a charm. Before I was F'ing around with ways to tell AB to just hold on without deleteing the particles... This is the ultimate solution for me. Haven't tried it in combination with the Freebie Camera Culling Operator, but it should work right?


Hey have you guys seen that Adidas commercial? Reminded me of that file Loran (I think?) made, that wall buildup with PFlow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpy-rUxvLGc&NR

amckay
09-11-2006, 04:38 AM
Cheers mate glad to hear it helped. Laszlo Sebo helped me a little with it. I had written I think close to if not that exact amount of lines for the script prior but when it came to recording I couldn't for the life of me remember how to get it to work so he helped me with it hah.

I feel kinda bad I've been meaning to do a lot of stuff and show off a lot of stuff this year with freebie tuts etc. It's truly been the busiest year of my life, between superman and running my own studio and spending most of my time in the states at Frantic and Blur I've honestly been so flat out I'm more worried about breaking down than actually getting any extra shit out there or jumping on forums. Which sucks as for myself this is the best way to not only share, but also to learn and get inspired to do what I do!

But alas for me in a few ways this years coming to an end. I'm going to take a month off when I go back to Aus and just relax, I might build up some new tools and maybe a dvd of some of the crazy stuff I've been doing etc. And then I'll probably go to weta for xmas. I'm thinking of moving back to Los Angeles permenantly as a possibilty - which would be cool. But I'm hoping eitherway to get my ass into gear a bit more with forums and 3D shite!

Also if you check out that new outcast movie that's out at the cinemas right now, I did some effects on that, lot of bullet ricochets and smoke etc. train smoke - nothing facinating to say the least, did it in my spare time whilst on Superman!

PsychoSilence
09-11-2006, 11:12 AM
[shameless plug]

just went frontpage with my PFlow spline tutorial :)

[/shameless plug]

amckay
09-11-2006, 06:58 PM
cool! link?
I can't see it on FP

PsychoSilence
09-11-2006, 08:32 PM
well, STUUPID me...forgot to post the link to www.cgchannel.com

iīm sorry! :(

PS: iīm ****ed up > deadline tomorrow...

amckay
09-12-2006, 01:39 AM
excuses ;)
Seen your tut, looks great mate. Very nice work.

PsychoSilence
09-12-2006, 09:46 AM
glad you like it! hopefully iīll add some new tutīs the day iīm free :D

just like you i stay in a shitty hotel in stuttgart/germany :( animating mermaids and spongefish swarms.......

amckay
09-12-2006, 06:41 PM
I was going to ask if you were in Germany, I have a friend (Tobias Schmidt, friend of Willi Hammes and I and Schloerb) who's always complaining he can't find work, so I wanted to point out there is work in germany and he needs to get off his ass and find it :)

great work mate

PsychoSilence
09-12-2006, 07:13 PM
Do you mean work opportunities in germany for particle guys or CG work with MAX in general? Well there arenīt much PFlow pimps around here in germany, thatīs where i come into play :D . At Black Mountain, where i work at the moment we have a houdini artist...so no need for PFlow or TP :D that houdini shit is wicked!!!

But if you like i can get in touch with your friend. i have a pool of artists i work with. as far as i can say right now in germany i have more job opportunities than i can deal with...i really canīt complain about the work situation! well i cover VRay Shading, Texturing, Pipeline TD, massive beer consumption, Postroduction and Particles in max and maya. So iīm flexible. Dunno what topics your friend covers but if you get us in touch i can see what i can do for him. i was never a friend of a "hide your sources" attitude.

PS: Iīm german. Never worked outside of my country. But i would like to...how about catastrophic :D :D

loran
09-13-2006, 07:29 AM
Hi there,
I just want to join this interesting discussion:
Yesterday I heat an apple.

Thanks

PsychoSilence
09-13-2006, 08:39 AM
lol @ loran :D

well, after this slight excursion into the wonderful world of progessive shit talking i would like to get back to topic with the question where i can toggle the shortcut override... :(

regards

anselm

Phibmobil
09-13-2006, 09:39 AM
scanline is based in germany.. then i also heard post for 'the red baron' is also about to start in stuttgart. Iīve just opened my window, and fresh air is rushing in..

jussing
09-13-2006, 10:00 AM
Yes, Red Baron is recruiting:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/search.php?searchid=4409430

- Jonas

amckay
09-13-2006, 09:39 PM
yeah my mates a lighting/rendering guy (www.3dluvr.com/tobias/) he's like 19 (crazy young) but always bitching and moaning there's no work in germany.

Hah Catastrophic's going well, only I keep going overseas for projects so it's hard to maintain doing both. I'm at Blur Studio right now, but I've got a few big movies going through CFX. I'm planning to go to Weta at the end of the year for a few months just to keep me busy.

Yeah houdini is a great piece of software, I'd love to build a pipeline for getting effects work in and out of houdini back into maya/max.

Loran how are you doing mate? You been working on anything cool lately? or just eating your apply? ;) You got any cool new work you been doing lately? hope you're well ;)

-Allan

DeKo-LT
09-13-2006, 10:16 PM
he's like 19...
Not 19, but 21! (just like i'm :rolleyes: )

Everyone have that job, what deserved, i'm too started work in CG in my 19 year(now i'm 21) and i live in smaller country than Germany. If i can get job for fulltime i'm finding it for freelance, for clients from other countries.
Around the world is a lot of freelance projects, just its necessary to search it.

That is true of life, everyone must fight for survive.
We all started by oneself...

:beer:

SoLiTuDe
09-14-2006, 05:46 AM
Yeah houdini is a great piece of software, I'd love to build a pipeline for getting effects work in and out of houdini back into maya/max.
-Allan


Over on the afterburn discussion (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=3811039&postcount=307) you might've seen this: but MiguelPerez did the particles in houdini, and used realflow format export/import to bring it into max to use afterburn for rendering... seems like a pretty good start. I'm sure if you got all crazy and complex you could figure out something a bit better suited... but you'd better share it when you figure it out! (or sell it!) :) Don't know how possible this is without getting into some hardcore programming, but it would be sweet to see something that could translate houdini nodes into a special set of operators for pflow. (or something like that)

amckay
09-14-2006, 08:15 AM
Yeah it's funny one of the guys here at Blur mentioned that last night, it's a funny work around, however it could be useful. I'm interested in looking into it, as I can probably streamline the process to an extent. However I'd love to see it be able to read the new fbx format, as that'd be perfect! Ohwell maybe one day ;)

Hi DeKoVV welcome aboard!

loran
09-14-2006, 08:35 AM
amckay: Loran how are you doing mate? You been working on anything cool lately?

I m fine Allan thx, eating apple is so healthy ;)

I have some fun sfx to do for a Z English production. Muzzle flashes and blood splash.
About splashes, I tried to do it with pflow but its very render time consuming when playing with Blobmesh, And after burn metaballs aren t very usefull with several particles... So I will try to play with glu3d.
If any of you have a PFLOW solution for that, please share your knowledge :)

I actually render myu sequence by pixel point render, then composite this in AE7.
here is a point render still:

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/splash20005.jpg

PsychoSilence
09-14-2006, 09:31 AM
yeah my mates a lighting/rendering guy (www.3dluvr.com/tobias/ (http://www.3dluvr.com/tobias/)) he's like 19 (crazy young) but always bitching and moaning there's no work in germany.

Hah Catastrophic's going well, only I keep going overseas for projects so it's hard to maintain doing both. I'm at Blur Studio right now, but I've got a few big movies going through CFX. I'm planning to go to Weta at the end of the year for a few months just to keep me busy.

-Allan

looool the ****ing world is a village! Tobias calls himself ZORBI and worked for soulpix allready....soulpix is the company i "was made" and work most of the time (i even spend my hollidays with the guys :D )...maybe i can recruit him at blackmountain in stuttgart (my current assignment). we have two vray shader nerds here allready including me but iīm out in october (thailand is calling :D ). letīs PM for not spamming OT.

PS: Yeah, pixomondo is recruiting for RED BARON and i plan to join the band...reason: the red baron was my grand grand uncle. NO joke...my grandmother is a born "von Richthofen".

Nazgul
09-14-2006, 01:19 PM
the example posted by SoLiTuDe from that other guy who brought Houdini particles to apply Afterburn doesn't seem very impressive. I mean...you can't already do that with pFlow?
Especially now with box#3 it must be feasible right Oleg?

I think pFlow users underestimate the tools they have. It always seems greener on the other side of the fence but sometimes it's because we haven't looked everywhere in our own backyard!

my 2 cents!

PsychoSilence
09-14-2006, 01:35 PM
youīre right about the backjard thing :D but i saw houdini particle stuff that blew my head away seriously ! now i know why houdini artists get payed a lilī better then mesh-warriors...

amckay
09-14-2006, 08:07 PM
Loran ah I always use pwrapper for blood! You have that right? it's the blobmesh for glu3d, it's much faster than useless blobmesh!!! Take a look. Otherwise you can always try and use afterburn hypersolids, kinda crappy but they render fast!

I'm doing a lot of blood right now actually for a project at blur, I gotta say I hate doing blood/liquid shots.. nice work btw! Krakatoa comes out soon, it's very useful point renderer!

psychosilence, ah you were at Soulpix?! So you know johannes schloerb? ;) Germany industry is pretty small, I think I know most of you haha. I was at dinner with Willi Hammes (www.willihammes.com) last night, I'm sure you'd know his work if you don't know his name. He's over at Sony. I used to know Christoph Sprenger, who used to be a programmer at Scanline, he's now at Double Negative in London as a massive TD. Tobias I've known since that punk was like 14 or 15, lot of talent for such a young age, but he's too afraid to run out there and try and get his career started if it means leaving Germany (much like Schloerby!). But Zorbi's a good kid eitherway.

Yeah man feel free to contact him if you guys need people, I'm sure he'd be greatful!

You're going to Thailand? D00d! I want to go, so freaking cheap and pretty big party place too! One of my friends is over here visiting his family in Costa Rica, so he's trying to talk me into going over there, I think it'd be fun. But I plan to go back to Australia for some R&R and some R&D :) then probably head over to Weta for xmas. Your grand grand uncle was the red baron?? haha I want your autograph!

Nazgul, in terms of underestimating pflow etc. that all depends. I know so many maya artists who say maya particles are the shit... and believe me, I had dropped max in 2003 for the most part and was all maya. but then pflow alpha came out and it craps allover maya particles in terms of flexibility and speed (in set up) although max in a lot of ways holds pflow back, and in some ways pflow holds itself back, and in other ways the fact that all the box sets sit on top of pflow rather than oleg writing a new pflow that wasn't capped by Discreet half way through all of which would make a far more superior product.
Pflow can do wonders, and I use it as my primary tool, however there is still lots that I will go to other systems to do if its a fairly intricate system like crowds or something I need to set up.
Box set 3 has it's issues, it definitely opens things up further but there are still plenty of limitations.
The whole houdini > afterburn thing is probably overkill, but I can see a lot of places houdini would definitely pull off a far better job, personally though I'd rather just output all my meshes into houdini and do the effects there adn render it there. rather than pull it back in. But there's only going to be a handful of jobs that you might NEED a bigger better system to do your effects with, but having an option there is always useful. I know a lot more houdini effects artists personally than I do max effects artists, so if I can hire someone to do effects in another package then that's still fine by me ;)

PsychoSilence
09-14-2006, 09:26 PM
psychosilence, ah you were at Soulpix?! So you know johannes schloerb? ;) Germany industry is pretty small, I think I know most of you haha. I was at dinner with Willi Hammes (www.willihammes.com (http://www.willihammes.com/)) last night, I'm sure you'd know his work if you don't know his name. He's over at Sony. I used to know Christoph Sprenger, who used to be a programmer at Scanline, he's now at Double Negative in London as a massive TD. Tobias I've known since that punk was like 14 or 15, lot of talent for such a young age, but he's too afraid to run out there and try and get his career started if it means leaving Germany (much like Schloerby!). But Zorbi's a good kid eitherway.

yeah, i still AM at soulpix! Frank Sennholz, the director is my "CG Daddy". I know most of my skills concerning vray and render stuff in general from him, canīt say they have the worst render skills over there... ;) just right now iīm freelancing at blackmountain vfx (www.blackmountain.de (http://www.blackmountain.de)) situated in stuttgart but iīll be back in hannover at the 1st of october...

yeah sure i know schlörby and all the other guys :D itīs a damn pitty i never met most of them pesonally until today. some work remote for us :( . germany is daaaaamn small concerning the CG industry. There are like ten companies itīs really worth sending them a reel.

i know most of zorbiīs work, great stuff!!! do you have his mobile number? maybe youīd like to PM it to me. tomorrow i can suggest him here as shading nerd. we just passed the modeling process and started shading and lighting a few days ago...

youīre right! i know guys who neither wonīt leave their hometown nor germany...personally i think they miss something. as far as iīm concerned i made peace of what i am...a cg soldier :D doesnīt matter where i work. got my notebook and my travelbag is allways packed...

PS: searched for you at OpenBC but didnīt find you :( seems youīre not signed there...

PPS: the best of baden-württemberg (the state stuttgart is captail of) is the ticket home and the wine :D

You're going to Thailand? D00d! I want to go, so freaking cheap and pretty big party place too! One of my friends is over here visiting his family in Costa Rica, so he's trying to talk me into going over there, I think it'd be fun. But I plan to go back to Australia for some R&R and some R&D :) then probably head over to Weta for xmas. Your grand grand uncle was the red baron?? haha I want your autograph!

yepp i go with frank from soulpix :D

and yepp. iīm so called from blue blood....but thatīs nothing i can buy beer from :D thatīs why iīm a CG nerd :D :D

mackdadd
09-15-2006, 01:13 AM
been lurking in this thread for a while, but this talk of blood/liquids really gets to me. These past few years, I keep expecting Max to start including some kind of fluid simulator, whether its something as robust as Realflow or as quick and easy (and effective) as Glu3d. Even something like Maya Fluids (i know Aura is in development and FumeFx is on the way, but i was hoping for something fully integrated right from install). Just seems odd to me. Max seemed to be first to jump on a dedicated character animation system, then they lagged a bit in particles until BAMM! - PFlow! Even blender has a fluid simulator. I keep dreaming that maybe they're holding back for a while. Til then, Glu3d rules. Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to incorporate into PFlow (of course, that's coming from someone who can't MAXscript a sphere!!!)

and yeah, blobmesh is useless with a deadline. can't they speed that up already? i'd use it for so many things if it went faster!

anyway, my two cents.

ps - love your work Allan. i've learned tons from your dvd's and website. thanx!

amckay
09-15-2006, 06:54 AM
All software companies are trying to have an integrated fluids system in their package, although it's a lot more practical just to buy someone elses fluids system rather than build one from the bottom up, and there aren't really any on the market right now.

Maya's fluids are a pain in the arse to work with, I use them pretty constantly and seem to be one of the few who does appreciate them in the max world, howeever they're far from perfect. I know XSI were trying to buy a certain well known and not on the market yet fluids app a few years ago, and Autodesk has looked into it - although there aren't really many around.

Fume's the shit, when it comes out it'll put a lot of peoples hearts at ease, although maya still has more flexibility and open endedness. Aura is good but pretty dang slow.

ack.. I'm too tired to keep typign this post. I'm in the middle of two deadlines from hell tonight. pyschosilence - zorbi's msn is zorbi@msn.net, I'm sure he won't mind me posting it publically :) what's openBC?


mackdadd, cheers mate glad to hear that! I'm going to do some more stuff soon, been saying that all year! but I'm taking a month off after this gig and do some new R&D, so I'll make sure I put some time aside to put up some new material etc. been one hell of a year!!


PS. glu3d does incorporate into pflow doesn't it? you have the pflow operator? it doesn't work great, but you know ;)

PsychoSilence
09-15-2006, 09:22 AM
allan, iīll get in contact with zorbi as soon as i checked if his presence is needed here :)

openBC is a network for business contacs. got jobs from there allready ;) thatīs my contact page e.g.: https://www.openbc.com/hp/Anselm_vonSeherrThoss/

SoLiTuDe
09-15-2006, 02:24 PM
the example posted by SoLiTuDe from that other guy who brought Houdini particles to apply Afterburn doesn't seem very impressive. I mean...you can't already do that with pFlow?
Especially now with box#3 it must be feasible right Oleg?

I think pFlow users underestimate the tools they have. It always seems greener on the other side of the fence but sometimes it's because we haven't looked everywhere in our own backyard!

my 2 cents!

The particles in that example are far from amazing, but what's neat is that he was able to bring the particles into max. Pflow is great and very powerful, but there's still no debate on how powerful houdini is. :) I'm sure there's also no debate on how hard houdini is to learn either though. And I'm 100% positive you can create that exact effect with just pflow, he just decided to make it in houdini for some reason. Otherwise I completely agree with ya, a lot of people do underestimate pflow/max in general really: At my (crappy) school people seem to think that maya is great for effects and particle work, etc, but when I ask them if they've ever used pflow, they have no idea what it is... then I ask them how to make a freakin' particle get larger over time in maya (when I first started with maya) and they told me I have to look up how to write expressions... can't say I much enjoyed that one. Now... the fact that you have so much under-the-hood access in maya is great for some complex set ups, but the set up time goes up acoordingly. I think Allan explains some good reasoning on using other apps, so before this turns into a this app is better than that app I'll stop. :)

BrandonD
09-16-2006, 01:10 AM
Most people just don't get it. What makes Houdini's particle system so powerful isn't the actual particle tools, it's Houdini itself. Everything is integrated with each other at all levels. It's the definitive open system, especially with VEX and VOPs. With this also comes some unintended consequences like simple things aren't simple. It's like having a garage full of machinery for making tools. Sure, you can do anything in that garage like build a rocket or a table, but there are few pre-fab pieces, so you have to fashion the tools first. This is why Houdini is best employed by a small group of TDs and propogated across a large group of Artists.

I've been working with Box #3 almost exclusively for the last two weeks and can say it comes close to what you can do with VEX and VOPs in Houdini and the high-level access it brings is a welcomed sight for MAX effects artists. Now you don't have to do as many tricks make things happen.

And regarding fluids, they still aren't the end all be all, though they are a bit more useful than caustics ;)

mackdadd
09-16-2006, 02:16 AM
And regarding fluids, they still aren't the end all be all

i agree, but i can't even think of how many times i've been on a movie project in the last couple years and needed smoke or fluids and struggled with it. I don't have Box #3, so i don't know what in there, but Allan's and Pete Draper's stuff has saved me quite a few times on the smoke end. But, there's always that one scene that Max just can't do, and Maya fluids handles it. Frustrating for me, being the Max guy who can usually crank something out faster than the Maya guy (no need to write a script if i want a particle to spin! yay!)
on the liquid end, my limited experience with realflow has left me with a bad taste for its interface and it's tendency to crash. Never had an issue with Glu3d, but, then again, Glu3d isn't quite as "realistic" as RF.

:) that's all i was getting at. after seeing them (autodesk) implement cloth, hair, dynamics, particle flow, etc, etc, I'm always hopeful for a factory-shipped, built-in fluid simulator. (Pete didn't include pouring/spraying/filling liquids in DTE, and Allan's book is still an unrealized dream of mine! :thumbsup: )

And I should mention that while at a little shop, we used only Max and Maya, but where I am now (R&H) uses Houdini for the stuff you guys are talking about using it for. I've never touched it, but see amazing things come out of it all the time. (i should also mention that i'm a compositor in my current position, not a 3d/2d all-around guy, like i was).

allan - i have the pflow operator for glu3d, but never used it, actually. most things i've done i've managed with it's own emitter or using the pwrapper in pflow, never the emitter in pflow. maybe i should give it a spin. are there significant differences?

PeteDraper
09-16-2006, 09:17 AM
"Pete didn't include pouring/spraying/filling liquids in DTE"

... working on it, working on it ;)

gotta give you guys something to do eh??

Personally I've found glu a blessing and also a curse at the same time, in the way that a feature I presumed would work in a certain way didn't, and it took a fair amount of to-ing and fro-ing with the dev guys to find out it didn't actually do what I thought it would which, for that specific job, rendered it useless :( I'd still stick with rf for the mostpart, quite simply because glu is such an arse to remove from a scene once it has been introduced, especially if your farm / leased farm doesn't have it installed which therefore results in a missing plugin error and a failed render. Anyone old enough to remember the amount of crap we used to go through to remove cebas plugins??! Kinda arsey and, nay, nostalgic at the same time...

Pete

(PS O/T: Brando, Ben mentioned at Rachelle's party a few weeks ago that you were throwing one the following night, but unfortunately we'd already made arrangements to see a friend out in San Bernardino... sorry I couldn't make it, but hope it was a blast :) catchya next time I'm over in the states!)

mackdadd
09-16-2006, 06:55 PM
... working on it, working on it ;)

gotta give you guys something to do eh??

:applause: hahaha... you served one up in 3d world a couple months back that was pretty sweet, it's just that blobmesh makes me knock my head on walls waiting for it to friggin' render and update! Perhaps I should also mention that your book is the hands-down best Max book there is (for non-noobs). I know Maya people who have bought it simply for the way you analyze the effects before you recreate them. You also covered spraying blood a while back, and the old splatter gun from W&Gromit. Good stuff! But I'm one of those guys who likes to set up an emitter, some deflectors, and hit "process", and let the computer do the work (i.e., lazy!).

LOL, I feel like I'm standing on mount olympus, asking the Gods for more, more, more! Feel free to hit me with a well-aimed lightning bolt!

PeteDraper
09-16-2006, 07:22 PM
"Feel free to hit me with a well-aimed lightning bolt!"

ain't that in the book too ;)

yeah that "faking fluids" one did take a while to render, mainly due to the several Keep Apart ops and blobmesh being so crapping slow. It's not so bad at the start of the sequence, though once it gets going it can take a while to surface the geometry around the ton of particles... solution: increase the blobmesh's courseness render value and/or reduce the amount of particles :) , though it will obviously result in a degradation of effect, especially if you start increasing the courseness. I've even seen a toothpaste / mouthwash commercial over here where they've obviously had to reduce the amount of meta surfacing detail to get it out in time as the geometry is flickering all over the place... same deal with the tutorial if you reduce detail too much.

yeah the blood spatter one was fun, though the original one was too gruesome and I had to tone it down else the magazine would have to have been relocated to a shelf higher up so kids couldnt' read it... brain chunks and goo a go-go :) Might release the original scene when I get round to publishing it on my site... which reminds me... i've got a ton of papers to upload as I've not dropped anything on there for an age now. Hopefully in a week or two once I've finished this music video with the bluescreen from hell, and got my reel cut...

p

** edit - just realised I've already published the damn thing. Uh oh... that's a sure sign of aging when the mind starts misfiring...

amckay
09-16-2006, 07:57 PM
yeah exactly, houdini's workflow is procedural and completely flexible, pops itself is pretty standard in it's abilities, but having such an open system work with allows you to plug anything into anything and create a lot more trickier solutions.

mackdadd yeah fluids are useful for some things, whereas they'll never really replace particles per say. but things such as smoke and explosions they can be quite useful to get some specific look and realistic feel. However that doesn't mean I'll still use particles for smoke whenever needed.

RE: Blobmesh, PWRAPPER!! never ever ever ue blobmesh! !@#$@#$

RE: Book, yeah I had a few book offers in 2000>2001, but I don't have the patience to write a book as it'd mean taking a lot of time off (I assume, Pete correct me if I'm wrong!). I was at a studio about 2 months ago and noticed Petes book on one of the guys desks and had a flick through it, pretty cool! I was given a scene assembly job two weeks later where I had to create and underwater environment and wished I could have taken another peek at his book when I was on that ;)

MackDadd are you at R&H? Please tell me you're not on happy feet ;) say hi to the producer there (Jeanie) and kick Gordon Chapman in the nuts for me! I'll probably have a beer with Gordo later next week if you wanna tag along.


P: Glu vs RF - I'm not one for software politics, although the whole Glu vs next limit thing I kind of got guilt pushed into never using RF too much as Jesus and Satni got screwed so bad by NL when they were let go that any time I said I was using RF they thought I was siding with the enemy (Spanish politics haha). Although to be honest as much as I tried to like glu it couldn't really match Glu's one programmer vs NL's several. So most of my fluids stuff is either in Flood or Real Flow.

Pete, back tracking further with nolstalgia I was talking with Dave Stinnet about all the good ol yost ipas routines in 3DS yesterday hah, I still have an old .3ds render of mine back at my office in Aus of an animation of oldcity3 being destroyed ID4 style with yost fire and yost smoke ;) it still holds up pretty well, although it took like six hours to render that blood single frame!

Steve Green
09-16-2006, 08:11 PM
Hi Allan,

you should post that old animation up someday...

I've used 3DS since about Dos R2/3, I can remember a rain IPAS, but not the smoke/fire one.

I still remember having arguments with a guy at College over a raptor/deinonychus animated in Max (by Steve Sherer I think), he wouldn't believe it was done in 3DS.

About RF/Glu, do you think that FumeFX/Aura are going to be able to handle those sort of liquid effects, or they will be aimed at doing gas/fire/explosions?

Thanks,

Steve

mackdadd
09-16-2006, 10:44 PM
About RF/Glu, do you think that FumeFX/Aura are going to be able to handle those sort of liquid effects, or they will be aimed at doing gas/fire/explosions?

is anything still even happening with Aura? Fume looks to be more of a gas/explosions/fire kind of thing, but i'm sure someone will figure out some kind of liquid with it. :)

just realised I've already published the damn thing

pete - where? on your site? brain chunks and extra gore can only make something better! wow, really, they let flickering geometry make it to tv? sheesh... well, what's more important, i guess, deadline or quality? anyone in our industry knows its deadline! nutty producers! and it probably would've taken only another day or two to render it right. But I guess its just THAT IMPORTANT that people be aware of so-and-so's toothpaste! whatever!

are you at R&H? Please tell me you're not on happy feet ;) say hi to the producer there (Jeanie) and kick Gordon Chapman in the nuts for me! I'll probably have a beer with Gordo later next week if you wanna tag along.

allan - I am, but not on Happy Feet. Night at the Museum. And I don't know Jeanie or Gordon, although I certainly recognize Gordon's name. I haven't quite been here a year yet, and this place is big, so it takes a while to get around and meet everyone. Plus, they've kept my team together for 2 shows now since we work really well together, so that doesn't make for good "getting around". Thanks for the invite, perhaps i'll hunt down gordon and introduce myself, and, if they don't have me working on my carpal tunnel til 11pm every night this week, tag along. good opportunity to meet some new folks. (if I show up with a laptop, a notebook, and a microcassette recorder, just slap me as hard as you can)

Blobmesh, PWRAPPER!! never ever ever ue blobmesh!

yes, i'm learning this fact slowly... it's hard to abandon, though, when pete does such cool things with it! stop it pete!

where I had to create and underwater environment

this gave me a bit of nostalgia... something from Jon Bell's FX book for Max v.1. whew, its been a long time...

I tend to try to stay out of the software politics "what's better" stuff, too. especially when it comes to the full 3d packages or compositing programs. in the end, what matters is the film frame, not the program that got it there. But, as someone who doesn't script at all - AT ALL, seriously - Max is awesome, and you guys (along with Tyson Ibele) are out there everyday proving Max can do anything. I remember my first job in a "big" studio, thinking "oh, they MUST use Maya, all the big studios do". But they used Lightwave, Maya, and Max (and Glu3d!) (it was CafeFX). And people tell me all the time that After Effects isn't for major films, but i've done the best, most complex compositing work i've ever done for film in AE. It all comes down to the guy or gal pushing the mouse.

but I still like Glu3d cause it's easy. I haven't needed to create an ocean or any major huge liquid thing for a film yet, just little things like vomit or various splats, etc. It works flawlessly and quickly for that kind of thing.

and Pflow is the best. it was a little daunting when it was first put in max, going from the super simple superspray to essentially a whole built in program, but once i got over it, there's no looking back.

is the free learning edition of Houdini worth installing to take a look at, anyone know? does it have all the particle functionality of the full version? (i can't imagine this would be the case)

mackdadd
09-16-2006, 11:24 PM
i don't think gordon's here today, but, in thinking about this, i realize i'm going to look like a complete idiot going up to a total stranger and saying "Allan McKay wanted me to kick you in the nuts".

not something i really thought i'd ever be saying to anyone, let alone a complete stranger.

dantea
09-16-2006, 11:58 PM
is the free learning edition of Houdini worth installing to take a look at, anyone know? does it have all the particle functionality of the full version? (i can't imagine this would be the case)

Yes, it does.

amckay
09-17-2006, 12:59 AM
hey dude yeah when I get back to Aus I'll see if I can dig it up.

Aura and RF are gas fluids, unlike maya neither have optional mesh outputs I don't think. However anything is possible, you could run the fluids through a particle system that way, but not sure how great it'd be for it. Essentially it's driven by heat and aimed at smoke and fire, rather than fluid dynamics etc. They're both quite dissimiliar systems but either could be used for the other but not with as accurate or realistic results.

feldy
09-17-2006, 02:30 AM
Hey man I dont know if your just sitting up in the hotel tonight bored or if you want to come out with us (few people i work with from spark a rigger and a designer) and come have a drink. -Jeremy
if you want give me a call and see if they want to head down to santa monica later



Dude clean up your private messages you cant send you shit

PeteDraper
09-17-2006, 02:46 AM
I'm definately with allan on the pwrapper vs blobmesh argument - definately go with pwrapper, though I have found that you're pretty much stuck with its own controls... dropping any additional modifiers on top has a tendancy to kill it; I tend to add additional push and relax modifiers to get those final tweaks, but that's just the way i'm used to it :) I'm also not overly keen on their pricing policy of charging for render node plugins... if you've got a farm with over 100 machines (or are using a leased offshore farm) then it starts getting pretty pricey as it's one of the very few plugins out there that actually charges per node... just my 1.2p's worth (depending on current exchange rates)

mackdadd: the blood spatter tutorial is at the bottom of the education page with the more lengthy tutorials.

it'd be better if you kicked first, then stated the fact why. I'm sure his look of extreme discomfort would give way to a partial look of understanding... :twisted:

big al - hahahahah yo uand me both mate! I can recall back in about '96 (3ds v4?) I was playing around with the smoke and flare ipas plugins and managed to get some basic particles flying down a building, blowing out each level. Obviously ID4 inspired, though I did have to do the sequence based on my uni campus at DeMontfort, leicester as there was this tall building with a road of parked cars leading up to it which when framed looked almost identical to the Empire State building sequence :). Obviously it looked total bollocks when rendered (about a week later on my trusty 486DX2 66 with a whopping 4mb memory and 40mb drive), though I couldn't figure out why. I now know why.

I was sh*t ;)

I think I've still got the scene lying around somewhere in my archive o' crap on 3.5" floppy. To be honest, I'm tempted to build / buy an old crappy system and bung on an old copy of 3D Studio r3 to see how we ever got on without any undo features, separate functions (shaper, lofter etc etc) and that god awful tesselate! I remember taking a mesh from 3d studio to lightwave many many (many) moons ago back in about '96 simply to refine it, bake out the mesh then bring it back in. It was, believe it or not, a small one-man ship with two huge jet engines strapped to the side. Bloody George Lucas nicked my idea!

Book - yeah. Takes sodding ages. The first edition was 6 months solid work... I stopped doing any other work for that duration and concentrated solely on sourcing the material, developing the scenes and writing the lot up. Then it was a wait for another month or two before getting the manuscript back (in paper form), getting it tech checked properly (thanks to my better half's brother Rob - mister flamethrower himself) and pencilling in edits, gramattical amendments, tutorial error fixes blah blah blah and getting the dvd sorted... about another month or so in total. If memory serves, they wanted the original manuscript within 2 months of signature of contract! It's a hell of a lot of work, but rewarding. To be honest, the hardest part is getting the initial approval. The publisher comes to you saying "we want you to write us a book!! we'll give you this much advance" which all sounds well and good, but you've got to earn that back before seeing any other royalties. But the worst bit is pitching your idea for the book... most publishers want something general as these types of titles sell well, eg those books which are, in essence, rewrites of the manual. I recall a year or two before I was even approached by Focal to write one, I was asked by New Riders to do one. I submitted the proposal (a pretty lengthy document you have to fill out) which was very effects-orientated. It was IMMEDIATELY rejected, purely down to the fact that they had done one back in the '90s for 3d studio r3 (ish) and it, well, didn't do too well for some reason (I remember picking it up once in a bookshop and would have bought it if I had the money), so they apparently had it pride of place on a shelf in the commisioning editor's office with a note attached that said something along the lines of "don't ever commision this type of book again!". Would I advise you to do it? Well, yeah. If you've got the time and patience (and a few months worth of money to burn as you'll have sod-all other income), but it is fun writing one. So much so that I'm considering doing "Volume 2" if "Vol 1"'s 2nd edition does well... ie I break even on it (money spent during production, minus money from advance & royalties)! My best advice though is to argue the best royalty percentage you can; an advance is nice, though the royalty percentage is obviously better!!

Sorry for the waffle, up late and brain has disengaged. How do you think I write so much crap ;)

p

amckay
09-17-2006, 08:38 AM
Cheers feldy, I'm stuck on two big deadlines this weekend, so if I'm going anywhere it'll be to my hotel for a shower ;)
after this comign week I'll be on vacation so I'll have plenty of time to tear it up at the bars.

Pete yeah dude I was a poor buy who was paying rent to my mum even when I was 13, so I had a shite ass 386 for a long time, which when I finally upgraded to a beasty 486dx4-100 I was a happy man :) prior to that I couldn't run max so I was f'ing around with pov ray and deluxe paint animation and some other old ass 3D apps that you needed to script your animation. You can imagine how much I peed myself when I got into 3D Studio world. Good ol lofter and shaper and 3D editor... how many times did you do some modeling and positioning and realize you were actually in the keyframer or vice versa by accident ?!@##$?%@ !!

Funilly enough my first big break on a decent project was in '96 for Valve Software, the project was... team fortress 2... which just got anounced again a couple of weeks ago haahha and I thought that game was vaporware! at blur i'm sitting next to a guy who worked on Prey, so he understands my pain.

Yeah dude I forgot 3ds couldn't undo, whereas max usually will crash when I try to undo anything. my hotkeys are actually a hybrid of soft|mage 3 and 3ds dos, I still have my hold and fetch keys!! haha

ohwell back to my world of pain that is 3dsmax ;)

I agree I would love to benchmark 3ds these days see how quick it renders, those yost ipas's can take forever to render! the smoke was the shiznit. I love the old lense fx tools!! they were from digimation right?

amckay
09-17-2006, 08:42 AM
Guys!! you want the best tutorials ever made for max?
http://www.the3dstudio.com/product_search.aspx?id_author=32

ahahahahha I just came across them
ooooh yeah

Steve Green
09-17-2006, 09:02 AM
Yeah, they were from Digimation - I still have my LensFX dongle somewhere (Christ knows why...) I remember getting all excited when bones first came out.

Cheers for the info on differences between RF/Glu and Aura/Fume. It would be great if there is a way to pipe the data from Fume to a mesh, even from just s modeling angle that would be cool.

I didn't realise that it cost for additional render nodes with Glu3D, does it only support 1 workstation licence with the basic package, or is it like Brazil and ships with a few render nodes for small farms?

Cheers,

Steve

PeteDraper
09-17-2006, 09:45 AM
nope, you get one workstation node for 295 euros ... additional render nodes are 75 euros each but judging from the price form I think it's a block of 10 for about 595 euros. The problem here is if you're working freelance for a client who doesn't have the render nodes... you have to justify to them to populate their farm with a plugin. Hence having to resort to Blobmesh (*shudder*). Larger max houses will more than likely have it and/or have the cash to buy it in, though most smaller companies with tighter budgets will expect your scene to render "natively" or with little or no cost.

pete

Steve Green
09-17-2006, 10:34 AM
Thanks Pete,

A bit of a pain, that. Moreso if you're going to an external render farm.

Cheers

Steve

Aldarion
09-17-2006, 11:24 AM
Hey Allan ! Those tuts are great ! I actually remember doing them ages ago :D

-ol' Slovakian icq mate

DaJuice
09-17-2006, 03:54 PM
is the free learning edition of Houdini worth installing to take a look at, anyone know? does it have all the particle functionality of the full version? (i can't imagine this would be the case)

The free learning version has almost all the functionality of full houdini master, it's not crippled. The noteworthy limitations are render resolution, disabled output of geometry sequences (for example, saving a sequence of particles to disk), no support for 3rd party renderers (mantra only), and no multi-threaded rendering. But there's nothing actually missing from the particle tools.

BrandonD
09-18-2006, 11:44 PM
Nothing missing except the very useful Geometry ROP, so while you can cache particle data to memory, you can't write it out to disk. It's not a big deal if you're learning, but once you get into production with Houdini you find yourself writing cache data all the time (and guess what? It actually works really well too!).

Those tutorials are classic, Allan. I bet you still get emails about them to this day. ;)

slime
09-19-2006, 03:44 AM
About the differences between Max(pflow) and Houdini, I worked for a little more than two years with the first and have been working for one and a half years with the second, and both of the packages have their strenghts and weakness.

The main selling point of Pflow/Max is that is extremely easy and fast to setup and tweak effects, and the operators included are very powerful, but still everything is limited by Max's architecture which can be frustrating. If you add Thinking Particles to the equation, you have some fantastic tools with you can do almost any particle effect very fast.
On the other hand, Houdini benefits of a really low level architecture, where you can control everything down to the point level. To create some setups can be extremely complicated, but you can do anything with it. If you add the VEX programming capabilities, which can make things process really fast and the nice API, you have the strongest possible software with the only limitation that it can be very complex and difficult.

So, if I had to choose, I would use a hybrid pipeline, where Max would be used for effects that doesn't need to be "physically acurate" or very specificly directed and that need to be done fast and Houdini for the complex effects that need to be very specific, involved geometry or had to be used many times along the production, since OTLs can make repetition easier in the pipeline.

frogspasm
09-19-2006, 04:15 PM
Hey Brandon,

I think the Geometry ROP is availible in the latest version of the learning edition. I don't know how to read stuff back in yet, but I was able to cache out a particle system to an external file sequence.

~Mike D.

amckay
09-21-2006, 05:33 AM
good overview Daniel!

btw dinner this weekend?? I only have two weeks left over here ;)

loran
09-22-2006, 07:15 AM
Hi there,
I meet problems by using the fractur script twice in a scene. Maybe some coders could help me.

I blast a wall by this script and it works fine. I create another PF source the same way to blast the roof and problems began. I think the script have to be modify to select is own PF source and not every particles in the scene.
help wanted!!



on ChannelsUsed pCont do
(
pCont.useAge = true

pCont.useTM = true
pCont.useShape = true
)

on Init pCont do
(
global ChunksArray = $bricks* as array
)

on Proceed pCont do
(
t = pCont.getTimeStart() as float

if t < 0 do
(
NumChunks = ChunksArray.count
for i = 1 to NumChunks do
(
pCont.AddParticle()
pCont.particleIndex = pCont.NumParticles()
pCont.particleAge = 0
pCont.particleTM = ChunksArray[i].transform
pCont.particleShape = ChunksArray[i].mesh
)
)
)

on Release pCont do
(

)

JHaywood
09-22-2006, 12:54 PM
There's a script on my site that I wrote to do exactly what you're talking about. I found the same problem a while ago and so made my own script that you can run multiple times without any conflict. It's called Blow Chunks and you can get it here: http://www.jhaywood.com/maxScripts.htm

PsychoSilence
09-22-2006, 03:47 PM
we all know that there is the scatter tool...

but how about using pflow and enjoying the luxory of fast interaction (exchanging shapes, materials, etc.)?

hereīs how i solved such planting task:

a) draw splines representing guids where you want to plant objects and turn the interpolation to 0

b) use the normalize spline modifier with custom settings (you handle the spacing between objects here)

c) right click the spline(s) and turn on "Vertex Ticks" in the properties so you can see them

d) convert the spline to an edit poly or add an edit poly modifier when achieved the desired vertex spacing

e) (optional!) build a LookAt-object if you want the shapes to look at a certain direction

f) build a very simple particle flow system as displayed in the (huge, and sorry for that! :( ) attached image


THE FLOW EXPLAINED (http://core2core.de/spielwiese/pflow-planting.jpg)

just to confuse you a little more :D


hope you get thru the packed explanation image. otherwise PM or mail me....

just wanted to share this...maybe i make a tutorial some day...




cheers

anselm

Glacierise
09-25-2006, 07:56 AM
Great as always, PsychoSilence. And dude, you're cracking me with the german stuff :)

Just to add, there is a tool in PFlow Tools Box #1, that lets you place a particle at each vertex, too ;)

PsychoSilence
09-25-2006, 09:47 AM
Great as always, PsychoSilence. And dude, you're cracking me with the german stuff :)

Just to add, there is a tool in PFlow Tools Box #1, that lets you place a particle at each vertex, too ;)

Thank you for the flowers Glacierise :D

Youīre totally right! Itīs "Position Object+" > Vertex All!
B-U-T the big problem is:

It plants as many particles as you set in the Birth Operator. So if you have a plane with 60 vertecies but the Birth Operator spawns 200 e.g. Position Object+ plants some particles serveral times at one vertex position because there are only 60 vertecies available but 200 partilces to plant. The Birth Script i wrote spawns ONLY as many particles as there are vertecies ;)

cheers!

anselm

Glacierise
09-25-2006, 10:20 AM
Can't argue with that :)

Btw, can you refer me to a good source for a beginner in PF scripting? I have some programming background, so I should get on with it rather quickly, it's a shame I haven't already.

PsychoSilence
09-25-2006, 10:50 AM
I can highly recomend his masterīs forum:

http://www.orbaz.com/forum/

Oleg is allways quick with relpys and helped me out more than one time!
Best resource around!!!

and his masterīs site Virtual Republic Boboland:

http://scriptspot.com/bobo/
http://scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/

Boboīs the MAX Script master :)

hope that helps.

cheers

anselm

Glacierise
09-25-2006, 11:08 AM
Yeah, I know 'em both masters :) The only thing left is to get to work then :D

PsychoSilence
09-25-2006, 11:12 AM
i can recommend those MAX Script DVDs as well:

http://cg-academy.com/dvds_menu_3dsmax.php

Glacierise
09-25-2006, 12:06 PM
I just remembered something that bothers me for a while. How can I create particle-geometry interactions? Like displacements based on shape marks. Or particles chipping (booleaning) away pieces of geometry from an object? That would be a treat :)

PsychoSilence
09-25-2006, 12:33 PM
I made a tutorial on that a while ago ;)

http:/www.core2core.de/spielwiese/research/PFlow-MeshDeform.avi playblast

http:/www.core2core.de/spielwiese/research/PFlow-MeshDeform.rar max file

and for meh deletion i made a slight change on the fly for you. check the attachment ;)

hope that gives you a hint. play around with it and show your results :) allways interested in other possibilities to work around smoething.

cheers

anselm

DeKo-LT
09-25-2006, 03:33 PM
For mesh deforming i recommend read this topic: ;)
CgTalk Maxscript Challenge 003: "Foot Prints" (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=253362&page=1&pp=15)

avolution
09-25-2006, 04:14 PM
Hi! Did you change the name of the global for each and every script

for example script #1
mywalls=$walls* as array

script #2
myroof=$roof* as array

else if you have two conflicting globals the maxscript will cause issues


Hi there,
I meet problems by using the fractur script twice in a scene. Maybe some coders could help me.

I blast a wall by this script and it works fine. I create another PF source the same way to blast the roof and problems began. I think the script have to be modify to select is own PF source and not every particles in the scene.
help wanted!!


[/left]

loran
09-26-2006, 10:17 AM
Thx avolution ! that s perfect!
Thx JHaywood but I cant make your script works, anyway my scene was done and I don't want to completly redo the PF from the meshes.

JHaywood
09-26-2006, 01:08 PM
Thx JHaywood but I cant make your script works, anyway my scene was done and I don't want to completly redo the PF from the meshes.

Sorry to hear that it wasn't working. I tried to make as simple to use as possible, all you have to do is select a bunch of mesh objects and run the script. Was it giving you an error message?

Glacierise
09-26-2006, 02:30 PM
Psychosilence, you - the man! That's an awesome trick! I will try to improve it :D Something in the lines of max 8's pro cutter, it makes animated booleans, and mesher again. Man, this rocks like crazy!

loran
09-26-2006, 03:42 PM
JHaywood, when I select several boxes and run your script, the error is:

MAXScript FileIn Exception
-- Unknown property: "isValidMeshObject" is undefined

PsychoSilence
09-26-2006, 05:13 PM
Psychosilence, you - the man! That's an awesome trick! I will try to improve it :D Something in the lines of max 8's pro cutter, it makes animated booleans, and mesher again. Man, this rocks like crazy!

glad i could help you out :D


cheers

anselm

JHaywood
09-27-2006, 03:55 AM
JHaywood, when I select several boxes and run your script, the error is:

MAXScript FileIn Exception
-- Unknown property: "isValidMeshObject" is undefined

Sounds like maybe you're trying to run the script by itself. The entire set of scripts in the zip file needs to be installed because there are some functions that get put in the stdscripts folder that this one is looking for.

loran
09-28-2006, 12:32 PM
Here is a test I ve done for mud print with PF, no script used:
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/PFlow-MUDPRINTS.jpg

video (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/PFlow-MUDPRINTS.avi)

max8 file (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/PFlow-MUDPRINTS.max)

PsychoSilence
09-28-2006, 07:28 PM
I had the task to turn on the lights of a city a few days ago. the NDA allows not to post any details...i hate those pieces of paper... :(
BUT to cut a long production story short: a guy (the hero) with a torch in his hand sitīs on the back of a horse and turns 360°. behind him a cityscape. when he spins the lights in the skyscrapers turn on behind the torch just like he would light the fire of the city...how romantic & heroic ;)

i used pflow to make that happen.

i made a very (jet very) stripped assemby scene i wanted to share.

pflow plants windows of office interiors (dark, lights off) on every vertex of a given skyscraper surface (similar task as the stadium thing a few posts ago). when a deflector hits the particles the material replaces itself(office interiors bright, lights on) and/or a light(omni e.g) will be placed at the particle position >> taddaa! we switched the lights on...

not very spectacular but maybe useful :)

http://core2core.de/spielwiese/research/MakeMatGlow.jpg

max file:
http://core2core.de/spielwiese/research/MakeMatGlow.rar

cheers

anselm

Glacierise
09-28-2006, 07:43 PM
Thanks for sharing, dude! I've also done this trick (not in a pro situation, of course :D ) Cheers!

And of course, I have a question for you :)

Have you tried creating a flow that controls deflectors? :D

PsychoSilence
09-28-2006, 08:02 PM
thanks Glacierise :)

what i forgot to mention was that the deflector was linked to the torch of cause :D

i never tried that deflector thing but why not?

http://core2core.de/spielwiese/research/PFlow-Makedeflector.rar

same thing...5 different letters and a few deflectors later.... ;)

well okay, pflow controls at least the position of the deflectors :-P

Werewolf006
09-29-2006, 11:17 AM
Nice one Loran, You can take it further by:
A scale operator
an age test with a big variation wired to a delete

looks as if the mud is resuming it's previous stat gradually.

amckay
09-30-2006, 05:05 AM
Hey guys! I just got back from Blur Studio's premiere of their new short film "A Gentlemens Duel" in Santa Monica, turned out great! Sadly I'm very hungover from the after party, and my hotel room's ceilings and walls are painted with pasta that I threw up when I got home this morning but the short looked great, and our other work was also all shown on the big screen which was great to see!

I wanted to quickly post a link or two of two of the projects I finished up recently that have been publically announced so I can show them off.

Halo Wars:
http://downloads.gamezone.com/demos/d16945.htm

Bioshock:
http://www.gamershell.com/news/33148.html

Sickest part is that we did halo wars in like 2 bloody weeks, it was insanely short turnaround!

Glacierise
09-30-2006, 07:34 AM
Wowwww, that's a blast :) I definitely see a lot of you in the halo wars vid, awesome! But it was more subtle in Bioshock, dod you do the bloody stuff? I suppose so.

Heh, and I hope you share some of the inside stuff, as usual :D

P.S.: Could you people please see my post in the AB thread and give me some crits? The vid is here:

Airstrike (http://cravenous.com/airstrike.avi)

Steve Green
09-30-2006, 08:22 AM
Hi Allan,

Great work as always - not sure about this trend for silly deadlines though, it doesn't seem particularly healthy.

Hope you managed to clean your room up OK :)

Cheers

Steve

feldy
09-30-2006, 05:06 PM
you want to talk silly deadlines we have a deadlines everytwo weeks with our plubisher. stuff that should take a month to do they cram it it in 10 day working sprints you feel it at the end of every ten days

Steve Green
09-30-2006, 05:42 PM
It must be awfully tempting to do what they did on Team America, the CG equivalent of really bad puppets and appalling backgrounds...

- Steve

TAVO
10-01-2006, 04:16 PM
Wow the Bioshock one is really dark but really awesome, Halo Wars just rocks :bounce:

amckay
10-01-2006, 06:46 PM
Bioshock I did all of the effects for and lit and comped the effects stuff (ie. all the sparks, big drill smashing into the ground, waterfall, hornets, infected arm, blood dripping and other blood effects, shotgun blasts etc. Craig Brown did the initial groundwork for the shader for the infected arm which I took over. Tim Jones was the supervisor for the project.

Most of it was a tight turnaround so a lot of the effects were rushed, although the hornets and infected arm eventually became a pain in the ass as the overall look changed quite a few times.

Glacierise
10-02-2006, 02:02 PM
Heh, it seems that your lightning fast work gets abused :) But great work on the bioshock, really fits the atmosphere!

Neejoh
10-02-2006, 06:37 PM
Bioshock I did all of the effects for and lit and comped the effects stuff (ie. all the sparks, big drill smashing into the ground, waterfall, hornets, infected arm, blood dripping and other blood effects, shotgun blasts etc. Craig Brown did the initial groundwork for the shader for the infected arm which I took over. Tim Jones was the supervisor for the project.

Most of it was a tight turnaround so a lot of the effects were rushed, although the hornets and infected arm eventually became a pain in the ass as the overall look changed quite a few times.Haha, I'm so F'ing jalous right now :D Great job from you and the team on both videos! They look awesome (and man, just can't wait for bloody Halo to release!)

feldy
10-04-2006, 09:40 PM
ehh halo i care more about gears of war comming out next month i heard digtal domain did all there cut scene stuff i cant wait to see it.

feldy
10-04-2006, 09:43 PM
Hey allan you worked on the 14 minute bio shock video?

amckay
10-06-2006, 01:10 AM
it's 3 minute rendered cinematic

ruster
10-06-2006, 05:30 PM
And here is my trying to create gasoline explosion.
It's not a final version, but almost, some minor improvements and I think it'll be there =)
http://www.i-studio.ho.com.ua/Mushroom_FIN_sound_vd.avi
waiting for comments ;)

DaForce
10-06-2006, 10:05 PM
Not too shabby at all :D

Pflow and afterburn I take it ?

Mind you I think the little bits that fly off near the end need some work. If anything they should happen at the beggining not as the fireball is rolling up.

Glacierise
10-06-2006, 10:12 PM
You should animate the phase, too. And slow it down a bit, and make the cloud's trail more present

You're almost there :D

ruster
10-07-2006, 09:45 AM
Not too shabby at all :D

Pflow and afterburn I take it ?

Mind you I think the little bits that fly off near the end need some work. If anything they should happen at the beggining not as the fireball is rolling up.
You're right about PF and AB. I'll redo those bits and make the gravity more strong.

You should animate the phase, too. And slow it down a bit, and make the cloud's trail more present

You're almost there :D
Tnx for comment. It's strange, but I've never animated phase =).

amckay
10-07-2006, 08:23 PM
Nice work mate, yeah I would make it spread out more on the sides to give the explosion more overall body. But very good start

PsychoSilence
10-07-2006, 10:43 PM
i have problems opening the file... :( any codec i should have? i really would like to see your latest results.


regards

anselm

And here is my trying to create gasoline explosion.
It's not a final version, but almost, some minor improvements and I think it'll be there =)
http://www.i-studio.ho.com.ua/Mushroom_FIN_sound_vd.avi
waiting for comments ;)

SoLiTuDe
10-08-2006, 01:03 AM
..It's encoded with divx..

rockadiz
10-08-2006, 12:25 PM
Hello everyone. I was just going over pluginz.com and I came to find this "sandblaster" plugin from digimation. It says there that "With all of this power, you can blow up a Volkswagon Bug (emitter object) into tiny animated beetles (custom particles), and having them reassemble moments later into a speeding Ferrari (target object)! No other particle system on any platform gives you this kind of flexibility and control." I was just wondering if any of you guys ever tried anything like this under particle flow. If you guys have, mind sharing how you guys did it? thanks

DeKo-LT
10-08-2006, 12:32 PM
Hehe, it's easy:
just read all this thread :scream:
:beer:

Neejoh
10-09-2006, 09:22 AM
Yep, it's starting to get scary but Allan has made a couple of video tutorials on this. Go to www.allanmckay.com and look for the tut_ObjAB.avi tutorial on the frontpage. With this you be at 80% of what you're looking for.

loran
10-09-2006, 01:49 PM
rockadiz, here is a test I just done about this type of effects. It s based on Allan's tutorial but without any script:

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/AtoB.jpg

video (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/AtoB.avi)
max8 file (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/AtoB.max)

Neejoh
10-09-2006, 08:04 PM
Yes that works too, although it has one major disadvantage. In Allan's tutorial you can break apart objects and mold them back together in a much more controlled environment. You've got control over every particle where he should end up. This way you can make up an entire full textured object without comping everything together to make it "fit".

Your method is more than enough in pretty much every situation, it's nice tho to take it to another level

adityaprabhu
10-10-2006, 06:03 AM
Hey! I had been working on a similar effect for sometime...
check this out! http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FTNCPVY7
Simple particle flow setup thanks to Allan Mckay's tutorial for some inspiration :)

loran
10-10-2006, 07:34 AM
great work adityaprabhu ! (but I don't see what is similar to previous subject)
anyway can you explain or share your scene?
thx

rockadiz
10-10-2006, 08:39 AM
Loran, wow thanks for sharing your scene file! I'll definitely play around with this and im totally blown away with your teapot animation. this is a good challenge for me indeed. my follow up question with this is what if both objects were of different materials. how do you define the transition or blending between the 2 textures/materials? do you use a dynamic material in pflow for that? or is there some other way to do it?

adityaprabhu, that was very nice! did you use a moving deflector on the top of the teapot to start the disintegration? i like the weight of the particles hitting the plane too.

DeKo-LT
10-10-2006, 09:18 AM
I think that dispersion is created using opacity map.
Check this:
pflow_dust_destructions.rar (http://maxima8.abac.com/dekovv/tmp/pflow_dust_destructions.rar) (20kB)

Something similar to that collision, look here:
pflow_kiddaz_sphere.rar (http://maxima8.abac.com/dekovv/tmp/pflow_kiddaz_sphere.rar) (40kB)

It's my very old test, but if you find something useful - Cheers :beer:

PsychoSilence
10-10-2006, 10:11 AM
I think that dispersion is created using opacity map.
Check this:
pflow_dust_destructions.rar (http://maxima8.abac.com//dekovv/tmp/pflow_dust_destructions.rar%20) (20kB)

Something similar to that collision, look here:
pflow_kiddaz_sphere.rar (http://maxima8.abac.com//dekovv/tmp/pflow_kiddaz_sphere.rar%20) (40kB)

It's my very old test, but if you find something useful - Cheers :beer:

The page cannot be found :(

loran
10-10-2006, 10:22 AM
I think that dispersion is created using opacity map.
Check this:
pflow_dust_destructions.rar (http://maxima8.abac.com//dekovv/tmp/pflow_dust_destructions.rar%20) (20kB)

Something similar to that collision, look here:
pflow_kiddaz_sphere.rar (http://maxima8.abac.com//dekovv/tmp/pflow_kiddaz_sphere.rar%20) (40kB)
there was double slash and space in the url.
corrected versions:

http://maxima8.abac.com/dekovv/tmp/pflow_dust_destructions.rar

http://maxima8.abac.com/dekovv/tmp/pflow_kiddaz_sphere.rar

DeKo-LT
10-10-2006, 12:25 PM
My mistake....
Thanks guys :thumbsup:

adityaprabhu
10-10-2006, 04:51 PM
Hey all, thanks for the critiques! The work is just in progress!
Ok, i have used a moving deflector to move the particles into a scene where they fall due to gravity. Then the teaopt is gradually made to fade by using a opacity map with the UVW mapping. The opacity gradient is animated. I saw this on a tutorial, dont have the link though
:(
Anyway, My intention is too make the teapot disappear into fine dust/sand and then the sand gets blown into another location and there the sand particles form another object, say for example, a pyramid. This re-formation is what im finding hard to achieve. Its wasy to achieve the dispersion part, but the re-formation just doesnt have that fluidity i need...
This is solely a personal experiment and not for any project.

Cheers,
Regards
Aditya

adityaprabhu
10-10-2006, 04:57 PM
Here is the scene file for anyone interested.
Regards,
Aditya

loran
10-17-2006, 01:06 PM
It s an historical reconstitution of the explosion of a canon powder tower. The film is HD 1920x1080 for museum.

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/v2/images/galerie/ExplosionTourEsp_large.jpg

VIDEO (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/v2/images/galerie/ExplosionTourEsp_large.mov)

critics are wellcom ;)

DeKo-LT
10-17-2006, 01:07 PM
Here is the scene file for anyone interested.
Regards,
Aditya
I will recommend to put some Forces before Find Target (Wind with small scale turbulence or Vortex) ;).
Also for Taget you can use bottom part of Teapot (detach some polys) and after Find Target use Speed by Surface to flow particles by entire geometry ;)

mustan9
10-17-2006, 01:17 PM
It s an historical reconstitution of the explosion of a canon powder tower. The film is HD 1920x1080 for museum.
critics are wellcom ;)


Looks very well done.

I think the smoke clears to quickly. It has a bit of a video game feel to it.

loran
10-17-2006, 01:21 PM
Yeah it fast disapear because the shot must be short. It not a movie VFX but an explaination of what s happened. It s much more demonstrativ than realistic.

DeKo-LT
10-17-2006, 01:23 PM
Loran,
pretty cool :thumbsup:.
Explosion fireball is CG? or video footage?
I think there is some problems with post production, especially with smoke transparency(~22-30 frames) :sad:

Glacierise
10-17-2006, 02:48 PM
Yeah, it's way too fast for its scale. Get some reference on destruction of buildings - http://www.implosionworld.com/.

You'll fix the scale easily, and it will look definitely awesome!

PsychoSilence
10-21-2006, 04:31 PM
[shameless self advertisement]
http://cgarena.com/freestuff/ezine/images/oct06_issue.jpg

downloadlink:
http://cgarena.com/freestuff/ezine/index.html

from page 22 on a tutorial by me is released ;)
[/shameless self advertisement]

regards

anselm

DeKo-LT
10-21-2006, 09:54 PM
Yang Zhang publish new Particle Flow operator for creating vortex (tornado) effects controlled by a spline:
PFlow Spline Vortex v1.0 (http://www.zhangy.com/main/index.php?module=documents&JAS_Document_op=downloadFile&JAS_File_id=55) 3dsmax9, 32bit
Video (http://www.zhangy.com/ftp/Pflow/SplineVortex.avi)
More info (http://www.zhangy.com/main/index.php?module=documents&JAS_DocumentManager_op=viewDocument&JAS_Document_id=13)

Probably useful, because Speed by Icon linked to animated spline is very slowly :sad:.

To PsychoSilence ->
Bravo :thumbsup:, i too must make more tutorials for young generation ;).

SoLiTuDe
10-21-2006, 10:23 PM
very handy stuff guys -- too bad that tornado plug is only for max9 :sad:

feldy
10-22-2006, 04:16 PM
max 9 stoped being back platform with plugins again? i thought they stoped that after 4 or 5

Bobo
10-22-2006, 05:02 PM
max 9 stoped being back platform with plugins again? i thought they stoped that after 4 or 5

There are lots of misunderstandings regarding this.

Here is some history:
*Max 1 -- SDK 1
*Max 2, 2.5 --SDK 2
*Max 3 -- SDK 3
*Max 4, 5 --SDK 4
*Max 6, 7, 8 --SDK 6
*Max 9 --SDK 9

What this means is that in order to support previous builds of plug-ins requires the SDK to be frozen over a long period of time. The positive side: users typically don't have to update their plug-ins. The negative: any bugs in the SDK could not be fixed if they would break the SDK compatibility. In the early days (Max 1,2,3 and 4), the reasons for the incompatibiliy were that Microsoft was releasing new versions of the Visual C compiler almost each year, making the previous version unsupported, and that the application was growing and maturing faster, requiring huge changes to the core code:

Max 1 (1996) - first release similar in features to 3DS DOS 4 but with object-oriented architecture and volumetric lights support
Max 2 (1997) - second map channel, NURBS support, raytracing, Video Post effects with Trackview support added.
Max 3 (1999) - almost a complete core rewrite adding ParameterBlock2 support for MacroRecording and easier internal management of keyframe animation; 100 map channels support; MacroScripts on toolbars support; scripted plugins support; Scanline Renderer and Shading System improvements (AA filters and Supersamplers as plugins).

Max 4 (2001) - Editable Poly introduced; Action system revamped allowing ActionItems and MacroScripts to be used as Buttons, Menu, the new QuadMenus or Shortcuts; Function Publishing Interface support; completely new IK and constraints system...
Max 5 (2002) - Added LightTracer and Radiosity as advanced lighting plugins - Tone Operators were already added in Max 4. ParticleFlow was a subscription bonus.

Max 6 (2003) - incorporated ParticleFlow and Mental Ray.
Max 7 (2004) - evolutional changes by adding plugins on top of the same core.
Max 8 (2005) - even more evolutional changes with more plugins on top of the same core.

Max 9 (2006) - recompile for 64 bit with new MS Visual Studio 2005, DotNet support, better memory management, better reference and message system.

As you can see, we have been using the same SDK (with the same bugs in it) since around 2003 which in terms of IT technology is almost an age. Expecting Max 9 to once again support the same SDK of Max 6 would be crazy, since we would not get 64 bit support (new compiler is needed), speed improvements at core level would be impossible and many old bugs would still remain in the code for backwards compatibility reasons.

So once in a while, we will have to bite the bullet and get new plugins...

feldy
10-22-2006, 06:27 PM
lol thanks for that. i had thought max 3 came out in 98 not 99 but ehh

Bobo
10-23-2006, 03:22 AM
lol thanks for that. i had thought max 3 came out in 98 not 99 but ehh

Max 3 was supposed to come out in June 1999 but was a couple of weeks late because of C-Dilla problems and ultimately shipped with a dongle (the last version to require a dongle). It was also the last release under the Kinetix logo although technically already published by the new Discreet division.
Max 3 was the first version I beta-tested, so I remember most details very well... ;)

feldy
10-23-2006, 05:32 PM
i will leave it to you to be right. im wrong all the time im a year off ehh oh well yea i still remember that splash screen that would pop up with max 3 lol purple purple purple. i remember whe it first came out it had all the nice tabs up top with all the modifers. it was a nifty feature at the time allthough now it would just get in my way. so in max 9 is the veiwport performance any better?

PsychoSilence
10-23-2006, 06:26 PM
Yang Zhang publish new Particle Flow operator for creating vortex (tornado) effects controlled by a spline:
PFlow Spline Vortex v1.0 (http://www.zhangy.com/main/index.php?module=documents&JAS_Document_op=downloadFile&JAS_File_id=55) 3dsmax9, 32bit
Video (http://www.zhangy.com/ftp/Pflow/SplineVortex.avi)
More info (http://www.zhangy.com/main/index.php?module=documents&JAS_DocumentManager_op=viewDocument&JAS_Document_id=13)

Probably useful, because Speed by Icon linked to animated spline is very slowly :sad:.

To PsychoSilence ->
Bravo :thumbsup:, i too must make more tutorials for young generation ;).

Itīs a pitty that this operator is not suitable with max 8 :( would really give it a try but will not upgrade too soon...

BrandonD
10-24-2006, 02:22 AM
Max 3 was the first version I beta-tested, so I remember most details very well... ;)

Same here :)

Cryptite
10-24-2006, 01:37 PM
Sounds like alot of us might hold up on updating until our favorite plugin-makers get out max 9 compatible versions of their stuff...

Shame too, I'm anxious to start working in 64 bit.

oatz
10-24-2006, 02:46 PM
Sounds like alot of us might hold up on updating until our favorite plugin-makers get out max 9 compatible versions of their stuff...

Shame too, I'm anxious to start working in 64 bit.

To break from Particles for a moment, I was wondering what everyone thought of the updating plugins for max9. As far as I know, Cebas is the only one charging for an update: No functional improvements, just for the compatibility. Do you think this is ok? Orbaz, Polyboost, Sitni Satni, etc offer an upgrade for free. I understand that they had to recode some stuff, but so did everyoen else. Thoughts?

Khye

Steve Green
10-24-2006, 02:56 PM
I think it was inevitable, I'm sure previous recompiles involved more work than just recompiling the code, but the developers swallowed the cost.

It would be nice if there was an extra feature to sweeten the recompile charge, but to be honest if you're doing commercial work with Max, it's not a big deal - compared to the cost of replacing render nodes with 64 bit machines anyway.

Cheers,

Steve

mustan9
10-24-2006, 03:17 PM
Cebas is the only one charging for an update: No functional improvements, just for the compatibility. Do you think this is ok?

NO! It's not ok. That completely sucks.

feldy
10-24-2006, 09:28 PM
yea i wont be upgrading although 64 bit would be nice since im on a dual 64 bit at work

DeKo-LT
10-24-2006, 10:26 PM
New max is pretty cool, I hope that mostly plugins will be recompiled to 3dsmax9 very soon :scream:.

But i'm anxious on other thing - It is possibility that next 3dsmax version will be available ONLY for 64bits PCs? :curious:

Btw,
PFlow Spline Vortex v1.0 for Max 8 (http://www.zhangy.com/main/index.php?module=documents&JAS_DocumentManager_op=viewDocument&JAS_Document_id=13):applause:.

JHaywood
10-25-2006, 03:59 AM
New max is pretty cool, I hope that mostly plugins will be recompiled to 3dsmax9 very soon :scream:.

The only one I really care about is Afterburn, but the response to my question on their forums regarding the update for Max 9 sounded like they're too busy working on Fume to get to it right away. I really don't want to be stuck doing effects in 8 for scenes I'm creating in 9. But I guess there's not much we can do about it.

PsychoSilence
10-27-2006, 04:28 PM
Just went front page at 3D Total with my second english PFlow tutorial:

http://www.3dtotal.com/

direct link:

http://67.15.36.49/team/Tutorials_2/particle_planting/particle_01.asp


;)

regards

anselm

Glacierise
10-27-2006, 06:33 PM
Cool man, your stadium gets quite famous :D Keep rockin'!

PsychoSilence
10-28-2006, 08:08 AM
thanks bro :)

amckay
10-30-2006, 12:19 AM
great work mate! :)


btw if anyone is from new zealand? I'm going to be at the max 9 launch this week in Auckland and Wellington, come say hi.

-AM

depleteD
10-30-2006, 07:16 AM
maaaaaan, i really wish i had time to get on box 3.

damn work.

HOW DO I DEDICATE!>!>!>!>!??!?!?

PsychoSilence
10-30-2006, 07:58 AM
Hy Allan, if you read this please mail me :(

I tried to get in touch with zorby serveral times but didnīt get him on the phone...he doesnīt respond to emails. Woudl you PM or email me his phone number? I need good ppl for the next three or so projects :( (car shading, env modeling, slight animating)

regards

anselm

PS: Thanks allan for the props :)

great work mate! :)


btw if anyone is from new zealand? I'm going to be at the max 9 launch this week in Auckland and Wellington, come say hi.

-AM

visualchaosfx
10-31-2006, 06:26 AM
Sup fellas,

I thought I would try my hand at creating fire in Afterburn. Here is a test clip for you all to look at and let me know what you think.

I can already see though, that I may need to increase the speed of the particles that are being emitted and the coloring looks good but if anyone has a better color combination for me to use that would be helpful.

Fire Test (http://files.filefront.com/firetest_medmov/;6107159;;/fileinfo.html)

BrandonD
11-12-2006, 07:21 PM
Much depends on the scale of the fire you're trying to create. The larger the scale, the larger the noise frequency necessary. For example, fire from a match has very low frequency distortion and motion, while a large fuel fire will have very dynamic, high frequency details. To create a more realistic "billowing" motion it's a good rule of thumb to increase the scale of your noise slightly faster than the scale of the volumetrics. This has the effect of noise moving not just with the volume, but also through it. Very few things with particles/volumetrics should be linear interpolated. The animation of the Scale and Noise Size should both be an inverse cubic curve so that they accelerate towards their final value over the age of the particle, but gradually slow down. This has the added benefit of filling in the gaps between particles by initially scaling quickly.

mackdadd
11-25-2006, 05:05 AM
http://www.mackdadd.com/CG/hand_fire_03-6.mov (http://www.mackdadd.com/CG/hand_fire_03-6.mov)

since you guys are on the topic, here's a fire shot I did using an old tutorial of Allan's. just tweaked the settings a bit so it worked with all the movement i have going on, added smoke and sparks and some compositing things. pretty happy with the way it came out, especially for not using any plug-ins. still has a couple issues. any suggestions would be great!

PsychoSilence
11-25-2006, 08:58 AM
http://www.mackdadd.com/CG/hand_fire_03-6.mov (http://www.mackdadd.com/CG/hand_fire_03-6.mov)

since you guys are on the topic, here's a fire shot I did using an old tutorial of Allan's. just tweaked the settings a bit so it worked with all the movement i have going on, added smoke and sparks and some compositing things. pretty happy with the way it came out, especially for not using any plug-ins. still has a couple issues. any suggestions would be great!

nice work mackdadd!

maybe you should incease the amount of smaler flames. i personally think the flames should have a shorter lifetime. maybe add a drag and a speed test to delete them a bit earlier.

kind regards

anselm

visualchaosfx
11-25-2006, 11:06 AM
Wow that looks cool. Thats the kind of fire I want to create in terms of look, the fluid like look but my goal is a more realistic fire material. Something like the demo clip of a piece of wood burning over at the FumeFX site.

To get the fire to look like it was emmiting from your hand, did you model a hand and matched moved onto the live action plate?


EDIT: I guess I more concerned about getting the material to look like fire than anything. Getting the particles to act like fire isn't that hard its just the look of the fire. Make it look like the fire element was shot at the time of filming and not done in post.

mackdadd
11-25-2006, 04:58 PM
thanks for the feedback, guys... maybe i'll take another crack at modifying it a bit again.

did you model a hand and matched moved onto the live action plate

yep.

i wonder what this particle system would look like with pwrapper? hmmm....

Strob
11-26-2006, 12:19 PM
Nice start for the fire effects guys.

A good tip I can give you is to use the filter called Sapphire Glow for any comp app.

http://www.genarts.com/sapphire-ae.html

This filter would make your fire glow but with a color gradient depending on the intensity. That adds a lot of realism.

Glacierise
11-27-2006, 09:44 AM
Dudes! Check this out:

http://cravenous.com/flame_divx.avi

A candle flame sim, render time is (hold to your pants) 1 sec/frame!!! Made with only pflow&pwrapper. Very low particle count, very low polygon mesh. Obj mblur. Extremely simple setup, I tried to see what is the most simple and fast rendering way to make a decent fire. This could be taken much, much further.


P.S.: What's up with Alan these days? I saw the Marvel:Ultimate Alliance cinematics, and there is some of his signature stuff there :D If it's not him, then he taught the guys in Blur very well. And not only the particles, everything is top notch. Damn these guys are good.

PsychoSilence
11-27-2006, 12:35 PM
nice work as usual Glacierise! :)

i think the marvel work was done by superhypersam and the other pee flow guys at blur. dunno, maybe one of the guys would like comment on that... ;) i wish!

mackdadd
11-28-2006, 05:12 AM
hmmm, Glacierise, i think i might like Pete Draper's candle flame a little better than that one (in his book). although that's a pretty cool one!

loran
11-28-2006, 09:43 AM
check out my website! I ve just post some shots I ve done years ago using PF complex animation for a short movie called "VENUS PROJECT"
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/galerieperso.html
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/venusproject.jpg

PsychoSilence
11-28-2006, 10:09 AM
nice updates loran!

i will have detailed look at it when iīm home from work :)
allways liked your approaches and tutorials.

could you give some details of the venus project? iīm really interested in the shots :)

kind regards

anselm

Glacierise
11-28-2006, 11:03 AM
@Loran: Nice ones dude, but I only could open venus1 and venus3, the other links were dead :(

@mackdadd: Uh, I mentioned that this is a minimal setup, i.e. - the most simple and hence fast rendering one I can come up with, that still looks relatively nice ;)

loran
11-28-2006, 11:13 AM
Ok I have corrected the broken links on my Particle Flow quicktimes.
Thx for comments :)

PsychoSilence
11-28-2006, 12:13 PM
Ok I have corrected the broken links on my Particle Flow quicktimes.
Thx for comments :)

thx! was allready wondering about...

howībout the breakdowns? ;)

regards

anselm

FerdiWillemse
11-28-2006, 06:54 PM
Hey guys!

I have two events in Particle Flow. I've added the Pflow-Aburn operator to the first event and selected that Pflow-Aburn in my Afterburn settings. All works fine.

However, I've also added another Pflow-Aburn to my second event and selected this Pflow-Aburn in my Afterburn settings. This time Afterburn adds it to the sources list, but nothing happens. Not in preview mode nor in the render.

Can anybody help me out? :)

edit: crap, wrong topic, I had both the Afterburn and PFlow topic open :s

superhypersam
11-29-2006, 01:32 AM
hello all,


nah, Allen did not work on the Marvel stuff, we had already finished by the time he jumped on board. He worked on Bio Shock an Halo.


Marvel Ultimate Alliance was a hell of a painfull project, we put near twice the amount of time the client paid for!
The owner is a big (understatement) Marvel fan, he was looking at each shot hundreds of times, 300 % scaled up, with the gammer turned up.

Man, everytime i saw him looking at my shots I would sweat, heh.



if u gents have questions about a specific effect I can try and field em, though i was 1 of 4 FX dudes on this one.

we mainly used pflow, a lil TP, and a whole lot of reactor.


cheers

Glacierise
11-29-2006, 09:08 PM
Sam, I didn't even bother to check if these were made by you guys :) It's instantly recognizable, so damn good! I'll watch'em again, and ask some stuff! Won't let you go easily :D

Edit: here goes:

- The flames are nice. Did you use the setup with the pwrapper?
- The scene in Asgard, with the gates being demolished - is it all reactor?
- Smoke and explosions - afterburn or something newer?

The nightcrawler scene is great, too! And the intro kicks ass! But the coolest particle thing I've ever seen from blur is the effect when the weapons crash in the neverwinther nights trailer. Something about it? It seems like too many layers :D

Also, what about the mocap/keyframe ratio? I know it's not such an easy question, but how much of it was mocap? It feels like the briefings were mocap, the fights were keyframed.

That's it for now :) Thanks ;)

feldy
12-01-2006, 10:12 PM
i bet that night crawler effect was a big pain in the arse, i know from experience, allthough i wasnt asked to do it in max but i was asked to do it useing the unreal 3 game egeine. freaking hard. i know the movie version was done useing fluids. how did you guys at blur attempt this one? -Jeremy

mackdadd
12-02-2006, 05:19 AM
http://www.mackdadd.com/D&D/kate_vanish_06_final.mov (http://www.mackdadd.com/D&D/kate_vanish_06_final.mov)

here's something i did based on the nightcrawler effect. :) not the coolest thing in the world, but certainly worked for the short movie I made! I also made some video tutorials on how I did it, cuz alot of people asked.

Nazgul
12-02-2006, 03:49 PM
I don't know if you guys seen this on the front page of CGTalk... pretty impressie use of Thinking Particles!

http://www.s7067.gridserver.com/index.php?prefs=page__1___lang__en___enum__frame_motion___width__700___select__quicktime_bigfm___

Aldarion
12-02-2006, 04:41 PM
Can you show us the tutorial, mackdadd ? Seems to be a rather nice effect.

mackdadd
12-02-2006, 06:06 PM
http://www.simplycg.net/viewtopic.php?t=1753

it's posted here, with an explanation. :thumbsup:

feldy
12-02-2006, 06:21 PM
for what i was doing i turned away from doing the bampf effect for doing the blade vampire ashing setup instead its comming out pretty nice for real time particles.

MrElmo
12-06-2006, 08:19 PM
Hello everybody. Is it possible to implement a level of detail system in particle flow? I guess yes so what is the easiest way to build one?

PsychoSilence
12-06-2006, 08:27 PM
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__particle_resolution_by_camera_distance.htm

MrElmo
12-06-2006, 08:51 PM
kickass, thanks thats it!

Glacierise
12-06-2006, 10:24 PM
Nazgul: Wow, dude, really. Very artistic, beautiful and impressive. Could you make a short waklthrough of the process?

Thanks ;)

Nazgul
12-07-2006, 05:24 PM
Glacierise, I'm not the one who did it! I just think it's cool so I posted it in this thread.
Bunch of Deutch did it I believe... :) I agree impressive artistic use of particles! :)

PsychoSilence
12-08-2006, 07:14 AM
hy guys īn gals!

just did some (payed *yeah* !) research for a TV spot to be produced from january on.
the main character is going to "die" and resurrect again serveral times until a certain product sets him a final end...

therefore i started to learn Thinking Particles by heart. hereīs a first "T1000 shatter death":

http://core2core.de/spielwiese/TP_schimmel-fracture-test_1&2.wmv

(the biped is a free one from the net, nothing oblige here...)

hope you like it! C&C welcome. donīt be too harsh, itīs my first TP render :D :D

kind regards

anselm

Glacierise
12-08-2006, 07:41 AM
Heh you definitely did entertain me dude! Nice! But was it necessary to go TP for it? Maybe you needed inter-particle collisions?

PsychoSilence
12-08-2006, 08:06 AM
hey Glacierise, glad you like it :Dyes, i need a good control over the fracture and of cause along with it inter collision. And the possibility to paint or use procedural fracture maps (noise, smoke e.g.) is great too! itīs such a pitty that box#3 doesnīt support it ;-( i would have bought it the day it came out if so...

at the moment (iīm still a bloody TP beginner) i see fracture and shape collision as the big advantage over PF :(

damn thereīs something iīm really going to love about TP i feel it! but hell!!! iīll stick to PF even itīs pain in the ass sometimes :D

regards

anselm

Glacierise
12-08-2006, 08:34 AM
Hehe :) I think Box #2 will do particle collisions. Painting fractures - now that's awesome :) Patiently awaiting something Blastcode-y on the Max we are :(

I will try doing something like this with reactor fracture and particles (need it for a current project) and I'll see what I can do with it.

PsychoSilence
12-08-2006, 09:30 AM
i allready finished a project with PFlow and reactor once...not as funny as i thouhgt it was going to be... whatīs so disturbing is that thereīs always just a workaround. not a straight way to the solution. especially to wrap mesher compounds around pflows to get collision done etc...... if the flow is a bit more fancy your mashine dies even with harddrive cashed particles :(

i found a workaround in meshercompounding the flow by pinontcashing it > collapsing the mesher afterwards in frame 0 > deleting the flow > loading the piontcache on the mesher collapsed edit poly...so thereīs no flow on the renderfarm. that prevents me from error waves because the toolbox wasnīt installed on every mashine or what ever... pointcache and edit poly comes with every max :D

let us know hoe you get along! i really look foreward to see your progress and final result. i love your tutorials and demo scenes over there at orbaz ;)

i have an eye on you pal ;)

superhypersam
12-09-2006, 01:25 AM
Sam, I didn't even bother to check if these were made by you guys :) It's instantly recognizable, so damn good! I'll watch'em again, and ask some stuff! Won't let you go easily :D

Edit: here goes:

- The flames are nice. Did you use the setup with the pwrapper?
- The scene in Asgard, with the gates being demolished - is it all reactor?
- Smoke and explosions - afterburn or something newer?

The nightcrawler scene is great, too! And the intro kicks ass! But the coolest particle thing I've ever seen from blur is the effect when the weapons crash in the neverwinther nights trailer. Something about it? It seems like too many layers :D

Also, what about the mocap/keyframe ratio? I know it's not such an easy question, but how much of it was mocap? It feels like the briefings were mocap, the fights were keyframed.



The fire is a mix of the pwrapper set up and cards.

The scene in asgard is all reactor and pflow. We have a couple of dudes who realy know how to get great results out of reactor, I always thought it was rubbish, but hey...

All explosions were AB and pflow

Nightcrawler was pflow lots of lil spheres and multiple passes.

I did not work at Blur during neverwinter nights, not even sure what that is, heh.

mostly mocap, lots of clean up and extension of mocap.

PsychoSilence

nice test with TP,
I only use Tp when I need true collisions or fragmenting, great tool, but set ups take forever.

Im devoting next week to Tp, and try and figure when its best to use which tool.

love RnD time!

PsychoSilence
12-09-2006, 09:08 AM
PsychoSilence

nice test with TP,
I only use Tp when I need true collisions or fragmenting, great tool, but set ups take forever.

Im devoting next week to Tp, and try and figure when its best to use which tool.

love RnD time!

Really interesting facts about the production at blur :)

I totally agree with you about TP. The set up takes alooooot longer then in PF :( iīm allready in this process of researching when to use what and wich complications the artist might stumble across when he uses both TP and PF. Fracture, inter-collision, usage of bipeds/entire charactres as instances (not that hard to set up crowd stuff e.g.) is a definite PLUS for TP. The intuitive setup process of PFlow is a PLUS fot PF...A MINUS for TP is the lack of great tutorials like allans or brandos stuff e.g(regards to solitude, glacerise, charlyc, loran, galagast, superhypersam and deko-lt as well ;) ). PLUS for both is the connection to afterburn...

my job atm is on the one hand the research into the integration in our current pipeline at soulpix (www.soulpix.de (http://www.soulpix.de/)) and the usage of both particle packages in connection as well as a little maya fluids/dynamics. on the other hand i have to set up ready to use blackboxes for an upcoming production in january AND for often needed setups like fractures so that they can use TP even in my absence with only a little knownledge abou tweaking the desired effect. (btw all that beside my courrent assignment in munich :( 24 hours is too less time per day...*sigh* )

maybe we can exchange knowledge about both of our research processes? would be my plesure!

love RnD time!

YEEEEAAAAH, R&D is the best time in production :D far far away from the deadline and with the most freedom to go crazy :D PLUS some R&D can be done from the home office ;)

kind regards

anselm

everlite
12-10-2006, 12:32 PM
Hey guys,

I wish to buy the DVD by Allan Mckay titled Advanced Visual Effects:

http://www.allanmckay.com/index.htm

I know you can get it through Turbosquid, however i can only pay by paypal which they don't accept, does anyone know anywhere else where i can buy this DVD?

Alternatively if anyone owns this DVD and have it sat on a shelf doing very little i'd be happy to buy it from you?

Given what you guys have said I really want this DVD as you can imagine :)

Cheers - David.

PsychoSilence
12-10-2006, 02:18 PM
Hey guys,

I wish to buy the DVD by Allan Mckay titled Advanced Visual Effects:

http://www.allanmckay.com/index.htm

I know you can get it through Turbosquid, however i can only pay by paypal which they don't accept, does anyone know anywhere else where i can buy this DVD?

Alternatively if anyone owns this DVD and have it sat on a shelf doing very little i'd be happy to buy it from you?

Given what you guys have said I really want this DVD as you can imagine :)

Cheers - David.

i really feel with you concerning payment via the net :(

thatīs the only reason why i have a mastercard...

even harder is the fact that shipping sometimes is more expensive then the original product! eg 50 $ for the dvd and 75 $ for shipping to germany!

however i donīt think thereīs a way to buy it from a private person. did you get in touch with the guys at turbosquid how to solve the issue? maybe thereīs a way if you ask kindly :D

everlite
12-10-2006, 03:48 PM
Cheer, i'll send them an email, though i've had such trouble in the past where online venders wont accept paypal for reasons relating to where they are situated etc and the usual response is, watch this space.

Thanks again, i very much want to learn from this DVD so again if anyone has purchased it in the past and found they've learnt everything they can from it i'd be glad to purchased it from them, i'll pay the pull cost plus postage etc..

kind regards - Dave.

everlite
12-10-2006, 04:27 PM
I've just descovered that paypal do indeed use paypal, though you have to email them direct, problem solved :-)

Hey i'm also having a little trouble trying to create a visual effect of a swirling cloud, similar to a hurricane maybe, any suggestions would be great, please see thread:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3998217#post3998217

Cheers.

- Dave.

oatz
12-11-2006, 03:51 PM
Hi fellas. I got this going last Friday and thought you might enjoy it. Its a system using vector-based turbulence for speed, scaling exponentially with regard to distance from camera to scale down close particles and I also added a check that if particles get into local negative z of the camera they get relocated a distance away from the camera, creating a draw distance, which saves calculation time.

Enjoy
www.khye.com/max/box3/POC_turbulentRedraw.avi (http://www.khye.com/max/box3/POC_turbulentRedraw.avi)
Uses DivX

Khye

Nazgul
12-11-2006, 06:00 PM
Nice stuff Oatz! did you only use MAX to render that many particle?

oatz
12-11-2006, 06:33 PM
Nice stuff Oatz! did you only use MAX to render that many particle?
Yeah, max scanline. 100,000 particles.

mustan9
12-11-2006, 06:34 PM
That looks good for just 100,000 particles.

everlite
12-14-2006, 09:14 PM
Hi guys,

I'm creating a scene from the below concept image, the main problem that i'm having is the motion of the swirling cloud effect. I wish to use particles to create something similar to a cloud/hurricane rotating slowly but all attempts so far have failed. Can anyone suggest how i might set this up?

Hope someone can help, this is driving me nuts :)

- Dave.

http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/gb/city_destruction1b.jpg

Glacierise
12-14-2006, 09:36 PM
Been away for a while, see you guys haven't been keeping quiet :)

@Sam: thanks for the answers man, that was interesting!

@Anselm: Dude, I feel touched! And look what I've got to toss back at you - I had a particle systems lecture at my university recently, and when it came to PFlow, guess what images were projected on the wall to impress the students! :D Your spline deva, and the particle filled stadim! And I yelled: "Anselm, I know this guy" :) heheh all looked at me like at a crazy person :)

Anyway... I am away from the FX stuff for a while (though I'll post a WIP soon - char anim and FX), but just a while! I guess I'll spare some nerves from the expectation of fume... And I am starting to learn scripting, damn I feel like a loser for not being able to script pflow.

And today, I was again amazed by PFlow - made a grassy knoll in less than 5 min :D

Btw, great news - there is Glue3D (and the glorious pwrapper) for max9!

And a question - is there any improvement (with the same amount of RAM) im PFlow performance on the 64bit platform?

Thanks guys!

P.S.: Everlite, have you tried the Afterburn swirl demon? It's supposed to do that exactly.

superhypersam
12-14-2006, 09:46 PM
trying to get that effect with pure volumetrics will be extreamly time consuming, and will have a huge render overhead, mapped geometry is often your friend in these situations.

I would .
Find a high rez satelite image of a storm, and paint that up as needed, map to a piece of geometry that matched the shape of the storm, and eithier animate the map or geo to get the swirling moving clouds.


Then emit a thin afterburn (or facing particles, with a spherical gradient) mist from the surface of the geometry, to break up the edges of the storm.
render multiple passes of this with varying density and shape.

This method was used on Day after Tommorow for the huge storm shots, I think by Brandon Davis.


comp is very important in this kind of shot.

Glacierise
never have much look with the swirl deamon, always get funny sampling issues no matter how much i tweak the settings.

Anselm
yeah we should compare notes on our TP vs Pflow research

cheers

sam

everlite
12-14-2006, 09:46 PM
have you tried the Afterburn swirl demon?

Thanks, no this is new to me, though afterburn is also a little new to me. Is this a feature within afterburn?

I'm glad to see Glu3d has been updated for Max 9, I always thought that was a sweet plugin but very buggy and crashed frequently, i wonder if this will still be the case?

Cheer again - Dave.

everlite
12-14-2006, 09:52 PM
Hey thanks Sam, yeah i once saw a breakdown of the shot from Day after tomorrow and that itself inspired the cloud in this project. Wish i could find that again.

Then emit a thin afterburn (or facing particles, with a spherical gradient) mist from the surface of the geometry, to break up the edges of the storm.
This part sounds a little tricky but i'll get stuck in give it a go.

Cheers again.

- Dave.

Glacierise
12-14-2006, 10:52 PM
Nice info, Sam!

About the nightcrawler effect - why did you use a sphere particle shape, and not a facing? I think this is a general question - when there are a lot of tiny particles, what's better? Spheres are quite heavier, but can be lighted, and facing's faster...

PsychoSilence
12-15-2006, 09:38 AM
Hi guys,

I'm creating a scene from the below concept image, the main problem that i'm having is the motion of the swirling cloud effect. I wish to use particles to create something similar to a cloud/hurricane rotating slowly but all attempts so far have failed. Can anyone suggest how i might set this up?

Hope someone can help, this is driving me nuts :)

- Dave.



Hy Dave! If you run Max9 mybe this tool can help a out a little: http://maxplugins.de/max9.php?range=Particles&sort=Author Itīs called PFlow Spline Vortex. A second possibility could be the use of a PArray. the advantage is that you can use WorldSpaceModifiers on standard particle systems e.g. path deform or displace. Glacerise is totally right about the AfterBurn Swirl for the "hurricane hits the top clouds" section. Could work! But from what i know about AB in production maybe Sams approach with Mapped Geometry is the way with the quickest results. The Blur Scriptīs by Neil Blevins (soulburn3d.com) provide a SmokeThis! tool with a nice procedural smoke shader, maybe you can arrange something with it...You gotta love real footage mappen on (particle-)sprites!!! Nothing looks more real then real clouds e.g...

Galcerise: Now i feel really honoured *blushes* didnīt know that the venus image is that famous...
yeah, i stay away from pflow for a while too...have to give Thinking Particles a go and then connect the best from both worlds if possible ;) i cant tell you in detail due to NDA sh*t but this guy here is going to suffer for a commercial http://soulpix.de/content/gallery/character/schimmel3.jpg ;)

Sam: I recently try to connect PFlow and TP via the "particle to object" node. but it seems that TP exports only as much particles as i spawn but not at the right position. the forces have kinda no or not the effect that they have on the TP particles with "particle to object" turned on. :(


so far!

have a good day

kind regards

anselm

loran
12-15-2006, 12:15 PM
Just a quick test by using a twisting geometry, easy to animate, and stick particles over it. No afterburn, only 3dsmax standart shaders tricks.

watch the video test :
http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/swirlysky.jpg (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/swirlysky.avi)

max9 file (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/swirlysky.max)

oatz
12-15-2006, 02:42 PM
Just a quick test by using a twisting geometry, easy to animate, and stick particles over it. No afterburn, only 3dsmax standart shaders tricks.

That's fantastic work Loran. Why did you choose to use geometry versus a vortex spacewarp?

PsychoSilence
12-15-2006, 02:44 PM
nice one loran!

the dirty trixxx are still the best :D

fast4ry
12-16-2006, 08:13 AM
hi, who knows how create a atomic explosion with pflow like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6QW9ysEhuQ&mode=related&search=

the top part is the most hard for me,who can help?

thanks.

pd: its imposible control the size of pflow particles with afterburn??

PsychoSilence
12-16-2006, 12:57 PM
hy all!

can someone help out here with TP???

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=4075944#post4075944
i have a problem controlling and setting up data channels :sad::shrug:

kind regards

anselm

everlite
12-17-2006, 12:15 AM
Hey laurent, you absolute LEGEND!:buttrock: thats a great example to get me going. Cheers.

Anselm thank you, great ideas to get me thinking there, cheers.

Really appreciated.

- David

everlite
12-17-2006, 06:23 PM
Today i was playing around breaking things up, trying to understand how this is done, and surprisingly (for me) it aint that hard, using Carl-Mikael Lagnecrantz's Split It Up script with reactor/fracture produced some cool effects, with a few questions ...

I dropped a cylinder, and as expected it smashed when it hit the floor. What got me stumped was creating secondary breaks, ie shards breaking a second and third time.

Any suggestions on how to create added effect?

- Dave.

PsychoSilence
12-18-2006, 11:42 AM
What you describe here is EXACT the reason while i learn Thinking Particles at the moment!

The entire shattering and collision thing is way better with TP...

For secondary and third shattering i could imagine some shape collision again with smaller and more edgy shapes. The trick is to delete the parent shape (thereīs a checkbox to do so) i stripped down a smaller scene for you in a minute...nothing funky but it explains what i mean in brief ;)

http://core2core.de/spielwiese/secondary-and-third-collisi.jpg

hereīs the scene...

secondary and third fake shattering (http://www.core2core.de/spielwiese/secondary-and-third-collision.max)

kind regards

anselm

loran
12-18-2006, 01:26 PM
Reactor is probaly the best way to fracture things, with enhance details particles.
Now with Procutter you can split mesh in realistic chuncks in few seconds!
check this out! : crumble down (http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/breakable.avi)

http://laurent.renaud.free.fr/divers/cgtalk/breakable.jpg

DeKo-LT
12-19-2006, 02:43 AM
Hey, Anselm, just saw you PM in area :).

Fracture in max is often big problem due to Shape Collision missing in pflow :sad:.

For chunks i know only a few serious scripts:
Object Slicer 0.72 (http://www.scriptspot.com/download.asp?ID=2969)
SpliIt Up (http://hem.bredband.net/millman/SplitItUp.zip)
mbFracture 0.1 alpha (http://www.scriptspot.com/download.asp?ID=3446) (max9)

And we all know how to use that chunks with bobo method: ;)
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__Chunks_Basics.htm

But sometimes is too big pain to drive fragmented object (with 100k polys) on the fly...
Will be very cool to have some ideas how to fragment some object parts in realtime, at least small, low poly chunks.

I found Fragmentation sample script in MaXScript help, but it pretty slow and honestly, i have no luck to use it in practice... :sad:
Maybe some master can post better solutions to fragmentation?

And Bobo,
your "Scripting Custom Chunks - The Basics" is very cool, THANKS,
but where is Intermediate, Advanced? :)

...please, don't beat for my bad english :blush:

PsychoSilence
12-19-2006, 09:10 AM
nice one loran!

couldnīt get my hands on max9 jet :( we wouldnīt update our production pipe until some essential plugins are supported...

Deko posted some scripts i use quite often as well :)

i run:

"quick frag" by allan mckay
"Fracture v.0.4" by David Gohara
"deconstructor" by angstraum.at
"ObjSlicer 0.7" by Jefferson D. Lim
"Blow Chunks" by Haywood (Part of the Haywood tools)
"Crack Me Up" by Haywood (Part of the Haywood tools)
"Blow Stuff Up" by Haywood (Part of the Haywood tools) < this one creates a particle system after cracking up the edit poly...VERY neat!

all 7 scripts are production proven and often used by me :)...hopefully you can find all of them at scriptspot. otherwise i can zip them and email if wished so.

if you run thinking particles you can use the fracture wich ships with it...then use the export and particle to object node to get edit meshes...very handy!

@ Deko(and all others as well of cause!): how about some weekly or monthly or what ever "workaround-challenge"? eg for fracturing and blowing stuff up :D... some other forums like maxscript or modelling do them quite successfull...would be my plesure to join in as often as my scedule allows me to.

kind regards

anselm

DeKo-LT
12-19-2006, 05:05 PM
Yeah, PFlow mini challenges will be awesome :thumbsup:.
Sometimes there is no time (or no wish) to research new methods and similar challenges can force us to think more deeply :scream:.

Fragmentation Examples that I like: ;)
Trunk (http://www.cebas.de/products/images/thinking/trunk.mp4) (Thinking Particles)
SideFX_Reel_chunk (http://deko.lt/tmp/Forums/fracture_DD_houdini.mov) (Houdini)

Btw, maybe someone have good relationships with Box #3? There is some possibilities to create realtime fragmentations or shape collisions?

PsychoSilence
12-19-2006, 05:48 PM
havenīt heard of any fracture or shape collision added to box #3...the "Barter Hall" at orbaz is still not very high frequented at all...http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=370d264326480712bd7e955f8b25b335 so i canīt tell about what others got going so far :(

i donīt have the box #3 :sad: so i stick with the known techniques AND gave the mighty TP a try lately...

houdini is an off the hook particle tool no doubt (everything goes with everything)! allready seen some crazy stuff in action at blackmountain vfx!

maybe some admin starts a sub-forum for challenges. would be an honour to join hands at challenges with such artists like allan and brando(if they can find some time...), solitude, glacerise, charlyc, loran, galagast, superhypersam and you deko :D

kind regards

anselm

theotheo
12-19-2006, 08:18 PM
Deko, there's a scene file with the demo of box#3 that shows how to setup the shape collision thing, although it's not the same as in TP its more of a hack and doesn't do interparticle collision, but i guess with alittle more fiddeling it should be able fake it somehow.

Just rambling on now :)

-theo

Glacierise
12-19-2006, 11:14 PM
Yeah, Anselm's idea about the particle challenges rocks! Voting for!

PsychoSilence
12-20-2006, 08:21 AM
yeah! Glacierise! hopefully we find someone to host this (ideas for challenges, moderator stuff, etc.)

just kinda stumbled across it at cgchannel.com: http://www.cybersign.de/html/particlegen_eng.html

sounds like particle illusion in 3d...

Glacierise
12-20-2006, 09:04 AM
This particlegen looks nice, might check it out ;)

About the challenges - why not make them here at CGSociety? Will write to the mods!

SoLiTuDe
12-20-2006, 09:20 AM
I'm totally in on the whole mini challenges idea. Sounds a lot like the "weekly" maxscript challenges, but these would be way cooler, cause it's pflow, and of course would require some of that stuff which is a plus for learning. Either way, you guys'll totally rock me, but hey -- I'll try! :thumbsup:

ParticleGen looks like another fun toy. It seems like these standalone particle tools are popping up a little more often now. Fork Particles is another that's just like that from what i can tell, though i don't think fork will allow 3d geometry (but it has ageia support which is way cool). ...Or it even reminds me of Digital Fusion's particle system. It kinda seems like with each one of these standalone apps it gets better each time. Not that they're quite akin to something like pflow or tp, or aburn, but they've def got their uses.

Oh and, in case you guys didn't already know, box #3 does have a demo version that kind of serves as an edu. version also: http://www.orbaz.com/download/ not sure of all the limitations, but i'm sure it's worth d/ling to learn from to say the least. (I say that, but i haven't touched it since I d/led it yet!)

Glacierise
12-20-2006, 11:26 AM
Posted a request:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=4083525#post4083525

erilaz
12-20-2006, 12:46 PM
Sounds a lot like the "weekly" maxscript challenges, but these would be way cooler, cause it's pflow...

Hey, I resent that! :D

But yeah, a pflow challenge would be fun.

PsychoSilence
12-20-2006, 01:21 PM
[OFFTOPIC MODE]

We just had a hell lot of fun yesterday night (was my last day at the gallery of media/munich so we had a little party going on) :D
Iīm the guy with the chaosgroup shirt :D

We did punk rock karaoke, air guitar contest and air drum solo contest:

http://core2core.de/spielwiese/galerie1.jpg
http://core2core.de/spielwiese/galerie2.jpg
http://core2core.de/spielwiese/galerie3.jpg
http://core2core.de/spielwiese/galerie4.jpg
http://core2core.de/spielwiese/galerie5.jpg
http://core2core.de/spielwiese/galerie6.jpg
http://core2core.de/spielwiese/galerie7.jpg
http://core2core.de/spielwiese/galerie8.jpg

[/OFFTOPIC MODE]

kind regards

anselm

DeKo-LT
12-20-2006, 01:31 PM
Heh, here is answer why this thread is bigger than Mental Ray (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=104578&page=244&pp=15).
PFlow community rocks.... :beer:

Glacierise
12-20-2006, 02:13 PM
Heh, Anselm, you're off the hook man :)

And here's a surprise for ya - I am a guitar player! Playing metal 'n stuff (the last project was metal and blues, was that a blast!). Here's a pic of me playing in a club in Sofia last sunday:

PsychoSilence
12-20-2006, 02:20 PM
Heh, here is answer why this thread is bigger than Mental Ray (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=104578&page=244&pp=15).
PFlow community rocks.... :beer:

definetly :D hope to see all of you at siggraph! thatīs going to be a huuuuuuge hugging and drinking :D

Phibmobil
12-21-2006, 08:58 AM
FumeFX is finally out !! http://www.afterworks.com/FumeFX.asp?ID=1

Merry Christmas Fluid lovers !!! Yeeeehah !!

everlite
12-21-2006, 11:09 AM
Sh!t! christmas comes early :-)

DeKo-LT
12-21-2006, 11:25 AM
In my letter to Santa Claus, request for FumeFX price was lower :scream:.
Any chance to get trial version?

Phibmobil
12-21-2006, 11:37 AM
My boss just ordered two licences.. My office closes tomorow.. Sometimes i try to stay away from my pc over holidays.. Aah boo maybe next time ..

loran
12-21-2006, 03:28 PM
no trial for FumeFx??! shit! the only way to test this 800$ software is what all of yours know well.

Steve Green
12-21-2006, 04:03 PM
There should be a demo available soon according to Kresimir, probably January.

Cheers

Steve

PsychoSilence
12-21-2006, 05:01 PM
Heh, Anselm, you're off the hook man :)

And here's a surprise for ya - I am a guitar player! Playing metal 'n stuff (the last project was metal and blues, was that a blast!). Here's a pic of me playing in a club in Sofia last sunday:

nice guitar youīve got there! :)
be sure to post some demotape stuff if you got some!
i love to torture the turntables: http://www.core2core.de/spielwiese/the_core.avi :D iīm the left one...we spin drumīnībass and hardcore...thatīs at the tunnel club in hamburg (quite famous here in germany...)

does anyone have experience with the render times of fumefx? because aura stuff that looks good renders for ages making it inatractive for straight production scedules...somehting similar i maya renders under a minute per frame...

kind regards

everlite
12-23-2006, 10:58 AM
Hey Loran, just looking through your tutorials and was wondering if you have any future plans on doing an English version of the car tutorial? Looks good.

Cheers - Dave.

superhypersam
12-24-2006, 01:04 AM
Just got a hold of Fume, good stuff indeed!

render times are great, its the sim that takes a bit of time,
but seems more than quick enough for prodution.

On a side note, I quit Blur.

so..

They are hiring 1 or 2 new FX people, great place to work.
If your interested, let me know I will pass on your name

cheers

everlite
12-24-2006, 01:09 AM
Seems like a dream job, how come you quit?

superhypersam
12-24-2006, 01:14 AM
Hah your from Leeds!

I grew up in Bradford!

not sure if that would make us friends or enemies, heh.

I was there back when Bradford city rivaled Leeds United, not so much these days.


Blur is fantastic company, with great people. The only issue for me was the prefrence of working with film and doing more photo realistic effect vs hyper reality stuff we do at Blur.

Im off to Cafe FX/syndicate next.

everlite
12-24-2006, 01:19 AM
No shit! i'm from bradford! i just moved over to leeds a few months ago. Jesus christ someone frorm bradford working at blur(past tense), that inspires me big time :-) which area did you grow up in?

superhypersam
12-24-2006, 05:40 AM
Nice! so we can be friends after all.

I grew up in Undercliff, went to Undercliff middle school, and Hansen for high school.
Left Bradford 14 years ago, lived in LA for 14, damn does that make me an American?


to get back on topic

I have bin playing with Krakatao now for a few weeks, and Fume for a couple of days,

and I have to say u guys are in for a treat.

With the addition of these tools we can damn near do any FX task that they throw at us.

Glacierise
12-24-2006, 07:18 AM
@PsychoSilence: Yeah, I'm kind of working on a demo tape now ;)

On topic: Guys, you might wanna check this out, it's kind of cool :)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=4090257#post4090257

everlite
12-24-2006, 12:10 PM
Hey Sam i lived most of my life in Fagley, though i went to Tong High (not the greatest educational experience :-) Once a Brafordian always a Bradfordian i guess, though you wouldn't recongnise the place now, it's changed somewhat in the last ten years.
Well, good luck with your move, hope it all goes well for you.

- Dave.

PsychoSilence
12-24-2006, 01:07 PM
On a side note, I quit Blur.

so..

They are hiring 1 or 2 new FX people, great place to work.
If your interested, let me know I will pass on your name

cheers

definetly interested!!! and willing to move and work to where ever i need to ;)




Merry Merry Christmas to all of you!
And of cause a sucessful business year in 2007


kind regards

anselm

Aldarion
12-24-2006, 01:22 PM
Merry Christmas to all of you and thanks for bringing the world of particles to us, mere readers of 250 pages of particle stuff. GJ !

SoLiTuDe
12-24-2006, 05:40 PM
Just got a hold of Fume, good stuff indeed!

render times are great, its the sim that takes a bit of time,
but seems more than quick enough for prodution.

On a side note, I quit Blur.

so..

They are hiring 1 or 2 new FX people, great place to work.
If your interested, let me know I will pass on your name

cheers

Me 2! ...Would love to chat with you about it... next time you hop on AIM again. :)

Nazgul
12-24-2006, 09:46 PM
Merry Merry Christmas to all of you!
And of cause a sucessful business year in 2007


kind regards

anselm

Thanks! Merry Christmas to all you Particle pushers around the world! 2007 is going to be ripping for all of us with the new tools coming out! Wahoo! ;)
cheers,
Naz

papayadigital
12-26-2006, 11:40 AM
HI guys,
check this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4yiQ3I5Zsg
I did a test for a commercial fx shot ,
and ...hey allan,your Tutorial DVDs are awesome

papayadigital
12-26-2006, 11:51 AM
HI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4yiQ3I5Zsg

Glacierise
12-26-2006, 06:39 PM
Nice start, and you can take it much further ;)

SoLiTuDe
12-28-2006, 06:40 AM
i love to torture the turntables: http://www.core2core.de/spielwiese/the_core.avi :D iīm the left one...we spin drumīnībass and hardcore...thatīs at the tunnel club in hamburg (quite famous here in germany...)
kind regards


Ha! Good stuff! :buttrock:Check out my avatar... I'm more of a breaks kind of a guy (at least for now)... love d&b, but i'm picky about the "hardcore" stuff :D

DeKo-LT
12-28-2006, 07:49 AM
Guys, do you see next FX Wars Challenge topic - Disintegration (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=443044)
:scream: (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=443044)

loran
12-28-2006, 09:37 AM
Hey Loran, just looking through your tutorials and was wondering if you have any future plans on doing an English version of the car tutorial? Looks good.


I will... I have to finish that damn website!

Glacierise
12-28-2006, 03:25 PM
Guys, check this out - a frame from an animation I make:

http://cravenous.com/fx_letters.jpg

everlite
12-28-2006, 06:19 PM
I will... I have to finish that damn website!

Cheers Loran,

Post up a link when you get time. I never thought turning a car was such a pain until i tried. My attempts look ...odd.

Cheers - Dave.

PsychoSilence
12-29-2006, 10:15 AM
Guys, do you see next FX Wars Challenge topic - Disintegration (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=443044)
:scream: (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=443044)

i have sparetime the entire january...interested in a team play? something bladeII-ish come to my mind instantly when i remember your creature disintegration (cg education from your site)
.

DeKo-LT
12-30-2006, 08:39 PM
i have sparetime the entire january...interested in a team play? something bladeII-ish come to my mind instantly when i remember your creature disintegration (cg education from your site)
.
Prepare to roll up one's sleeves... :scream:
Check PM ;)

papayadigital
12-31-2006, 10:11 AM
Hi guys!
This is my blog:http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1262424411;
I'm a game set designer,but VFX is my life.
Here is my lastest test:http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/1gjZvTvOAzQ/

and Happy new year :applause: !!
■■■◣ ◢■■◣ ◢■■◣ ■■■■
   ■ ■  ■ ■  ■ ■ ■
◢■■◤ ■  ■ ■  ■  ■
■    ■  ■ ■  ■   ■
◥■■■ ◥■■◤ ◥■■◤ ■
 ★☆★  ★☆★  ★☆★  ★☆★
★ 新 ★★ 年 ★★ 快 ★★ 樂 ★
 ★☆★  ★☆★  ★☆★  ★☆★
╭╧╮╭╧╮╭╧╮╭╧╮╭╧╮ ╭╧╮
║元│║旦│║快│║樂│║喲│ ║!│
╘∞╛╘∞╛╘∞╛╘∞╛╘∞╛ ╘∞╛

PsychoSilence
12-31-2006, 11:36 AM
happy new year to all you PFlow heroes!

hope to read from you in 2007 as heavy as in ī06 ;)

kind regards

anselm

ArtiZta
01-01-2007, 02:01 AM
Happy New Year from tropical Indonesia,
Wish you all, all the best in 2007!!

cheers

:)

everlite
01-13-2007, 06:41 PM
Hey guys,

Just having a little trouble with a scene running like a 2 ton beagle!

Here's the scene in question, if you have a moment spare please download and take a poke around ... by the time you hit frame 20 max pretty much dies.

http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/gb/city_particles_test1.max

I'm a little new to particles so don't kick my arss if it's an obvious cause :-)

here's my specs: amd althlon 64 pro 3500+, 2.21 GHz, 2 GB RAM, Nvidia Geforce 7800 GTX, do i need to upgrade?

The particles are debris/dust/general street crap coming up from the ground and hitting the buildings, then break up and continue into a vortex.

Any suggestions???

Cheers - Dave.

plejboy
01-13-2007, 07:06 PM
Hey Dave.
Had a look at your file. I would suggest you replace the Udeflector with simple deflectors.
Udeflectors are very slow. Just rough up the city with deflectors and you should be fine. Another thing could be to look into the PFlow box 3 for the nice little Cache Disk Operator. I have not tried the cache disk but ive read about it and people seem to like it :)

Anyway, hope it helps